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This bill imposes additional penalties upon an individual who is convicted of a federal offense related to conduct during the course of a protest (e.g., rioting). First, in addition to the penalty for the conviction, the individual must pay restitution to cover the cost of federal policing during the protest. Second, the individual is ineligible for pandemic unemployment assistance.

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bill impose additional penalty individual convict federal offense relate conduct course protest eg rioting addition penalty conviction individual pay restitution cover cost federal policing protest second individual ineligible pandemic unemployment assistance

This bill prohibits aliens who are not lawfully present in the United States from receiving 2021 recovery rebates. It also modifies identification requirements for nonimmigrant workers.

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bill prohibit alien lawfully present united states receive recovery rebate modify identification requirement nonimmigrant worker

This bill rescinds unobligated amounts appropriated to the Internal Revenue Service by the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 for enforcement activities and operations support.

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bill rescind unobligated amount appropriate internal revenue service inflation reduction act enforcement activity operation support

This bill requires agencies, when publishing a final major rule and biennially thereafter, to assess the impact of the rule on regulated entities, determine how the actual benefits and costs of the rule have varied from those anticipated, and assess the effectiveness of the rule at meeting its regulatory objectives. If an agency determines that the cost to regulated entities has exceeded the anticipated cost, then the agency must assess and report whether the rule is meeting its objectives and whether the rule is necessary. Further, in such case, the agency must reopen the public comment period for 60 days and consider modifications or alternatives to the rule. The bill defines a major rule as a rule likely to cause (1) an annual effect on the economy of $100 million or more; (2) a major increase in costs or prices; or (3) significant adverse effects on competition, employment, investment, productivity, innovation, or the ability of U.S.-based enterprises to compete with foreign-based enterprises.

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bill require agency publish final major rule biennially assess impact rule regulate entity determine actual benefit cost rule vary anticipate assess effectiveness rule meet regulatory objective agency determine cost regulate entity exceed anticipated cost agency assess report rule meet objective rule necessary case agency reopen public comment period day consider modification alternative rule bill define major rule rule likely cause annual effect economy million major increase cost price significant adverse effect competition employment investment productivity innovation ability usbased enterprise compete foreignbase enterprise

This bill prohibits the use of any funds to take action providing for the United States to become a party to the Paris Agreement.

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bill prohibit use fund action provide united states party paris agreement

Speeches, etc. Mrs. Thatcher May I ask Edward Shortthe Leader of the House whether he will state the business for next week? The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Edward Short) Yes, Sir. The business for next week will be as follows: Monday 9th February—Consideration of Private Members' motions, until seven o'clock. Afterwards, motion on the Select Committee on Abortion. Motions relating to Community Land Orders and the Landlord and Tenant Regulations. Tuesday 10th February—Second Reading of the Dock Work Regulation Bill. Wednesday 11th February—Supply [8th Allotted Day]: There will be a debate on the Government's guidelines on State investment in the motor industry, which will arise on a motion to reduce the salary of the Secretary of State for Industry. At seven o'clock, the Chairman of Ways and Means has named opposed Private Business for consideration. Thursday 12th February—Second Reading of the Water Charges Bill. Motion on EEC Documents on Agriculture. Friday 13th February—Private Members' Bills. Monday 16th February—Second Reading of the Fair Employment (Northern Ireland) Bill [Lords] and of the Road Traffic (Drivers' Ages and Hours of Work) Bill [Lords]. Mrs. Thatcher As I understand from Treasury answers this afternoon that we are to have a statement from Denis Healeythe Chancellor of the Exchequer on Thursday but that the Budget is not to be until 6th April, can the Leader of the House assure us that we shall have one or two days to debate economic and public expenditure matters before the Budget? As fishing matters are now becoming very urgent, can he promise us a day soon to debate this very serious topic? Mr. Short On the last point, I said last week that I would bear this in mind and see whether anything could be done. In my reply to the first question from the right hon. Lady last week, I said that in view of the date of the White Paper on expenditure and the date of the Budget, which has been announced, it would be reasonable to have a debate on public expenditure between the two. We missed that opportunity last year, but the gap between the two is longer this time. Mr. James Johnson May I ask my right hon. Friend to give favourable consideration to the request last week by the Leader of the Opposition for a fisheries debate? Is he aware that at least three completely new and mortal dangers are facing the industry compared with the situation which existed the last time there was an Icelandic dispute? There is the financial crisis, the question of the 200-mile limit, and, even more important, the common fisheries policy. Mr. Short I note my hon. Friend's concern about this issue, which is shared by many hon. Members, and I shall bear the point in mind. Of course, by far the greater proportion of the days available for general debate are in the hands of the Opposition, and it would be an appropriate subject for a Supply Day debate. Mr. Cyril Smith Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the exchanges that have been taking place in Private Business during the last two days between myself and the Government Deputy Chief Whip concerning the appointment of Members to the Committee of Selection? Is he also aware that those exchanges are likely to continue unless we and the other minor opposition parties are given the opportunity to have a seat on that Committee? The Committee directly affects [column 1419]each of our members. Will the Leader of the House make a statement about this and possibly consider having a debate on the matter next week—unless, that is, he can give us an assurance that the Government will suggest that the membership of the Committee might be increased? Mr. Short I have taken a very great interest in the exchanges that have gone on, but this, of course, is Private Business which comes up at the beginning of business each day. I shall continue to watch the position with interest. Mr. Greville Janner When does my right hon. Friend intend to provide the promised time to introduce the Bill to make compulsory the wearing of seat belts? Mr. Short I assure my hon. and learned Friend that I have not forgotten the Bill. Indeed, I would not be allowed to. When there is a gap in the time-table I shall put it down again for Second Reading. Mr. Maurice Macmillan The Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs appears to regard as irrelevant for discussion by the Council of European Ministers such matters as Soviet breaches of the Helsinki Agreement, Soviet intervention in Angola and the potential threat to the security of supply of our raw materials. Will the Leader of the House therefore give some indication that the Government recognise the seriousness of these matters by arranging for an early debate on them, and particularly that the debate should take place before the Budget? In that way they might recognise the economic as well as the political importance of what is going on. Mr. Short I replied to a number of questions on this subject last week. I pointed out that the Leader of the Opposition had generated the controversy in this respect and—— Mr. Macmillan That is not true. Mr. Short I suggest therefore that she uses one of her days for such a debate. There is a debate on Monday on a Private Member's motion which I suppose will go until seven o'clock. It is on foreign policy and morality, and it would seem to be the appropriate [column 1420]occasion on which to raise questions of this kind. Mr. Henderson Does the Leader of the House recall that three weeks ago in replying to a question I put to him he promised to arrange for a debate on the steel industry as soon as possible? In view of the developments since then which affect the livelihood of people in the industry, will he give some indication when “as soon as possible” will be? Mr. Short The hon. Gentleman never allows me to forget what I say. I said that I would bear this matter in mind. A borrowing powers Bill will be coming along at some time and that will be the occasion for a debate on the steel industry. I note the concern of many hon. Members on this matter, and I shall bear that in mind. Mr. Kinnock When shall we have a chance soon to debate and make a final decision about radio broadcasting of the proceedings of the House? Mr. Short I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend that the report will be coming from the Services Committee in the very near future. I shall certainly put it on the Order Paper and arrange a short debate at the earliest possible moment. Mr. John Davies Has the right hon. Gentleman noticed the report of the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs yesterday on the subject of future business for the Council of Ministers? If he has, he will have noticed the extraordinary concentration of subjects dealing with energy, all of which are of fundamental importance. As there has not been one of the six promised days this Session for a debate on European matters, would it not be appropriate to devote one such day to consideration of energy matters as they affect the Common Market? Mr. Short I realise the importance of this subject and I shall do the best I can about it. The House will spend the greater part of one day next week dealing with EEC matters. This aspect of our business was discussed on Monday in the debate on procedure. It gives rise to complications. I have noticed the right hon. Gentleman's motion on the Order Paper. [That this House deplores the inadequacy of consideration of important EEC [column 1421]measures, both in Standing Committee and on the Floor of the House; and calls upon the Government, as a matter of urgency, to improve the timing, form and nature of such debates.] It is easy to put such a motion down, but much more difficult to find time to discuss such matters. He has tabled a very critical motion, but he has made no suggestion about how to find the additional time. This was one of the purposes of Monday's debate. I hope that it will be one of the matters dealt with by the Committee of Inquiry into Procedure and Practice. The right hon. Gentleman has raised an important question and I shall do the best I can to arrange a debate. Mr. Heffer The House quite rightly has found time to debate devolution and economic problems in Scotland and Wales, even though there are Committees which could deal with these matters. We have a Standing Committee on Regional Affairs which tends to lead to subjects being displaced from the Floor of the House. Will my right hon. Friend consider having a debate at the earliest possible moment on regional matters, economic and otherwise, in the North and the North-West? These regions are suffering very high levels of unemployment. Mr. Short I cannot promise such a debate in the very near future. It is generally agreed that the Regional Committee has permitted a great many more regional debates to take place. I believe that it debated the North-West only recently—— Mr. Heffer It is a talking shop. Mr. Short If the Committee is a talking shop, the House is, too. Mr. Kershaw Has the right hon. Gentleman's attention been drawn to Early-Day Motion No. 69 standing in the name of the hon. Member for Edinburgh, Central (Mr. Cook) to which an amendment has been tabled? [That this House regrets the decision of Her Majesty's Government to increase fees for overseas students attending British universities and colleges; recognises that this will provide only a derisory increase in net revenue, but will cause serious hardship, particularly to students from developing countries and students in mid-[column 1422]course; notes that other European countries admit a higher number of overseas students and yet charge them no discriminatory tuition fees; and calls upon Her Majesty's Government to take positive action to end the discrimination against overseas students.] The motion deals with fees paid by overseas students. In view of the deep differences which exist on this important matter, will the right hon. Gentleman give time for a debate before long? Mr. Short I cannot offer time for a debate but, as I have said, I am proposing to have a debate on the White Paper on Public Expenditure between publication of the White Paper and the Budget. That would be an appropriate occasion on which to raise this matter. Mr. Hardy Does my right hon. Friend recall that last Friday a motion standing in my name on the subject of steel was not reached, largely because of repetitive contributions by Opposition Members—and that did not include the hon. Member for Aberdeenshire, East (Mr. Henderson)? Many of my hon. Friends are extremely concerned about the steel industry. May we have an assurance that the borrowing powers Bill will be before the House within a reasonable time? Mr. Short I realise the importance that my hon. Friend attaches to this matter. I have discussed it with him. I cannot say when the Bill will appear. It will certainly be before Easter. I shall do my best to make it as soon as possible so that we may have a debate on this important subject. Mr. Peyton I welcome the right hon. Gentleman's forthcoming words to my right hon. Friend the Member for Knutsford (Mr. Davies) at the conclusion of his remarks in reply to the question about a European debate. May I take him back to the question of debates on economic affairs? Am I to understand that there is to be a debate first on the Chancellor of the Exchequer's statement which is expected on Thursday? Secondly, may we have a clear assurance that we shall have a debate on public expenditure at a decent interval before the Budget? Mr. Short I have already answered the right hon. Gentleman's last question [column 1423]twice this afternoon. On his first point, I cannot offer a debate next week on the Chancellor's package. I understand that it will not require any parliamentary action. The debate on public expenditure will not be long after that, and I would have thought that it was therefore an opportunity to debate its proposals. Mr. Peyton Will the right hon. Gentleman take note that we should like to await the Chancellor's statement and then we should almost certainly want a debate on the subject? Mr. Short That is fair enough. I think that the sensible thing to do is to await the Chancellor's statement. The right hon. Gentleman has a great many days in his pocket as well. Perhaps if we provide one day for public expenditure, he could also provide one. Mr. Geraint Howells Will the Leader of the House consider providing time for a debate on agriculture, in view of the latest estimates released by the Meat and Livestock Commission, which indicate that we shall be producing 17 per cent. less beef in this country in 1976 and 7 per cent. less lamb? Mr. Short There is to be a debate on agriculture and EEC matters next week. Dr. Edmund Marshall Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the Written Answer given to me on 3rd February by his right hon. Friend the Minister for Planning and Local Government, who expressed the hope that the Yorkshire and Humberside Regional Strategy Review would be debated by the Standing Committee on Regional Affairs? Will the Leader of the House ensure that this debate is held soon? Mr. Short I certainly realise the need to have a debate on this matter, and I shall arrange a debate on it. However, I think that we want a little time to allow hon. Members to study the Report rather more carefully. Mr. Geoffrey Finsberg Will the Leader of the House arrange to put down a motion next week to set up a Select Committee on Procedure, bearing in mind what he said in the debate on Monday—that if there were matters requiring attention he would set up a Committee—[column 1424]and the reference that I have made to him, which your predecessor in the Chair, Mr. Speaker, said was a suitable matter to go to a Select Committee on Procedure? Mr. Short The hon. Gentleman has had correspondence with me about this matter. I shall certainly look at it. If there are matters to be referred to a Select Committee on Procedure, I shall propose setting up such a Committee. Mr. Madden Will my right hon. Friend say when the Secretary of State for Trade will make his promised statement on further measures designed to reduce the dumping of cheap foreign goods in Britain? Mr. Short No, Sir, but my right hon. Friend is on the Government Front Bench at present, and no doubt he has heard what my hon. Friend said on this occasion and last week and, I think, the previous week, too. Mr. Boscawen As the Government do not seem to be aware of the particularly grievous situation facing the construction and building industry in the South-West, will the Leader of the House allow a debate on this industry on the Floor of the House as early as possible? Mr. Short No, Sir. I cannot offer time in the near future, but this again would be a very suitable subject for any of the days that the Opposition have for general debates. Mr. Rose In view of the urgent problems highlighted by the Runnymede Trust and others, will my right hon. Friend say when the forthcoming Race Relations Bill will be introduced into the House, and will he give some sort of time scale for the fusion of the Race Relations Board with the Equal Opportunities Commission? Mr. Short That is part of the new arrangement under the Bill, but certainly the Bill will be introduced before Easter. I am sorry that I cannot give the precise date, but it will be before Easter. Mr. Paul Dean Does the Leader of the House recollect that the House passed a resolution last Friday calling for measures to alleviate the burdens on the self-employed and the small business? May I ask him on what day next week we can [column 1425]expect a statement from the Government with a view to implementing that resolution of the House? Mr. Short I have announced that there will be a statement on Thursday, when we shall announce our measures to alleviate the burdens on the unemployed. Certainly the Chancellor of the Exchequer will bear in mind the resolution that was passed last week. Mr. Lipton Will the House be given an opportunity of discussing the Report of the Services Committee which recommends the removal of Members' secretaries who are at present working in Westminster Hall to the Interview Floor, where they will never see daylight during working hours? Mr. Short As I understand it, this was approved a very long time ago, and the work is in hand now. Mr. Tim Renton The Lord President will be aware that in the debate on procedure on Monday a number of comments were passed on the public service. Will the Lord President find time for a debate in the House on the Civil Service—on its growth, its pay and pensions, and its relationship with Ministers? Mr. Short I cannot promise any time for that, but I notice that a Select Committee is about to carry out a study of the Civil Service. Mr. Spriggs Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Regional Affairs Committee, to which he referred earlier, is not attended by chief Ministers and that this is one of the main reasons why many of us feel that it is a waste of time to attend that Committee? Mr. Short These are Committees to which any Member of the House can go. The whole membership of the House can go along, and the debate is always answered by a Minister. However, if there are special difficulties about that, perhaps my hon. Friend will talk to me, and I shall be happy to see what I can do. Mr. Grylls Will the Leader of the House arrange for the Secretary of State for Employment to make a statement on the Linwood settlement, because many hon. Members and people outside the House are curious to know how that is alleged to fall within the £6 limit? Mr. Short I shall certainly pass on to my right hon. Friend what the hon. Gentleman has said. Mr. Torney Is my right hon. Friend aware of the many reports in the Press and the report on the radio this morning about the dumping of over 10,000 men's suits into this country from East Germany, at the ridiculous rate of £4.80 each? Is he aware of the effect on employment in West Yorkshire in the clothing and textile industries? Will he arrange an emergency debate on this matter next week? Mr. Short I cannot offer a debate about it, but my right hon. Friend has certainly seen these reports and he is investigating the matter urgently. Mr. Lawson Will the Lord President try to persuade his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to publish the cash limits for public expenditure in 1976–77 before we have the debate which he has promised on the public expenditure White Paper, so that that debate can be a fully informed debate? Mr. Short I think that the debate will be certainly a fully-informed debate. When the hon. Gentleman reads the White Paper on public expenditure he will be very fully informed. Sir Frederic Bennett The right hon. Gentleman will have heard the earlier exchanges about the Falkland Islands. I wonder whether next week, on a topic that was not touched upon, he could arrange for a very short statement to be made about the completion of a genuinely international airport there, capable of taking international traffic, which would do a great deal to cool the situation and would be a method of maintaining communications other than by sea. One could think of no quicker way to establish a better situation. May we have a short statement saying how close we are to establishing there a genuinely international airport? Mr. Short I know that the hon. Gentleman has been interested in this matter for a long time. I shall pass on to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what he has said. Sir George Young When is it proposed to re-establish the Select Committee on Violence in Marriage? Mr. Short I am looking at this matter at present and at the possibility of making it rather wider, but certainly I hope to have something to say about it in the very near future. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mrs thatcher ask edward shortthe leader house state business week lord president council leader house commons mr edward short yes sir business week follow monday february consideration private member motion seven oclock motion select committee abortion motion relate community land order landlord tenant regulation tuesday february second reading dock work regulation bill wednesday february supply allotted day debate government guideline state investment motor industry arise motion reduce salary secretary state industry seven oclock chairman way mean name oppose private business consideration thursday february second reading water charge bill motion eec document agriculture friday february private member bill monday february second reading fair employment northern ireland bill lords road traffic driver age hour work bill lord mrs thatcher understand treasury answer afternoon statement denis healeythe chancellor exchequer thursday budget april leader house assure shall day debate economic public expenditure matter budget fishing matter urgent promise day soon debate topic mr short point say week bear mind reply question right hon lady week say view date white paper expenditure date budget announce reasonable debate public expenditure miss opportunity year gap long time mr james johnson ask right hon friend favourable consideration request week leader opposition fishery debate aware completely new mortal danger face industry compare situation exist time icelandic dispute financial crisis question limit important common fishery policy mr short note hon friend concern issue share hon member shall bear point mind course far great proportion day available general debate hand opposition appropriate subject supply day debate mr cyril smith right hon gentleman aware exchange take place private business day government deputy chief whip concern appointment member committee selection aware exchange likely continue minor opposition party give opportunity seat committee committee directly affect column member leader house statement possibly consider have debate matter week assurance government suggest membership committee increase mr short take great interest exchange go course private business come beginning business day shall continue watch position interest mr greville janner right hon friend intend provide promise time introduce bill compulsory wearing seat belt mr short assure hon learn friend forget bill allow gap timetable shall second read mr maurice macmillan minister state foreign commonwealth affair appear regard irrelevant discussion council european minister matter soviet breach helsinki agreement soviet intervention angola potential threat security supply raw material leader house indication government recognise seriousness matter arrange early debate particularly debate place budget way recognise economic political importance go mr short reply number question subject week point leader opposition generate controversy respect mr macmillan true mr short suggest use day debate debate monday private member motion suppose seven oclock foreign policy morality appropriate column raise question kind mr henderson leader house recall week ago reply question promise arrange debate steel industry soon possible view development affect livelihood people industry indication soon possible mr short hon gentleman allow forget say bear matter mind borrowing power bill come time occasion debate steel industry note concern hon member matter shall bear mind mr kinnock shall chance soon debate final decision radio broadcasting proceeding house mr short pleased tell hon friend report come service committee near future shall certainly order paper arrange short debate early possible moment mr john davy right hon gentleman notice report minister state foreign commonwealth affair yesterday subject future business council minister notice extraordinary concentration subject deal energy fundamental importance promise day session debate european matter appropriate devote day consideration energy matter affect common market mr short realise importance subject shall good house spend great day week deal eec matter aspect business discuss monday debate procedure give rise complication notice right hon gentleman motion order paper house deplore inadequacy consideration important eec column standing committee floor house call government matter urgency improve timing form nature debate easy motion difficult find time discuss matter table critical motion suggestion find additional time purpose monday debate hope matter deal committee inquiry procedure practice right hon gentleman raise important question shall good arrange debate mr heffer house rightly find time debate devolution economic problem scotland wale committee deal matter standing committee regional affair tend lead subject displace floor house right hon friend consider have debate early possible moment regional matter economic north northwest region suffer high level unemployment mr short promise debate near future generally agree regional committee permit great regional debate place believe debate northwest recently mr heffer talk shop mr short committee talk shop house mr kershaw right hon gentleman attention draw earlyday motion stand hon member edinburgh central mr cook amendment table house regret decision majestys government increase fee overseas student attend british university college recognise provide derisory increase net revenue cause hardship particularly student develop country student midcolumn note european country admit high number overseas student charge discriminatory tuition fee call majestys government positive action end discrimination overseas student motion deal fee pay overseas student view deep difference exist important matter right hon gentleman time debate long mr short offer time debate say propose debate white paper public expenditure publication white paper budget appropriate occasion raise matter mr hardy right hon friend recall friday motion stand subject steel reach largely repetitive contribution opposition member include hon member aberdeenshire east mr henderson hon friend extremely concerned steel industry assurance borrow power bill house reasonable time mr short realise importance hon friend attach matter discuss bill appear certainly easter shall good soon possible debate important subject mr peyton welcome right hon gentleman forthcoming word right hon friend member knutsford mr davy conclusion remark reply question european debate question debate economic affair understand debate chancellor exchequer statement expect thursday secondly clear assurance shall debate public expenditure decent interval budget mr short answer right hon gentleman question column afternoon point offer debate week chancellor package understand require parliamentary action debate public expenditure long think opportunity debate proposal mr peyton right hon gentleman note like await chancellor statement certainly want debate subject mr short fair think sensible thing await chancellor statement right hon gentleman great day pocket provide day public expenditure provide mr geraint howell leader house consider provide time debate agriculture view late estimate release meat livestock commission indicate shall produce cent beef country cent lamb mr short debate agriculture eec matter week dr edmund marshall right hon friend bear mind write answer give february right hon friend minister planning local government express hope yorkshire humberside regional strategy review debate standing committee regional affair leader house ensure debate hold soon mr short certainly realise need debate matter shall arrange debate think want little time allow hon member study report carefully mr geoffrey finsberg leader house arrange motion week set select committee procedure bearing mind say debate monday matter require attention set committee column reference predecessor chair mr speaker say suitable matter select committee procedure mr short hon gentleman correspondence matter shall certainly look matter refer select committee procedure shall propose set committee mr madden right hon friend secretary state trade promise statement measure design reduce dumping cheap foreign good britain mr short sir right hon friend government bench present doubt hear hon friend say occasion week think previous week mr boscawen government aware particularly grievous situation face construction building industry southwest leader house allow debate industry floor house early possible mr short sir offer time near future suitable subject day opposition general debate mr rise view urgent problem highlight runnymede trust right hon friend forthcoming race relation bill introduce house sort time scale fusion race relation board equal opportunity commission mr short new arrangement bill certainly bill introduce easter sorry precise date easter mr paul dean leader house recollect house pass resolution friday call measure alleviate burden selfemployed small business ask day week column statement government view implement resolution house mr short announce statement thursday shall announce measure alleviate burden unemployed certainly chancellor exchequer bear mind resolution pass week mr lipton house give opportunity discuss report service committee recommend removal member secretary present work westminster hall interview floor daylight work hour mr short understand approve long time ago work hand mr tim renton lord president aware debate procedure monday number comment pass public service lord president find time debate house civil service growth pay pension relationship minister mr short promise time notice select committee carry study civil service mr spriggs right hon friend aware regional affairs committee refer early attend chief minister main reason feel waste time attend committee mr short committee member house membership house debate answer minister special difficulty hon friend talk shall happy mr gryll leader house arrange secretary state employment statement linwood settlement hon member people outside house curious know allege fall limit mr short shall certainly pass right hon friend hon gentleman say mr torney right hon friend aware report press report radio morning dumping men suit country east germany ridiculous rate aware effect employment west yorkshire clothing textile industry arrange emergency debate matter week mr short offer debate right hon friend certainly see report investigate matter urgently mr lawson lord president try persuade right hon friend chancellor exchequer publish cash limit public expenditure debate promise public expenditure white paper debate fully informed debate mr short think debate certainly fullyinformed debate hon gentleman read white paper public expenditure fully inform sir frederic bennett right hon gentleman hear early exchange falkland island wonder week topic touch arrange short statement completion genuinely international airport capable take international traffic great deal cool situation method maintain communication sea think quick way establish well situation short statement say close establish genuinely international airport mr short know hon gentleman interested matter long time shall pass right hon friend secretary state foreign commonwealth affair say sir george young propose reestablish select committee violence marriage mr short look matter present possibility make wider certainly hope near future copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

(Followed by the letter McCarthy wrote to Truman) Wisconsin Republican Joseph R. McCarthy first won election to the Senate in 1946 during a campaign marked by much anticommunist Red-baiting. Partially in response to Republican Party victories, President Harry S. Truman tried to demonstrate his own concern about the threat of Communism by setting up a loyalty program for federal employees. He also asked the Justice Department to compile an official list of 78 subversive organizations. As the midterm election year got underway, former State Department official Alger Hiss, suspected of espionage, was convicted of perjury. McCarthy, in a speech at Wheeling, West Virginia, mounted an attack on Truman’s foreign policy agenda by charging that the State Department and its Secretary, Dean Acheson, harbored “traitorous” Communists. There is some dispute about the number of Communists McCarthy claimed to have known about. Though advance copies of this speech distributed to the press record the number as 205, McCarthy quickly revised this claim. Both in a letter he wrote to President Truman the next day and in an “official” transcript of the speech that McCarthy submitted to the Congressional Record ten days later he uses the number 57. Although McCarthy displayed this list of names both in Wheeling and then later on the Senate floor, he never made the list public. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ladies and gentlemen, tonight as we celebrate the one hundred forty-first birthday of one of the greatest men in American history, I would like to be able to talk about what a glorious day today is in the history of the world. As we celebrate the birth of this man who with his whole heart and soul hated war, I would like to be able to speak of peace in our time—of war being outlawed—and of world-wide disarmament. These would be truly appropriate things to be able to mention as we celebrate the birthday of Abraham Lincoln. Five years after a world war has been won, men’s hearts should anticipate a long peace—and men’s minds should be free from the heavy weight that comes with war. But this is not such a period—for this is not a period of peace. This is a time of “the cold war.” This is a time when all the world is split into two vast, increasingly hostile armed camps—a time of a great armament race. Today we can almost physically hear the mutterings and rumblings of an invigorated god of war. You can see it, feel it, and hear it all the way from the Indochina hills, from the shores of Formosa, right over into the very heart of Europe itself. The one encouraging thing is that the “mad moment” has not yet arrived for the firing of the gun or the exploding of the bomb which will set civilization about the final task of destroying itself. There is still a hope for peace if we finally decide that no longer can we safely blind our eyes and close our ears to those facts which are shaping up more and more clearly . . . and that is that we are now engaged in a show-down fight . . . not the usual war between nations for land areas or other material gains, but a war between two diametrically opposed ideologies. The great difference between our western Christian world and the atheistic Communist world is not political, gentlemen, it is moral. For instance, the Marxian idea of confiscating the land and factories and running the entire economy as a single enterprise is momentous. Likewise, Lenin’s invention of the one-party police state as a way to make Marx’s idea work is hardly less momentous. Stalin’s resolute putting across of these two ideas, of course, did much to divide the world. With only these differences, however, the east and the west could most certainly still live in peace. The real, basic difference, however, lies in the religion of immoralism . . . invented by Marx, preached feverishly by Lenin, and carried to unimaginable extremes by Stalin. This religion of immoralism, if the Red half of the world triumphs—and well it may, gentlemen—this religion of immoralism will more deeply wound and damage mankind than any conceivable economic or political system. Karl Marx dismissed God as a hoax, and Lenin and Stalin have added in clear-cut, unmistakable language their resolve that no nation, no people who believe in a god, can exist side by side with their communistic state. Karl Marx, for example, expelled people from his Communist Party for mentioning such things as love, justice, humanity or morality. He called this “soulful ravings” and “sloppy sentimentality.” . . . Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between communistic atheism and Christianity. The modern champions of communism have selected this as the time, and ladies and gentlemen, the chips are down—they are truly down. Lest there be any doubt that the time has been chosen, let us go directly to the leader of communism today— Joseph Stalin. Here is what he said—not back in 1928, not before the war, not during the war—but 2 years after the last war was ended: “To think that the Communist revolution can be carried out peacefully, within the framework of a Christian democracy, means one has either gone out of one’s mind and lost all normal understanding, or has grossly and openly repudiated the Communist revolution.” . . . Ladies and gentlemen, can there be anyone tonight who is so blind as to say that the war is not on? Can there by anyone who fails to realize that the Communist world has said the time is now? . . . that this is the time for the showdown between the democratic Christian world and the communistic atheistic world? Unless we face this fact, we shall pay the price that must be paid by those who wait too long. Six years ago, . . . there was within the Soviet orbit, 180,000,000 people. Lined up on the antitotalitarian side there were in the world at that time, roughly 1,625,000,000 people. Today, only six years later, there are 800,000,000 people under the absolute domination of Soviet Russia—an increase of over 400 percent. On our side, the figure has shrunk to around 500,000,000. In other words, in less than six years, the odds have changed from 9 to 1 in our favor to 8 to 5 against us. This indicates the swiftness of the tempo of Communist victories and American defeats in the cold war. As one of our outstanding historical figures once said, “When a great democracy is destroyed, it will not be from enemies from without, but rather because of enemies from within.” . . . The reason why we find ourselves in a position of impotency is not because our only powerful potential enemy has sent men to invade our shores . . . but rather because of the traitorous actions of those who have been treated so well by this Nation. It has not been the less fortunate, or members of minority groups who have been traitorous to this Nation, but rather those who have had all the benefits that the wealthiest Nation on earth has had to offer . . . the finest homes, the finest college education and the finest jobs in government we can give. This is glaringly true in the State Department. There the bright young men who are born with silver spoons in their mouths are the ones who have been most traitorous. . . . I have here in my hand a list of 205 . . . a list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department. . . . As you know, very recently the Secretary of State proclaimed his loyalty to a man guilty of what has always been considered as the most abominable of all crimes—being a traitor to the people who gave him a position of great trust—high treason. . . . He has lighted the spark which is resulting in a moral uprising and will end only when the whole sorry mess of twisted, warped thinkers are swept from the national scene so that we may have a new birth of honesty and decency in government.

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follow letter mccarthy write truman wisconsin republican joseph r mccarthy win election senate campaign mark anticommunist redbaite partially response republican party victory president harry s truman try demonstrate concern threat communism set loyalty program federal employee ask justice department compile official list subversive organization midterm election year get underway state department official alger hiss suspect espionage convict perjury mccarthy speech wheel west virginia mount attack truman foreign policy agenda charge state department secretary dean acheson harbor traitorous communist dispute number communists mccarthy claim know advance copy speech distribute press record number mccarthy quickly revise claim letter write president truman day official transcript speech mccarthy submit congressional record day later use number mccarthy display list name wheeling later senate floor list public lady gentleman tonight celebrate fortyfirst birthday great man american history like able talk glorious day today history world celebrate birth man heart soul hate war like able speak peace time war outlaw worldwide disarmament truly appropriate thing able mention celebrate birthday abraham lincoln year world war win man heart anticipate long peace man mind free heavy weight come war period period peace time cold war time world split vast increasingly hostile armed camp time great armament race today physically hear muttering rumbling invigorated god war feel hear way indochina hill shore formosa right heart europe encourage thing mad moment arrive firing gun exploding bomb set civilization final task destroy hope peace finally decide long safely blind eye close ear fact shape clearly engage showdown fight usual war nation land area material gain war diametrically oppose ideology great difference western christian world atheistic communist world political gentleman moral instance marxian idea confiscate land factory run entire economy single enterprise momentous likewise lenin invention oneparty police state way marx idea work hardly momentous stalin resolute put idea course divide world difference east west certainly live peace real basic difference lie religion immoralism invent marx preach feverishly lenin carry unimaginable extreme stalin religion immoralism red half world triumph gentleman religion immoralism deeply wound damage mankind conceivable economic political system karl marx dismiss god hoax lenin stalin add clearcut unmistakable language resolve nation people believe god exist communistic state karl marx example expel people communist party mention thing love justice humanity morality call soulful raving sloppy sentimentality today engage final allout battle communistic atheism christianity modern champion communism select time lady gentleman chip truly lest doubt time choose let directly leader communism today joseph stalin say war war year war end think communist revolution carry peacefully framework christian democracy mean go mind lose normal understanding grossly openly repudiate communist revolution lady gentleman tonight blind war fail realize communist world say time time showdown democratic christian world communistic atheistic world face fact shall pay price pay wait long year ago soviet orbit people line antitotalitarian world time roughly people today year later people absolute domination soviet russia increase percent figure shrink word year odd change favor indicate swiftness tempo communist victory american defeat cold war outstanding historical figure say great democracy destroy enemy enemy reason find position impotency powerful potential enemy send man invade shore traitorous action treat nation fortunate member minority group traitorous nation benefit wealthy nation earth offer fine home fine college education fine job government glaringly true state department bright young man bear silver spoon mouth one traitorous hand list list name known secretary state member communist party work shape policy state department know recently secretary state proclaim loyalty man guilty consider abominable crime traitor people give position great trust high treason light spark result moral uprising end sorry mess twist warp thinker sweep national scene new birth honesty decency government

Speeches, etc. You may have read the reports that five of Mr Callaghan 's senior ministers—Messrs Healey, Foot, Rees, Owen and Hattersley—have beseeched the Prime Minister not to hold the election just yet. Their argument seems to be: “Never accept the thrashing today that you can put off until tomorrow.” Of course, it's not difficult to see why the frightened five might be a little nervous about their electoral appeal to the people. How can Denis Healey look forward to the future when he can't face up to the past. With 1½ million on the dole, nearly 200,000 in Scotland, he stands too much chance of being invited to join them and ending up just another Socialist statistic. Then there's Roy Hattersley, our Prices Minister, who might find electioneering in the High Street a little too hot for comfort. After all, he's been in the Wilson/Callaghan government—the only government to double food prices within 4½ years. [end p1] David Owen comes from a constituency which is heavily involved in defence and you know what Labour has done to that. While as to Merlyn Rees 's claim to popularity—well, I am afraid he's classified that as an official secret. As for Michael Foot, in his passion for the abolition of all parts of the Constitution, such as the House of Lords and replacing Royal Commissions with Republican Commissions, I can only assume that he would be happy to see the next election delayed indefinitely. Not a very impressive bunch of chickens for Farmer James CallaghanJim to take to market. Now let me turn to a few things I want to deal with especially, this evening. [end p2] ([Note by MT:] 11 of our candidates are YC's.) In the forthcoming election, there will be a concerted effort by our opponents to turn logic around and to stand truth on its head. Moses will descend from the mountain and will try to attribute to Labour all the traditional virtues of the Conservatives, while ascribing to Conservatives all the characteristic vices of Labour. Flat earthers will abound, Thatcher will be declared a dangerous radical and Labour will claim the field as the “natural” party of government. But what is “natural” about Labour Government? It isn't natural to have 1½ million unemployed—except under Labour. It isn't natural to have prices double in five years, halving the value of the pound in your pocket and of your savings in the bank—except under Labour. [end p3] It isn't natural to deprive our police of the support they need to protect our citizens or to run down our defences to a dangerously low state.—except under Labour. It isn't natural to paralyse enterprise by the steady extension of government control over the economy—except under Labour. It isn't natural to have a health service which is crumbling into decay under the weight of bureaucracy and industrial strife—except under Labour. It isn't natural to destroy flourishing schools—except under Labour. And it isn't natural to boast about a policy which has reduced living standards and piled up debt—except under Labour. So much for Labour being the natural party of government. The truth is that these things lead to instability and decline—they deprive people of security and hope. [end p4] The only natural part of Labour Government is the failure which inevitably accompanies its drive to Socialism. The dole queues and frustration in this Socialist paradise are a breeding ground for disaster and despair in the future. Meanwhile the bandwagon of government borrowing and public expenditure has again been set in motion by the Denis HealeyChancellor. We saw it all before in 1976 when the Chancellor took Britain to the brink of disaster. He was saved by the IMF, and ever since he has been bragging about how IMF government really works. But come the election, the IMF won't be standing. Mr Healey will be. And he knows, “Labour isn't working” . [end p5] One of the most difficult and important tasks the next government will face is how to reduce unemployment, how to set about building the sort of economic conditions in which there will be more genuine jobs. I am not talking about more artificial jobs; they may be better than having nothing to do, but what we really want are jobs that not only create extra work, but also create extra wealth. Unemployment can't be reduced for long by measures which simply affect the statistics and convert actual unemployment into concealed unemployment. That's like treating the symptoms rather than the disease. Let us look for a moment at where jobs come from and why some of them disappear. We are all consumers—we all spend our money on things we choose at prices which suit our pocket. Some of the things we buy are made overseas, some in the British Isles. [end p6] The inescapable fact is that the people who have good jobs and lasting jobs, are those who work for businesses which produce goods or services we want at prices we are prepared to pay. Jobs come through the customer. His purchases decide what and where those jobs shall be. For example, we buy cars of a design we like, a size we want at a price within our means. The jobs in the car industry will go to those manufacturers whose cars satisfy us as customers. Our tastes will change, so successful producers have to design new models, instal the latest and most up-to-date machinery and use it effectively to make the car as cheap as possible. If producers don't, they will lose the business and the jobs, to those who do. Alas, too many of our “car jobs” have gone to Germany, France and Japan, because their companies and workforces have learned these lessons. Manuscript addition by MT: The real tragedy of recent years has been that many firms have disappeared from industries where other European countries compete and where we ought to be able to do likewise. Typescript resumes: [end p7] The same basic requirement of satisfying the customer goes for our many and varying tastes—whether in clothes, TV sets, kitchen equipment, carpets, foodstuffs, etc. Look at the number of things we now use that were unknown to your parents in their youth: transistor radios, colour TV, computers, drip-dry textiles, deep freezes, Sky-train. These weren't dreamed up by sector working parties or Ministers for Industry. They came from those in industry and commerce who had new ideas and the skill and determination to put them into practice. [Manuscript addition by MT] So government policies have to encourage these people & not hinder them. [Typescript resumes:] What are the do's and don't's for more genuine jobs and real prosperity? Don't tax income so highly that employers and employees say it isn't worthwhile to work harder or to expand. [end p8] Don't tax profits so much that people won't take risks. You can't expect them to risk almost everything they've got to set up in business if they bear all the losses and the government takes nearly all the gains. Don't envy the success of others—applaud it. It's painfully obvious that some Socialists would rather have more unemployed than see a few people make a big success of building up a business and providing a lot of jobs. Don't employ twice as many people as a job needs unless they are prepared to work for half the competitor's pay. [Manuscript addition by MT:] You won't save a business or save jobs by making it uncompetitive. [Typescript resumes:] Do have taxation policies which encourage effort, skill and responsibility and encourage people to start up in business and make it grow. [end p9] Do pursue budget policies which keep down government borrowing. When governments borrow heavily—and this one has—the results are inflation, which is a fraud on people's savings, and high interest rates, which are a brake on expansion. Do reduce detailed government regulation which diverts effort away from production and efficiency. Do adopt economic and political policies which encourage profits so that there are sufficient resources to plough back in research and development and to provide investment. Let us get this clear then; real jobs are created by the skill and energy of those in industry and commerce, who see a market need and satisfy it. The most useful thing a government can do is to assist and encourage this natural process. Above all governments must not impede it. [end p10] Sometimes politicians are asked: “Where will all the new jobs come from” ? We cannot foresee precisely where the new jobs will be, but that doesn't mean the jobs won't happen. If, in June 1959, Mr Derick Heathcoat Amory, the then Conservative Chancellor of the Exchequer, had been asked the question, where will the new jobs come from in the next three years, he might have answered: “From successful private enterprise” . He certainly wouldn't have guessed have that the engineering and electrical industries would provide 251,000 more jobs, or the paper and printing industries nearly fifty-three thousand. And why should anyone have expected him to predict that another forty-five thousand jobs would appear in the metal goods industries and another thirty-four thousand in food, drink and tobacco? [end p11] He couldn't have foreseen these things any more than Tony Barber could have foreseen the massive growth in the distributive trades, and the construction industry which occurred under the last Conservative Government. All these jobs under previous Conservative Administrations were brought into being without planning agreements, the Industrial Strategy, or the National Enterprise Board. Governments concentrated on the business of Government which is to create the conditions under which private enterprise can work successfully. [end p12] A political philosophy based on detailed government intervention and regulation does not turn the wheels of progress—it clogs them. Socialist planners so often get it wrong. Let me give you one example. Twelve years ago the Labour Government published a plan for the future of the Scottish economy. It was full of optimism, as such plans always are. There was only one cloud on the horizon for those planners, only one corner of Scotland which would not share in the boom which was supposedly coming. That corner was Aberdeen and its hinterland which, according to the planners, was going to miss out. [end p13] But they reckoned without private enterprise which discovered, exploited and brought ashore North Sea Oil, making Aberdeen today the boom-town of Britain. Of course, if it had been left to the planners, the oil would still be at the bottom of the ocean and Aberdeen would still be back in the 1960's while the rest of the world is moving into the 1980's. Yet the chill winds of experience never seem to dampen the ardour of Socialist regulators. There was only one thing which held up Sir Freddie Laker 's onslaught on airline prices—Labour ministers, and they had to be taken to court before they would get off his back. They never learn. Show a Socialist any sign of prosperity, and he will use it as an excuse for more taxation. Show a Socialist a mark of success, and he will see in it a cause for further control and restraint. Show a Socialist an enterprising idea, and he will reject it as a Tory plot. [end p14] The Scotland Act contains a pledge that the people of Scotland will be consulted in a referendum. I would like to make it clear that the next Conservative Government will honour that pledge. The holding of a referendum is not an issue between the two parties. It remains our view that the present Act is misguided. But if the result of the referendum is such as to persuade Parliament that the Act should be brought into operation (and the final decision is one for Parliament) it would be the duty of a Conservative Government to ensure that this constitutional change develops in a way compatible with the unity and prosperity of Britain. [end p15] However, if Scotland rejects the Act the Conservative Government will convene an all-Party Conference, as we have long advocated, in order to achieve the greatest possible measure of agreement on a policy which will both satisfy the just aspirations of the people of Scotland for a proper influence over their own affairs and which is consistent with the unity and good government of the Kingdom. [end p16] A healthy private sector is essential to our economic recovery. It already provides 7 out of every 10 jobs and will provide many more if it is encouraged rather than harrassed. But a word about the public sector. There are many things we cannot do for ourselves—defence, law and order, roads and public transport, hospitals, schools and colleges. All these are vital to the nation's future. Good administration, a professional approach and efficiency are just as important there as elsewhere. Although those who work in the public sector have to be financed out of the proceeds of productive commerce, they have the satisfaction of knowing that their competence makes a great contribution to a flourishing private sector. Indeed, it could not do without them. [end p17] You will have noticed that we devoted our last Party Political Broadcast to the Social Services. The Social Services grew and flourished under Conservative governments as we created prosperity in which everyone shared. It was a Conservative Government which introduced the Christmas bonus for pensioners. It was a Conservative Government which introduced pensions for the over-80's. It was a Conservative Government which introduced the invalidity allowance for the chronically sick. It was a Conservative Government which introduced the Family Income Supplement for poorer families. It was a Conservative Government which introduced an Attendance Allowance for the seriously disabled who need constant care and attention. [end p18] It was a Conservative Government which introduced a widow's pension for those women widowed between the ages of 40 and 50. This is but a small part of a record of which we have reason to be proud. I do not claim that the Conservative Party is the only party which cares, that we have an exclusive claim to compassion and concern for the unemployed and the poor. But I do say that we are the only party which recognises that we are all in this together, that we cannot ensure security for the old unless we create opportunity for the young. Creating more national wealth is the key to providing better national welfare. [end p19] Beginning of section marked “Not included in press release” . We recognise that our approach involves a change of direction. It will put a full-stop to the Labour Party's declared intention of moving relentlessly towards the Socialist policy of the Left. Failure to change direction, however, could run this country into great risk and danger, imperil present jobs, inhibit new ones, undermine the structure of the social services, and leave us virtually defenceless. We shall proceed steadily, conscious that our objectives are better obtained over a Parliament rather than 100 days. There can be no substitute for victory. End of section marked “Not included in press release” and end of speech. [end p20] (2) The Times, 2 September 1978: Mrs Margaret Thatcher, the Leader of the Opposition, last night said “five frightened men” are pressing the Prime Minister not to hold an autumn general election. She said that they were Mr Michael Foot, the Leader of the House of Commons, Mr Merlyn Rees, the Home Secretary, Dr David Owen, the Foreign Secretary, Mr Denis Healey, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Mr Roy Hattersley, the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Affairs. She told a rally of Glasgow Young Conservatives that those were the Cabinet ministers who were afraid of facing the electorate. She added that Mr Healey had a vested interest in opposing an election, because he was responsible for an economic policy that had placed more than a million and a half people on the dole; if the election took place in October, he would join the unemployment queue. Earlier at Melrose Mrs Thatcher crisply listed the four main issues, apart from high unemployment, on which the general election will be fought by the Conservative Party. The first was taxation “in the knowledge that you have to create wealth before you can distribute it” . The second was law and order, because “I find wherever I go this is an issue; you cannot have a strong people who are free unless you have the law impartially and justly administered” . The third was adequate defence forces. Mrs Thatcher, having said there would be three issues, then added another: “To reconfirm our people in a parliamentary democracy as a forum that truly represents the people and that no power in the land should be more powerful than that.” That was taken by some of her audience as a warning against the power of some trade unionists. The Conservative Party offered, she went on, a splendid programme of belief that could not be compromised “by cynical pacts because people are afraid to face an election” . She and her party were not afraid to face the electorate and they were confident of victory. Later in the day, at Glasgow, Mrs Thatcher predicted how Mr Callaghan and Labour would play their election campaign. She said there would be a concerted effort by Labour to turn logic around and to stand truth on its head. Mrs Thatcher said: “Moses will descend from the mountain and will attribute to Labour all the traditional virtues of the Conservatives while ascribing to Conservatives all the characteristic vices of Labour. Flat earthers will abound. Thatcher will be declared a dangerous radical and Labour will claim the field as the ‘natural’ party of government.” Mrs Thatcher has separately developed in speeches over many months the detail of her four electioneering themes but yesterday for the first time she gave them in succinct party manifesto form. Throughout her three-day tour of Border constituencies she has given party workers the clearest orders to work for a decisive Commons majority, and has refused to discuss any Liberal or minor party pact except to dismiss it from her serious political thinking. Yesterday she spent the daylight hours in Dr David Steel 's Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles constituency, and consequently gave increased emphasis to her swelling theme of Conservatives going it alone. Mr Steel, she said in Melrose, was arguing that weak government was good government, and that a Labour government propped up by a handful of Liberal MPs was better than a government with a good majority in Parliament. That was nonsense. Minority governments could only struggle on from day to day with a series of short-term measures. They could not tackle longer-term questions that affected the future of the nation. “No one should be in politics unless he has strong beliefs and wants to see them translated into action” , she said. “To promote pact politics is to preach beliefs at election time only to compromise them immediately afterwards so that power can be shared with a party that believes something different.” That sort of cynicism would not suit her or the Conservative Party. It would reduce Parliament to a political bazaar where votes had to be bought by doing deals, regardless of the true need of other people. Last night, Mrs Thatcher, who has spent many hours promenading high streets and meeting fishermen and farmers, made the only big set speech of her Scottish visit to the rally of Scottish Young Conservatives. To them she developed at length the Tory views on excessively high unemployment that have been made the opening broadside in the Conservatives' national election campaign. In a question session afterwards, Mrs Thatcher said that she would bring back grant-aided schools. Challenged about Conservative immigration policy she conceded that many immigrants from India and Pakistan were very close in their attitudes to the Conservative Party. “I do not want to put any of that in jeopardy” , she said. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc read report mr callaghan s senior minister messrs healey foot ree owen hattersley beseech prime minister hold election argument accept thrashing today tomorrow course difficult frightened little nervous electoral appeal people denis healey look forward future not face past million dole nearly scotland stand chance invite join end socialist statistic s roy hattersley price minister find electioneer high street little hot comfort s wilsoncallaghan government government double food price year end david owen come constituency heavily involved defence know labour merlyn rees s claim popularity afraid s classify official secret michael foot passion abolition part constitution house lord replace royal commission republican commission assume happy election delay indefinitely impressive bunch chicken farmer james callaghanjim market let turn thing want deal especially evening end note mt candidate yc forthcoming election concerted effort opponent turn logic stand truth head moses descend mountain try attribute labour traditional virtue conservative ascribe conservative characteristic vice labour flat earther abound thatcher declare dangerous radical labour claim field natural party government natural labour government not natural million unemployed labour not natural price double year halve value pound pocket saving bank labour end not natural deprive police support need protect citizen run defence dangerously low state labour not natural paralyse enterprise steady extension government control economy labour not natural health service crumble decay weight bureaucracy industrial strife labour not natural destroy flourish school labour not natural boast policy reduce living standard pile debt labour labour natural party government truth thing lead instability decline deprive people security hope end natural labour government failure inevitably accompany drive socialism dole queue frustration socialist paradise breeding ground disaster despair future bandwagon government borrowing public expenditure set motion denis healeychancellor see chancellor take britain brink disaster save imf brag imf government work come election imf will not stand mr healey know labour not work end difficult important task government face reduce unemployment set build sort economic condition genuine job talk artificial job well have want job create extra work create extra wealth unemployment not reduce long measure simply affect statistic convert actual unemployment conceal unemployment s like treat symptom disease let look moment job come disappear consumer spend money thing choose price suit pocket thing buy overseas british isle end inescapable fact people good job lasting job work business produce good service want price prepared pay job come customer purchase decide job shall example buy car design like size want price mean job car industry manufacturer car satisfy customer taste change successful producer design new model instal late uptodate machinery use effectively car cheap possible producer not lose business job alas car job go germany france japan company workforce learn lesson manuscript addition mt real tragedy recent year firm disappear industry european country compete ought able likewise typescript resume end basic requirement satisfy customer go vary taste clothe tv set kitchen equipment carpet foodstuff etc look number thing use unknown parent youth transistor radio colour tv computer dripdry textile deep freeze skytrain not dream sector work party minister industry come industry commerce new idea skill determination practice manuscript addition mt government policy encourage people hinder typescript resume do dont genuine job real prosperity not tax income highly employer employee not worthwhile work hard expand end not tax profit people will not risk not expect risk ve get set business bear loss government take nearly gain not envy success applaud painfully obvious socialist unemployed people big success build business provide lot job not employ twice people job need prepared work half competitor pay manuscript addition mt will not save business save job make uncompetitive typescript resume taxation policy encourage effort skill responsibility encourage people start business grow end pursue budget policy government borrowing government borrow heavily result inflation fraud people saving high interest rate brake expansion reduce detailed government regulation divert effort away production efficiency adopt economic political policy encourage profit sufficient resource plough research development provide investment let clear real job create skill energy industry commerce market need satisfy useful thing government assist encourage natural process government impede end politician ask new job come foresee precisely new job not mean job will not happen june mr derick heathcoat amory conservative chancellor exchequer ask question new job come year answer successful private enterprise certainly not guess engineering electrical industry provide job paper printing industry nearly fiftythree thousand expect predict fortyfive thousand job appear metal good industry thirtyfour thousand food drink tobacco end not foresee thing tony barber foresee massive growth distributive trade construction industry occur conservative government job previous conservative administration bring plan agreement industrial strategy national enterprise board government concentrate business government create condition private enterprise work successfully end political philosophy base detailed government intervention regulation turn wheel progress clog socialist planner wrong let example year ago labour government publish plan future scottish economy optimism plan cloud horizon planner corner scotland share boom supposedly come corner aberdeen hinterland accord planner go miss end reckon private enterprise discover exploit bring ashore north sea oil making aberdeen today boomtown britain course leave planner oil ocean aberdeen rest world move chill wind experience dampen ardour socialist regulator thing hold sir freddie laker s onslaught airline price labour minister take court learn socialist sign prosperity use excuse taxation socialist mark success cause control restraint socialist enterprising idea reject tory plot end scotland act contain pledge people scotland consult referendum like clear conservative government honour pledge holding referendum issue party remain view present act misguided result referendum persuade parliament act bring operation final decision parliament duty conservative government ensure constitutional change develop way compatible unity prosperity britain end scotland reject act conservative government convene allparty conference long advocate order achieve great possible measure agreement policy satisfy aspiration people scotland proper influence affair consistent unity good government kingdom end healthy private sector essential economic recovery provide job provide encourage harrasse word public sector thing defence law order road public transport hospital school college vital nation future good administration professional approach efficiency important work public sector finance proceed productive commerce satisfaction know competence make great contribution flourish private sector end notice devote party political broadcast social service social service grow flourish conservative government create prosperity share conservative government introduce christmas bonus pensioner conservative government introduce pension conservative government introduce invalidity allowance chronically sick conservative government introduce family income supplement poor family conservative government introduce attendance allowance seriously disabled need constant care attention end conservative government introduce widow pension woman widow age small record reason proud claim conservative party party care exclusive claim compassion concern unemployed poor party recognise ensure security old create opportunity young create national wealth key provide well national welfare end beginning section mark include press release recognise approach involve change direction fullstop labour partys declare intention move relentlessly socialist policy left failure change direction run country great risk danger imperil present job inhibit new one undermine structure social service leave virtually defenceless shall proceed steadily conscious objective well obtain parliament day substitute victory end section mark include press release end speech end time september mrs margaret thatcher leader opposition night say frightened man press prime minister hold autumn general election say mr michael foot leader house commons mr merlyn ree home secretary dr david owen foreign secretary mr denis healey chancellor exchequer mr roy hattersley secretary state price consumer affair tell rally glasgow young conservative cabinet minister afraid face electorate add mr healey vested interest oppose election responsible economic policy place million half people dole election take place october join unemployment queue early melrose mrs thatcher crisply list main issue apart high unemployment general election fight conservative party taxation knowledge create wealth distribute second law order find issue strong people free law impartially justly administer adequate defence force mrs thatcher having say issue add reconfirm people parliamentary democracy forum truly represent people power land powerful take audience warning power trade unionist conservative party offer go splendid programme belief compromise cynical pact people afraid face election party afraid face electorate confident victory later day glasgow mrs thatcher predict mr callaghan labour play election campaign say concerted effort labour turn logic stand truth head mrs thatcher say moses descend mountain attribute labour traditional virtue conservative ascribe conservative characteristic vice labour flat earther abound thatcher declare dangerous radical labour claim field natural party government mrs thatcher separately develop speech month detail electioneer theme yesterday time give succinct party manifesto form threeday tour border constituency give party worker clear order work decisive common majority refuse discuss liberal minor party pact dismiss political thinking yesterday spend daylight hour dr david steel s roxburgh selkirk peeble constituency consequently give increase emphasis swell theme conservative go mr steel say melrose argue weak government good government labour government prop handful liberal mp well government good majority parliament nonsense minority government struggle day day series shortterm measure tackle longerterm question affect future nation politic strong belief want translate action say promote pact politic preach belief election time compromise immediately power share party believe different sort cynicism suit conservative party reduce parliament political bazaar vote buy deal regardless true need people night mrs thatcher spend hour promenade high street meet fisherman farmer big set speech scottish visit rally scottish young conservative develop length tory view excessively high unemployment opening broadside conservative national election campaign question session mrs thatcher say bring grantaide school challenge conservative immigration policy concede immigrant india pakistan close attitude conservative party want jeopardy say copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Mrs. Margaret Thatcher (Finchley) Being unaccustomed to opposition, I referred to the debate on the last Pensions (Increase) Bill which the Tory Government presented, to see how the right hon. Member for Sowerby (Mr. Houghton) coped with the situation from the Dispatch Box at which I now stand. His speech had four aspects. First, he expressed congratulations. Then he went on to commentary, then to criticism and, finally, to constructive suggestion. I propose to follow the precedent which he has set. He was very skilled in opposition. I hope never to attain such skill in opposition as he did. First, I will follow the right hon. Gentleman, by congratulating Miss M. Herbisonthe right hon. Lady in being so fortunate, in the first few weeks of her Ministry, as to, to be able to bring forward increases in pension benefits. She will agree that it is a very pleasant duty. I now pass to criticism, commentary and what I hope are some constructive suggestions. First, I want to take the right hon. Lady up on some of the debating points that she made at the beginning of her speech. She made a fighting speech, but I think that she was fighting her own side. She pointed to the striking contrast between the present proposals and what happened under the Tory Government in 1951. But when we returned to power in 1951 it was after an election immediately before which there had been a pensions increase. This was the only time that there had been an increase in pensions just before an election. The Socialist Government increased them three weeks before the 1951 election, having left them untouched for five whole years. But that increase did not restore the level of benefits to the position in 1946. The right hon. Lady now comes to office under very different circumstances. [column 1313]There have been swift increases under past Tory Governments. There was an increase in 1961 and another increase in 1963, to deal only with what happened in the last Parliament. So there is no basis for the analogy which the right hon. Lady is seeking to draw. The right hon. Lady then said that we would be against these increases because we had denied the Government the means of paying for them. Presumably she means that we voted against the increase in the standard rate of tax. I must point out that if on the five occasions on which we increased benefits we had also increased the standard rate of tax by 6d., that standard rate would now be 12s. in the £. I have never heard such nonsense. We inherited a standard rate of tax of 9s. 6d. imposed by Hugh Gaitskellthe last Socialist Chancellor of the Exchequer. We managed to make five pensions increases and, at the same time, to reduce the standard rate of Income Tax. I would point out to the right hon. Lady that it augurs very ill for retirement pensioners if she is saying that every time she increases pensions 6d. must be put on the standard rate of tax and another 6d. on petrol. Miss Herbison Will the hon. Lady tell us how the Tory Government were expecting to pay for the increases, since it was made clear that they would be dependent on a 4 per cent. increase in production? We would like to know that. Mrs. Thatcher I speak as one brought up in trade and still in trade, and I can say that the economic situation would have been quite different if we had been returned to power. I also speak as a Member who has not merely sat on the benches opposite distributing the moneys which other folk have made; I speak as one who has been concerned in manufacturing and retailing, in both the home and export trade. I commend to the right hon. Lady the difference between her general attitude and that taken by Lord Attlee on past Tory records. The right hon. Lady spoke very highly of the work done by the Beveridge Committee. I entirely agree. But to listen to the right hon. Lady one would have thought that its Report was entirely the child of the Labour Party. On 7th February, 1946, Lord Attlee, speaking on the National Insurance Bill, said: [column 1314] At least Lord Attlee was prepared to be accurate, honest and magnanimous. I now turn to one other point of commentary—the comparison of rates of benefit with average earnings and retail prices, of which the right hon. Lady has made a considerable point. She said that increases in pension benefits had lagged behind earnings, taking them over the whole period from 1946. I agree that if we take them over the whole of that period it is true that they have not risen as much as have the increases in average earnings. If, however, we take 1951 as the base year, which was the beginning of the stewardship of the Tory Government, we find that the reverse is true. Brigadier Terence Clarke (Portsmouth, West) And the pensioners know it. Mrs. Thatcher I want to give the right hon. Lady some figures which were supplied to me by her Department before I left. In October, 1946, the single rate of pension introduced by the right hon. Lady's Government was 21½ per cent. of the then average earnings. In October, 1951, which was the end of the period of Labour Government, it had fallen to 18 per cent. of average earnings. That was the situation which we inherited, in spite of an increase three weeks before the October, 1951, election. Over our period of Government, up to April, 1964, the pension was increased again until, in that month, it stood at 19 per cent. of average earnings. In our stewardship, therefore, we increased pensions benefits, expressed as a percentage of average earnings. In the right hon. Lady's own memorandum—Cmnd. 2518—she compliments us, over her own signature, on our performance over the last five years when she says: There are many other figures that I could give concerning the position, but I will pass from the point. One test of the adequacy of pension benefit rates used by the right hon. Lady and by her right hon. Friend when they were in opposition was the test of how the rates compared with the then average earnings. Naturally, as I expect she has done, I have been looking back over the debates, and have been studying the Amendments which she and her right hon. Friend put forward. I notice that on 6th February, 1963, she and her right hon. Friend moved an Amendment to increase the level of pension which we were then putting forward. They used as one test of the adequacy of the rate that they were then proposing the comparison between it and average earnings. The right hon. Gentleman then mentioned that according to his researches average earnings in manufacturing industries were £16s. 6s. It is interesting that, when he was in Opposition, for average earnings of £16 6s. he then proposed a £4 rate of pension. Now average earnings are £17 12s. 5d., but he is in power and he is not proposing an increase proportionate to the increase in average earnings since that time. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. Douglas Houghton) May we expect that the hon. Lady and her friends will put down an Amendment to improve the benefit? Mrs. Thatcher No, we believe in behaving when in Opposition as we would if we were in the Government. We do not believe in having a public auction of pensions. The right hon. Gentleman knows full well that every time we had an increase he put down an Amendment which made a bid for higher increases. When we had an increase of 10s. last time he put down an Amendment for an increase of 22s., or it may have been 22s. 6d. We shall not behave in that way because we believe that once again we shall soon be the new Government and that people will judge us then by what we said we could do in Opposition. Indeed the right hon. Lady has found this out, because they expected her to do in power what [column 1316]she said she could do when she was in Opposition. I have turned up the reference to the increase to which I referred proposed by the right hon. Member for Sowerby. It was 22s. 6d. for single persons when we were proposing 10s., and he proposed 32s. 6d. for a married couple when we proposed 16s. 6d. The right hon. Lady said that to restore the rate of benefit to where it was—presumably in May, 1963—would require, I believe she said, 2s. 7d. In her own memorandum again on page 7, she goes on to say in paragraph 8: that is late March, 1965— Is she says that to restore it now would require 2s. 7d. she is expecting a very great rise in the cost of living between now and the end of March; for she said 2s. 7d. in her own memorandum published as late as last Friday morning at three minutes past eleven. By then, March, 1965, it would require between 4s. and 5s. increase. There is only one way to get that figure and it is to postulate an increase in the index of prices of 3 or 4 points. The right hon. Lady may be being extremely honest, in which case I congratulate her. She will perhaps remember, if she has gone back over the earlier debates, that when the Labour Government of 1945 fixed the pension increases they fixed them in these terms. On 6th February, 1946, a statement was made in the House to this effect: For that reason the Labour Government increased the Coalition Government's proposal from 20s. single and 35s. married to 26s. single and 42s. married, on the basis that Hugh Daltonthe Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer would hold the cost of living at 31 per cent. over the September, 1939 level. What happened? The cost of living rose at unprecedented rates. In 1948 it rose 4.6 per cent., in 1949 by 3..6 per cent. In 1950, 3.9 per [column 1317]cent., and in 1951, the last year of the Labour Government's rule, by 13 per cent.—in one year. So that by that time the benefits had been eaten away. There was an increase in pensions three weeks before the 1951 election. So much for some of the traditional indicators. I come on to another point raised by the right hon. Lady, that of contributions and taxation, and I also will deal with what hon. Members opposite have said about taxation in this connection. We have never shied away from the fact that to increase pensions benefits we must increase contributions. Indeed, from the Government Dispatch Box I was always trying to urge hon. Members opposite, who were then on this side of the House, that they should never try to convey the impression that we could have large increases in benefits without the ordinary people paying any increased contributions. So therefore we have an absolutely clear record on this matter. The total weekly stamp has gone up very greatly in cost. It is now 26s. 7d. basic rate for those participating in the scheme. For those who have contracted out it is 31s. 5d. I think it is worth mentioning that for those participating in the scheme with average earnings the cost of the weekly stamp has gone through the £2 barrier. For those on average earnings the cost is now 41s. 3d. for the weekly stamp. For those earning £18 and over it is 41s. 11d. each week. We have a clear record on contributions, but hon. Members opposite have been very acid when before there has been an increase on the flat-rate contributions. Indeed, the right hon. Member for Coventry, East (Mr. Crossman), as reported in the Official Report on 28th January, 1963, said: I wonder whether he would say the same to the right hon. Lady if he were here today. I understand that he has other duties. She is in fact now putting a 2s. increase in place of the 1s. basic [column 1318]increase which was the subject of his comment. Hon. Members opposite have always said that the Exchequer should bear a large proportion of the contributions. But I understand that the Exchequer contribution will be unchanged by the provisions of this Bill. It seems to me that hon. Members opposite are now, for the first time, being brought face to face with the realities of power which they should have faced upon these benches, had they been prepared to look at the whole scheme on a sound financial basis, instead of being more concerned to outbid us regardless of the consequences. The right hon. Lady made some strong strictures on the graduated scheme. I was not surprised, as she made equally strong strictures on the scheme in one of her party political broadcasts where I think that she was thoroughly misleading in a sentence which I shall quote. On 9th October on the Light Programme, in a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party, the right hon. Lady said this: This is the bit on which I want to comment: A more misleading statement I could not imagine. It is as if the rest of the Government had used the money collected for graded pensions. The right hon. Lady knows that every single penny went to meet pensions and benefits paid out under National Insurance. But she did not say that in her broadcast. She deliberately chose to use the phrase, was spent “in meeting Government bills” . After her speech today I am not surprised at the way she put it. I turn now to taxation. The right hon. Lady accused us of hypocrisy. I wish that some people who make accusations would cast the mote out of their own eye. First we have been talking about contributions and taxation as a means of financing the scheme. The right hon. Member for Sowerby as he pointed out in his election address, was Chairman of [column 1319]the Public Accounts Committee, a broadcaster— “Can I Help You” and Labour's expert on taxation, finance and pensions. This is all in his write-up on the left-hand side of his election address. What did he say about the taxation of social services? He said: Also on the left-hand side, it said, “Douglas Houghton” —and in a box immediately below “Integrity, Vision, Knowledge, Experience.” I pay the right hon. Gentleman this compliment. Had I read that in his election address as an elector, and knowing him, I would have believed him. I also say this, that I am bitterly disappointed that the Labour Government should now have increased the taxation on top of that pledge which the right hon. Gentleman, Labour's expert on taxation and pensions, gave. I would have had much more glee in trotting that out had it come from one of his right hon. Friends, than coming from him. Mr. Houghton That was written without a realisation of the depth of deception that we have since discovered in the economic and political record of the hon. Lady's party. Mrs. Thatcher I have had to say “Nonsense” to the right hon. Gentleman before, and I now say it once again. May I make another quotation on taxation? This comes from The Guardian of 15th October, 1964, in an article on page 2 entitled “Nursery Economics—Mr. Callaghan. Mr. Maudling 's figures screwy” . Then there is a sub-heading which says “Serious Point” . This is what the present Chancellor says: I should think that that was meant to imply that taxation would not be increased. The third main point is the inter-connection and relation of National Insurance with National Assistance and the propaganda that there has been about a national income guarantee. Throughout the time that I sat on the Government benches hon. Members of the [column 1320]Opposition have got up and said, “Is it not scandalous that there are still as many people on National Assistance?” The number on National Assistance depends on the rate at which the Government increase the Assistance scale rates. One could quite easily have cut down the number on National Assistance by putting up the pension, but not the scale rates. The right hon. Lady has not chosen to do that. We did not, either. During the time that the present Government were in opposition they built up a thorough objection to National Assistance and helped to implant that objection in the minds of the people by the kind of language they used. I quote from “Election Forum” on 23rd September, 1964. This is the terminology which Harold Wilsonthe present Prime Minister used. He said: The terminology which the right hon. Gentleman used was, “instead of being driven on to National Assistance” . In another broadcast, on 12th October, 1964, the right hon. Gentleman said: The right hon. Lady talked of people being abandoned to National Assistance. One cannot in one breath talk about trying to increase people's standard of living by increasing the National Assistance scale and then talk in the other breath of abandoning them to National Assistance. National Assistance is a very wonderful instrument. I personally do not mind whether it is called National Assistance, whether it is called a basic standard of living, whether it is called a basic income, or what. It is the instrument which we use for meeting variations in individual needs, and if, instead of denigrating [column 1321]National Assistance, people would urge its many advantages upon their constituents, then I do not think that there would have been built up the present reluctance which I am told exists about going to it. The whole of the Labour propaganda, both in broadcasts and in “New Britain” and in election addresses, led us to believe that top priority was the introduction of an income guarantee scheme. This, we were led to believe, had been ready for a very long time indeed. At the beginning, “New Britain” said: The Prime Minister also indicated that the national income guarantee was the one thing that would not wait. On page 16 of “New Britain” it was stated: The exception to that was the introduction of the income guarantee. That was going to be done immediately. It has not come immediately for reasons that I would have expected. The right hon. Gentleman, with his knowledge, knows that one cannot introduce a scheme of this complexity immediately, or in the first year at all. He also knows that there are very considerable difficulties in the form of plan which he was proposing. So it has not come immediately, and it will not come immediately. If I may, I will make one other point about testing the adequacy of pension benefits by a rule used by the right hon. Gentleman in a former debate. He said that another test of the adequacy of pension benefits would be how they compared with National Assistance. He also said that one of his criteria of adequacy would be to take the National Assistance scale rate and add to it the National Assistance average rent. So let us test his scale by his own test to see whether the present rate is adequate. The present National Assistance rate is 63s. 6d. and the present National Assistance average rent is 25s. 10d. Had [column 1322]the right hon. Gentleman been standing where I am and using that scale he would have been criticising me were I at the Dispatch Box on the Government Front Bench for introducing a pension benefit of £4 and would say that, on his test, it should be £4 10s. I am not going to adopt his tactics, but the test of adequacy of benefits by his test would mean that the single rate should go up to £4 10s. Mr. Houghton rose—— Mrs. Thatcher The right hon. Gentleman will be winding up the debate tonight. I have given way a good deal. I did not interrupt the right hon. Lady in the only speech in the House which I have seen her read. Mr. Sydney Silverman (Nelson and Colne) The hon. Lady said just now that the increases in the pension could not be paid immediately. I agree with her—that is too painfully obvious to all of us—but if the Administration, of which the hon. Lady was a distinguished member, had intended to raise pensions and had put the preparations in hand at the tail end of the last Session, would there then have been any difficulty in paying them immediately this year? Mrs. Thatcher The hon. Gentleman is right off beam. I am not talking about the timing of the increase in retirement pensions. I am talking about the introduction of the national income guarantee, which is an entirely different point. National Insurance itself, as I understand it, is a basic universal scheme. It is the magic of averages. Everyone gets so much in return for actual contributions. It cannot begin to cater for different individual needs. National Assistance, on the other hand, does cater for individual needs and for variations. There has been a movement on our side, and I believe on both sides, of the House to try to get something rather between those two. Our reasoning, and I believe the reasoning of hon. Members opposite, was that there are circumstances which are not catered for either by National Insurance as it is at present or by National Assistance as it is at present. For example, there are people who would not qualify for help under National Assistance, but who need help because [column 1323]they are suffering under permanent illness like disseminated sclerosis, or poliomyelitis, or they are chronically sick. Perhaps they get National Insurance benefits, but those are not enough. Therefore, we on this side were tackling the problem by trying to urge increasingly selective benefits. The right hon. Lady will remember that on the last Bill the Labour Party was thinking along very much the same lines in the Amendment on the constant attendance allowance, which would have been the same thing for the chronically sick. We were grappling with this problem through last summer. I hope that the right hon. Lady will continue to grapple with it where we left off and find an answer. It is extremely difficult—[Interruption.] I wish that the right hon. Lady would not jump to rather bitter conclusions when I am trying to tell her what we were doing. It is extremely difficult to define the chronically sick. Each of us knows whom we want to benefit, but it is extremely difficult to put in legislation a system which would be administratively equitable and capable of an insurance basis. I know from Amendments which, in the past, were tabled by the Labour Party that the right hon. Lady will agree that there are people such as the chronically sick who are not catered for adequately now by either scheme. I believe that both sides of the House are trying, and will go on trying, to find a solution to this problem. The other day, when the right hon. Lady made her statement in the House, I put a point to her to which I would like to return. It concerns the increased amounts for child dependents under the new increased benefits she has announced. Hitherto, it has been our pride in this country that our scheme has always given preference to the family man—rather more preference than has been given to him on the Continent. The Continental schemes, being based on earnings, have taken their benefits as a percentage of earnings, regardless of the family commitments of the beneficiary. We have not had such an interest in percentage of earnings until now, but we have always seen that family commitments were met under National [column 1324]Insurance by increased benefits in proportion to the increase in family commitments. In 1963, when we proposed increases of 10s. in the single rate and of 16s. 6d. in the married rate, the increase in respect of each child was 2s. 6d. Therefore, when I saw the right hon. Lady's initial proposals, which were not detailed, I expected that she would increase the dependency benefits in respect of children by at least 3s. In fact, she has chosen to give maximum advantage from her increased benefits either to the single man or to the married couple, and the advantages decrease proportionately as the size of the family increases. I am very surprised at this, because there has been a tremendous amount of commentary from sociologists to the effect that the larger the family the lower the standard of living comparatively; therefore, an increase in family allowances is needed—not dependency allowances to cope with this. The increase in family allowances would be completely non-selective and would bring extra help to many people who do not need it, but the way family allowances can be increased for the sick and the unemployed is to increase the dependency benefits, because these by very definition go to the children of people who are either ill or unemployed. Therefore, I would have expected the right hon. Lady to have given larger dependency increases in respect of children than she has given. It is particularly marked in the case of widowed mothers. I am the first to admit that by abolishing the earnings rule for the widowed mother and for the widow the right hon. Lady is doing a great deal for the widow who goes out to work, that is, for the widowed mother who earns more than £7 a week, and for the widow who earns more than £5 a week. But the right hon. Lady's record is not so good in respect of the widowed mother who cannot go out to work because she must stay at home to look after her children. She will not be affected at all by the abolition of the earnings rule. Every time this came up before, we took the advice of the National Insurance Advisory Committee and increased the benefits payable for children. Under [column 1325]us those were not subject at all to the earnings rule. So on the last occasion when the widow herself got a 10s. increase in benefit each of her children got a 5s. increase in benefit. On this occasion the widowed mother herself is getting a 12s. 6d. increase but each of her children is getting only a 2s. 6d. increase in benefit. Under our last increases the widowed mother with two children got a 20s. increase. Under the Bill she will get an increase of only 17s. 6d. Under us the widowed mother with three children got a 25s. increase. Under the Bill she will get an increase of only 20s. Under us the widowed mother with four children got a 30s. increase. Under the Bill she will get only a 22s. 6d. increase. Under us the increase in benefit for the widowed mother with five children—I have gone up to this level because I happen to have very much in mind a family of five small children I know whose mother cannot go out to work—would have been 35s. Under the Bill it is only 25s. We did, in fact, every time put the increased amount towards increased dependency allowances for the children, thus benefiting to a higher extent the widowed mother who could not go out to work. Under the Bill it is a little ironic that she has the least good bargain of all from all the increases that the right hon. Lady is proposing. I come to the present position with regard to widows' benefits. I agree entirely that under us it was anomalous. As I mentioned the other day, there was a difference already under us of £600 between what the 10s. widow could draw out of the scheme and what the no-shilling widow could, the 10s. widow being able to draw up to £600 more from the scheme than the no-shilling widow. I will make the point clear by an example. The differences emerge from two brides—one married at Easter, 1948, and the other married on August Bank Holiday, 1948, to men with identical insurance records. They are widowed this week at the age of, say, 36. Under the right hon. Lady's proposals the one married at Easter will be able to draw £1,800 more from the scheme than the one married on August Bank Holiday. I am a post-1948 bride, married to a “pre-1948” man, so if the worst came to the worst I would be a no-shilling [column 1326]widow, whereas many of my contemporaries, if the worst came to the worst, would be 10s. widows. A difference of £1,800 is an untenable difference, unless at the same time something else is to be done elsewhere in the scheme. These anomalies are again accentuated by the abolition of the earnings rule. I will take another example. A woman, who is widowed on her fiftieth birthday will now get widows' benefit regardless of how much she earns, and she will get it until she draws retirement pension, and she will not in fact have to pay any more contributions for retirement pension. The basis on which she will get that benefit at 50 is that she is deemed to be unable to go out to earn her own living, but she will get it regardless of how much she earns. But had she been widowed on the day before her fiftieth birthday, she would get nothing beyond the 13 weeks' resettlement benefit because she would be deemed to be able to earn her own living. She would get nothing even though she could not earn her own living. We therefore have an absolutely rigid boundary at the age of 50. [Interruption.] I hope the right hon. Lady will listen, because we did a great deal for widows, for example, widows and children. After the immediate increases three weeks before the 1951 election the allowance for children of widows was 10s. for the first child, 7s. 6d. for the second and 7s. 6d. for the third. When we left power this time, the allowance for each child was 37s. 6d. We did a great deal and the hon. Lady knows we did. I am on a fairly complicated and intricate point, and I believe that, however much one has done, there is not a time when one can ever say that one has finished, and there never will be such a time. At the moment, we are running for widows two quite different sorts of schemes, one based on benefit for the event of widowhood—that is the 10s. widow and now the over 50 widow—and the other based on benefit for the absence of earnings. That difference has been accentuated by the steps which the right hon. Lady has taken. I do not think that one can have two quite different bases for widow's benefit and say “We will leave the solution of this to a review.” The only thing to do to [column 1327]soften the age 50 line is to follow the precedent of the Industrial Injuries Scheme and have a lower rate of benefit equal to the 10s. widow's benefit for the woman who is widowed below the age of 50. Miss Herbison Why did not the hon. Lady do that? Mrs. Thatcher This is probably one of the things that I would have done. [Laughter.] The Department will be able to tell hon. Members opposite, and if the right hon. Lady asks she will find that I was extremely interested in widow's benefit and always concerned about the anomalies. She has put the matter over to a review. I think that she got the idea from us. I do not think that, having taken the actual steps that she has, she can leave the matter until a review. Mr. Eric Lubbock (Orpington) rose—— Mrs. Thatcher May I continue for a moment? The right hon. Lady was severe in her strictures about what happened after the 1956 National Insurance Advisory Committee review on the question of widows' benefits, when we introduced the change for the widowed mother from 40 to 50, on the recommendation of the National Insurance Advisory Committee, coupled with considerable other advantages in benefit to those widows. The right hon. Lady accused me of hypocrisy. But that change came before the House and the Labour Party did not vote against it. It accepted it, and, therefore, can only be taken to have concurred in the changes then made. Mr. Lubbock I wonder whether these criticisms that the hon. Lady was making of previous arrangements were in the Conservative election manifesto. Mrs. Thatcher I have a copy and if I can find it I will let the hon. Member have it. He will find a reference to a review of changes in widows' benefits. I am sorry that I cannot lay my hands on it at the moment, but there is such a reference in the manifesto. I now want to go on to another point, about timing. Miss Herbison The hon. Lady has made great play of this increase from 10s. [column 1328]to 30s. and suggests that we ought immediately to do something for the no-shilling widows. I suggest that her own Government made many more of those no-shilling widows and 10s. widows. Since she feels so strongly about this, will she put down an Amendment and back up the case, or will she oppose the regulations which will come before the House to raise the 10s. to 30s.? That would be the honest thing to do. Mrs. Thatcher I propose to put down an Amendment for the no-shilling widow. That is why I am giving so much notice now—[An Hon. Member: “Cynical.” ] It is not cynical. We, too, had considerable plans which we would have carried out had we got back into power. [Hon. Members: “Oh.” ] Of course we had very considerable plans. I would have looked forward to a period of five years of power, with a complete future of five years in front of one, when other considerable changes could have been made in the scheme similar to the considerable changes which were made in the previous 13 years. May I now continue? The right hon. Lady and the Joint Parliamentary Secretary are not being nearly as courteous to me as I was to them. May I now go on to the point about timing? When the right hon. Lady and her hon. Friends were in opposition I would have thought that, having studied pensions, they would have known most of the things about timing and the difficulty of giving increases which the right hon. Lady, very kindly and in great detail, told us today. Then they put forward a different solution which I have no doubt some of their back benchers will take up. They said, “If we accept that it takes a long time to make the increases, why can you not make some of the increases retrospectively?” The right hon. Lady herself on 28th January, 1963, said: I do not remember whether we voted on this, but the right hon. Lady herself suggested retrospective payment, and the [column 1329]right hon. Gentleman Douglas Houghton the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster supported her. If, having studied pensions closely, as she did, the right hon. Lady gives indications when in opposition of what she would do if she were in power, she cannot be dismayed if her own back-benchers now believe her. She, in fact, made a good deal of play of the excellent computer which we have at Newcastle. I hope that she will inquire further into the computers for the 10 centres throughout the country which were under way. The fact that they were under consideration was published in The Guardian on 6th May, 1963. I agree with the right hon. Lady that the factor which stops her and stopped us from increasing benefits in a shorter period is the time that it takes to deal with every single book individually; this must be done because that book relates to an individual record. It seems to me that this is one of the points which could quite well be considered by a major review of the social security schemes, but from our viewpoint we do not think that a major internal review would be enough. We agree that there should be another review of the social security provisions in this country. The Beveridge Report was brought out in relation to the conditions of the 1930s. Beveridge reported in about 1943. The White Paper was brought forward in 1944. The scheme came fully into operation and was heralded as a tremendous advance in 1948. It has, therefore, been in operation now for about 16 years. If we want to have major changes, it will take another four years or so to have big changes of the kind which the Beveridge Report itself proposed. We think, therefore, that there should be a major public review which can take evidence from interested bodies and that it should deal with many of the questions which we know are now raised. To some extent we have already departed from Beveridge in introducing a certain amount of wage relation, but there are other things absolutely basic to the Beveridge conception which people have never accepted. The earnings rule is one. That stems from the basis of State insurance—insurance for the absence of earnings. Whether that is an appropriate basis for insurance in the modern society is [column 1330]one question. Whether all benefits should merge together and we should have the same rate for sickness, unemployment, widows benefit or retirement benefit, or they should be separate as before Beveridge, is another question; Whether one should relate actual benefits to actual individual contribution records—it is that which causes the time factor now—or use contributions as a method of financing benefits, the benefits being universal but the contributions not necessarily related to them—these are some of the questions which should be dealt with in a review. This review should challenge the accepted principles then either reaffirm, adopt, or radically change them. Such a review should be instituted now. It should be undertaken, not as a departmental review, but by an outside body which can take evidence and publish its findings. I had intended to go into a number of miscellaneous points of detail. If the right hon. Lady is interested in the kind of approach I shall adopt in Committee I shall now mention some of the points I have put down to be considered further. The first one was under consideration at her instigation during my time in office. It is the death grant in respect of mentally handicapped children of over 19 years of age. We were considering making a dependent on the recipient being an insured person. Another thing I should like to have tackled is the six months' bar to benefit claims. If one does not claim benefit within six months there is an absolute bar to getting any benefit. It used to be three months, but now it is six months and I think that it should be longer. The theory about increments has always been that they should be related to the amount of pension forgone. We have had no increase in increments since 1959, although there have been two increases in pensions and there will now be a third. It is time that we increased the increments to give extra incentive to deferred retirement. The Government Actuary's Report on the Quinquennial Review records a trend towards earlier retirement, surprisingly, among men. We have to decide whether we want to reverse it. Increasing the increments would be a way of giving that extra incentive. I agree with what the right hon. Lady has done about maternity grant. I know [column 1331]the administrative problems of having a separate home confinement grant. Although that means that the woman who has her baby at home will get no increase in maternity benefit, I agree that it is right to have a single grant. I should have liked to have seen something done about disregards for National Assistance. They have not been moved since 1959: changes are not made as often as the scale rates are moved. I hope the right hon. Lady will bear that in mind when she is laying National Assistance regulations and increase the capital and income disregards. The earnings limit improved five times under our Government, but is not to be increased under the present Bill. Perhaps the right hon. Lady does not think the time is ripe for that, but at a time when increases in benefits are being justified by reference to average earnings, the same reasoning should apply also to raising the earnings rule. This is a point we shall have to consider in Committee. In spite of all my comments, criticisms and, I hope, some constructive suggestions, I congratulate the right hon. Lady on having the very pleasant duty of bringing forward a Bill which substantially increases benefit for many people who need increases. We shall help her as far as we can in speeding the Bill on its way and hope that it gets the Royal Assent as quickly as possible. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mrs margaret thatcher finchley unaccustomed opposition refer debate pension increase bill tory government present right hon member sowerby mr houghton cope situation dispatch box stand speech aspect express congratulation go commentary criticism finally constructive suggestion propose follow precedent set skilled opposition hope attain skill opposition follow right hon gentleman congratulate miss m herbisonthe right hon lady fortunate week ministry able bring forward increase pension benefit agree pleasant duty pass criticism commentary hope constructive suggestion want right hon lady debating point beginning speech fighting speech think fight point striking contrast present proposal happen tory government return power election immediately pension increase time increase pension election socialist government increase week election having leave untouched year increase restore level benefit position right hon lady come office different circumstance column swift increase past tory government increase increase deal happen parliament basis analogy right hon lady seek draw right hon lady say increase deny government mean pay presumably mean vote increase standard rate tax point occasion increase benefit increase standard rate tax standard rate hear nonsense inherit standard rate tax impose hugh gaitskellthe socialist chancellor exchequer manage pension increase time reduce standard rate income tax point right hon lady augur ill retirement pensioner say time increase pension standard rate tax petrol miss herbison hon lady tell tory government expect pay increase clear dependent cent increase production like know mrs thatcher speak bring trade trade economic situation different return power speak member merely sit bench opposite distribute money folk speak concern manufacturing retailing home export trade commend right hon lady difference general attitude take lord attlee past tory record right hon lady speak highly work beveridge committee entirely agree listen right hon lady think report entirely child labour party february lord attlee speak national insurance bill say column lord attlee prepared accurate honest magnanimous turn point commentary comparison rate benefit average earning retail price right hon lady considerable point say increase pension benefit lag earning take period agree period true rise increase average earning base year beginning stewardship tory government find reverse true brigadier terence clarke portsmouth west pensioner know mrs thatcher want right hon lady figure supply department leave october single rate pension introduce right hon ladys government cent average earning october end period labour government fall cent average earning situation inherit spite increase week october election period government april pension increase month stand cent average earning stewardship increase pension benefit express percentage average earning right hon ladys memorandum cmnd compliment signature performance year say figure concern position pass point test adequacy pension benefit rate right hon lady right hon friend opposition test rate compare average earning naturally expect look debate study amendment right hon friend forward notice february right hon friend move amendment increase level pension put forward test adequacy rate propose comparison average earning right hon gentleman mention accord research average earning manufacturing industry interesting opposition average earning propose rate pension average earning power propose increase proportionate increase average earning time chancellor duchy lancaster mr douglas houghton expect hon lady friend amendment improve benefit mrs thatcher believe behave opposition government believe have public auction pension right hon gentleman know time increase amendment bid high increase increase time amendment increase shall behave way believe shall soon new government people judge say opposition right hon lady find expect power column say opposition turn reference increase refer propose right hon member sowerby single person propose propose married couple propose right hon lady say restore rate benefit presumably require believe say memorandum page go paragraph late march say restore require expect great rise cost live end march say memorandum publish late friday morning minute past march require increase way figure postulate increase index price point right hon lady extremely honest case congratulate remember go early debate labour government fix pension increase fix term february statement house effect reason labour government increase coalition government proposal single marry single marry basis hugh daltonthe labour chancellor exchequer hold cost live cent september level happen cost living rise unprecedented rate rise cent cent column year labour government rule cent year time benefit eat away increase pension week election traditional indicator come point raise right hon lady contribution taxation deal hon member opposite say taxation connection shy away fact increase pension benefit increase contribution government dispatch box try urge hon member opposite house try convey impression large increase benefit ordinary people pay increase contribution absolutely clear record matter total weekly stamp go greatly cost basic rate participate scheme contract think worth mention participate scheme average earning cost weekly stamp go barrier average earning cost weekly stamp earn week clear record contribution hon member opposite acid increase flatrate contribution right hon member coventry east mr crossman report official report january say wonder right hon lady today understand duty fact put increase place basic column subject comment hon member opposite say exchequer bear large proportion contribution understand exchequer contribution unchanged provision bill hon member opposite time bring face face reality power face bench prepared look scheme sound financial basis instead concerned outbid regardless consequence right hon lady strong stricture graduate scheme surprised equally strong stricture scheme party political broadcast think thoroughly mislead sentence shall quote october light programme party political broadcast behalf labour party right hon lady say bit want comment misleading statement imagine rest government money collect grade pension right hon lady know single penny go meet pension benefit pay national insurance broadcast deliberately choose use phrase spend meet government bill speech today surprised way turn taxation right hon lady accuse hypocrisy wish people accusation cast mote eye talk contribution taxation means finance scheme right hon member sowerby point election address chairman column public account committee broadcaster help labour expert taxation finance pension writeup lefthand election address taxation social service say lefthand say douglas houghton box immediately integrity vision knowledge experience pay right hon gentleman compliment read election address elector know believe bitterly disappoint labour government increase taxation pledge right hon gentleman labour expert taxation pension give glee trot come right hon friend come mr houghton write realisation depth deception discover economic political record hon ladys party mrs thatcher nonsense right hon gentleman quotation taxation come guardian october article page entitle nursery economic mr callaghan mr maudling s figure screwy subheading say point present chancellor say think mean imply taxation increase main point interconnection relation national insurance national assistance propaganda national income guarantee time sit government bench hon member column get say scandalous people national assistance number national assistance depend rate government increase assistance scale rate easily cut number national assistance put pension scale rate right hon lady choose time present government opposition build thorough objection national assistance help implant objection mind people kind language quote election forum september terminology harold wilsonthe present prime minister say terminology right hon gentleman instead drive national assistance broadcast october right hon gentleman say right hon lady talk people abandon national assistance breath talk try increase people standard live increase national assistance scale talk breath abandon national assistance national assistance wonderful instrument personally mind call national assistance call basic standard live call basic income instrument use meet variation individual need instead denigrate column assistance people urge advantage constituent think build present reluctance tell exist go labour propaganda broadcast new britain election address lead believe priority introduction income guarantee scheme lead believe ready long time beginning new britain say prime minister indicate national income guarantee thing wait page new britain state exception introduction income guarantee go immediately come immediately reason expect right hon gentleman knowledge know introduce scheme complexity immediately year know considerable difficulty form plan propose come immediately come immediately point test adequacy pension benefit rule right hon gentleman debate say test adequacy pension benefit compare national assistance say criterion adequacy national assistance scale rate add national assistance average rent let test scale test present rate adequate present national assistance rate present national assistance average rent column right hon gentleman stand scale criticise dispatch box government bench introduce pension benefit test go adopt tactic test adequacy benefit test mean single rate mr houghton rise mrs thatcher right hon gentleman wind debate tonight give way good deal interrupt right hon lady speech house see read mr sydney silverman nelson colne hon lady say increase pension pay immediately agree painfully obvious administration hon lady distinguished member intend raise pension preparation hand tail end session difficulty pay immediately year mrs thatcher hon gentleman right beam talk timing increase retirement pension talk introduction national income guarantee entirely different point national insurance understand basic universal scheme magic average get return actual contribution begin cater different individual need national assistance hand cater individual need variation movement believe side house try reasoning believe reasoning hon member opposite circumstance cater national insurance present national assistance present example people qualify help national assistance need help column suffer permanent illness like disseminate sclerosis poliomyelitis chronically sick national insurance benefit tackle problem try urge increasingly selective benefit right hon lady remember bill labour party think line amendment constant attendance allowance thing chronically sick grapple problem summer hope right hon lady continue grapple leave find answer extremely difficult interruption wish right hon lady jump bitter conclusion try tell extremely difficult define chronically sick know want benefit extremely difficult legislation system administratively equitable capable insurance basis know amendment past table labour party right hon lady agree people chronically sick cater adequately scheme believe side house try try find solution problem day right hon lady statement house point like return concern increase amount child dependent new increase benefit announce hitherto pride country scheme give preference family man preference give continent continental scheme base earning take benefit percentage earning regardless family commitment beneficiary interest percentage earning see family commitment meet national column increase benefit proportion increase family commitment propose increase single rate married rate increase respect child see right hon ladys initial proposal detailed expect increase dependency benefit respect child fact choose maximum advantage increase benefit single man married couple advantage decrease proportionately size family increase surprised tremendous commentary sociologist effect large family low standard live comparatively increase family allowance need dependency allowance cope increase family allowance completely nonselective bring extra help people need way family allowance increase sick unemployed increase dependency benefit definition child people ill unemployed expect right hon lady give large dependency increase respect child give particularly mark case widow mother admit abolish earning rule widow mother widow right hon lady great deal widow go work widow mother earn week widow earn week right hon ladys record good respect widow mother work stay home look child affect abolition earning rule time come take advice national insurance advisory committee increase benefit payable child column subject earning rule occasion widow get increase benefit child get increase benefit occasion widow mother get increase child get increase benefit increase widow mother child get increase bill increase widow mother child get increase bill increase widow mother child get increase bill increase increase benefit widow mother child go level happen mind family small child know mother work bill fact time increase increase dependency allowance child benefit high extent widow mother work bill little ironic good bargain increase right hon lady propose come present position regard widow benefit agree entirely anomalous mention day difference widow draw scheme noshille widow widow able draw scheme noshilling widow point clear example difference emerge bride marry easter marry august bank holiday man identical insurance record widow week age right hon ladys proposal marry easter able draw scheme marry august bank holiday bride marry man bad come bad noshilling column contemporary bad come bad widow difference untenable difference time scheme anomaly accentuate abolition earning rule example woman widow fiftieth birthday widow benefit regardless earn draw retirement pension fact pay contribution retirement pension basis benefit deem unable earn living regardless earn widow day fiftieth birthday week resettlement benefit deem able earn living earn living absolutely rigid boundary age interruption hope right hon lady listen great deal widow example widow child immediate increase week election allowance child widow child second leave power time allowance child great deal hon lady know fairly complicated intricate point believe time finish time moment run widow different sort scheme base benefit event widowhood widow widow base benefit absence earning difference accentuate step right hon lady take think different basis widow benefit leave solution review thing column age line follow precedent industrial injury scheme low rate benefit equal widow benefit woman widow age miss herbison hon lady mrs thatcher probably thing laughter department able tell hon member opposite right hon lady ask find extremely interested widow benefit concerned anomaly matter review think get idea think having take actual step leave matter review mr eric lubbock orpington rise mrs thatcher continue moment right hon lady severe stricture happen national insurance advisory committee review question widow benefit introduce change widow mother recommendation national insurance advisory committee couple considerable advantage benefit widow right hon lady accuse hypocrisy change come house labour party vote accept take concur change mr lubbock wonder criticism hon lady make previous arrangement conservative election manifesto mrs thatcher copy find let hon member find reference review change widow benefit sorry lay hand moment reference manifesto want point time miss herbison hon lady great play increase column suggest ought immediately noshilling widow suggest government noshilling widow widow feel strongly amendment case oppose regulation come house raise honest thing mrs thatcher propose amendment noshilling widow give notice hon member cynical cynical considerable plan carry get power hon member oh course considerable plan look forward period year power complete future year considerable change scheme similar considerable change previous year continue right hon lady joint parliamentary secretary nearly courteous point timing right hon lady hon friend opposition think having study pension know thing timing difficulty give increase right hon lady kindly great detail tell today forward different solution doubt bencher say accept take long time increase increase retrospectively right hon lady january say remember vote right hon lady suggest retrospective payment column hon gentleman douglas houghton chancellor duchy lancaster support having study pension closely right hon lady give indication opposition power dismay backbencher believe fact good deal play excellent computer newcastle hope inquire computer centre country way fact consideration publish guardian agree right hon lady factor stop stop increase benefit short period time take deal single book individually book relate individual record point consider major review social security scheme viewpoint think major internal review agree review social security provision country beveridge report bring relation condition beveridge report white paper bring forward scheme come fully operation herald tremendous advance operation year want major change year big change kind beveridge report propose think major public review evidence interested body deal question know raise extent depart beveridge introduce certain wage relation thing absolutely basic beveridge conception people accept earning rule stem basis state insurance insurance absence earning appropriate basis insurance modern society column question benefit merge rate sickness unemployment widow benefit retirement benefit separate beveridge question relate actual benefit actual individual contribution record cause time factor use contribution method financing benefit benefit universal contribution necessarily relate question deal review review challenge accept principle reaffirm adopt radically change review institute undertake departmental review outside body evidence publish finding intend number miscellaneous point detail right hon lady interested kind approach shall adopt committee shall mention point consider consideration instigation time office death grant respect mentally handicapped child year age consider make dependent recipient insured person thing like tackle month bar benefit claim claim benefit month absolute bar get benefit month month think long theory increment relate pension forgone increase increment increase pension time increase increment extra incentive defer retirement government actuary report quinquennial review record trend early retirement surprisingly man decide want reverse increase increment way give extra incentive agree right hon lady maternity grant know column administrative problem have separate home confinement grant mean woman baby home increase maternity benefit agree right single grant like see disregard national assistance move change scale rate move hope right hon lady bear mind lay national assistance regulation increase capital income disregard earning limit improve time government increase present bill right hon lady think time ripe time increase benefit justify reference average earning reasoning apply raise earning rule point shall consider committee spite comment criticism hope constructive suggestion congratulate right hon lady have pleasant duty bring forward bill substantially increase benefit people need increase shall help far speed bill way hope get royal assent quickly possible copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill establishes the Interagency Working Group on Coastal Blue Carbon to (1) assess the impediments to the conservation and restoration of coastal blue carbon ecosystems, and (2) establish national conservation and restoration priorities regarding these areas. Coastal blue carbon ecosystems are vegetated coastal habitats and include mangroves, tidal marshes, and other tidal, freshwater, or saltwater wetlands that have the ability to sequester and store carbon.

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bill establish interagency work group coastal blue carbon assess impediment conservation restoration coastal blue carbon ecosystem establish national conservation restoration priority area coastal blue carbon ecosystem vegetate coastal habitat include mangrove tidal marsh tidal freshwater saltwater wetland ability sequester store carbon

This bill establishes a variety of incentives and programs to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from the power sector, including incentives and programs to (1) develop low- and zero-carbon power technologies (e.g., technologies to capture, use, and store carbon from coal and natural gas); (2) support certain renewable energy, energy-efficiency, energy storage, and clean electricity technologies; and (3) support nuclear energy.

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bill establish variety incentive program reduce carbon dioxide emission power sector include incentive program develop low zerocarbon power technology eg technology capture use store carbon coal natural gas support certain renewable energy energyefficiency energy storage clean electricity technology support nuclear energy

Speeches, etc. “The Budget once again is an austerity budget. For a long time past Conservatives have been advocating the need for a reduction in taxes, and it is no mere election stunt. This country has stood austerity for a long time and been very heroic about it, but heroism is an expendable asset and cannot go on for ever.” So said Miss Margaret Roberts, B.A., B.Sc., prospective Conservative candidate, speaking at a luncheon arranged by Dartford Division Women Conservatives at Electricity House, Erith, on Thursday last week. She added that in the Budget the human factor had been forgotten. Mrs. G. W. R. Fletcher was in the chair, and with her were Mrs. Morris Wheeler (president) and members of the association executive, also Messrs. J. W. Panton (vice-president), J. M. L. Miller (chairman) and Hugh Goff (vice-chairman) of the Divisional Association. It was a great occasion for the women's organisation, said the chairman, as not only were they meeting their newly-adopted candidate ( “I am sure you all agree we have made a very wise choice” ), but also their newly-elected president. Having congratulated the chairman and her helpers on the success of the luncheon, which was attended by representatives of the various branches in the Division, Miss Roberts expressed her determination of getting to know members individually and was certain they would meet her half-way. Recalling the days of “V” bombs and rockets and the way in which people stood up to them, Miss Roberts said it was the same with austerity. It could not go on for ever, and Sir Stafford Cripps was just looking at the facts and figures; failing to take into account the human beings and human factors behind those facts and figures. Production was not only a matter of “man hours,” but of men and women being encouraged by words of praise when needed. A few days ago a student said to her: “We look at things these days with too much superficial abstraction.” That was true. Looking at people, they viewed them as “youth,” or as “men” or “women” —as a word and not as human beings. That was precisely what was bound to happen under nationalised planning, with the “pigeonhole mind” in command, able to move men from one mine or one factory to another if production fell off, as if 100 men were just one mass. Sir Stafford CrippsThe Chancellor had said he could not reduce the Budget under the present rate of expenditure. Maybe that was so, but why not reduce expenditure? The speaker instanced the size of administrative staffs. “These staffs are paid by, you and me; paid to tell us what we are to do. We must be careful what orders we take from them.” She then referred to various items which had involved the country in loss. Bulk buying could be cut, saving millions of pounds, and so reduce taxation, thus putting extra money into people's pockets, encouraging them to work harder and so produce more goods. An instance of an administrative mistake was the sending of ships to Archangel to ship timber, but the ships were too large to enter the port and had to return under ballast. Private enterprise might make mistakes but if it did the cost was borne by the people making the mistake and not by the taxpayers as a whole. In 1938 the Board of Trade received 45,000 letters a month, but now it was 1,250,000, a large proportion of which referred to permits and licences. It was true the Harold WilsonPresident of the Board had made an attempt to cut controls, but it was quite impossible for one man to do all the pruning. Mr. Strachey bought potatoes when the country did not need them and that cost £10,000,000, which was half the subsidy, hence people now had to pay more for their butter and cheese as a result of that blunder. Miss Roberts also referred to the ground nuts scheme in Central Africa, when-all the time ground nuts were going to waste in West Africa. Having instanced other examples of waste, she said she was convinced the Government could cut down extravagant expenses if they had the will to do so. Miss Roberts was thanked by Messrs. Panton and Miller, the former urging members to help Miss Roberts to become known in the Division; the latter saying it was not a question of whether Miss Roberts was worthy of them, but whether they were worthy of Miss Roberts. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc budget austerity budget long time past conservative advocate need reduction taxis mere election stunt country stand austerity long time heroic heroism expendable asset say miss margaret roberts ba bsc prospective conservative candidate speak luncheon arrange dartford division woman conservative electricity house erith thursday week add budget human factor forget mrs g w r fletcher chair mrs morris wheeler president member association executive messrs j w panton vicepresident j m l miller chairman hugh goff vicechairman divisional association great occasion women organisation say chairman meet newlyadopted candidate sure agree wise choice newlyelected president having congratulate chairman helper success luncheon attend representative branch division miss robert express determination get know member individually certain meet halfway recall day v bomb rocket way people stand miss robert say austerity sir stafford cripps look fact figure fail account human being human factor fact figure production matter man hour man woman encourage word praise need day ago student say look thing day superficial abstraction true look people view youth man woman word human being precisely bind happen nationalise planning pigeonhole mind command able man factory production fall man mass sir stafford crippsthe chancellor say reduce budget present rate expenditure maybe reduce expenditure speaker instance size administrative staff staff pay pay tell careful order refer item involve country loss bulk buying cut save million pound reduce taxation put extra money people pocket encourage work hard produce good instance administrative mistake sending ship archangel ship timber ship large enter port return ballast private enterprise mistake cost bear people make mistake taxpayer board trade receive letter month large proportion refer permit licence true harold wilsonpresident board attempt cut control impossible man pruning mr strachey buy potato country need cost half subsidy people pay butter cheese result blunder miss roberts refer ground nuts scheme central africa whenall time ground nut go waste west africa having instance example waste say convince government cut extravagant expense miss robert thank messrs panton miller urge member help miss robert know division say question miss roberts worthy worthy miss roberts copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Ep. 1713 - BREAKING: Tucker Carlson OUT At Fox News Published: 4/25/2023 (in RSS feed: 52m 58s) As a person with a very deep voice. I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns, but a deep voice doesn't sell B2B and advertising on the wrong platform doesn't sell B2B either. That's why if you're a B2B marketer, you should use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has the targeting capabilities to help you reach the world's largest professional audience. That's right. Over 70 million decision makers all in one place, all the big wigs. Then medium wigs, also small wigs who are on the path to becoming big wigs. Okay, that's enough about wigs. LinkedIn ads allows you to focus on getting your B2B message to the right people. So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest voice in the world? Yes. Yes, it does. Get started today and see why LinkedIn is the place to be to be. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply Fox News fires, Tucker Carlson, CNN fires, Don Lemon and Susan. Rice is out at the White House. I'm BEN SHAPIRO. This is The Ben. Shapiro Show. Today's show is sponsored by ExpressVPN. Thousands of my listeners have already secured their network data. Join them at ExpressVPN dot com slash Ben. Well, it is the biggest media news of the last decade. Tucker Carlson has been apparently fired by Fox News, the statement that was originally put out by Fox News Media suggested in agreement to part ways, but we can all tell that that is not exactly what happened. According to Fox News, quote, Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to power ways. We thank him for his service to the network as a host. And prior to that, as a contributor, Mr. Carlson's last program was Friday, April 21st. Fox News tonight will Air live at 8:00 PM Eastern starting this evening as an interim show held by a rotating Fox news personalities crew. Until a new host is named, it's it's earth shattering in media terms, it is enormous. Tucker is the biggest cable host on tv. He's had 3 million viewers a night. According to the latest ratings, the market immediately responded by not liking what happened. Very much so. The Fox News stock took a serious dive. It went from approximately 33 50 a share all the way down to about 31 50 a share. So it lost like a couple of bucks in share price, which was, you know, when you aggregate it, $690 million in value, not regained a lot of that by the end of trading, but it just shows you that Tucker meant a lot to the network in terms of the actual value of the network. Tucker obviously did not see it coming. So any talk that this was some sort of planned arrangement between Tucker Carlson and Fox News that he was ready to go with, for example, another media outlet, or that he was readying a presidential run that's appears to be beli by the simple fact that on Friday Tucker literally said, we'll see you here on Monday. And what we are hearing from people who are in the know is that Tucker was prepping his show as of Monday morning, getting ready for Monday night when the news came down that he had been summarily fired from Fox News. Here are the last moments of Tucker's show, apparently forever on Friday from Fox News, Tyler Burrell joins us in studio. He will deliver literally anywhere. Tyler, it's so, got a couple pies for you. Great to meet you in person. A couple cocoa's pies. So we add, these are from Coco's established 1978. This is sausage, that's sausage and pineapple. And really quick as a pizza professional, do you look down on this order? Is this I do. I think that I, I consider a criminal. I knew you did. I used, that's it for us for the week. We'll be back, by the way, the entire episode of Let Them Eat Bugs, not quite as good as pizza streaming now on Fox Nation. Use promo code originals for 30 days free and we'll be back on Monday. In the meantime, have the best weekend with the ones that you love. That was the end of Tucker Carlson show. So first of all, I mean you can, you can see Tucker a really, really good and talented broadcaster, very exciting to watch on air, really upbeat and interesting very often, but capable of doing anger in a way that pretty much no one else in the media is capable of doing it. This is why he was so beloved by his fans. And again, he's not dead. He's gonna come back in some other form and he's going to be wildly successful when he does. He's an incredibly talented person. But this of course raises questions as to why exactly he was ousted. When Fox News covered the Ouster. They basically just read the statement on the air. Here was Harris Faulkner doing that? We have some news from within our Fox family. Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have mutually agreed to part Ways. Tucker's last show was this past Friday and starting tonight, Fox News tonight will air live at 8:00 PM Eastern. It will be an interim show with rotating Fox news personalities until a new host is named. We wanna thank Tucker Carlson for his service to the network as a host, and prior to that as a long-term contributor. And that was the entirety of Fox News's coverage of the issue when it first broke. This follows hard on Tucker giving what was a pretty spectacular address to the Heritage Foundation on Sunday night. Again, no imp no indication that he knew what was coming on Monday. And again, it's Tucker's Stark ability to, to characterize the difference between good and evil in politics that's made him so wildly popular with his audience. Here was some of his Speech to Heritage Foundation. I, I know somebody who was in the room during the speech that was from the best after dinner speeches they'd ever seen here was Tucker on Sunday night. So when I started at Heritage, the presumption was, and this is a very Anglo-American assumption that the debates we're having are kind of rational debates about the way to get to mutually agreed upon outcomes. If, you have people who are saying, I have an idea, let's castrate the next generation. Let's sexually mutilate children. Sorry, that's not a political debate. What? There's nothing to do with politics. What's the outcome we're desiring here? If. you say, well, you know, I think abortion is always bad. Well, I think sometimes it's necessary. That's a debate I'm familiar with. But if you're telling me that abortion is a positive good, what are you saying? Well, you're arguing for child sacrifice. Obviously, when people or crowds of people, or the largest crowd of people at all, which is the federal government, the largest human organization in human history, decide that the goal is to destroy things, destruction for its own sake. Hey, let's tear it down. What you're watching is not a political movement, it's evil. Again, it was Tucker's ability to characterize good and evil that made him so wildly popular. As I say before, Tucker is really, really talented. He's gonna land on his feet somewhere and maybe it'll be at a place that you've heard of. Maybe it'll be a place that you haven't. Whatever it is that that comes next, Tucker is gonna be successful at it because again, he's a very, very talented guy with a large crowd of people who really like him. But this all requires us to ask the question, why did this happen? That's particularly true given the fact that he re-upped with the network back in February of 2021. According to Deadline Hollywood, this is February, 2021. There's a lot more Tucker Carlson coming. The top rated Fox News channel host has just signed a new multi-year deal to bolster sister streaming service Fox Nation with a video podcast series and Tucker Carlson specials, literally and figuratively. Bring the Big dog two, just over 2-year-old streamer Carlson will drop a true of new shows every week. Umbrella company, Fox News Media said on Wednesday, and this was again, a multi-year contract that was designed to allow Tucker to expand his footprint, not just to the, to the network itself, but also to the streaming platform that was Fox Nation. So what exactly happened because he's still under contract and then he was summarily fired. I mean, that is pretty clearly what happened here. We'll get to the actual details of the firing and what may have laid behind it in just one moment. First, you know all about the big cell phone wireless companies out there. 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Pure talk's us customer service team helped me make the switch in as little as 10 minutes I was even able to keep my phone number. Not only will you save money, you also get the satisfaction knowing you're supporting a great American company. CEO and Chairman of Pure Talk is a US military veteran. When you become a Pure Talk customer, you're given that option to support America's Warrior partnership. Go to Pure Talk dot com, enter promo code SHAPIRO. Save 50% off your very first month of coverage. That's Pure Talk dot com promo code Shapiro Pure Talk is simply smarter wireless. We get to more on this in a moment. First, despite the anticipated rate cuts by financial experts, inflation continues to rise. The US is grappling with a staggering debt of $34 trillion and yet we continue to print even more money and that's gonna continue for years to come. You can bury your head in the sand or you can do something about it. Consider diversifying at least some of your savings into gold. 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Theory number one is that Tucker was basically ousted as a consequence of the Dominion lawsuit. This is the theory of the Washington Post. The Washington Post says Carlson's private messages were among hundreds of internal communications made public in the course of the Dominion lawsuit that caused s and embarrassment for Fox and heightened the company's legal jeopardy, Fox ultimately agreed to pay Dominion $800 million or so. Among other comments, Carlson expressed skepticism of the election fraud claims made on air by attorneys affiliated with President Trump and declared that he passionately hates the former president whose rise to power had been cheered by Fox in order to avoid people like Tucker having to testify or judge Janine having to testify, or a wide variety of other Fox news host having to testify Fox News instead decided to, and this would be Rupert Murdoch decided to sign an $800 million check to Dominion. But according to the Washington Post, it wasn't those comments that were so bothersome. It was Carlson's comments about Fox management as revealed in the Dominion case that played a role in his departure from Fox according to a person familiar with the company's thinking. Quote, do the executives understand how much credibility and trust we've lost with our audience? Carlson wrote to a colleague in a message a day after Fox, like if the other media outlet called the election for Joe Biden. This is a sentiment echoed by others at Fox in the fall of 2020. As even network officials who disbelieved Trump's election fraud conspiracy theories, Fred, the countering them strongly would alienate their conservative viewers. So in other words, a lot of the Fox news executives were looking at the fact that Tucker really didn't believe a lot of the things that were being alleged by Sidney Powell and Trump's legal team, but also was deeply worried about how that was going to play what the Fox news audience and all that had now come out. In another message, Carlson referred to management with an expletive quote. Those efforts are destroying our credibility. He later wrote a combination of incompetent liberals and top leadership with too much pride to back down is what is happening. Carlson did not have a farewell show obviously. So this is theory number one is that this was the natural after effect of the Dominion lawsuit that basically everybody who is involved in any sort of of credibility giving to the election fraud narrative is now going to be on the line. And to back that theory you have the fact that Fox News also parted ways with Dan Bonino just last week. And Dan Bonino, of course, had been very vocal in his support, not only for President Trump, but also had wanted to do an interview a couple of years ago in which Trump actually aired his grievances about the election. The Fox News brass cut the interview and Dan actually went on the air and he said, you shouldn't cut the interview with the former president of the United States. He's the former president of the United States. It was just a few days ago that Fox News parted ways with Ban Gino. So it's hard not to see Carlson's Ouster in the context of of Dan Bonino also being ousted as of last week. Now, that's not the only possible theory. Theory number two is that there are ancillary issues that we actually are only now becoming aware of. According to the Los Angeles Times, and this would've been Steve Bat reporting as a staff writer over there, people familiar with the situation who are not authorized to comment publicly said the decision to fire Carlson came straight from the top, from Rupert Murdoch directly. Carlson's exit is related according to them, to the discrimination lawsuit filed by Abby Grossberg. There's another lawsuit that has been on the books. She's a producer fired by the network last month. According to cer, certain people, Carlson senior executive producer Justin Wells, has also been terminated according to people familiar with the matter. So what exactly was in that particular lawsuit? A bunch of allegations were in that particular lawsuit, none of them, particularly pretty according to Yahoo News just about a month ago, that discrimination lawsuit included allegations that constant bullying and gaslighting caused the producer so much stress and anxiety. Her stomach ulcers flared up and she was in excruciating pain and that she'd been discriminated against based on gender, religion, and disability discovery may have uncovered other ugly messages. Perhaps maybe this is what Fox News was worried about. The network said in a statement, Fox News Media engaged in independent outside counsel to immediately investigate the concerns raised by Ms. Grossberg, which were made following a critical performance review. Gross Book's complaint contains allegations that Fox's lawyers pressured her to provide misleading testimony in the Dominion claim. In the dominion voting claim. Fox News says her allegations in connection with the Dominion case are baseless, we'll vigorously defend Fox against all of her legal claims which have no merit. So again, the allegation here is that a former Tucker producer was alleging antisemitism and sexism and maybe this had some legal ramifications. So that is theory number two is that it was sort of ancillary issues that producer's lawsuit. Another possibility was that the network was very upset with the possibility of additional legal liability created. They think by Tucker Carlson. for example, Ray ept, who you'll recall from Tucker's show, he was a Texas man who the day before the, the actual storming of the Capitol building urged people to enter the Capitol building that a lot of people on the right have suggested that he was some sort of FBI plant. And PPS was interviewed Sunday in 60 Minutes. He, he suggested that Tucker had had targeted him. Maybe Fox News didn't wanna be hit with another lawsuit That's quite possible after Hing suffered an $800 million settlement, which is actually the largest media settlement in American history so far as we are aware again that that is a possibility as well. There's also talk about the possibility that the network was upset about Tucker's coverage of January 6th. Tucker had done a a special, not all that long ago, we covered some of Tucker's allegations in the special, for example, the fact that the, the so-called Buffalo Horned Man, what, whatever his name was, Q Anon shaman, that he was walking around the building shadowed by a bunch of cops. And that looked kind of different than the idea that he was kind of running around the building, threatening people physically and all of this. And Tucker had sort of downplayed the nature of January 6th. Maybe the, maybe the brass didn't like that very much, but what this all comes down to is it looks as though Fox news is quote unquote cleaning house. And that can be, you know, for bad. There are a lot of people who not only love Tucker, but also think that Tucker says things that other people won't, which is true. Tucker does say things that other people won't. You can see a fundamental divide has emerged obviously inside the Fox Corporation. And that was pretty clear from what members of the Fox News Brass were saying during election 2020. There's a pretty clear divide between some of the top brass, that'd be Rupert Murdoch, maybe Lachlan Murdoch, Paul Ryan via Den, some, some of the other people who are sort of at the top of the, of the Fox brass and some of the other people who are, who are again near the top more sympathetic to the perspectives of the hoes who, for example, did not want Arizona called in favor of Joe Biden. That had been Suzanne Scott and Jay Wallace, for example. We'll get to that momentarily first. In the past year, Israel has faced over 5,000 terror attacks. There's won just yesterday in Jerusalem 28, Israelis have lost their lives. Hundreds of others have been injured. This has extreme emotional and psychological impacts on family, friends, and neighbors. One person who knows this very well is David Rubin. David and his young son were wounded in a terror attack. 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It's a wonderful time to give If you care about Israel In one particular story, Shilo Israel's Children's Fund save the marriage of a couple who lost their child to a terror attack. They're doing amazing work. Head on over to Israel childrens.org/ee, what it takes to save the life of a terror stricken child in Israel's Biblical Heartland. You won't believe how easy it is to give children a brighter future. That's Israel children.org/ Ben. Okay, so If, you look back at the text of the various members of sort of the Fox News brass. They had very different opinions on sort of what was happening in 2020 and a lot of what teams like happened with Tucker on Monday morning. Seems like there was a, it was fallout from 2020, just late and as a result of the Dominion judgment. So for example, If, you look at the text of Rupert Murdoch at the time, he, he texted Suzanne Scott, who's the CEO of Fox News, January 21st, 2021 saying, still getting mud thrown to us. Maybe Sean and Laura went too far. All very well for Sean to tell you who's in despair about Trump. But what did he tell his viewers? So Murdoch apparently was not happy with the behavior of some of the hosts with regards to the division between what they were saying to the viewers and what they were saying sort of behind the scenes. Lachlan Murdoch, who is the Fox core CEO and, and Rupert, Sonny said, news guys have to be careful how they cover this rally. The narrative, should this be, should be. This is a huge celebration of the President. That that was a message that he sent to Suzanne Scott, November 14th, 2020, about coverage of a Trump rally in which two Fox journalists had contradicted election fraud claims. Paul Ryan also suggested that the 2020 election coverage was an inflection point for the company and a chance for people to tell the truth about what they actually thought about the election fraud claims. Meanwhile, Suzanne Scott took the position that there were reporters who had not gone along with some of the election fraud claims and, and that she was skeptical that this would not harm them with the audience. What I can't keep defending these reporters who don't understand our viewers and how to handle stories. The audience feels like we've crapped on them, we've damaged their trust and believe in us. We can fix this, but we can't smirk at our viewers any longer. So, you know, again, there's all this sort of back and forth inside the network and you can see the various points of view that we're taking shape. And Tucker was at the center of that because at the same time that he said, quote, we are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights this January 4th, 2021. I truly can't wait. At the same time, he was obviously giving a lot of airtime to members of Trump's campaign, including people like Sidney Powell. Now, again, you can, it was a very confused time. Fox didn't take a particularly strong line as to what it wished to see said and what it didn't wish to see said. Bottom line is that it's, it's unclear right now whether this is simply a matter of Tucker Carlson or whether Fox News is attempting to draw some new lines about how they covered the issues, whatever the case may be. And again, I think all of these points of view are arguable, whatever the case may be, Tucker was a major asset to Fox News. It's not gonna be so easy to fill that time slot. That is a very difficult time slot to fill again, who's the number one host in prime time for Fox News? Now there are people who are immediately chortling over the impact of this. The New York Times has been tling over the impact of this suggesting that Fox News is in serious trouble or the Tuckers in serious trouble. The truth is both will go on to success in their various areas of endeavor. This is not the first rodeo for Fox news. Fox News fired Bill O'Reilly back when he had about 3.7 million viewers a night Tucker has about 2.9 million viewers a night. Bill O'Reilly went on to make a lot of money and other endeavors and Fox News went on to, you know, continue to be wildly successful. Fox News has parted ways in the past with some friends of mine. People like Glenn Beck, people like Megan Kelly, you know, again, those are all business decisions. And Fox News went on to continue to have wide ranging viewership. But you can see a lot of people, of course, very angry and very upset about Tucker Carlson being ousted from Fox News. And that is a direct response to the fact that Tucker, again is an incredibly compelling performer. He's somebody who has a unique point of view on politics, and I don't agree with Tucker a lot. There are times I've talked about on the show where I strenuously disagree with Tucker If. you wanna see some other times where I strenuously disagree with Tucker. All you have to do is watch the Sunday special episode I did with him where you disagreed on everything from foreign policy to government, inter government interventionism in the American economy. He, for example, thinks the government should intervene strongly in the American economy, give subsidies, prevent technological developments in order to preserve certain types of jobs. I don't think that, but whatever Tucker is, he's certainly a compelling presence and he does, when it comes to social issues, particularly have an extraordinary amount of moral clarity. And it'll be interesting to see how Fox News tries to house. They, they try to fill that gap. So when I say that the left is celebrating Tucker Carlson being fired from Fox News, I mean literally celebrating by doing the wave. So the intellectual luminaries over at the view led the charge here. Again, combined IQ lower than the pen I currently hold in my hand. If it were possible to have negative IQ points, the view would somehow achieve that signal feat here. Here's what it looked like on the view when they found out the Tucker had been let go. Word has just come down that Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to part ways Thank you for service to the network and host the fire contributor wave. Now they're doing the wave, they're literally doing the wave right now. That's the first time some of these people have stood up in at least 11 years. So that is very exciting. So yeah, great, great stuff there from, from those people. By the way, they're very excited about a network they never watch. They're really, really excited about, like if somebody got fired on MSN BBC, a network I never watch, I wouldn't be like, oh my God, that's amazing. I'd be like, I never watch that network. I don't care. It just shows how much the left is like bewildered and confused and upset by the presence of an alternative point of view. Like Fox News in the first place. And certainly Tucker CNN of course, was very excited about all of this. CNN Oliver Darcy, he, he says that the reason that Tucker was fired is because he was leading them in an extremist direction, which of course was always gonna be CNN's line on this. This raises a lot of questions about whether the network potentially is trying to at least reign in some of the more extreme people on the channel. I mean, of course, Tucker Carlson the most extreme probably on that channel. I should also note, John, why this is so important. I mean, Tucker Carlson, outside Donald Trump really was the person commanding the GOP really directing it. You saw Republican lawmakers, prominent Republican lawmakers, often grovel at his feet. Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz for instance, grovel at his feet and others because they were afraid of, of him going on his primetime show and lashing out at them. So this is not only huge news in the world of media, but also in the world of politics where he was really pushing the GOP in that extremist Direction. And Tucker is not gonna go away here despite CNN really reveling in all of this. Tucker's not gonna go away. I mean, there were immediate rumors that Tucker might run for president. Now I think that that is a, I think that that that is a very sketchy rumor given the fact that that, again, Tucker Carlson tends to be a private person. He's somebody who really enjoys his private life and he doesn't wanna see that up on a screen. I'm not sure that he wants to go head to head with Donald Trump, a man who has no limits when it comes to attacking his political opponents. But it is galling to watch the members of the left wing media who've been wildly dishonest for years about Trump, about Tucker, about pretty much everybody now kind of reveling in it. The New York Times reran a piece today titled The Times did an investigation into how Tucker Carlson stoked white fear to conquer cable. This of course, is their routine, is that anybody they don't like is a white supremacist. That is the way all of this works. I'll repeat it again. Tucker's an immensely talented guy. He's gonna go on to have immense success and whatever he chooses to do next. This is not the end of Fox News, not remotely the end of Fox News because again, Fox News still is the primetime destination for the vast majority of America's really motivated conservatives. Is it going to harm Fox News? Certainly with Tucker's viewers it will. But again, the the kind of rule in conservative media, as the Fox News continues to truck on and ex hosts, they continue to have second careers as well. So this is hardly the end for either of them. In just a second, we'll get to the other big media firing of the day. And this one is actually kind of funny. We'll get to that momentarily first. As you know, I am the world's best dad. I mean, this is just technically true. They've done studies on this. I am the world's best father. Well, often my children come to me wanting to, you know, jump on my bed and they wanna have pillow fights and because I'm the world's best dad, I'm like totally. And not only am I the world's best dad with that, I say, you can only have pillow fights. I'm the world's greatest sheets and this is why we have Bull and branch sheets in our home. My little ones, they have very particular views on the sheet, quality of the sheets that they're jumping up and down on and messing up my bed. Well, I rely on BOL and Branch Bo and Branch Sheets are made from the finest 100% organic cotton threads on planet Earth. They feel Buttery to the touch. They're super breathable. They're perfect for both cooler and warmer months. Their signature hem sheets were made with thread, so luxurious for us. Presidents have slept in them. 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So he put out a statement reading quote. I was informed this morning by my agent that I have been terminated by CNN. I am stunned. After 17 years at CNN, I would've thought that someone in management would've had the decency to tell me directly. At no time was I ever given any indication that I would not be able to continue to do the work I have loved at the network. It's clear there's some larger issues at play. With that said, I wanna thank my colleagues and the many teams I've worked with for an incredible run. They're the most talented journalists in the business and I wish them all the best. So he's obviously implying when he says there are some larger issues at play. Presumably he's implying that sexism is to blame because he is a gay man, or racism is to blame because he is a black man or whatever else it is that Don Lemon is going to claim about why he was fired. The reason he was fired is because he was getting lower ratings than some forms of colon cancer. And also because he had a really bad habit of doing creepy and weird things to his cohost. That is the reason why, I mean, honestly, the fact that it took him this long to be fired is insane. I mean, there are profiles of him years ago, like hitting on waiters at restaurants in the profile and I was like, oh, that's totally fine. What's, what's the big deal? Now I have to just point out the radical irony of Don Lemon being fired at CNN and still losing to Tucker Carlson. That's hysterically funny. So not only does Don Lemon get fired, but still in the cable competition for who actually cares about Don Lemon getting fired. He still comes in second to Tucker Carlson the guy. The great irony of course is fast forward, you know, several decades and they're definitely gonna die on the same day, right? And then Tucker is gonna be above the fold and John Lemon's gonna be on page like 80 17 is the way this is going. Just it. It's only God could have a sense of humor like this when it comes to Don Lemon because that is, that is really, really funny. CNN immediately said that Don Lemon was inaccurate, which is great. So Don Lemon getting Fact-checked by his own network, remember this was their news anchor who can't even tell the truth about how he was fired. According to CNN PR quote, the statement is inaccurate. He was offered an opportunity to meet with management, but instead released a statement on Twitter. So they said, do you wanna come in and talk about it? He's like, Nope. And then he released a statement saying I was never even contacted. So great job CNN for delegating. Truly amazing job, delegating all of this to to all your news coverage, to a person who then lied about his own firing, such that you had to correct the record. Really 17 years of news coverage so bad that even when he leaves CNN has to fact check him retroactively about leaving. And that's the person you trusted to read the news for. You guys just slow clap for CNN. They're doing an amazing, amazing job. Here's what it looked like on air when CNN announced the ouster of Don, Lemon. Don, Lemon and CNN have parted ways. This is according to a memo that was sent out to CNN employees. CNN and Don have parted ways. Don will forever be a part of the CNN family. And we thank him for his contributions over the past 17 years. We wish him well and we will be cheering on him on in his future endeavors. And then it goes on to say that the network is committed to the morning show seen in this morning, which of course is hosted or was hosted by Don Lemon as well as Kaitlyn Collins and Poppy Harlow. Now this statement is coming from CNN, CEO, Chris Lch. It does not detail what happened, why, what led to Don's departure. But Don Lemon is no longer with CNN. Oh, time to play the sad trombone music from the price is right. Here's the last thing Don Lemon said on air before his untimely demise. Kayla and I agree on this. When someone call, I'm like, what's wrong? What do you want? Don't call me. What do you call? Yeah, just text me saying Hi guys. Oh no, no, no. Don't ever do that to me. You'll freak me out. No, No, no. Or the people who FaceTime out of the blue. I'm like, I'm not answering a FaceTime. Yeah, you're like, this is suspicious. Yeah. Alright, Harriet, thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks. All right. And thank you for joining us this morning. CNN News Central starts right after this break. Bye everyone. Well bye. So, so much for to Lemon. Okay, by the way, there was one other person who got ousted from the media over the course of the last 48 hours. Apparently the CEO of NB Cuni Universal has also ousted. His name is Jeff Shell. You haven't heard of him, even though he's probably more powerful than any of these people. He was the CEO of NBC Universal. Apparently he was ousted for inappropriate conduct with CNBC anchor and senior international correspondent Hadley Gamble, NBCU parent Comcast announced today that Shell was leaving after an investigation by outside counsel. Shell acknowledged I had an inappropriate relationship with a woman in the company, which I deeply regret. Apparently Deadline Hollywood learned that Shell had a relationship with Campbell, which started about 11 years ago and continued sporadically up until a couple of years ago when it ended. The complaint was LA lodged in the last month. Unclear why that would actually get the guy fired. But so long and, and happy trails to the head of NBC Universal will also be replaced. Now in the world of politics, somebody got fired too. That person would be Susan Rice. So Susan Rice is out. She was the domestic policy advisor to Joe Biden. So very often I get asked like, who is the person standing behind Joe Biden, who's designing Joe Biden's really, really bad policy. There are several answers. And Ron Klain before he left as he was the White House chief of the staff, but Susan Rice was definitely near the top of the list. And now she's gone. According to the Washington Post, Susan Rice will step down as White House domestic policy advisor. President Biden announced on Monday praising her work on some of the most divisive issues for his administration, including immigration and healthcare. So why exactly was she ousted? Well, according to Joe Biden, she wasn't ousted and everything was great. Biden said Susan was synonymous with foreign policy. But what I knew then and what we all know now, after more than two years of her steady leadership at the Domestic Policy Council, it's clear there's no one more capable and more determined to get important things done for the American people than Susan Rice. So she sufficiently botched foreign policy under Barack Obama. Then she botched domestic policy under Joe Biden. She'll step down in late May. According to White House Press, secretary Kare Jean Pierre Rice is not specified what her plans were after leaving the White House. She was responsible for overseeing policy including economic mobility, healthcare, and immigration. She did an amazing job on all three of those things. Economic mobility. She did an amazing job by helping to craft a policy that has led to 40 year highs in inflation as well as a stagnating economy on healthcare. She's done an amazing job helping to oversee a complete botch of Covid, which has led to extraordinary levels of excess death plus, plus a fentanyl crisis that has taken hundreds of thousands of lives. And on immigration, she has had her hand in the worst immigration crisis in the modern American era, which is really exciting. By the way, how bad is the immigration crisis? Well, apparently, according to National Review, and Jim Garrity in 2021 as images of children sleeping under foil, blankets and overflow centers dominated the news. Susan Rice, the White House's head of domestic policy told staff members she was frustrated with the situation. Ms. Rice vented a note. She sc scrambled on a memo detailing the position of advocates who believed a pandemic era. Border closure was compelling parents to send unaccompanied children sometimes called ucs. This is BS Rice wrote according to a memo, what is leading to voluntary separation is our generosity to unaccompanied children. In a statement, Ms. Patterson, the White House spokeswoman said, any suggestion Rice felt constrained by the demands of the wall was false and she was proud to be doing the right thing and treating children with dignity and respect. Well, last week the New York Times reported that thousands of children have ended up in punishing jobs across the country, working overnight in slaughterhouses, replacing roofs, operating machinery in factories, all in violation of child labor law laws. All along there were signs of the explosive growth of this labor force and warnings the Biden administration ignored or missed The times has found. So in other words, the New York Times reporting that a bunch of those unaccompanied children who entered the country ended up being used for child labor. Who was in charge of that Susan Rice. So NBC News says it has nothing to do with her immigration problem. The timing of Rice's departure coincides with the growing controversy over the White House's handling of migrant children who arrive unaccompanied to the southern border. And whether members of the White House, including Rice ignored warnings that Sponsors of migrant kids were making them more grueling jobs in violation of child labor laws. The White House has said this is not the case. The senior administration official said, Rice is proud of her work on the border. Or maybe they're just throwing her off the team before Joe Biden runs for reelection. In either case, we bid a Fawn farewell to Susan Rice who again was part of two administrations botching policy absolutely thoroughly. And now the question becomes, who's running the Biden White House now since obviously it ain't the old man and Joe Biden continues to dodder around nonsensically. We'll get to that in just one moment. First, as you may have noticed, the economy is getting worse day by day. You need to change your spending habits. If, you haven't changed the way you buy meat yet you really should. Lemme give you three reasons to subscribe to Good Ranchers first. Good Ranchers is giving you not me free bacon. I don't need the free bacon. That's a pound and a half of bacon in every box, a $240 value. Second Good Ranchers offers a price lock guarantee. Meaning when you subscribe, your price doesn't change for the length of your subscription. 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Also, if you're looking for something fascinating to watch, checkout our brand new series, what we saw hosted by storyteller Bill Whittle, season one focused on Apollo 11, season two of what we saw is now in full swing. This time Bill has set his sights on the Cold War and the tension between two superpowers that lasted for 45 years. Episode seven introduces us to the man who brought communism to the Western hemisphere and repelled the Bay of Pig's invasion. Fidel Castro Bill makes it feel like you're there witnessing history. It's a beautifully produced series. And If, you don't remember how scary the Cold War was 'cause you're too young, you really should learn about it. You have to be a member to see Cold War. Go to DailyWire dot com slash Cold War to start watching now. Meanwhile, Democrats are reluctant about Joe Biden, but they have no other choice. According to the Washington Post quote, the leftover pizza was divvied up. The Girl Scout cookies have been exchanged. The Democrats of North Fulton County sat and chatted about an issue that had been in back of their minds for months. President Biden's future, there was no question the people in the room dedicated Democrats who'd gathered in Johns Creek, Georgia to talk strategy in advance. The party's aims would vote for Biden in the general election. But the cold pizza fuel debate was about people outside the room, the friends and family and neighbors they would try to convince again to vote for him and other Democrats. In 2024 De Watson, a 66-year-old retired paralegal said she thought of them when she heard on the radio about the 80-year-old president stumbling on the stairs of Air Force One I noticed in speeches when he gets off script, he starts to make mistakes. I'm worried about his health. I know how much I like Kamala Harris if something happens to him. Said Watson. So again, the Democrats basically know that they are tied to the anchor. That is Joe Biden. They, they have no other choice. And Joe Biden continues to kind of look terrible. I mean, as the simple fact of the matter here was Joe Biden yesterday proclaiming that there is no such thing as your kids. Did you know that your kids do not belong to you? That you have no authority over your kids. Joe Biden has authority over your kids. In fact, the entire society has authority over your kids. Unless we're talking about unborn kids, in which case you can just kill them Willy-nilly. Here's Joe Biden. Yesterday, Rebecca put a teacher's creed into words when she said, there's no such thing as someone else's child. No such thing as someone else's child. Our nation's children are all our children. Nope, Rono. My kids are my kids. You don't know their names, you don't care about them. And I'm not going to let you threaten to gender transition my children because you have perverse views about reality. That is not going to happen. They should run on this. I mean, truly the reason why Democrats are scared of Joe Biden running, but they're also scared of him not running is 'cause he's a terrible candidate. But they got nothing in the background. They have nothing going on here. In fact, Joe Biden is he's, he's gone hard into reelect pander mode, which is kinda amazing. He should be swiveling to the middle, but he is not, you know, if, if he's suspicious, the Republicans are going to nominate Donald Trump or they're gonna go more extreme. Shouldn't he be pivoting to the middle? But he's actually not doing that. He keeps doubling down on the extremes, which is why the 3D Tennessee State lawmakers who faced expulsion after participating in protests over the last month school shooting in Nashville, the so-called Tennessee three, met with Joe Biden on Monday at the White House. Remember the rule? The rule is that If, you are a left winger who is black. Then you get to go to the White House. That those are the rules. Or if you're a white lady who just kind of tags along, which is what one of the Tennessee three is, If, you are however, the family of a child who's murdered during that national school, like the actual shooting that these young legislators were protesting about If. you are the family of a victim of that. You don't go to the White House If. you are a legislator who's suspended for violating all of the house rules in Tennessee. Then you go to the White House so long as you have the right color and you speak in very bizarrely bad MLK cosplaying tones. Then you got to go to the White House. Joe Biden said, you're standing up for our kids. You're standing up for our communities. What the Republican legislature did was shocking. It was undemocratic, manageable. It's just tragic to see what's happening. And you're stand ruinous and particularly your city, but also across the Camba, the country. Nothing is guaranteed about dag. Every generation has to fight. You're doing just that erroneous. So they get to go to the White House, which is very exciting. Again, he's swiveling hard to the left, hard to the left. But guess what? That ain't gonna work because he's still a wildly unpopular president. You would think at some point that he would swivel, but apparently not. In fact, he's so confident as Joe Biden that he can continue to be Joe Biden and win that he's still having Hunter squire him around, which is amazing. In fact, Hunter's lawyers are so confident that Hunter can get away with anything that the Washington Post reports a lawyer for. Hunter Biden called Monday for a congressional ethics investigation into the behavior of Marjorie Taylor Greene, alleging that she has repeatedly directed unmoored verbal abuses at the President's son, including false accusations of human trafficking and cavorting with prostitutes. Whoa, wait, wait, hold up. Where is the false accusation of cavorting with prostitutes? He's literally in photographs, cavorting with prostitutes and doing drugs, which is the part that's false. I'm, I'm so confused. Lawyer Abby Lowell wrote in a letter to the Office of Congressional Ethics, representative Greens unethical conduct arises from continuous verbal attacks. It's defamatory statements, publication of personal photos and data and promotion of conspiracy theories about and against Robert Hunter Biden. None of these could possibly be deemed to be part of any legitimate legislative activity. So I have this, this is hysterical. Green posted photos of Hunter Biden driving his niece and her cousin on President Biden's convertible and falsely alleging he was on crack and with prostitutes. Wait, hold up. Are we supposed to believe that Hunter was not on crack? He literally, in his memoirs, talks about snorting Parmesan cheese off carpet. Like this is all crazy making. Nowhere in that piece, by the way, do they actually bother to fact check? Hunter Biden's claims that it is false that this is happening, but Joe Biden believes that he is invincible, which presumably is why he's not bothering to negotiate over the over the debt ceiling. Even Democrats at this point are like, maybe he should make a call to Kevin McCarthy over the debt ceiling. Right now, McCarthy, the speaker of the house, is about to whip into place a debt limit bill. It hits the floor this week. That bill basically pushes the debt limit up by $1.5 trillion or a year, whichever comes first. And it also insists on holding spending steady, it would require Medicaid recipients to work 80 hours per month, which is 20 hours per week, which that doesn't seem like particularly crazy Work requirements attached to welfare seems like a good idea. We did this back in the nineties, you know who was in favor of it? Bill Clinton, I believe Joe Biden was actually when he was in the Senate as well. Other bill components included clawing back unspent pandemic funds and the IRS funding for customer service and finding tax sheets. Also a rollback on energy tax credits from the Inflation Reduction Act. Again, none of this is particularly arguable, but Joe Biden is gonna argue about it anyway, Karine Jean-Pierre says that this budget is cruel. You know, forcing people to work before we just give them unending amounts of money is apparently a, a form of cruelty. Now We've been very, very clear. It is unreasonable to put forth what they did last week. It is cruel. That piece of legislation is cruel. And so they need to really make sure that they, that we don't go into default and that's what they're asking to do. They're asking to hold our, hold our economy hostage and go into default. And that's something that we're gonna continue to call out. Oh, that, that's, they're holding the economy hostage. I noticed that you already shot the hostage. That's one of the things that I noticed. The economy is trashed because of you. According to the Wall Street Journal, the panic phase of the past month's banking crisis may be ending. The big question now is how much of a hit the economy faces from a lending pullback. The answer may not be clear four months, because as it turns out, depositors aren't not actually depositing in the banks. They're keeping their money out. They're afraid of it. A slow and steady erosion of deposits at small and mid-sized banks could continue now that longtime consumers have awakened to the pot potential to earn more on their money by moving it to money market mutual funds. By the way, I've done some of that personally, I know a bunch of people who have done that, is the rates at the money market mutual funds are higher than the rates of the banks. So what you're going to see is lending drying up all of this. Because again, Joe Biden inflated the currency and inflated the economy. But we're supposed to believe that this is a guy with economic specialty and that we should listen to him about spending more money via the debt ceiling increase. Meanwhile, on foreign policy, the Biden administration just left 16,000 American citizens behind in Sudan with nobody to even care for them. They evacuated the embassy. You're on your own over there. Antoni Blinken, who was last seen in the news back in 2020, apparently attempting to launder into the public view the lie that Hunter Biden's laptop was rushing disinformation. Well, now he's back this time he's saying that, you know what, yeah, we left, you know, 16,000 people in Sudan. But you know, our first priority is getting our people out of Sudan. That that apparently does not include the 16,000 American citizens in Sudan. A decision to suspend operations at the embassy remove our personnel from their signed posts is among the most difficult that any secretary has to make. But my first priority is the safety of our people. And I determined that the deteriorating security conditions in cartoon posed an unacceptable risk to keeping our team there. At this time, I wanna be clear that even as we have temporarily suspended operations on the ground in cartoon, our diplomatic and consular work in Sudan continues. Oh, does it? Because I feel like, I feel like everyone there is basically screwed. In fact. John Kirby, who is the NSA spokesperson, he says, we literally have no idea how many people who are Americans are stuck in Sudan. This is one of the late Don lemon's. Last interviews, Don. I wanna push back on this idea that there's 16,000 Americans who wanna get out. We don't have firm estimates of the exact number of Americans, citizens who are in Sudan. They don't have to register with us. They don't have to tell us that they're there. We think the, the vast majority of these American citizens in Sudan, and they're not all in cartoon, are dual nationals. These are people who grew up in Sudan, who have families there, work there, businesses there who don't want to leave. So I think we need to be careful about that number. Oh, They wanna be there in Sudan while things are completely imploding around. And they said the same thing about people in Afghanistan who got stuck there. This administration is such a bleep show. It is a highly vulnerable administration, obviously, and, and the fact that Democrats have to run with what they got. This is a real opening for Republicans if Republicans take it. Okay, quick update, business update for you. So remember that time that Disney was supposedly beating Ron DeSantis? Well now apparently they're having to cut employees. They're having serious economic difficulties. They're beginning their second round of layoffs as previous as par as part of their previously unveiled plans to cut 7,000 jobs. Employees at this round are being let go from divisions, including ESPN, which is M-S-N-B-C, with footballs and basketballs. The company, according to the Wall Street Journal, said several thousand US employees would be cut this week from multiple business areas, including entertainment and its parks, experiences, and product divisions. It turns out that when you, you know, completely alienate your entire customer base, including parents like me that has some actual serious side effects. I mean, they've lost thousands of dollars from the Shapiro family. HA has Disney, and they'll continue to do that so long as they embrace a radical left-wing policy position. We'll get to more on all of this in just a second. First, standing out can be tough, especially when you're looking for a job. On the flip side, when you're hiring, it can be really tough to find an applicant that really stands out, which is why you need to check out ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter helps you find the most qualified people for your roles fast. Right now you can Try ZipRecruiter for FREE at ZipRecruiter dot com slash DailyWire. ZipRecruiter matching technology helps you find the most qualified candidates for a wide range of roles. If, you see a candidate you like, you can easily send them a personal invites. They're more likely to apply their user friendly dashboard. Makes it easy to filter, review, and rate your candidates all from one place. Let ZipRecruiter help you find the best people for all your roles. Four outta five employers who post down ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within day one. There's a reason we here at DailyWire, been using ZipRecruiter for years. We're constantly looking for the best possible employees. Go check out ZipRecruiter right now. ZipRecruiter dot com slash DailyWire. You can Try ZipRecruiter for FREE. You can do it both. If, you're looking for employment and if you're looking for great employees, try out ZipRecruiter dot com slash DailyWire. ZipRecruiter is indeed the smartest way to hire that ZipRecruiter dot com slash DailyWire. We don't waste our time, we don't waste our money. ZipRecruiter dot com slash DailyWire makes our job easier to make your job easier too, and maybe get you a job ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire. Alright, time for some things I like and then some things that I hate. So things that I like today. So Phil Jackson, I'm a, I'm a Boston Celtics fan, which means I've spent like my entire life watching the NB hating Phil Jackson. He was the coach of the Lakers, of course, highly successful coach of the Lakers who ended up tying, I believe Red Auerbach maybe surpassing him, I can't remember, as the most championship laden coach of all time. Well, he actually said something I agree with, and he, and I was never a big Phil Jackson fan. 'cause he had this whole kinda like new ag thing in which he would quote Zen and, and, and talk about how, you know, crystals were going to make his team work better. Meanwhile, Tex winter was in the back actually doing the triangle offense and all of this. And my feeling was always that, that when you are blessed to coach a team with like Kobe and Shaq on it, or Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippin on it, you have a pretty good shot at the cha. In any case, put aside my criticisms of Phil Jackson for now, because he actually said something correct. Phil Jackson was on a podcast and he had the temerity to suggest that he doesn't watch the NBA anymore because it's too political. Here's what he had to say. Do you feel like it just made little of the game, like it made it like a side show? What do you think it was that turned you off? Well, it was, it was, they even had slogans on the floor on the baseline. It was catering. It was trying to cater to an audience or trying to bring a certain audience into play. And it, they didn't know it was turning other people off. You know, people, people wanna see sports as non-political. Obviously. What he's saying is true, and this is coming from Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson is no wild wide Republican by any stretch of the imagination. Well, this is verboten. You cannot say this. So Jalen Rose, he then put out a statement about how terrible it was that Phil Jackson did not appreciate equality rejecting Black Lives Matter during the NBA finals in 2020, which is what you would see. You see people with like their jerseys, the the names on the back of the jerseys, you'd be like equality, black Lives Matter, et cetera. And here's Jalen Rose being very upset at Phil Jackson. The same Phil Jackson that won championships with some of the greatest black athletes in the history of the game. Michael Jordan, Scotty Pippen, Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant made millions on their backs and off their sweat equity. You're sitting up watching the game with your grandkids and y'all think it's funny when justice passes the ball to equal opportunity, when somebody shows you who they are, believe 'em. Well, I mean, III think it's funny because neither of those people is named that justice is, there's no one named justice and there's no one named equal opportunity. So you're having bumper stickers passing the ball back and forth. But I, I love the fact that, that because Phil Jackson works in a league in which the players are largely black. Now he's a racist for not wanting it to be overtly political when he watches basketball, which is an amazing thing. You know, keep going with this. See how it works out for you. Keep, keep fringing out large segments of your audience when, when you lose Phil Jackson, guys, you're not just losing small segments of your audience, losing large segments of your audience, okay? Time for some things that I hate. All right, so apparently there is a magazine called Brides Today, and Brides today in India has a special feature Or no or no. The special feature is of a dude, a gender non-conforming. I I know this is a dude because this person has more hair than the carpet in this entire office. I mean, this person is just covered in human hair. My goodness. The levels of testosterone running through this person's body could populate entire worlds apparently and truly amazing stuff in conversation with brides today. And this is a dude who's dressed up in Indian bridal garb like as in like the country of India. In conversation with brides today, gender non-conforming and trans-feminine author, performance artist, poet, and comedian. Alec ve Manan, who performs under the moniker Aach makes a compelling case for love, is love brides state. Here's the interview. Brides state says, you look absolutely fabulous in these photographs. Tell us how you style Indian wear. Okay, so first of all, lie, lie, you do not look absolutely fabulous. You look like a horror show. I'm sorry. You're the one who put yourself on cover of magazine. Once you put yourself on the cover of magazine to declare yourself beautiful, then we all get to comment on it. And nope, isn't gonna be a big nope right here. My goodness. Alex says, in the US Indian diaspora, we're only expected to wear Indian ensembles for community events like weddings and holidays. However, I like donning Indian outfits across occasions. Indian wears elegant vibrance and timeless. Why would we deny the world it's beauty? Sometimes I combine Indian wear with Western style clothing. That's the fun in fashion. It's playfulness, it's hybridity. Well, I mean that isn't like, you know, there's traditional male Indian clothing as well. Brides today says, how would you define your personal style? And he says, style is mobile poetry. There are no guidelines I address to be joyful, to enhance my capacity for all or amazement in this world. I dress for me. Okay, first of all, that is the biggest crock of crap. Okay? People generally dress for each other. You know how you know this? Because when you're at home and it's time for bed, you don't put on a tux, you put on some PJs, you look like a schlub because you're dressing for you now to be comfortable. But apparently we're all supposed to believe that when you Don bridal garb, Indian bridal, first of all, I, I wonder how Indian women feel about this sort of thing, apparently, okay, is is that the answer here? Because I feel like not brides today said, what does love mean to you? Quote, love is about expansion, not constriction, permission not prohibition. Becoming ourselves, not betraying ourselves. Oh, so love just means you do whatever you want without any sort of limits whatsoever. Are there no sort of sort of limits at all? None. Because I feel like even you would think there are limits, say children or like, you know, an infinite number of sexual partners. No, maybe not. I suppose not. Bride today says we have been conditioned to abide by the institution of marriage. What are your thoughts on marriage? And he says, I grew up in a sexist culture that conflated marriage with maturity. One that told us we had to be married to be complete marriage was less about what we wanted and more about what was expected of us. And this caused so much grief. Yeah, I'm sure this, that you are, you are a deeply happy individual in an individualist culture, dressing up in women's clothing and bearing your extremely hairy belly to the world. On the cover of brides today, marriage is the problem, guys, probably when I look at the average person, if the choice which way Western man, I mean seriously, it's like marriage on the one hand or this, okay, your choice. Your choice. And so then he calls for marriage equality of course. And by marriage equality he means that marriage is bad. We just heard that. You should recognize that for a huge number of people. When they say marriage equality, what they mean is the fundamental institution of marriage ought not be respected, it ought to be deconstructed. And marriage equality is just one tool in that deconstruction, which by the way is one of the reasons why we moved directly from gay marriage, which is a completely different argument to men can be women because maybe the argument all along embedded itself in a broader argument, which is that marriage is bad. And once you hollow out the institution from man and woman and children, then all of a sudden it doesn't exist anymore. It's been completely exploded. So, you know, well done again, brides today and is an interesting choice brides today. Okay? Meanwhile, I would recommend that you not allow your children to watch Mighty Morphin Power Rangers reunion special. You grew up watching Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and it was, you know, like a, a semi cute show with a bunch of young people who would randomly turn into spandex wearing crime fighters and such. Well now the reunion is going to feature the adult sex lives of the, of the people, which makes perfect sense according to Entertainment Weekly Power Ranger star David Yost has been open about how the homophobia he faced while working on mighty morph from Power Rangers led him to walk away from the hit series in the 1990s. But now as he returns for the 30th anniversary special once and always, he's seeing the L-G-B-T-Q community explicitly represented on the series. I think it's great we had an element like that, obviously into where we are because it's important. People see representation. Yost tells Eew of a once in all we seen in which yellow Ranger Trinis daughter Min helps a man and his boyfriend fend off some of Rita Repulses putty Patrollers. Yes. The it, it's very important that children see a gay couple being defended from the putty patrollers of retail repulse. Don't worry, it's not about the kids guys. They don't want, they don't wanna indoctrinate the kids and their values. It's, it's just, it's just about exposing kids to different lifestyles and all the rest, the, the kids, no, again, go back to Joe Biden saying that they're not your kids. They're all of our kids. And you know exactly where this is coming from already. Guys, the rest of the show continues right now. You're not gonna wanna miss it. We'll be getting into the Vaunted Ben Shapiro Show Mailbag, If. you want to have your question answered, you have to be a member. If you're not a member, become a member. Use code SHAPIRO checkout for two months free on all annual plans. Click the link in the description and join us. We'll get to more on this in just one second. First, Pure Talk believes in American values. And that free should mean, you know, like free. So when you switch to Pure Talk today, you'll get a free Samsung 5G smartphone. There's no foreign line requirement, no activation fee, just a free Samsung that's built to last with a rugged screen, quick charging, Buttery and top tier data security qualifying plans start just 35 bucks a month for unlimited talk text, 15 gigs of data and a mobile hotspot. Pure Talk gives you phenomenal coverage on America's most dependable 5G network. It's the same coverage you know and love, but for half the price of the other guys, the average family saves almost a thousand dollars a year. So I challenge you to choose a company that actually doesn't hate your guts and shares your values. Let Pure talk's expert US customer service team help you make the switch today. Go to Pure Talk dot com slash Shapiro to claim your eligibility for your free brand new Samsung 5G smartphone and start saving on wireless today. Again, go to Pure Talk dot com slash SHAPIRO to switch to my cell phone company. I've been using 'em for years. They're fantastic. You'll love them as well. But at Pure Talk dot com slash Shapiro and claim your eligibility on that free brand new Samsung 5G smartphone. Start saving.

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wish say not wish say line unclear right simply matter tucker carlson fox news attempt draw new line cover issue case think point view arguable case tucker major asset fox news go to easy fill time slot difficult time slot fill s number host prime time fox news people immediately chortle impact new york times tle impact suggest fox news trouble tucker trouble truth success area endeavor rodeo fox news fox news fire bill oreilly million viewer night tucker million viewer night bill oreilly go lot money endeavor fox news go know continue wildly successful fox news part way past friend people like glenn beck people like megan kelly know business decision fox news go continue wide range viewership lot people course angry upset tucker carlson oust fox news direct response fact tucker incredibly compelling performer s somebody unique point view politic not agree tucker lot time ve talk strenuously disagree tucker wanna time strenuously disagree tucker watch sunday special episode disagree foreign policy government inter government interventionism american economy example think government intervene strongly american economy subsidy prevent technological development order preserve certain type job not think tucker s certainly compelling presence come social issue particularly extraordinary moral clarity ll interesting fox news try house try fill gap left celebrate tucker carlson fire fox news mean literally celebrate wave intellectual luminary view lead charge combine iq low pen currently hold hand possible negative iq point view achieve signal feat here look like view find tucker let word come fox news medium tucker carlson agree way thank service network host fire contributor wave wave literally wave right s time people stand year exciting yeah great great stuff people way excited network watch excited like somebody get fire msn bbc network watch not like oh god s amazing d like watch network not care show left like bewildered confused upset presence alternative point view like fox news place certainly tucker cnn course excited cnn oliver darcy say reason tucker fire lead extremist direction course go to cnns line raise lot question network potentially try reign extreme people channel mean course tucker carlson extreme probably channel note john important mean tucker carlson outside donald trump person command gop direct see republican lawmaker prominent republican lawmaker grovel foot te cruz ted cruz instance grovel foot afraid go primetime lash huge news world medium world politic push gop extremist direction tucker go to away despite cnn revel tucker go to away mean immediate rumor tucker run president think think sketchy rumor give fact tucker carlson tend private person s somebody enjoy private life not wanna screen m sure want head head donald trump man limit come attack political opponent gall watch member left wing medium ve wildly dishonest year trump tucker pretty everybody kind revel new york times rerun piece today title time investigation tucker carlson stoke white fear conquer cable course routine anybody not like white supremacist way work ill repeat tucker immensely talented guy s go to immense success choose end fox news remotely end fox news fox news primetime destination vast majority america motivate conservative go harm fox news certainly tucker viewer kind rule conservative medium fox news continue truck ex host continue second career hardly end second big medium firing day actually kind funny momentarily know world good dad mean technically true ve study world good father child come want know jump bed wanna pillow fight m world good dad m like totally world good dad pillow fight m world great sheet bull branch sheet home little one particular view sheet quality sheet jump mess bed rely bol branch bo branch sheet fine organic cotton thread planet earth feel buttery touch super breathable perfect cooler warm month signature hem sheet thread luxurious president sleep bol branch sheet actually soften wash cycle pesticide aldehyde harsh chemical good bo branch give night risk free trial free shipping return order go to wanna return m sure well night sleep bo branch order use promo code shapiro today bol branchcom s bol branch bol land branchcom promo code shapiro exclusion supply site detail good sheet planet earth bar amazing blanket way couple blanket good stuff check right bo branchcom tucker fire ring course big news yesterday second big news yesterday firing don lemon don lemon cnn finally let actually don lemon statement read quote inform morning agent terminate cnn stun year cnn ve think management ve decency tell directly time give indication able continue work love network clear s large issue play say wanna thank colleague team ve work incredible run talented journalist business wish good s obviously imply say large issue play presumably s imply sexism blame gay man racism blame black man don lemon go claim fire reason fire get low rating form colon cancer bad habit creepy weird thing cohost reason mean honestly fact take long fire insane mean profile year ago like hit waiter restaurant profile like oh s totally fine s s big deal point radical irony don lemon fire cnn lose tucker carlson s hysterically funny don lemon fire cable competition actually care don lemon getting fire come second tucker carlson guy great irony course fast forward know decade definitely go to die day right tucker go to fold john lemons go to page like way go god sense humor like come don lemon funny cnn immediately say don lemon inaccurate great don lemon getting factchecke network remember news anchor not tell truth fire accord cnn pr quote statement inaccurate offer opportunity meet management instead release statement twitter say wanna come talk s like nope release statement say contact great job cnn delegate truly amazing job delegate news coverage person lie firing correct record year news coverage bad leave cnn fact check retroactively leave s person trust read news guy slow clap cnn amazing amazing job here look like air cnn announce ouster don lemon don lemon cnn part way accord memo send cnn employee cnn don part way don forever cnn family thank contribution past year wish cheer future endeavor go network commit morning see morning course host host don lemon kaitlyn collins poppy harlow statement come cnn ceo chris lch detail happen lead don departure don lemon long cnn oh time play sad trombone music price right here thing don lemon say air untimely demise kayla agree m like s wrong want not yeah text say hi guy oh not ll freak people facetime blue m like m answer facetime yeah like suspicious yeah alright harriet thank thank thank right thank join morning cnn news central start right break bye bye lemon okay way person get oust medium course hour apparently ceo nb cuni universal oust jeff shell not hear s probably powerful people ceo nbc universal apparently oust inappropriate conduct cnbc anchor senior international correspondent hadley gamble nbcu parent comcast announce today shell leave investigation outside counsel shell acknowledge inappropriate relationship woman company deeply regret apparently deadline hollywood learn shell relationship campbell start year ago continue sporadically couple year ago end complaint la lodge month unclear actually guy fire long happy trail head nbc universal replace world politic somebody get fire person susan rice susan rice domestic policy advisor joe biden ask like person stand joe biden s design joe biden bad policy answer ron klain leave white house chief staff susan rice definitely near list s go accord washington post susan rice step white house domestic policy advisor president biden announce monday praise work divisive issue administration include immigration healthcare exactly oust accord joe biden not oust great biden say susan synonymous foreign policy know know year steady leadership domestic policy council clear s capable determined important thing american people susan rice sufficiently botch foreign policy barack obama botch domestic policy joe biden shell step late accord white house press secretary kare jean pierre rice specify plan leave white house responsible oversee policy include economic mobility healthcare immigration amazing job thing economic mobility amazing job help craft policy lead year high inflation stagnate economy healthcare s amazing job help oversee complete botch covid lead extraordinary level excess death plus plus fentanyl crisis take hundred thousand life immigration hand bad immigration crisis modern american era exciting way bad immigration crisis apparently accord national review jim garrity image child sleep foil blanket overflow center dominate news susan rice white house head domestic policy tell staff member frustrate situation ms rice vent note sc scramble memo detail position advocate believe pandemic era border closure compelling parent send unaccompanied child call ucs bs rice write accord memo lead voluntary separation generosity unaccompanied child statement ms patterson white house spokeswoman say suggestion rice feel constrain demand wall false proud right thing treat child dignity respect week new york times report thousand child end punish job country work overnight slaughterhouse replace roof operate machinery factory violation child labor law law sign explosive growth labor force warning biden administration ignore miss time find word new york times report bunch unaccompanied child enter country end child labor charge susan rice nbc news say immigration problem timing rice departure coincide grow controversy white house handle migrant child arrive unaccompanied southern border member white house include rice ignore warning sponsor migrant kid make grueling job violation child labor law white house say case senior administration official say rice proud work border maybe throw team joe biden run reelection case bid fawn farewell susan rice administration botch policy absolutely thoroughly question s run biden white house obviously be not old man joe biden continue dodder nonsensically moment notice economy get bad day day need change spending habit not change way buy meat lemme reason subscribe good rancher good rancher give free bacon not need free bacon s pound half bacon box value second good rancher offer price lock guarantee mean subscribe price not change length subscription price meat expect increase come year huge saving family good rancher meat unlike natural burger usda prime steak well organic chicken change standard great meat steak good ll talk year later know kosher steak unbelievable head good rancher dot com use code ben buck order ll free bacon great meat secure price buck order use promo code ben good rancher dot com s good rancher dot com american meat deliver good meat country use promo code ben good rancher dot com free bacon great meat secure price buck order get lose head good rancher dot com american meat deliver look fascinating watch checkout brand new series see host storyteller bill whittle season focus apollo season see swing time bill set sight cold war tension superpower last year episode seven introduce man bring communism western hemisphere repel bay pig invasion fidel castro bill make feel like witness history beautifully produce series not remember scary cold war cause young learn member cold war dailywire dot com slash cold war start watch democrats reluctant joe biden choice accord washington post quote leftover pizza divvy girl scout cookie exchange democrats north fulton county sit chat issue mind month president biden future question people room dedicate democrats d gather johns creek georgia talk strategy advance partys aim vote biden general election cold pizza fuel debate people outside room friend family neighbor try convince vote democrat de watson retire paralegal say think hear radio president stumble stair air force notice speech get script start mistake m worried health know like kamala harris happen say watson democrats basically know tie anchor joe biden choice joe biden continue kind look terrible mean simple fact matter joe biden yesterday proclaim thing kid know kid belong authority kid joe biden authority kid fact entire society authority kid talk unborn kid case kill willynilly here joe biden yesterday rebecca teacher creed word say s thing else child thing else child nation child child nope rono kid kid not know name not care m go let threaten gender transition child perverse view reality go happen run mean truly reason democrat scared joe biden run scared run cause s terrible candidate get background go fact joe biden s s go hard reelect pander mode kinda amazing swivel middle know s suspicious republicans go nominate donald trump go to extreme not pivot middle s actually keep double extreme tennessee state lawmaker face expulsion participate protest month school shooting nashville socalled tennessee meet joe biden monday white house remember rule rule left winger black white house rule white lady kind tag tennessee family child s murder national school like actual shooting young legislator protest family victim not white house legislator s suspend violate house rule tennessee white house long right color speak bizarrely bad mlk cosplaye tone get white house joe biden say stand kid stand community republican legislature shock undemocratic manageable tragic s happen stand ruinous particularly city camba country guarantee dag generation fight erroneous white house exciting s swivel hard left hard left guess be not go to work s wildly unpopular president think point swivel apparently fact s confident joe biden continue joe biden win s have hunter squire amazing fact hunter lawyer confident hunter away washington post report lawyer hunter biden call monday congressional ethic investigation behavior marjorie taylor greene allege repeatedly direct unmoored verbal abuse president son include false accusation human trafficking cavorting prostitute whoa wait wait hold false accusation cavort prostitute s literally photograph cavort prostitute drug s false m m confused lawyer abby lowell write letter office congressional ethic representative green unethical conduct arise continuous verbal attack defamatory statement publication personal photo datum promotion conspiracy theory robert hunter biden possibly deem legitimate legislative activity hysterical green post photo hunter biden drive niece cousin president biden convertible falsely allege crack prostitute wait hold suppose believe hunter crack literally memoir talk snort parmesan cheese carpet like crazy making piece way actually bother fact check hunter biden claim false happen joe biden believe invincible presumably s bother negotiate debt ceiling democrats point like maybe kevin mccarthy debt ceiling right mccarthy speaker house whip place debt limit bill hit floor week bill basically push debt limit trillion year whichever come insist hold spending steady require medicaid recipient work hour month hour week not like particularly crazy work requirement attach welfare like good idea ninety know favor bill clinton believe joe biden actually senate bill component include claw unspent pandemic fund irs funding customer service find tax sheet rollback energy tax credit inflation reduction act particularly arguable joe biden go to argue karine jeanpierre say budget cruel know force people work unending amount money apparently form cruelty ve clear unreasonable forth week cruel piece legislation cruel need sure not default s ask ask hold hold economy hostage default s go to continue oh s hold economy hostage notice shoot hostage s thing notice economy trash accord wall street journal panic phase past month banking crisis end big question hit economy face lending pullback answer clear month turn depositor not actually deposit bank keep money afraid slow steady erosion deposit small midsized bank continue longtime consumer awaken pot potential earn money move money market mutual fund way ve personally know bunch people rate money market mutual fund high rate bank go lend dry joe biden inflate currency inflate economy suppose believe guy economic specialty listen spend money debt ceiling increase foreign policy biden administration leave american citizen sudan care evacuate embassy antoni blinken see news apparently attempt launder public view lie hunter biden laptop rush disinformation s time s say know yeah leave know people sudan know priority get people sudan apparently include american citizen sudan decision suspend operation embassy remove personnel sign post difficult secretary priority safety people determine deteriorate security condition cartoon pose unacceptable risk keep team time wanna clear temporarily suspend operation ground cartoon diplomatic consular work sudan continue oh feel like feel like basically screw fact john kirby nsa spokesperson say literally idea people americans stick sudan late don lemon interview don wanna push idea s americans wanna not firm estimate exact number americans citizen sudan not register not tell think vast majority american citizen sudan cartoon dual national people grow sudan family work business not want leave think need careful number oh wanna sudan thing completely implode say thing people afghanistan get stick administration bleep highly vulnerable administration obviously fact democrat run get real opening republicans republicans okay quick update business update remember time disney supposedly beat ron desantis apparently have cut employee have economic difficulty begin second round layoff previous par previously unveil plan cut job employee round let division include espn msnbc football basketball company accord wall street journal say thousand employee cut week multiple business area include entertainment park experience product division turn know completely alienate entire customer base include parent like actual effect mean ve lose thousand dollar shapiro family ha disney ll continue long embrace radical leftwe policy position second stand tough especially look job flip hire tough find applicant stand need check ziprecruiter ziprecruiter help find qualified people role fast right try ziprecruiter free ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire ziprecruiter matching technology help find qualified candidate wide range role candidate like easily send personal invite likely apply user friendly dashboard make easy filter review rate candidate place let ziprecruiter help find good people role outta employer post ziprecruiter quality candidate day s reason dailywire ziprecruit year constantly look good possible employee check ziprecruiter right ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire try ziprecruiter free look employment look great employee try ziprecruit dot com slash dailywire ziprecruiter smart way hire ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire not waste time not waste money ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire make job easy job easier maybe job ziprecruiter smart way hire alright time thing like thing hate thing like today phil jackson m m boston celtic fan mean ve spend like entire life watch nb hate phil jackson coach laker course highly successful coach laker end tie believe red auerbach maybe surpass not remember championship laden coach time actually say agree big phil jackson fan cause kinda like new ag thing quote zen talk know crystal go team work well tex winter actually triangle offense feeling bless coach team like kobe shaq michael jordan scotty pippin pretty good shot cha case aside criticism phil jackson actually say correct phil jackson podcast temerity suggest not watch nba anymore political here feel like little game like like think turn slogan floor baseline cater try cater audience try bring certain audience play not know turn people know people people wanna sport nonpolitical obviously s say true come phil jackson phil jackson wild wide republican stretch imagination verboten jalen rise statement terrible phil jackson appreciate equality reject black life matter nba final people like jersey name jersey d like equality black life matter et cetera here jalen rise upset phil jackson phil jackson win championship great black athlete history game michael jordan scotty pippen shaquille oneal kobe bryant million back sweat equity sit watch game grandkid you think funny justice pass ball equal opportunity somebody show believe em mean iii think funny people name justice s name justice s name equal opportunity have bumper sticker pass ball forth love fact phil jackson work league player largely black s racist want overtly political watch basketball amazing thing know go work fringe large segment audience lose phil jackson guy lose small segment audience lose large segment audience okay time thing hate right apparently magazine call bride today bride today india special feature special feature dude gender nonconforme know dude person hair carpet entire office mean person cover human hair goodness level testosterone run person body populate entire world apparently truly amazing stuff conversation bride today dude s dress indian bridal garb like like country india conversation bride today gender nonconforming transfeminine author performance artist poet comedian alec ve manan perform moniker aach make compelling case love love bride state here interview bride state say look absolutely fabulous photograph tell style indian wear okay lie lie look absolutely fabulous look like horror m sorry cover magazine cover magazine declare beautiful comment nope not go to big nope right goodness alex say indian diaspora expect wear indian ensemble community event like wedding holiday like don indian outfit occasions indian wears elegant vibrance timeless deny world beauty combine indian wear western style clothing s fun fashion playfulness hybridity mean not like know s traditional male indian clothing bride today say define personal style say style mobile poetry guideline address joyful enhance capacity amazement world dress okay big crock crap okay people generally dress know know home time bed not tux pjs look like schlub dress comfortable apparently suppose believe don bridal garb indian bridal wonder indian woman feel sort thing apparently okay answer feel like bride today say love mean quote love expansion constriction permission prohibition betray oh love mean want sort limit whatsoever sort sort limit feel like think limit child like know infinite number sexual partner maybe suppose bride today say condition abide institution marriage thought marriage say grow sexist culture conflate marriage maturity tell marry complete marriage want expect cause grief yeah m sure deeply happy individual individualist culture dress women clothing bear extremely hairy belly world cover bride today marriage problem guy probably look average person choice way western man mean seriously like marriage hand okay choice choice call marriage equality course marriage equality mean marriage bad hear recognize huge number people marriage equality mean fundamental institution marriage ought respect ought deconstruct marriage equality tool deconstruction way reason move directly gay marriage completely different argument man woman maybe argument embed broad argument marriage bad hollow institution man woman child sudden not exist anymore completely explode know bride today interesting choice bride today okay recommend allow child watch mighty morphin power ranger reunion special grow watch mighty morphin power ranger know like semi cute bunch young people randomly turn spandex wear crime fighter reunion go feature adult sex life people make perfect sense accord entertainment weekly power ranger star david yost open homophobia face work mighty morph power ranger lead walk away hit series return anniversary special s see lgbtq community explicitly represent series think great element like obviously important people representation yost tell eew see yellow ranger trinis daughter min help man boyfriend fend rita repulse putty patroller yes important child gay couple defend putty patroller retail repulse not worry kid guy not want not wanna indoctrinate kid value expose kid different lifestyle rest kid joe biden say kid kid know exactly come guy rest continue right go to wanna miss get vaunted ben shapiro mailbag want question answer member member member use code shapiro checkout month free annual plan click link description join second pure talk believe american value free mean know like free switch pure talk today ll free samsung g smartphone s foreign line requirement activation fee free samsung s build rugged screen quick charge buttery tier datum security qualifying plan start buck month unlimited talk text gig datum mobile hotspot pure talk give phenomenal coverage america dependable g network coverage know love half price guy average family save thousand dollar year challenge choose company actually not hate gut share value let pure talk expert customer service team help switch today pure talk dot com slash shapiro claim eligibility free brand new samsung g smartphone start save wireless today pure talk dot com slash shapiro switch cell phone company ve em year fantastic ll love pure talk dot com slash shapiro claim eligibility free brand new samsung g smartphone start save

This bill requires specified companies and other entities associated with a foreign country to register an agent with the Department of Commerce for service of process (i.e., the legal process for notifying a defendant that legal action has been taken against them) in the United States. Specifically, a corporation or other commercial entity conducting business in the United States must register an agent if the entity (1) is organized under the laws of, or has its principal place of business in, a foreign country; (2) has a majority of shares held by an individual or a group of individuals who reside in a foreign country; or (3) is owned by individuals or entities who reside in or are headquartered outside of the United States and the majority of the entity's earnings are derived from commerce outside of the United States.

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bill require specify company entity associate foreign country register agent department commerce service process ie legal process notify defendant legal action take united states specifically corporation commercial entity conduct business united states register agent entity organize law principal place business foreign country majority share hold individual group individual reside foreign country own individual entity reside headquarter outside united states majority entitys earning derive commerce outside united states

This bill extends the period during which the Department of the Interior may make grants or provide assistance for the Yuma Crossing Heritage Area in Arizona through FY2036.

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bill extend period department interior grant provide assistance yuma cross heritage area arizona

Speeches, etc. A call to Conservatives to be ready to go into action for the General Election was made by Miss Margaret Roberts, B.A., B.Sc. (prospective candidate), when Northumberland Heath men's branch of the Conservative Association was re-formed, at a meeting at the Pheasant Hall, Northumberland Heath, on Thursday last week. Miss Roberts said she was grateful to Mr. J. F. L. Gates for the tremendous amount of work he had done in Northumberland Heath. There were too many people saying “Why don't the Conservatives do something about it?” The answer was that those people should join them and help do something about it. She was pleased to see so many people present that evening, who were going to be “doers.” The Labour Party frequently accused the Conservatives of having no policy, but Miss Roberts counter—claimed that the Government had no policy to get the country out of the economic crisis. Sooner or later the Conservative Party would be called upon to get the country out of the mess it was in. If the Labour Government were returned for another five years the position would be such that Britain might never return to normal. There might well be a General Election in the early autumn, and only 21 days' statutory notice was necessary. That was merely 19 working days to prepare posters and canvass householders. The election had legally to come in the next 200 days, and put like that it was not long to get prepared. Miss Roberts thought there was a good chance of “pulling the Division” if each section pulled together and worked as a team. It might be said that she had “a vested interest in the Division.” (Laughter.) Mr. Gates said there was an exceptionally strong women's branch in that area and they wanted to see the men's branch equally lusty. They would work for Miss Roberts, for she was an excellent candidate and was becoming well-known throughout the country. Proposing that a branch be formed, Mr. R. W. Wait said there were originally 100 members in Northumberland Heath Men's Conservative Association. The motion was seconded by Mr. W. J. Harding. Officers elected were: Chairman, Mr. H. H. Forward; vice-chairman, Mr C J. Neugent; hon. secretary, Mr J. W. Mullins, 107, Appledore-avenue, Barnehurst; hon. treasurer, Mr R. W. Wait; committee, Messrs. F Ford, N. A. Granger, A. Messum, J. F. L. Gates, W. J. Harding, G Robins and A. H. Beams. The first meeting of the committee was held on Wednesday. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc conservative ready action general election miss margaret roberts ba bsc prospective candidate northumberland heath men branch conservative association reform meeting pheasant hall northumberland heath thursday week miss robert say grateful mr j f l gate tremendous work northumberland heath people say not conservative answer people join help pleased people present evening go doer labour party frequently accuse conservative have policy miss roberts counter claim government policy country economic crisis soon later conservative party call country mess labour government return year position britain return normal general election early autumn day statutory notice necessary merely work day prepare poster canvass householder election legally come day like long prepare miss roberts think good chance pull division section pull work team say vested interest division laughter mr gate say exceptionally strong women branch area want men branch equally lusty work miss robert excellent candidate wellknown country propose branch form mr r w wait say originally member northumberland heath men conservative association motion second mr w j harding officer elect chairman mr h h forward vicechairman mr c j neugent hon secretary mr j w mullins appledoreavenue barnehurst hon treasurer mr r w wait committee messrs f ford n granger messum j f l gates w j harding g robins h beam meeting committee hold wednesday copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill removes silencers from the definition of firearms for purposes of the National Firearms Act. It also treats persons acquiring or possessing a firearm silencer as meeting any registration and licensing requirements of such Act. The Department of Justice must destroy certain records relating to the registration, transfer, or making of a silencer. The bill also revises the definitions of firearm silencer and firearm muffler under the federal criminal code and includes such items in the 10% excise tax category.

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bill remove silencer definition firearm purpose national firearm act treat person acquire possess firearm silencer meet registration licensing requirement act department justice destroy certain record relate registration transfer making silencer bill revise definition firearm silencer firearm muffler federal criminal code include item excise tax category

Speeches, etc. Mrs. Margaret Thatcher, Finchley's MP who personifies beauty and intelligence on the British political scene may well go down in history as our first woman Chancellor of the Exchequer. As a leading Opposition finance “spokesman” she has left her mark so indelibly on this year's Budget debates that she is confidently placed in the lists for the job—if and when the Conservatives get back to power at Westminster. Her mastery of the complicated clauses of the Finance Bill in the debates just before the Summer Recess and her tussles, mostly with Mr. John Diamond, Chief Secretary of the Treasury, which she invariably won, have put this important office within her reach. Few who heard her on these occasions will forget her withering attacks on the hapless Mr. Diamond over the Selective Employment Tax. “If only you had been a woman,” she used to observe with a touch of asperity, “you would not defend this tax. It simply won't work—and events will prove us right and you wrong.” [end p1] Not that Mrs. Thatcher is a “blue stocking” (the female intellectual type, I mean, not the kinky knee-length variety)—far from it; MA, BSc, barrister-at-law certainly. But as her appearances on “Any questions” and her down-to-earth approach to politics confirm, she is no hide-bound academician. I persuaded Mrs. Thatcher to leave the second day of the Rhodesian debate last Thursday night to spend an hour discussing her attitude to politics—in particular the role of women politicians—with me. And a highly stimulating diversion it proved to be. If not for her, for me. An ardent, but I should say a qualified feminist, she told me: “I think the answer is we have to do everything the men do—and a good deal more besides. “Everything the men do because the great issues such as defence, Rhodesia and Europe affect us all, the women just as much as the men—the children and the whole family. “In addition I think we have to put the special viewpoint of people like widows and the single lady who is supporting elderly parents. Generally I think we have a wider understanding of problems affecting the family, and of matters such as health and welfare. “The position is quite well illustrated by the special interests taken by women in politics now. “In days gone by they were used almost exclusively on the welfare side. It was common for Prime Ministers to select women politicians to go to the Ministry of Pensions, the Ministry of Health, or the Ministry of Education. Or Ministries with a quasi-social responsibility. “Now while we are still expected to have a special knowledge of these subjects modern Prime Ministers have also sent women to the Home Office (Dame Patricia Hornsby-Smith, Miss Mervyn Pike and Miss Alice Bacon); Commonwealth Relations (Mrs. Judith Hart; and the Foreign Office (Mrs. Eirene White). “Women MPs nowadays speak on defence. Dame Joan Vickers from Devonport on the navy especially. Dame Irene Ward from Tynemouth on shipping and shipbuildings. Both have an almost unrivalled knowledge of their subjects and are experts in the field. “As to the welfare side we have as I said earlier a much wider understanding of the actual practical problems involved. “Men are great theorists but they do not always consider how their ideas will in fact work out in practice. Often our approach is—Will it work and How will it help in practical terms?” I reminded Mrs. Thatcher that the time might come when she might have the opportunity to put some of her theories into practice, if and when, she became Chancellor. “Yes I ‘shadow’ the Treasury in debates,” she replied, “and if office comes my way one thing I should try to do is to attack the problem of differentials. “I think the differentials between the skilled and the unskilled, and the qualified and the unqualified, have become too narrow—maximums have become minimums but the maximums are not in fact advancing. “This is causing a lot of trouble among those who took years to attain their qualifications or among those who work especially hard for long hours. “This may mean increasing some of the indirect taxes—like Purchase Tax, Customs and Excise Duties—but at least people will have the money in their pockets. They could then choose whether or not to spend it in a way which attracted more tax. “A tax system in my opinion should try to help people help themselves. Ultimately this is to the benefit of the community. They call less on the State. This fosters personal responsibility. [end p2] “I would also like to see some tax relief given for savings. People who contract to save a certain amount each year should get some relief from taxation. “This wouldn't be revolutionary. We already give tax relief on one form of savings—life insurance premiums.” “We must reduce taxes on actual income so that people can keep a larger share of their own earnings and savings. Mrs. Thatcher is also concerned about the burden of taxation on married women who go out to work and declared bluntly: “It bears too heavily on them. They can't get any allowances for the domestic help they must have to enable them to go out and do a job. And the country needs them. “A married woman's tax starts at the rate where her husband's earnings leave off. “She may be taxed so heavily it is not really worthwhile her returning to work. “This is especially true of women with qualifications who are married to fairly successful husbands. On widows, Mrs. Thatcher said: “I have tried to do a good deal in the House to sort out the Estate Duty position. “In an area like Finchley owner-occupied houses command a high price. They therefore represent a high value on which Estate Duty may have to be paid. “This may well come as a shock to the widow when she has to find ready cash from the little store she may have been left to pay this Duty. “I myself feel that widows should have a special claim on the property their husbands leave and that the husband should be allowed to make provision for his widow—some of which is allowed against Death Duty she has to pay.” On the Selective Employment Tax she said it was always interesting to see how, and when, public opinion would react to a measure going through Parliament. During the summer months the Opposition (and she herself was prominent in it) attacked the tax, and she said: “We fought for the disabled, the widows, firms who have to employ many part-time workers, and for the elderly. “At the time we got extraordinarily little publicity and our many thousands of words had very little impact. “But since the tax came in at the beginning of September the complaints have poured in. “We were asked to fight for the very cases over which we spent so many long hours debating in the Chamber. “I think this is a ridiculous tax. It is not achieving the objects for which it was designed. “It was supposed to see that people were transferred from the services to manufacture. “So far it has resulted in a tremendous ‘shake-out’ (Mr. Wilson 's phrase) from the manufacturing industries, particularly in the Midlands. “Those who were working in the motor car industries—our greatest export earner—have now gone into the service industries. “In the London area we do not yet appreciate the problems of short time and unemployment now facing the Midlands. “I wish I could be more optimistic about the prospects next year. “I believe unemployment will rise and that business generally will be much worse than it has been this year. “One almost always finds that economic measures really grip 18 months after they are imposed. “It is easier to run a country down than to start it up again. “Government, like a business, depends tremendously on the calibre and experience of those who are running it. “I believe one of our problems has been that those in charge of our affairs now have very little practical experience outside politics. They therefore do not recognise the limitations and impossibilities of some of their own policies. “It is often said now that politics is a job entirely for the professionals. I disagree. It is very easy at Westminster to get out of touch with reality. “Sometimes I think we debate not the actual problems but those which ceased to exist some time ago—or those which only exist at the propaganda level. “Change is very rapid today. “It is vital to have someone in the House on every side who is in touch with the things which are happening now, and who can speak from experience about the subject. “Not merely from having read all about it. “I am very much against the House sitting in the morning as well as in the afternoon and evening. I think we would become more and more a ‘talking shop’ and less and less a body which shapes policy for the future.” [end p3] Despite her poise Mrs. Thatcher has always been in a hurry. Within weeks of her election to Parliament in 1959, she made her maiden speech. Not on foreign affairs or in a major debate, but moving the Second Reading of her Private Members' Bill on the Public Bodies (Admission of the Press) Bill, a subject frequently referred to in our columns. Incidentally, she made history by being the newest of new members to undertake the piloting of private legislation. It reached the Statute Book in October 1960 and codifies Parliament's view on the issue. Born in Grantham, Lincolnshire, she was born into politics so to speak. Her father, a local grocer, with over 25 years in local government, takes a prominent part in most voluntary societies and bodies in the district, including Rotary, and the local National Savings Committee. He is also chairman of the Girls' Grammar School. “I was used to a home where Alfred Robertsfather was doing a great deal of voluntary work during the day or in the evenings,” she told me with a smile. Educated at Kesteven School and Grantham Grammar School, she went on to Sommerville College, Oxford University, where she took a chemistry degree—MA, BSc. “I was always rather fascinated with the process of the law and sometimes went to watch the local magistrates' courts, particularly when my father was on the Bench. Eventually I started to read for the law in my spare time and finally qualified as a barrister. “I took a fairly active interest in politics while I was at Oxford and became President of the University Conservative Association and this gave me the opportunity of meeting the prominent politicians of the day. “It was eventually suggested to me that I should stand for Parliament, which I first did for Dartford, Kent, in 1950, and again in 1951.” Mrs. Thatcher didn't tell me, but the records show that her efforts there resulted in the Labour majority being reduced from 20,000 to 12,000, quite an achievement. Fighting the neighbouring constituency of Bexley was Mr. Edward Heath—now the Conservative Party's leader—who helped her a lot, and who has now picked her as one of his chief lieutenants in the Commons. After the 1951 election—then Miss Margaret Hilda Roberts—she married Mr. Denis Thatcher, Chairman and managing director of Atlas Preservative Company, of Erith, Kent. “Paints, not jams,” she said with a smile. They have 13-year-old twins—a boy, Mark, and a girl, Carol. Mark is at Belmont Preparatory School, Mill Hill, and has just got his Common Entrance to Harrow. He starts there in January. Carol is at a girls' school—Queenswood, Hatfield. The Thatchers have a flat in London— “just a stone's throw from the House of Commons,” and moved this week during the school holidays, to a new cottage at Lamberhurst, Kent, where they like to relax, work permitting, with the family. It is conveniently placed to Mr. Thatcher 's factory. Husband and son are keen sportsmen—particularly interested in cricket. Mark attends the Middlesex County cricket training school in East End Road, Finchley. [end p4] In common with many members on all sides of the House, Mrs. Thatcher is worried about the present pace of Parliamentary legislation. She believes that measures are being rushed through with insufficient consideration. An apparent desire to get the debates over and into the division lobbies to vote. In particular she disliked the manner in which the Bill postponing the London elections was hustled through. She also thought the Rhodesia debate was dominated to an inordinate extent by Front Bench spokesmen including the Prime Minister himself, and by Privy Councillors. This left far too little time in her opinion for back-benchers some of whom have intimate personal and business knowledge of the problem. “There is just too much legislation,” she told me. “Parliament is being asked to do too much too quickly. “I'm sure the public did not realise the importance of the Selective Employment Tax until it hit their pockets when it was implemented in September. But it was law before we got up for the Summer Recess in August.” “Sitting two mornings a week won't improve matters. It will just increase the flood—it will not give us additional time to think about what is before us now.” Possibly because she is so much in the public eye, Mrs. Thatcher has a substantial post at the House of Commons, most of it from constituents. Much of it concerns housing and town planning. As far as the allocation of council houses is concerned, this is of course, entirely a matter for the local authority. “But,” she says, “it is part of my job to know exactly how far Government policy requires to be changed to meet the local position. “I therefore go round seeing many housing conditions for myself. This often makes me realise how fortunate most of us are to have comfortable and happy homes to live in. “Building permission has to be obtained from the local authority and I like to go round and see some of the sites so I know what is going on before the complaints—if any—reach me. “I know examples of good and bad planning in the constituency.” Picture caption A break from politics for Mrs. Thatcher. She visits an exhibition by two Finchley artists at the North Finchley Public Library, and is seen here admiring a portrait by Miss Rose K. Hugh-Jones of her sister Miss D. Hugh-Jones. Pictured with her, Miss D. Hugh-Jones, the other artist exhibiting Miss Helen Reid, and Miss Rose K. Hugh-Jones. Mrs. Thatcher describes herself as “very fond” of the arts—painting, music and the theatre, and regrets that the pressure of her parliamentary duties does not give her sufficient time to enjoy them to the full. The exhibition is now on view at the East Finchley Public Library until December 31. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mrs margaret thatcher finchley mp personify beauty intelligence british political scene history woman chancellor exchequer lead opposition finance spokesman leave mark indelibly year budget debate confidently place list job conservative power westminster mastery complicated clause finance bill debate summer recess tussle mr john diamond chief secretary treasury invariably win important office reach hear occasion forget wither attack hapless mr diamond selective employment tax woman observe touch asperity defend tax simply will not work event prove right wrong end mrs thatcher blue stocking female intellectual type mean kinky kneelength variety far ma bsc barristeratlaw certainly appearance question downtoearth approach politic confirm hidebound academician persuade mrs thatcher leave second day rhodesian debate thursday night spend hour discuss attitude politic particular role woman politician highly stimulating diversion prove ardent qualified feminist tell think answer man good deal man great issue defence rhodesia europe affect woman man child family addition think special viewpoint people like widow single lady support elderly parent generally think wide understanding problem affect family matter health welfare position illustrate special interest take woman politic day go exclusively welfare common prime minister select woman politician ministry pension ministry health ministry education ministry quasisocial responsibility expect special knowledge subject modern prime minister send woman home office dame patricia hornsbysmith miss mervyn pike miss alice bacon commonwealth relations mrs judith hart foreign office mrs eirene white woman mp nowadays speak defence dame joan vicker devonport navy especially dame irene ward tynemouth shipping shipbuilding unrivalled knowledge subject expert field welfare say early wide understanding actual practical problem involve man great theorist consider idea fact work practice approach work help practical term remind mrs thatcher time come opportunity theory practice chancellor yes shadow treasury debate reply office come way thing try attack problem differential think differential skilled unskilled qualified unqualified narrow maximum minimum maximum fact advance cause lot trouble take year attain qualification work especially hard long hour mean increase indirect taxis like purchase tax custom excise duty people money pocket choose spend way attract tax tax system opinion try help people help ultimately benefit community state foster personal responsibility end like tax relief give saving people contract save certain year relief taxation not revolutionary tax relief form saving life insurance premium reduce taxis actual income people large share earning saving mrs thatcher concerned burden taxation marry woman work declare bluntly bear heavily not allowance domestic help enable job country need married womans tax start rate husband earning leave tax heavily worthwhile return work especially true woman qualification married fairly successful husband widow mrs thatcher say try good deal house sort estate duty position area like finchley owneroccupie house command high price represent high value estate duty pay come shock widow find ready cash little store leave pay duty feel widow special claim property husband leave husband allow provision widow allow death duty pay selective employment tax say interesting public opinion react measure go parliament summer month opposition prominent attack tax say fight disabled widow firm employ parttime worker elderly time get extraordinarily little publicity thousand word little impact tax come beginning september complaint pour ask fight case spend long hour debate chamber think ridiculous tax achieve object design suppose people transfer service manufacture far result tremendous shakeout mr wilson s phrase manufacturing industry particularly midland work motor car industry great export earner go service industry london area appreciate problem short time unemployment face midland wish optimistic prospect year believe unemployment rise business generally bad year find economic measure grip month impose easy run country start government like business depend tremendously calibre experience run believe problem charge affair little practical experience outside politic recognise limitation impossibility policy say politics job entirely professional disagree easy westminster touch reality think debate actual problem cease exist time ago exist propaganda level change rapid today vital house touch thing happen speak experience subject merely having read house sit morning afternoon evening think talk shop body shape policy future end despite poise mrs thatcher hurry week election parliament maiden speech foreign affair major debate move second reading private member bill public body admission press bill subject frequently refer column incidentally history new new member undertake piloting private legislation reach statute book october codifie parliament view issue bear grantham lincolnshire bear politic speak father local grocer year local government take prominent voluntary society body district include rotary local national saving committee chairman girl grammar school home alfred robertsfather great deal voluntary work day evening tell smile educate kesteven school grantham grammar school go sommerville college oxford university take chemistry degree ma bsc fascinated process law go watch local magistrate court particularly father bench eventually start read law spare time finally qualified barrister take fairly active interest politic oxford president university conservative association give opportunity meet prominent politician day eventually suggest stand parliament dartford kent mrs thatcher not tell record effort result labour majority reduce achievement fight neighbouring constituency bexley mr edward heath conservative partys leader help lot pick chief lieutenant common election miss margaret hilda roberts marry mr denis thatcher chairman managing director atlas preservative company erith kent paint jam say smile twin boy mark girl carol mark belmont preparatory school mill hill get common entrance harrow start january carol girl school queenswood hatfield thatcher flat london stone throw house common move week school holiday new cottage lamberhurst kent like relax work permit family conveniently place mr thatcher s factory husband son keen sportsman particularly interested cricket mark attend middlesex county cricket training school east end road finchley end common member side house mrs thatcher worried present pace parliamentary legislation believe measure rush insufficient consideration apparent desire debate division lobby vote particular dislike manner bill postpone london election hustle think rhodesia debate dominate inordinate extent bench spokesman include prime minister privy councillor leave far little time opinion backbencher intimate personal business knowledge problem legislation tell parliament ask quickly m sure public realise importance selective employment tax hit pocket implement september law get summer recess august sit morning week will not improve matter increase flood additional time think possibly public eye mrs thatcher substantial post house common constituent concern housing town planning far allocation council house concern course entirely matter local authority say job know exactly far government policy require change meet local position round see housing condition make realise fortunate comfortable happy home live building permission obtain local authority like round site know go complaint reach know example good bad planning constituency picture caption break politic mrs thatcher visit exhibition finchley artist north finchley public library see admire portrait miss rise k hughjone sister miss d hughjone picture miss d hughjone artist exhibit miss helen reid miss rise k hughjones mrs thatcher describe fond art paint music theatre regret pressure parliamentary duty sufficient time enjoy exhibition view east finchley public library december copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill reclaims unused employment-based immigrant visas from FY2020 and FY2021 and makes such unused visas available in FY2022, for the purposes of calculating the total number of employment-based immigrant visas available each fiscal year. If, at the end of FY2022, there are still unused FY2020 and FY2021 visas, these unused visas shall be available in subsequent fiscal years until they are all used.

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bill reclaim unused employmentbase immigrant visa make unused visa available purpose calculate total number employmentbase immigrant visa available fiscal year end unused visa unused visa shall available subsequent fiscal year

This bill requires prior congressional approval of any executive agency mandate that requires wearing masks or face coverings on commercial aircraft, trains, vessels, and public transportation. Before such a mandate may take effect, an agency must publish in the Federal Register and provide Congress and the Government Accountability Office (GAO) with scientific data, cost-benefit and economic impact analyses, and other information about the mandate's rationale. The GAO must, within 15 days, provide a report to Congress that assesses (1) the agency's compliance with the bill's provisions, and (2) the effect of the mask mandate on private-sector activity. Generally, the mandate shall not go into effect unless Congress approves it through a joint resolution; the bill sets procedures for the consideration of the joint resolution. However, the mandate may temporarily go into effect without congressional approval if the President determines the mandate is necessary to address (1) imminent health or safety threats or other emergencies, (2) the enforcement of criminal laws, or (3) national security.

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bill require prior congressional approval executive agency mandate require wear mask face covering commercial aircraft train vessel public transportation mandate effect agency publish federal register provide congress government accountability office gao scientific data costbenefit economic impact analysis information mandate rationale gao day provide report congress assess agencys compliance bill provision effect mask mandate privatesector activity generally mandate shall effect congress approve joint resolution bill set procedure consideration joint resolution mandate temporarily effect congressional approval president determine mandate necessary address imminent health safety threat emergency enforcement criminal law national security

This bill requires the Department of State to develop a strategy for expanding open access to the internet and other telecommunications services in Cuba and for countering efforts by the Communist Party of Cuba to disrupt such access. The State Department must also report to Congress on its actions taken to implement the strategy and additional resources needed to increase access to telecommunications services in Cuba.

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bill require department state develop strategy expand open access internet telecommunication service cuba counter effort communist party cuba disrupt access state department report congress action take implement strategy additional resource need increase access telecommunications service cuba

Speeches, etc. 3.52 p.m. The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Denis Healey) I beg to move, At this moment the nation stands at what is always the most critical point in the path of an economic recovery—the point at which output is beginning to increase again but employment has not yet begun to respond to the increase in output. If at this point the Government or the public panic, if there is a collapse of nerve, the consequences can be disastrous, as was proved when the Conservative Party was in power. Therefore, this afternoon I want to describe the situation as I see it and to suggest what can be done to deal with the present intolerable level of unemployment without jeopardising all the advantages that the British people have won so painfully through their sacrifices in the last year. In recent months our economic prospects have been transformed, largely as a result of the agreement reached between the Government and the trade unions last July on dealing with cost inflation in the current wage round. But the major areas of improvement which we can already record for 1975 were predictable and, indeed, were predicted even earlier. I forecast in my Budget speech last April that in the second six months of last year the rise in the Retail Price Index would be between 12 per cent. and 16 per cent. at an annual rate. In fact it was 14 per cent.—well under half what we endured in the first half of 1975. The main effect of the £6 limit on pay increases is yet to be felt, but few would now dispute that the Government have a very good prospect of achieving their target of reducing the annual rate of inflation to under 10 per cent. by the end of this year. The £6 limit has been universally observed. To date we know of major settlements within the policy covering well over 3 million workers. In addition [column 681]15 wages councils, covering over 750,000 workers, have agreed new statutory minimum remuneration in line with the policy. The Department of Employment has also been notified of 3,000 settlements covering smaller groups, and none of these is currently in breach of the policy. The policy is now overwhelmingly supported by those whom it affects directly—by the General Council of the Trades Union Congress, by the rank and file of the trade union movement and, according to reports of a survey recently conducted by Political and Economic Planning, by conveners and shop stewards throughout industry. I hope I am right in saying that, whatever its earlier hesitations and conclusions, the Opposition Front Bench, at least in its majority, now recognises that the White Paper which it asked the House not to approve in July is in fact making a major contribution towards the resolution of our economic problems. In addition to its direct impact on our own affairs in Britain, the new policy for incomes has also transformed our reputation throughout the world. When I was in Jamaica for the IMF meeting a few weeks ago, I found my colleagues unstinting in their admiration of what we in Britain had achieved and for the relationship between the Government and the trade unions which made it possible. The House will note that at least five other Governments are currently attempting to imitate our policy. It is worth recording that the new relationship between the Government and the trade unions has brought an immense improvement in industrial relations too. Britain lost fewer days last year through industrial stoppages than in any year since 1968—less than one-third of the massive 24 million days clocked up in 1972 when confrontation was the order of the day. We have made equally good progress on the balance of payments. Our current account deficit last year was well under half that in 1974. It fell from £3.7 billion to £1.7 billion in 12 months. It is true that this improvement, as in all industrial countries, owed much to the effects on imports of the world recession and to the improvement in the terms of trade compared with the savage blows we all suffered in 1973 and 1974. [column 682] But the world recession also involved a heavy fall in world demand for our goods. Indeed, the fall in demand was a good deal sharper in most of the main manufacturing countries than in Britain. Despite that, however, our share in the manufactured exports of the main industrial countries rose from 8¾ per cent. in 1974 to 9½ per cent. in the first half of 1975. Figures for the second half of the year are not yet available, but it looks as if we actually increased our share in world trade last year, although the competition was a good deal stiffer than in normal times. I hope the House will agree that that was an encouraging achievement by any standard. There are encouraging features also in our performance on import substitution. The volume of our imports of finished manufactures fell by 7½ per cent., whereas the fall in manufacturing production was substantially less—about 5½ per cent. in the first 11 months of the year. Of course, it is dangerous to build too much on our trade performance in a single year, particularly one as exceptional as last year. But the fact that our record has been better on both exports and imports than might have been expected gives us real grounds for satisfaction and for hope that a further increase in our exports will take place as world trade picks up. In fact, there are growing signs that the world recession has already bottomed out. In 1975 the total volume of world exports probably fell by about 6 per cent., but there seems to have been some pick-up in the fourth quarter of last year. There are obviously great uncertainties, but at present we would expect world trade to rise by about 7 per cent. in 1976 as a whole, accelerating throughout the year, and this will offer immense new opportunities to our exporters. Here in Britain the signs are multiplying that our recession may be coming to an end—if recovery has not already begun. As always, evidence about the immediate past is patchy, but such figures as we have are encouraging. For example, in the three months to November last year industrial production rose by 1.6 per cent. and manufacturing production rose by 1.2 per cent. The CBI's monthly survey shows in December more firms reporting an increase rather than a fall [column 683]in the volume of total new orders over that latest four-month period—the first time that this has happened for 18 months. Looking ahead, the CBI survey has shown for two months running a balance of firms expecting the volume of output to rise in the four months ahead—a better result than any seen earlier in 1975. Clear evidence that the recession in Britain may be ending also comes on the demand side. In the third quarter of last year gross domestic product by the output measure fell just ½ per cent., compared with 2½ per cent. between the first and second quarter. GDP on the expenditure measure was virtually unchanged in the third quarter, and total final expenditure—that is the sum of consumption, all investment and exports—actually rose by ½ per cent. Destocking has also fallen back sharply and may have passed its peak. We can now extend the evidence on the demand side into the fourth quarter of last year. The provisional estimate for consumer expenditure in the last three months showed only a very marginal fall—very much less than the 1½ per cent. fall in consumer spending during the third quarter. Exports have done well, too, particularly on food, materials and chemicals. They grew over 7 per cent. in volume terms in the fourth quarter, partly, I believe, in response to improving world trade, particularly in North America and European markets. All this suggests that Britain is now beginning to pull out of the recession so far as economic activity, output and demand are concerned. The one exception to these encouraging statistics is, of course, the main subject of this debate. Unemployment figures are still rising, as I forecast they would in our recent debates. The figures here must give us all profound concern. But they do not need the sort of exaggeration that they have received in some parts of the Press, and the more alarming predictions made in some quarters last year have proved very far ahead of the reality. The fact is that we ended 1975 with unemployment under 1,200,000, as I predicted we would in September. The January figures are serious enough. For the United Kingdom as a whole, the seasonally adjusted rate, excluding school [column 684]leavers and adult students, reached 5.2 per cent., a total of 1,205,000, and an increase of 42,300 over the December level. Most of the newspapers preferred to headline uncorrected figures. said the Daily Telegraph. “Nearly 1½ million men out of work” was the general cry. Of course, this is true enough if one eliminates the seasonal corrections which all Governments have made to take account, for example, of the normal winter fall in tourism and building, and if one includes over 116,000 students who signed on the unemployment register, on an entirely temporary basis, over the universities' Christmas break. But I wonder whether we shall see headlines in equally bold type next month screaming “Jobless fall 100,000” because those students have now gone back to college. The main exception to this type of exaggeration—apart from The Times—was the research organisation run by the Conservative Party and headed by the right hon. Lady the Leader of the Opposition and her Front Bench economic adviser, the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph). They claim that the true level of unemployment was 800,000, little over half the figure trumpeted by most of the newspapers and 400,000 fewer than the seasonally corrected figures issued by the Government. I must ask the right hon. Lady whether she will confirm that that is indeed her view. If it is, how can she justify her hysterical intervention at Question Time last week? The political editor of The Times asserted on Monday—I quote his words—the utter impossibility of the Shadow Cabinet But if the right hon. Lady accepts the view of her own research organisation, that is exactly what she did last week. I wonder whether Mr. David Wood will ever recover the virginal innocence that she so brutally outraged. Mrs. Margaret Thatcher (Finchley) The Centre for Policy Studies is not the Conservative Research Department and is not related to it. Whichever set of figures Denis Healeythe Chancellor uses, both show that unemployment has risen under the present Government and is still rising. Mr. Healey The right hon. Lady, as so often, has refused to answer a very relevant question. She is a director of the research organisation to which I have referred. Her Rasputin or Malvolio, the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East, is another director and, we are told, manages its studies. What we want to know is whether the right hon. Lady will tell us what her view is. Does she agree with her right hon. Friend, does she agree with the Daily Telegraph maximum figures or does she agree with the Government? If she believes that the figures issued by her Centre for Policy Studies were gross under-estimates, let her say so, and let her abolish her research organisation and replace her right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, North-East as her economic adviser by the right hon. Member for Worcester (Mr. Walker) because he has made it clear that he would be only too glad to have the job. As it is, the right hon. Lady's whole attitude towards unemployment, like that of many hon. Members who were infected by her hysteria last week—if I may quote the words of another newspaper which commonly supports her policy, the Daily Mail— “stinks of hypocrisy.” Mr. Eric S. Heffer (Liverpool, Walton) Is my right hon. Friend aware of the fact that many hon. Members on the Government side of the House are in no way affected by the hysteria of the right hon. Lady the Leader of the Opposition or any other Opposition Member? What we are deeply concerned about is the rise in real unemployment to the extent that areas in my constituency—— Mr. Dan Jones (Burnley) And mine. Mr. Heffer Certainly, but I am now talking about my constituency. Twenty per cent. of the people there are unemployed. That is what we are talking about, and not figures which come from Conservative Central Office or any other office. We are talking about the reality of our people's unemployment, and we are not going to have it. Mr. Healey I am well aware of the very deep and genuine feelings of many of my right hon. and hon. Friends. Indeed, I assure my hon. Friend that it is shared by the whole Cabinet. I propose to tell him this afternoon what we are planning to do about it in order to meet [column 686]it. [Interruption.] The hypocritical humbug of hon. Members such as the hon. Member for Stretford (Mr. Churchill), who has never shown the slighest sympathy in his whole career for ordinary working people, makes decent people retch. Mr. Churchill (Stretford) The right hon. Gentleman will recall coming to speak for me in my constituency in 1974, where, I may say, he was a great help. His principal theme was unemployment, and he implied to my constituents in a very industrial area that it would be lower if they voted Labour than if they voted Conservative. Today in the North-West there are 117,000 more people out of work than there were when his Government came to office. Mr. Healey I am grateful to the hon. Member for Stretford. He is of considerable help to me, and if he thinks that I am of help to him, so much the better. However, I shall demonstrate in a moment that what I predicted in that election speech, which I fear did not do enough to turn the tide against the hon. Member for Stretford, was the literal truth and was stated to be so by the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. and learned Member for Surrey, East (Sir G. Howe), who, we much regret, is not assisting in our deliberations today. The fact is that the seasonally corrected increase in unemployment this month at 42,300 was broadly the same as it was over the last three months of 1975 and less than the average from June to September. In this it reflects the slowing down of the recession in the middle of last year, but it does not yet reflect the bottoming out which appears to have occurred in the last quarter. That will produce a levelling off in unemployment in some months' time, and the actual fall in unemployment will then follow. An indispensable condition for successful economic management is to take account of the substantial lags between a change in overall demand for goods and services in the economy and the change in output which it generates and of the similar lag between the increase in output and the consequent fall in unemployment. Such lags between an action and its consequences are the very stuff of what used to be called political economy, and [column 687]they occur in almost every field. For example, changes in exchange rates and money supply are even slower to produce their effects. That is why it is essential always to consider the management of the economy over a period of years and always to be thinking as much of the likely situation in 12 months' time as of the situation tomorrow. In the current state of economic knowledge, it is not possible to be precise about the length of these lags. But it is prudent to assume that both between demand measures and output and between output and employment it could be about six months. For this reason, macroeconomic measures taken to increase demand—for example, the reflationary measures which some of my hon. Friends may press upon me today—may take a year to have much effect on unemployment. It is because of these lags that if I now increased domestic demand by macro-economic measures, this could have little significant effect on unemployment during the rest of this year. Domestic demand reflation now through a reduction in income tax, for example, would take some six months to have a noticeable effect on output and would take a further six months to have a significant effect on unemployment. The full effects of the measures would take even longer to come through. The great bulk of the output effect would take about a year and a half and the bulk of the unemployment effect would take up to two years to come through. Mr. Ian Mikardo (Bethnal Green and Bow) Will my right hon. Friend give way? Mr. Healey I suspect I know the point that my hon. Friend wishes to raise, and I shall be coming to it in a moment. If I am mistaken, I shall give way to my hon. Friend with the courtesy that I always display to him. I know that some of my hon. Friends believe that it is somehow possible to escape these lags and reduce unemployment faster by keeping out imports and thereby increasing the demand for British goods in Britain. But this might be even slower to affect employment. There would bound to be some administrative [column 688]delay, and employers in the sectors which might hope to replace the excluded imports would be less inclined to take on additional labour or put up new plant or machinery to meet an increased demand for their products if they thought that the import controls would be temporary and the rise in demand would not be maintained in the long run. But there are more powerful arguments against such import controls. They would be unlikely to obtain the acquiescence of the foreign Governments concerned, especially at a time when our balance of payments was steadily improving and our rate of unemployment was in line with that of most of our competitors and substantially lower than in some countries like the United States. In that case, retaliation would be almost certain and this could cost us as much through loss of exports in terms of both jobs and the balance of payments, as we could gain from the increase in domestic demand. Mr. Mikardo I am obliged to my right hon. Friend for his courtesy, as always, in giving way to me. But he mistook my point. He has not met it. It is a very different one. It is that, if it takes some time for measures to find their way into extra employment, why is that a case for delaying them? Surely it is a case for getting on with them. Indeed, if my right hon. Friend had taken these measures when some of my hon. Friends and I first advocated them last summer, we should be seeing some results now. Mr. Healey I am immensely grateful to my hon. Friend, as I am so often. I shall deal with those two important points in a moment. As I was saying, if we adopted general import controls they would be unlikely to obtain the acquiescence of the foreign Governments concerned, retaliation would be likely and, in addition to the risk of losing as much through the loss of exports, in terms of both jobs and the balance of payments, as we could gain from the increase in domestic demand, there would be a real risk of starting a world trade war in which all countries would lose heavily, and the less-developed countries most of all. I must remind my hon. Friends who are attracted to that solution that that would risk turning [column 689]what is already the worst recession since the 1930s into a prolonged slump such as the world had to endure 40 years ago. I do not believe that any hon. Member would want to run that risk and that is why, for example, the Labour Party conference last year set itself against general import controls and was prepared to consider selective import controls only if they were not likely to provoke retaliation. To sum up this part of my argument, there is nothing that any British Chancellor of the Exchequer could do now by general reflation of domestic demand—whether by tax reductions, increases in public expenditure or import controls—which could reduce unemployment significantly this year in the months when it may still be rising. The time to have acted, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Mr. Mikardo) suggested, would have been in my Budget last April. But as I warned the House as long ago as November 1974, 18 months ago, the intolerable increase in wage inflation which took off in the autumn of that year ruled out that option. If I had continued in my Budget last April the stimulus that I gave the economy in July and November 1974, I would have brought the whole economy down in ruins. In fact I was compelled instead to increase taxation and not to cut it. But, thank God, the British people learned their lesson in time—I may say with no help from the Opposition Front Bench. The unprecedented success of the attack on inflation that we launched last July—— Mr. Peter Tapsell (Horncastle) rose—— Mr. Healey The House will recognise that I have given way several times already and that I must be allowed to get on with my speech—— Mr. Tapsell rose—— Hon. Members Give way. Mr. Healey I shall give way to the hon. Member for Horncastle (Mr. Tapsell) presently, but not just now. The unprecedented success of the attack on inflation that we launched last July, against the wishes of the Opposition [column 690]Front Bench, has given me a freedom of action this year which simply did not exist last year. But it will still be a difficult matter of judgment to decide whether any increase in domestic demand is called for in my next Budget. At the moment it seems likely that the increase in both output and employment, particularly in manufacturing industry, will be rather fast next year. Demand will also be rising fast. An increase in world trade will be increasing our exports. Industry has already declared its intention to make a big increase in investment next year. Stock-building will have resumed. There will also be some increase in consumer spending. If that proves to be the case, a further big stimulus to demand by action this year might turn out to be as ill-timed and disastrous as the piling of one reflationary measure on another by the previous Administration when they panicked in July 1971 and started a consumption boom which they pumped up still further in the Budget of 1972. Mr. Tapsell When the right hon. Gentleman talks about a reflationary boom being pumped up by the Conservative Government and the British people having now learnt their lesson, may I ask him to bear in mind that when he reduced taxation in July 1974 my hon. Friend the Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen) and I warned him of the effects of that and divided the House against him? He claimed that the measures were necessary at the time. Will he bear in mind that the inflation and unemployment from which we are now suffering are very largely the result of those electioneering tactics? Mr. Healey I know that that is the hon. Gentleman's view and the view of the hon. Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen), who, I am delighted to see, has now joined the Opposition Front Bench. The hon. Gentleman will recall that, although the official Opposition tabled a motion against those measures in July 1971, in the event they skulked in the back rooms of the House of Commons and failed to vote. Only 30 hon. Members joined the hon. Member in the Lobby. Good luck to them. At least they had the courage of their convictions, if that is what it was—unlike the right hon. Lady now sitting on the Opposition Front Bench. [column 691] I was referring to the measures taken by the previous Conservative Government in 1971 and 1972. I have been delighted to see, during the last 10 minutes of my speech, that the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East has been steadily nodding his agreement with what I have been saying. Indeed, there is no need to look into the crystal ball when we can read the book. The consequences of excessive reflation in 1971 and 1972 are now history. They brought about the collapse of the Barber boom in 1973 amid the most severe economic dislocations since the 1940s. Let me remind the House of the facts. In the autumn of 1973 bottlenecks and supply constraints appeared throughout industry. In the CBI survey of October 1973 a total of 51 per cent. of firms were reporting shortages of skilled labour as a factor limiting their output—two-thirds as much again as in the previous peak in 1969. A total of 49 per cent. of firms reported shortages of materials and components—three or four times as many as in 1969. Shortages of plant capacity were widely reported too. I hope that the right hon. Member for Lowestoft (Mr. Prior) will listen to what I and his right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, North-East are saying, because if he is to speak later in the debate he will have a lot of explaining to do as to how he interprets his rôle at that time. The fact is that the short-lived recovery generated by the reflationary measures of 1971 and 1972 was strangled in the autumn of 1973, even before the oil crisis hit us. The consequences for the balance of payments were equally disastrous. As the reflationary programme gathered pace through 1972, imports rose 11½ per cent. compared with an increase of only 2.1 per cent. for exports. In 1973 the experience was repeated, though in a less extreme form. On top of this body blow to our balance of payments the boom dealt a heavy blow to our manufacturing industry. The proportion of our total expenditure taken by manufacturing imports rose from 6½ per cent. in 1971 to nearly 9 per cent. in 1973. Parallel with these immediate economic catastrophes this consumer-led boom set a monetary time bomb ticking away which has certainly helped to bring about the explosion of inflation in the [column 692]past two years. I gather that the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East and the hon. Member for Oswestry share the monetarist view that the last Government's monetary profligacy in 1973 was the main cause of the inflation which reached its peak last year. Perhaps they are too unfair to the Government they then supported. It is a fact that through 1973 the money supply, M3, grew 28¾ per cent.—well over twice the rate of money GDP. As a result, lending for property rocketed, the price of housing, land and building followed and when the bubble burst the secondary banking system suffered a shipwreck from which it has not yet been finally rescued. The House may feel that it is not altogether suitable for the crumbling relics of the disastrous administration which brought about that unprecedented catastrophe in our economic affairs to table an amendment telling me how to deal with the same problem today. The country can count itself fortunate that the leaders of our trade union movement have not forgotten the lessons of that bitter experience. They have explicitly made it clear again and again in recent months—and repeated it this week—that they are not asking me to engineer a general reflation at this time. Mr. David Crouch (Canterbury) The right hon. Gentleman said a few minutes ago that he would say something more about investment. I believe that he may be in danger of inadvertently misleading the House. The view of the Government was apparently expressed by the Secretary of State for Industry two weeks ago when he said he was dismayed that the rate of investment by manufacturing industry was the lowest for 12 years. He was depressed to think that it would not rise in time to meet an upturn in world demand. Surely this should be one of the matters at which the Chancellor ought to be looking if we are to resolve the unemployment problem. Mr. Healey I shall deal with this point. I agree that it is one of the keys to improving our economic performance. So far I have been explaining why I cannot at the moment consider a general reflation of the type which the last Government engineered so disastrously four or five years ago. I am coming now to the measures that I believe I can take. Sir Keith Joseph (Leeds, North-East) The right hon. Gentleman is quick to make accusations of humbug and hypocrisy. Will he accept that in 1971 and 1972 the Labour Opposition Front Bench was clamouring for increased demand and went on clamouring for increased demand and was nothing like the responsible Opposition which the Government now face? Mr. Healey With respect, I find it scarcely possible to parallel the levity of the right hon. Gentleman. It is too soon at present to decide whether some reflation of demand would be desirable when I present my Budget in a few months' time. What is already clear, however, is that the scale of any measures which may be desirable when that time comes will depend to an important degree on the assumptions I am then able to make about the likely course of inflation once the current pay round is completed. This in turn depends, above all, on what voluntary policy for incomes can be agreed for the next wage round. If we can safely plan on continuing to reduce the rate of inflation right through 1977, my freedom of action as Chancellor in the next Budget will be substantially enlarged. Our exports will be that bit more competitive, the readiness of industry to invest will be increased. Indeed, there are few areas of our economy which will not benefit. Above all, we shall be able to look to a faster reduction in unemployment than would otherwise have been the case. Just as inflation produces unemployment, so a fall in the inflation rate will produce more jobs. I know that millions of trade unionists, like all of my right hon. and hon. Friends, are deeply disappointed that the level of unemployment is not already falling. But I have been warning the country for many months that there would be a delay of some months between the recovery in output and the fall in unemployment. This afternoon I have tried to explain why. No one can deny that because the £6 limit on pay has been maintained unemployment now is lower than it otherwise would have been. I was glad to see that Mr. Hugh Scanlon accepted this point on television recently. I hope he would also agree that, whatever his disappointment at the latest unemployment figures, this [column 694]would be no ground for refusing to continue the pay policy in any form for another year. He must accept that the only result of that would be to make unemployment next year worse than it need be. But no one should underestimate the real strains imposed upon the leadership of the trade union movement by the present appalling unemployment level or the demoralisation of those who cannot obtain a job. The Government are firmly convinced that the future of our economy depends on maintaining the sort of co-operation between the Government and the trade unions—and working people as a whole—which contributed so much towards improving our economy last year. We have proved that co-operation is infinitely preferable to confrontation, and we shall not neglect any measure which may help to relieve the strains and sufferings imposed by unemployment. As I made clear in September and again in December, the Government are determined to take any effective steps open to them to reduce the level of unemployment. We shall continue to do everything that can sensibly be done to save and protect jobs in the next few months and bring forward the coming decline in unemployment to the earliest possible moment. Mr. Norman Atkinson (Tottenham) One of the things that trade unionists have been saying to my right hon. Friend for some time is that now is the time to make available resources for the manufacture of capital goods, not consumer goods, goods to be put on the shelves for use when the upturn comes. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the EEC Commissioners responsible have told the Government that they will not permit resources of that kind being made available? That has been widely reported in the European Press, on the basis of statements issued. Is it true that the Common Market is preventing the Government from making resources available to meet the request made to them by the trade unions? Mr. Healey I understand the impatience of my hon. Friends, and I have given way to them as I have to Opposition Members. I shall deal with this point. An argument is proceeding with [column 695]the Commission, but the Government are determined to adopt whatever measures may be helpful in this area. I shall refer to some in a moment. I have said that we shall do everything we can to save and protect jobs and bring forward to the earliest possible moment the decline in unemployment. I wish I could feel that that objective was shared by the Opposition. But the right hon. and learned Member for Surrey, East made clear the other day that he wants steps which will increase unemployment in the short term, just when the need for action to reduce it is at its peak. In his speech last Thursday he made clear that his party will continue to press for cuts in public spending now. He added—and I think this was the first time he has admitted this in a public speech: The right hon. and learned Gentleman is not here this afternoon. I had planned to take advantage of his first flush of frankness and ask him to answer the question I have put to him in vain so often. I now put the same question to the hon. Member for St. Ives (Mr. Nott). Even if he is not prepared to itemise the cuts in public spending which he wants this year, can he tell us at least by how many hundreds of thousands he is prepared to see unemployment increase in the short term as a result of those cuts? Unless he is prepared to do so, we must regard the welcome honesty of the right hon. and learned Gentleman's speech last Thursday, however valuable it may have been in seeking to correct the instant opportunism of his Leader at Question Time two days earlier, as just another flash in the pan. Evasion, humbug and hypocrisy continue to rule on the Opposition Front Bench. Mr. Nigel Lawson (Blaby) Is not the Chancellor aware that only last Friday his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, speaking in Anglesey, said that, if public expenditure were not cut now as a proportion of GNP, democracy and freedom would be in danger? Mr. Healey The hon. Gentleman does not read very carefully, nor does he listen very carefully. What my right hon. Friend was talking about was cuts in [column 696]public expenditure after the next financial year. Mr. Lawson No. He said that we must cut so as not to exceed the present 60 per cent. of GNP. Mr. Healey Nonsense. My right hon. Friend was talking about cuts in public expenditure after the next financial year, cuts which will maintain employment in the public sector as a whole but also enable employment to be maintained in manufacturing industry, particularly in the capital sector which my hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr. Atkinson) is, like me, so anxious to expand. We on this side of the House totally reject the right hon. and learned Gentleman's approach. As the House knows, my right hon. Friends and I have in recent months introduced two sets of measures calculated not to raise unemployment still further as the right hon. and learned Gentleman demands but to save and create more jobs in the immediate future. We have been discussing with our friends in the trade union movement what more can now be done. Mr. Wyn Roberts (Conway) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? Mr. Healey No. I told the House in December that the Government would be announcing further measures early in the new year to provide still more and better training. I hope that it will now be possible to go well beyond that and to present a further set of measures in several fields within a few weeks from now. The trade union leaders have made some valuable suggestions which we are already considering. The Manpower Services Commission has also put proposals to us, and we shall listen very carefully to proposals made by hon. Members in this debate. The most immediate need is for further measures to protect existing jobs and to provide new jobs in the coming months. I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment is considering bringing forward the operation of the Employment Protection Act for this purpose. We may also find it useful to extend the temporary employment subsidy, which has already helped to save over 15,000 workers from [column 697]redundancy. The recruitment subsidy for school leavers has helped over 15,000 young people to get jobs. An extension of this scheme, too, may be worth while. The scheme of job creation has already saved thousands of young men and women from the demoralisation of the dole and should ultimately provide 36,000 people with temporary jobs within the money already available. I hope that it may also be possible to give some further help to the construction industry. But perhaps the most important single objective which the Government must set themselves is to take whatever action can now be devised to ensure that the decline in unemployment, once its starts, is not frustrated once again by the sort of bottlenecks and supply constraints that brought recovery to a halt in 1973. This requires action on training, stockpiles and investment. Incidentally, I totally reject the view shared by the right hon. Member for Lowestoft and Mr. Clive Jenkins that unemployment is bound to remain over a million into the 1980s. This Prior-Jenkins axis is an entertaining novelty in our affairs. But I hope that the right hon. Lady the Leader of the Opposition will tell the House at this moment that she totally rejects the defeatist nonsense to which her Shadow Secretary of State for Employment yesterday committed himself and his party. Hon. Members Come on. Mr. Healey My hon. Friends are asking the right hon. Lady to tell us whether she rejects that nonsense. I sometimes find it easier to interpret her silences than her remarks. The speed at which we can get unemployment down and the level to which we can reduce it will depend not only on the success of our industrial strategy in reducing unit costs and making better use of existing investment but on ensuring that there is an adequate supply of the necessary skills available at the right place and the right time as the economy expands, that there are adequate supplies of essential materials and equipment and that there is a steady increase in investment to get that expansion going. As the House knows, since my Budget last April the Government have already increased expenditure on industrial training by £67 million. The new pro[column 698]posals of the Manpower Services Commission offer us the opportunity of a further expansion for the coming year. But I do not believe that we can be satisfied until we have developed a much more extensive training system on a permanent basis, along the lines of the Labour market policy which has been so successfully running for many years in Sweden. A few weeks ago I announced Government assistance to the British Steel Corporation to permit the stockpiling of £70 million worth of steel in the current year. We are now considering the possibility of similar assistance for stockbuilding in other areas where future needs can already be identified. This, too, can help to prevent the appearance of critical shortages of materials and equipment during the recovery, such as happened in 1973, as well as providing profitable employment in the coming months. But the key to full employment in the longer term lies with industrial investment. Here, too, there is a case for giving priority to areas where shortages of capacity may otherwise appear when the recovery is under way. Getting new investment started as soon as possible will also help to bring down unemployment in the short term. There are obvious limits to what the Government can do to influence decisions on investment. But we are already doing very much more than has been done in similar situations in the past. As the House knows, we have introduced a scheme to provide financial assistance for investment projects which can be started by September this year but which have been stopped or postponed. About £34 million has already been earmarked for 10 major projects, including important expansions of capacity in ball bearings, pumps for diesel engines, and pharmaceuticals. The original allocation for this scheme was £40 million, which we later boosted to £70 million, and £20 million was added for modernisation projects. As the scheme gets better known, and no doubt also as the deadline approaches, applications are coming in at an increasing rate. We have therefore decided to make available a further £30 million and to consider applications for projects below the £½ million threshold. This is making this help available to smaller projects than we have hitherto envisaged, [column 699]and it will be of help particularly in the engineering sector. Most of this money goes in the form of interest relief grants, lowering the effective rate of interest on the investment financing. This means that the total value of projects brought forward is much higher than the Exchequer cost, by a factor of five or six to one. If the whole £120 million is spent, around £600 million of new investment will have been stimulated. Although not all of this investment will take place in 1976 and 1977, it is equivalent to 6 per cent. to 7 per cent. of the total manufacturing investment foreseen in the investment intentions survey. That is a very significant addition. We cannot be precise about the number of jobs this will create, either while the installation work is being done or permanently when the new plant is operating, but it will certainly help. There remains enormous scope for a rapid increase in investment without such Government assistance. If we are to believe the recent inquiries made of industry, there are still thousands of firms in this country, particularly the smaller ones, which at present plan to cut investment once again this year, yet these same firms express a firm intention to increase investment very substantially in 1977. If they wait that long, I believe they will be taking a very short-sighted view of their own interests. The capital goods that they want are likely to be cheaper and more readily available this year than in 1977. Moreover, investment this year can be relied on to meet the peak of world demand. Delay, as so often in the past, could mean missing that peak. Many big British firms, like ICI, learnt this lesson long ago. If firms wait until the surplus capacity which they have at present it brought fully back into use, it may well be too late to order new plant and bring it into operation before the demand has gone elsewhere, with markets lost to overseas competitors. There is one apparent impediment to early investment which I can remove immediately. As the CBI and others have told me, this is the uncertainty about the future of deferred tax liability on stock appreciation. My last two Budgets gave a very large measure of relief to industry for increases in stock values, and I know that in spite of reassurances some com[column 700]panies are still apprehensive that this was a temporary measure only and that they may have to repay it this year. Let me say firmly that my next Budget will contain proposals for the continuation of stock relief in some form. I cannot yet say what form it will take nor how it will be related to the previous relief, but I can say that there is no question whatsoever of any general withdrawal of past relief. I have tried to give the House some idea of the measures the Government are now considering to get unemployment moving down as soon as possible. We intend to announce our decisions by the middle of next month. As I have said, our purpose is not only to save and create jobs in the coming months but in doing so to strengthen our capacity for continued growth with stable prices in the future. Thanks to the efforts made in the past year by all sections of our people, we now have it within our power to start moving up the international league table once again—to enter the upswing of an international trade cycle with our economy moving into balance, with our inflation rate still falling, and with a steady improvement in our industrial performance under way. Mr. Patrick Cormack (Staffordshire, South-West) rose—— Mr. Healey The last time an opportunity on this scale lay before us was in the autumn of 1970, thanks to the sacrifices made by the nation in the preceding two years. That time the opportunity was thrown away because a Conservative Government which won power by exploiting the strains imposed by those sacrifices squandered their patrimony and lost their nerve. I have rehearsed that lamentable story in my speech this afternoon. This time we must not panic. We must not lose our nerve. That is what the nation asks of us. I know we shall not fail it. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc pm chancellor exchequer mr denis healey beg moment nation stand critical point path economic recovery point output begin increase employment begin respond increase output point government public panic collapse nerve consequence disastrous prove conservative party power afternoon want describe situation suggest deal present intolerable level unemployment jeopardise advantage british people win painfully sacrifice year recent month economic prospect transform largely result agreement reach government trade union july deal cost inflation current wage round major area improvement record predictable predict early forecast budget speech april second month year rise retail price index cent cent annual rate fact cent half endure half main effect limit pay increase feel dispute government good prospect achieve target reduce annual rate inflation cent end year limit universally observe date know major settlement policy cover million worker addition column wage council cover worker agree new statutory minimum remuneration line policy department employment notify settlement cover small group currently breach policy policy overwhelmingly support affect directly general council trade union congress rank file trade union movement accord report survey recently conduct political economic planning convener shop steward industry hope right say early hesitation conclusion opposition bench majority recognise white paper ask house approve july fact make major contribution resolution economic problem addition direct impact affair britain new policy income transform reputation world jamaica imf meet week ago find colleague unstinte admiration britain achieve relationship government trade union possible house note government currently attempt imitate policy worth record new relationship government trade union bring immense improvement industrial relation britain lose few day year industrial stoppage year onethird massive million day clock confrontation order day equally good progress balance payment current account deficit year half fall billion billion month true improvement industrial country owe effect import world recession improvement term trade compare savage blow suffer column world recession involve heavy fall world demand good fall demand good deal sharper main manufacturing country britain despite share manufacture export main industrial country rise cent cent half figure second half year available look actually increase share world trade year competition good deal stiff normal time hope house agree encouraging achievement standard encourage feature performance import substitution volume import finish manufacture fall cent fall manufacturing production substantially cent month year course dangerous build trade performance single year particularly exceptional year fact record well export import expect give real ground satisfaction hope increase export place world trade pick fact grow sign world recession bottom total volume world export probably fall cent pickup fourth quarter year obviously great uncertainty present expect world trade rise cent accelerate year offer immense new opportunity exporter britain sign multiply recession come end recovery begin evidence immediate past patchy figure encourage example month november year industrial production rise cent manufacturing production rise cent cbis monthly survey show december firm report increase fall column volume total new order late fourmonth period time happen month look ahead cbi survey show month run balance firm expect volume output rise month ahead well result see early clear evidence recession britain end come demand quarter year gross domestic product output measure fall cent compare cent second quarter gdp expenditure measure virtually unchanged quarter total final expenditure sum consumption investment export actually rise cent destocking fall sharply pass peak extend evidence demand fourth quarter year provisional estimate consumer expenditure month show marginal fall cent fall consumer spending quarter export particularly food material chemical grow cent volume term fourth quarter partly believe response improve world trade particularly north america european market suggest britain begin pull recession far economic activity output demand concern exception encouraging statistic course main subject debate unemployment figure rise forecast recent debate figure profound concern need sort exaggeration receive part press alarming prediction quarter year prove far ahead reality fact end unemployment predict september january figure united kingdom seasonally adjust rate exclude school column adult student reach cent total increase december level newspaper prefer headline uncorrected figure say daily telegraph nearly million man work general cry course true eliminate seasonal correction government account example normal winter fall tourism building include student sign unemployment register entirely temporary basis university christmas break wonder shall headline equally bold type month scream jobless fall student go college main exception type exaggeration apart time research organisation run conservative party head right hon lady leader opposition bench economic adviser right hon member leed northeast sir k joseph claim true level unemployment little half figure trumpet newspaper few seasonally correct figure issue government ask right hon lady confirm view justify hysterical intervention question time week political editor time assert monday quote word utter impossibility shadow cabinet right hon lady accept view research organisation exactly week wonder mr david wood recover virginal innocence brutally outrage mrs margaret thatcher finchley centre policy study conservative research department relate whichever set figure denis healeythe chancellor use unemployment rise present government rise mr healey right hon lady refuse answer relevant question director research organisation refer rasputin malvolio right hon member leed northeast director tell manage study want know right hon lady tell view agree right hon friend agree daily telegraph maximum figure agree government believe figure issue centre policy study gross underestimate let let abolish research organisation replace right hon friend member leed northeast economic adviser right hon member worcester mr walker clear glad job right hon ladys attitude unemployment like hon member infect hysteria week quote word newspaper commonly support policy daily mail stink hypocrisy mr eric s heffer liverpool walton right hon friend aware fact hon member government house way affect hysteria right hon lady leader opposition opposition member deeply concerned rise real unemployment extent area constituency mr dan jones burnley mr heffer certainly talk constituency cent people unemployed talk figure come conservative central office office talk reality people unemployment go mr healey aware deep genuine feeling right hon hon friend assure hon friend share cabinet propose tell afternoon plan order meet column interruption hypocritical humbug hon member hon member stretford mr churchill show sligh sympathy career ordinary work people make decent people retch mr churchill stretford right hon gentleman recall come speak constituency great help principal theme unemployment imply constituent industrial area low vote labour vote conservative today northwest people work government come office mr healey grateful hon member stretford considerable help think help well shall demonstrate moment predict election speech fear turn tide hon member stretford literal truth state shadow chancellor exchequer right hon learn member surrey east sir g howe regret assist deliberation today fact seasonally correct increase unemployment month broadly month average june september reflect slowing recession middle year reflect bottoming appear occur quarter produce levelling unemployment month time actual fall unemployment follow indispensable condition successful economic management account substantial lag change overall demand good service economy change output generate similar lag increase output consequent fall unemployment lag action consequence stuff call political economy column occur field example change exchange rate money supply slow produce effect essential consider management economy period year think likely situation month time situation tomorrow current state economic knowledge possible precise length lag prudent assume demand measure output output employment month reason macroeconomic measure take increase demand example reflationary measure hon friend press today year effect unemployment lag increase domestic demand macroeconomic measure little significant effect unemployment rest year domestic demand reflation reduction income tax example month noticeable effect output month significant effect unemployment effect measure long come great bulk output effect year half bulk unemployment effect year come mr ian mikardo bethnal green bow right hon friend way mr healey suspect know point hon friend wish raise shall come moment mistaken shall way hon friend courtesy display know hon friend believe possible escape lag reduce unemployment fast keep import increase demand british good britain slow affect employment bind administrative column employer sector hope replace exclude import inclined additional labour new plant machinery meet increase demand product think import control temporary rise demand maintain long run powerful argument import control unlikely obtain acquiescence foreign government concern especially time balance payment steadily improve rate unemployment line competitor substantially low country like united states case retaliation certain cost loss export term job balance payment gain increase domestic demand mr mikardo oblige right hon friend courtesy give way mistake point meet different take time measure find way extra employment case delay surely case get right hon friend take measure hon friend advocate summer see result mr healey immensely grateful hon friend shall deal important point moment say adopt general import control unlikely obtain acquiescence foreign government concerned retaliation likely addition risk lose loss export term job balance payment gain increase domestic demand real risk start world trade war country lose heavily lessdevelope country remind hon friend attract solution risk turn column bad recession prolong slump world endure year ago believe hon member want run risk example labour party conference year set general import control prepared consider selective import control likely provoke retaliation sum argument british chancellor exchequer general reflation domestic demand tax reduction increase public expenditure import control reduce unemployment significantly year month rise time act hon friend member bethnal green bow mr mikardo suggest budget april warn house long ago november month ago intolerable increase wage inflation take autumn year rule option continue budget april stimulus give economy july november bring economy ruin fact compel instead increase taxation cut thank god british people learn lesson time help opposition bench unprecedented success attack inflation launch july mr peter tapsell horncastle rise mr healey house recognise give way time allow speech mr tapsell rise hon member way mr healey shall way hon member horncastle mr tapsell presently unprecedented success attack inflation launch july wish opposition column bench give freedom action year simply exist year difficult matter judgment decide increase domestic demand call budget moment likely increase output employment particularly manufacturing industry fast year demand rise fast increase world trade increase export industry declare intention big increase investment year stockbuilde resume increase consumer spending prove case big stimulus demand action year turn illtimed disastrous piling reflationary measure previous administration panic july start consumption boom pump budget mr tapsell right hon gentleman talk reflationary boom pump conservative government british people having learn lesson ask bear mind reduce taxation july hon friend member oswestry mr biffen warn effect divide house claim measure necessary time bear mind inflation unemployment suffer largely result electioneer tactic mr healey know hon gentleman view view hon member oswestry mr biffen delighted join opposition bench hon gentleman recall official opposition table motion measure july event skulk room house common fail vote hon member join hon member lobby good luck courage conviction unlike right hon lady sit opposition bench column refer measure take previous conservative government delighted minute speech right hon member leed northeast steadily nod agreement say need look crystal ball read book consequence excessive reflation history bring collapse barber boom amid severe economic dislocation let remind house fact autumn bottleneck supply constraint appear industry cbi survey october total cent firm report shortage skilled labour factor limit output twothird previous peak total cent firm report shortage material component time shortage plant capacity widely report hope right hon member lowestoft mr prior listen right hon friend member leed northeast say speak later debate lot explain interpret rôle time fact shortlive recovery generate reflationary measure strangle autumn oil crisis hit consequence balance payment equally disastrous reflationary programme gather pace import rise cent compare increase cent export experience repeat extreme form body blow balance payment boom deal heavy blow manufacturing industry proportion total expenditure take manufacture import rise cent nearly cent parallel immediate economic catastrophe consumerle boom set monetary time bomb tick away certainly help bring explosion inflation column year gather right hon member leed northeast hon member oswestry share monetarist view government monetary profligacy main cause inflation reach peak year unfair government support fact money supply grow cent twice rate money gdp result lend property rocket price housing land building follow bubble burst secondary banking system suffer shipwreck finally rescue house feel altogether suitable crumble relic disastrous administration bring unprecedented catastrophe economic affair table amendment tell deal problem today country count fortunate leader trade union movement forget lesson bitter experience explicitly clear recent month repeat week ask engineer general reflation time mr david crouch canterbury right hon gentleman say minute ago investment believe danger inadvertently mislead house view government apparently express secretary state industry week ago say dismay rate investment manufacture industry low year depressed think rise time meet upturn world demand surely matter chancellor ought look resolve unemployment problem mr healey shall deal point agree key improve economic performance far explain moment consider general reflation type government engineer disastrously year ago come measure believe sir keith joseph leed northeast right hon gentleman quick accusation humbug hypocrisy accept labour opposition bench clamour increase demand go clamouring increase demand like responsible opposition government face mr healey respect find scarcely possible parallel levity right hon gentleman soon present decide reflation demand desirable present budget month time clear scale measure desirable time come depend important degree assumption able likely course inflation current pay round complete turn depend voluntary policy income agree wage round safely plan continue reduce rate inflation right freedom action chancellor budget substantially enlarge export bit competitive readiness industry invest increase area economy benefit shall able look fast reduction unemployment case inflation produce unemployment fall inflation rate produce job know million trade unionist like right hon hon friend deeply disappointed level unemployment fall warn country month delay month recovery output fall unemployment afternoon try explain deny limit pay maintain unemployment low glad mr hugh scanlon accept point television recently hope agree disappointment late unemployment figure column ground refuse continue pay policy form year accept result unemployment year bad need underestimate real strain impose leadership trade union movement present appalling unemployment level demoralisation obtain job government firmly convinced future economy depend maintain sort cooperation government trade union work people contribute improve economy year prove cooperation infinitely preferable confrontation shall neglect measure help relieve strain suffering impose unemployment clear september december government determined effective step open reduce level unemployment shall continue sensibly save protect job month bring forward come decline unemployment early possible moment mr norman atkinson tottenham thing trade unionist say right hon friend time time available resource manufacture capital good consumer good good shelf use upturn come right hon friend confirm eec commissioner responsible tell government permit resource kind available widely report european press basis statement issue true common market prevent government make resource available meet request trade union mr healey understand impatience hon friend give way opposition member shall deal point argument proceed column commission government determined adopt measure helpful area shall refer moment say shall save protect job bring forward early possible moment decline unemployment wish feel objective share opposition right hon learn member surrey east clear day want step increase unemployment short term need action reduce peak speech thursday clear party continue press cut public spending add think time admit public speech right hon learn gentleman afternoon plan advantage flush frankness ask answer question vain question hon member st ive mr nott prepared itemise cut public spending want year tell hundred thousand prepared unemployment increase short term result cut prepared regard welcome honesty right hon learn gentleman speech thursday valuable seek correct instant opportunism leader question time day early flash pan evasion humbug hypocrisy continue rule opposition bench mr nigel lawson blaby chancellor aware friday right hon friend home secretary speak anglesey say public expenditure cut proportion gnp democracy freedom danger mr healey hon gentleman read carefully listen carefully right hon friend talk cut column expenditure financial year mr lawson say cut exceed present cent gnp mr healey nonsense right hon friend talk cut public expenditure financial year cut maintain employment public sector enable employment maintain manufacture industry particularly capital sector hon friend member tottenham mr atkinson like anxious expand house totally reject right hon learn gentleman approach house know right hon friend recent month introduce set measure calculate raise unemployment right hon learn gentleman demand save create job immediate future discuss friend trade union movement mr wyn roberts conway right hon gentleman way mr healey tell house december government announce measure early new year provide well training hope possible present set measure field week trade union leader valuable suggestion consider manpower services commission proposal shall listen carefully proposal hon member debate immediate need measure protect exist job provide new job come month know right hon friend secretary state employment consider bring forward operation employment protection act purpose find useful extend temporary employment subsidy help save worker column recruitment subsidy school leaver help young people job extension scheme worth scheme job creation save thousand young man woman demoralisation dole ultimately provide people temporary job money available hope possible help construction industry important single objective government set action devise ensure decline unemployment start frustrate sort bottleneck supply constraint bring recovery halt require action training stockpile investment incidentally totally reject view share right hon member lowestoft mr clive jenkin unemployment bind remain million priorjenkin axis entertaining novelty affair hope right hon lady leader opposition tell house moment totally reject defeatist nonsense shadow secretary state employment yesterday commit party hon member come mr healey hon friend ask right hon lady tell reject nonsense find easy interpret silence remark speed unemployment level reduce depend success industrial strategy reduce unit cost make well use exist investment ensure adequate supply necessary skill available right place right time economy expand adequate supply essential material equipment steady increase investment expansion go house know budget april government increase expenditure industrial training million new procolumn manpower services commission offer opportunity expansion come year believe satisfied develop extensive training system permanent basis line labour market policy successfully run year sweden week ago announce government assistance british steel corporation permit stockpiling million worth steel current year consider possibility similar assistance stockbuilde area future need identify help prevent appearance critical shortage material equipment recovery happen provide profitable employment come month key employment long term lie industrial investment case give priority area shortage capacity appear recovery way get new investment start soon possible help bring unemployment short term obvious limit government influence decision investment similar situation past house know introduce scheme provide financial assistance investment project start september year stop postpone million earmark major project include important expansion capacity ball bearing pump diesel engine pharmaceutical original allocation scheme million later boost million million add modernisation project scheme get well know doubt deadline approach application come increase rate decide available million consider application project million threshold make help available small project hitherto envisage column help particularly engineering sector money go form interest relief grant lower effective rate interest investment financing mean total value project bring forward high exchequer cost factor million spend million new investment stimulate investment place equivalent cent cent total manufacture investment foresee investment intention survey significant addition precise number job create installation work permanently new plant operate certainly help remain enormous scope rapid increase investment government assistance believe recent inquiry industry thousand firm country particularly small one present plan cut investment year firm express firm intention increase investment substantially wait long believe take shortsighted view interest capital good want likely cheap readily available year investment year rely meet peak world demand delay past mean miss peak big british firm like ici learn lesson long ago firm wait surplus capacity present bring fully use late order new plant bring operation demand go market lose overseas competitor apparent impediment early investment remove immediately cbi tell uncertainty future defer tax liability stock appreciation budget give large measure relief industry increase stock value know spite reassurance comcolumn apprehensive temporary measure repay year let firmly budget contain proposal continuation stock relief form form relate previous relief question whatsoever general withdrawal past relief try house idea measure government consider unemployment move soon possible intend announce decision middle month say purpose save create job come month strengthen capacity continued growth stable price future thank effort past year section people power start move international league table enter upswing international trade cycle economy move balance inflation rate fall steady improvement industrial performance way mr patrick cormack staffordshire southwest rise mr healey time opportunity scale lie autumn thank sacrifice nation precede year time opportunity throw away conservative government win power exploit strain impose sacrifice squander patrimony lose nerve rehearse lamentable story speech afternoon time panic lose nerve nation ask know shall fail copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Mrs. Thatcher May I ask Michael Footthe Leader of the House to state the business for the week when we return from the recess? The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Michael Foot) The business for the first week after the Adjournment will be as follows: Monday 9th January—Supply [3rd Allotted Day]: debate on a motion to take note of the First to Tenth Reports from the Select Committee on Public Accounts in Session 1976–77, and the related Treasury and Northern Ireland memoranda. Motion on the Parochial Registers and Records (Church of England) Measure. Tuesday 10th January and Wednesday 11th January—Further progress in Committee on the Scotland Bill. Thursday 12th January—Progress in Committee on the European Assembly Elections Bill. Friday 13th January—Private Members' motions. Mrs. Thatcher Can the Lord President give some indication how he proposes to deal in the future with the European Assembly Elections Bill? He was kind enough in the past to indicate that he intended to take about two days a week on the Scotland Bill. What are his plans for dealing with the European Assembly Elections Bill? Mr. Foot I think that we should first see how we proceed on Thursday 12th January. We can make up our minds after that. Mr. Raphael Tuck My right hon. Friend will be aware that, following an unsuccessful attempt by me two days ago to raise the matter of the Town and Country Planning General Development (Amendment) Order in the House and a subsequent meeting of a number of us with the Minister for Housing and Construction, it was announced last night that that order has now been withdrawn subject to further consideration. Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that that further consideration will include [column 917]time for debate in the House and that he will not try to bulldoze the whole thing through the House without adequate debate, which he appeared to be doing until the announcement last night? Mr. Foot There was no question of any bulldozing at all. What happened was that representations were made to me in the House—from both sides of the House, by my hon. Friend and by others—and representations were made in other meetings. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment responded to those requests, and that is the reason for the withdrawal of the order. Of course, he will now have further discussions with right hon. and hon. Members on this side—and perhaps with others—and with local authorities. We shall see how we shall proceed then. Far from it being a matter of bulldozing, it has been a matter of responding to the wishes of the House. Mr. Powell The right hon. Gentleman is aware that, following the decision of the Committee on Tuesday night, the Government have accepted that it will be necessary for them to bring forward amendments to the European Assembly Elections Bill. These will, no doubt, be amendments which the Government have had a long opportunity to consider. As they may be relevant to amendments and debates on the next day in Committee, could the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that those amendments will be tabled, if possible, before the House rises or at the latest on the first day after we return? Mr. Foot I certainly hope that we could accord with the second suggestion made by the right hon. Gentleman, if not with the first. If he is referring to the new clause which was promised, that is one aspect of the matter, and I should hope that that at any rate would be down by the first day when we return. I shall certainly look into the further question that the right hon. Gentleman has raised to see whether we can either get the amendments down before the House rises, or at any rate on the first day when we return. Mr. Hooley When shall we have an opportunity to discuss foreign policy, including the proposals in the Berrill Report? Mr. Foot We do not have proposals for such a debate at the moment. This is a matter that can be raised by others in the House, but I do not have any proposition for such a debate in the immediate future. Mr. Carlisle As one of the members of the Franks Committee which reported on the question of immigration as long ago as October of last year, and as we were told when that committee was set up by Mr. Jenkins that the purpose was for a report as a basis for debate, may I ask when it is proposed to have the debate on Franks Committee Report? Mr. Foot There are various other ways in which general debates of these matters can be introduced. Indeed, one of the arrangements of the House gives the Opposition the opportunity to make the choice of subject. That does not mean that the debate could not take place on another occasion, but I have no suggestion at the moment, I fear, for an immediate debate on the subject. Mr. Henderson Is the Leader of the House aware that there will be considerable disappointment that he has not yet found it possible to give Government time to discuss the condition of the steel industry? Is he aware that the executives of the British Steel Corporation refuse to give the necessary information to the Select Committee? May we have an opportunity of a debate before the redundancies take place so that, if possible, we may be able to influence the situation? Mr. Foot Obviously, the matter is of the highest importance both for hon. Members who represent steel constituencies and for the country as a whole. It will have to be debated in some form in the House of Commons. I do not accept for a moment that any discussion at a Select Committee would be a substitute for a debate in the House, but the exact time when it is best for the debate to take place is another question. The Government have said that a statement will be made when we return after the recess, and we shall have to see on the basis of that statement when a debate could take place. Mr. Hugh Jenkins My right hon. Friend will have heard the Prime Minister deal pretty comprehensively with the hon. [column 919]Member for Mid-Bedfordshire (Mr. Hastings). This may be why in his plans for next week he has not provided for any further discussion of the matter raised by the hon. Member. But since my right hon. Friend was here himself and heard the allegations, has he anything further to add on the matters raised by the hon. Member yesterday? Mr. Foot I did not comment fully on what was said by the hon. Gentleman yesterday, because I was out of the Chamber for a period during his speech. Although I was given a note of it, I did not think that I could comment immediately. Having now read the speech, I believe that a much more extensive comment could and should have been made, but I believe that the overwhelming majority of hon. Members will agree with the contempt which the Prime Minister has expressed on the matter and the manner in which it was introduced by the hon. Gentleman. Sir D. Walker-Smith On the last question put to him, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the point is that there should be an investigation by the most appropriate method of allegations of this sort? Will he kindly take that under consideration? Second, I wanted to ask, in regard to the Town and Country Planning General Development (Amendment) Order, whether the right hon. Gentleman appreciates that neither yesterday in the House—this is col. 498 of Hansard—nor in response to the hon. Member for Watford (Mr. Tuck) did he state that, if the order is brought forward again, there will be time to debate it. Mr. Foot On the first question, if the hon. Member for Mid-Bedfordshire (Mr. Hastings) had been concerned about a serious discussion rather than spreading a smear, he would not have introduced the matter in the way he did. On the second question, of course, I believe that, in view of the general public interest aroused on this subject, there will have to be a debate. I assume that it would take place on the same kind of basis that we were proposing for a debate to take place on the original order. In view of the general interest, I believe that there would have to be a debate in the House, as well as the representations from other quarters. Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it not a fact that at business questions the Leader of the House is acting as Leader of the House and representing the interests of hon. Members on both sides? Is it, therefore, right and in accordance with the practice of the House that he should impute wrong motives to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Bedfordshire (Mr. Hastings) in the speech he made yesterday? Mr. Speaker I think that there is no comment I can pass there other than to say that I have heard it done many a time since I have been here. Mr. Heffer Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Are you aware that the hon. Gentleman has been invited to go on a television programme to discuss the matter tonight with me and refused—— Mr. Speaker Order. Both sides are pursuing this. We are not advancing the interests of the House in pursuing the matter in this way. I must warn the House that I have over 40 names of hon. Members who have indicated that they hope to catch my eye in the debate on the rate support grant, and I hope that that will be borne in mind now. Mr. Loyden May I ask my hon. Friend, once again, whether he will arrange, early in the New Year, a full-scale debate on the question of unemployment? Is he aware that many of my hon. Friends are of the opinion that present legislation going through the House is less important than a debate on unemployment? Mr. Foot I fully accept what my hon. Friend says about the paramount importance of continuing debate and discussion in the House and with Ministers on the major subject of unemployment, and I am not at all surprised that he raises the matter so constantly in the House. Because special debates are not arranged on the subject does not mean that the Government do not attach the highest importance to it. As my hon. Friend knows, because he participates in them, representations are all the time being made by him and other hon. Members whose areas are worst hit. But we must look in the New [column 921]Year to having general debates on the subject in the House. Mr. Onslow Does the Leader of the House recollect that the matter arising out of the Frolik statement yesterday was a conflict of evidence between the Czech defector and the previous Prime Minister whether John Stonehouse was a Czech spy? Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that that is a matter which ought to be cleared up? Will he not undertake that there will be a statement and an inquiry by the Security Commission into all matters concerned with that issue? Mr. Foot If Conservative hon. Members were serious in wishing to have an inquiry into these matters, they would not have chosen the method of raising them which they did choose. Mr. Skinner As there seems to be a swarm of requests from the Opposition for investigations and inquiries concerning a book which is having difficulty selling, would my right hon. Friend consider—as there is to be no inquiry into that matter—whether we may have an inquiry into another book that is selling, namely, the book by Charles Raw about Slater Walker? That would reveal a few things about hon. Members opposite. Mr. Foot I hope that, in his eagerness to discuss the second book, my hon. Friend will not give too much advertisement to the first. Mr. Pym Does not the Leader of the House think that he is protesting too much about the matter that was raised yesterday? Is he not aware that yesterday I suggested that he was rather sensitive on the issue, and he is giving every indication today that he is? I do not think it right that he should impugn the honour and the intentions of hon. Members. Will he now answer the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Mr. Onslow)—a real point and a new one—which was relative to the previous Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Huyton (Sir H. Wilson)? Mr. Foot I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman should give his shield or cover to his hon. Friends in this matter. Perhaps he would consider whether raising matters of this kind on an Adjourn[column 922]ment is the proper way, particularly when the names of individual citizens will be mentioned. Surely, if that is to be done, an opportunity might be given whereby those involved would be able to reply immediately. I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman should consider the fair play involved and sort out that question before he questions me on the matter. Mr. Cormack I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his response to the representations on the Town and Country General Development (Amendment) Order. May I ask him to spend some of the recess reflecting on Early-Day Motion No. 131, which draws attention to the abuse of the guillotine on the Scotland Bill? Will he use his best endeavours to ensure that, when we return, every relevant and important clause of that Bill receives proper debate? It is a constitutional absurdity that a Bill of such magnitude should go through without some of its most important clauses being even discussed in the House. Mr. Foot I understand the importance of the matter raised by the hon. Gentleman. The matter was discussed by the House when it set up the Business Committee, has been discussed by the Business Committee, and may be discussed by that Committee again. There are always difficulties with a guillotine, but the House decided that if the Bill was to go through—and the House wanted the Bill to go through—it was necessary to have a guillotine. Several hon. Members rose—— Mr. Speaker I shall call three more hon. Members. Mr. Forman As one of the matters of great interest and uncertainty to members of the public outside the House is the future of the Lib-Lab pact, does the Leader of the House feel that a suitable [column 923]subject for debate during the first few weeks after the recess might be the proposition in The Times this morning to the effect that the Liberal Party is no longer the people's watchdog but rather the Prime Minister's poodle? Mr. Foot I think that The Times usually does a bit better than that. At least it is usually able to manufacture its own jokes. Moreover, I should not accept The Times as an authority on the Liberal Party or on any of these arrangements. Indeed, The Times is probably as irritated as is, say, the Sun, although not always expressing itself so ably, and other newspapers, such as the Daily Express, that arrangements conveniently made in the House are ensuring that the good government of the country is carried on. Mr. Thompson As forestry is of great importance to Scotland as a major form of land use, are we never to have a debate on the Floor of the House on forestry? Must we wait until there is a Scottish Assembly, to debate it there? Mr. Foot This does not apply only to the hon. Gentleman. I think that it is wrong for hon. Members to give the impression to people outside that there are not plenty of opportunities for Back Benchers to raise a whole range of such questions. Any hon. Member who, over a few weeks, is not able to raise this kind of matter is not making the fullest use of the facilities of the House of Commons. It does no good to the House of Commons to suggest that suppression of debate is occurring because debates are not always taking place on Government motions or Government proposals. Back Benchers have access to a great part of parliamentary time. Mr. Shersby Will the right hon. Gentleman try to find time early in the New Year for a debate on mental health? It is some time since we debated this matter, and when we last debated it there was an expression of opinion that further time would be found as soon as convenient. Mr. Foot I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the importance of the subject and the importance of having debates on it, but once again I must say that there are opportunities for others, apart from the Government, to initiate debates in the House. Mr. Hastings On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As I heard him, the Leader of the House impugned my honour during a statement a short time ago. Am I not to be given the right of reply? Mr. Speaker I heard nothing to impugn the hon. Gentleman's honour, or I should have intervened. The disagreement about whether the hon. Gentleman should have raised what he did is entirely different from saying that he is a dishonourable man. As the matter has had a very good airing I think that it is in the best interests of the House to leave it where it is. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mrs thatcher ask michael footthe leader house state business week return recess lord president council leader house commons mr michael foot business week adjournment follow monday january supply allotted day debate motion note tenth report select committee public account session related treasury northern ireland memoranda motion parochial register record church england measure tuesday january wednesday january progress committee scotland bill thursday january progress committee european assembly elections bill friday january private member motion mrs thatcher lord president indication propose deal future european assembly elections bill kind past indicate intend day week scotland bill plan deal european assembly elections bill mr foot think proceed thursday january mind mr raphael tuck right hon friend aware follow unsuccessful attempt day ago raise matter town country plan general development amendment order house subsequent meeting number minister housing construction announce night order withdraw subject consideration right hon friend assurance consideration include column debate house try bulldoze thing house adequate debate appear announcement night mr foot question bulldozing happen representation house side house hon friend representation meeting right hon friend secretary state environment respond request reason withdrawal order course discussion right hon hon member local authority shall shall proceed far matter bulldoze matter respond wish house mr powell right hon gentleman aware follow decision committee tuesday night government accept necessary bring forward amendment european assembly elections bill doubt amendment government long opportunity consider relevant amendment debate day committee right hon gentleman assure house amendment table possible house rise late day return mr foot certainly hope accord second suggestion right hon gentleman refer new clause promise aspect matter hope rate day return shall certainly look question right hon gentleman raise amendment house rise rate day return mr hooley shall opportunity discuss foreign policy include proposal berrill report mr foot proposal debate moment matter raise house proposition debate immediate future mr carlisle member frank committee report question immigration long ago october year tell committee set mr jenkins purpose report basis debate ask propose debate franks committee report mr foot way general debate matter introduce arrangement house give opposition opportunity choice subject mean debate place occasion suggestion moment fear immediate debate subject mr henderson leader house aware considerable disappointment find possible government time discuss condition steel industry aware executive british steel corporation refuse necessary information select committee opportunity debate redundancy place possible able influence situation mr foot obviously matter high importance hon member represent steel constituency country debate form house common accept moment discussion select committee substitute debate house exact time good debate place question government say statement return recess shall basis statement debate place mr hugh jenkin right hon friend hear prime minister deal pretty comprehensively hon column midbedfordshire mr hastings plan week provide discussion matter raise hon member right hon friend hear allegation add matter raise hon member yesterday mr foot comment fully say hon gentleman yesterday chamber period speech give note think comment immediately having read speech believe extensive comment believe overwhelming majority hon member agree contempt prime minister express matter manner introduce hon gentleman sir d walkersmith question right hon gentleman aware point investigation appropriate method allegation sort kindly consideration second want ask regard town country plan general development amendment order right hon gentleman appreciate yesterday house col hansard response hon member watford mr tuck state order bring forward time debate mr foot question hon member midbedfordshire mr hastings concern discussion spread smear introduce matter way second question course believe view general public interest arouse subject debate assume place kind basis propose debate place original order view general interest believe debate house representation quarter rearadmiral morgangile point order mr speaker fact business question leader house act leader house represent interest hon member side right accordance practice house impute wrong motive hon friend member midbedfordshire mr hastings speech yesterday mr speaker think comment pass hear time mr heffer point order mr speaker aware hon gentleman invite television programme discuss matter tonight refuse mr speaker order side pursue advance interest house pursue matter way warn house name hon member indicate hope catch eye debate rate support grant hope bear mind mr loyden ask hon friend arrange early new year fullscale debate question unemployment aware hon friend opinion present legislation go house important debate unemployment mr foot fully accept hon friend say paramount importance continue debate discussion house minister major subject unemployment surprised raise matter constantly house special debate arrange subject mean government attach high importance hon friend know participate representation time hon member area worst hit look new column have general debate subject house mr onslow leader house recollect matter arise frolik statement yesterday conflict evidence czech defector previous prime minister john stonehouse czech spy right hon gentleman think matter ought clear undertake statement inquiry security commission matter concern issue mr foot conservative hon member wish inquiry matter choose method raise choose mr skinner swarm request opposition investigation inquiry concern book have difficulty sell right hon friend consider inquiry matter inquiry book sell book charles raw slater walker reveal thing hon member opposite mr foot hope eagerness discuss second book hon friend advertisement mr pym leader house think protest matter raise yesterday aware yesterday suggest sensitive issue give indication today think right impugn honour intention hon member answer point raise hon friend member woke mr onslow real point new relative previous prime minister right hon member huyton sir h wilson mr foot surprised right hon gentleman shield cover hon friend matter consider raise matter kind adjourncolumn proper way particularly name individual citizen mention surely opportunity give involve able reply immediately suggest right hon gentleman consider fair play involve sort question question matter mr cormack thank right hon gentleman response representation town country general development amendment order ask spend recess reflect earlyday motion draw attention abuse guillotine scotland bill use good endeavour ensure return relevant important clause bill receive proper debate constitutional absurdity bill magnitude important clause discuss house mr foot understand importance matter raise hon gentleman matter discuss house set business committee discuss business committee discuss committee difficulty guillotine house decide bill house want bill necessary guillotine hon member rise mr speaker shall hon member mr forman matter great interest uncertainty member public outside house future liblab pact leader house feel suitable column debate week recess proposition time morning effect liberal party long people watchdog prime minister poodle mr foot think time usually bit well usually able manufacture joke accept time authority liberal party arrangement time probably irritated sun express ably newspaper daily express arrangement conveniently house ensure good government country carry mr thompson forestry great importance scotland major form land use debate floor house forestry wait scottish assembly debate mr foot apply hon gentleman think wrong hon member impression people outside plenty opportunity bencher raise range question hon member week able raise kind matter make full use facility house common good house common suggest suppression debate occur debate take place government motion government proposal bencher access great parliamentary time mr shersby right hon gentleman try find time early new year debate mental health time debate matter debate expression opinion time find soon convenient mr foot agree hon gentleman importance subject importance have debate opportunity apart government initiate debate house mr hastings point order mr speaker hear leader house impugn honour statement short time ago give right reply mr speaker hear impugn hon gentleman honour intervene disagreement hon gentleman raise entirely different say dishonourable man matter good air think good interest house leave copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. The Conservative leader, Mrs. Margaret Thatcher, called on Conservative agents last night to get ready for an election. “We have to be ready. We have to be ready in the constituencies to fight and to win. “We have to get the organisation geared up. What we are going to see this week and in the constituencies in the future is a united effort from a united party.” Mrs. Thatcher was given a warm reception by the party's professional agents and she struck the right note when she congratulated them on the by-election victory at West Woolwich. Within a few hours of her arrival at Blackpool, Mrs. Thatcher demonstrated that she is out to stamp her authority on the Conservative party this week. She is still untested as a leader in the difficult show arena of a party conference. But there can be no mistaking that her successful North Atlantic tour has given Mrs. Thatcher the confidence that she can show herself, equal to the Conservative leadership. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc conservative leader mrs margaret thatcher call conservative agent night ready election ready ready constituency fight win organisation gear go week constituency future united effort united party mrs thatcher give warm reception partys professional agent strike right note congratulate byelection victory west woolwich hour arrival blackpool mrs thatcher demonstrate stamp authority conservative party week untested leader difficult arena party conference mistaking successful north atlantic tour give mrs thatcher confidence equal conservative leadership copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Q1. Mr. Barry Jones asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 5 February. The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher) In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be having meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with the British Independent Steel Producers Association. Mr. Jones Does the Prime Minister agree that last night's television programme on documents published by BSC indicate that the Secretary of State for Industry deliberately provoked the national steel strike, blocked a 14 per cent. pay rise and insisted on 52,000 steel redundancies? Will the right hon. Lady assert herself against the reactionary and totally wrong policies of her right hon. Friend? Is the Iron Maiden chicken, or will she sack her right hon. Friend and stop the brutal butchery of working-class communities? The Prime Minister I totally reject the hon. Gentleman's ridiculous and disgraceful allegations against Sir Keith Josephmy right hon. Friend. Some months ago my right hon. Friend, in conjunction with the industry, fixed a cash limit for next year of some £450 million, which the taxpayer [column 231]will find. Already we have a high level of tax in this country, and I think that it is as high as the taxpayer finds acceptable. We are not prepared to find more for operating losses. Mr. Nicholas Winterton Will my right hon. Friend ignore the Palladium antics of the hon. Member for Flint, East (Mr. Jones)? Will she find time in her very busy programme, to explain at somewhat greater length to the people of this country why our Olympic athletes should not go to Moscow? Will she explain to the people of this country that the future security of the world is more important than a few gold medals? The Prime Minister I have already made it clear that I think that if Olympic athletes go to Moscow that occasion will be used by Russia to indicate that either the countries which go or the athletes who go are, in some way, in favour of Russian foreign policy. I believe that that would be catastrophic. Because we know that the athletes have trained long and hard for that occasion we have asked, in the first place, for the venue to be moved to somewhere more suitable. Mr. Foot To return to the question posed by my hon. Friend the Member for Flint, East (Mr. Jones), will the right hon. Lady undertake, if she has not already done so, to see last night's “World in Action” programme on the steel papers, since that programme indicated, among other things, that within BSC, long before Christmas, there were some who warned about the catastrophic effects of a steel strike and the likelihood that it would take place if they went ahead with what they themselves described as the zero offer to the steel workers? Will the right hon. Lady tell us whether she has seen that programme? Will she undertake to do so, and will she undertake to return and report to the House on the interventions by the Government in the steel industry prior to 31 December? The Prime Minister I did not see the programme. I have more or less read the script, together with the radio script—[Interruption.] Yes, indeed, because I am not certain that it is accurate in every particular. I read the script, together with certain radio broadcast scripts at [column 232]lunchtime today. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the steel cash limit of £450 million for next year, following the £700 million for this year, was set by my right hon. Friend Sir Keith Josephthe Secretary of State for Industry. The only fetters upon it—if I may use that word—are that the £450 million should be used for a mixture of investment, working capital and redundancy payments. It seems to us that it is perfectly reasonable to provide good redundancy payments for those who lose their jobs, having previously provided, and continuing to provide, the best investment and equipment so that those who stay at their jobs may have the chance to earn higher and better pay. Mr. Foot If the right hon. Lady says that she has more or less read the script, will she give us her comments on the warnings given to her and her Government from inside BSC way before Christmas of the catastrophic effects of proceedings as the corporation eventually did proceed? What support did the Government give to that and what intervention did they make? Will she give a full report to the House when she has read the whole script? The Prime Minister If I may respectfully say so, the argument is not so much about percentages as about how those percentages are to be met. There is plenty of prospect for considerably improved pay if people will properly use the excellent and latest equipment and machinery that has been provided by the taxpayer. In that way, their levels of productivity will reach those of many industries on the Continent. Mr. Foot Is the right hon. Lady aware that a deep sense of desperation is spreading throughout the country, for which she is responsible? When will she come to the House and say that she will take some action to stop the spread of paralysis throughout the country? The Prime Minister I am aware of a sense of desperation. There is a great sense of desperation when a whole people provide a whole industry with the latest and best equipment so that it may become the best and most efficient steel producer in the world, and those who work in the industry do not take the opportunity to use it but go on strike to [column 233]demand more from the taxpayer—the taxpayer who, in the same world, has to make a profit. Sir John Eden Does my right hon. Friend feel that she will be able to reassure the members of the British Independent Steel Producers Association that Ministers will in no way miss the opportunity of the passage of the Employment Bill through the House to ensure that, never again, are they made victims of the sort of strike action to which they are being subjected? Will she also make clear that if people wish to stop the damage that the strike is creating in the country and the steel industry, they must cease going on strike and resume negotiations? The Prime Minister I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend's last point. It is a cause of great sorrow to me that people who are on strike are not around the table negotiating again. The Employment Bill deals with secondary picketing, but of course it does not deal with secondary strikes. I do not believe that it can deal with such strikes at the moment. Q2. Mr. O'Neill asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 5 February. The Prime Minister I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I have just given. Mr. O'Neill When will the Prime Minister recognise the Government's wider responsibility in the steel dispute? Will she assure the 12,000 workers in my constituency who are employed in the refractory brick industry that their jobs will not be put in jeopardy? Millions of pounds of public and private money have been spent on the firm to make it profitable, while the Government stand idly by. The Prime Minister Jobs are put in jeopardy because of a strike. The hon. Gentleman should direct his attention to those who decide to go on strike, stay on strike and extend that strike. Mr. Mellor Will my right hon. Friend give a warning today about the consequences of the removal of all safety cover at BSC plants? The effect of that action may well be to destroy jobs in that industry. Will she invite the Leader of [column 234]the Opposition—whoever that might be in reality—to join in the condemnation of the foolish threatened action? The Prime Minister I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. If the report is correct that safety workers are being withdrawn from coke ovens and blast furnaces, by so doing they are destroying their own jobs. I doubt whether some blast furnacemen would do that, but I believe that the management and staff would be able to keep the safety procedures going for some time. Mr. Joel Barnett In view of the Prime Minister's present position and the disastrous consequences to the national interest of what she is proposing, that is, to do nothing, will she willingly concede that, having said that she has fixed the cash limit only, by so doing she has fixed within it a wage increase? What is that wage increase that she assumed? The Prime Minister Of course, we have not fixed a wage increase. The right hon. Gentleman knows that the cash limit applies to three matters—investment, working capital and redundancy. The wage increase will depend upon the level of productivity, and that is what the argument is about. Sir William Clark Is my right hon. Friend aware of the deep frustration that is felt by many workers in the steel industry, particularly in the private steel industry, because many of them do not wish to strike but are afraid to defy the unions in case of victimisation? Will my right hon. Friend consider the advisability of introducing a one-clause Bill to provide that if 500 workers, or 10 per cent. of the work force, whichever is the lower, demand a ballot, that will be mandatory on the trade union leadership? The Prime Minister There have been times when I have believed that a one-clause Bill might be tempting. However, I must be candid with my hon. Friend. I doubt very much whether we could get a one-clause Bill through the House during the course of the strike. We have to get the strike settled first. There are provisions in the Employment Bill which will help considerably with the matter of the closed shop, to which my hon. Friend refers. Q3. Mr. Straw asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 5 February. The Prime Minister I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I gave earlier today. Mr. Straw Why has the Prime Minister evaded the questions that my right hon. Friend the Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Foot) put to her? His central question was about what reply the right hon. Lady gave to BSC when it predicted a catastrophe if a 2 per cent. offer was made? I repeat, what reply did she make to BSC? The Prime Minister The hon. Gentleman cannot know about relationships between nationalised industries and Prime Ministers. In a properly-run Government, the matter does not come to the Prime Minister. Mr. Higgins Will my right hon. Friend take time today to examine a parliamentary answer which suggests that the Government will continue to lend money to the Russians at subsidised rates of interest to buy capital goods. As these goods can be used to make military equipment, will she stop that immediately and seek to persuade our European partners to do the same? If not, our protest against Russian aggression and events in Afghanistan will become a farce. The Prime Minister As my right hon. Friend knows, we are not continuing with the higher preferential credit terms which were previously negotiated and which terminate this month. However, we expect to continue with what are called “consensus terms” with national trade, which we are agreeing with our partners. We are trying to negotiate those terms with them. Mr. Jay Are the Government's industrial policies producing the results that the Prime Minister intended? The Prime Minister They are certainly giving people the opportunity to earn more. If they take that opportunity they will have the assurance that they will be able to keep a bigger proportion of their pay packet. If some people receiving considerable subsidies from the taxpayer strike because they want more, that is [column 236]their own viewpoint and responsibility. I will have no truck with them. Mr. Foot Does the right hon. Lady's reply to my right hon. Friend the Member for Battersea, North (Mr. Jay) mean “Yes we have done it all on purpose” ? The Prime Minister The right hon. Gentleman must be very much kept down when his right hon. Friend is here. Several Hon. Members rose—— Mr. Speaker Order. I propose to call one more hon. Member from the Government Benches because I called two hon. Gentleman from the Opposition. Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop Will my right hon. Friend remind the House and the country of the positive encouragement and reward given to the Soviet Union's aggression by the previous Labour Government when the right hon. Member for Huyton (Sir H. Wilson) was Prime Minister when he handed over to the Soviet Union the gold reserves of the independent republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania? They had been deposited for safe keeping with the Bank of England when Soviet Russia invaded and annexed those republics. The Prime Minister I remember the occasion very well and the great trouble that it caused among people who had previously been citizens of those countries. Mr. Eldon Griffiths On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I recognise—as I am sure every hon. Member does, the special position of the Leader of the Opposition, but may I put it to you that it cannot be right, in the interests of all Back Benchers, that the spokesman for the Leader of the Opposition in this case presumed on his position to intervene four times in question? In no way do I seek to complain that you rightly give preferential treatment to the Leader of the Opposition, but I hope that you will accept, that he will accept and that all Members of the House will accept, that to preserve his special position he should manage it with restraint and with regard for other hon. Members. Mr. Speaker Order. The House knows that I have often said that special latitude is given to the Leader of the Opposition and to his spokesman. Today, because it was the last moment, I [column 237]called one hon. Member from the Government Benches after time because I thought it was the fair thing to do. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mr barry jones ask prime minister list official engagement february prime minister mrs margaret thatcher addition duty house shall have meeting ministerial colleague include british independent steel producers association mr jones prime minister agree night television programme document publish bsc indicate secretary state industry deliberately provoke national steel strike block cent pay rise insist steel redundancy right hon lady assert reactionary totally wrong policy right hon friend iron maiden chicken sack right hon friend stop brutal butchery workingclass community prime minister totally reject hon gentleman ridiculous disgraceful allegation sir keith josephmy right hon friend month ago right hon friend conjunction industry fix cash limit year million taxpayer column find high level tax country think high taxpayer find acceptable prepared find operating loss mr nicholas winterton right hon friend ignore palladium antic hon member flint east mr jones find time busy programme explain somewhat great length people country olympic athlete moscow explain people country future security world important gold medal prime minister clear think olympic athlete moscow occasion russia indicate country athlete way favour russian foreign policy believe catastrophic know athlete train long hard occasion ask place venue move suitable mr foot return question pose hon friend member flint east mr jones right hon lady undertake night world action programme steel paper programme indicate thing bsc long christmas warn catastrophic effect steel strike likelihood place go ahead describe zero offer steel worker right hon lady tell see programme undertake undertake return report house intervention government steel industry prior december prime minister programme read script radio script interruption yes certain accurate particular read script certain radio broadcast script column today right hon gentleman know steel cash limit million year follow million year set right hon friend sir keith josephthe secretary state industry fetter use word million mixture investment work capital redundancy payment perfectly reasonable provide good redundancy payment lose job having previously provide continue provide good investment equipment stay job chance earn high well pay mr foot right hon lady say read script comment warning give government inside bsc way christmas catastrophic effect proceeding corporation eventually proceed support government intervention report house read script prime minister respectfully argument percentage percentage meet plenty prospect considerably improve pay people properly use excellent late equipment machinery provide taxpayer way level productivity reach industry continent mr foot right hon lady aware deep sense desperation spread country responsible come house action stop spread paralysis country prime minister aware sense desperation great sense desperation people provide industry late good equipment good efficient steel producer world work industry opportunity use strike column taxpayer taxpayer world profit sir john eden right hon friend feel able reassure member british independent steel producer association minister way miss opportunity passage employment bill house ensure victim sort strike action subject clear people wish stop damage strike create country steel industry cease go strike resume negotiation prime minister agree entirely right hon friend point cause great sorrow people strike table negotiate employment bill deal secondary picketing course deal secondary strike believe deal strike moment mr oneill ask prime minister list official engagement february prime minister refer hon gentleman reply give mr oneill prime minister recognise government wide responsibility steel dispute assure worker constituency employ refractory brick industry job jeopardy million pound public private money spend firm profitable government stand idly prime minister job jeopardy strike hon gentleman direct attention decide strike stay strike extend strike mr mellor right hon friend warning today consequence removal safety cover bsc plant effect action destroy job industry invite leader column opposition reality join condemnation foolish threatened action prime minister agree entirely hon friend report correct safety worker withdraw coke oven blast furnace destroy job doubt blast furnaceman believe management staff able safety procedure go time mr joel barnett view prime minister present position disastrous consequence national interest propose willingly concede having say fix cash limit fix wage increase wage increase assume prime minister course fix wage increase right hon gentleman know cash limit apply matter investment work capital redundancy wage increase depend level productivity argument sir william clark right hon friend aware deep frustration feel worker steel industry particularly private steel industry wish strike afraid defy union case victimisation right hon friend consider advisability introduce oneclause bill provide worker cent work force whichever low demand ballot mandatory trade union leadership prime minister time believe oneclause bill tempt candid hon friend doubt oneclause bill house course strike strike settle provision employment bill help considerably matter closed shop hon friend refer mr straw ask prime minister list official engagement february prime minister refer hon gentleman reply give early today mr straw prime minister evade question right hon friend member ebbw vale mr foot central question reply right hon lady give bsc predict catastrophe cent offer repeat reply bsc prime minister hon gentleman know relationship nationalise industry prime minister properlyrun government matter come prime minister mr higgins right hon friend time today examine parliamentary answer suggest government continue lend money russians subsidised rate interest buy capital good good military equipment stop immediately seek persuade european partner protest russian aggression event afghanistan farce prime minister right hon friend know continue high preferential credit term previously negotiate terminate month expect continue call consensus term national trade agree partner try negotiate term mr jay government industrial policy produce result prime minister intend prime minister certainly give people opportunity earn opportunity assurance able big proportion pay packet people receive considerable subsidy taxpayer strike want column viewpoint responsibility truck mr foot right hon ladys reply right hon friend member battersea north mr jay mean yes purpose prime minister right hon gentleman keep right hon friend hon member rise mr speaker order propose hon member government bench call hon gentleman opposition mr maxwellhyslop right hon friend remind house country positive encouragement reward give soviet union aggression previous labour government right hon member huyton sir h wilson prime minister hand soviet union gold reserve independent republic estonia latvia lithuania deposit safe keeping bank england soviet russia invade annex republic prime minister remember occasion great trouble cause people previously citizen country mr eldon griffith point order mr speaker recognise sure hon member special position leader opposition right interest bencher spokesman leader opposition case presume position intervene time question way seek complain rightly preferential treatment leader opposition hope accept accept member house accept preserve special position manage restraint regard hon member mr speaker order house know say special latitude give leader opposition spokesman today moment column hon member government bench time think fair thing copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill establishes and provides funding through FY2024 for the Patient and State Stability Fund, which shall be used to support specified state efforts to increase access to health-insurance coverage and help stabilize the individual market. Specifically, states may use the funds to (1) lower the cost for individuals to purchase coverage, (2) lower out-of-pocket costs for individuals with insurance, (3) pay health care providers, (4) cover or provide additional specified services, and (5) otherwise increase coverage options and stabilize premiums in the state's insurance market. If a state does not apply for funds under the program, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, in consultation with the state, must use the funds to stabilize premiums by partially reimbursing insurers for claims in a specified cost range. The bill also revises the grace period that health insurers must provide to recipients of premium subsidies before discontinuing health coverage for nonpayment of premiums. The grace period is shortened from 3 months to 30 days unless state law includes an applicable grace period.

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bill establish provide funding patient state stability fund shall support specify state effort increase access healthinsurance coverage help stabilize individual market specifically state use fund low cost individual purchase coverage low outofpocket cost individual insurance pay health care provider cover provide additional specify service increase coverage option stabilize premium state insurance market state apply fund program center medicare medicaid service consultation state use fund stabilize premium partially reimburse insurer claim specified cost range bill revise grace period health insurer provide recipient premium subsidy discontinue health coverage nonpayment premium grace period shorten month day state law include applicable grace period

Mar 31, 2020 Donald Trump and the Coronavirus Task Force held their daily COVID-19 press conference today, March 31. Trump warned of a “very, very painful two weeks” ahead for the United States as the virus spreads. The White House predicts that 100,000 to 240,000 will die of the virus. Read the full transcript of the briefing here. Transcribe Your Own Content Try Rev for free and save time transcribing & captioning. Transcribe or caption speeches, interviews, meetings, town halls, phone calls, and more. Rev is the largest, most trusted, fastest, and most accurate provider of transcription services and closed captioning & subtitling services in the world. Donald Trump: (01:36)Thank you very much everyone. Our country is in the midst of a great national trial, unlike any we have ever faced before. You all see it. You see it probably better than most. We’re at war with a deadly virus. Success in this fight will require the full absolute measure of our collective strength, love, and devotion. It’s very important. Each of us has the power through our own choices and actions to save American lives and rescue the most vulnerable among us. That’s why we really have to do what we all know is right. Every citizen is being called upon to make sacrifices. Every business is being asked to fulfill its patriotic duty. Every community is making fundamental changes to how we live, work and interact each and every day, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see this going on long into the future when this virus is gone and defeated. Donald Trump: (02:44)Some of the things we’re doing now will be very good practice for the future, including for not getting the flu, which is very devastating also. So some of what we’re learning now will live on into the future. I really believe that shaking hands or not shaking hands, washing hands all the time, staying a little apart. 15 days ago we published our nationwide guidelines to slow the spread of the virus. On Sunday, I announced that this campaign will be extended until April 30th. In a few moments, Dr. Birx will explain the data that formed the basis for our decision to extend the guidelines and Dr. Fauci will explain why it’s absolutely critical for the American people to follow the guidelines for the next 30 days. It’s a matter of life and death, frankly. It’s a matter of life and death. Donald Trump: (03:46)I know our citizens will rise to the occasion and they already have sacrificed a lot. We had the greatest economy in the history of our country. We’re the greatest economy in the world. We had the best unemployment numbers and employment numbers that we’ve ever had by far, and in one instant we said we have no choice but to close it up. Just as Americans have always done, they will do a job like few have seen before and they’re proud to do it. And I see that there’s a great pride going on right now. Before we hear from our experts, we have a few other announcements. Donald Trump: (04:28)Today, the Treasury Department and Small Business Administration announced further details on the paycheck protection program, which was made possible by the $2 trillion relief bill I signed into law last week. Nearly $350 billion in loans will soon be available through lending partners to help small businesses meet payroll and other expenses for up to two months. These loans will be forgiven as long as businesses keep paying their workers. This includes sole proprietors and independent contractors. Applications will be accepted starting this Friday, April 3rd. So on Friday, April 3rd, that’s when it begins. Donald Trump: (05:13)Earlier today, I spoke with leading internet and phone providers who are doing a tremendous job of keeping our internet and the lines of communication flowing under very strongly increase strain the businesses more than anybody has seen before because everyone’s inside. They’re all making calls. Among the leaders I spoke to were Hans Vestberg a Verizon Communications, Randall Stephenson of AT&T, Mike Sievert of T-Mobile, Thomas Rutledge of Charter Communications, Brian Roberts of Comcast, John Malone of Liberty Media, Dexter Goie of Altice, Michel Combes of Sprint, and Aryeh Bourkoff of LionTree. Also Pat Esser of Cox Communications and Jeffrey Storey of CenturyLink. They’re doing an incredible job. If you look at other continents, if you look at Europe, they went a different route than we did and a much different route. We were talking about that just a little while ago, and they are having tremendous problems. Donald Trump: (06:32)Other countries are having problems, other continents are having problems, but with business at a level that nobody’s seen it before on the internet, it’s holding up incredibly well. And they expect that to continue no matter what happened, and no matter how much more gains, which it can gain more than it already is, I don’t know because they’re setting records. Let me also update you on the distribution of urgency needed resources and supplies and we have a lot of numbers. I’m going to let Mike Pence speak to that in a little while, but we’re giving massive amounts of medical equipment and supplies to the 50 states. We also are holding back quite a bit. We have almost 10,000 ventilators that we have ready to go. We have to hold them back because the surge is coming, and it’s coming pretty strong, and we want to be able to immediately move it into place without going and taking it. Donald Trump: (07:35)So we’re ready to go. And we’ve also distributed, I just spoke with governor of Michigan, had a great conversation and we sent a large number of ventilators to Michigan. We’re sending them to Louisiana. We sent additional ventilators to New York, additional ventilators to New Jersey. And I will say in New York, FEMA is supplying 250 ambulances and 500 EMTs to help respond to the increasing case load. That’s a lot of ambulances. In California, the Army Corps of engineers is developing eight facilities to expand hospital capacity up to 50,000 beds, 50,000. And had a great conversation last night with Gavin Newsom, he’s doing a really good job. We’re in constant communications. The USNS Mercy hospital ship is now operational. It’s in Los Angeles and receiving patients. And in New York, as you know, the Comfort, everybody watched that. It’s in place and it will be in a very short while receiving large numbers of patients over a thousand rooms and 12 operating rooms. Donald Trump: (08:56)FEMA has also provided a hundred travel trailers to assist with housing needs and we’re ordering hundreds more. In Michigan, FEMA will soon deliver in addition to the ventilators, 250 bed, field, hospital, and Army Corps of engineers is evaluating locations to build alternate care facilities. So we’re doing a field hospital in Michigan of 250 beds and we may be doubling it up soon depending on the need. They’re doing a good job with beds in Michigan, but they may need more than the 250, so FEMA and the Army Corps of engineers are prepared to go there quickly and get it done. In Louisiana, we’re delivering two field hospitals to provide 500 new hospital beds. I’ve been talking with the governor, John Bel Edwards and the Army Corps of engineers has been really doing incredible work establishing 3000 alternate care site at the New Orleans Convention Center, which will be operational, believe it or not this week. Donald Trump: (10:06)So we’re doing the 3000 bed alternate care site and we’re also doing a 500 bed new hospital, and that’s in Louisiana, which really got hit. It started off very late and it was looking good, and then all of a sudden it just reared up, came from nowhere. In addition to the supplies we’re delivering, we’re also giving hospitals the flexibility to use new facilities, including surgical care centers to care for hospital patients who are not infected. For example, I know that many expectant mothers are understandably concerned about exposing their newborn babies to the virus and they should be/ with our action yesterday, hospitals now have the authority to create special areas for mothers to deliver their babies in a very safe and healthy environment. Totally separate. Donald Trump: (11:03)Over the past two months, the US State Department has organized one of the largest and most complex international evacuation operations in American history. Mike Pompeo is working around the clock along with Ambassador O’Brien. Since January 29th, we have successfully repatriated over 25,000 Americans from more than 50 countries where they were literally stuck. In some cases, locked in. And I salute the incredible public servants at the Department of State as well as their counterparts at DHS and HHS who have played such an important role in doing this. You probably read about the young people in Peru, and young people in Brazil, and they were absolutely stuck and we got them out. Almost everybody is out now back home with their parents, their wives, their husbands. Donald Trump: (12:06)I want every American to be prepared for the hard days that lie ahead. We’re going to go through a very tough two weeks. And then hopefully as the experts are predicting, as I think a lot of us are predicting I after having studied it so hard, you’re going to start seeing some real light at the end of the tunnel, but this is going to be a very painful, very, very painful two weeks. When you look and see at night the kind of death that’s been caused by this invisible enemy, it’s incredible. I was watching last night, Governor Murphy of New Jersey say 29 people died today, meaning yesterday, and others talking about numbers far greater, but you get to know a state, I know New Jersey so well. And you hit 29 people and hundreds in other locations, hundreds in other states. And this is going to be a rough two week period. Donald Trump: (13:05)As a nation, we face a difficult few weeks as we approach that really important day when we’re going to see things get better all of a sudden. And it’s going to be like a burst of light. I really think and I hope that our strength will be tested and our endurance will be tried, but America will answer with love and courage and ironclad resolve. This is the time for all Americans to come together and do our part. I appreciate a lot of the media. We’ve had a lot of really good things said. I think only good things can be said when you look at the job that’s been done. I just spoke with Franklin Graham who is an extraordinary person and a Samaritan’s Purse has been like so many others just been amazing and so fast. They did it so fast. He’s been doing that for a long time, but I think people are really seeing what they have done. Franklin Graham, very special family. Donald Trump: (14:13)As we send plane loads of masks and gloves and supplies to the communities battling the plague, and that’s what it is. It’s a plague. We also send our prayers. We pray for the doctors and the nurses. For the paramedics and the truck drivers, and the police officers, and the sanitation workers. And above all, the people fighting for their lives in New York and all across our land. I watched as doctors and nurses one into a certain hospital in Elmhurst this morning. I know Elmhurst, Queens, I grew up right next to it. I know the hospital very well, been seeing it all my life, my young life. Donald Trump: (14:57)And I will tell you that to see the scenes of trailers out there and what they’re doing with those trailers, they’re freezers and nobody could even believe it. And I spoke to some of my friends, they can’t believe what they’re seeing. And I watched the doctors and the nurses walking into that hospital this morning. It’s like military people going into battle, going into war. The bravery is incredible, and I just have to take my hat. I would take my hat if I were wearing a hat, I’d rip that hat off so fast and I would say “You people are just incredible.” They really are. They’re very brave. They’re going in and they don’t know, you have lots of things flying around in the air, you don’t know what you’re touching. Is it safe? Donald Trump: (15:56)And you also see where your friends are going to the hospital and you say “How is he doing?” Two days later and they say, “Sir, he’s unconscious.” Or “He’s in a coma.” So things are happening that we’ve never seen before in this country. And with all of that being said, the country’s come together like I’ve never seen it before, and we will prevail, we will win, and hopefully it will be in a relatively short period of time. With that, I’d like to ask Dr. Birx to come up and show you some of the latest data that has been, I think brilliantly put together. And right after that I’m going to ask Dr. Fauci to speak, and Mike Pence is going to give you some of the recent events that have taken place and some of the statistics that we have that I think will be very interesting here. Thank you very much. Please. Dr. Birx: (16:57)Thank you Mr. President. If I can have the first slide please. So always, and that’s what the slide is labeled, is goals of community mitigation. Really highlighting that this begins in the middle and the end with community. This community and the community of the American people that are going to have to do the things for the next 30 days to make a difference. I think you know from that large blue mountain that you can see behind me and I just want to thank the five or six international and domestic modelers from Harvard, from Columbia, from Northeastern, from Imperial, who helped us tremendously. It was their models that created the ability to see what these mitigations could do, how steeply they could depress the curve from that giant blue mountain down to that more stippled area. Dr. Birx: (17:59)In their estimates, they had between 1.5 million 2.2 million people in the United States succumbing to this virus without mitigation. Yet through their detailed studies and showing us what social distancing would do, what would happen if people stayed home, what would happen if people were careful every day to wash their hands and worry about touching their faces. That what an extraordinary thing this could be if every American followed these. And it takes us to that stippled mountain that’s much lower, a hill actually, down to 100,000-200,000 deaths, which is still way too much. Next slide please. Dr. Birx: (18:45)Simultaneously, there was a modeler out of the University of Washington that modeled from cases up, utilizing the experience around the globe to really understand how this information that we have from Italy and Spain and South Korea and China could really help us give insight into the hospital needs, the ventilator needs, and really the number of people who potentially could succumb to this illness. It is this model that we are looking at now that provides us the most detail of the time course that is possible, but this model assumes full mitigation. Dr. Birx: (19:26)It’s informed every morning or every night by the reality on the ground coming in from New York, New Jersey, and around the United States. And is modeled and informed every morning so that it is adjusted. So it is up to date every day. This is the model of the predicted fatalities and mortality in the United States and as the President said, it’s very much focused on the next two weeks and the stark reality of what this virus will do as it moves through communities. Next slide please. But this is a slide that gives us great hope and understanding about what is possible. On the bottom of the slide where you can barely see that blue line at the very bottom, that’s the current cases in California. The cumulative cases in California, where they’re doing significant testing. The next line up is Connecticut. The orange line is New Jersey. The blue line is New York. The yellow line is Washington. We all remember Washington state. It was just a month ago when they started to have the issues in Washington state, but they brought together their communities and their health providers and they put in strong mitigation methods and testing. And you can see what the result in Washington state and California is, but without the continuation for the next 30 days, anything could change. Next slide please. Dr. Birx: (21:03)So I’m sure you’re interested in seeing all of the states. So on this slide is all 50 states and the District of Columbia, but I think it shows in stark reality the difference between New York and New Jersey and other states with similar populations and urban areas. Our goal over the next 30 days is to ensure the states that you see, the 48 across the bottom, maintain this lower level of new cases with the hope that we don’t have significant outbreaks in other states and other metro areas as the community comes together to work together and ensure that the health care providers around the globe and in the United States are strengthened by our resolve to continue to mitigate community by community. Dr. Birx: (21:57)This is done community by community. We all know people are in their states and in their communities. And we’re very dependent on each person in the United States doing the same thing, following the presidential guidelines to a T. I know it’s a lot to ask because you’ve done it for 15 days. So if you can show the next slide please. So this is what gives us a lot of hope. This is the case finding in Italy. And you can see that they’re beginning to turn the corner in new cases. They’re entering their fourth week of full mitigation, and showing what is possible when we work together as a community, as a country, to change the course of this pandemic together. It is this graphic and the graphic of many of the states that gives us hope of what is possible with continuing for another 30 days. Dr. Birx: (22:55)Amidst all that hope, I must say that like we warned about Detroit and Chicago, we start to see changes in Massachusetts. New Orleans continues to be a problem of new cases, although they’re stabilizing. And I think it really shows the depth of dedication of the American people to the healthcare providers because they can see the strain that this puts on every nurse, doctor, respiratory therapists, pharmacist, and laboratory technician that’s working together to stem this tide of on relenting sick people coming to their doors. No one has been turned away. No one who has needed ventilation has not received ventilation. But you can see how stressful it is for each of them. So I know it’s stressful to follow the guidelines, but it is more stressful and more difficult to the soldiers on the front line. As we started and we will end, with its communities that will do this. There’s no magic bullet, there’s no magic vaccine or therapy. It’s just behaviors. Each of our behaviors translating into something that changes the course of this viral pandemic over the next 30 days. Thank you. Donald Trump: (24:15)Thank you. Dr. Fauci: (24:15)Thank you very much, Dr. Birx, Mr. President, Mr. Vice President. So what Dr. Birx has really said very simply is that there are really two dynamic forces that are opposing each other here. As I’ve mentioned several times in our briefings, the virus if left to its own devices will do that dark curve that Dr. Birx showed you. The other dynamic force is what we are doing, what we’re trying to do, and what we will do in the form of mitigation. Now these are very revealing bits of data because you saw what happened in Italy, where you make the turn around the curve and you go. That doesn’t happen all at once. It’s a stepwise fashion. And if I explained the steps, which I will, you’ll see why we are really convinced that mitigation is going to be doing the trick for us. Dr. Fauci: (25:12)Because what you have is you have increase in new cases at a certain rate. When the increase in new cases begin to level off, the secondary effect is less hospitalizations. The next effect is less intensive care. And the next effect is less deaths. The deaths and the intensive care and the hospitalization always lag behind that early indication that there are less new cases per day. The way we saw in Italy, and the way we’re likely seeing, I don’t want to jump the gun on it. We’re seeing little inklings of this right now in New York. Dr. Fauci: (25:51)So what we’re going to see, and now we got to brace ourselves. In the next several days to a week or so, we’re going to continue to see things go up. We cannot be discouraged by that because the mitigation is actually working and will work. The slide that Dr. Birx showed, what you saw in New York and New Jersey, and then the cluster of other areas, our goal, which I believe we can accomplish, is to get the hotspot places, the New York’s, the New Jersey, and help them to get around that curve. But as importantly, to prevent those clusters of areas that have not yet gone to that spike, to prevent them from getting that spike. Dr. Fauci: (26:37)And the answer to that is mitigation. Now, the 15 days that we had of mitigation clearly have had an effect, although it’s tough to quantitate it because of those two opposing forces. But the reason why we feel so strongly about the necessity of the additional 30 days is that now is the time whenever you’re having an effect, not to take your foot off the accelerator and on the brake, but to just press it down on the accelerator. And that’s what I hope and I know that we can do over the next 30 days. And as I said the other day on one of the interviews, we are a very strong and resilient nation. If you look at our history, we’ve been through some terrible ordeals. This is tough. People are suffering, people are dying. It’s inconvenient from a societal standpoint, from an economic standpoint to go through this. But this is going to be the answer to our problems. So let’s all pull together and make sure as we look forward to the next 30 days, we do it with all the intensity and force that we can. Donald Trump: (28:00)Thank you. Mike Pence: (28:01)Thank you Mr. President and to the Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci. I know I speak on behalf of the President and people all across this country when I express our great admiration and appreciation to both of you for helping to steer our nation through this challenging time. The American people have now seen what the President saw when he made the decision at the end of 15 days to slow the spread, to ask the American people to give us 30 more days, to continue to put into practice the president’s Coronavirus guidelines for America. Mike Pence: (28:37)And as you just heard from the experts, we have reason to believe that it’s working. As Dr. Fauci just said, there are difficult days ahead. Our hearts and our prayers go out to the families that have lost loved ones. And those as the President’s just reflected who we know are struggling at this hour in hospitals across the nation. But to each and every one of us, do not be discouraged, because what you can do to protect your health, the health of your family, what you can do to ensure that our healthcare providers have the resources, and our hospitals have the capacity to meet this moment is put into practice the president’s Coronavirus guidelines for America. Mike Pence: (29:26)It really is what every American can do. 30 days to slow the spread. 30 days to make a difference in the lives of the American people, American families, and the life of our nation. Allow me to give you a few brief updates before the president takes questions. First and foremost, we continue to work very closely with governors around the nation. President and I spoke to all the governors, all the states and territories yesterday. And since we were last together, the President and I have spoken directly and to several governors around the country including Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, New York, and others states. Mike Pence: (30:05)At the present moment, the President has declared 29 major disaster declarations and authorized 10 different states to use full federal funding, so-called Title 32 funding, to pay for their National Guard. And as of this afternoon, FEMA reports some 17,000 National Guard had been activated in states around the country to provide support for Coronavirus response. On the subject of testing, we have now completed more than 1.1 million tests around the country. We’re working very closely with governors around America to assist them in drive through and community testing centers. I spoke with governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois today about a testing center that they’ve established in cooperation with the US Public Health Service. Mike Pence: (30:55)We remind every governor and every laboratory and hospital in the country, it’s imperative that you continue to report daily to the CDC the results of those tests to give us the visibility on the data to best inform resource decisions. Also, we reiterated today to governors in person, and also through correspondence to every governor, the importance of using their National Guard if need be to move medical supplies. FEMA is very busy as you’ll hear in a moment, delivering literally millions of supplies to states around the country, but were urging every governor to make sure to work with their state emergency management team and maybe use the National Guard to move those supplies from warehouses to hospitals. Mike Pence: (31:43)At the present moment, as the President said, we’ve distributed more than 11.6 million N95 masks, more than 8,100 ventilators around the nation, millions of face shields, surgical masks, and gloves. We initiated an air bridge that the President announced yesterday. Flights have arrived in New York. One arrived in Illinois yesterday, and a flight will arrive in Ohio in the next 24 hours. FEMA is literally working and contracting around the world with now more than 51 flights that will be bringing vital medical supplies on the subject of ventilators, FEMA is currently delivering 400 ventilators to Michigan, 300 to New Jersey, 150 to Louisiana, 50 ventilators to Connecticut. And in the last week and in the week ahead, more than 450 ventilators to Illinois. This is in addition to more than 4,400 ventilators that the president and FEMA directed to the state of New York. Mike Pence: (32:44)We just want people that are working on the front lines, that the President just spoke about, Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci spoke about, we want you to know, help is on the way. And at the President’s direction, we’re going to leave no stone unturned anywhere in America or anywhere in the world and make sure that you have the resources and the equipment to do your job. So again, I want to just say thank you America. Thank you for stepping up. Thank you for putting into practice the 15 days to slow the spread. And thank you for the response of tens of millions who have already had for the 30 days to slow the spread. We encourage each one of you as we have governors around the country to spread the word about the guidelines. Mike Pence: (33:27)Listen to your state and local authorities in areas that are more greatly impacted. We continue to urge people in the areas of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut to refrain from travel around the country. And people who’ve traveled from that area, check your temperature and self quarantine for 14 days. You can see from that chart the unique challenges people in the greater New York city area are facing with the Coronavirus, and we want to do all that we can to protect your health, focus resources on our community, and prevent unnecessary spread. Lastly, as the president highlighted yesterday, businesses… Mike Pence: (34:03)Necessary spread. Lastly, as the President highlighted yesterday, businesses around America are stepping up as never before. Tomorrow, I’ll travel with Secretary Sonny Purdue to Gordonsville, Virginia to the Walmart Distribution Center, just so the American people can see firsthand how the food supply is continuing to roll on 18 wheels and through air freight all over America, and we thank again the grocery store operators around America, and everybody that’s working out on the highways and byways every day to keep that food supply rolling and rolling strong. Mike Pence: (34:33)To the American people though, we just want to assure you that we’re going to continue to work our hearts out, work our hearts out to make sure our healthcare providers have everything they need, that anyone struggling with coronavirus has the support and healthcare they need, and I’m absolutely confident, seeing the way our governors are responding and seeing this team the President has assembled in the White House Coronavirus Task Force, confident of the prayers of the American people that we’ll get through this, but it will take all of us doing our part, and we’ll get through it together. Speaker 1: (35:09)Just to be clear, what is the projected death toll? Should people be reasonably good at following these mitigation measures? Donald Trump: (35:15)Well, are they reasonably good? I guess we could say that, I’d like to have maybe Dr. Fauci or Deb come up and say, but I have numbers, but I’d rather have them say the numbers if you don’t mind. It’s a big question. Dr. Birx : (35:31)So of course this is a projection and it’s a projection based on using very much what’s happened in Italy, and then looking at all the models, and so as you saw on that slide, that was our real number, that 100,000 to 200,000, and we think that that is the range. We really believe and hope every day that we can do a lot better than that, because that’s not assuming 100% of every American does everything that they’re supposed to be doing. But I think that’s possible. Speaker 1: (36:03)Over the next two weeks, as you said, the next two weeks are going to be very painful as the bulk of it’s going to happen over the next two weeks. Dr. Birx : (36:10)You know, you’ll have an up slope, so as mortality, the fatalities to this disease will increase and then it will come back down, and it will come back down slower than the rate at which it went up. And so that is really the issue, how much we can push the mortality down. Dr. Fauci: (36:33)So our hope is to get that down as far as we possibly can. The modeling that Dr. Birx showed predicts that number that you saw. We don’t accept that number that that’s what’s going to be. We’re going to be doing everything we can to get it even significantly below that. So, I don’t want it to be a mixed message. This is the thing that we need to anticipate, but that doesn’t mean that that’s what we’re going to accept. We want to do much, much better than that. Speaker 2: (37:03)But doctor, when we look at the curve, it goes much further in time. So we would have death and cases for much longer. I mean, we do expect [inaudible 00:00:37:14]- Dr. Birx : (37:14)So, could you get up slide number two? So that’s a generic, I’m sorry if you can go back to the slides and put up slide two, okay, so what I showed you was a generic picture of what happens in an epidemic when you mitigate, so no mitigation, mitigate. This is based on the experience around the globe with this particular virus, and so it does have a tail, but the peak you can see by this projection, and this is the IHME data, the peak is over the next two weeks, and this is tracking mortality, so the number of fatalities from this virus, and so that’s the part that we think we can still blunt through the superb medical care that every client is receiving, but also even more stringent, people following the guidelines. Speaker 2: (38:09)I can’t see the small characters, but are we seeing death until June? I can’t really- Dr. Birx : (38:16)This is June. Speaker 2: (38:17)This is June, so we would still see problems and deaths in June. Dr. Birx : (38:22)It’s a projection. Speaker 2: (38:23)It’s a projection, of course. Dr. Fauci: (38:24)So, I mean, just getting back to what I said about the stepwise thing, deaths always lag, so you will be seeing deaths at a time when as an epidemic we’re doing really, really well because the deaths will lag. Jim Acosta: (38:38)But Dr. Fauci, should Americans be prepared for the likelihood that there will be 100,000 Americans who die from this virus? Dr. Fauci: (38:48)The answer is yes, as sobering a number as that is, we should be prepared for it. Is it going to be that much? I hope not, and I think the more we push on the mitigation, the less likelihood it would be that number, but as being realistic, we need to prepare ourselves that that is a possibility that’s what we will see. Jim Acosta: (39:09)That’s a very short period of time for that to happen. Dr. Fauci: (39:12)Right. Jim Acosta: (39:12)Can the country handle that in such a short period of time within a couple of months, 50,000 a month? Dr. Fauci: (39:19)You know, it will be difficult. I mean no one is denying the fact that we are going through a very, very difficult time right now. I mean, we’re seeing what’s happening in New York. That is really, really tough, and if you extrapolate that to the nation, that will be really tough. But that’s what it is, Jim, and we’re going to have to be prepared for that. Dr. Birx : (39:37)I think because the model, that model that was from IHME, that’s based in heavily ladened by the data that has come in from New York and New Jersey and Connecticut. So, you know, that can skew to a higher peak and more significant mortality. If all of the other states are able, and all the other metro areas are able to hold that case number down, then it’s a very different picture. But you have to predict on the data you have, which is heavily skewed to New York and New Jersey. Dr. Fauci: (40:16)Getting back to that, that’s really an important slide that Dr. Birx showed. The cluster of other cities that are not New York and not New Jersey, if we can suppress that from any kind of a spike, the numbers could be significantly lower than what we’re talking about. Jim Acosta: (40:32)[inaudible 00:40:32] cities that are not following these guidelines- Dr. Fauci: (40:34)Right, and that’s the reason my plea at the end of my remarks, Jim, that now was the time to put your foot on the accelerator, because that’s the only thing that’s going to stop those peaks. Donald Trump: (40:49)But some of the cities are doing very well, as you see, very well at this early stage, but the number, the doctor said 100,000. All numbers between a 100,000 and 200,000 maybe even slightly more, but we would hope that we could keep it under. Dr. Birx : (41:00)Can we have the next slide or slide after that? Just go, yeah, one more slide. Perfect. Yeah. Jim Acosta: (41:07)Would you tell cities that aren’t doing what New York, New Jersey, Washington, the cities that have been taking charge in all of this, would you urge some of the cities that haven’t been doing this, Mr. President, to get with the program? Donald Trump: (41:23)Well, I would, but you see, New York, I believe the blue is New York, New York is having a much harder time than other of the cities. Certain cities are doing… Actually, you look down here, an incredible job. They were early. They were very, very firm and they’ve done an incredible job. This is New Jersey, New York. This is… Dr. Birx : (41:44)I mean, remember, California and Washington state, were down here and they had some of the earliest cases. Jim Acosta: (41:48)But we’re seeing places in Florida not doing what New York and New Jersey have been doing, what Washington state has been doing. Donald Trump: (41:56)I think they’re doing very well with the [inaudible 00:41:56]. [crosstalk 00:41:58] Yes. Speaker 3: (42:00)Could maybe direct the question to you and then to Dr. Fauci as well, we were told yesterday that your accomplishment of the U.S., at least is accomplishing 100,000 tests per day, but we’re still hearing difficult stories from the front lines, some of the first responders that you praised so appropriately a little while ago, that they can’t test all of the people that they need to test. Do you have any kind of projection as to when everyone who needs a test will be able to receive one? Donald Trump: (42:27)I can only say that we’re doing more than anybody in the world by far. We are testing highly accurate tests. These are tests that work, as you know, many tests are being sent to countries that are broken. Speaker 3: (42:39)But it’s still not enough. Donald Trump: (42:39)Well, every day we get, and the word is exponential, we are getting more and more and more, and now we have the new tests that you saw yesterday. That’s going to be rolled out, I think, tomorrow or the next day, and that’s going to take only a few minutes, literally a few minutes to see the result and it’s a highly accurate result. I mean the tests were given out not by us, by other countries, where there was a 50/50 chance that it was wrong. What kind of a test is that? These are highly accurate tests, but the new tests that are coming out are very quick and they were just developed. Abbott Labs did the one yesterday. So we’re doing more than anybody in the world by far and they’re very accurate tests, and we’re getting a lot of information from those tests. [crosstalk 00:43:23] Mike Pence: (43:26)The test President unveiled yesterday, the Abbott Laboratories test, which is a 15 minute test, our team is working very closely with [inaudible 00:43:37] and FEMA to make sure that those are distributed around the country. Earlier this week, Abbott Laboratories is actually going to be producing 50,000 tests a day and distributing those around America. There’s already the machines in some 18,000 different locations around the country, and they’ve told us they have several thousand on the shelf now, and what we’re doing is trying to identify the areas where we may yet have pockets, or as Dr. Birx often says, where we want to do more immediate testing so that we can do what’s called surveillance testing to identify where there may be coronavirus cases where there’s been very little incident. Mike Pence: (44:19)But if I could just amplify one other point, and that is that when you look at this chart, go back 15 days, and the reality is that, now this is me speaking as a lay person, but as I’ve listened to our experts, and New York and the greater New York City area have unique challenges. It’s a city that we really believe may have had exposure to the coronavirus much earlier on than we could have known and had its own challenges. New York, Connecticut, New Jersey are leaning into this effort. But when we look at this chart for all the other states, including Washington state and California, it really does give evidence, that at least it begins to give evidence that the 15 days to slow the spread is working, and that in fact the American people are putting these things into practice in states across the country, including in New York and New Jersey, even though they’ve faced a greater magnitude of cases for certain circumstances that are related to international travel in those communities. But I think- Jim Acosta: (45:24)Should there be a national shelter in place? [Crosstalk 00:45:26] Mike Pence: (45:26)No, I think the American people, what I’m suggesting, Jim, is the American people can look at these numbers in the other 48 states, and they can see that in the last 15 days, the President’s coronavirus guidelines were working, and that’s precisely why President Trump is asking every American to continue to put these guidelines into practice for 30 more days. [crosstalk 00:45:46] Speaker 4: (45:51)So right now we’re at about 4,000 deaths here in the United states, and you’re suggesting a spike of more than 90,000 deaths over the next few weeks? Do you have a demographic breakdown of the areas that are most at risk and where most of those deaths may occur? Dr. Birx : (46:08)Well, right now, and I think if you ask Chris Murray, he would say he’s using the information coming out of New York and New Jersey, and applying that to potentially other states having the same outcomes. I just want to say again, this yellow line, and this is all corrected for a hundred thousand residents, so this is normalized so we can compare apples to apples. This is still Washington state, this yellow. So they’ve been able to, for a long time of measuring cases, not have a spike. So it’s possible, and we’re watching very closely to make sure it doesn’t have a spike, but that’s what the people in Washington state are doing. This is what every community, so Washington state early, about two weeks before New York or New Jersey, California, a week before New York or New Jersey, really talked to their communities and decided to mitigate before they started seeing this number of cases. And now we know that that makes a big difference. Early, as Dr. Fauci said, If you wait until you see it, it’s too late. Speaker 4: (47:23)Again, do you have a demographic breakdown, Dr. Birx, of Where these deaths may occur? Dr. Birx : (47:26)So there’s a demographic breakdown that we’ve discussed before related to mortality, and it’s as we’re seeing in New York exactly what we saw in Italy, very low mortality. Not to say that young people under 30 or young people under 40 aren’t getting ill, they are, but most of them are recovering. So the profile looks identical to Italy with increasing mortality with age and pre-existing medical conditions. And so that is holding in the same way. But what we’re hoping is that through the work of communities, and again it comes down to communities. This is communities deciding that this is important to them to not have the experience of New York and New Jersey, and I think, we are worried about groups all around the globe. I mean, I don’t know if you heard the report this morning, there’s 8,000 ventilators in the UK. If you translate that to the United states, that would be like the United states having less than 40,000 ventilators. We have five times that amount. So I mean, these are the things that everybody is having to face, and I think the United states is in an excellent position from our medical care position, but we don’t want to have to test that system. We want this to be a much smaller epidemic with much smaller mortality. Speaker 5: (48:54)Can I just follow up on the testing question real quick before we move on. So, so the testing numbers, I understand a million tests done is a big increase, but we were told there would be a 27 million tests available by the end of the month. So can you outline where in the supply chain, where in the logistics chain, where are the other 26 million tests right now? Mike Pence: (49:15)I think this is just for purposes of clarification, there’s a difference between sending a test that can be administered, to a test being done, and because a month ago or more, the President brought together the top commercial labs in America and said, “We need you to partner with us to create a brand new system that would rapidly process tests.” We’re now at 1.1 million tests and we believe it’s a fair estimate that we’re testing about a hundred thousand Americans a day. That’ll continue to grow. It will continue to accelerate, but I think the misunderstanding early on was there were many tests being distributed, many test kits being sent, but under the old system, as the President’s described it, the antiquated system, those were being processed in state labs, or at CDC, or in private labs on a very slow, methodical system that could only produce maybe 30 to 50 tests a day. Mike Pence: (50:24)But this new partnership that we have with commercial laboratories allows the progress we’re making. But the breakthrough with Abbott Laboratories now moves to point of care, which means you’re going to have devices and tests that people will literally be able to take at their doctor’s office, at a hospital, at a clinic, at a nursing home, and have the results in 15 minutes. Speaker 5: (50:46)So they’re the 26 million tests we were talking about. Were those tests under the old antiquated system? Mike Pence: (50:51)Yes. Speaker 5: (50:52)So are we still even using those 27 million tests or have we just completely moved on to the point of care tests? Mike Pence: (50:58)The answer is yes, now through the new system. Dr. Birx : (51:00)So even today, which is I have to say, coming out of laboratories and develop tests, and worked on vaccines and then gone to the field to actually combat epidemics, it is disappointing to me right now that we have about 500,000 capacity of avid tests that are not being utilized. So they are out there in the states, they’re not being run and not utilized. So now we have to figure out how do we create awareness? Because sometimes when you put an early platform out, like our first platform out in the high speed was Roche, so you get that out, people get dependent on that and then don’t see that there’s availability of other tests. So right now there’s over a half a million tests sitting capacity that are not being utilized. So we’re trying to figure how do we inform states about where these all are? How do we work through every laboratory association so they’re aware? And how do we raise awareness so people know that there’s point of care, there’s Thermo Fisher, there’s Abbott testing, and there’s Roche. Dr. Birx : (52:04)And if you add those together, that’s millions of tests a week. Donald Trump: (52:09)And they’re not being reported. Dr. Birx : (52:10)So those are the all [crosstalk 00:18:10], or they’re not even being used, so that’s what we’re working on. Speaker 6: (52:16)What’s the reason they’re being used? Dr. Birx : (52:18)Because when people get used to a single platform, they keep sending it back to that lab, so it’s getting an acute way to get on a Roche machine, rather being moved to this other lab that may have Abbott capacity, because they’re all in different laboratories. [inaudible 00:52:33] So I think, well actually, Admiral Giroir is figuring it out to really create some kind of visual, so that every governor and every health commissioner can see all of their capacity in their countries, I mean, in their states, county by county, so that they know where the tests are. So we pushed a lot of tests out, but they’re not all being utilized. Donald Trump: (52:55)And it’s up to the people if they don’t send them back. I mean, they use them. They don’t send a back. Doctor, go ahead, please. Dr. Fauci: (53:00)No, I mean, Dr. Birx explained it very, very well. I just want to get back, John, to your question. It’s a logical question. When you look at the number, you want to know what the demography is going to be. This is a number that we need to anticipate, but we don’t necessarily have to accept it as being inevitable. And that’s getting back to what I’m saying about we can influence this to a varying degrees, and if we influence it to the maximum, we don’t have to accept that. That’s something we need to anticipate. But I want to do, not I, all of us, want to do much, much better than that. Speaker 7: (53:34)And on that front, what do the models suggest is on the low end if you have full mitigation? Donald Trump: (53:40)Well, it says- Dr. Birx : (53:42)That was full mitigation. Donald Trump: (53:45)It says between 100 and 200,000. Dr. Fauci: (53:45)That was full mitigation. Donald Trump: (53:46)It says 100 to 200,000, anything, it’s a lot of people. Right? It’s a lot of people. Well, you didn’t ask the other question. What would have happened, because this is the question that I’ve been asking Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx for a long time, and they’ve been working on this for a long time. The question is what would have happened if we did nothing? Because there was a group that said let’s just ride it out. Let’s ride it out. What would have happened? And that number comes in at 1.5 to 1.6 million people, up to 2.2 and even beyond. So that’s 2.2 million people would’ve died if we did nothing. We just carried on our life. Now I don’t think that would’ve been possible because you would have had people dying all over the place. This would not have been a normal life. How many people have even seen anybody die? You would have seen people dying on airplanes. You would’ve been seeing people dying in hotel lobbies. You would have seen death all over. Donald Trump: (54:40)So I think from a practical standpoint, that couldn’t have been carried out too far. But if you did nothing on the higher side, the number would be 2.2 and maybe even more, and on the lower side, 1.6 million people. Speaker 7: (54:57)Understood. But if 100,000 is the number with full mitigation, how do you push it lower? [crosstalk 00:55:04] Dr. Birx : (55:04)No, we’ll go together. We’ve been at this a long time. You go first. Dr. Fauci: (55:07)So, John, it’s an obvious very good question. If this is full mitigation and it’s 100,000, why am I standing here saying I want to make it better? Because that’s what the model tells you it’s going to do. What we do is that every time we get more data, you feed it back in and re-look at the model. Is the model really telling you what’s actually going on? And again, I know my modeling colleagues are going to not be happy with me, but models are as good as the assumptions you put into them, and as we get more data, then you put it in and that might change. So even though it says according to the model, which is a good model that we’re dealing with, this is full mitigation. As we get more data, as the weeks go by, that could be modified. Speaker 8: (55:59)Why does the model now, the top line on the low ball estimate, why does that not talk about it? I think it said 240,000 not 200,000. Is that a change? Is that because the states haven’t been doing enough? Dr. Birx : (56:10)You know, it just has to do with, if you had more New Yorks and New Jersies, Chicago, Detroit, LA, Dallas, Houston, all of our major cities modeled like New York, that’s what gets us into trouble. But I am reassured by looking at the Seattle line, by looking at the LA line, by looking at what California has been able to do, that that is not something that I don’t believe that’s going to happen. That is the outside case of having 10, 15 metros like New York and the New Jersey metro area. Speaker 8: (56:55)But New York had community spread pretty early undetected, so don’t many of those other states if not more of them, who had even less information, aren’t they likely to see the same spike? Dr. Birx : (57:05)Well, California and Washington state reacted very early to this. Yes, Washington state had some of the earliest infections. They have kept it low and steady and for now a month has been tracking it with a small increase in the number of cases, but not this log rhythmic form of the virus, and so that’s the piece that we’re trying to prevent. That’s the piece that we’re trying to prevent in New Orleans, and Detroit, and Chicago, and in Boston right now, and trying to make sure that each of those cities work more like California than the New York metro area. Speaker 9: (57:47)Mr. President, I just wanted to get your thoughts on face masks. We asked you about this yesterday and you signaled you were thinking about it. Donald Trump: (57:53)Just to end the last topic [inaudible 00:00:57:55], I think I can say this because I spoke to Dr. Birx before, and to Dr. Fauci, for whatever reason, New York got off to a very late start, and you see what happens when you get off to a late start. New Jersey got off, and I think both governors are doing an excellent job, but they got off to a very late start. When you look at Washington state, if you remember, that all started in a very confined nursing home, and you had 20 some odd people, I believe dying in one home. That doesn’t mean it escaped that home, and so they have a very different statistic than other states. But I mean, I remember it very vividly, the nursing home in Washington state, where you had many people dying every day, people were dying in the one exact location, so they were able to keep that relatively speaking into that location. Speaker 10: (58:56)[crosstalk 00:58:56] Were you surprised when you saw these projections? Because the numbers are sobering. Donald Trump: (59:01)They are very sobering. Yeah, when you see 100,000 people and that’s at a minimum number. Now what we’re looking at, and as many people as we’re talking about, whatever we can do under that number and substantially under that number, we’ve done that through really great mitigation. We’ve done that through a lot of a very dedicated American people. That 100,000 is, according to modeling, a very low number. In fact, when I first saw the number, and I asked this a while ago, they said it’s unlikely you’ll be able to attain that. I think we’re doing better than that. Now I think, we have to see, but I think we’re doing better than that because as John said, that would be a lot of lives taking place over a relatively short period of time. But think of what would have happened if we didn’t do anything. Donald Trump: (59:48)I mean, I’ve had many friends, business people, people with great, actually common sense, they said, “Why don’t we ride it out?” A lot of people have said. A lot of people that thought about it, ride it out, don’t do anything, just ride it out, and think of it as the flu. But it’s not the flu. It’s vicious. When you send a friend to the hospital and you call up to find out how is he doing, it happened to me, where he goes to the hospital and he says goodbye, he’s sort of a tough guy, a little older, a little heavier than he’d like to be frankly, and you call up the next day, how’s he doing, and he’s in a coma. This is not the flu. So we would have seen things had we done nothing. But for a long while, a lot of people were asking that question, I think, right? Donald Trump: (01:00:35)I was asking it also. I mean, a lot of people were saying, “Well, let’s just ride it out. This is not to be ridden out, because then you would’ve been looking potentially 2.2 million people or more, 2.2 million people in a relatively short period of time. If you remember, they were looking at that concept, it’s a concept I guess, you know it’s concept if you don’t mind death, a lot of death, but they were looking at that in the UK, remember? They were very much looking at it and all of a sudden they went hard the other way, because they started seeing things that weren’t good. So they put themselves in a little bit of a problem. Now, Boris tested positive and I hope he’s going to be fine, but in the UK, they were looking at that, and they have a name for it, but we won’t even go by the name. But it would have been, it would have been very catastrophic, I think, if that would’ve happened. Donald Trump: (01:01:33)But that was something that everybody was talking about, Steve. Like, just don’t do anything, don’t do anything. Forget about everything. Just ride it out. They used the expression, ride it out. We would have had at a minimum 1.5, 1.6, but you would have had perhaps a more than 2.2 million people dying in a very short period of time. And that would have been a number that the likes of which we’ve never seen. Donald Trump: (01:01:58)So now when we look at our package that we just approved for $2 trillion, all of a sudden it seems very reasonable. Right? When you’re talking about 2 million lives, all of a sudden it seems very reasonable. I must say, a lot of people that have been seeing the more advanced numbers, because these are much more advanced numbers now. You know when you first started, we didn’t know, and this was a different kind of a virus, and nobody knew that much about it, even the experts, you don’t really know where it’s going. But then they see what goes on in Italy, and they see what goes on in Spain, and you see France is having a very hard time, and other countries having a very, very hard time. But once they see what’s going on, they start making projections. So I hope they’re going to be very high projections. But based on everything else, that would be the number. Let’s see if we can do much better than that. I hope we can. Yeah, John. Speaker 11: (01:02:50)What about masks? You didn’t answer about the masks. [Crosstalk 00:28:51]. Speaker 12: (01:02:50)What’s your recommendation? I understand there’s an issue with supplies. Donald Trump: (01:02:56)That’s right. [crosstalk 01:02:57] Well, it’s this way. You know, you can use a scarf. A lot of people have scarfs and you can use a scarf. Scarf would be very good, and my feeling is if people want to do it, there’s certainly no harm to it. I would say do it, but use a scarf if you want, rather than going out and getting a mask or whatever. We’re making millions and millions of masks, but we want them to go to the hospitals. I mean, one of the things that Dr. Fauci told me today is we don’t want them competing. We don’t want everybody competing with the hospitals where you really need them. So you can use scarfs. You can use something else over your face. It doesn’t have to be a mask, but it’s not a bad idea, at least for a period of time. I mean, eventually you’re not going to want to do that. You’re not going to have to do that. This is going to be gone. It’ll be gone, hopefully gone for a long time. [crosstalk 01:03:49] Please. Speaker 13: (01:03:51)Mr. President, the mitigation steps that are on your 30 day plan. Is that enough or is more needed? Have you been discussing that behind the scenes? Donald Trump: (01:03:58)Well, we’re going to find out. We hope it’s enough. We hope it’s enough. We hope we’re at a level where we could say, “Let’s go because our country wants to get back to work.” We really want to get back. Everybody wants to get back to work. Now, I could ask the doctors to answer that question, but we discus that all the time. What do you think? Speaker 13: (01:04:16)Have they been recommending harsher mitigation efforts? Donald Trump: (01:04:19)Well, I think we’ve been very harsh. I mean, you look at the streets. I looked at 5th Avenue today on camera, and I didn’t see anybody walking on the street, and I’m used to watching that street, you can’t see the asphalt, you can’t see the concrete, and you look and there’s nobody. There was one car. It looked like it might’ve been a taxi cab and it was in a time of the morning that there’d normally there’d be a lot of people. I mean, I think the mitigation has been very strong. Please. Speaker 14: (01:04:47)Mr. President, will you confirm your plans to defer tariff payments for 90 days and secondly on interest? Donald Trump: (01:04:54)I didn’t do anything about tariff payments. I don’t know who’s talking about tariff payments. They keep talking about tariff payments and we haven’t done that. China’s paying us. We made a deal with China. Under the deal, they’re paying us 25% on $250 billion and they pay it. And I spoke with President Jinping the other day and we didn’t mention that. We had a great conversation, by the way, a really productive conversation having to do with many things. Most of it was on the virus, but you know, we’re not talking… Who are you with? Who are you with? Speaker 14: (01:05:25)If I could just clarify. Donald Trump: (01:05:27)Who are you with? Speaker 14: (01:05:27)Wall Street Journal. Donald Trump: (01:05:29)Oh. Speaker 14: (01:05:29)There’s reporting by Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg that there’s a plan in motion- Donald Trump: (01:05:33)Yeah, I know, it’s an incorrect report. Well, that might be, but I’m going to have to approve the plan [crosstalk 01:05:37], but one thing I will tell you, I approve everything and they haven’t presented it to me, so therefore it’s false reporting, so therefore don’t do the story. If we’re going to do something, I’d be glad to let you know. There’s nothing wrong with doing it, but, we’ll let you know. Yeah, please. A couple of back, then we’ll get back to you, John. Speaker 15: (01:05:57)Thank you, sir. [inaudible 01:05:58] politics. I wanted to ask you about individual states issuing stay at home or what do you think, for instance, in Florida, Ron DeSantis has resisted urges to issue one of those, but he said moments ago that if you and the rest of the task force recommended one, that would weight on him heavily. What sort of circumstances need to be in place for you to make that call and say this is something you should consider? Donald Trump: (01:06:25)Different kind of a state, also great Governor, knows exactly what he’s doing, has a very strong view on it, and we have spoken to Ron. Mike, you want to just to tell him a little bit about that. Mike Pence: (01:06:36)Well, let me echo our appreciation for Governor DeSantis’ leadership in Florida. He’s been taking decisive steps from early on and working closely with our team at the federal level. But let me be very clear on this. The recommendation of our health experts was to take the 15 days to slow the spread, and have the President extend that to 30 days for every American. Now, that being said, we recognize that when you’re dealing with a health crisis in the country, it is locally executed by healthcare workers, but it’s state managed. And so we continue to flow information to state governors. We continue to hear about the data that they’re analyzing and consult with them. But at the President’s direction, the White House Coronavirus Task Force will continue to take the posture that we will defer to state and local health authorities on any measures that they deem appropriate. But for the next 30 days, this is what we believe every American and every state should be doing at a minimum to slow the spread. Donald Trump: (01:07:49)So, unless we see something obviously wrong, we’re going to let these governors good. Now, it’s obviously wrong, I mean, people can make things, they can make a decision that we think is so far out that it’s wrong, we will stop that. But in the case of- Donald Trump: (01:08:03)So far out that it’s wrong, we will stop that. But in the case of Governor DeSantis, there’s two thoughts to it, and two very good thoughts to it, and he’s been doing a great job in every respect, so we’ll see what happens. But we only would exercise if we thought somebody was very obviously [inaudible 01:08:16] Go ahead. Your turn. Speaker 16: (01:08:17)Thanks. I had a question in a minute for the Vice President about the national strategic stockpile, but while you’re at the podium, I wanted to ask about your call with President Putin a couple of days ago. I know a big economic concern for a lot of people has been the state of oil prices right now, so I’m wondering if you raised that with President Putin, if you were able to [crosstalk 01:08:36] Donald Trump: (01:08:35)We did. We had a call that was probably about that, the oil prices, because as you know, Russia and Saudi Arabia are going at it, and they’re really going at it, and by going at it to the extent that they are, the oil has dropped to a point where, look, it’s the greatest tax cut we’ve ever given. If you look at it that way, because people are going to be paying 99 cents for a gallon of gasoline. It’s incredible. In a lot of ways, it’s going to help the airlines, but at the same time, it’s hurtful to one of our biggest industries. That’s the oil industry. It’s really, it’s not even feasible what’s going on. So I spoke to President Putin about that. I also spoke to the Crown Prince about that, Saudi Arabia. Speaker 16: (01:09:24)And they agreed on [crosstalk 00:01:24]. Donald Trump: (01:09:24)No, I think, yeah, they’re going to get together and we’re all going to get together, and we’re going to see what we can do. Because you don’t want to lose an industry. You’re going to lose an industry over it. 1000s and 1000s of jobs. I don’t know if you know. There’s oil all over the oceans right now. The boats are all filled. They’re renting ships. Ships that were dying, that weren’t doing well, and now that’s where they’re storing oil. And they’re sent out to sea, and they sit there for long periods of time. There’s so much oil. In some cases, it’s probably less valuable than water. In some parts of the world, water is much more valuable. Donald Trump: (01:09:59)So we’ve never seen anything like it. But the two countries are discussing it, and I am joining at the appropriate time, if need be. We had a great talk with President Putin. We had a great talk with the Crown Prince. We also discussed, more so with President Putin in this case, the virus, because Russia’s being hit pretty hard. And we discussed many things. Trade. We discussed a lot of things with both. But in the case of both, we very much discussed the oil and the oil prices. I mean, you look, it’s $22, but it’s really much cheaper than that if you want to negotiate. Nobody’s seen that. That’s like from the 1950s. It really is. To think that it was 50, 60, 70, 80, and now it’s 22. But you know, if you put a good bid in at nine, I think you could probably get what you wanted, right? Donald Trump: (01:10:54)John, please. John: (01:10:55)Mr. President, you tweeted earlier today that now would be a good time to start looking toward if there is a light at the end of the tunnel and work on an infrastructure bill. Again, you suggested it should be $2 trillion, which is twice what the last one was for the proposal released. Are you anticipating that like after the economic crisis of 2008, 2009, America will need to have so called shovel ready jobs ready to go to get people back to work? Donald Trump: (01:11:22)Well, the problem with that one is they had maybe shovel ready jobs, maybe not, but they never used it for the purpose of infrastructure. So far, nobody has been able to find any money that was spent on infrastructure. I want to use it for infrastructure. And one of the reasons I’m suggesting it, John, is we’re paying zero interest. The United States is paying almost zero interest rate. The Federal Reserve lowered the rate, the fed rate. And that and a combination of the fact that everybody wants to be in the United States. You know, we have a dollar that’s very strong, and I know that sounds good, but it does make it hard to manufacture and sell outside, because other currencies are falling, and our currency is very strong. It’s very, very strong. Proportionately, it’s through the roof. Donald Trump: (01:12:05)So we have a strong dollar. People want to invest in the United States, especially nowadays where they’re looking at safety. They have all of the problems, plus the virus at 151 countries. They all want to come into the United States. And so we have a zero interest rate, essentially. And I said, “Wouldn’t this be a great time to borrow money at zero interest rate and really build our infrastructure like we can do it?” So the plan was, the Republicans had a plan of about 750. I would say… They were where? At seven five? The Democrats were a little less than a trillion dollars. The Republicans were a little bit less than that. Donald Trump: (01:12:40)And I’m suggesting $2 trillion. We redo our roads, our highways, our bridges. We fix up our tunnels, which are many of them in bad shape, like coming into New York, as you know, really bad shape. And we really do a job on our infrastructure, and that doesn’t mean we’re going to do the Green New Deal, because I won’t do it. I won’t approve it. We’re not going to do the Green New Deal and spend 40% of the money on things that people just have fun with. Steve: (01:13:08)How would you pay for it, sir? Donald Trump: (01:13:10)We’re going to borrow the money at zero percent interest, so our interest payments would be almost zero, and we can borrow long term. People want to be in the United States. They want to be invested in the United States. Go ahead, Jim. Jim: (01:13:22)I want to get back to the virus. You were saying at the beginning of the press conference that you’re looking at holding back 10000 ventilators. Is that because you need to pick and choose where these ventilators are going to have to go because of the nature of the pandemic [crosstalk 01:13:37]- Donald Trump: (01:13:36)Right, that’s a good question. Jim: (01:13:37)-spreading, and also I just wanted to ask Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx, if it’s possible after you finish, is that part of the reason why you’re projecting 100000 to 200000 deaths? Are there going to be some people who aren’t going to be able to get ventilators or be put on ventilators? Donald Trump: (01:13:51)Actually, just the opposite, because we’re holding back. We have almost 10000. And we’re holding, because we’re going to need them over the next couple of weeks as the surge goes on. You see the chart. We haven’t hit the top yet. And we have to be able to move them immediately. And we can’t take them, because it’s going to be very hard to do that. We can’t take them to places that aren’t needing them. Plus we have requests for ventilators in hospitals and in states and cities that don’t need them, in our opinion. They don’t need them. They won’t need them [inaudible 01:14:22] for flexibility. We just took 600, and we sent them to different locations today, but we have close to 10000, and we’ll be able to get them. And we’re all set to march. We have the National Guards, and we have FEMA, and we’re all set to move them to the places. Donald Trump: (01:14:38)So as for your second question, what we’re going to do is save lives because of it, because otherwise, we would not be able to get to [inaudible 01:14:45] and we don’t know what the hottest spot- Jim: (01:14:47)[crosstalk 01:14:47] ventilator shortage right now? Donald Trump: (01:14:49)In some areas we might, but we’ve done a great job with ventilators, and we’re having them made. Unbelievable, we have now 11 companies making ventilators. Now they’ll be starting to arrive in the next week, but we’ve also grabbed a lot of them. Some hospitals had more than they were saying, or at least more than we knew about, which is a good thing, not a bad thing. But we want to be able to have, I guess the word would be flexibility, so that if the surge turns out to be much stronger in Louisiana, which it could, that we can immediately bring 1000 or 2000 to Louisiana. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to get them. We wouldn’t be able to say, “Listen, Governor Cuomo in New York, we want to take ventilators away from New York.” And they’ll say, “Well, we can’t do that. It would be a disaster.” So we have great flexibility. Donald Trump: (01:15:38)Now when this surge occurs, if it occurs fairly evenly, we’ll be able to distribute them very quickly before they need them. But we have a reserve right now. It’s like having oil reserves, except more valuable, frankly. But we have a reserve right now. And we’ll be able, and we also have a great team of people ready to deliver. They can move them fast. So when we see it going up in a certain state, and Louisiana could be one, and Michigan could be another with Detroit, because Detroit is having a lot of hard times right now. Detroit came out of nowhere, and that’s what happens with this. It comes out of nowhere. Donald Trump: (01:16:15)So we are ready, Jim, depending on what happens. And we have a stockpile. And that’s why it’s called a stockpile. A lot of the ventilators and a lot of the other equipment, rather than sending it to the stockpile, we had it sent directly to a hospital, to a location, to a place, so we didn’t have the cumbersome nature of having it come in unboxed, put in and then deliver it. We have it brought, which they’d never done before. They don’t do that. Generally speaking, they don’t do that. Donald Trump: (01:16:42)But we’ve had, I think, Mike, we’ve had tremendous success of doing that. That’s for other items, including ventilators, where it’s brought to the site that needs it. But we have a good supply of ventilators, and we’re ready to go. We’re all ready. We have trucks ready. We have everything ready, because as we’re saying, John, this could be a hell of a bad two weeks. This is going to be a very bad two and maybe even three weeks. This is going to be three weeks like we haven’t seen before. John: (01:17:09)Should the hospitals be prepared for that? We’re hearing from some hospitals- Donald Trump: (01:17:12)Well, I think the hospitals- John: (01:17:13)-that they’re facing what looks like a medical war zone in some of these places. Donald Trump: (01:17:16)Yeah. They are going to be facing a war zone. That’s what it is. I’ve heard some of the paramedics and some of the doctors. They said they’d been in war zones. They’ve never seen anything like this. You look at Elmhurst Hospital in Queens. I’ve never seen. I mean, I look, I just think it’s so, because that’s a hospital that’s near where I grew up. And it is a war zone in a true sense. Yeah, please? Speaker 18: (01:17:39)Yeah. On the ventilators, so we’ve been hearing from governors who say they are fighting amongst themselves, essentially bidding amongst themselves to get these ventilators. Donald Trump: (01:17:47)They shouldn’t be doing that. If that happens, they should be calling us. Look, we have ventilators, but we’ve distributed 1000s of ventilators. But they shouldn’t be doing that. And if they need them that badly, we know. We have pretty good ideas of where they’re going to need them. Some people, frankly, think they need them, and they don’t need them. I don’t want to mention names, but there are some people that want them, and it’s really not the right thing. Then you have some people that I guess automatically hoard a little bit. They want to have more than they think they need. But a ventilator is a very precious piece of equipment right now. It’s hard to make. It takes a long time to make it. It’s complex. Some of them are like the dashboard of an airplane. I mean, they’re very complicated and very expensive machines, and some are much simpler. But we’re ready to go depending on what happens. Donald Trump: (01:18:38)But we have some hospitals in some states that think they need ventilators, and we don’t think they do. Now if they do need them, we will have them there before they need them. We’ll be able to move very quickly. Speaker 18: (01:18:48)You’re confident that- John: (01:18:48)What about the Hydroxychloroquine? Is there any booming data on these trials? Donald Trump: (01:18:53)Nothing that I’ve heard. I mean, that’s the first question I make every morning. I tell you, I call up, you know we have 1100. 1100 in New York right now, and we have other locations where patients, people are taking them. Now the good news is it’s only three days, and it’s like a seven or eight day treatment. The good news is we haven’t heard anything bad. In other words, there have been no catastrophic events. But we haven’t. It’s a little bit too soon to talk about it. It would be a total game changer, John, if that happened. If that happened, it would be a game changer. And we include that in that, and I think in all cases the Z-Pak, you know what the Z-Pak is. So we’re going to see what happens with the Hydroxychloroquine. [crosstalk 01:19:44] Donald Trump: (01:19:44)Yeah. Just one second. Steve? Steve: (01:19:45)Are there other antiviral drugs that have some promise of working soon? Donald Trump: (01:19:49)We’re looking at a lot of them. We’re looking at a lot of them. Some show promise. I think maybe the doctor might want to speak about the vaccines, because a lot of Johnson & Johnson is advanced, very advanced. We’ll see what happens. The one thing with the vaccine is it doesn’t help this group, because this group, you need to test a vaccine. The one thing with the drug you just mentioned, right, is that it’s been out. It’s a malaria drug and also an arthritis drug. So it’s been out there for a long time. Very powerful drug. But it’s been out there for a long time. So it’s tested in the sense that you know it doesn’t kill you, but you may want to discuss the vaccines for a second, Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci: (01:20:30)Thank you Mr. President. But just for a second before the vaccine, in answer to your question, Steve. There are a number of candidates. The drugs that are now being looked at in various ways, either compassionate use, clinical trials, are generally drugs that already exist for other things. There’s a whole menu of drugs and interventions that are now going into clinical trials that are not approved for anything yet. I mean, for example, things like immune serum, convalescent plasma or hyper immune globulin or monoclonal antibodies, a variety of other things. Right now there’s a lot of activity going on behind the scenes in the design of the kinds of clinical trials that will give us an answer, because you need an answer, because if it doesn’t work, you want to get it off the table and go to the next one. So there are a lot of things. Dr. Fauci: (01:21:18)Vaccine- Steve: (01:21:18)How long does that normally take? Weeks? Months? Dr. Fauci: (01:21:22)No, it takes at least months. At least months. At least. I mean, that’s the reason why you’re seeing a lot of activity with drugs that already exist for other purposes, because they’re already there. But the drugs that you want to show in a good randomized clinical trial, at very best, they’re going to take months. Just one word on the vaccine, exactly like we said, we hope that as we get into the summer, if in fact there are cases out there, when you’re in a phase two or phase three trial, or two, 2B, as we call it, that we might get an early efficacy signal. And an efficacy signal means that even though you haven’t definitively proven that a vaccine works, you get enough inflammation that if it were an emergency, you might be able to have an emergency youth authorization for it. [crosstalk 01:22:10] Donald Trump: (01:22:09)And I have to sit in this. Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin, which is, you take it with it, maybe, if you want, for the infection. I think some medical workers are doing that. Using it, maybe, or getting it prescribed perhaps for another use. But the word is that some are, and some aren’t. I mean, I think it’s not a bad idea to do it, but that’s up to the doctors. But there is a theory going around that in our country and some other countries, people are taking, that work in the hospitals, that work with the patients, because there is some evidence, and again, it’s going to have to be proven. It’s very early. We’re rushing this stuff through. This was supposed to take a long time to be approved, and I prevailed upon the FDA to get it approved immediately on the basis that it was already in the market for a lot of years for another use, malaria mostly. And arthritis, but mostly malaria. Donald Trump: (01:23:08)So we’ll see what happens. But there is a theory out there that for the medical worker, Doctor, it may work. It may work. And if you take it, it’s been out there for a long time. Please, go ahead. Speaker 16: (01:23:19)I just wanted to go back to Jim’s question about the national stockpile. The governor of [crosstalk 01:23:24]. Donald Trump: (01:23:24)About which? Speaker 16: (01:23:27)The national strategic stockpile. Governor of Connecticut today said that he was disturbed to learn that the stockpile was now empty. That’s his words. And he said- Donald Trump: (01:23:36)Well, it’s not empty. Let me explain something. What we’re doing, I thought I said it accurately. I certainly meant to. Rather than having it brought into the stockpile, where appropriate, other than certain things, like we have quite a few of the ventilators, which is not a lot when you look at the whole country, actually. It sounds like a lot, almost 10000, but we’re trying to have supply sent directly to the states, because we save a big state. We don’t want medical supplies coming in to warehouses all over the place, and then we take them from there and bring them to another warehouse. So we’re having it brought ideally from the manufacturer directly to the hospital or the state where it’s going. Donald Trump: (01:24:19)So we’re trying to keep it that way as much as possible. Now in some cases we are having it brought. Remember this. We also took over a virtually empty, and I say it again, just like we had no ammunition in the military, and we had virtually no ammunition. Well, we had very little in medical supplies, too, in our stockpile. So for the most part, we’re trying very hard to have it delivered to the site where they need it. Yeah. Please go ahead. Speaker 19: (01:24:45)Mr. President, here in the United States domestically, we can practice social distancing. But some of our sailors, specifically on the USS Theodore Roosevelt, they’re not able to. They’re in confined spaces. What are your thoughts on that? Should they be offloaded? And then, sir, are you concerned- Donald Trump: (01:25:02)I’m going to let the military make that decision. Speaker 19: (01:25:04)Are you concerned about US military readiness during this pandemic? For instance, what would happen if, as reported, China was to increase patrols in the South China Sea? What would your response be? Donald Trump: (01:25:15)Well, we’re going to see all about that. Don’t worry about our military. You saw the military put up a hospital in three and a half days with 2900 beds, with a lot of beds. Nobody’s ever seen anything like it. And by the way, that wasn’t the only one. It wasn’t just the Javits Center. It was at other locations. And now it’s Louisiana, and now it’s New Jersey, and now it’s other places. One thing that I think is indisputable is when I watched the Army Corps of Engineers, and FEMA working with them, but when I watched the Army Corps of Engineers throw up these hospitals, and they’re complex. I mean, these are incredible buildings, essentially. Tents and various things, but they did it in such a quick, such a short period of time. Donald Trump: (01:26:01)And our military is ready like you haven’t seen, and you know who are the best? The best guests are the different shows are, we watch the shows at night. And I think the best guests that I’ve seen in a long time are the military people. And they’ve never done it before. I’ve watched General Semonite, who I deal with a lot. I say, “General, you got to give us two new hospitals in Louisiana.” “Yes sir.” And the next morning, they’re building them at 6:00 in the morning, and they’re up in three days. I think they’re the best. The best guest you have. I guess I’m tired of the other guests, in all fairness. Speaker 18: (01:26:33)What kind of message do you have [crosstalk 00:18:35]. Donald Trump: (01:26:34)Jim, go ahead. Jim: (01:26:35)Yes, sir. This may be an uncomfortable question, but what would the models have looked like that Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci showed us if we had started the social distancing guidelines sooner than February or January when China, South Korea were doing those sorts of [crosstalk 01:26:52]. Donald Trump: (01:26:51)Well, I’m going to let them answer that. Yeah? Jim: (01:26:54)[crosstalk 01:26:54] reliable, in terms of what information we’re getting from them, but if we had started these practices sooner, could these models be different right now? Donald Trump: (01:26:59)Yeah, I’m going to let them answer the question, but remember this. And again, I say it and everybody says it. You know who says it better than anybody is Dr. Fauci. I had a decision to make. Maybe it was my biggest decision. China was heavily infected, and 1000s and 1000s of people were coming from China to the United States. And against the wishes, not even wishes, but they disagreed with the decision. I made a decision to stop China from coming in. Took a lot of heat, even from China. They weren’t exactly happy. I just made a trade deal, a big one, $250 billion trade deal. And I’m shortly thereafter saying, “You can’t come into our country.” Donald Trump: (01:27:38)That was a big decision. That was earlier than the date you’re talking about. So that was a big decision. That was probably, and by the way, not because I did it, that was probably the biggest decision we made so far. But if you look at the one graph, the problem New York has is New York started late, but the other ones didn’t start so late. Now New York is also more complicated, because for obvious reasons, but it got a late start. But do you maybe want to answer those questions? Dr. Birx: (01:28:07)I don’t know if you can go back to slide two, because I wanted to explain two things that I think is really important, because we had a lot of questions about mortality and what it meant. Okay. So you see this confidence interval? So here’s the line. This is the confidence interval. This is where we have the ability to push it down. So you have a large confidence interval around the line. And so we’re trying to move that gray down tighter and below the dotted line. So I think that’s really important. Dr. Birx: (01:28:45)And then if you can go to the next slide. So we really can’t answer your question until we can get antibody testing out there. Because what we can’t tell you, and we can always do this, there’s always samples in hospitals and other things. It’s the way we really define the HIV epidemic in the United States. We were able to go back to blood samples when we had the test and really find out where it was and what was going on. We really need to look in here. And really see was there virus significantly circulating in early March and late February? And what did it look like? And where was it? And was it all in the metro areas? And I think that’s what Dr. Fauci and I are very, very focused on is getting serology testing out there to really figure out when it came, and really have those samples to be able to do that. Jim: (01:29:43)You understand the painful part of my question, and please, I don’t mean to put you on the spot- Dr. Birx: (01:29:47)No, we understand, but we can’t answer it until we see that. Jim: (01:29:50)-but there may be Americans at home saying, “If we had started this sooner, we might not have 100000 to 200000 Americans dying.” Dr. Birx: (01:29:56)Well, that makes an assumption that it was here, a lot back here, that we didn’t see. And until we have the antibody tests, I can’t really answer that. Dr. Fauci: (01:30:07)Just to underscore what Dr. Birx was saying, if there was no virus in the background, there was nothing to mitigate. If there was virus there that we didn’t know about, then the answer to your question is probably yes. Now the only trouble with that is that whenever you come out and say something like that, it always becomes almost a sound bite that gets taken out of context, but I think that’s very important, what Dr. Birxs has said, is that if there was covert infections here that we didn’t know about, and we didn’t mitigate them, that they would’ve made a difference. If there was virtually nothing there, then there’s nothing to mitigate. And I don’t know the answer to your question. Jim: (01:30:47)But they were early. They started early. We were watching South Korea, excuse me, and China and Italy, and we weren’t taking action when those countries were spiking. Dr. Fauci: (01:30:55)In a perfect world, it would have been nice to know what was going on there. We didn’t, but I believe Jim, that we, we acted very, very early in that. Jim: (01:31:04)If we had adequate testing, would we have known? Dr. Fauci: (01:31:06)I’m not- Donald Trump: (01:31:09)We would have known the same thing. We inherited [inaudible 01:31:11]. Mike Pence: (01:31:13)Can I speak to that too as well? President made reference to the fact, January 31, he suspended all travel from China. Shortly thereafter, we issued strong travel advisories for the sections of Italy implicated and sections of South Korea, and we reached agreements with those countries to screen all passengers from all airports coming into the United States of America. The president’s initial efforts were designed at preventing the Coronavirus from coming into the United States. And what our experts have told us again and again at the Coronavirus task force is that those actions bought us a significant amount of time on this curve to respond with kind of mitigation efforts, standing up resources, testing and supplies that are in effect. Mike Pence: (01:32:04)But we went from a prevention strategy the President acted on before the month of January was over to a mitigation strategy, which continues to this day. And if I can also say just just to every American, all the questions about resources are very important. And I can assure you that the President and our task force are preoccupied with these issues and working with governors hour by hour to meet those needs. But if Americans will put into practice these guidelines for another 30 days, they’ll do their part to lower the curve and save lives, most importantly, and limit the burden on our hospitals and our healthcare system in the country significantly. Mike Pence: (01:32:56)And so make no mistake about it. While we’re going to work our hearts out, leave no stone unturned, to find the resources, the masks, the ventilators that we need, and we are going to meet that moment with the full energy of the American economy and the whole of the American government. The American people have a role to play in preserving that medical capacity in a way that will ensure that people that are caught up in the Coronavirus, particularly those that are vulnerable to the most serious outcomes, which are seniors with serious underlying health conditions or anyone with an immunodeficiency, have the resources, the support and the health care that every American family would want their loved one to have. [crosstalk 01:33:37] Donald Trump: (01:33:37)I do believe we were very early, but I also think that we were very smart, because we stopped China. We had never done that before. You know, we had never closed our borders before, as I read. I read. I don’t know, maybe that’s not right. And Dr. Fauci had also said that was, I think it was maybe the biggest moment, because we were stopping the source. We were stopping the infection. But we also stopped Europe very shortly thereafter. That was a big decision. That was not an easy decision either. I stopped them a long time before people started stopping anywhere. So we stopped China, we stopped Europe, we stopped all of Europe. And then ultimately we stopped UK, Ireland. Yes? [crosstalk 01:34:23] In the back there, please. Speaker 20: (01:34:28)Mr. President, [inaudible 01:34:28] going back to Hydroxychloroquine, how many clinical trial tests in America would you like to see before you put a stamp of approval on it? Because there are clinical trials taking place around the world right now. Donald Trump: (01:34:41)Sure, please. Speaker 20: (01:34:42)Is there a number? How many cases would you like to see? Dr. Fauci: (01:34:45)That is an FDA decision, and it really depends on a variety of factors, but I would like to see a clinical trial that has a comparison to something that is comparable to what it means without the drug. I mean, I keep saying it. I say it all the time, and I’ll say it again. It’s a control trial that compares it to something meaningful. When that occurs- Speaker 20: (01:35:06)[inaudible 01:35:06] trials that you’re watching taking place around the world right now? Dr. Fauci: (01:35:08)Well, there are a number of trials going on, not only in the United States but also in other parts of the world. And right now, it’s too early to make any determination, but I just want to get back to what I say all the time. The definitive way that you get an answer is by doing a randomized controlled clinical trial. [crosstalk 00:27:27]. Speaker 18: (01:35:26)Mr. President. Mr. President. Donald Trump: (01:35:27)Yeah please, go ahead. You’re talking about the chloroquine? Is that what you’re talking about? In specifically the last question? Speaker 18: (01:35:34)[crosstalk 01:35:36]. Donald Trump: (01:35:34)There are trials going on, but there are also trials going on, we’re trying them on people that are now sick. That’s a very important trial. Speaker 18: (01:35:44)[crosstalk 01:35:44] experimented with around the world. So my question was really like, are there [crosstalk 01:35:48]. Donald Trump: (01:35:47)We’re watching whatever happens around the world. We’re watching those trials very closely. [crosstalk 01:35:53] Mitch? Speaker 17: (01:35:56)Mitch McConnell, yeah. He said that impeachment diverted the attention of the government. Do you think that in any way, this was happening in Italy at the same time. Did it divert your attention or your team’s attention or the Vice President’s attention? Donald Trump: (01:36:07)Well, I don’t like to think I did. I think I handled it very well, but I guess it probably did. I mean, I got impeached. I think I certainly devoted a little time to thinking about it. Right? But think of it. It was a hoax. It was a total hoax. And when you think that I got impeached only because they had a majority in the House. They didn’t get one Republican vote. 196 to nothing. Not one Republican. I don’t think it’s ever happened. The Republicans stuck together, and they stuck together in the Senate. 52 to a half. A half. So when you say that, yeah, I think it took a lot of, I see them going and saying about speed. Well, they probably illegally impeached me in the sense that if you look at the FBI today with what happened, the horrible things, nobody cares about that now, because all they’re thinking about is the virus. And that’s okay with me. Donald Trump: (01:37:01)But you look at the report that came out from IG Horowitz, it’s disgraceful what went on. It’s disgraceful. It’s a total disgrace. They got caught in the act, but you know what? We won’t talk about that now. Did it divert my attention? I think I’m getting A pluses for the way I handled myself during a phony impeachment. Okay? It was a hoax. But certainly, I guess I thought of it. And I think I probably acted. I don’t think I would have done any better had I not been impeached. Okay? And I think that’s a great tribute to something. Maybe it’s a tribute to me. But I don’t think I would have acted any differently, or I don’t think I would have acted any faster. Donald Trump: (01:37:46)But the Democrats, their whole life, their whole being, their whole existence was to try and get me out of office any way they can. Even if it was a phony deal. And it was a phony deal. And it turned out, and all you have to do is look today at the FBI reports. Take a look at what the FBI did. Take a look at the people. Take a look at Comey’s report. Seven and eight pages of total kill. Take a look at that. Take a look at the reporter, McCabe. Just read it. And you’ll see how horrible it was. And you know what? I don’t think this country is going to take it. You want to know the truth. [crosstalk 01:38:26] Jim: (01:38:27)What guidance are you offering to Florida when it comes to the two Holland American cruise ships that are seeking to dock here? Donald Trump: (01:38:36)Yeah, well, I’ll be speaking. I’m going to be speaking. In fact, he has a call in to me. We’ll be speaking to the governor, and we’ll be speaking to him soon. But there’s a case. We have two ships. There are people that are sick on the ship, and we don’t want to be like they’re going to be ghost ships. You know, people turn those ships away. There was a ship, as you know, in a certain part of Asia and from port to port, nobody would take it. But in the meantime, you have people that are dying on the ship or at least very sick, but they’re dying on the ship. So I’m going to do what’s right, not only for us but for humanity. I mean, these are two big ships, and they have a lot of very sick people. I’ll be speaking to the governor. Let’s do just a couple more back here. [crosstalk 01:39:25] Go ahead, please. Speaker 21: (01:39:25)Mr. President. Thank you very much. I was hoping you could- Donald Trump: (01:39:31)Do you ever run out of questions, you people? It’s the most unbelievable thing. You go through the room with me. But I have nothing else to do. So if you want us. I mean, if you want. Should we keep it going, John? I think so. Let’s go. Speaker 21: (01:39:43)Could you clarify something for me, please? Andrew Cuomo today said that the system that you have where governors are trying to get ventilators, it’s like being on eBay with 50 other states bidding on a ventilator, plus FEMA. And then you just said tonight they shouldn’t be doing that. Donald Trump: (01:39:56)You mean he was complaining? Say it. What did he say exactly? What did he say? Speaker 21: (01:40:01)He said that when you have states competing for ventilators and medical care, it’s like getting on eBay with 50 other states bidding on a ventilator, plus FEMA. Donald Trump: (01:40:09)Well, he shouldn’t be complaining because we gave him a lot of ventilators. And if you take a look at the chart, it’s down. But I wish he got going a little bit sooner. But we gave him a lot of ventilators, and you know what? He has a lot of ventilators. The problem is with some people, no matter what you give, it’s never enough. It’s never enough. Like they’ll say, ” How’s Trump doing?” And you’re a Democrat. Some of them said, “Really good.” I’ll tell you, Gavin Newsom from California, who’s doing a good job by the way, and others said, “Really good.” But generally your natural reflex. “How’s Trump doing?” You ask that question to a Democrat. “Well, we don’t like it.” Oh really? You don’t like it? We’re getting very high marks, but I’m not doing this for marks. I’m doing this to save lives. When John acted, wait. When John saw the numbers and when Jim saw those numbers, they’re shocking numbers. You know, you’re talking about deaths. Donald Trump: (01:41:04)Even at the low end, you were shocked. When you see 100 and 120000 and 200000 people over potentially a very short period of time, I want to save lives. I’m not doing this for any other reason. I want to save lives. But the governor of New York’s gotten, I think maybe, probably, has more than anybody has gotten. Four hospitals. He’s gotten four medical tents. He’s gotten a ship the likes of which nobody’s ever seen before other, than Los Angeles, which has the twin. I mean, we’ve done a lot, but many ventilators were sent to New York. Donald Trump: (01:41:40)And Mayor de Blasio. I’m getting along with Mayor de Blasio great. And I think he’s very happy with the job we’re doing, too. We’re sending a lot of, actually Mayor de Blasio had an interesting request. He wanted people. And we’re sending medical people. A lot of people, a lot of the states, aren’t having a problem with ventilators. They’re having a problem getting medical people, and we’re sending a lot of people in. Military- Donald Trump: (01:42:02)… And we’re sending a lot of people in, military, very talented people. Who [crosstalk 01:42:07]? Go ahead and then I’ll do you second. Speaker 22: (01:42:10)Your response to that question earlier was that they shouldn’t be doing that. If they need something … If they need them, that bad- Donald Trump: (01:42:18)They shouldn’t be doing what? Speaker 22: (01:42:20)The governors shouldn’t be competing with each other- Donald Trump: (01:42:22)They shouldn’t be competing and they should call us. Wait, no, I don’t want them to compete because all they’re going to do is drive up the price. I don’t want them to compete. They should be calling us and we can work it so they get the ventilators and they get shipped directly. If they’re competing, if they’re calling, even if there’s only two of them calling, they’re going to just drive up the price. Because as nice as some of the people that do ventilators, they do want to make money. Okay? Now, you don’t get a chance to buy 16,000 ventilators, I guess they didn’t take that option. That was in 2016, and that’s a hard option to take because it’s a lot of money and who would ever think you need 16,000 ventilators? Who would ever think it? But this a very unique time in life. And I think I’m dealing with New York and we’re having a very good relationship and you see what just happened in Central Park with the tents. I mean, we’re having a really good relationship. Go ahead. You didn’t get. Speaker 23: (01:43:11)Thank you. You mentioned Gavin Newson and the job that he’s doing. Donald Trump: (01:43:16)Yes. Speaker 23: (01:43:17)I’m interested in what you think California has done is to contribute to the suppression of the- Donald Trump: (01:43:22)They’ve done a good job, California. Now let’s see what happens. Because we could have a spike doctors. I mean, you don’t know. They could have a spike where all of a sudden it spikes upward. We had a couple of like a Louisiana, I think they’re doing a really good job, but they had nothing. Now they had Mardi Gras and then all of a sudden after Mardi Gras, which tells you about distancing, I guess. I mean, it’s an example of what could happen, but they were like flawless. I was always surprised. I was looking at Louisiana and I understand that state. I love that state, and I’m saying they’re in great shape. Then they have Monte Gras was a big success, tremendous success, and then all of a sudden it went like a rocket ship. So that tells you about distancing. Please. Speaker 23: (01:44:01)Are you concerned though about the homeless population in California? Because I know California officials think that it’ll spread like wildfire. Obviously- Donald Trump: (01:44:08)Say it again, a little louder. Speaker 23: (01:44:10)There’s a homelessness crisis in California. Donald Trump: (01:44:12)Yeah, there is. Speaker 23: (01:44:12)They’re obviously concerned that it could spread like wildfire in that community. Is there anything the administration- Donald Trump: (01:44:17)Well, they’re looking at that very strongly and I know that it’s bothers Gavin. I don’t know if it bothers Nancy Pelosi, but she’s got it in her district at a very high level. They have to be very careful. They have a very big homeless population in an area which just a few years ago didn’t have anybody in those areas, and they’re living in the streets and they’re … I know that some people in California are working on that very hard. Speaker 24: (01:44:41)Mr. President, you’ve spoke several times with Prime Minister Trudeau and President Macron, and at the end of the last week President Macron talked about an important initiative that you and him would launch. Any news on that? Donald Trump: (01:44:53)We’re talking about something that will be very positive for the world if we do it, we’ll see if we do it or not. Well, I don’t want to talk … It’s a private thing, but it will become public if we decide to do it, but positive. Our relationship with the president, our relationship with France is I think extraordinary. Very good. Probably as good as it’s ever been. Jim: (01:45:14)Going back to your comments about what could have happened and the actions that you took, is there any fairness to the criticism that you may have lulled Americans into a false sense of security when you were saying things like, “It’s going to go away.” Donald Trump: (01:45:28)Well, it is. Jim: (01:45:28)And that sort of thing. Donald Trump: (01:45:30)It’s going to go away. Hopefully at the end of the month and if not it hopefully will be soon after that. Jim: (01:45:35)But hasn’t your thinking on this evolved? Donald Trump: (01:45:39)It is going away. Jim: (01:45:39)Hasn’t your thinking on this evolved? You’re taking it more seriously? Donald Trump: (01:45:43)I think from the beginning, my attitude was that we have to give this country … I knew how bad it was. All you have to do is look at what was going on in China. It was devastation. Well, yeah, look at the numbers from China, those initial numbers coming out from China. But I read an article today which was very interesting. They say, “We wish president Trump would give more bad news.” Give bad news. I’m not about bad news. I want to give people hope. I want to give people a feeling that we all have a chance. I mean, when you saw the numbers and when John and all of you saw those numbers and you were saying 120,000 people, you mean that’s good? 100,000 dead people within a short period of time. I want to give people a feeling of hope. I could be very negative. I could say, “Wait a minute. Those numbers are terrible. This is going to be horrible.” This is a horrible thing. Hey Jim- Jim: (01:46:44)[crosstalk 01:46:44] last month and said, “Okay lets go to the beach. Let’s go to the airport, let’s go down to Mardi Gras.” Donald Trump: (01:46:49)Well, there were a lot of people that could have said that, we didn’t say that. Fortunately I didn’t say that and that was an alternative. We talked about it. That was always an alternative. That’s what I said, “Let it rip, let it ride, do nothing.” And we could have had 2.2 million dead people more than that because I didn’t do that. And we did catch it early and we stopped China really early and we stopped Europe really early because I saw what was happening … What happened is I stopped Italy because Italy was really heavily infected. We started off with certain parts of Italy, then all of Italy. Then we stopped Spain, then I said stop Europe, let’s stop Europe. We have to stop them from coming here. Europe, I love Europe, but they were having problems. I don’t think anybody did a better job than that. Especially when you see the 2.2 million number, and I hope we’re going to be substantially under the numbers that you’re looking at on the minimum side. Then I think we will have, hey look, it’s still tremendous death- Jim: (01:47:48)You weren’t just hoping that it would dissipate, that this would disappear? Donald Trump: (01:47:52)I want to be positive. I don’t want to be negative. I have to … I’m a positive person. Somebody said, “Oh, I wish you’d be more negative.” They literally have that. It’s in one of the wonderful newspapers today. I wish you’d be more negative. Well, this is really easy to be negative about, but I want to give people hope too. I’m a cheerleader for the country. We’re going through the worst thing that the country’s probably ever seen. Look, we had The Civil War, we lost 600,000 people. Right? Here’s the thing, had we not done anything, we would have lost many times that, but we did something and so it’s going to be hopefully way under that, but we lose more here potentially than you lose in world wars as a country. So there’s nothing positive, there’s nothing great about it, but I want to give people in this country hope. I think it’s very important. Jim: (01:48:44)Did you know it was going to be this severe when you were saying this was under control and- Donald Trump: (01:48:47)I knew everything. I knew it could be horrible and I knew it could be maybe good. Don’t forget, at that time people didn’t know that much about it. Even the experts, we were talking about it. We didn’t know where it was going. We saw China, but that was it. Maybe it would have stopped at China. We wished we could have killed it in China, but it didn’t happen. It started spreading to Europe. It started spreading here. It started spreading all over, but … And I’m not blaming anybody, I’m just saying that we have an incredible thing. I think the people, our professionals, our military, our governors, our politicians, I think they’ve done an incredible job. With few exceptions, I think they’ve done an incredible job. Donald Trump: (01:49:27)But I don’t want to be a negative person. It’d be so much easier for me to come up and say, “We have bad news. We’re going to lose 220,000 people and it’s going to happen over the next few weeks.” And with that, I did start off by saying today, long before this question, I said, “This is going to be a rough two or three weeks.” This is going to be one of the roughest two or three weeks we’ve ever had in our country. We’re going to lose thousands of people. Donald Trump: (01:49:50)When I see 28, 29 people from the governor of New Jersey, 29 people, when you see 173 people died in New York yesterday or whatever the number was, I think it was more than that. When you see the kind of numbers that we’re witnessing, we’ve never seen numbers like that. So it’s easy to be negative and then everybody could be negative. But I’m a cheerleader for our country, and I want to do a great job so the number can be kept … And I’ve always said it. I want as few a number of people to die as possible and that’s all we’re working on. Jim: (01:50:27)You don’t like the question, but are you now taking the- Donald Trump: (01:50:31)I don’t mind the question. I think it’s actually … I think it’s … It’s not meant to be. Look, I know you well enough, so it’s not meant to be a fair question, but it is a fair question. I think we’ve done a fantastic job. Okay, fine. I’ll, I’ll accept your word. Look, Jim. I think we’ve done a great job. We’re going to see how it comes out, but when you look at minimal numbers of 120,000 people, when you look at, it could have been 2.2 Million people died and more if we did nothing. Donald Trump: (01:50:58)If we just did nothing, would’ve gone up and would it come down as per your statement, it would have been confined. It would have been a similar time, maybe even less time. It would have been violence like we’ve never seen in this country before. We had great professionals, great military, really great governors and politicians. I cannot say enough about what’s going on. And as per what you said, I think we’re way ahead of schedule in terms of numbers, I think, I hope. But if we can keep it under the minimum numbers, the country has … Not me, the country has done a great job, but I think I’ve done a really good job of mobilizing. I think Mike Pence has been fantastic. I put him in charge of the task force. We have wonderful people on the task force, Jim, wonderful people. This man was working, literally, he had days where he didn’t go to bed, he didn’t go to sleep. He called … He went 24 hours and then started the next day. Donald Trump: (01:51:55)People don’t know the job he did. I didn’t even know he was that good of a manager to be honest with you, Mike. Okay? And you never know that about somebody until they’re tested under fire. But he saw it very early also. We both did. They saw it very early. They knew pretty soon. They probably knew sooner than anybody because that’s what they study. That’s what they do. Must be a depressing business, right? Let’s do a little bit depressing, but they’ve seen it all. Go ahead John. John: (01:52:21)Can I ask Dr. Fauci a question about a headline that’s been running all day to get his perspective on it? There is a professor from MIT, Dr. Fauci, who suggests that coronavirus can be carried on droplets a distance of 27 feet. Do you buy into that and if that might be the case, does that suggest the current social distancing guidelines may need to be extended? Dr. Fauci: (01:52:41)This could really be terribly misleading, John. What it was was looking at the distance that droplets by speaking, by coughing or sneezing. So if you go way back and go, “Achoo.” And go like that, you might get 27 feet. So when you see somebody do that get out of the way. But that’s not not- John: (01:53:02)I know people that do that. Dr. Fauci: (01:53:05)That is not practical, John. I’m sorry, but I was disturbed by that report because that’s misleading. That means that all of a sudden the six foot thing doesn’t work. That is a very, very robust vigorous achoo sneeze. That’s what that is. And that’s not what we’re talking about. Donald Trump: (01:53:23)Do you want to keep going? Go ahead, over there. Speaker 25: (01:53:28)I’ve got a follow up on the mask, sir. But first you mentioned Franklin Graham, talking to him. Donald Trump: (01:53:33)Yes. Speaker 25: (01:53:33)As you know, his father, Billy Graham, was a trusted spiritual advisor and friend of many presidents, a lot of your predecessors in times of national emergency reached out to pastors and other spiritual counselors. Have you done that during this national- Donald Trump: (01:53:46)I never say that, but Franklin Graham is somebody that’s very special. I have many very special people and a very many special in the evangelical, evangelical Christian community. You could talk rabbis, you can talk a lot of … I have tremendous support from religious leaders and Franklin Graham, I just spoke to him today for an extended period of time. I told him what a fantastic job you’re doing, and he does this. He loves doing it. He loves helping people, and he loves Jesus. Then I can tell you. He loves Jesus. He’s a great gentleman. Go ahead. Speaker 25: (01:54:20)On the masks, sir. On the masks maybe for the doctors. Donald Trump: (01:54:22)On what? Speaker 25: (01:54:23)On the masks. Is the reason why there’s no CDC recommendation for the public to wear masks because they’re meant to to save and preserve the mask for the medical workers or is it because the virus is not primarily transmitted through the air? Dr. Birx: (01:54:36)So there was a … The CDC does have recommendations on their website about masks that came to the task force several weeks ago about if you’re infected, wearing a mask to protect others. And if you can’t, you’re working with someone who’s sick and you have to be that worker in the household, because remember we want people in the household being taken care of, that they should wear a mask. I know your question is broader than that and it’s just being considered by the task force now about whether that recommendation that already exists relevant to wearing masks should be altered in any way. So it’s still under discussion. Donald Trump: (01:55:17)And just about masks. You can get a mask, but you can also do … I mean most people have scarves and scarves are very good and they can use a scarf and where are we talking about a limited period of time. And it says in the recommendations you can use … You can substitute a scarf for a mask. So if people feel that … And I think some people disagree with the mask for various reasons and some people don’t. But you can wear a scarf, you can do the masks if it makes you feel better. We have no objection to it and some people recommend it. Let’s go. Speaker 26: (01:55:52)Thank you Mr. President. Donald Trump: (01:55:54)You people never get tired. Thank you. There’s still good questions. Speaker 26: (01:55:59)Mr. President, again, I’m looking at the cases around the world in Latin America and the Middle East, and still you don’t want to impose a travel ban for these areas. In Brazil, for instance, the President Bolsanar, he keeps on being very active with groups. Aren’t you afraid that what we’re doing here can be threatening- Donald Trump: (01:56:20)You mean you people? You mean you people? Speaker 26: (01:56:21)Not here, but in the United States. Donald Trump: (01:56:23)I mean, you’re pretty spread out already. I don’t have anymore … I don’t think we’ll have press conferences anymore, but- Speaker 26: (01:56:28)I understand- Donald Trump: (01:56:29)Look, we’re very careful. I’m very careful personally, and- Speaker 26: (01:56:33)But the travel ban, I mean, aren’t you- Donald Trump: (01:56:35)We are looking at numerous countries as they get in a position. Brazil as an example, you mentioned the president. Brazil had no problem until just a short time ago and now they’re starting to get inflamed and yes, we are absolutely looking at a ban. There are two other countries you mentioned, Iran already has a band. They had sort of an automatic ban. In addition to that, they have a band. So we’re looking at certain countries as they become hot. Speaker 23: (01:57:06)So you’re starting a new 30 days now. What are your plans? Are you going to stay in the White House? Are you going to travel at all, or are you going to shelter-in-place? Donald Trump: (01:57:12)I wanted to go to the opening of the hospital in New York, and my people couldn’t even believe it that I said it, but I did. I wanted to go. They didn’t want me to do it. The Secret Service didn’t want me to do it for reasons I wanted to go to the boat sailing into New York Harbor. But the governor did a good job of that, and the mayor of New York. So I love to go out but not be in the white house and it’s sort of like nerve center, control center and I think it’s important. Look, you see what happened with Boris Johnson, you see what happened with others. I think it’s important that I remain healthy. I really do. So for the most part we’re staying here. I’ve canceled many different events and we’ll be staying here, for the most part. John: (01:58:03)Mr. President, Tom Frieden, the former director of the CDC wrote an article the other day in which she said what’s what’s really needed here [inaudible 01:58:13] the task force is doing is an incident commander, to take command of where everything is going and how things are coordinated. Do you have something that could be useful in this particular instance? Donald Trump: (01:58:26)We have it. Mike Pence: (01:58:27)His name is Pete Gaynor. He’s the administrator of FEMA, and when the president signed the national emergency declaration, he stood up the National Response Center at FEMA and now I can tell you that when the White House coronavirus task force meets, I’m at one end of the table and Pete Gaynor and the whole FEMA team are by video conference at the other end of the table, and that’s where whether it be the Airbridge that’s literally bringing in millions of medical supplies from around the world, the thoughtful deployment of those supplies to hospitals, particularly with regard to ventilators. We’re working very closely. HHS is fully integrated at FEMA now, but because of the president’s decision to stand up FEMA in the lead, we have a coronavirus task force at the White House that’s bringing the president the very best health experts and recommendations from every agency, all the implementation as we tell governors, literally every day is happening through FEMA. It’s going down to the States through FEMA and state requests are coming up through regional administrators for FEMA and back to the White House. Speaker 23: (01:59:42)At the same time, we have 4,000 ventilators that are parked in a warehouse in New Jersey. Mike Pence: (01:59:47)Not for long. Speaker 23: (01:59:47)No, no, no, no, but that the case, we also have- Mike Pence: (01:59:51)We moved them out. They had them a long time ago, but they didn’t need them. Speaker 23: (01:59:56)But the question, the question is this happened. We also have people not knowing about the new Abbott testing facility or testing system. If there were an incident commander who was in charge of all of that and getting the word out, would that be useful? Mike Pence: (02:00:12)Nobody knew about Abbott. It was just brought to life two weeks ago. They just came up with it. Speaker 23: (02:00:17)That’s right. Mike Pence: (02:00:18)It was an invention … So nobody knew about it. Nobody knew you could even do it. They did an incredible job. Their scientists came up with the idea of a week and a half ago. I showed it to you yesterday in the box. I don’t think you could do much better than that. Mike Pence: (02:00:31)If I may, Mr. President. I think your point’s well taken. The Abbott Laboratories point of contact test was approved Friday. President announced it in the Rose garden on Sunday. We’re socializing that all across the country, to every governor to laboratories elsewhere. And I have to tell you, this team that the president has assembled, the advisors on the White House coronavirus task force and then this team at FEMA, whether it be HHS deputy secretary Bob Kadelac, who’s coordinating all supplies, whether it be Admiral Zua are who is a literally working with every state on a county by county basis to deploy testing is impressive. Mike Pence: (02:01:16)I think it’s given great encouragement to governors, president and I spoke to governors in all the states and territories again yesterday because governors, I can tell you from my own experience as a governor. In Indiana, we had tornadoes and flooding, governors know how to deal with FEMA. And as soon as the president stood up FEMA, declared that national emergency, what I’ll call a certain amount of muscle memory kicked in in states around the country. And we’re really seeing a tremendous efficiency and communication, and that’s how we’re going to go forward. Again, the president’s vision here is FEMA’s vision, which is in response to a health crisis, it’s locally executed, state managed, federally supported. And I have to tell you, we’re seeing that whole process spinning up every day and I hope Americans looking on are encouraged by that system and I know they’re hearing from governors around the country about the flow of resources and testing and supplies and we’ll continue to keep that, what you call an incident command what, what we call the federal emergency management agency working 24/7 Donald Trump: (02:02:27)And I have to say this, I’ve had, in the last less than a week, three governors call up that truly have disliked me over the years. Even before I decided to run for president and they said, “I have to tell you, you’ve done a great job. You and your team have done a great job.” These are three governors respected, very respected in two cases and they said, “Like or not like, you and your team have done an incredible job.” And I think they have, I think they’ve done an incredible job. Go ahead, please. Speaker 27: (02:03:02)Mr. President, thanks so much. My first question is on modeling. Was there any kind of health modeling based on whether or not there would be a national lockdown or if some sort of guidance to every single state that they needed to to have lockdowns? Dr. Birx: (02:03:17)So all of the modelers who presented did … I mean, I just want to thank them again because they assembled from around the globe very quickly, about two or three weeks ago to before we announced the first 15 days to show all the implications of closing the schools, having people stay in their homes. And that’s how it was modeled. Stay in your homes, social distancing of six feet. So no one actually termed it a lockdown as far as I remember. It was more about staying in your home. And I think the difference was … And these weren’t in the models and I think when you talk about could we have known something different. I think all of us, I mean I was overseas when this happened in Africa and I think when you look at the China data originally and you said, “Oh, well there’s 80 million people or 20 million people in Wuhan and 80 million people in Hebei and they come up with a number of 50,000 you start thinking of this more like SARS than you do this kind of global pandemic. Dr. Birx: (02:04:29)I mean, I’ll just be frank, that’s when I looked at it I was like, “Oh, well this is not as close as those quarters are.” So I think the medical community made … Interpreted the Chinese data as that this was serious but smaller than anyone expected because I think probably we were missing a significant amount of the data now that when we see what happened to Italy and we hate to see what happened to Spain. And so what was modeled is not a lockdown. Two countries did remove people from homes that were positive and put them in separate spaces. That also wasn’t modeled, but it could be modeled. And so we could go back and ask the modelers about lockdown versus not locked down. But what they modeled was people staying at home Speaker 27: (02:05:23)I guess what I was asking is for best case scenario, since it says best case scenarios, 100,000 people, I know you’re trying to get that number even lower, but is best case scenario every state basically having lockdown behavior, not maybe actual lockdowns, but basically everyone’s staying in their homes. And if that’s true, why not tell every state to do that? Dr. Birx: (02:05:44)It’s everybody social distancing by six feet when they’re outside. And that is probably absolutely the key more than anything else is if you’re never more than … If you’re never within six feet of any single individual, then you’ve controlled the virus. There are different methods to get you to that point. And I think what I’ve heard from our president and our vice president is they trust the American people to understand that they can be outside, take walks, be six feet away from anyone else and be in their homes, and we trust them to do that without having to lockdown. Speaker 27: (02:06:26)And then Mr. President, a question on ventilators. Donald Trump: (02:06:29)I just want to add, I think the one thing nobody really knew about this virus was how contagious it was. It’s so incredibly contagious, and nobody knew that. This is like a … I don’t know that anybody’s ever seen anything like this. Normally you’d have to get close and touch and this. A lot of things have to happen. This is just like … It’s truly invisible and so contagious and I don’t think any doctor knew it at the time. I don’t think anybody could have known it. People have not seen anything like this. Speaker 27: (02:07:00)A question about ventilators. You talked about the fact that you don’t want to see States bidding against each other. The governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, said that there should be a federal system where the federal government sets the price, the federal government distributes the ventilators. Why not have that kind of system? Why have this- Donald Trump: (02:07:17)Essentially we do. We’ve distributed thousands of ventilators and we have now thousands of ventilators and we’re buying them at a good price and we’re actually making them by the thousands. We’re making them. You saw yesterday where Ford is going to have a tremendous number, they’re looking to make 100,000 ventilators. Ford has been great. General Electric healthcare has been great. General Motors has come a long way. I have to be honest. They are working very hard. We’re making thousands and thousands of ventilators. At the end of this, and there will be, don’t say I’m optimistic, because I don’t want to … I wouldn’t want to do that, but I am optimistic. I’m a very optimistic person. Let me tell you, we will have thousands of ventilators, and what I want to do is make sure that we always have plenty for the future, but then we want to help Italy and France and other countries that you don’t even know about yet with all of the problems they have, because ventilators are very tough to come by. They’re very hard to make, they’re very complicated, they’re very expensive. Yeah, please. Speaker 27: (02:08:16)Is Governor Cuomo mistaken then? Donald Trump: (02:08:17)You can go ahead. Go ahead. Speaker 27: (02:08:19)Is Governor Cuomo mistaken when he’s saying- Donald Trump: (02:08:21)I can’t take your interpretation of what he said, I don’t know what he said. I think he’s been reasonably generous considering he’s a Democrat and I think he’d like to run for president. So I think he’s been pretty generous under those circumstances, but he’s been very generous to me. Look, I got them ships, I got them hospitals, I got them a lot of things that he never thought …. He hit pay dirt, okay? And I’ve been very generous on ventilators. If you look, they had 2,000 and 4,000 they had thousands of ventilators in his warehouse, in their warehouse waiting to be picked up. They never picked them up. So I’d have to hear it from him face to face. And how about one more and we’ll see you tomorrow. Is that okay? Don’t say got to cut it short- John: (02:09:07)[inaudible 02:09:08]. Donald Trump: (02:09:09)That’s right, it could be [inaudible 02:09:10] tomorrow, but you know what? In the meantime, I’m sure people are enjoying it. Now, I will say this, it’s an incredibly dark topic and incredibly horrible topic and it’s incredibly interesting. That’s why everybody is … They’re going crazy. They can’t get enough of it and they want to be careful and I guess they’re studying it for themselves. Just studying if they get it. A lot of people have it. A lot of people are positive and they hope for the best, because when this gets the wrong person, meaning a person that qualifies, generally speaking, under the list, it is ravaging. It is horrible. Go ahead. How about you, in the back? Speaker 28: (02:09:52)Thank you. Is there any data to suggest that you’re going to see a second wave at the point at which these stay at home orders, these lockdowns- Donald Trump: (02:10:03)If we do see a second wave, because I’ve heard Dr. Fauci answer this question. If we do we’re going to be, I think, very well-prepared, and the second wave won’t be like the first wave, and with that I better let him give you a little bit more to that answer because I don’t want to have him upset with me and say, “I wish you would have answered that question.” Come on doctor. Dr. Fauci: (02:10:24)So when you talk about second wave, I think you really are talking about two different things that are a little bit different. So for example, after the 30 days if we get the mitigation that we hope will get us to the suppression that Dr. Birx was talking about, there’s a danger if we don’t continue to maintain that, that we will have a resurgence right within the current outbreak. That’s sort of a second way, but it really is a exacerbation of the current wave. We hope that doesn’t happen and that’s why we’re really pushing and why I was so emphatic about making sure we abide by those mitigation strategies. The other aspect of a second wave is something that’s just the nature of a virus, that’s, as the president said, highly transmissible and is going to be circulating in other parts of the world as we’re going down, which I think we will, and I feel certain that we will. Then we have to worry about the next season, and as was just mentioned, that’s when you use the experience that you have, the interventions that you’ve developed, and hopefully a vaccine that you’ll be able to deploy as quickly as you possibly can. That’s that second wave that really is more seasonal than an exacerbation of something that you pull back on. Donald Trump: (02:11:44)A lot of very positive things are happening with the therapeutics and drugs of different kinds and the vaccines. I think a lot of very positive things are happening. Okay, one more. Please. Speaker 29: (02:11:56)So understand the worst case scenarios, there is a real scarcity problem. If you’ve given out, say, 7,000 ventilators and we’ve got 10,000 around, so I’m just curious, who signs off on those life and death decisions before GM Ford ramp up? Donald Trump: (02:12:09)I will say Mike Pence, myself, the head of FEMA, some of our generals that are working that are doing an unbeliever, we have generals that are working that are unbelievable talents, unbelievable leaders, and it’ll go through one of three or four people if it comes down to that. And I hope it doesn’t come down to that, because I think we’re very well-equipped, and it’s an honor to be here tonight. I appreciate it. I appreciate your interest. I think there is a great interest in it, and we’ll see you tomorrow. We’ll see you tomorrow. [crosstalk 02:12:42]. Transcribe Your Own Content Try Rev and save time transcribing, captioning, and subtitling. Copyright Disclaimer Under Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. 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mar donald trump coronavirus task force hold daily press conference today march trump warn painful week ahead united states virus spread white house predict die virus read transcript briefing transcribe content try rev free save time transcribe captioning transcribe caption speech interview meetings town hall phone call rev large trust fast accurate provider transcription service close captioning subtitle service world donald trump country midst great national trial unlike face probably well war deadly virus success fight require absolute measure collective strength love devotion important power choice action save american life rescue vulnerable know right citizen call sacrifice business ask fulfill patriotic duty community make fundamental change live work interact day surprised go long future virus go defeat donald trump thing good practice future include get flu devastating learn live future believe shake hand shake hand washing hand time stay little apart day ago publish nationwide guideline slow spread virus sunday announce campaign extend april moment dr birx explain datum form basis decision extend guideline dr fauci explain absolutely critical american people follow guideline day matter life death frankly matter life death donald trump know citizen rise occasion sacrifice lot great economy history country great economy world good unemployment number employment number far instant say choice close americans job like see proud great pride go right hear expert announcement donald trump treasury department small business administration announce detail paycheck protection program possible trillion relief bill sign law week nearly billion loan soon available lending partner help small business meet payroll expense month loan forgive long business pay worker include sole proprietor independent contractor application accept start friday april friday april begin donald trump today speak lead internet phone provider tremendous job keep internet line communication flow strongly increase strain business anybody see inside make call leader speak han vestberg verizon communications randall stephenson att mike sievert tmobile thomas rutledge charter communications brian roberts comcast john malone liberty medium dexter goie altice michel combe sprint aryeh bourkoff liontree pat esser cox communication jeffrey storey centurylink incredible job look continent look europe go different route different route talk little ago have tremendous problem donald trump country have problem continent have problem business level see internet hold incredibly expect continue matter happen matter gain gain know set record let update distribution urgency need resource supply lot number go let mike pence speak little give massive amount medical equipment supply state hold bit ventilator ready hold surge come come pretty strong want able immediately place go take donald trump ready distribute speak governor michigan great conversation send large number ventilator michigan send louisiana send additional ventilator new york additional ventilator new jersey new york fema supply ambulance emts help respond increase case load lot ambulance california army corps engineer develop facility expand hospital capacity bed great conversation night gavin newsom good job constant communication usns mercy hospital ship operational los angeles receive patient new york know comfort everybody watch place short receive large number patient thousand room operating room donald trump provide travel trailer assist housing need order hundred michigan fema soon deliver addition ventilator bed field hospital army corps engineer evaluate location build alternate care facility field hospital michigan bed double soon depend need good job bed michigan need fema army corps engineer prepared quickly louisiana deliver field hospital provide new hospital bed talk governor john bel edwards army corps engineer incredible work establish alternate care site new orleans convention center operational believe week donald trump bed alternate care site bed new hospital louisiana get hit start late look good sudden rear come addition supply deliver give hospital flexibility use new facility include surgical care center care hospital patient infect example know expectant mother understandably concerned expose newborn baby virus action yesterday hospital authority create special area mother deliver baby safe healthy environment totally separate donald trump past month state department organize large complex international evacuation operation american history mike pompeo work clock ambassador january successfully repatriate americans country literally stick case lock salute incredible public servant department state counterpart dhs hhs play important role probably read young people peru young people brazil absolutely stuck get everybody home parent wife husband donald trump want american prepare hard day lie ahead go tough week hopefully expert predict think lot predict having study hard go start see real light end tunnel go painful painful week look night kind death cause invisible enemy incredible watch night governor murphy new jersey people die today mean yesterday talk number far great know state know new jersey hit people hundred location hundred state go rough week period donald trump nation face difficult week approach important day go thing well sudden go like burst light think hope strength test endurance try america answer love courage ironclad resolve time americans come appreciate lot medium lot good thing say think good thing say look job speak franklin graham extraordinary person samaritan purse like amazing fast fast long time think people see franklin graham special family donald trump send plane load mask glove supply community battle plague plague send prayer pray doctor nurse paramedic truck driver police officer sanitation worker people fight life new york land watch doctor nurse certain hospital elmhurst morning know elmhurst queens grow right know hospital see life young life donald trump tell scene trailer trailer freezer believe speak friend believe see watch doctor nurse walk hospital morning like military people go battle go war bravery incredible hat hat wear hat rip hat fast people incredible brave go know lot thing fly air know touch safe donald trump friend go hospital day later sir unconscious coma thing happen see country say country come like see prevail win hopefully relatively short period time like ask dr birx come late datum think brilliantly right go ask dr fauci speak mike pence go recent event take place statistic think interesting thank dr birx mr president slide slide label goal community mitigation highlight begin middle end community community community american people go thing day difference think know large blue mountain want thank international domestic modeler harvard columbia northeastern imperial help tremendously model create ability mitigation steeply depress curve giant blue mountain stippled area dr birx estimate million million people united states succumb virus mitigation detailed study show social distancing happen people stay home happen people careful day wash hand worry touch face extraordinary thing american follow take stippled mountain low hill actually death way slide dr birx modeler university washington model case utilize experience globe understand information italy spain south korea china help insight hospital need ventilator need number people potentially succumb illness model look provide detail time course possible model assume mitigation dr birx inform morning night reality ground come new york new jersey united states model inform morning adjust date day model predict fatality mortality united states president say focused week stark reality virus move community slide slide give great hope understanding possible slide barely blue line current case california cumulative case california significant testing line connecticut orange line new jersey blue line new york yellow line washington remember washington state month ago start issue washington state bring community health provider strong mitigation method testing result washington state california continuation day change slide dr birx sure interested see state slide state district columbia think show stark reality difference new york new jersey state similar population urban area goal day ensure state maintain low level new case hope significant outbreak state metro area community come work ensure health care provider globe united states strengthen resolve continue mitigate community community dr birx community community know people state community dependent person united states thing follow presidential guideline t know lot ask day slide give lot hope case find italy begin turn corner new case enter fourth week mitigation show possible work community country change course pandemic graphic graphic state give hope possible continue day dr birx hope like warn detroit chicago start change massachusetts new orleans continue problem new case stabilize think show depth dedication american people healthcare provider strain put nurse doctor respiratory therapist pharmacist laboratory technician work stem tide relent sick people come door turn away need ventilation receive ventilation stressful know stressful follow guideline stressful difficult soldier line start end community magic bullet magic vaccine therapy behavior behavior translate change course viral pandemic day thank donald trump dr fauci dr birx mr president mr vice president dr birx say simply dynamic force oppose mention time briefing virus leave device dark curve dr birx show dynamic force try form mitigation revealing bit datum see happen italy turn curve happen stepwise fashion explain step convinced mitigation go trick dr fauci increase new case certain rate increase new case begin level secondary effect hospitalization effect intensive care effect death death intensive care hospitalization lag early indication new case day way see italy way likely see want jump gun see little inkling right new york dr fauci go get brace day week go continue thing discourage mitigation actually work work slide dr birx show see new york new jersey cluster area goal believe accomplish hotspot place new york new jersey help curve importantly prevent cluster area go spike prevent get spike dr fauci answer mitigation day mitigation clearly effect tough quantitate oppose force reason feel strongly necessity additional day time have effect foot accelerator brake press accelerator hope know day say day interview strong resilient nation look history terrible ordeal tough people suffer people die inconvenient societal standpoint economic standpoint go answer problem let pull sure look forward day intensity force donald trump mike pence mr president dr birx dr fauci know speak behalf president people country express great admiration appreciation help steer nation challenging time american people see president see decision end day slow spread ask american people day continue practice president coronavirus guideline america mike pence hear expert reason believe work dr fauci say difficult day ahead heart prayer family lose love one president reflect know struggle hour hospital nation discourage protect health health family ensure healthcare provider resource hospital capacity meet moment practice president coronavirus guideline america mike pence american day slow spread day difference life american people american family life nation allow brief update president take question foremost continue work closely governor nation president speak governor state territory yesterday president speak directly governor country include illinois louisiana michigan new york state mike pence present moment president declare major disaster declaration authorize different state use federal funding socalle title funding pay national guard afternoon fema report national guard activate state country provide support coronavirus response subject testing complete million test country work closely governor america assist drive community testing center speak governor jb pritzker illinois today testing center establish cooperation public health service mike pence remind governor laboratory hospital country imperative continue report daily cdc result test visibility datum well inform resource decision reiterate today governor person correspondence governor importance national guard need medical supply fema busy hear moment deliver literally million supply state country urge governor sure work state emergency management team maybe use national guard supply warehouse hospital mike pence present moment president say distribute million mask ventilator nation million face shield surgical mask glove initiate air bridge president announce yesterday flight arrive new york arrive illinois yesterday flight arrive ohio hour fema literally work contract world flight bring vital medical supply subject ventilator fema currently deliver ventilator michigan new jersey louisiana ventilator connecticut week week ahead ventilator illinois addition ventilator president fema direct state new york mike pence want people work line president speak dr birx dr fauci speak want know help way president direction go leave stone unturned america world sure resource equipment job want thank america thank step thank put practice day slow spread thank response ten million day slow spread encourage governor country spread word guideline mike penny state local authority area greatly impact continue urge people area new york new jersey connecticut refrain travel country people travel area check temperature self quarantine day chart unique challenge people great new york city area face coronavirus want protect health focus resource community prevent unnecessary spread lastly president highlight yesterday business mike pence spread lastly president highlight yesterday business america step tomorrow travel secretary sonny purdue gordonsville virginia walmart distribution center american people firsthand food supply continue roll wheel air freight america thank grocery store operator america everybody work highway byway day food supply roll roll strong mike pence american people want assure go continue work heart work heart sure healthcare provider need struggle coronavirus support healthcare need absolutely confident see way governor respond see team president assemble white house coronavirus task force confident prayer american people speaker clear project death toll people reasonably good follow mitigation measure donald trump reasonably good guess like maybe dr fauci deb come number number mind big question dr birx course projection projection base happen italy look model see slide real number think range believe hope day lot well assume american suppose think possible speaker week say week go painful bulk go happen week dr birx know slope mortality fatality disease increase come come slow rate go issue push mortality dr fauci hope far possibly modeling dr birx show predict number see accept number go go significantly want mixed message thing need anticipate mean go accept want well speaker doctor look curve go time death case long mean expect inaudible dr birx slide number generic sorry slide slide okay show generic picture happen epidemic mitigate mitigation mitigate base experience globe particular virus tail peak projection ihme datum peak week track mortality number fatality virus think blunt superb medical care client receive stringent people follow guideline speaker small character see death june dr birx june speaker june problem death june dr birx projection speaker projection course dr fauci mean get say stepwise thing death lag see death time epidemic death lag jim acosta dr fauci americans prepare likelihood americans die virus dr fauci answer yes sober number prepare go hope think push mitigation likelihood number realistic need prepare possibility jim acosta short period time happen dr fauci jim acosta country handle short period time couple month month dr fauci know difficult mean deny fact go difficult time right mean see happen new york tough extrapolate nation tough jim go prepare dr birx think model model ihme base heavily laden datum come new york new jersey connecticut know skew high peak significant mortality state able metro area able hold case number different picture predict datum heavily skewed new york new jersey dr fauci important slide dr birx show cluster city new york new jersey suppress kind spike number significantly low talk jim acosta city follow guideline dr fauci reason plea end remark jim time foot accelerator thing go stop peak donald trump city early stage number doctor say number maybe slightly hope dr birx slide slide yeah slide perfect yeah jim acosta tell city new york new jersey washington city take charge urge city mr president program donald trump new york believe blue new york new york have hard time city certain city actually look incredible job early firm incredible job new jersey new york dr birx mean remember california washington state early case jim acosta see place florida new york new jersey washington state donald trump think inaudible crosstalk yes speaker maybe direct question dr fauci tell yesterday accomplishment accomplish test day hear difficult story line responder praise appropriately little ago test people need test kind projection need test able receive donald trump anybody world far test highly accurate test test work know test send country break speaker donald trump day word exponential get new test see yesterday go roll think tomorrow day go minute literally minute result highly accurate result mean test give country chance wrong kind test highly accurate test new test come quick develop abbott labs yesterday anybody world far accurate test get lot information test crosstalk mike pence test president unveil yesterday abbott laboratories test minute test team work closely inaudible fema sure distribute country early week abbott laboratories actually go produce test day distribute america machine different location country tell thousand shelf try identify area pocket dr birx say want immediate testing call surveillance testing identify coronavirus case little incident mike pence amplify point look chart day reality speak lay person listen expert new york great new york city area unique challenge city believe exposure coronavirus early know challenge new york connecticut new jersey lean effort look chart state include washington state california evidence begin evidence day slow spread work fact american people put thing practice state country include new york new jersey face great magnitude case certain circumstance relate international travel community think jim acosta national shelter place crosstalk mike pence think american people suggest jim american people look number state day president coronavirus guideline work precisely president trump ask american continue guideline practice day crosstalk speaker right death united states suggest spike death week demographic breakdown area risk death occur dr birx right think ask chris murray information come new york new jersey apply potentially state have outcome want yellow line correct thousand resident normalize compare apple apple washington state yellow able long time measure case spike possible watch closely sure spike people washington state community washington state early week new york new jersey california week new york new jersey talk community decide mitigate start see number case know make big difference early dr fauci say wait late speaker demographic breakdown dr birx death occur dr birx demographic breakdown discuss relate mortality see new york exactly see italy low mortality young people young people get ill recover profile look identical italy increase mortality age preexist medical condition hold way hope work community come community community decide important experience new york new jersey think worried group globe mean know hear report morning ventilator uk translate united states like united states have ventilator time mean thing everybody have face think united states excellent position medical care position want test system want small epidemic small mortality speaker follow testing question real quick testing number understand million test big increase tell million test available end month outline supply chain logistic chain million test right mike pence think purpose clarification difference send test administer test month ago president bring commercial lab america say need partner create brand new system rapidly process test million test believe fair estimate test thousand americans day continue grow continue accelerate think misunderstanding early test distribute test kit send old system president describe antiquated system process state lab cdc private lab slow methodical system produce maybe test day mike pence new partnership commercial laboratory allow progress make breakthrough abbott laboratory move point care mean go device test people literally able doctor office hospital clinic nursing home result minute speaker million test talk test old antiquated system mike pence speaker million test completely move point care test mike pence answer yes new system dr birx today come laboratory develop test work vaccine go field actually combat epidemic disappointing right capacity avid test utilize state run utilize figure create awareness early platform like platform high speed roche people dependent availability test right half million test sitting capacity utilize try figure inform state work laboratory association aware raise awareness people know point care thermo fisher abbott testing roche dr birx add million test week donald trump report dr birx crosstalk work speaker reason dr birx people single platform send lab get acute way roche machine move lab abbott capacity different laboratory inaudible think actually admiral giroir figure create kind visual governor health commissioner capacity country mean state county county know test push lot test utilize donald trump people send mean use send doctor ahead dr fauci mean dr birx explain want john question logical question look number want know demography go number need anticipate necessarily accept inevitable get say influence vary degree influence maximum accept need anticipate want want well speaker model suggest low end mitigation donald trump say dr birx mitigation donald trump say dr fauci mitigation donald trump say lot people right lot people ask question happen question ask dr fauci dr birx long time work long time question happen group say let ride let ride happen number come million people million people die carry life think possible people die place normal life people see anybody die see people die airplane see people die hotel lobby see death donald trump think practical standpoint carry far high number maybe low million people speaker number mitigation push lower crosstalk dr birx long time dr fauci john obvious good question mitigation stand say want well model tell go time datum feed relook model model tell actually go know modeling colleague go happy model good assumption datum change say accord model good model deal mitigation datum week modify speaker model line low ball estimate talk think say change state dr birx know new york new jersies chicago detroit la dallas houston major city model like new york get trouble reassure look seattle line look la line look california able believe go happen outside case have metro like new york new jersey metro area speaker new york community spread pretty early undetected state information likely spike dr birx california washington state react early yes washington state early infection keep low steady month track small increase number case log rhythmic form virus piece try prevent piece try prevent new orleans detroit chicago boston right try sure city work like california new york metro area speaker president want thought face mask ask yesterday signal think donald trump end topic inaudible think speak dr birx dr fauci reason new york get late start happen late start new jersey get think governor excellent job get late start look washington state remember start confine nursing home odd people believe die home mean escape home different statistic state mean remember vividly nursing home washington state people die day people die exact location able relatively speak location speaker surprised see projection number sober donald trump sobering yeah people minimum number look people talk number substantially number great mitigation lot dedicated american people accord model low number fact see number ask ago say unlikely able attain think well think think well john say lot life take place relatively short period time think happen donald trump mean friend business people people great actually common sense say ride lot people say lot people think ride ride think flu flu vicious send friend hospital find happen go hospital say goodbye sort tough guy little old little heavy like frankly day coma flu see thing long lot people ask question think right donald trump ask mean lot people say let ride ride look potentially million people million people relatively short period time remember look concept concept guess know concept mind death lot death look uk remember look sudden go hard way start see thing good little bit problem boris test positive hope go fine uk look will catastrophic think happen donald trump everybody talk steve like forget ride expression ride minimum million people die short period time number like see donald trump look package approve trillion sudden reasonable right talk million life sudden reasonable lot people see advanced number advanced number know start know different kind virus know expert know go go italy go spain france have hard time country have hard time go start make projection hope go high projection base number let well hope yeah john speaker mask answer mask crosstalk speaker recommendation understand issue supply donald trump right crosstalk way know use scarf lot people scarf use scarf scarf good feeling people want certainly harm use scarf want go get mask make million million mask want hospital mean thing dr fauci tell today want compete want everybody compete hospital need use scarf use face mask bad idea period time mean eventually go want go go go gone hopefully go long time crosstalk speaker president mitigation step day plan needed discuss scene donald trump go find hope hope hope level let country want work want everybody want work ask doctor answer question discus time think speaker recommend harsh mitigation effort donald trump think harsh mean look street look avenue today camera anybody walk street watch street asphalt concrete look car look like taxi cab time morning normally lot people mean think mitigation strong speaker president confirm plan defer tariff payment day secondly interest donald trump tariff payment know talk tariff payment talk tariff payment china pay deal china deal pay billion pay speak president jinpe day mention great conversation way productive conversation have thing virus know talk speaker clarify donald trump speaker street journal donald trump speaker reporting wall street journal bloomberg plan motion donald trump know incorrect report go approve plan crosstalk thing tell approve present false reporting story go glad let know wrong let know yeah couple john speaker sir inaudible politic want ask individual state issue stay home think instance florida ron desantis resist urge issue say moment ago rest task force recommend weight heavily sort circumstance need place consider donald trump kind state great governor know exactly strong view speak ron mike want tell little bit mike pence let echo appreciation governor desantis leadership florida take decisive step early work closely team federal level let clear recommendation health expert day slow spread president extend day american say recognize deal health crisis country locally execute healthcare worker state manage continue flow information state governor continue hear datum analyze consult president direction white house coronavirus task force continue posture defer state local health authority measure deem appropriate day believe american state minimum slow spread donald trump obviously wrong go let governor good obviously wrong mean people thing decision think far wrong stop case donald trump far wrong stop case governor desantis thought good thought great job respect happen exercise think somebody obviously inaudible ahead turn speaker question minute vice president national strategic stockpile podium want ask president putin couple day ago know big economic concern lot people state oil price right wonder raise president putin able crosstalk donald trump probably oil price know russia saudi arabia go go go extent oil drop point look great tax cut give look way people go pay cent gallon gasoline incredible lot way go help airline time hurtful big industry oil industry feasible go speak president putin speak crown prince saudi arabia speaker agree crosstalk donald trump think yeah go go go want lose industry go lose industry job know know oil ocean right boat fill rent ship ship die store oil send sea sit long period time oil case probably valuable water part world water valuable donald trump see like country discuss join appropriate time need great talk president putin great talk crown prince discuss president putin case virus russia hit pretty hard discuss thing trade discuss lot thing case discuss oil oil price mean look cheap want negotiate see like think know good bid think probably want right donald trump john president tweet early today good time start look light end tunnel work infrastructure bill suggest trillion twice proposal release anticipate like economic crisis america need call shovel ready job ready people work donald trump problem maybe shovel ready job maybe purpose infrastructure far able find money spend infrastructure want use infrastructure reason suggest john pay zero interest united states pay zero interest rate federal reserve lower rate fed rate combination fact everybody want united states know dollar strong know sound good hard manufacture sell outside currency fall currency strong strong proportionately roof donald trump strong dollar people want invest united states especially nowadays look safety problem plus virus country want come united states zero interest rate essentially say great time borrow money zero interest rate build infrastructure like plan republicans plan seven democrats little trillion dollar republicans little bit donald trump suggest trillion redo road highway bridge fix tunnel bad shape like come new york know bad shape job infrastructure mean go green new deal will will approve go green new deal spend money thing people fun steve pay sir donald trump go borrow money zero percent interest interest payment zero borrow long term people want united states want invest united states ahead jim jim want virus say beginning press conference look hold ventilator need pick choose ventilator go nature pandemic crosstalk donald trump good question jim want ask dr fauci dr birx possible finish reason project death go people go able ventilator ventilator donald trump opposite hold hold go need couple week surge go chart hit able immediately go hard place need plus request ventilator hospital state city need opinion need will need inaudible flexibility take send different location today close able set march national guard fema set place donald trump second question go save life able inaudible know hot spot jim ventilator shortage right donald trump area great job ventilator have unbelievable company make ventilator start arrive week grab lot hospital say know good thing bad thing want able guess word flexibility surge turn strong louisiana immediately bring louisiana able able listen governor cuomo new york want ventilator away new york disaster great flexibility donald trump surge occur occur fairly evenly able distribute quickly need reserve right like have oil reserve valuable frankly reserve right able great team people ready deliver fast go certain state louisiana michigan detroit detroit have lot hard time right detroit come happen come donald trump ready jim depend happen stockpile call stockpile lot ventilator lot equipment send stockpile send directly hospital location place cumbersome nature have come unboxed deliver bring generally speak donald trump think mike tremendous success item include ventilator bring site need good supply ventilator ready ready truck ready ready say john hell bad week go bad maybe week go week like see john hospital prepare hear hospital donald trump think hospital john face look like medical war zone place donald trump go face war zone hear paramedic doctor say war zone see like look elmhurst hospital queen see mean look think hospital near grow war zone true sense yeah speaker ventilator hear governor fight essentially bid ventilator donald trump happen call look ventilator distribute ventilator need badly know pretty good idea go need people frankly think need need want mention name people want right thing people guess automatically hoard little bit want think need ventilator precious piece equipment right hard take long time complex like dashboard airplane mean complicated expensive machine simple ready depend happen donald trump hospital state think need ventilator think need need able quickly speaker confident john hydroxychloroquine booming datum trial donald trump hear mean question morning tell know new york right location patient people take good news day like seven day treatment good news hear bad word catastrophic event little bit soon talk total game changer john happen happen game changer include think case zpak know zpak go happen hydroxychloroquine crosstalk donald trump second steve steve antiviral drug promise work soon donald trump look lot look lot promise think maybe doctor want speak vaccine lot johnson johnson advanced advanced happen thing vaccine help group group need test vaccine thing drug mention right malaria drug arthritis drug long time powerful drug long time test sense know kill want discuss vaccine second dr fauci dr fauci mr president second vaccine answer question steve number candidate drug look way compassionate use clinical trial generally drug exist thing menu drug intervention go clinical trial approve mean example thing like immune serum convalescent plasma hyper immune globulin monoclonal antibodie variety thing right lot activity go scene design kind clinical trial answer need answer work want table lot thing dr fauci steve long normally week month dr fauci take month month mean reason see lot activity drug exist purpose drug want good randomize clinical trial good go month word vaccine exactly like say hope summer fact case phase phase trial early efficacy signal efficacy signal mean definitively prove vaccine work inflammation emergency able emergency youth authorization crosstalk donald trump sit hydroxychloroquine azithromycin maybe want infection think medical worker maybe get prescribe use word mean think bad idea doctor theory go country country people take work hospital work patient evidence go prove early rush stuff suppose long time approve prevail fda approve immediately basis market lot year use malaria arthritis malaria donald trump happen theory medical worker doctor work work long time ahead speaker want jim question national stockpile governor crosstalk donald trump speaker national strategic stockpile governor connecticut today say disturb learn stockpile word say donald trump let explain think say accurately certainly mean have bring stockpile appropriate certain thing like ventilator lot look country actually sound like lot try supply send directly state save big state want medical supply come warehouse place bring warehouse have bring ideally manufacturer directly hospital state go donald trump try way possible case have bring remember take virtually like ammunition military virtually ammunition little medical supply stockpile try hard deliver site need yeah ahead speaker president united states domestically practice social distancing sailor specifically uss theodore roosevelt able confine space thought offload sir concerned donald trump go let military decision speaker concerned military readiness pandemic instance happen report china increase patrol south china sea response donald trump go worry military see military hospital half day bed lot bed see like way javit center location louisiana new jersey place thing think indisputable watch army corps engineer fema work watch army corps engineer throw hospital complex mean incredible building essentially tent thing quick short period time donald trump military ready like see know good good guest different show watch show night think good guest see long time military people watch general semonite deal lot general get new hospital louisiana yes sir morning build morning day think good good guest guess tired guest fairness speaker kind message crosstalk donald trump ahead jim sir uncomfortable question model look like dr birx dr fauci show start social distancing guideline soon february january china south korea sort crosstalk donald trump go let answer yeah jim reliable term information get start practice soon model different right donald trump go let answer question remember everybody say know say well anybody dr fauci decision maybe big decision china heavily infect people come china united states wish wish disagree decision decision stop china come take lot heat china exactly happy trade deal big billion trade deal shortly say come country donald trump big decision early date talk big decision probably way probably big decision far look graph problem new york new york start late one start late new york complicated obvious reason get late start maybe want answer question dr birx know slide want explain thing think important lot question mortality mean okay confidence interval line confidence interval ability push large confidence interval line try gray tighter dotted line think important dr birx slide answer question antibody test tell sample hospital thing way define hiv epidemic united states able blood sample test find go need look virus significantly circulate early march late february look like metro area think dr fauci focused get serology testing figure come sample able jim understand painful question mean spot dr birx understand answer jim americans home say start soon americans die dr birx make assumption lot antibody test answer dr fauci underscore dr birx say virus background mitigate virus know answer question probably yes trouble come like sound bite get take context think important dr birxs say covert infection know mitigate difference virtually mitigate know answer question jim early start early watch south korea excuse china italy take action country spike dr fauci perfect world nice know go believe jim act early jim adequate testing know dr fauci donald trump know thing inherit inaudible mike pence speak president reference fact january suspend travel china shortly issue strong travel advisory section italy implicate section south korea reach agreement country screen passenger airport come united states america president initial effort design prevent coronavirus come united states expert tell coronavirus task force action buy significant time curve respond kind mitigation effort stand resource testing supply effect mike pence go prevention strategy president act month january mitigation strategy continue day american question resource important assure president task force preoccupy issue work governor hour hour meet need americans practice guideline day lower curve save life importantly limit burden hospital healthcare system country significantly mike pence mistake go work heart leave stone unturned find resource mask ventilator need go meet moment energy american economy american government american people role play preserve medical capacity way ensure people catch coronavirus particularly vulnerable outcome senior underlying health condition immunodeficiency resource support health care american family want love crosstalk donald trump believe early think smart stop china know close border read read know maybe right dr fauci say think maybe big moment stop source stop infection stop europe shortly big decision easy decision stop long time people start stop stop china stop europe stop europe ultimately stop uk ireland yes crosstalk speaker president inaudible go hydroxychloroquine clinical trial test america like stamp approval clinical trial take place world right donald trump speaker number case like dr fauci fda decision depend variety factor like clinical trial comparison comparable mean drug mean say time control trial compare meaningful occur speaker trial watch take place world right dr fauci number trial go united states part world right early determination want time definitive way answer randomize control clinical trial crosstalk speaker president mr president donald trump ahead talk chloroquine talk specifically question speaker donald trump trial go trial go try people sick important trial speaker experiment world question like crosstalk donald trump watch happen world watch trial closely crosstalk mitch speaker mcconnell yeah say impeachment divert attention government think way happen italy time divert attention team attention vice president attention donald trump like think think handle guess probably mean get impeach think certainly devote little time think right think hoax total hoax think get impeach majority house republican vote republican think happen republicans stick stick senate half half yeah think take lot go say speed probably illegally impeach sense look fbi today happen horrible thing care think virus okay donald trump look report come ig horowitz disgraceful go disgraceful total disgrace get catch act know will talk divert attention think get plus way handle phony impeachment okay hoax certainly guess think think probably act think well impeach okay think great tribute maybe tribute think act differently think act fast donald trump democrats life existence try office way phony deal phony deal turn look today fbi report look fbi look people look comey report seven page total kill look look reporter mccabe read horrible know think country go want know truth crosstalk jim guidance offer florida come holland american cruise ship seek dock donald trump speak go speak fact speak governor speak soon case ship people sick ship want like go ghost ship know people turn ship away ship know certain asia port port meantime people die ship sick die ship go right humanity mean big ship lot sick people speak governor let couple crosstalk ahead speaker president thank hope donald trump run question people unbelievable thing room want mean want go john think let speaker clarify andrew cuomo today say system governor try ventilator like ebay state bid ventilator plus fema say tonight donald trump mean complain exactly speaker say state compete ventilator medical care like get ebay state bid ventilator plus fema donald trump complain give lot ventilator look chart wish get go little bit soon give lot ventilator know lot ventilator problem people matter like trump democrat say good tell gavin newsom california good job way say good generally natural reflex trump ask question democrat like oh like get high mark mark save life john act wait john see number jim see number shocking number know talk death donald trump low end shock people potentially short period time want save life reason want save life governor new york get think maybe probably anybody get hospital get medical tent get ship like see los angeles twin mean lot ventilator send new york donald trump mayor de blasio get mayor de blasio great think happy job send lot actually mayor de blasio interesting request want people send medical people lot people lot state have problem ventilator have problem get medical people send lot people military donald trump send lot people military talented people crosstalk ahead second speaker response question early need need bad donald trump speaker governor compete donald trump compete wait want compete go drive price want compete call work ventilator ship directly compete call call go drive price nice people ventilator want money okay chance buy ventilator guess option hard option lot money think need ventilator think unique time life think deal new york have good relationship happen central park tent mean have good relationship ahead speaker mention gavin newson job donald trump speaker interested think california contribute suppression donald trump good job california let happen spike doctor mean know spike sudden spike upward couple like louisiana think good job mardi gras sudden mardi gras tell distance guess mean example happen like flawless surprised look louisiana understand state love state say great shape monte gra big success tremendous success sudden go like rocket ship tell distance speaker concern homeless population california know california official think spread like wildfire obviously donald trump little loud speaker homelessness crisis california donald trump speaker obviously concerned spread like wildfire community administration donald trump look strongly know bother gavin know bother nancy pelosi get district high level careful big homeless population area year ago anybody area live street know people california work hard speaker president speak time prime minister trudeau president macron end week president macron talk important initiative launch news donald trump talk positive world want talk private thing public decide positive relationship president relationship france think extraordinary good probably good jim comment happen action take fairness criticism lull americans false sense security say thing like go away donald trump jim sort thing donald trump go away hopefully end month hopefully soon jim thinking evolve donald trump go away jim thinking evolve take seriously donald trump think beginning attitude country know bad look go china devastation yeah look number china initial number come china read article today interesting wish president trump bad news bad news bad news want people hope want people feeling chance mean see number john see number say people mean good dead people short period time want people feeling hope negative wait minute number terrible go horrible horrible thing hey jim jim month say okay let beach let airport let mardi gras donald trump lot people say fortunately alternative talk alternative say let rip let ride million dead people catch early stop china early stop europe early see happen happen stop italy italy heavily infected start certain part italy italy stop spain say stop europe let stop europe stop come europe love europe have problem think anybody well job especially million number hope go substantially number look minimum think hey look tremendous death jim hope dissipate disappear donald trump want positive want negative positive person somebody say oh wish negative literally wonderful newspaper today wish negative easy negative want people hope cheerleader country go bad thing country probably see look civil war lose people right thing lose time go hopefully way lose potentially lose world war country positive great want people country hope think important jim know go severe say control donald trump know know horrible know maybe good forget time people know expert talk know go see china maybe stop china wish kill china happen start spread europe start spread start spread blame anybody say incredible thing think people professional military governor politician think incredible job exception think incredible job donald trump want negative person easy come bad news go lose people go happen week start say today long question say go rough week go roughest week country go lose thousand people donald trump people governor new jersey people people die new york yesterday number think kind number witness see number like easy negative everybody negative cheerleader country want great job number keep say want number people die possible work jim like question take donald trump mind question think actually think mean look know mean fair question fair question think fantastic job okay fine accept word look jim think great job go come look minimal number people look million people die donald trump go come statement confine similar time maybe time violence like see country great professional great military great governor politician go say think way ahead schedule term number think hope minimum number country country great job think good job mobilize think mike pence fantastic charge task force wonderful people task force jim wonderful people man work literally day bed sleep call go hour start day donald trump know job know good manager honest mike okay know somebody test fire see early see early know pretty soon probably know soon anybody study depressing business right let little bit depressing see ahead john john ask dr fauci question headline run day perspective professor mit dr fauci suggest coronavirus carry droplet distance foot buy case suggest current social distancing guideline need extend dr fauci terribly mislead john look distance droplet speak cough sneeze way achoo like foot somebody way john know people dr fauci practical john sorry disturb report mislead mean sudden foot thing work robust vigorous achoo sneeze talk donald trump want go ahead speaker get follow mask sir mention franklin graham talk donald trump speaker know father billy graham trust spiritual advisor friend president lot predecessor time national emergency reach pastor spiritual counselor national donald trump franklin graham somebody special special people special evangelical evangelical christian community talk rabbis talk lot tremendous support religious leader franklin graham speak today extended period time tell fantastic job love love help people love jesus tell love jesus great gentleman ahead speaker mask sir mask maybe doctor donald trump speaker mask reason cdc recommendation public wear mask mean save preserve mask medical worker virus primarily transmit air dr birx cdc recommendation website mask come task force week ago infect wear mask protect work sick worker household remember want people household take care wear mask know question broad consider task force recommendation exist relevant wear mask alter way discussion donald trump mask mask mean people scarf scarf good use scarf talk limited period time say recommendation use substitute scarf mask people feel think people disagree mask reason people wear scarf mask make feel well objection people recommend let speaker mr president donald trump people tired thank good question speaker president look case world latin america middle east want impose travel ban area brazil instance president bolsanar keep active group afraid threaten donald trump mean people mean people speaker united states donald trump mean pretty spread anymore think press conference anymore speaker understand donald trump careful careful personally speaker travel ban mean donald trump look numerous country position brazil example mention president brazil problem short time ago start inflame yes absolutely look ban country mention iran band sort automatic ban addition band look certain country hot speaker start new day plan go stay white house go travel go shelterinplace donald trump want opening hospital new york people believe say want want secret service want reason want boat sail new york harbor governor good job mayor new york love white house sort like nerve center control center think important look happen boris johnson happen think important remain healthy stay cancel different event stay john president tom frieden director cdc write article day say need inaudible task force incident commander command go thing coordinate useful particular instance donald trump mike pence pete gaynor administrator fema president sign national emergency declaration stand national response center fema tell white house coronavirus task force meet end table pete gaynor fema team video conference end table airbridge literally bring million medical supply world thoughtful deployment supply hospital particularly regard ventilator work closely hhs fully integrate fema president decision stand fema lead coronavirus task force white house bring president good health expert recommendation agency implementation tell governor literally day happen fema go state fema state request come regional administrator fema white house speaker time ventilator park warehouse new jersey mike pence long speaker case mike pence move long time ago need speaker question question happen people know new abbott testing facility testing system incident commander charge get word useful mike pence know abbott bring life week ago come speaker right mike pence invention know know incredible job scientist come idea week half ago show yesterday box think well mike pence mr president think point take abbott laboratories point contact test approve friday president announce rose garden sunday socialize country governor laboratory tell team president assemble advisor white house coronavirus task force team fema hhs deputy secretary bob kadelac coordinate supply admiral zua literally work state county county basis deploy testing impressive mike pence think give great encouragement governor president speak governor state territory yesterday governor tell experience governor indiana tornado flooding governor know deal fema soon president stand fema declare national emergency certain muscle memory kick state country see tremendous efficiency communication go forward president vision fema vision response health crisis locally execute state manage federally support tell see process spin day hope americans look encourage system know hear governor country flow resource testing supply continue incident command federal emergency management agency work donald trump week governor truly dislike year decide run president say tell great job team great job governor respect respected case say like like team incredible job think think incredible job ahead speaker president thank question modeling kind health modeling base national lockdown sort guidance single state need lockdown dr birx modeler present mean want thank assemble globe quickly week ago announce day implication close school have people stay home model stay home social distancing foot actually term lockdown far remember stay home think difference model think talk know different think mean overseas happen africa think look china data originally say oh million people million people wuhan million people hebei come number start think like sar kind global pandemic dr birx mean frank look like oh close quarter think medical community interpret chinese datum small expect think probably miss significant datum happen italy hate happen spain model lockdown country remove people home positive separate space model model ask modeler lockdown versus lock model people stay home speaker guess ask good case scenario say good case scenario people know try number low good case scenario state basically have lockdown behavior maybe actual lockdown basically stay home true tell state dr birx everybody social distancing foot outside probably absolutely key foot single individual control virus different method point think hear president vice president trust american people understand outside walk foot away home trust have lockdown speaker mr president question ventilator donald trump want add think thing know virus contagious incredibly contagious know like know anybody see like normally close touch lot thing happen like truly invisible contagious think doctor know time think anybody know people see like speaker question ventilator talk fact want state bid governor new york andrew cuomo say federal system federal government set price federal government distribute ventilator kind system donald trump distribute thousand ventilator thousand ventilator buy good price actually make thousand make see yesterday ford go tremendous number look ventilator ford great general electric healthcare great general motor come long way honest work hard make thousand thousand ventilator end optimistic want want optimistic optimistic person let tell thousand ventilator want sure plenty future want help italy france country know problem ventilator tough come hard complicated expensive yeah speaker governor cuomo mistake donald trump ahead ahead speaker governor cuomo mistake say donald trump interpretation say know say think reasonably generous consider democrat think like run president think pretty generous circumstance generous look get ship get hospital get lot thing think hit pay dirt okay generous ventilator look thousand ventilator warehouse warehouse wait pick pick hear face face tomorrow okay get cut short john donald trump right inaudible tomorrow know meantime sure people enjoy incredibly dark topic incredibly horrible topic incredibly interesting everybody go crazy want careful guess study study lot people lot people positive hope good get wrong person mean person qualify generally speak list ravage horrible ahead speaker datum suggest go second wave point stay home order lockdown donald trump second wave hear dr fauci answer question go think wellprepare second wave will like wave well let little bit answer want upset wish answer question come doctor dr fauci talk second wave think talk different thing little bit different example day mitigation hope suppression dr birx talk danger continue maintain resurgence right current outbreak sort second way exacerbation current wave hope happen push emphatic make sure abide mitigation strategy aspect second wave nature virus president say highly transmissible go circulate part world go think feel certain worry season mention use experience intervention develop hopefully vaccine able deploy quickly possibly second wave seasonal exacerbation pull donald trump lot positive thing happen therapeutic drug different kind vaccine think lot positive thing happen okay speaker understand bad case scenario real scarcity problem give ventilator get curious sign life death decision gm ford ramp donald trump mike pence head fema general work unbeliever general work unbelievable talent unbelievable leader people come hope come think wellequipped honor tonight appreciate appreciate interest think great interest tomorrow tomorrow crosstalk transcribe content try rev save time transcribe 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November 21, 1985 By mutual agreement, President of the United States Ronald Reagan and General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union Mikhail Gorbachev met in Geneva November 19 - 21. Attending the meeting on the U.S. side were Secretary of State George Shultz; Chief of Staff Donald Regan; Assistant to the President Robert McFarlane; Ambassador to the USSR Arthur Hartman; Special Advisor to the President and the Secretary of State for Arms Control Paul H. Nitze; Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Rozanne Ridgway; Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Jack Matlock. Attending on the Soviet side were Member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, Minister of Foreign Affairs E. A. Shevardnadze; First Deputy Foreign Minister G. M. Korniyenko; Ambassador to the United States A. F. Dobrynin; Head of the Department of Propaganda of the Central Committee of the CPSU, A. N. Yakovlev; Head of the Department of International Information of the Central Committee of the CPSU L. M. Zamyatin; Assistant to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, A. M. Aleksandrov. These comprehensive discussions covered the basic questions of U.S.-Soviet relations and the current international situation. The meetings were frank and useful. Serious differences remain on a number of critical issues. While acknowledging the differences in their systems and approaches to international issues, some greater understanding of each side's view was achieved by the two leaders. They agreed about the need to improve U.S.-Soviet relations and the international situation as a whole. In this connection the two sides have confirmed the importance of an ongoing dialogue, reflecting their strong desire to seek common ground on existing problems. They agreed to meet again in the nearest future. The General Secretary accepted an invitation by the President of the United States to visit the United States of America and the President of the United States accepted an invitation by the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU to visit the Soviet Union. Arrangements for and timing of the visits will be agreed upon through diplomatic channels. In their meetings, agreement was reached on a number of specific issues. Areas of agreement are registered on the following pages. Security The sides, having discussed key security issues, and conscious of the special responsibility of the USSR and the U.S. for maintaining peace, have agreed that a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought. Recognizing that any conflict between the USSR and the U.S. could have catastrophic consequences, they emphasized the importance of preventing any war between them, whether nuclear or conventional. They will not seek to achieve military superiority. Nuclear and Space Talks The President and the General Secretary discussed the negotiations on nuclear and space arms. They agreed to accelerate the work at these negotiations, with a view to accomplishing the tasks set down in the Joint U.S.-Soviet Agreement of January 8, 1985, namely to prevent an arms race in space and to terminate it on earth, to limit and reduce nuclear arms and enhance strategic stability. Noting the proposals recently tabled by the U.S. and the Soviet Union, they called for early progress, in particular in areas where there is common ground, including the principle of 50% reductions in the nuclear arms of the U.S. and the USSR appropriately applied, as well as the idea of an interim INF agreement. During the negotiation of these agreements, effective measures for verification of compliance with obligations assumed will be agreed upon. Risk Reduction Centers The sides agreed to study the question at the expert level of centers to reduce nuclear risk taking into account the issues and developments in the Geneva negotiations. They took satisfaction in such recent steps in this direction as the modernization of the Soviet-U.S. hotline. Nuclear Non-Proliferation General Secretary Gorbachev and President Reagan reaffirmed the commitment of the USSR and the U.S. to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and their interest in strengthening together with other countries the non-proliferation regime, and in further enhancing the effectiveness of the Treaty, inter alia by enlarging its membership. They note with satisfaction the overall positive results of the recent Review Conference of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The USSR and the U.S. reaffirm their commitment, assumed by them under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, to pursue negotiations in good faith on matters of nuclear arms limitation and disarmament in accordance with Article VI of the Treaty. The two sides plan to continue to promote the strengthening of the International Atomic Energy Agency and to support the activities of the Agency in implementing safeguards as well as in promoting the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. They view positively the practice of regular Soviet-U.S. consultations on non-proliferation of nuclear weapons which have been businesslike and constructive and express their intent to continue this practice in the future. Chemical Weapons In the context of discussing security problems, the two sides reaffirmed that they are in favor of a general and complete prohibition of chemical weapons and the destruction of existing stockpiles of such weapons. They agreed to accelerate efforts to conclude an effective and verifiable international convention on this matter. The two sides agreed to intensify bilateral discussions on the level of experts on all aspects of such a chemical weapons ban, including the question of verification. They agreed to initiate a dialogue on preventing the proliferation of chemical weapons. MBFR The two sides emphasized the importance they attach to the Vienna (MBFR) negotiations and expressed their willingness to work for positive results. CDE Attaching great importance to the Stockholm Conference on Confidence and Security Building Measures and Disarmament in Europe and noting the progress made there, the two sides stated their intention to facilitate, together with the other participating states, an early and successful completion of the work of the conference. To this end, they reaffirmed the need for a document which would include mutually acceptable confidence and security building measures and give concrete expression and effect to the principle of non-use of force. Process of Dialogue President Reagan and General Secretary Gorbachev agreed on the need to place on a regular basis and intensify dialogue at various levels. Along with meetings between the leaders of the two countries, this envisages regular meetings between the USSR Minister of Foreign Affairs and the U.S. Secretary of State, as well as between the heads of other Ministries and Agencies. They agree that the recent visits of the heads of Ministries and Departments in such fields as agriculture, housing and protection of the environment have been useful. Recognizing that exchanges of views on regional issues on the expert level have proven useful, they agreed to continue such exchanges on a regular basis. The sides intend to expand the programs of bilateral cultural, educational and scientific-technical exchanges, and also to develop trade and economic ties. The President of the United States and the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU attended the signing of the Agreement on Contacts and Exchanges in Scientific, Educational and Cultural Fields. They agreed on the importance of resolving humanitarian cases in the spirit of cooperation. They believe that there should be greater understanding among our peoples and that to this end they will encourage greater travel and people-to-people contact. Northern Pacific Air Safety The two leaders also noted with satisfaction that, in cooperation with the Government of Japan, the United States and the Soviet Union have agreed to a set of measures to promote safety on air routes in the North Pacific and have worked out steps to implement them. Civil Aviation / Consulates They acknowledged that delegations from the United States and the Soviet Union have begun negotiations aimed at resumption of air services. The two leaders expressed their desire to reach a mutually beneficial agreement at an early date. In this regard, an agreement was reached on the simultaneous opening of Consulates General in New York and Kiev. Environmental Protection Both sides agreed to contribute to the preservation of the environment -- a global task -- through joint research and practical measures. In accordance with the existing U.S.-Soviet agreement in this area, consultations will be held next year in Moscow and Washington on specific programs of cooperation. Exchange Initiatives The two leaders agreed on the utility of broadening exchanges and contacts including some of their new forms in a number of scientific, educational, medical and sports fields (inter alia, cooperation in the development of educational exchanges and software for elementary and secondary school instruction; measures to promote Russian language studies in the United States and English language studies in the USSR; the annual exchange of professors to conduct special courses in history, culture and economics at the relevant departments of Soviet and American institutions of higher education; mutual allocation of scholarships for the best students in the natural sciences, technology, social sciences and humanities for the period of an academic year; holding regular meets in various sports and increased television coverage of sports events). The two sides agreed to resume cooperation in combatting cancer diseases. The relevant agencies in each of the countries are being instructed to develop specific programs for these exchanges. The resulting programs will be reviewed by the leaders at their next meeting. Fusion Research The two leaders emphasized the potential importance of the work aimed at utilizing controlled thermonuclear fusion for peaceful purposes and, in this connection, advocated the widest practicable development of international cooperation in obtaining this source of energy, which is essentially inexhaustible, for the benefit for all mankind. 40 Presidential Drive Simi Valley, CA 93065 800-410-8354 [email protected] Museum Hours Mon-Sun 10am-5pm Research Room Hours Mon-Fri 9am-5pm Appointments Are Required Holiday and Special Event Hours Closed Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, and New Year's Day

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november mutual agreement president united states ronald reagan general secretary central committee communist party soviet union mikhail gorbachev meet geneva november attend meeting secretary state george shultz chief staff donald regan assistant president robert mcfarlane ambassador ussr arthur hartman special advisor president secretary state arm control paul h nitze assistant secretary state european affair rozanne ridgway special assistant president national security affairs jack matlock attend soviet member politburo central committee cpsu minister foreign affairs e shevardnadze deputy foreign minister g m korniyenko ambassador united states f dobrynin head department propaganda central committee cpsu n yakovlev head department international information central committee cpsu l m zamyatin assistant general secretary central committee cpsu m aleksandrov comprehensive discussion cover basic question ussoviet relation current international situation meeting frank useful difference remain number critical issue acknowledge difference system approach international issue great understanding side view achieve leader agree need improve ussoviet relation international situation connection side confirm importance ongoing dialogue reflect strong desire seek common ground exist problem agree meet near future general secretary accept invitation president united states visit united states america president united states accept invitation general secretary central committee cpsu visit soviet union arrangement timing visit agree diplomatic channel meeting agreement reach number specific issue area agreement register follow page security side having discuss key security issue conscious special responsibility ussr maintain peace agree nuclear war win fight recognize conflict ussr catastrophic consequence emphasize importance prevent war nuclear conventional seek achieve military superiority nuclear space talk president general secretary discuss negotiation nuclear space arm agree accelerate work negotiation view accomplish task set joint ussoviet agreement january prevent arm race space terminate earth limit reduce nuclear arm enhance strategic stability note proposal recently table soviet union call early progress particular area common ground include principle reduction nuclear arm ussr appropriately apply idea interim inf agreement negotiation agreement effective measure verification compliance obligation assume agree risk reduction center side agree study question expert level center reduce nuclear risk take account issue development geneva negotiation take satisfaction recent step direction modernization sovietus hotline nuclear nonproliferation general secretary gorbachev president reagan reaffirm commitment ussr treaty nonproliferation nuclear weapon interest strengthen country nonproliferation regime enhance effectiveness treaty inter alia enlarge membership note satisfaction overall positive result recent review conference treaty nonproliferation nuclear weapon ussr reaffirm commitment assume treaty nonproliferation nuclear weapon pursue negotiation good faith matter nuclear arm limitation disarmament accordance article vi treaty side plan continue promote strengthening international atomic energy agency support activity agency implement safeguard promote peaceful use nuclear energy view positively practice regular sovietus consultation nonproliferation nuclear weapon businesslike constructive express intent continue practice future chemical weapon context discuss security problem side reaffirm favor general complete prohibition chemical weapon destruction exist stockpile weapon agree accelerate effort conclude effective verifiable international convention matter side agree intensify bilateral discussion level expert aspect chemical weapon ban include question verification agree initiate dialogue prevent proliferation chemical weapon mbfr side emphasize importance attach vienna mbfr negotiation express willingness work positive result cde attach great importance stockholm conference confidence security building measure disarmament europe note progress side state intention facilitate participate state early successful completion work conference end reaffirm need document include mutually acceptable confidence security building measure concrete expression effect principle nonuse force process dialogue president reagan general secretary gorbachev agree need place regular basis intensify dialogue level meeting leader country envisage regular meeting ussr minister foreign affair secretary state head ministry agency agree recent visit head ministry department field agriculture housing protection environment useful recognize exchange view regional issue expert level prove useful agree continue exchange regular basis side intend expand program bilateral cultural educational scientifictechnical exchange develop trade economic tie president united states general secretary central committee cpsu attend signing agreement contact exchange scientific educational cultural field agree importance resolve humanitarian case spirit cooperation believe great understanding people end encourage great travel peopletopeople contact northern pacific air safety leader note satisfaction cooperation government japan united states soviet union agree set measure promote safety air route north pacific work step implement civil aviation consulate acknowledge delegation united states soviet union begin negotiation aim resumption air service leader express desire reach mutually beneficial agreement early date regard agreement reach simultaneous opening consulate general new york kiev environmental protection side agree contribute preservation environment global task joint research practical measure accordance exist ussoviet agreement area consultation hold year moscow washington specific program cooperation exchange initiative leader agree utility broaden exchange contact include new form number scientific educational medical sport field inter alia cooperation development educational exchange software elementary secondary school instruction measure promote russian language study united states english language study ussr annual exchange professor conduct special course history culture economic relevant department soviet american institution high education mutual allocation scholarship good student natural science technology social science humanity period academic year hold regular meet sport increase television coverage sport event side agree resume cooperation combat cancer disease relevant agency country instruct develop specific program exchange result program review leader meeting fusion research leader emphasize potential importance work aim utilize control thermonuclear fusion peaceful purpose connection advocate wide practicable development international cooperation obtain source energy essentially inexhaustible benefit mankind presidential drive simi valley reaganlibrarynaragov museum hour 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Speeches, etc. Q1. Mr. Rifkind asked the Prime Minister whether he is satisfied with the co-ordination between the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Secretary of State for Employment with regard to the level of unemployment in Scotland. The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan) Yes. Mr. Rifkind Is the Prime Minister aware that the appalling lack of co-ordination in employment matters led to a heavy Government defeat this morning in the Scottish Grand Committee? Is he not also aware that it was due to the unpaired absence of 13 Labour Members? Does he not feel that the trend he began 10 days ago of allowing the Government to be defeated because of his own unpaired absence is being followed a little too closely by many of his hon. Friends and could lead to the unemployment of the Labour Government? The Prime Minister I am glad to say that the co-ordination between the various Departments—and the Question relates to co-ordination—has resulted in assistance being given in a number of important respects. For example, it has led to Section 7 loans and grants totalling £41 million and to some 35,000 jobs—[Hon. Members: “Answer the question.” ]—anticipating a total expenditure of £383 million. I thought that the hon. Gentleman was getting to his feet to congratulate the Government on their part in establishing the Cummins Engine Company diesel works near Glasgow, in which the Scottish Development Corporation has set aside a considerable sum of money for the provision of labour. That project is going through because of the good quality of Scottish labour. All that seems to me to be much more important than making the kind of point the hon. Gentleman sought to make in his supplementary question. Mr. David Steel Will the Prime Minister say when the two Secretaries of State will be announcing new measures to give employment incentives to Scottish development areas, as foreshadowed in statements he is always making about sudden withdrawals of regional employment premium? The Prime Minister Yes, discussions are taking place on that subject and I promise that action will follow as quickly as possible. A number of projects are now under consideration. The accelerated projects scheme has been replaced by the new selective scheme which involves a total of £100 million. Mr. William Ross Will my right hon. Friend not worry too much about the farce that we experienced this morning in [column 696]the Scottish Grand Committee? We welcome the fact that 10 English Members showed a belated interest in Scottish education and voted on something that did not matter at all. Will he take seriously the subject of co-ordination and widen it to include the Department of Industry and the Treasury? Furthermore, will he invite them to make an assessment and report to him on the consequences of the withdrawal of REP, and will he prepare a further programme of action? The Prime Minister Yes, I shall consider that suggestion. We have made a number of inquiries about REP, on which my right hon. Friend and others have made representations. However, it appears that business men much prefer the other incentives that are taking its place. Such research as we have done confirms that, but I shall continue to examine these matters and to obtain the best co-ordination possible. Mr. Donald Stewart As Scottish unemployment is at a level that is unprecedented since before the war and in view of what was said by the former Secretary of State for Scotland, the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross), that a Secretary of State who sees unemployment rising to 100,000 should resign, will the Prime Minister undertake to inform the present holder of that office that if he gets unemployment down to 100,000 he may remain in office? The Prime Minister Scottish unemployment is a factor in United Kingdom unemployment as a whole and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will tell his constituents that the economy of Scotland cannot be separated from that of England and Wales. The same factors affect both countries, including the increased prices of commodities and imported materials that have sent up costs so much. The unemployment situation in Scotland must be improved, and the Government's policy for industrial strategy is the best way of achieving that, coupled with overcoming inflation. Miss Harvie Anderson Since the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) objects to English Members voting in a Scottish Committee, can the Prime Minister say whether the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock will abstain from the [column 697]English education vote tonight or, indeed, from the United Kingdom vote? The Prime Minister I should not dream of answering on behalf of my right hon. Friend. Having heard him bite off one Tory after another during his years in the House, I can tell the right hon. Lady that he is more than a match for any 10 of her colleagues. Q2. Mr. Ian Lloyd asked the Prime Minister whether he is satisfied with the co-ordination between the Ministry of Defence and the Department of the Environment on the arrangements being made for rehousing Service men on their retirement or discharge from the Services. The Prime Minister Yes. Mr. Lloyd Since the House may safely assume that the Prime Minister is familiar with the heavy concentration of Service families in Hampshire, may I ask whether he is also aware that in one local authority area alone there are 78 Service families in irregular occupation of military accommodation? If the problem is to be handled on a more realistic basis, does it not require a more realistic approach to the rate support grant for the county? The Prime Minister I am aware of this question, particularly in places such as Gosport, Portsmouth and Rushmoor, Aldershot. I am told that there was a meeting a short while ago between the Department of the Environment and the Ministry of Defence on the one hand and the local authorities on the other to deal with the problem. The situation is not satisfactory, although Circular 54/75 was intended to deal with it. I hope that local authorities everywhere will do what they can, within their overall responsibilities, to assist the resettlement of ex-Service men when they have finished their term in the forces. Mr. Newens Does not the Prime Minister regard it as an appalling insult to a Service man who has satisfactorily completed his term of service that he should be taken out of a Defence Department-owned house by a bailiff acting on a court order? Does the Prime Minister realise that this is exactly what is due to happen to one of my constituents, Mr. Wood of North Weald, next Monday morning because the local Epping Forest Council is [column 698]unable to offer anything better for his family than bed-and-breakfast accommodation? Is it not time to stop this state of affairs, not only for my constituent but for all such people? The Prime Minister Now that my hon. Friend has brought the matter into the daylight, I am sure that it will be looked into, if that has not been done before. I shall not undertake any action myself but I shall draw the matter to the attention of the Secretary of State for Defence. Mr. Churchill Does the Prime Minister realise that only this week the Secretary of State for Defence admitted in a Written Answer that more than 125,000 jobs have been deliberately destroyed in the Services and defence industries as a result of the Socialist defence cuts? Does the Prime Minister realise that there will be further cuts involving another 218,000 jobs by 1979? Is not this the biggest job destruction programme ever undertaken by any Government, and how does the Prime Minister excuse his callous complacency? The Prime Minister The hon. Member should not confuse whirling words with cogent argument. The Question is related to the rehousing of ex-Service men. I have dealt with that Question, I have been into it thoroughly and I shall continue to investigate it. Mr. Pavitt As one of the most imaginative schemes of the Government has been the promotion of co-operative housing in the ordinary sector, though it is having to be held back a bit because of public expenditure cuts, would my right hon. Friend consider as a possible solution to the housing problems of ex-Service men that the Ministry of Defence and the Department of the Environment might pursue the formation of housing co-operatives? The Prime Minister I shall draw my hon. Friend's suggestion to the attention of the Department of the Environment and the Secretary of State for Defence. Mr. Nelson Does the Prime Minister know about the serious housing difficulties that are faced by widows of Service men who have been killed, by invalided Service men and by Service men who face risks in settling in Northern Ireland but who have family connections there? Although local authorities do not have any priorities forced upon them, will the [column 699]Prime Minister give priority to these special groups to whom we all owe a particular responsibility? The Prime Minister I should not want to see a widow turned out of a Service house if that could be avoided. I speak from personal experience of this matter. When my father died, we were living in a Coastguard cottage and we had to leave. That was many years ago and I hope that we have moved beyond that situation now, but that is why I am taking a personal interest in the matter and I shall try to do everything that I can to overcome it. Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles Does the Prime Minister remember from his days as a divisional officer the haunting problem that housing posed for his sailors? Does he realise that with the turbulence that there now is in Service life, many ex-Service people have either no home towns to which they can return or insufficient residence qualifications in dockyard and garrison towns? The present Department of the Environment circular is not proving very effective. Therefore, can the Prime Minister help and have a personal word with the Secretary of State for the Environment to see whether something more effective can be persuaded upon local authorities all over the country? The Prime Minister Much information and advice is given to Service men at all stages in their careers. Not all of them take advantage of it, but many do. The Secretary of State for the Environment is prepared to consider an application from any local authority that can make a case for allowing priorities for areas of housing stress or pockets of housing stress. That is the best way to proceed. I am, however, willing to look at any other matter and to ask the Secretary of State to investigate it. Q3. Mr Forman asked the Prime Minister when he last met the TUC. The Prime Minister I refer the hon. Member to the reply that I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mr. Corbett) on 3rd February. Mr. Forman When the Prime Minister last met the TUC, did he make clear [column 700]that he is now prepared to shelve the damaging and controversial proposals in the Bullock majority recommendation for putting trade unionists on the board? Is not one of the reasons why the prospects for further pay restraint beyond the end of July are now so dim—and perhaps fatally damaging that the Government's policies on direct taxation have put a crushing burden on ordinary working people? The Prime Minister I have nothing to add to what I have previously said in the House about the Bullock Report. We are entering a period of intense negotiation in order to try, if possible, to see how we can secure a lasting settlement, but that will take a great deal of negotiation to achieve. I do not know whether we can achieve it, but it is worth trying because there is no doubt that the idea of industrial democracy and participation has come to stay. Therefore, we ought to try to find a solution and introduce legislation to achieve it. As to direct taxation, everybody is suffering from that, always has done and always will, but no doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer will have more to say about that when he introduces his Budget. Mr. John Mendelson Has the Prime Minister seen that, in the statement which arose from the meeting of the economic committee of the General Council of the TUC, great stress was laid on the measures that Government should take to reduce unemployment? Is he aware that the President of the United States is implementing the programme of the American trade union movement with whose support he was elected and is spending $25,000 million to create 1,100,000 new jobs? In his forthcoming discussions with the President, will my right hon. Friend agree that Great Britain should have a similar policy and should abandon the policy of not spending more public money to save jobs but rather of allowing unemployment to remain at its present high level? The Prime Minister Such a policy will be appropriate when the Government secure, as they intend, a level of inflation and a balance of payments surplus that are comparable to those of the United States. Even apart from that, [column 701]the two cases are not equal and the same remedies are not applicable. Mrs. Thatcher Can James Callaghanthe right hon. Gentleman tell the House why it is, in his view, that when we had the pay dispute with the seamen their claim was able to be resolved generously and satisfactorily within the pay policy but that the Government seem totally unable to respond in the same way to the police claim? Is he aware that this is giving rise to very considerable concern and that we all hope that the Government will be able to respond and solve the dispute generously within the pay policy? The Prime Minister If it is possible to settle the policemen's pay claim within the pay policy, the right hon. Lady need have no doubt that it will be done. The Home Secretary is the responsible Minister, but I try to keep myself apprised of such matters in case I get asked the sort of question that the right hon. Lady asked. From my cursory examination, it appears that the cases of the policemen and the seamen are not on all fours and are not altogether comparable. The Home Secretary is doing what he can to get a settlement. I have always taken the view that the police service should get the best possible conditions, but we cannot break a Pay Code which has been generally accepted, even for the most deserving cases. If we can find something within the limits of the Pay Code, I agree that we should do so. Mrs. Thatcher Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that no one in my party has ever sought a breach of the Government's Pay Code and that I said this when we had the National Union of Seamen's dispute? As the right hon. Gentleman does not hesitate to take over responsibilities from other Departments, will he intervene personally in this case? After all, he has a special knowledge of the police claim and it is one that is very important indeed for the future safety of the citizens of this country. The Prime Minister I have listened to the right hon. Lady's proposals, but she knows that I have not taken over responsibilities from other Ministers—though she insists on continuing to say that I have. It would not be right for me to do so in this case, but, of course, these matters will receive overall Government consideration. Mr. Speaker Business Question, Mrs. Thatcher. Mr. Alexander W. Lyon On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I was about to address you on the question of a Standing Order No. 9 application in relation to the Agee and Hosenball case. I recognise that you have said that this should be done at the end of business questions, but I rise to warn my hon. Friends that they had better come back from the Tea Room at the appropriate time. Mr. Speaker That was more a matter of strategy than a point of order. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mr rifkind ask prime minister satisfied coordination secretary state scotland secretary state employment regard level unemployment scotland prime minister mr james callaghan yes mr rifkind prime minister aware appalling lack coordination employment matter lead heavy government defeat morning scottish grand committee aware unpaired absence labour member feel trend begin day ago allow government defeat unpaired absence follow little closely hon friend lead unemployment labour government prime minister glad coordination department question relate coordination result assistance give number important respect example lead section loan grant total million job hon member answer question anticipate total expenditure million think hon gentleman get foot congratulate government establish cummin engine company diesel work near glasgow scottish development corporation set aside considerable sum money provision labour project go good quality scottish labour important make kind point hon gentleman seek supplementary question mr david steel prime minister secretary state announce new measure employment incentive scottish development area foreshadow statement make sudden withdrawal regional employment premium prime minister yes discussion take place subject promise action follow quickly possible number project consideration accelerate project scheme replace new selective scheme involve total million mr william ross right hon friend worry farce experience morning column scottish grand committee welcome fact english member show belate interest scottish education vote matter seriously subject coordination widen include department industry treasury furthermore invite assessment report consequence withdrawal rep prepare programme action prime minister yes shall consider suggestion number inquiry rep right hon friend representation appear business man prefer incentive take place research confirm shall continue examine matter obtain good coordination possible mr donald stewart scottish unemployment level unprecedented war view say secretary state scotland right hon member kilmarnock mr ross secretary state see unemployment rise resign prime minister undertake inform present holder office get unemployment remain office prime minister scottish unemployment factor united kingdom unemployment hope hon gentleman tell constituent economy scotland separate england wale factor affect country include increase price commodity import material send cost unemployment situation scotland improve government policy industrial strategy good way achieve couple overcome inflation miss harvie anderson right hon member kilmarnock mr ross object english member vote scottish committee prime minister right hon member kilmarnock abstain column education vote tonight united kingdom vote prime minister dream answer behalf right hon friend having hear bite tory year house tell right hon lady match colleague mr ian lloyd ask prime minister satisfied coordination ministry defence department environment arrangement rehouse service man retirement discharge service prime minister yes mr lloyd house safely assume prime minister familiar heavy concentration service family hampshire ask aware local authority area service family irregular occupation military accommodation problem handle realistic basis require realistic approach rate support grant county prime minister aware question particularly place gosport portsmouth rushmoor aldershot tell meeting short ago department environment ministry defence hand local authority deal problem situation satisfactory circular intend deal hope local authority overall responsibility assist resettlement exservice man finish term force mr newen prime minister regard appalling insult service man satisfactorily complete term service take defence departmentowne house bailiff act court order prime minister realise exactly happen constituent mr wood north weald monday morning local epping forest council column offer well family bedandbreakfast accommodation time stop state affair constituent people prime minister hon friend bring matter daylight sure look shall undertake action shall draw matter attention secretary state defence mr churchill prime minister realise week secretary state defence admit write answer job deliberately destroy service defence industry result socialist defence cut prime minister realise cut involve job big job destruction programme undertake government prime minister excuse callous complacency prime minister hon member confuse whirling word cogent argument question relate rehousing exservice man deal question thoroughly shall continue investigate mr pavitt imaginative scheme government promotion cooperative housing ordinary sector have hold bit public expenditure cut right hon friend consider possible solution housing problem exservice man ministry defence department environment pursue formation housing cooperative prime minister shall draw hon friend suggestion attention department environment secretary state defence mr nelson prime minister know housing difficulty face widow service man kill invalided service man service man face risk settle northern ireland family connection local authority priority force column minister priority special group owe particular responsibility prime minister want widow turn service house avoid speak personal experience matter father die live coastguard cottage leave year ago hope move situation take personal interest matter shall try overcome rearadmiral morgangile prime minister remember day divisional officer haunt problem housing pose sailor realise turbulence service life exservice people home town return insufficient residence qualification dockyard garrison town present department environment circular prove effective prime minister help personal word secretary state environment effective persuade local authority country prime minister information advice give service man stage career advantage secretary state environment prepared consider application local authority case allow priority area housing stress pocket housing stress good way proceed willing look matter ask secretary state investigate mr forman ask prime minister meet tuc prime minister refer hon member reply give hon friend member hemel hempstead mr corbett february mr forman prime minister meet tuc clear column prepared shelve damaging controversial proposal bullock majority recommendation put trade unionist board reason prospect pay restraint end july dim fatally damage government policy direct taxation crush burden ordinary work people prime minister add previously say house bullock report enter period intense negotiation order try possible secure last settlement great deal negotiation achieve know achieve worth try doubt idea industrial democracy participation come stay ought try find solution introduce legislation achieve direct taxation everybody suffer doubt chancellor exchequer introduce budget mr john mendelson prime minister see statement arise meeting economic committee general council tuc great stress lay measure government reduce unemployment aware president united states implement programme american trade union movement support elect spend million create new job forthcoming discussion president right hon friend agree great britain similar policy abandon policy spend public money save job allow unemployment remain present high level prime minister policy appropriate government secure intend level inflation balance payment surplus comparable united states apart column case equal remedy applicable mrs thatcher james callaghanthe right hon gentleman tell house view pay dispute seamen claim able resolve generously satisfactorily pay policy government totally unable respond way police claim aware give rise considerable concern hope government able respond solve dispute generously pay policy prime minister possible settle policemen pay claim pay policy right hon lady need doubt home secretary responsible minister try apprise matter case ask sort question right hon lady ask cursory examination appear case policeman seaman four altogether comparable home secretary settlement take view police service good possible condition break pay code generally accept deserving case find limit pay code agree mrs thatcher right hon gentleman aware party seek breach government pay code say national union seamens dispute right hon gentleman hesitate responsibility department intervene personally case special knowledge police claim important future safety citizen country prime minister listen right hon ladys proposal know take responsibility minister insist continue right case course matter receive overall government consideration mr speaker business question mrs thatcher mr alexander w lyon point order mr speaker address question stand order application relation agee hosenball case recognise say end business question rise warn hon friend well come tea room appropriate time mr speaker matter strategy point order 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This bill specifies that nothing in federal education law shall be construed to require the use, teaching, promotion, or recommendation of any academic discipline, program, or activity that holds certain principles related to race or sex.

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bill specify federal education law shall construe require use teach promotion recommendation academic discipline program activity hold certain principle relate race sex

Speeches, etc. Peace and Steady progress are the aims of most of our people in Britain today. Both have been achieved in the past 13 years of Conservative Government. We now hope to continue the policies that have been shown to work, using all that is good from the past to create a future that is better. Working For Peace Abroad Our policy of peace through strength has brought Britain safely through the years of tension and danger. It provides a realistic basis for better relations between East and West. It keeps this country at the centre of international affairs. We do not know what Communist strategy will be in the coming years or what sort of people will direct it. We do know that Russia and China remain committed to the long-term aim of promoting the Communist system throughout the World although they disagree on how it should be done. In the last resort Conservatives believe that Britain must have independently controlled nuclear power to deter any aggressor who was prepared to take a chance on our being left alone. We believe that to do otherwise would be to gamble with national safety and with our cherished liberties. Steady Advance At Home We justify our claim to support in the future by the facts of our improved standard of living at home which every fair-minded person must admit. Everyone can see the advance in the health of the children, in the service of education, in the provision of houses, in the amenities of life and the opportunities which are now within the reach of all. Millions now own their own homes and have a stake in industry. These improvements have been made possible by the performance of private enterprise and by a Government that has created conditions in which men and women of ability can exercise their talents for their own and their country's benefit. The Purpose John Boyd-CarpenterThe Minister of Pensions and National Insurance now has a larger call on the citizen's purse than any other department except Defence. Annual expenditure on retirement pensions alone has risen fourfold under Conservative Governments from £250 million to £1,000 million. We shall continue to use the growth of prosperity to enlarge opportunities for the young and to provide more generously for the old. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc peace steady progress aim people britain today achieve past year conservative government hope continue policy show work good past create future well work peace abroad policy peace strength bring britain safely year tension danger provide realistic basis well relation east west keep country centre international affair know communist strategy come year sort people direct know russia china remain committed longterm aim promote communist system world disagree resort conservative believe britain independently control nuclear power deter aggressor prepared chance leave believe gamble national safety cherish liberty steady advance home justify claim support future fact improve standard live home fairminded person admit advance health child service education provision house amenity life opportunity reach million home stake industry improvement possible performance private enterprise government create condition man woman ability exercise talent country benefit purpose john boydcarpenterthe minister pension national insurance large citizen purse department defence annual expenditure retirement pension rise fourfold conservative government million million shall continue use growth prosperity enlarge opportunity young provide generously old copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. With much of Britain basking on the beach, this may not be the best time to remind the country that we shall shortly have endured eighteen months of Labour Government. I do not expect the event to be marked by merry celebrations. Indeed, it would be rather like celebrating the arrival of a tax demand. Understandably, most people will not want to be reminded of unpleasant reality as they enjoy a well-earned break from the increasingly arduous task of making ends meet under a Labour Government. When this Government took office we had already been hit by the oil crisis and the tremendous increase in raw material prices. The worst had already happened. What we had to do in this country was what other countries were already doing; we had to mark time for a bit. We had to bring our spending into line with what we could earn. We had to produce more to pay the higher bills in the markets of the world. We had to stop consuming more than we could pay for. The last Conservative Government had already started to cut back. In the autumn of 1973, we announced public expenditure cuts totalling £1,200 million. The decisions were not easy to make, nor popular, but we took them because they were in our longer term interest. [end p1] Other countries did much the same thing. They tightened their belts—and the result is that, while they have got over the worst of their problems, our problems have got worse. So now we face not so much a world problem as a British problem—brought on by the action and inaction of the Labour Government. Let us look very briefly at the score card after eighteen months of socialism: First, prices. Inflation ran at over 26 per cent in the year to June 1975. The Wilson £1 in your pocket of March 1974 is now worth less than 75p. And all this happened at a time when world raw material prices were actually falling. A loss of over 25p in every £1. So prices have gone up under Labour twice as fast as in the last year of the Conservative Government when, unlike now, world prices went up by 70 per cent, and we had to absorb that increase. Do you remember all those promises that socialism and subsidies would slash inflation? They have been proved wrong by the record: I am happy that Mr. Wilson should be judged on that. And then consider unemployment. In February 1974, during the three-day week, unemployment stood at 629,000; now it stands at 1,087,000—the highest figure since March 1940—and it will go higher still. Over a thousand people have lost their jobs every day since the last General Election. There is no room for anything but grave disquiet in setting out those figures. And I will be honest about them. They would have to have gone up for any Government to beat inflation. But the indictment of Mr. Wilson is this. Unemployment will be much worse than it need have been because of what he and his Government have done. And because of what they have failed to do. [end p2] Thousands of families will pay the price this winter for the Government's delay in tackling inflation. And for the blows inflicted on industry by their nationalisation programme. But what is the Government's nationalisation programme? Let's look at it. FIRST: The Industry Bill, adding £1,000 million to the burden of public spending. SECOND: The Community Land Bill, initially costing the taxpayer £400 million. THIRD: The Petroleum and Submarine Pipelines Bill, adding £900 million to public spending. FOURTH: The Aircraft and Shipbuilding Industries Bill, adding £550 million to public spending. These are bad enough. But the true measure of the Government's extravagance is even more horrifying. For by April, 1976, total Government spending will have increased in just two years by nearly £400 for every man, woman and child in the country. All these measures introduced at a time when inflation is running at 26%; When unemployment is rising at over 1,000 people a day. When Mr Wilson's March 1974 Pound is worth less than 75 pence. When prices in nationalised industries rose by 42 per cent last year compared with 26 per cent overall. So inflation is weakening the victim that socialism will put to rest. The victim is private enterprise remorselessly crushed between ever-increasing taxation and an all too rigid ceiling of price controls. [end p3] The first essential is to restore an atmosphere of confidence in profitable private industry and to abandon The Industry Bill. The Industry Bill is supposed, modestly, to be about “re-generating British industry” . A splendid aim—but how is it to be achieved?. According to the Government, by extending State control and ownership of industry. That's what the whole apparatus of the Bill is about. It even establishes the NEB National Enterprise Board to buy, for the first time, into profitable manufacturing companies, sometimes without reference to Parliament. This is the first time a Government has taken powers to take over profitable companies. There was a time, certainly, in the 1940's when Labour politicians and sympathetic economists argued that nationalisation could be justified on economic grounds. Then, in the light of the performance of these industries, some of the faithful had doubts. Today, with the left-wing extremists making all the running, Labour comes back saying that if faith cannot move deficits, it can punish free enterprise for being free and enterprising. Consider the whole post-war record of Government mismanagement of the nationalised industries. Consider their massive losses. Consider that nationalised industries have enjoyed a State guaranteed monopoly in many areas. The story faithfully told leaves the lamentations of Jeremiah the prophet looking like an exercise in public relations. But it represents the actual record. I put that record against the fallacies of the Industry Bill. I put that record against the bombast of Ministers which accompanies every new nationalisation plan. [end p4] Then there is the sheer size of the NEB which will surely defeat any attempt at really effective management or adequate Parliamentary accountability. British Leyland—or should we call it British Wasteland—employing 170,000 men will be just one of the NEB's chicks. In such circumstances, there is no need to find shortcomings in Mr. Eric Varley. Anyone with less talent than a reincarnated consortium of Henry Ford, Attila the Hun, and Immanuel Kant will fall down on the job. The problem of giant companies is to be solved by creating monster bureaucracies. Some logic! Some solution! You remember the old Clause 4 which Gaitskell tried to abandon: “The ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange” . He knew the people did not really want it. But today's left wing, who dominate the Labour Party, are determined to have it. So much so, that the real motive behind the Industry Bill is the political one of resurrecting Clause 4, bringing it to its feet and setting it, slouching, towards Whitehall. [end p5] Thus making it a reality by taking over as much as possible as fast as possible. The Bill is not an affable piece of reform. It is the foundation charter of class warriors from the Tribune Group in Parliament, and the Morning Star Group in the unions and constituencies. Fudged or unfudged by the accepted amendments, it is rooted not in a desire to make a success of the mixed economy but in the doctrine of State ownership. Socialists pursue it for its own unprofitable sake. They pursue it for the power which it gives to a political Party, despite the wishes of the people. The Government's theme seems to be: Socialist failure is better than any kind of free enterprise success. Nor should anyone be deceived by the innocuous and pleasant sounding title of The Community Land Bill. Another measure of Socialist reaction which is set to cause so much grief. It should more properly be called the Land (Confiscation, Dispossession and Intrusion) Bill. Far from spreading the ownership of land and property amongst the ordinary people, it concentrates ownership in the hands of the State. As Mr. Crosland himself has said: “I have no doubts whatsoever that this will be the single most important—and the single most Socialist—measure to be implemented by this Labour Government” . (4 March 1975) Under this Bill local Councils will be compelled to buy up all development land. No development will be able to start until the local Council has first bought the land, and then disposed of it to the developer. A recipe for endless delay. There are at least four practical reasons why this Bill is bad, and why we condemn it. First, the legislation will make things much more difficult for young married couples wanting to buy a home. Because such homes will become scarcer and dearer. [end p6] For under this Bill, no trowel touches cement until the local Council has first acquired the land, almost certainly compulsorily, then languidly disposed of it to the builder. Already planning delays are adding anything up to about £500 to the cost of a new home. But instead of cutting these delays, the Labour Government have introduced a Bill which will make things take longer. They mean to keep housebuyers in a nice tidy queue until the new regulations have been applied in proper form by a quorum of Councillors. The Bill could affect the security of people's homes and gardens. Anyone who wants to sell their house could find that they would have to sell it to the local council. You can imagine the sort of price that would be paid. For where a local council decided to declare a special notification area anyone wanting to sell a home in that area would have to tell the council. They—the council—would then have four weeks in which to make up their mind whether to insist that the sale was made to them. Four weeks of uncertainty for the hapless seller. Second, the Bill could well hinder the industrialist who wants to build a factory on land which he already owns, in order to provide more jobs. For before he can do anything, he might have to sell the land to the Local Authority at current use value. He will then have no guarantee that he will be able to lease it back for the purpose of his new works. What a disincentive to a man who wants to create jobs, which we need in a country where unemployment is rising by over a thousand people a day. Third, the proposed new law represents a major attack on the personal ownership of property. Under its terms anyone who owns land could have it compulsorily taken over by the Local Council at a knock-down price. Consider the jolly time which the Clay Cross Comrades would have had with these powers. [end p7] Any objections on the grounds that the acquisition was unnecessary or inexpedient can be disregarded. Local Councils will have a complete monopoly of the buying and selling of land. Under the direction of the Secretary of State, they will be the sole arbiters of what developments may take place. Fourth, this Bill will make it more difficult to get rid of inflation. As. Mr. Healey admitted, one of the main causes of our present problems is that both the central Government and the local Councils are borrowing far too much money. But Mr. Crosland will greatly increase the debts of local Councils. For they will have to borrow the money for the purpose of buying up all development land and, in addition, they will have to employ a total of nearly thirteen thousand extra bureaucrats for the purpose of this measure. And this, at a time when the Government itself is asking for the utmost economy in public spending. First the Councils waste your money, then they waste your precious time! Higher rates will be charged now to cover the cost of building your house later. The Bill is therefore directly contrary to the Chancellor of the Exchequer's announced strategy for combating inflation. This Bill is both costly and harmful. If it should reach the Statute Book, a Conservative Government is pledged to repeal it. Beginning of section checked against ITN News at Ten, 15 August 1975 [end p8] Third, another Bill, the Petroleum and Submarines Pipeline Bill—now that doesn't sound very harmful either but that's the Bill to take a major nationalisation interest in North Sea Oil, and many of us would say that it is as well North Sea Oil wasn't nationalised before, because you may remember that every single drop of it was found and is now being brought ashore without a penny of expense to the tax payer, all paid for by private enterprise. And what does this Government do but take up extra public expenditure to nationalise it? Does it start to encourage those who've done such a jolly good job? But says, “No, we're going to nationalise it,” and that will be a very expensive Bill indeed. Some put it at £900 million, others put it as high as £6,000 million, which is three times the price of Concorde. The truth is that all of these nationalisation schemes take precedence in the Government's mind over things like hospitals and schools which have to be postponed yet again because they are saying those nationalisation measures are more important than the other things. End of section checked against ITN News at Ten, 15 August 1975. [end p9] The Government intends to exempt the BNOC from Petroleum Revenue Tax (paid by oil companies). Thus depriving the Exchequer of yet more oil revenue. And leaving Fred Citizen to pick up the tab at the next Budget. Thus the British people will be expected to forego the benefits of off-shore oil over the coming four of five years, so that the State can nationalise a 51%; stake of the off-shore oil production. For what? So that the Government controls the industry? It already does so. All the extra controls to be placed on the oil companies will, under the Bill, be exercised directly by the Department of Energy without reference to the BNOC. As we have all, painfully, learned, the Government does not need to own something to control it. The last of the Nationalisation Bills—the Aircraft and Shipbuilding Industries Bill will cost you five hundred and fifty million pounds. And in a way it sums up the whole sorry saga because here, as elsewhere, Mr. Wedgewood Benn claimed that the industry was dying. He forgot to mention that the Aerospace Industry, in 1974, produced a record export performance worth one thousand, five hundred million dollars. Yet Mr. Wedgewood Benn said that the industry could only be revived with your, the taxpayers' money. [end p10] He claimed that the Government must take control because so much had already been given to the industry. Yet of the £156 million that has gone to the shipbuilding industry since 1965, £115 million went to shipyards that were already nationalised. I wonder how much more will have to be given once the whole industry leaves the ever-diminishing profitable sector to enter the deficit game, so hallowed by Socialists. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc britain bask beach good time remind country shall shortly endure eighteen month labour government expect event mark merry celebration like celebrate arrival tax demand understandably people want remind unpleasant reality enjoy wellearne break increasingly arduous task make end meet labour government government take office hit oil crisis tremendous increase raw material price bad happen country country mark time bit bring spending line earn produce pay high bill market world stop consume pay conservative government start cut autumn announce public expenditure cut total million decision easy popular take long term interest end country thing tighten belt result get bad problem problem get bad face world problem british problem bring action inaction labour government let look briefly score card eighteen month socialism price inflation run cent year june wilson pocket march worth happen time world raw material price actually fall loss price go labour twice fast year conservative government unlike world price go cent absorb increase remember promise socialism subsidy slash inflation prove wrong record happy mr wilson judge consider unemployment february threeday week unemployment stand stand high figure march higher thousand people lose job day general election room grave disquiet set figure honest go government beat inflation indictment mr wilson unemployment bad need government fail end thousand family pay price winter government delay tackle inflation blow inflict industry nationalisation programme government nationalisation programme let look industry bill add million burden public spending second community land bill initially cost taxpayer million petroleum submarine pipeline bill add million public spending fourth aircraft shipbuilding industry bill add million public spending bad true measure government extravagance horrifying april total government spending increase year nearly man woman child country measure introduce time inflation run unemployment rise people day mr wilson march pound worth penny price nationalise industry rise cent year compare cent overall inflation weaken victim socialism rest victim private enterprise remorselessly crush everincrease taxation rigid ceiling price control end essential restore atmosphere confidence profitable private industry abandon industry bill industry bill suppose modestly regenerate british industry splendid aim achieve accord government extend state control ownership industry s apparatus bill establish neb national enterprise board buy time profitable manufacturing company reference parliament time government take power profitable company time certainly labour politician sympathetic economist argue nationalisation justify economic ground light performance industry faithful doubt today leftwe extremist make run labour come say faith deficit punish free enterprise free enterprising consider postwar record government mismanagement nationalise industry consider massive loss consider nationalise industry enjoy state guarantee monopoly area story faithfully tell leave lamentation jeremiah prophet look like exercise public relation represent actual record record fallacy industry bill record bombast minister accompany new nationalisation plan end sheer size neb surely defeat attempt effective management adequate parliamentary accountability british leyland british wasteland employ man nebs chick circumstance need find shortcoming mr eric varley talent reincarnate consortium henry ford attila hun immanuel kant fall job problem giant company solve create monster bureaucracy logic solution remember old clause gaitskell try abandon ownership mean production distribution exchange know people want today leave wing dominate labour party determined real motive industry bill political resurrect clause bring foot set slouch whitehall end make reality take possible fast possible bill affable piece reform foundation charter class warrior tribune group parliament morning star group union constituency fudge unfudge accept amendment root desire success mixed economy doctrine state ownership socialist pursue unprofitable sake pursue power give political party despite wish people government theme socialist failure well kind free enterprise success deceive innocuous pleasant sound title community land bill measure socialist reaction set cause grief properly call land confiscation dispossession intrusion bill far spread ownership land property ordinary people concentrate ownership hand state mr crosland say doubt whatsoever single important single socialist measure implement labour government march bill local council compel buy development land development able start local council buy land dispose developer recipe endless delay practical reason bill bad condemn legislation thing difficult young married couple want buy home home scarcer dearer end bill trowel touch cement local council acquire land certainly compulsorily languidly dispose builder plan delay add cost new home instead cut delay labour government introduce bill thing long mean housebuyer nice tidy queue new regulation apply proper form quorum councillor bill affect security people home garden want sell house find sell local council imagine sort price pay local council decide declare special notification area want sell home area tell council council week mind insist sale week uncertainty hapless seller second bill hinder industrialist want build factory land own order provide job sell land local authority current use value guarantee able lease purpose new work disincentive man want create job need country unemployment rise thousand people day propose new law represent major attack personal ownership property term own land compulsorily take local council knockdown price consider jolly time clay cross comrade power end objection ground acquisition unnecessary inexpedient disregard local council complete monopoly buying selling land direction secretary state sole arbiter development place fourth bill difficult rid inflation mr healey admit main cause present problem central government local council borrow far money mr crosland greatly increase debt local council borrow money purpose buy development land addition employ total nearly thirteen thousand extra bureaucrat purpose measure time government ask utmost economy public spending council waste money waste precious time high rate charge cover cost build house later bill directly contrary chancellor exchequer announce strategy combat inflation bill costly harmful reach statute book conservative government pledge repeal begin section check itn news august end bill petroleum submarine pipeline bill not sound harmful s bill major nationalisation interest north sea oil north sea oil not nationalise remember single drop find bring ashore penny expense tax payer pay private enterprise government extra public expenditure nationalise start encourage ve jolly good job say go nationalise expensive bill million high million time price concorde truth nationalisation scheme precedence government mind thing like hospital school postpone say nationalisation measure important thing end section check itn news august end government intend exempt bnoc petroleum revenue tax pay oil company deprive exchequer oil revenue leave fred citizen pick tab budget british people expect forego benefit offshore oil come year state nationalise stake offshore oil production government control industry extra control place oil company bill exercise directly department energy reference bnoc painfully learn government need control nationalisation bill aircraft shipbuilding industry bill cost million pound way sum sorry saga mr wedgewood benn claim industry die forget mention aerospace industry produce record export performance worth thousand million dollar mr wedgewood benn say industry revive taxpayer money end claim government control give industry million go shipbuilding industry million go shipyard nationalise wonder give industry leave everdiminishing profitable sector enter deficit game hallowed socialist copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Dear Sir Denis FollowsSir Denis, Thank you for your letter dated 1 February 1980. I fully understand the difficulties faced by the International Olympic Committee and by the British Olympic Association in considering the suggestion that the Olympic Games should be moved from Moscow. Nevertheless, as you will have seen from my statement in the House of Commons on 14 February, the Government has decided that its advice to British athletes must be not to go to the Games in Moscow next summer. We fully recognise the practical and constitutional difficulties involved in making changes to the present arrangements. We are deeply conscious of the disappointment which will be felt by British sportsmen and women who have been devoting themselves with heart, mind and body to preparations for the Games. Above all, we are conscious of the nobility of the Olympic ideal and the desirability of divorcing sport from politics. But the British Olympic Association, and the athletes whom you represent, must be aware that the decision to hold the 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow is already being presented by the Soviet Government as “convincing proof of the general acknowledgement of the historical importance and correct foreign policy of the USSR and of the huge services of the Soviet Union to peace” . This is a foretaste of the way in which the Soviet Union will exploit to its advantage every aspect of the propaganda value of the Olympic Games in Moscow, and will seek to identify attendance at the Games with support for the Soviet system. [end p1] British athletes have the same rights and the same responsibilities towards freedom and its maintenance as every citizen of the United Kingdom. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan on a flimsy pretext and its continued military occupation of a sovereign country violates all the principles governing relations between states and peoples. Western countries are already engaged in taking a number of far-reaching measures to bring home to the USSR their sense of out-rage, and the overwhelming majority of the members of the United Nations have voted for a Resolution calling for the withdrawal of the invaders. Until this happens, for British athletes to take part in games in Moscow this summer would be for them to seem to condone an international crime. We therefore ask that the British Olympic Association should accept the advice of the Government in this matter, and reflect it in your response to the invitation of the Moscow Organising Committee to take part in the Games in Moscow this summer. I am sending copies of this letter to the Chairmen of the Governing Bodies of the sports concerned in the summer Olympics. Yours Sincerely Margaret Thatcher Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc dear sir denis followssir denis thank letter date february fully understand difficulty face international olympic committee british olympic association consider suggestion olympic game move moscow see statement house common february government decide advice british athlete game moscow summer fully recognise practical constitutional difficulty involve make change present arrangement deeply conscious disappointment feel british sportsman woman devote heart mind body preparation game conscious nobility olympic ideal desirability divorce sport politic british olympic association athlete represent aware decision hold olympic game moscow present soviet government convincing proof general acknowledgement historical importance correct foreign policy ussr huge service soviet union peace foretaste way soviet union exploit advantage aspect propaganda value olympic game moscow seek identify attendance game support soviet system end british athlete right responsibility freedom maintenance citizen united kingdom soviet invasion afghanistan flimsy pretext continued military occupation sovereign country violate principle govern relation state people western country engage take number farreache measure bring home ussr sense outrage overwhelming majority member united nations vote resolution call withdrawal invader happen british athlete game moscow summer condone international crime ask british olympic association accept advice government matter reflect response invitation moscow organise committee game moscow summer send copy letter chairman govern body sport concern summer olympic sincerely margaret thatcher copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill prohibits the Armed Forces and academic institutions of the Department of Defense from promoting specified anti-American and racist theories (e.g., that any race is inherently superior or inferior to any other race). Specifically, the bill prohibits

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bill prohibit armed force academic institution department defense promote specify antiamerican racist theory eg race inherently superior inferior race specifically bill prohibit

This bill allows farmers, ranchers, and sole proprietors to retroactively recalculate their loans under the Paycheck Protection Program, established to support small businesses in response to COVID-19 (i.e., coronavirus disease 2019), based on gross income rather than net profits.

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bill allow farmer rancher sole proprietor retroactively recalculate loan paycheck protection program establish support small business response ie coronavirus disease base gross income net profit

Speeches, etc. The Welfare State in relation to the family, and the individual was the subject of a Talk by Mrs. Margaret Thatcher, MP, to members of the Finchley District Group of the League of Jewish Women at the Kinloss Gardens Synagogue Hall on Monday afternoon. It was necessary to emphasise, especially to young people, said Mrs. Thatcher that the State exists to help us discharge our responsibilies, not to discharge them for us. There was perhaps a tendency for youth in some quarters, to think that they would be continued to be looked after when the necessity no longer arose. There was no substitute for discharging one's own responsibilities and commitments. The Government made laws, but it could not compel people to be kind; it could punish cruelty to children, but it could not stop people being cruel. That was a personal responsibility—to be humane and tolerant one towards the other. We had reached a stage when we could say that we had finished, largely, with poverty; we could not yet say that we had solved the problem of hardship. How to do it without the State taking over too much and while still helping individuals to help themselves was the next step. “Nothing is ever the answer to anything” , said Mrs. Thatcher, referring to the value of compromise and to being tolerant, but never tolerant to wickedness. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc welfare state relation family individual subject talk mrs margaret thatcher mp member finchley district group league jewish woman kinloss gardens synagogue hall monday afternoon necessary emphasise especially young people say mrs thatcher state exist help discharge responsibilie discharge tendency youth quarter think continue look necessity long arise substitute discharge one responsibility commitment government law compel people kind punish cruelty child stop people cruel personal responsibility humane tolerant reach stage finish largely poverty solve problem hardship state take help individual help step answer say mrs thatcher refer value compromise tolerant tolerant wickedness copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Mrs. Thatcher Will the Leader of the House please state the business for next week? The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Edward Short) Yes, Sir. The business for next week will be as follows: Monday 28th July And Tuesday 29th July—Remaining stages of the Employment Protection Bill. Wednesday 30th July—Progress on Report stage of the Petroleum and Submarine Pipe-Lines Bill. [column 773] Thursday 31st July—Proceedings on the Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill. Friday 1st August—Remaining stages of the Criminal Jurisdiction Bill [Lords]. Motions to consider Northern Ireland orders on diseases of animals and the shipbuilding industry. Monday 4th August—Conclusion of remaining stages of the Petroleum and Submarine Pipe-Lines Bill. Consideration of Lords Amendments to the Housing Finance (Special Provisions) Bill. The House will wish to know that, subject to the progress of business, I hope to be able to propose that the House should rise for the Summer Recess no later than Friday, 8th August. In relation to tomorrow's business, I understand that it would be helpful to bring before the House, in addition to the documents already announced, the EEC Document on Wheat (R/1831/75). Mrs. Thatcher The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Remuneration, Charges and Grants Bill, which we are discussing today, is being pushed through with very great haste, bearing in mind that there are to be over 25 debates on the amendments tabled so far. Is it possible that we may continue with part of that Bill next week? May I ask whether we are to have a debate on the textile industry before we rise for the recess? Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether provision is to be made for us to debate the new Price Code before it takes effect? Mr. Short I agree that there are a number of complicated amendments tabled to the Bill which we are to discuss today. I think we ought to see how we get on and see where we are after we have gone on for a reasonable time. I am happy to say that, having listened to the exchanges yesterday, I hope to arrange a full day's debate on the textile industry before the Recess. The motion dealing with amendments to the Price Code requires parliamentary action through either affirmative or negative resolution. I will certainly see that there is an opportunity for a debate. Mr. Swain Will my right hon. Friend consider the possibility—so as to give the Opposition plenty of time to discuss the Remuneration, Charges and Grants Bill—of the House meeting on Saturday and Sunday if necessary? Since most Labour Members will not have any garden parties or other social functions to attend, it may be advisable to do this in the interests of getting the Bill through. Mr. Short I am sure that my hon. Friend and everyone else recognises the urgency and importance of this Bill. Because of that I hope that no one on either side of the House will impede its progress. Let us see how we get on before we commit ourselves to Saturday or Sunday sittings. Mr. Grimond Is the Leader of the House aware of the chaotic state of Government business? Is he further aware that he is in charge of it and that he has some responsibilities to the House in general? Does he realise that we sit, night after night, into the small hours of the morning—[Hon. Members: “Not you.” ]—and that this should not happen, however important the business may be? Does he appreciate that the reports of the proceedings of the House are not available before the sittings of Committees begin? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Scottish Grand Committee has so far met only twice and that many important reports will not be debated at all, while we are cluttered up with quite useless and indeed harmful legislation? May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to put off some of the Government's programme until next Session and, if necessary, make a statement on those lines to the House so that we may meet at reasonable times and give proper consideration to matters that are of importance to the nation? Mr. Short The right hon. Gentleman's description of our legislation staggers me. He ought to be sitting here, not there. I realise that the load of legislation has been unduly heavy. We have imposed a burden upon hon. Members over the past few weeks. Problems of this kind invariably occur in July. I hope that over the next few weeks the load will not be so great. Mrs. Renée Short May I ask my right hon. Friend when the House is to have a statement about the Cabinet's decision on support for NVT and when we are to [column 775]have an opportunity to debate that issue? Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of us are concerned about this? May I also ask my right hon. Friend when the remaining stages of the Sex Discrimination Bill will be taken? Mr. Short As my hon. Friend knows, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry is having discussions today with the people concerned with NVT. He will certainly be making a statement on the matter before the recess. Mr. Prior Does the right hon. Gentleman—— Mrs. Renée Short On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will the Leader of the House kindly reply to my second question? Mr. Short The Sex Discrimination Bill will certainly reach the statute book before the end of the Session. Mr. Prior Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that he is treating the House with grave discourtesy in connection with the Employment Protection Bill? Is he aware that the Bill came out of Committee on Tuesday and has not yet even been printed? Does he appreciate that 15 schedules were changed and a new schedule added? Is he aware that out of the 115 clauses, 100 have been changed and yet we do not have a completed Bill to consult before tabling fresh amendments? Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that this is no way in which to get decent legislation through the House? Will the Government accept manuscript amendments to the Bill? Is it not scandalous not to give the House a proper opportunity to consult outside interests before beginning the Report stage of an important Bill? Mr. Short Dealing with the business question, if there is a problem about it I shall certainly be happy to look at that suggestion and talk to the right hon. Gentleman about it. I have no knowledge of the issues raised by the right hon. Gentleman in the second part of his question. I will look into the matter. Mr. McNamara In the provisional arrangements announced last week, we were told that the Community Land Bill [column 776]would be taken on Monday. The Bill came out of Committee nicely and obviously has the full support of the country as a whole, particularly as it has the support and blessing of the TUC as part of the social contract. Arrangements have been made to satisfy the legitimate aspirations of the churches and the charities, so may we know when we are going to see the Bill and have it on the statute book? Mr. Short I agree with my hon. Friend about the support the Bill has throughout the country. Like the other Bill to which I have just referred, it will receive the Royal Assent before the end of the Session. Mr. Fell Can the right hon. Gentleman tell me when consideration will be given to the Lords Amendments to the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Amendment) Bill? Mr. Short Not next week, Sir. Mr. Molyneaux When may we expect a statement on the Porter Report on housing in Northern Ireland? Will the motion for the adjournment for the Summer Recess be moved next Tuesday? Mr. Short I hope the report will be published towards the end of next week. I provisionally propose to take the Adjournment debate on Thursday. Sir David Renton May I make a special plea to the right hon. Gentleman with regard to today's Bill? While realising that it is an important Bill which the Government want to get through by 1st August, may I ask whether he is aware that it contains a number of new constitional principles which are without precedent? A number of my hon. Friends have tabled amendments with a view to trying to improve the Bill, and does he realise that it will be quite intolerable if there is no interval between the Committee and Report stages? Can he give an undertaking that the House will not be placed in the impossible position of having to draft Report stage amendments in the early hours of the morning immediately following the conclusion of the Committee stage? Mr. Short This is an extremely urgent Bill to deal with a very serious and urgent national question. I am sure the [column 777]right hon. and learned Gentleman will wish to expedite its progress through the House. I will bear in mind what he says, because he always puts his points fairly. I realise that the Bill contains a number of new concepts and a number of controversial, complicated amendments. I will watch the progress of the Bill with my right hon. Friend and see how we get on. Mr. Loyden Will my right hon. Friend discuss with the Secretary of State for the Environment increases that have taken place in council house rents which do not appear to be in accord with the spirit or inentions of the Housing Rents and Subsidies Act? Mr. Short I will pass on my hon. Friend's points. Perhaps he will let me have any details that he has. Mr. Clegg Will the right hon. Gentleman consider extending the debate on textiles to include the boot and shoe industry, which is facing similar problems? I think they could conveniently be debated together. Mr. Short I would be happy to do that. Mr. Wigley Have the Government now abandoned the annual Welsh days? We have not had one for 16 months. Is it the Government's intention to have one before the beginning of the next Session? Can the right hon. Gentleman also give an indication of the date of recommencement of Parliament in the autumn? Mr. Short I cannot yet give that date, but I will do so before the recess. I hope to be able to find time for a Welsh day in the spill-over period in the autumn. Mr. Cryer Hon. Members on this side who represent constituencies that include parts of the textile industry are very grateful that time has been allocated for a debate on textiles. This is an urgent matter. Contrary to what hon. Members opposite have said, hon. Members on this side are ready to sit late into the night on the Employment Protection Bill to get this measure through. It is an important way of carrying out some of our policies. Mr. Goodhew It would be for the convenience of the House if the Lord President told us now that he will separate [column 778]the Committee and Report stages of today's Bill so that hon. Members know where they stand. Does he not understand that it is much more in the interests of good legislation to announce this now rather than to plough on into the night and decide what to do later? Mr. Short A moment's thought will show the hon. Gentleman that I cannot say that now. We shall watch the Bill's progress carefully, and if we think there is a need for a change, we will announce it. Mr. Flannery Has my right hon. Friend put aside a day for the debate he promised on the Finer Report? Mr. Short There will be a debate in the over-spill in the autumn. Mr. Speed Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that, apart from the constitutional points in today's business, there are extremely important matters relating to local government in Clause 4 of the Bill, and it would not be acceptable to local government or to most hon. Members if there was no separation between the Committee and Report stages? There is a Government amendment to Clause 4 and no doubt we shall find many loopholes later tonight. We must have this separation and it would be a help if the right hon. Gentleman gave his decision now. Mr. Short I understand the hon. Gentleman's point, but I know that he understands the extreme urgency of this measure and that we must get it through very quickly. I know that he and some of his hon. Friends will expedite the Bill on its way through the House. We shall watch the progress of the Bill through the night and see what can be done to help. Mr. Faulds The Under-Secretary nominally responsible for the Arts promised us a Public Lending Right Bill before last Christmas and as the right hon. Gentleman, when I questioned him three weeks ago, did not seem to have a clue about it, may I ask whether he has since cheked up—and when is the Bill to be introduced? Mr. Short The excellent Minister responsible for the Arts has been doing [column 779]a great deal of work on this matter. He has consulted many people to try to get the right solution to this difficult and complicated matter. The Bill will be brought forward before long and I hope that it will receive my hon. Friend's support. Mr. Peyton I welcome the assurance that there will be a debate on the Price Code amendments. Can the right hon. Gentleman assure us that there will be adequate time and that it will not be taken in the small hours of the morning? Can we be told whether the Community Land Bill is likely to make a re-appearance this side of the recess? When the right hon. Gentleman says that he will see how we go on today's business, will he not reconsider the point raised by a number of my hon. Friends that there should be a decent interval between the Committee and Report stages? Lastly, may I raise with the right hon. Gentleman a point made by my right hon. Friend about the Employment Protection Bill? I hope that he will at least initiate conversations through the usual channels to discuss the very unusual and discreditable situation of this Bill. Mr. Short I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman's last remarks. It is not discreditable. We would be very happy to have talks through the usual channels about the Bill, if that is his wish. I appreciate the point that he has made about today's Bill, but this is a matter of unusual urgency and importance to deal with a very serious and dangerous national situation. In these circumstances, the House has very often felt able to waive the normal intervals between stages of a Bill, and I am sure that it would be willing to do so on this occasion, if necessary. However, I have taken his point and will bear it in mind. We shall do our utmost—and I am sure that we shall succeed—to get this Bill on the statute book before the end of the Session. [Hon. Members: “Next week?” ] I have already announced business for next week, if hon. Members had been listening. We are rather in the hands of the Scrutiny Committee as to the timing of the proceedings on the Price Code orders, [column 780]but I understand that three orders will be needed, one to be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure, one to the negative resolution procedure and one not requiring any parliamentary action. I will bear in mind what the hon. Member said and what the Leader of the Opposition said on this matter. Later—— Mr. Peyton On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The Leader of the House helpfully said during his business Statement that he would consider and discuss through the usual channels certain matters which were raised. I wonder if this would be a convenient time for him to say something further on that matter. Mr. Short It is very unusual to make a second Business Statement half an hour after the first one, but strong representations were made to me about the Report stage of the Remuneration, Charges and Grants Bill. Discussions have taken place through the usual channels, and I wish to re-arrange the business so that on Monday we take the Petroleum and Submarine Pipe-Lines Bill, remaining stages, continuing with that on Tuesday until 7 o'clock when the guillotine falls. At 7 p.m. on Tuesday, we take the Report and Third Reading of the Remuneration, Charges and Grants Bill and on Wednesday the Employment Protection Bill. I hope that it will be for the convenience of the House that we have separated the Report stage from the Committee stage of the Remuneration, Charges and Grants Bill. Mr. Peyton Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Governments, I know, never give Oppositions all they want, but I should like to thank the Lord President and the Patronage Secretary for their help on this occasion, which will greatly assist our consideration of the Bill. Mr. Rost Further to the second business statement made by the Leader of the House, a short time ago I checked in the Vote Office to see whether Government amendments to the Petroleum and Submarine Pipe-Lines Bill had been tabled, but I was advised that they were not yet on the Order Paper. As the Leader of the House has now changed [column 781]the business so that the Report stage of the Bill is to be on Monday, will he advise us whether the Government amendments are tabled and, if so, why we have not vet been able to see them. Mr. Short I do not know whether or not they are tabled. I will look into it. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mrs thatcher leader house state business week lord president council leader house commons mr edward short yes sir business week follow monday july tuesday july remain stage employment protection bill wednesday july progress report stage petroleum submarine pipeline bill column thursday july proceeding consolidated fund appropriation bill friday august remain stage criminal jurisdiction bill lord motion consider northern ireland order disease animal shipbuilding industry monday august conclusion remain stage petroleum submarine pipeline bill consideration lord amendment housing finance special provision bill house wish know subject progress business hope able propose house rise summer recess later friday august relation tomorrow business understand helpful bring house addition document announce eec document wheat mrs thatcher right hon gentleman aware remuneration charge grant bill discuss today push great haste bear mind debate amendment table far possible continue bill week ask debate textile industry rise recess right hon gentleman provision debate new price code take effect mr short agree number complicated amendment table bill discuss today think ought go reasonable time happy having listen exchange yesterday hope arrange day debate textile industry recess motion deal amendment price code require parliamentary action affirmative negative resolution certainly opportunity debate mr swain right hon friend consider possibility opposition plenty time discuss remuneration charge grant bill house meeting saturday sunday necessary labour member garden party social function attend advisable interest get bill mr short sure hon friend recognise urgency importance bill hope house impede progress let commit saturday sunday sitting mr grimond leader house aware chaotic state government business aware charge responsibility house general realise sit night night small hour morning hon member happen important business appreciate report proceeding house available sitting committee begin right hon gentleman aware scottish grand committee far meet twice important report debate cluttered useless harmful legislation ask right hon gentleman government programme session necessary statement line house meet reasonable time proper consideration matter importance nation mr short right hon gentleman description legislation stagger ought sit realise load legislation unduly heavy impose burden hon member past week problem kind invariably occur july hope week load great mrs renée short ask right hon friend house statement cabinet decision support nvt column opportunity debate issue right hon friend aware concerned ask right hon friend remain stage sex discrimination bill take mr short hon friend know right hon friend secretary state industry have discussion today people concern nvt certainly make statement matter recess mr prior right hon gentleman mrs renée short point order mr speaker leader house kindly reply second question mr short sex discrimination bill certainly reach statute book end session mr prior right hon gentleman recognise treat house grave discourtesy connection employment protection bill aware bill come committee tuesday print appreciate schedule change new schedule add aware clause change complete bill consult table fresh amendment right hon gentleman realise way decent legislation house government accept manuscript amendment bill scandalous house proper opportunity consult outside interest begin report stage important bill mr short dealing business question problem shall certainly happy look suggestion talk right hon gentleman knowledge issue raise right hon gentleman second question look matter mr mcnamara provisional arrangement announce week tell community land bill column take monday bill come committee nicely obviously support country particularly support blessing tuc social contract arrangement satisfy legitimate aspiration church charity know go bill statute book mr short agree hon friend support bill country like bill refer receive royal assent end session mr fall right hon gentleman tell consideration give lord amendment trade union labour relation amendment bill mr short week sir mr molyneaux expect statement porter report housing northern ireland motion adjournment summer recess move tuesday mr short hope report publish end week provisionally propose adjournment debate thursday sir david renton special plea right hon gentleman regard today bill realise important bill government want august ask aware contain number new constitional principle precedent number hon friend table amendment view try improve bill realise intolerable interval committee report stage undertaking house place impossible position have draft report stage amendment early hour morning immediately follow conclusion committee stage mr short extremely urgent bill deal urgent national question sure column hon learn gentleman wish expedite progress house bear mind say put point fairly realise bill contain number new concept number controversial complicated amendment watch progress bill right hon friend mr loyden right hon friend discuss secretary state environment increase take place council house rent appear accord spirit inention housing rent subsidy act mr short pass hon friend point let detail mr clegg right hon gentleman consider extend debate textile include boot shoe industry face similar problem think conveniently debate mr short happy mr wigley government abandon annual welsh day month government intention beginning session right hon gentleman indication date recommencement parliament autumn mr short date recess hope able find time welsh day spillover period autumn mr cryer hon member represent constituency include part textile industry grateful time allocate debate textile urgent matter contrary hon member opposite say hon member ready sit late night employment protection bill measure important way carry policy mr goodhew convenience house lord president tell separate column committee report stage today bill hon member know stand understand interest good legislation announce plough night decide later mr short moment thought hon gentleman shall watch bill progress carefully think need change announce mr flannery right hon friend aside day debate promise finer report mr short debate overspill autumn mr speed right hon gentleman realise apart constitutional point today business extremely important matter relate local government clause bill acceptable local government hon member separation committee report stage government amendment clause doubt shall find loophole later tonight separation help right hon gentleman give decision mr short understand hon gentleman point know understand extreme urgency measure quickly know hon friend expedite bill way house shall watch progress bill night help mr fauld undersecretary nominally responsible art promise public lending right bill christmas right hon gentleman question week ago clue ask cheke bill introduce mr short excellent minister responsible art column great deal work matter consult people try right solution difficult complicated matter bill bring forward long hope receive hon friend support mr peyton welcome assurance debate price code amendment right hon gentleman assure adequate time take small hour morning tell community land bill likely reappearance recess right hon gentleman say today business reconsider point raise number hon friend decent interval committee report stage lastly raise right hon gentleman point right hon friend employment protection bill hope initiate conversation usual channel discuss unusual discreditable situation bill mr short agree right hon gentleman remark discreditable happy talk usual channel bill wish appreciate point today bill matter unusual urgency importance deal dangerous national situation circumstance house feel able waive normal interval stage bill sure willing occasion necessary take point bear mind shall utmost sure shall succeed bill statute book end session hon member week announce business week hon member listen hand scrutiny committee timing proceeding price code order column understand order need subject affirmative resolution procedure negative resolution procedure require parliamentary action bear mind hon member say leader opposition say matter later mr peyton point order mr deputy speaker leader house helpfully say business statement consider discuss usual channel certain matter raise wonder convenient time matter mr short unusual second business statement half hour strong representation report stage remuneration charge grant bill discussion take place usual channel wish rearrange business monday petroleum submarine pipeline bill remain stage continue tuesday oclock guillotine fall pm tuesday report reading remuneration charge grant bill wednesday employment protection bill hope convenience house separate report stage committee stage remuneration charge grant bill mr peyton point order mr deputy speaker government know opposition want like thank lord president patronage secretary help occasion greatly assist consideration bill mr rost second business statement leader house short time ago check vote office government amendment petroleum submarine pipeline bill table advise order paper leader house change column business report stage bill monday advise government amendment table vet able mr short know table look copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Prime Minister Ladies and Gentlemen of the Press, As you know, the talks that we have had yesterday and today are part of a continuing series of bilateral talks, so it is not that we come together when there are great pronouncements to make; it is that we carry on year after year having these talks so that we may the better understand one another's viewpoint, and may be the more effective, not only in Anglo-German relations but in the European Economic Community and NATO and in any other groups of which we are both a part. So it is not that we have special pronouncements to make; it is part of continuing understanding between our two countries. As you know, there are no bilateral problems between Great Britain and Germany, so we had no particular problems to talk about. We therefore spent a great deal of time talking about the larger world scene, in particular the problems which have arisen in East-West relationships after the Afghanistan troubles; and last night, Chancellor Schmidt and myself and the two Lord Carrington & Hans-Dietrich GenscherForeign Secrataries spent a lot of time discussing those matters—indeed, we stayed up until nearly 2 o'clock in the morning discussing. I mention it because, really, the understanding was very great and the agreement was very great and so we went on talking well into the night. [end p1] This morning, Chancellor Schmidt and I had what are called “tête-á-tête” talks and we concentrated for quite a long time on Great Britain's budgetary problems in the EEC and other problems which also affect the EEC which will also have to be solved. We are both very conscious indeed that until we get some of these particular problems solved, the EEC itself will not be anything like as effective as a unit as it could be; and with a world very much troubled by greater problems, we are both anxious that the outstanding problems, including very much Britain's budgetary problem, should be solved. We have three weeks or so between now and the next Summit and we are concerned that they should be used to maximum advantage to see if we can achieve a settlement. After that, we were joined again by other Ministers and had wider talks, again on the wide East-West problem. I know that you will be interested in the Moscow Olympics, but I must tell you we did not in fact spend a long time on those; indeed, a very short time, because the Chancellor has made his position clear to the Bundestag and we have already had a debate upon it in Parliament. We were also very concerned to hear of the tragedy affecting the oil rig on the Norwegian side in the North Sea and we have sent a joint message to the Norwegian Prime Minister indicating our sympathy and very great concern. So, no special particular pronouncements; just continuing good will; very great friendliness, very great understanding, very great desire on the part of us both to really deal with Britain's budgetary problem in the EEC and other outstanding matters in the EEC so that as a unit we can be the more effective and more influential in the wider world. [end p2] I should perhaps just mention one more thing. We are very much aware that we are both part of the Western Alliance and the Western World and the future of our way of life depends upon Europe and the United States always keeping together, always consulting, always going forward together, and that, of course, is never far from our minds. I understand that we are honoured to have a lot of the German Press with us and I am sure you would first like to question the Chancellor. I, of course, shall answer questions which you put to me. Your questions, gentlemen, please! [end p3] Question (Michael Brunson, ITN) Could I ask the Chancellor, did you and the Prime Minister discuss the idea of a special fund which might be set up by the Common Market under, I believe, Article 235 of the Treaty? This is the Commission's idea of a special fund which could be used to help Britain. Do you think that is perhaps a way forward out of Britain's budgetary problem? Chancellor Schmidt We did not especially consider such a fund idea. What we did do in that respect was that we in a very broad sense investigated field-by-field what on the whole had to be done in order to bring about compromises. I will now use my language, which is not necessarily the language of a Prime Minister. My feeling is that both the Prime Minister and I having the benefit of questioning and listening to answers of the other side, have probably understood even a little better—if it was possible to improve—than before the pressing necessities and concerns which the British Government, the British Prime Minister, has to take care of which, let us say, the Germans or the French or the Dutch or the Danish, Irish, Italian, Belgian, Luxembourg people have to concern themselves with. We are a Community of Nine and not a Community of Two. We could solve the problems between the two of us, I have the feeling. We tried to put ourselves into the shoes of all the nine countries in order to increase our understanding of the situation. My personal feeling is that a solution is possible to the question of British transfers, net transfers, to the Community if other questions to the Community at the same time are also being solved that are pending since long like mutton, like fishery and other things as well. [end p4] It is obvious that the rather great amount which the British economy and the British budget are netwise paying into EEC have to be diminished and it is also obvious that this diminishing of British burdens means enlarging the burdens of others. Now Germany—as regards the eight others—is in a unique position, insofar as we are the only net contributor besides England; a little less now than England in 1980, but have been the largest contributor for a long sequence of years, so we are in a little better position—and we are not being blamed by Mrs. Thatcher—a little better position than the rest of the EEC countries, but we understand how difficult the problem is, for instance, for a smaller country like Denmark; the problem is as great as it is for Britain or as it would be for us to enlarge the financial burden on our shoulders if compared with the past. This being my chance for answering the first question, I would like to add one or two thoughts which you have not asked for. Number one: I would like to thank publicly, Mrs. Thatcher, for her hospitality; especially would I like to express my envy about the institution which is called Chequers! It provides such as a nice casual atmosphere, in which people can talk and listen to each other in an informal way. I liked it very much, especially the fact that I was invited to add a little; a handful of earth, planting a pink chestnut tree in the park of Chequers. I hope that will get on, provided you have enough rain in Britain! I would also like to mention a few of the subjects which we have been dealing with, while fully subscribing to what the Prime Minister has mentioned to you already—I would like to mention some of the subject which we have been dealing with, except the already-mentioned problems, especially within the EEC. [end p5] As the Prime Minister has pointed out, quite a great part of our time was devoted to the matters which are now under European-American consultation and both of us had—if I may say so, Margaret—the rather enjoyable impression that we were looking upon many of the things under the same aspects, saw them eye-to-eye, including Lord Peter Carrington and including Herr Genscher. I would like to mention this was a very fruitful conversation, if I am permitted to judge. It included, of course, the situation in and around Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Red China, the Soviet Union of course; it did include, of course, Iran; it did include Turkey, the Middle East complexities. We are talking about the Gulf region as such, other Near East questions. We were also devoting some time on the recent development in the southern part of Africa and I took the opportunity to congratulate again the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, Peter Carrington, as regards this enormous success that Britain has won in bringing about a constitutional change in Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia, and regarding the positively prejudicing effect that will have on the whole continent and it will also have on the role of the Western industrialized countries within the Third World, within the non-aligned world. We did use some of the time for dealing and exchanging views of the requirements of the non-aligned world, the Third World, but also of course we did deal with the joint security problems of the West at some length. The Prime Minister and I are agreed that we are not going to disclose any of the details to you, so do not nurture any hopes of getting us to go into depth in answering your inquisitive questions! I would like to sum it all up that both regarding the EEC problems as well as regarding the wider range of international problems, there was [end p6] a gratifying degree of understanding, of agreement. We have not come to the end of the day, because the Prime Minister as well as I myself have to make a little speech, both of us, at a meeting of the Königswinter … . in Cambridge. I think that is about the 25th anniversary … . could that be right … . or the 30th? Prime Minister 30th, yes. Chancellor Schmidt (contd.) … . 30 even! When I was a young parliamentarian, I took part in these meetings in Königswinter in the early 1950's—yes, it ought to be 30 years! It was a great institution. I look back to that with great thankfulness. I was 34 years of age when I first came to Parliament 27 years ago and this was about the first occasion which I was given to internationally meet politicians, members of Parliament from one other country, from a country that had won the War; it had delegates from a country that had started as well as lost the War. So I have been a frequent participant at these Königswinter meetings for a couple of years. Later on when one came to office, one could not participate any longer, but I think it has done a marvellous job for letting the Germans understand how other nations in Europe look at Germany; how other people in Europe look at other international problems; and I think it also has done a good job in making our British partners, our British friends, understand the problems which we had at that time to build up almost from scratch. Our society, our constitution, our economy, our state—and they have been very helpful all over the time—I have really liked the idea to have a chance this afternoon to pay tribute [end p7] to this great job they have done at Königswinter. I do not know whether one of the great English figures of the early meetings still is alive, Headmaster of Balliol at the time, Robert Burleigh (phon.). I remember him. He is very vivid in my memory. I am mentioning this because I do not feel that there is any chance for our speeches tonight to be translated into the press of tomorrow—it will be too late! I beg your pardon for this too long answer to a rather short question. Prime Minister No. Look, the fault was mine for not asking you to make a statement at the beginning. Question Chancellor, I wonder if you could expand a little bit on the reply you gave just now about the EEC budget, and can you tell us in particular … you said that you understand Britain's problems. Do you sympathise with them and what sort of compromise do you think might be possible and may I also expand that to include you, Prime Minister, and ask you whether …? Prime Minister You will leave a little time over, won't you, for the Press, yes? Chancellor Schmidt I think the solution lies in a package which would include the financial and budgetary aspects which would have to include the guidelines [end p8] for a limitation of the hitherto rather unlimited growth of agricultural outlay by the Community; it ought to be brought into proportion with the growth of the other aggregate figures of the Community, especially with the aggregate figures of GNP of the nine countries together. It ought to comprise, I think—and here possibly we might differ a bit as regards the timing—it ought to comprise fishery; I think it ought to comprise mutton, in which we do not have anything at stake as Germans. It may have to comprise a first step into a joint energy policy. To sum it all up: the question is soluble, the complexities which have piled up over so many years altogether are soluble if anybody is aware of the fact that what we are seeking is a compromise that is working, workable, functionable, but at the same time satisfying nobody—dissatisfying anybody to the same degree. Prime Minister Can I just add to that? I think it is quite clear from the several documents that have been circulating from the Commission that the method is there. It is a method which is in tune with all the Community rules. The difficulty is to attach precise figures to the method. There are three parts to the method: the one, slightly to cut down Britain's contributions, and that was really what we agreed at Dublin. That was that part, on a previous financial mechanism suitably adapted. The second one—and the one that would bring more receipts back into Britain—is a special way in which more Community money could be spent in Britain, although on projects broadly in line with Community [end p9] thinking. It is quite clear that there are plenty of those and it is not a question of the method—it is a question of attaching figures and the will to do it. And the third part is the one which the Chancellor has specifically drawn attention to. The problem would never have arisen in quite such an acute form if it had not been for the fact that the Common Agricultural Policy takes a much much much larger proportion of the budget than was ever intended and quite a goodly part of that budget goes to building up surpluses—and that is why the third part of the communique from Dublin said that in the longer term we will have to deal with this problem and that, of course, is very much in accord with what the Chancellor has said: that the Common Agricultural Policy cannot go on taking an ever larger proportion either of the budget or of the gross national product of the Community. So there is no problem about the method. No-one can say: to solve Britain's problem requires being non-Communautaire. That is not so. The method is there; it is a question now of attaching specific figures from specific countries to build up the sort of total that would give us a solution to the problem. There are of course other problems. We go steadily on with fish. The fish negotiations, I think, have been proceeding albeit very slowly, but they have been proceeding between the agricultural Ministers. As you know, we have not yet got a solution to the lamb-mutton problem. As far as energy is concerned, I do not think it is generally realized that already a half our exports from the North Sea go into the Community and of the amount that goes into the Community a half itself goes into Germany. So 25%; of all our exports of oil and gas in the North Sea actually go to Germany. So we have reason for a close relationship there. [end p10] John Deakin (Daily Mail) May I ask you, Prime Minister, if you share the Chancellor's conviction that a solution is possible; and secondly, that it will be found in a package? Prime Minister I share the Chancellor's conviction that a solution is possible. I think that there are several other things that will also have to be solved. I think each of them will have to be solved on the merits of its own case, but we must of course proceed apace with solving those things as well. Have you got the point? Things might come along all together; but each must be solved, I think, on their own merits. Otherwise, it just would not be fair. Question (Financial Times) Prime Minister, could I address a question to the Chancellor and possibly have a comment from you on his reply? Prime Minister I do not know whether you will get that; you might get a separate answer. Question One of the elements—we may not call it a package—but it has been suggested on the German side that it would be helpful if the United Kingdom gave some sort of commitment of renewed interest in joining the European Monetary System, to accompany this overall negotiation. I wonder if [end p11] Chancellor Schmidt would say whether he still feels that would be a good idea; and secondly, what it is he is looking for on the energy front from Britain in particular. Chancellor Schmidt I would like to remind ladies and gentlemen of the fact that Britain has a standing invitation for the EMS, for the European Monetary System and it is a historic fact that from the very beginning I was very much arguing in favour of Britain's participation from the very beginning. Britain had her reasons at that time. It was in the last months of the previous Administration; it was Jim Callaghan and Denis Healey at the time; they had their reasons for not joining the EMS at that time. It is up to the British Government to make up their minds when they think the time is ripe. As regards energy policy. There is not a specific German interest in that. There is also no specific German interest in limiting the further growth of agricultural outlay. I say this as a member of the Community since its very beginning 23 years ago. Being an economist and an administrator, I understand that this cannot go on for ever; that the agricultural outlay cannot for ever grow quicker than does the economy of the EEC grow. Therefore, I know that this has to be corrected in the sense of limitation. I know that all the nine agricultural ministers and the agricultural corporations in all the nine countries will have grave misgivings about any attempt of reforming it to the effect of limitation, but I think it has to be done. And this is a good moment to lay down the principles for how it ought to be done, because one sees that the financial gap cannot be [end p12] closed in the medium or long run without limitation of the agricultural outlay, so it is a good occasion to have this done. One should not be misled into thinking that, for instance, we could do away with the whole system of agricultural policy as such. We shall certainly have to maintain the principles of Community preferences, of common financing, of common price levels; but, on the other hand, we have to limit the amount of subsidizing in agriculture in all of our countries. As regards energy, it is a parallel situation. There is no specific German interest in energy. There is no specific German request to make to anybody—neither to Britain, nor to Holland, nor to Denmark, nor to anybody else. But as an economist and as an administrator and as somebody who does foresee what is going to happen in the world energy markets in the next decade or in the next five years—I am not going to make any predictions about the figures of the oil price per barrel under such and such political circumstances which one could speculate about—it is obvious that EEC does need a common energy policy and just in the interests of the future cohesion of the nine economies, the future cohesion of the nine governments—whoever it is at the time when the energy crunch really comes … . we have not seen the ultimate crunch so far—in order to be ready at such a time to respond in a way that does not break some of the European economies. I think we ought to be starting to think about a common energy policy. This, again, is not a bilateral question between Britain and Germany or between the British Prime Minister and the German Chancellor. It is just one of the many questions which we have been exchanging our thoughts about in the light of the Community's interests as a whole. [end p13] Prime Minister You wanted a supplementary comment from me about the EMS. I think we would like to join when the time is ripe, and you will say why isn't the time ripe now? I think if you look at it, you will find that we have been above the limit twice comparatively recently for reasons which you will know, and had we belonged, even on a 6%; limit, we would then have had to put money in to hold the rate down, and as you know, putting money into hold the rate down in fact means that you increase your money supply. We would like first to be able to show over quite a period of time that we can effectively control our money supply within the margins which we have just set for it. In the last four months, it has come within the range. The range we have set now is 7%; to 11%; but in the last four months we have been able to keep the underlying rate at 10%;. It is quite an achievement, but at the moment in our tremendous battle against inflation, we do think that the main thing is to keep the money supply within the ranges. When we have got the economy under better control and proved that we can do it, then I think we will be in a very much better position to join the EMS and then, of course, we would have to consider what the range should be; whether it would be a narrower or a wider range than the one that is customary at the moment. Question There is a growing feeling inside Britain that the United Kingdom might be better off outside the Common Market altogether, following the experiences in the last few years. Have you any comment on the difference this would make a) to the Common Market and b) to Britain? [end p14] Chancellor Schmidt In the first instance, in case you are right about the growing feeling that you were quoting, I could only deplore this—not so much from the depth of my heart, but I deplore it for the political consequences to which this might lead. Nothing is more required right now—and if you look to the world political development as a whole—than cohesion and unity among the countries of the industrialized democracies of the West and fragmenting existing entities in the West, combinations of states, is certainly detrimental to what the West does need right now. On top of it, I do not believe that even in the medium run, neither economically nor politically, such a move would serve Britain. It would certainly not serve the weight of the Community in the Western World and the world at large—that is obvious—but I think it would also detract from the weight of Britain. In the very short run, one might think that it had some financial advantages. They might be outlived, but in a sequence of months only, and the repercussions in other fields will be greater by far than the financial reliefs which one might feel in the first instance. It would certainly lead, for instance, to putting up tariff walls against each other in the first instance, plus, plus, plus. It is not a specific German interest I am defining here; it is a worldwide interest I am defending. Prime Minister You know my views on this. I am not sure whether you are asking for a supplementary reply, but you are going to get one! You know my views on this: that really, the free world, free Europe, must demonstrate that the countries of free Europe can stick [end p15] together politically in the European Economic Committee and alongside that we have to solve the problems which affect particular members of that Community. So quite the best course for Britain is to continue to be a loyal member of the European Economic Community and at the same time to see that, along with our partners, our problems are solved and are given a just solution and likewise, if other partners have problems, to contribute to the solution of their problems. That is what being a partnership means. If there were any question of our coming out or the EEC flying apart, it would do the whole of the cause of the Free World immense damage, and therefore do damage to each and every separate member. Question Prime Minister, after the apparent rapport that you appear to have developed afresh with the Chancellor, you are now looking forward to the postponed Summit with much greater happiness and confidence than you were? Is that a fair impression to have got? Prime Minister I think that the time we have gained may, if we use it properly, turn out to be very helpful—provided we use it constructively. Therefore, perhaps the apprehension is diminished a little. I think that would be right, wouldn't it? Chancellor Schmidt Well, Margaret, I did not understand the question at all. I understood the gist of it only by your answer! [end p16] Prime Minister He said was I looking forward with very much greater happiness now to the Summit towards the end of April … . than I would have been … Chancellor Schmidt Very much greater happiness! Prime Minister … towards the end of March, and I have just said … you know, I am always very cautious in my replies—it is part of my nature—a good deal less apprehension, because we have talked and talked round it, and spent a long time talking round the problems in an atmosphere, really, of very very great good will. I believe much more now that a solution is genuinely possible than I did perhaps a few weeks ago. Chancellor Schmidt I would subscribe to the answer of the Prime Minister. Prime Minister And in an atmosphere of good will. Question Could I ask a follow-up question to that please? Prime Minister Yes, and then we really must have our German Press, yes. [end p17] Keith Richardson ( “Sunday Times” ) Really to the Chancellor. This feast of good will that you have had. Could one say that the good will between Germany and Britain is now as close and as strong as the good will between Germany and France? And in that case, what on earth can either of you do to patch up the alarming ill-will between Britain and France which seems to be growing very strongly at this moment? Chancellor Schmidt If there is any ill will between Britain and France, it is none of Germany's business to deal with either British or French business. If this ill will does exist, Germany does not have the intention, neither institutionally as regards the German Government or Parliament nor as regards the German public or published opinion, to act as a mediator or something. You both have ambassadors in Paris and in London. You visit each other. You are reading the French press; they are reading the British press. I think that in any country of the EEC there is an everlasting tendency, in any Parliament—from Sicily up to Jutland—and in any public opinion, to look at oncoming decisions which have to be taken within EEC or to look at decisions which have been taken yesterday night in Brussels in the light of seeming national interest. This is natural; it will last for another generation or two. On the other hand, one should very willingly and intentionally create a counterweight against that national attitude. One should create an attitude of asking, criticising, commenting, evaluating oncoming decisions or taken decisions in the light of what is best for the entity as a whole—what is best in the interests of Europe as a whole—what is best in the interest of [end p18] the world's economy, of the Western world's economy, as a whole; what is best in the interests of the West as a whole vis-a-vis the Soviet orbit. And I think all of us, whether in the political realm or in the journalistic sphere, have to educate ourselves to use these yardsticks at least to the same degree as national yardsticks are being used. Prime Minister When you ask a good question, you get an even better answer! Now, have we got any of our German guests here, because you have been very quiet! Question Mrs. Thatcher, how far apart are the points of view of you and the Chancellor concerning Ostpolitik at present, or did you agree on the whole situation concerning the Soviet Union? Prime Minister In general, we agreed on the whole situation concerning the Soviet Union and East-West relations. We agree on the importance of keeping Europe and the United States together and in concerting our response to any problems that may emerge. And we also agree that whatever the present difficulties—and they are enormous, because the invasion of Afghanistan was a totally new factor—but whatever those problems we still—both the West and the East—have to strive to live in the same world together, and what we are anxious to do is to secure the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan so that once again we may try on a renewed basis of detente and you know that I interpret detente as full [end p19] reciprocation. It is a two-way business to live together in the same world on a better basis. So we have really got the two things to balance: the total and united resolve of the West to defend our way of life and secondly, the wish to get troops back from Afghanistan into Soviet Russia so that once again we may live together in a world—although we have differing philosophies—we may live and start a much better basis of cooperation again in the world together. Edwin Roth ( “Tagespiegel” , West Berlin) I will move away for one moment from Europe. You discussed the Middle East, didn't you. You said you discussed the Middle East. Prime Minister We could not not have discussed the Middle East. Edwin Roth Now! From a western point of view, strictly western point of view, the Palestine Liberation Organization has agreed to the … . and welcomed the invasion of Afghanistan and has given the utmost help to the Ayotollah Khomeini over the American hostages. Is it in the interests of the West to back up an organization which agrees with the invasion of Afghanistan and gives support to the holding of the American hostages as its leader has done? In this in the Western interest? The changing of Resolution 242 and all that? [end p20] Chancellor Schmidt Well, I do not see that the British Government nor the German Government has given a boost to the PLO. What my Government has been saying—and I do not see that there is a great gap between us and our British friends or any other friends in the West—is that the ultimate solution or the comprehensive peace which is being looked for, which is being sought after, has to comprise as well the rights of the Palestinians as well as the rights of the state of Israel to exist in secure borders. Speaking as a German, I have always interpreted the determinology right of the Palestinians as a right to self-determination, because if I am striving for the right of self-determination of the German people I cannot tell the rest of the world that this is just for the German nation and not for others. This has been our attitude since a couple of years. There is nothing new about it. We have not taken a new move in the last couple of days or weeks or months even, and I am very concerned that the ongoing negotiations between President Anwar Sadat and Prime Minister Begin on the so-called autonomy on the West Bank should make progress. We are approaching the time limit now. But this has, so far, nothing to do with any promotion of the PLO. Prime Minister I do not think there is anything that I can add. You know that my views are that the problem is to get the two things occurring simultaneously. One, the right of the Palestinian people to determine their own future and simultaneously to get them to recognize the right of Israel to stay as Israel and to live within secure and defined borders, and I do not think that position has changed. Indeed, in a way, I wish [end p21] those two things had moved forward together—but they have not. Question Do you think you will ever get the PLO to recognize them? Prime Minister In politics, you never give up hope and you actively work for the things you hope to bring about. I must tell you, he practically won the election for me. He attended practically every press conference. Chancellor Schmidt And you never say “never” . Prime Minister Thank you very much indeed. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc prime minister lady gentleman press know talk yesterday today continue series bilateral talk come great pronouncement carry year year have talk well understand another viewpoint effective anglogerman relation european economic community nato group special pronouncement continue understanding country know bilateral problem great britain germany particular problem talk spend great deal time talk large world scene particular problem arise eastwest relationship afghanistan trouble night chancellor schmidt lord carrington hansdietrich genscherforeign secratarie spend lot time discuss matter stay nearly oclock morning discuss mention understanding great agreement great go talk night end morning chancellor schmidt call têteátête talk concentrate long time great britain budgetary problem eec problem affect eec solve conscious particular problem solve eec like effective unit world trouble great problem anxious outstanding problem include britain budgetary problem solve week summit concerned maximum advantage achieve settlement join minister wide talk wide eastwest problem know interested moscow olympics tell fact spend long time short time chancellor position clear bundestag debate parliament concerned hear tragedy affect oil rig norwegian north sea send joint message norwegian prime minister indicate sympathy great concern special particular pronouncement continue good great friendliness great understanding great desire deal britain budgetary problem eec outstanding matter eec unit effective influential wide world end mention thing aware western alliance western world future way life depend europe united states keep consulting go forward course far mind understand honour lot german press sure like question chancellor course shall answer question question gentleman end question michael brunson itn ask chancellor prime minister discuss idea special fund set common market believe article treaty commission idea special fund help britain think way forward britain budgetary problem chancellor schmidt especially consider fund idea respect broad sense investigate fieldbyfield order bring compromise use language necessarily language prime minister feeling prime minister have benefit questioning listen answer probably understand little well possible improve press necessity concern british government british prime minister care let germans french dutch danish irish italian belgian luxembourg people concern community community solve problem feeling try shoe country order increase understanding situation personal feeling solution possible question british transfer net transfer community question community time solve pende long like mutton like fishery thing end obvious great british economy british budget netwise pay eec diminish obvious diminishing british burden mean enlarge burden germany regard unique position insofar net contributor england little england large contributor long sequence year little well position blame mrs thatcher little well position rest eec country understand difficult problem instance small country like denmark problem great britain enlarge financial burden shoulder compare past chance answer question like add thought ask number like thank publicly mrs thatcher hospitality especially like express envy institution call chequer provide nice casual atmosphere people talk listen informal way like especially fact invite add little handful earth plant pink chestnut tree park chequer hope provide rain britain like mention subject deal fully subscribe prime minister mention like mention subject deal alreadymentione problem especially eec end prime minister point great time devoted matter europeanamerican consultation margaret enjoyable impression look thing aspect see eyetoeye include lord peter carrington include herr genscher like mention fruitful conversation permit judge include course situation afghanistan pakistan india red china soviet union course include course iran include turkey middle east complexity talk gulf region near east question devote time recent development southern africa take opportunity congratulate prime minister foreign secretary peter carrington regard enormous success britain win bring constitutional change zimbabwe rhodesia positively prejudice effect continent role western industrialize country world nonaligned world use time deal exchange view requirement nonaligned world world course deal joint security problem west length prime minister agree go disclose detail nurture hope get depth answer inquisitive question like sum eec problem wide range international problem end gratifying degree understanding agreement come end day prime minister little speech meeting königswinter cambridge think anniversary right prime minister yes chancellor schmidt contd young parliamentarian take meeting königswinter early yes ought year great institution look great thankfulness year age come parliament year ago occasion give internationally meet politician member parliament country country win war delegate country start lose war frequent participant königswinter meeting couple year later come office participate long think marvellous job let germans understand nation europe look germany people europe look international problem think good job make british partner british friend understand problem time build scratch society constitution economy state helpful time like idea chance afternoon pay tribute end great job königswinter know great english figure early meeting alive headmaster balliol time robert burleigh phon remember vivid memory mention feel chance speech tonight translate press tomorrow late beg pardon long answer short question prime minister look fault ask statement beginning question chancellor wonder expand little bit reply give eec budget tell particular say understand britain problem sympathise sort compromise think possible expand include prime minister ask prime minister leave little time will not press yes chancellor schmidt think solution lie package include financial budgetary aspect include guideline end limitation hitherto unlimited growth agricultural outlay community ought bring proportion growth aggregate figure community especially aggregate figure gnp country ought comprise think possibly differ bit regard timing ought comprise fishery think ought comprise mutton stake germans comprise step joint energy policy sum question soluble complexity pile year altogether soluble anybody aware fact seek compromise work workable functionable time satisfy dissatisfy anybody degree prime minister add think clear document circulate commission method method tune community rule difficulty attach precise figure method part method slightly cut britain contribution agree dublin previous financial mechanism suitably adapt second bring receipt britain special way community money spend britain project broadly line community end think clear plenty question method question attach figure chancellor specifically draw attention problem arise acute form fact common agricultural policy take large proportion budget intend goodly budget go build surplus communique dublin say long term deal problem course accord chancellor say common agricultural policy take large proportion budget gross national product community problem method solve britain problem require noncommunautaire method question attach specific figure specific country build sort total solution problem course problem steadily fish fish negotiation think proceed albeit slowly proceed agricultural minister know get solution lambmutton problem far energy concern think generally realize half export north sea community go community half go germany export oil gas north sea actually germany reason close relationship end john deakin daily mail ask prime minister share chancellor conviction solution possible secondly find package prime minister share chancellor conviction solution possible think thing solve think solve merit case course proceed apace solve thing get point thing come solve think merit fair question financial times prime minister address question chancellor possibly comment reply prime minister know separate answer question element package suggest german helpful united kingdom give sort commitment renew interest join european monetary system accompany overall negotiation wonder end chancellor schmidt feel good idea secondly look energy britain particular chancellor schmidt like remind lady gentleman fact britain standing invitation ems european monetary system historic fact beginning argue favour britain participation beginning britain reason time month previous administration jim callaghan denis healey time reason join ems time british government mind think time ripe regard energy policy specific german interest specific german interest limit growth agricultural outlay member community beginning year ago economist administrator understand agricultural outlay grow quick economy eec grow know correct sense limitation know agricultural minister agricultural corporation country grave misgiving attempt reform effect limitation think good moment lay principle ought see financial gap end close medium long run limitation agricultural outlay good occasion mislead think instance away system agricultural policy shall certainly maintain principle community preference common financing common price level hand limit subsidize agriculture country regard energy parallel situation specific german interest energy specific german request anybody britain holland denmark anybody economist administrator somebody foresee go happen world energy market decade year go prediction figure oil price barrel political circumstance speculate obvious eec need common energy policy interest future cohesion economy future cohesion government time energy crunch come see ultimate crunch far order ready time respond way break european economy think ought start think common energy policy bilateral question britain germany british prime minister german chancellor question exchange thought light communitys interest end prime minister want supplementary comment ems think like join time ripe not time ripe think look find limit twice comparatively recently reason know belong limit money hold rate know put money hold rate fact mean increase money supply like able period time effectively control money supply margin set month come range range set month able underlying rate achievement moment tremendous battle inflation think main thing money supply range get economy well control prove think well position join ems course consider range narrow wide range customary moment question grow feeling inside britain united kingdom well outside common market altogether follow experience year comment difference common market b britain end chancellor schmidt instance case right grow feeling quote deplore depth heart deplore political consequence lead require right look world political development cohesion unity country industrialize democracy west fragment exist entity west combination state certainly detrimental west need right believe medium run economically politically serve britain certainly serve weight community western world world large obvious think detract weight britain short run think financial advantage outlive sequence month repercussion field great far financial relief feel instance certainly lead instance put tariff wall instance plus plus plus specific german interest define worldwide interest defend prime minister know view sure ask supplementary reply go know view free world free europe demonstrate country free europe stick end politically european economic committee alongside solve problem affect particular member community good course britain continue loyal member european economic community time partner problem solve give solution likewise partner problem contribute solution problem partnership mean question come eec fly apart cause free world immense damage damage separate member question prime minister apparent rapport appear develop afresh chancellor look forward postpone summit great happiness confidence fair impression get prime minister think time gain use properly turn helpful provide use constructively apprehension diminish little think right not chancellor schmidt margaret understand question understand gist answer end prime minister say look forward great happiness summit end april chancellor schmidt great happiness prime minister end march say know cautious reply nature good deal apprehension talk talk round spend long time talk round problem atmosphere great good believe solution genuinely possible week ago chancellor schmidt subscribe answer prime minister prime minister atmosphere good question ask followup question prime minister yes german press yes end keith richardson sunday time chancellor feast good good germany britain close strong good germany france case earth patch alarming illwill britain france grow strongly moment chancellor schmidt ill britain france germanys business deal british french business ill exist germany intention institutionally regard german government parliament regard german public publish opinion act mediator ambassador paris london visit read french press read british press think country eec everlasting tendency parliament sicily jutland public opinion look oncoming decision take eec look decision take yesterday night brussels light national interest natural generation hand willingly intentionally create counterweight national attitude create attitude ask criticise comment evaluate oncoming decision take decision light good entity good interest europe good interest end world economy western world economy good interest west visavis soviet orbit think political realm journalistic sphere educate use yardstick degree national yardstick prime minister ask good question well answer get german guest quiet question mrs thatcher far apart point view chancellor concern ostpolitik present agree situation concern soviet union prime minister general agree situation concern soviet union eastwest relation agree importance keep europe united states concert response problem emerge agree present difficulty enormous invasion afghanistan totally new factor problem west east strive live world anxious secure withdrawal troop afghanistan try renew basis detente know interpret detente end reciprocation twoway business live world well basis get thing balance total united resolve west defend way life secondly wish troop afghanistan soviet russia live world differ philosophy live start well basis cooperation world edwin roth tagespiegel west berlin away moment europe discuss middle east not say discuss middle east prime minister discuss middle east edwin roth western point view strictly western point view palestine liberation organization agree welcome invasion afghanistan give utmost help ayotollah khomeini american hostage interest west organization agree invasion afghanistan give support holding american hostage leader western interest changing resolution end chancellor schmidt british government german government give boost plo government say great gap british friend friend west ultimate solution comprehensive peace look seek comprise right palestinians right state israel exist secure border speak german interpret determinology right palestinians right selfdetermination strive right selfdetermination german people tell rest world german nation attitude couple year new take new couple day week month concerned ongoing negotiation president anwar sadat prime minister begin socalled autonomy west bank progress approach time limit far promotion plo prime minister think add know view problem thing occur simultaneously right palestinian people determine future simultaneously recognize right israel stay israel live secure define border think position change way wish end thing move forward question think plo recognize prime minister politic hope actively work thing hope bring tell practically win election attend practically press conference chancellor schmidt prime minister thank copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Freedom can be lost by legislation and regulation as easily as it can be removed by revolution. This was a view put forward by Mrs Margaret Thatcher. Leader of the Opposition, when she spoke at Saturday's inaugural dinner and dance of Barnet branch of the Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain. Mrs Thatcher, MP for Finchley and Friern Barnet and her husband, were guests of honour at the dinner, at the Thatched Barn, Borehamwood. Mrs Thatcher told guests that one of the most important things we had seen recently was Solzhenitsyn 's television interview. We should heed his warning that our freedoms were in danger. What he said was true, and his interview would be seen in future as a signpost and turning point. Mrs Thatcher said that Solzhenitsyn knew well that freedom was not a passive quality but an active one which required vigilance. Earlier in her speech, Mrs Thatcher said it seemed to her that a society where money can be spent on gambling and personal pleasure but not on education or health was well on the way to a tyrannical dictatorship. She made a topical reference to the Boat Race and pointed out that five out of the six people running for Prime Minister came from Oxford University. She thought the one who did not—Foreign Secretary James Callaghan—would win. She told the members and guests that she had been brought up in a small town, and understood the importance of a pharmacy in a small community, even though she fortunately had very little call on their professional services. In welcoming her, Mr David Sharpe, a member of the society's council, made a plea for Conservatives to consider pharmacies when legislation was being planned affecting small businesses. He said a more realistic definition of a small business was needed than the current figure of 200 employees. In the average independent pharmacy there were less than five staff, including the pharmacist. Mr. Sharpe also drew attention to the concern over the continuing closure of community pharmacies up and down the country, but pointed out that the profession was proposing a planned pharmaceutical service similar to that operated for NHS doctors. “If our scheme were to be adopted, it would have the effect of doing away with a collection of pharmacies at one point—with nothing to offer people elsewhere,” he said. The chairman of Barnet branch Mr. John C. Bolton, said that 15 years ago there were 15,000 pharmacies but today only 11,000. They were closing at the rate of one every working day. Mr Bolton, a member of the society for 40 years, said they had always placed the needs of the nation before those of their own members. The most amusing speech of the evening was made by Dr. T. J. Carver founder chairman of Barnet Family Practitioner Committee. He too spoke of freedom of choice, not only for doctors, but for patients. He welcomed Mrs Thatcher as the only politician he knew who did not look or sound like Mike Yarwood and he wondered if the Iron Lady references had anything to do with the amount of food in her pantry. A cabaret was provided by members of the Little Heath and Potters Bar Operatic and Dramatic Society. A competition's prize included a crystal-glass decanter and a 5lb. bag of King Edward potatoes. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc freedom lose legislation regulation easily remove revolution view forward mrs margaret thatcher leader opposition speak saturdays inaugural dinner dance barnet branch pharmaceutical society great britain mrs thatcher mp finchley friern barnet husband guest honour dinner thatched barn borehamwood mrs thatcher tell guest important thing see recently solzhenitsyn s television interview heed warning freedom danger say true interview see future signpost turn point mrs thatcher say solzhenitsyn know freedom passive quality active require vigilance early speech mrs thatcher say society money spend gambling personal pleasure education health way tyrannical dictatorship topical reference boat race point people run prime minister come oxford university think foreign secretary james callaghan win tell member guest bring small town understand importance pharmacy small community fortunately little professional service welcome mr david sharpe member societys council plea conservative consider pharmacy legislation plan affect small business say realistic definition small business need current figure employee average independent pharmacy staff include pharmacist mr sharpe draw attention concern continue closure community pharmacy country point profession propose plan pharmaceutical service similar operate nhs doctor scheme adopt effect away collection pharmacy point offer people say chairman barnet branch mr john c bolton say year ago pharmacy today close rate work day mr bolton member society year say place need nation member amusing speech evening dr t j carver founder chairman barnet family practitioner committee speak freedom choice doctor patient welcome mrs thatcher politician know look sound like mike yarwood wonder iron lady reference food pantry cabaret provide member little heath potter bar operatic dramatic society competition prize include crystalglass decanter lb bag king edward potatoe copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Bev Smith, ATV [first words missing] … who could become Britain's first woman Prime Minister. Bev Smith, ATV Mrs Thatcher, you've come home. pauses MT That's right. Bev Smith, ATV What do you think of Grantham today? MT Fortunately there is a lot of it that's still the same and I've met of people who knew my family, and some who knew me and some who were at school with me. It's wonderful to be back. Bev Smith, ATV What about your old birthplace? MT What about it? Well, it's still there. Bev Smith, ATV It is, isn't it? MT Oh yes. Bev Smith, ATV tries to interrupt MT And I was not born in hospital either. I was born in a … proper home. [end p1] Bev Smith, ATV It is not very fitting though, nowadays, for perhaps Britain's first woman Prime Minister one day … not a very … uh, … MT Well, I don't know, my … Bev Smith, ATV … coming sort of place is it? MT My father … my father sold it, um, when he retired, and as you know we live ourselves in a house up the road from the business. Bev Smith, ATV Have you met any old friends here, that you knew in your own schooldays here? MT Um, not so many personal friends, but I've met a number of people who were at school with me and lots of people who knew my father. Bev Smith, ATV Can I turn you now to the troubles at British Leyland. How do you think that situation is going to resolve itself? MT There are several problems in Leyland. There is undoubtedly a very real grievance in that … differentials haven't been catered for under the pay policy. That's one problem. Then there's the … longer, more enduring problem of British Leyland—that they haven't been able to get uninterrupted production and therefore I'm afraid foreign cars have penetrated rather a lot into the English market. And then, of course, there is the third problem: can they ever get enough profits to plough back, to invest, to match the money which the Government's promised. If they can make profits themselves. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc bev smith atv word miss britain woman prime minister bev smith atv mrs thatcher ve come home pause mt s right bev smith atv think grantham today mt fortunately lot s ve meet people know family know school wonderful bev smith atv old birthplace mt bev smith atv not mt oh yes bev smith atv try interrupt mt bear hospital bear proper home end bev smith atv fitting nowadays britain woman prime minister day uh mt not know bev smith atv come sort place mt father father sell um retire know live house road business bev smith atv meet old friend know schoolday mt um personal friend ve meet number people school lot people know father bev smith atv turn trouble british leyland think situation go resolve mt problem leyland undoubtedly real grievance differential not cater pay policy s problem s long enduring problem british leyland not able uninterrupted production m afraid foreign car penetrate lot english market course problem profit plough invest match money government promise profit copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Ep. 1590 - The West Literally Goes Suicidal Published: 10/13/2022 (in RSS feed: 46m 37s) Canada's assisted suicide policy is one of the most horrifying dystopian programs in modern history. A Pfizer executives makes a truly shocking admission and Democrats double down on their claims that in the midterms it's Democracy at stake. I'm Ben Shappiro. This is the Be Shapiro Show, The Ben Shapiro Show sponsored by Express vpn. I talk about them every single show. Why haven't you gotten a VPN yet? Get express VPN right [email protected] slash ben. Get to all the news in just one moment. First, the consumer Price Index increased. Yet again, the stock market is in turmoil. This is not a solid economy and we can expect slowing growth and or actual recession in the next couple of years, which means you might wanna bet against the market at least a little bit by buying some precious metals. 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There's a story that has emerged in Canada over the course of the last several months, really over the course of the last year since 2021 in Canada. And it really speaks to the complete destruction of the Western ethic. It it speaks to how a, a belief system about life and natural law and right and wrong has completely collapsed in the face of radical individualistic autonomy. The idea that you are afraid to dispose of your own body, your own life in any way that you see fit, or at least you should be, that the, the thing that makes you truly free is there being no boundaries, no restrictions on your activity whatsoever, not liberty or ordered liberty, but libertinism you should be able to do whatever it is you want up to and including disposing of your own life. Now, it's always been controversial in the West as to whether there should be a law regarding suicide should, should it be illegal for you to commit suicide. And it seems like a silly question because obviously if you make it illegal, it's not like, Well, you know, I'm killing myself now I'm really afraid of going to jail. But the idea is that society does have a stake in you preserving your life. Society should not be facilitating your death. And this particularly comes up in the realm of assisted suicide and euthanasia in 21. There's a Canadian law on assisted suicide that was passed and it contained a provision that would allow doctors to provide assisted suicide to the psychiatrically Ill starting in 2022. This according to City Journal Cerca 2022, May 23rd, 2022, in an article by Theodore del Rems is given that severe psychiatric disorder tends to cloud the judgment of those who suffer from it. One wonders who will benefit most from this law have passed. Certainly it might remove from society, people who are often difficult, unproductive, and expensive. For others, they might be encouraged to shuffle off this moral coil as a service to their relatives or even to their country. The distinction between the voluntary and the compulsory might become blurred. The law's logical extension of the right to a dignified death procured by others. That is a mode and time of death of the person's choosing with the aid of doctors and nurses. Originally the right was conceded to those already dying, but why should the dying have all the best deaths? Either a man has a right to dispose of himself or he doesn't, whether he happens to be dying as in a sense, we all are anyway is relevant. If a man has the right to kill himself, it's only humane to give him the opportunity to do so in comfort surrounded by his loved ones with soft music, playing free of the messy outcome, so often associated with the unassisted suicide. This is sort of the ethos that you see in the old 1970 movie Soil and Green. There's a famous scene where Edgar g Robinson is brought into a death room and essentially they play Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony and they, they show pictures of flowers in the background while they poison him to death. And it's supposed to be a horror scene. It is not supposed to be a beautiful death because we know what's going to happen with his body. We know that the state wants him dead. But again, what this comes down to, and this is a really deep question in sort of Western ethics really since the rise of the Enlightenment is what are rights? What is liberty? Is liberty good for its own sake? Are rights unbounded or are rights and liberty supposed to exist within the boundaries of certain social standards that are very important to maintain? Now there, there are people who insist that liberty has inherent value, right? This is really a question inherent versus instrumental value. There are certain things in life that have inherent value and there are certain things in life that have instrumental value. So for example, friendship Aristotle would say is something that has inherent value, right? You don't, you don't need friends in order to accomplish X. Having the friend is the thing that is valuable, having a relationship with your wife, having a relationship with your kids, these are things of inherent and final value. And then there are things that are instrumentally valuable. Like for example, having money. Having money is a wonderful thing, but having a big number in the bank doesn't really do anything for you. It's what you can do with the money that makes it valuable. It is instrumentally valuable. So the question about liberty is whether liberty is itself inherently value or instrumentally value valuable. In other words, you having the ability to choose across a wide variety of, of options is, is that the thing that is good or is it good? Because you now have the ability to choose among a wide variety of good options. Does Liberty make bad options good because you have the possibility of choosing them. And this is, as I say, a very broad enlightenment question. John Stewart Mill in on Liberty would probably argue that Liberty has inherent value, that the ability to choose is what makes us human. And that is the thing that has actual real value. And then you have philosophers who are sort of more traditionally minded and, and some who are actually not of the right people like Joseph Raz, famous Israeli philosopher who suggest Liberty does not have inherent value. Liberty has instrumental value in order in, in other words, liberty is designed to allow you to choose between mutually morally, okay. Options and liberty does not make a bad option. Good. And what Joseph Raza argues in, in his book about liberty is that if I am, if, if, if I'm forced to kill the person next to me, there's a threat to my child. And the idea is someone's gonna shoot my child unless I shoot the guy next to me. Is that more or less blameworthy? Is that more or less moral than me just choosing to shoot the person next to me? So the idea is that me undergrads shooting somebody is significantly less morally blame Morey than me just choosing to shoot someone. In other words, my liberty did not make the decision better. It did not. The, the liberty itself was not inherently good. The addition of liberty to a bad action did not make the action better. It actually made it significantly worse because I had the liberty to choose otherwise. What this suggests is that liberty is not actually of inherent value, It's instrumentally. Good liberty is good because you can choose between a bunch of various options, all of which are decent or good. But the minute you can choose a really, really bad option, suddenly liberty loses its value. In fact, liberty becomes morally blameworthy. You using liberty to do a bad thing makes you a worse person than you using liberty to do a good thing or you being under tours to do a bad thing. Okay, this all seems very abstract, but when it comes to assisted suicide becomes a lot less abstract. In other words, do you have the right to kill yourself? Do you have the right to have somebody else kill you? And so in the liberties of inherent value, cam the idea to be sure, I mean that, that is the core of who you are, the essence of what you are. This maybe the Isaiah Berlin ideal of liberty. Sure, why not? Absolutely. That is what makes you, you is your ability to choose whatever it is that you want to do. And then in the liberties of instrumental value camp, you'd say, Well, yes, but you choosing to die is a bad decision for you, for society, for everyone. And it says something about a society that allows people to choose to die, especially with the assistance of others, that, that, that society does not value human life. That is society that does not see the preservation of human life as a chief value. And, and you're suddenly in a really ugly area where liberty is valued more highly than life. Now, normally, you know, we, we are guaranteed in the United States life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and normally life and liberty aren't really seen as coming into conflict because after all, who would choose to die, right? Life and liberty. If you have liberty, you choose to live, right? This is sort of the basic philosophical view of Thomas Hobbes. That self-preservation is the, is the main motivation at the root of human behavior. But what happens when you believe that you should be able to dispose of your body, you should be able to do whatever you want at any time up to and including death. And that comes into conflict with the value of life in a society. Well, the answer is what we're about to see in Canada. Now, the truth is that in Canada, some of the, the assisted suicide restrictions that they have, they, they like to pretend that it's about individual autonomy. It's not totally about individual autonomy cuz there's still rules on assisted suicide in Canada. In other words, if you are a person who wants to have an assisted suicide, you're perfectly healthy, you are adjudicated as perfectly healthy and you just wanna kill yourself. You're just in a bad mood that day or you've, you've just had a a marriage and you've lost your job, You're just mildly depressed or, or seriously depressed and you just wanna kill yourself. Will we allow you to commit suicide in Canada? Presumably the answer would be no. Or you actually have to have a doctor's note, which means that it's really not bad autonomy because the society is still deciding when you can and cannot kill yourself. And there's still restrictions as to what age and under what conditions. Okay? So even in Canada, they like to pretend that radical liberty is the solution. Liberty is of inherent value, not instrumental value. And so you should be able to pick, even Canada doesn't really believe that in the same way that the left routinely argues love is love with regard to marriage, but they don't actually believe all forms of love are credited equal because even the left believes that, for example, a boy, a boy shouldn't marry his brother, right? They even left believes that a father shouldn't marry his daughter. Now even they have limits on love is love, so that slogan is wrong. So the slogan of, of radical individual autonomy up to and including assisted suicide, that's not correct either. It's just that Canada has decided certain lives are not worth living. Canada has agreed that certain conditions make it okay within the realm of, of moral decisions to kill yourself. And we're not talking about just restricted to a woman who has terminal cancer and she's gonna die in two weeks in excruciating pain, or she's going to be euthanized by a doctor. The the reality by the way is that in most situations in which you have a terminal cancer patient in excruciating pain, they end up being opiated into death, generally speaking anyway, and these very harsh language. But it happens to be the reality if you bring a relative into the hospital and the relative is in severe excruciating pain, doctors will give that patient incredibly high doses of opiates. And that, you know, in, in most moral systems is, is basically allowed because it's the doctrine of dual effect. You're not trying to kill the patient, you're trying to alleviate the pain. And if that ends up in the process shortening the life of the patient, that just is what it is. Okay? But put that aside, there's certain circumstances where obviously there's a very sympathetic case that can be be made for the idea that people want to want to die because they're gonna die in three days anyway and they're in excruciating pain and people die in very ugly ways. Death is a very, very ugly thing, particularly from medical causes as opposed to, you know, sort of suddenly, I mean like gradual medical causes opposed to suddenly. But what Canada is doing is something different. They're now broadening the scope of how suicide should apply. And this is really dangerous stuff because this is Western society deciding that life under most circumstances is not worth living. That there are just too many circumstances in which it's okay for people to take their own life. In fact, it's morally praiseworthy for society to encourage the taking of life and this result in what is a horrifying dystopian story straight out of soil and green by Rupa Superman over at Barry Weiss's. Subst stack over at Common Sense and it's called Scheduled to Die, the rise of Canada's assisted suicide program on September 7th, Margaret Marcilla called Joshua Tepper, the doctor who planned to kill her son Marcilla is 46. She lives outside Toronto with her husband and daughter, a nursing student. She had known that her 23 year old son, Keanu Vayan was depressed. He was diabetic, he had lost vision in one eye. He didn't have a job or girlfriend or much of a future. And Marcella asked her daughter to log onto Keanu's account. Keano had given his sister access so she could help him with his email. He never shared anything with his mother. What he was thinking, where he was going, and Marcella was scared. That was when Marcella learned that Keanu had applied and in late July been approved for medical assistance in dying, AKA made AKA assisted suicide. His death was scheduled for September 22nd. In a September 7th email from Tepper, the doctor to Keano and Tela Hendrickson, the executive director of Made House, a Toronto facility where Keanu's death would take place. Tepper mapped out the schedule. Hi, he emailed, I'm confirming the following timing, please arrive at 8:30 AM I will ask the nurse at 8:45 AM and I will start the procedure at around 9:00 AM. Procedure will be completed a few minutes after it starts. The procedure entailed administering two drugs. First, a coma inducing agent, then a neuromuscular blocker that would stop Keanu's breathing. He would be dead in five to 10 minutes. Apparently Ke wanted to bring dog with him in an email. Tim, that same day Hendrickson said, Dogs are welcoming this space as long as there's someone there who will be responsible for them during the time it made House Marcilla was terrified. She try to do everything for her son, but it had been rough, but it had been rough for him. She and his dad had gotten divorced when Canna was still a kid on a 16th birthday. She'd given him a BMW when he was 17. He'd been in a bad car accident. He wasn't up to college. He smoked a ton of weed, which by the way, again, this is sort of a side note in the piece, but to pretend that weed addiction has nothing to do with depression or suicidal ideation is really silly and contra of the data. He'd lived with his dad then with his mom and now with his, now with her sister Kean, whoever he went, whatever he did, he was unhappy going blind. His in his left eye. This past April was the tipping point. The day after she discovered the email, Marcella called Tepper, she pretended to be a made applicant. She called herself Joanne and said quote, She wanted to go through the whole process in general from Ada Z before the Christmas holidays, if you know what I mean. Tepper indicated he understood teer sounding. Matter of fact ran through the list of requirements. You have to be over 18, you have to have an Ontario health insurance plan, you have to have suffering that cannot be remediated or treated in some way that's acceptable to you. And that's the the wiggle word, right, acceptable to you because the truth is, most people under a doctors care, most people go to a psychologist or a psychiatrist, have periods in which they believe that the care they are receiving is not acceptable to them. This happens all the time. Again, I have mentally ill relatives. The, the, the notion that you are constantly and consistently feeling success with your psychiatrist or psychologist is just not true. Very often people go through space where they feel like things are working and they go through areas where they feel like things are not working. So it's very easy to fulfill that standard suffering that cannot be remediated or treated or treated in some way that's acceptable to, In fact, one of the signs of depression when, when you see people are depressed is they feel stuck. They feel as though they're stuck in time. That that moment is going to last forever. That this is not a transient feeling, this is a permanent feeling. So depression and suicidal ideation being very linked again, not very hard to pr to to basically walk into any of these clinics in Canada and just say, My suffering can't be remediated or treated in a way that's acceptable to me. I'm stuck right here, right now in my depression. Marcilla who recorded the conversation and shared the five and a half minute recording with common Sense told Tepper she was diabetic and blind, more or less her son's condition. Tepper said he'd had a lot of patients similar to you. Then the doctor said, if you wanted, I could do a formal assessment with you. Marcella asked if she should come in. Tepper replied, We do them remotely often by video of some type, WhatsApp, zoom, FaceTime, something like that. A few minutes later, Marcella hung up. She had just over two weeks to stop her son from dying says this columnist for, for Barry Weiss's subs. When we think of assisted suicide or euthanasia, we imagine a limited number of elderly people with late stage cancer or advanced adolescent severe pain. The argument for helping them die is clear. Death is imminent. Why should they be forced to suffer? In 2015, Canada's Supreme Court ruled that assisted suicide was constitutional. Now again, one of the things that happened in the United States is that euthanasia is legal in certain places in the United States, but the, the question as to whether there is a constitutional right to assisted suicide has never been adjudicated at the Supreme Court level, right? That, that you should strike down all bans on assisted suicide. In 2015, Canada Supreme Court rule's assisted suicide was constitutional. In June, 2016, Parliament passed Bill C 14, otherwise known as the medical Assistance in dying Act made was now the law of the land. Anyone who could show their death was reasonably foreseeable, was eligible. By the way, everyone's death is reasonably foreseeable, is it not? That's literally to the predicate to every life insurance ad we do on this program. Like everyone is going to die hard to break hate to break it to you. That's the reality. In this respect, Canada was hardly alone. The Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, Australia and New Zealand among others allow assisted suicide. So do 10 states in the United States. In 2017, the first full year in which made, which was administered by provincial governments was in operation. 2,838 people opted for assisted suicide according to a government report. By 2021, within four years, the figure had jumped to 10,064. That accounted for more than 3% of all death in Canada the entire year. Okay, so these numbers are skyrocketing. There have been a total of almost 32,000 assisted suicide deaths in Canada. A large majority of those people were 65 to 80. When they died in 2017, only 34 made deaths were in the 18 to 45 year old category. In 2018, that figure rose to at least 49 in 2019 was a 103 in twenty twenty, a hundred eighteen, and in twenty twenty one, a hundred thirty nine today, thousands of people who had lived for many years are applying successfully to kill themselves. Indeed, in some Canadian provinces, nearly 5% of all deaths are assisted suicide. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7% of deaths in the province were due to made in British Columbia. The number was 4.8%. Progressive Vancouver Island is unofficially known as the assisted death capital of the world. According to doctors why the dramatic increased? Well over the past few years, doctors have taken an increasingly liberal view when it comes to defining reasonably foreseeable death. Then last year the government amended the original legislation stating that one could apply for this program even if one's death were not reasonably foreseeable. The second track of applicants that simply had to show they had a condition that was intolerable to them and could not be relieved under conditions they consider acceptable in 2023, the numbers are almost certain to rise next March, the government is ex is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide seekers to include the mentally ill and mature minors. Okay? This is totally, and it comes again of a broader worldview, which suggests radical individual autonomy is in and of itself an inherent good. It is not an inherent good and mentally ill. People are not capable of making good decisions for themselves, which is generally why they have people around them who care for them, who try to help them. And you're talking about mature minors talking about 16, 17 year old kids who by the way are going to be plagued by mental health issues because a lot of teen suicidal ideation and depression is linked to age. It is linked to that age where you have hormones racing through, you don't know what to do with them. You don't have social structures around you, you have a broken family structure. You have mental issues that are just starting to crop up and the solution in Canada apparently is to make suicide available. According to Canada's Department of Justice, parents are generally entitled to make treatment decisions on their children's behalf. The mature minor doctrine, however, allows children deemed sufficiently mature to make their own treatment decisions. The federal government does not define mature. It does not specify who determines whether one is mature. It's not like you have to go to a court and a court says, Oh, you're a mature minor. Basically it's self-assessed. The doctrine also varies from one province to another. Dr. Dawn Davies, a palliative care physician who supported, made when it was first conceived, said she had tons of worries about where this might lead. By the way, if you're talking about the worries about profitability, that's a very real worry. If you're a doctor who makes their living doing assisted suicides, well what are you gonna do? You're gonna broaden these spectrum of available conditions that allow for assisted suicide. Pretty clearly, if you make your living killing kids, then a 17 year old comes to and says, Listen, I'm, I'm mature minor, I'm really, really depressed. I'd like to make an appointment if that's how you make your money. Now, capitalism does not discriminate between good economic behavior, morally speaking and bad economic behavior. Morally speaking, capitalism will sell you pornography and it will sell you vote candles. It doesn't matter. And that happens to be the case if you are selling death, which is why assisted suicide is a very different thing even than than euthanasia the right, the sort of right to commit suicide under medical care. Right? Assisted suicide is actually a step beyond that. Dr. Non Davies could imagine kids with personality disorders or other mental health issues saying they wanted to die. Some of them will mean it, it, some of them won't. We won't necessarily be able to discern who is who and according to this article in in Common sense, Barry Weiss Subst Hugh share an attorney advising Margaret Marcella told me, While other countries have explored extending assisted suicide minors, those governments have insisted on substantial safeguards including parental notification and consent, which again is totally crazy by the way. Like if you're a parent and you consent to your 17 year old committing suicide, who's to say that you're go like no one should be able to consent to anyone else's death? And the reality is you should not be able to consent in your own death barring certain extraordinary circumstances and real realistically speaking from a a pure pro-life point of view, you should not be able to consent in your own death other than if you are talking about the kind of palliative care that we see routinely in hospitals that are designed to minimize pain, not to cause death. We'll get to more on this in just one moment. First, let's talk about how you make your business more efficient. Here is one way we got the holiday season coming up. This means you're gonna be sending out a lot of packages and this means you don't need to schlep that stuff over to the post office. You don't need to wait in line and post office is great. 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It was easy for me to put together our all form sofa to find your perfect sofa. Head on over to all form.com/ben. All form is offering 20% off all orders For our [email protected] slash ben today, Step up your sofa game but says this attorney quote, Canada is poised to become the most permissive euthanasia regime in the world, including for minors and people with only psychiatric illness already having removed the foreseeability of death or terminal illness as an essential condition to access euthanasia or assisted suicide. Dr. Ellen Warner's, an oncologist at the prominent Sunnybrook Research Institute in Toronto, a professor at University of Toronto's medical School. My objection to made from day one was that there was no way we would be able to avoid this slippery slope. There aren't black and white cases. I'm 100% against made. I'm an old fashioned hippocratic oath kind of doctor, right? Preserve life. But Dr. Derek Smith, psych psychiatrist at the University of British Columbia views the rise in made death as progress Smith never took the Hippocratic oath because he thought it was archaic, right? The idea do know harm because doctor's like, Well what if I wanna do harm made is about relieving suffering, respecting human dignity. Again, respecting human dignity does not mean respecting your ability to kill yourself. That is the opposite of human dignity. We have redefined dignity in dying to mean that death should be less ugly for you and for the people around you. But who is to say honestly on a moral level, who is to say that it is quote unquote more dignified to, to go while being slowly poisoned by a doctor, then it is to go, then it is to wait until a very last minute and die in an ugly way in order to demonstrate to friends and family and to to everybody around you that life is so valuable that you should not shorten it. Who said that? Dignity, lies and ease. And I'm not condemning people who choose to make what has to be. You know, not just life alter, but I like the ending decision because they're in horrible pain. I'm not blaming people for feeling that way. What I am saying is that society's standard for what constitutes death with dignity is really incorrect. It is not correct. The society's standard of what death with dignity would constitute, should be the attempt to preserve life because life is just that valuable and a society that starts to demean life in favor of dignity gets into really ugly territory really quickly because then the question becomes, what does a dignified life look like, right? If you get to declare that as a society, death with dignity is being slowly poisoned by a doctor a week before you're going to die anyway. Or as Canada is saying, that death with dignity involves you have a depressed teenager and the teenager decides to the death with dignity, decides to kill himself with the use of a doctor as opposed to taking sleeping pills or instead of going to a psychiatrist for a prolonged period of time and slowly fading. What if you're a society and you decide to do that? That raises the question, what does dignified life look like? Because what if a huge number of people talking people who are mentally disabled, I'm talking people who are mentally ill, I'm talking people who are very sick, who's hit aside whether those lives are worth living. Now we say that it's the person's own decision, but when you're talking about mentally ill people, it isn't their decision because mental illness robs you of your facility of of your faculties. It robs you of the ability to make good informed decisions. That is why we call people mentally ill because they're incapable of making decisions that are rational for themselves. But according to this doctor, quote, assisted suicide had been happening for ages before. Made patients who were going die were assisted along way with high doses of narcotics. The rationale was to quote unquote make people comfortable. But again, when we say make people comfortable, means to alleviate pain not to kill them. Many of the people thinking about killing themselves in Canada are relieved. The government has made it easier to die. The nightmares have been a problem. Mitchell Tremble 40 told me since I was six years old and my cousin molested me. I'd found tremble on Twitter. He had a small following, but he was active in made circles. Tremble was made curious. The made curious were lonely and scared. They'd coalesced into a growing online community, mostly on Twitter and Facebook and through the spread of death cafes. There are more than 1300 death cafes in Canada and 14,000 worldwide. In the beginning. In 2012 or 2013, people mostly met in other people's homes to talk about the emotional and philosophical complexities of death. They ate cake and had coffee or tea. Since then, the number of virtual cafes had grown considerably. There was also an expanding constellation of end-of-life doctors and death. Doulas carried Sooki at death. Doula at madhouse where was scheduled to die is described on the maid house website as believing that endof life planning leads to a meaningful and transf meaningful and transformational experience. That's one way of putting it when when you're dead. Tremble was from outside Toronto. He'd been homeless on and off for more than two decades. He'd spent years in and out of psychiatric facilities. He'd prostituted himself, done a ton of drugs, shuttle between dingy apartments and halfway houses. For now, he had a place to live. He expected to be evicted. By spring he, he planned to apply for MA as soon as it opened up to the mentally ill In March 20, 23, Maid is going to give me dignity. Truly said, I need to go now because I know it's going to get worse. But is death going to give you dignity? Is that true? Is this what society is saying about life? That certain lives are just not worth living? It has not been lost on government officials made, could save them a good bit of money. In October, 2020, the Office of Parliamentary budget office issued a report stating made with cut healthcare costs by over 66 million. In 2017, Aaron Trachtenberg, research fellow and doctor at the University of Manitoba in brands in command, a health economist in nephrologist at the University of Calgary published a paper predicting made could slash healthcare costs by as much as a hundred million yearly. Dr. Ramona Koho, a family physician in a suburb of Toronto, said I do, where he made as an easy solution to bed shortages and a terrible lack of resources. Patients are facing KO's comments jived at a 2021 letter from three UN officials to the Canadian government about made having a potentially discriminatory impact on persons with disabilities and older people who are not at the end of their life or nearing death from natural causes. The letter said there is a real risk. Those who may be further marginalized by their racialized indigenous gender identity or other status will be more vulnerable to being induced to access. Made. On September 8th, the day after Margaret Marcella called Joshua Teer, she took to Facebook to post about her son. Can you effing believe it? The doctor has literally given him the gun to kill himself. Marcilla Road, Dr. Kristen Creek in Winnipeg message her. As it turned out, Creek was a family physician and she provided made. She was surprised to hear a young man with diabetes who'd been approved for it. She urged Marcilla to call Teer back and be upfront about who she was. Marcilla did just that. Soon after Marcilla, Keo, Keshan and Tepper spoke on the phone. That call led nowhere. Marcela said, By now, a right-wing Canadian Catholic news site had picked up on Marc's post, which mentioned Tepper by name. The doctor was getting pummeled by outrage readers. On September 16th, Tepper texted Marcilla to say he'd postponed Keanu's death until September 18th. Five days later, the doctor texted her again to say, actually he wasn't gonna do it. He didn't want anything more to do with piano. Vahan. Last week, after repeatedly trying to connect with Keano, I managed to FaceTime with him. He had a dark beard of mustache, special goggles to make it easier for him to see. He said he'd applied for, made a few years back, then dropped it and then thought about trying again. Then in May after learning his eyes, I was only gonna get worse. He decided he wanted to die. I was so ready. He said I was actually very looking forward to adding my pain and suffering. He hated not being able to see the unhappiness was exhausting. He was arrested for assaulting his father and another time for indec exposure, which he blamed on some hallucinogenic drugs. He had been microdosing. My thoughts are I would be closer to God. He said he was doing this. He declared for himself and for his family. Keanu told me he was baffled by everything that had happened in the past three weeks. His mother's social media campaign, TE's decision not to help him die. I didn't know what to say. It's how she knows she. It's how she knows how to love me still. He was furious with her. He didn't know what came next, whether he'd find another doctor that made people didn't wanna touch his case on Facebook, he posted a screenshot of a series of texts between him and his mom. Marcella wrote, Keano, I love you. No, you don't hero back. You were adding to my pain and suffering for that I curse you. I love you and I wanna talk to you. Marcella wrote, after a moment, he texted back, You know what I need? And these are, these are people who are not capable of making decisions for themselves and the, and the, and the government approving all of this is a massive act suggesting what they believe of human life more generally. And then you wonder why western cultures seem to be dying. Maybe the answer is that they have decided that life is not actually of top priority, not just on an individual level, but for society at large. That what liberty boils down to is not liberty to make good decisions within the boundaries of institutions, but eviscerating all institutions and all values in pursuit of adamistic individualism. And if the government can facilitate that, that's really what the government is there to do. The government is there just to facilitate your adamistic individual decision making no matter how council productive or how bad, and even if the government is going to engage in the evil of promoting death for people who can't take care of themselves. I guess that that's just the cost of liberty. Really, really horrifying stuff up in Canada. And everything that starts in Canada unfortunately ends in the United States and is promulgated worldwide as well. The euthanasia statistics in places like the Netherlands are fascinated me. What they show is that euthanasia is obviously highly tied to societal values. They vary widely according to bmj, which is a a medical journal. The the, there's an unexplained sevenfold variation, euthanasia rates across the Netherlands. So what you would expect is that if a, a government had a widespread euthanasia policy or an assisted suicide policy and all that were happening is that people who really wanted to die were being allowed to die. That that would be the deciding factor. What you would expect is a certain level of consistency across major cities and that's not what you see. You see a very big difference between certain areas of Netherlands and other areas of the Netherlands. In other words, societal values matter and pretending that the only value is consent or liberty is incorrect, that is not the only value. The goal of right is to preserve the good. The goal of liberty is to preserve the good. Liberty has incredible value to human beings when we are given a bunch of options, all of which are morally acceptable. And then we get to choose how to define our lives in accordance with these morally acceptable options. But you blow away all the boundaries and you say that there's no such thing as morally acceptable option. You fall into complete moral relativism and from there into societal collapse and that is what you are seeing right now. Mario gets more in just one moment. First, I'm doing a lot of traveling. As you may notice, it's the Jewish holidays. So I'm over here in Jerusalem, but I know that my home back in the United States is safe and sound. Why? Because I have ring Now Your thing wait isn't ring. Just that video doorbell company. So I guess you just know who's at your front door. No, it's more than that. Ring also makes an alarm system. Ring Alarm is an award-winning home security system with available professional monitoring. When you subscribe, which I do best of all, you can easily install it yourself. And Ring didn't stop there. They've changed the home security game with Ring Alarm Pro. That's why I've decided to team up with Ring. When it comes to protecting my own home, I rely on Ring Alarm Pro with a Ring Protect Pro subscription, which is an amazing deal by the way. I get professional monitoring for the ultimate peace of mind. If anything happens, professional monitoring calls me, they can request emergency services as well. Ring Alarm Pro combined a security system with a fast ERO wifi six router for home security plus network security all in one device. So whether I'm across the country or across town or outta the country, I know everything at home is protected and connected and that it's going to stay that way to protect my home. I've gone pro with Ring Alarm Pro, so can you learn more at ring.com/ben? That is ring.com/ben to get started. Also, the corporate media agenda means the news is presented in a very biased way. You know it, I know it. We all know it. Thankfully, there is a way to get the most important news of the day without the narrative and that is by listening to one of the top news podcasts in America. Morning wire. Morning Wire will bring all the news you need to know in 15 minutes or less every single day. Stories that are being left out of the narrative by the mainstream media presented in a way that is easily digestible and interesting and entertaining. You'll find morning Wire and election wire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify Daily Art Plus or wherever you listen to podcasts. Meanwhile, a shocking story has now emerged with regard to Pfizer and what they knew and when they knew it. Now, as you know, if you've been listening to the show at all, I've been following the data with regard to Covid since literally the day that this broke onto the international scene, right? If you go back to my shows from February, March, I tried to follow this as as closely as I could on a granular level. And so when the vaccines emerged, I was an advocate of the vaccines particular for people who are not young and healthy. If you were a person with significant complicating medical factors, if you're a person who was above the age of 65, I highly encourage people to get the vaccine. One of the lines that was used routinely was that you should get the vaccine to prevent other people from getting the disease. And this is fairly true in in a wide variety of vaccination cases. Now with mRNA vaccines, there was really not a lot of data cause this was a novel coronavirus vaccine that was developed in extraordinarily short order. But the way that sort of traditional vaccines had worked is if you were given inoculation against a particular disease, you are not able to be a carrier of that disease and so therefore it would sort of kill the disease off within the population more broadly. This is the theory behind, for example, measles mom's rubella, is that you reach a certain level of inoculation among the general population and you removed a lot of people from the board as potential transmitters of the disease. Okay? So when the vaccine rollout happened, one of the major points in favor of things like vaccine mandates was not the efficacy of the vaccine on an individual level. That's why I told people they should make decisions for themselves about the use of the vaccines. I again, highly encouraged people who had complicating medical factors to get the vaccines. I said I was really indifferent to whether young people should get it and I was not indifferent to whether kids should get it. My kids, for example, were not vaccinated. My parents were vaccinated and boosted. I was twice vaccinated, not because I was afraid of getting covid, but because again, I was told by the medical professionals at the time they were lower my parents chance of getting covid. Cuz this is right at the very beginning when the vaccines were first developed. And this here in lies, the issue here in lies the issue. So we were told at the very beginning when the vaccine was first rolled out at the reason that people like me needed to get the vaccine was not because I was a significant risk of death, right? If you, if you actually looked at the statistics, my risk of death was not particularly great. There were two reasons. One was the course of the, of the disease was going to be less grave, right? It was gonna be less damaging to you if you took the va. Okay? Fair enough. You know, I didn't wanna miss very much work. If I got it, I wanna get a mild version. And indeed that's what happened. Eventually, I ended up getting amron despite being vax, and I got a fairly mild version of it. I don't think I missed a day of work probably. Okay? So there's that and that's one reason. But the other reason was that we were told I would not transmit it to people who were older. And since my parents were basically bubbled with me and with my kids, we tried to get the vax basically as fast as humanly possible. Now it turns out that this part was not true and that there was never dated a packet. So from the very outset, the idea was everybody needs to get vaed. And this is what justified VAX mandates. Everybody needed to be vaed because it would prevent transmission. Here, for example, here's little real we put together of various scientific and political sources saying the reason for you to get vax is to prevent grandma from getting the disease. The vaccines, as we all know, are highly effective and really very, very safe. They're, You're okay. You're not going to, you're not gonna get covid if you have these vaccinations. Our data from the CDCs today suggest you know that that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick and, and that it's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real world data. Everyone who takes the vaccine is not just protecting themselves, but reducing their transmission to other people and allowing society to get back to normal. Okay? Again, this is the case and you understand why people might say that, especially because this had been claimed by Pfizer, which was producing the vaccine. Well now, according to daily wire.com, a top Pfizer executive's admission Monday to European lawmakers that the pharmaceutical giant never tested its covid vaccine to determine if it stopped transmission is now raising new questions about the global effort to compel people to get the job. Again, providing people the option to get the job is a very good thing. It allows you to lower your personal risk. It's a very different thing if you predicate entire large scale government policy on everybody here needs to get the job because that will stop the transmission of the virus. As it turns out it did not, right? Even the Biden administration now admits this. But the part of this that's really disturbing is that people were out there saying this sort of stuff based on data that was never provided by Pfizer because people at Pfizer were basically saying what had been true of prior vaccines but had never been tested with this vaccine. So Janine Small is Pfizer's president of international developed markets and she was testifying before the European Union Parliament. She was asked by European Union member of Parliament, Rob Ruse, if the company tested the mRNA vaccine on stopping transmission before rolling it out. He said, If not, please say it clearly. If so, are you willing to share the data with the committee? Here's what it sounded like. Was the Pfizer Covid vaccine tested on stopping the transmission of the virus before it entered the market? If not, please say it clearly. If yes, are you willing to share the data with this committee? And I really want a straight answer yes or no. And I'm looking forward with, thank you very much Regarding the question around did we know about stopping humanization before essentially the market? No, these, you know, we had to really move at the speed of science to really understand what is taking place in the market. That is really an amazing statement. So they never had time to research it, but again, that didn't stop them from trotting out what they thought was going to encourage people to get the vaccine. This is not the way science is typically done. Now I understand you're on a fast timeline. I understand that you want people to get VAs, but in the end, you know what would've helped people get VAs? You didn't even have to make that claim. You could've just said what I said. If you were obese, if you had diabetes, if you were sick, if you were old, then you should probably get the va. And if you're young and healthy, you should consider whether or not it lowers your risk factor based on the available data that was the responsible way to try out the vaccine. That is not the way that the, the vaccine was trotted out. Russ said, Millions of people worldwide felt forced to get vaccinated because of the myth you do it for others. He said, this turned out to be a cheap lie and it should be exposed. Russ claimed the admission. Pfizer never tested its vaccination to determine if it prevented or even slowed. The spread of Covid shows there was never legitimate basis for vaccin mandates or passports. And those were widely implemented. They implemented in New York City, they're implemented abroad, they're implemented in California, they're implemented nearly everywhere. People got fired on mass Over all of this, all predicated on complete lack of data. Fellow EU member of parliament, Kristen Te has a Romania said the shocking admission calls into question, other actions by the pharmaceutical giant. She asked in a tweet, they haven't tested the vaccine to see if it's stopping the spread of the virus. So we're asking again, what exactly are they hiding? Well, I mean, there's certain things that have now emerged, right? Like the, the rate of of myocarditis in young people being elevated, right? They, at the very beginning, there's a lot of talk about is the, is the vaccine changing how women have their periods? And the answer that's no, no, it's not doing. And then it turns out that it was, and not in a huge major way, but it was delaying periods, it was changing fertility cycles and all the rest of it. So the point here is not that people shouldn't have taken the vaccine or the vaccines are bad or, or vaccines kill more people than they say or anything remotely like that. The point here is scientists make claims that are too broad for the data to support. And you see this in nearly every area of western life right now. This is why you see, for example, transgender gender affirming care being trotted out as standard of care in hospitals across the nation without actual data to back it. They'll say things like, Well, you know, you'll either have a live daughter or a dead son. If you have a boy who insists he's a girl, the data are not there to support that. But you'll hear doctors and scientists say this stuff and what it means is you have to read below the top line. And that's very difficult for people because again, the whole point of expertise is to allow people to shortcut the system. That's what expertise does. The reason that you consult an expert is because presumably the expert knows more than you, and the expert is gonna be able to boil down very difficult and sometimes obscure language into things that are readily understandable. But that means you have to trust the expert is not actually just filtering out information that he or she does not wanna hear. You have to trust that the expert is not actually just biasing the scientific process in order to achieve a particular result, or is not using platonic laws in order to encourage you to do a thing that they want you to do. And more and more these days, this is just not the case. We have too many instances of supposed scientific experts who are injecting their own biases into the kind of bottom line that they give to the New York Times without bothering to actually look at what the studies say or while ignoring many of the facts that the study site. And as another example of this, today, there's a very long piece in the New York Times about how long covid is a true threat to millions of people. And it's based on, again, a study of self-reported symptoms, which is really, really rough data. And it turns out that in the control group, right, people who did not have covid well, who had tested negative for covid, that the percentage of people who were complaining of the same symptoms was still really high. It was like 16 to 31% of those people were still complaining of the same long covid symptoms. So how did the scientists get out of that one? How'd they bri outta that one? According to the New York Times, they said, Well, that probably means they had a false negative. Maybe they did have covid. And all the tests were so now you have an a neverending regress of things. I can't believe, I can't believe you. I can't believe the test. I can't believe the data that you're citing, and I can't believe your bottom line. And then you wonder why the scientific establishment is taking it on the chin these days. Maybe the answer is you guys aren't transparent about what it is you don't know. And that is the real basis of the scientific method is not, we are the experts and you ought to listen to us. The real basis is we will represent to you the best available data at any given time, and that data may change. So we're just gonna tell you what we know right now, and we're gonna tell you what we don't know right now. And what we don't know right now is just as important as the stuff that we do know right now. And then you get to make an informed decision that is the way science is supposed to work. Unfortunately, for a long time, that is not the way that science has actually worked. Alrighty, we've reached the end of today's show. However, we still have to talk about the midterm elections and the attempt by Democrats to turn this into a referendum on our democracy itself, plus the latest in the Ukraine War. If you're not a member, you need to join [email protected]. Click the link in the description and join us right now.

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ep west literally go suicidal publish rss feed m canadas assist suicide policy horrifying dystopian program modern history pfizer executive make truly shocking admission democrat double claim midterm democracy stake m ben shappiro shapiro ben shapiro sponsor express vpn talk single not get vpn express vpn right nowexpressvpncom slash ben news moment consumer price index increase stock market turmoil solid economy expect slow growth actual recession couple year mean wanna bet market little bit buy precious metal way text ben birch gold send free information kit protect saving gold tax shelter account expert birch gold year experience convert ira precious metal ira plus rating well business bureau countless star review thousand satisfied customer not check gold good hedge inflation diversified saving protect downturn market ira s underperform text bend convert ira precious metal right birch gold group plus rating well business bureau countless star review thousand satisfied customer text 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s policy geniuscomshapiro s story emerge canada course month course year canada speak complete destruction western ethic speak belief system life natural law right wrong completely collapse face radical individualistic autonomy idea afraid dispose body life way fit thing make truly free boundary restriction activity whatsoever liberty order liberty libertinism able want include dispose life controversial west law suicide illegal commit suicide like silly question obviously illegal like know m kill m afraid go jail idea society stake preserve life society facilitate death particularly come realm assisted suicide euthanasia s canadian law assisted suicide pass contain provision allow doctor provide assist suicide psychiatrically ill start accord city journal cerca article theodore del rem give severe psychiatric disorder tend cloud judgment suffer wonder benefit law pass certainly remove society people difficult unproductive expensive encourage shuffle moral coil service relative country distinction voluntary compulsory blur law logical extension right dignified death procure mode time death person choose aid doctor nurse originally right concede die dying good death man right dispose not happen die sense relevant man right kill humane opportunity comfort surround love one soft music play free messy outcome associate unassisted suicide sort ethos old movie soil green s famous scene edgar g robinson bring death room essentially play beethoven pastoral symphony picture flower background poison death suppose horror scene suppose beautiful death know s go happen body know state want dead come deep question sort western ethic rise enlightenment right liberty liberty good sake right unbounded right liberty suppose exist boundary certain social standard important maintain people insist liberty inherent value right question inherent versus instrumental value certain thing life inherent value certain thing life instrumental value example friendship aristotle inherent value right not not need friend order accomplish x have friend thing valuable have relationship wife have relationship kid thing inherent final value thing instrumentally valuable like example have money have money wonderful thing have big number bank not money make valuable instrumentally valuable question liberty liberty inherently value instrumentally value valuable word have ability choose wide variety option thing good good ability choose wide variety good option liberty bad option good possibility choose broad enlightenment question john stewart mill liberty probably argue liberty inherent value ability choose make human thing actual real value philosopher sort traditionally minded actually right people like joseph raz famous israeli philosopher suggest liberty inherent value liberty instrumental value order word liberty design allow choose mutually morally okay option liberty bad option good joseph raza argue book liberty m force kill person s threat child idea someone go to shoot child shoot guy blameworthy moral choose shoot person idea undergrad shoot somebody significantly morally blame morey choose shoot word liberty decision well liberty inherently good addition liberty bad action action well actually significantly worse liberty choose suggest liberty actually inherent value instrumentally good liberty good choose bunch option decent good minute choose bad option suddenly liberty lose value fact liberty morally blameworthy liberty bad thing make bad person liberty good thing tour bad thing okay abstract come assisted suicide lot abstract word right kill right somebody kill liberty inherent value cam idea sure mean core essence maybe isaiah berlin ideal liberty sure absolutely make ability choose want liberty instrumental value camp d yes choose die bad decision society say society allow people choose die especially assistance society value human life society preservation human life chief value suddenly ugly area liberty value highly life normally know guarantee united states life liberty pursuit happiness normally life liberty not see come conflict choose die right life liberty liberty choose live right sort basic philosophical view thomas hobbe selfpreservation main motivation root human behavior happen believe able dispose body able want time include death come conflict value life society answer canada truth canada assisted suicide restriction like pretend individual autonomy totally individual autonomy cuz s rule assist suicide canada word person want assisted suicide perfectly healthy adjudicate perfectly healthy wanna kill bad mood day ve ve marriage ve lose job mildly depressed seriously depressed wanna kill allow commit suicide canada presumably answer actually doctor note mean bad autonomy society decide kill s restriction age condition okay canada like pretend radical liberty solution liberty inherent value instrumental value able pick canada not believe way left routinely argue love love regard marriage not actually believe form love credit equal left believe example boy boy not marry brother right leave believe father not marry daughter limit love love slogan wrong slogan radical individual autonomy include assisted suicide s correct canada decide certain life worth live canada agree certain condition okay realm moral decision kill talk restrict woman terminal cancer s go to die week excruciate pain s go euthanize doctor reality way situation terminal cancer patient excruciate pain end opiate death generally speak harsh language happen reality bring relative hospital relative severe excruciating pain doctor patient incredibly high dose opiate know moral system basically allow doctrine dual effect try kill patient try alleviate pain end process shorten life patient okay aside s certain circumstance obviously s sympathetic case idea people want want die go to die day excruciating pain people die ugly way death ugly thing particularly medical cause oppose know sort suddenly mean like gradual medical cause oppose suddenly canada different broaden scope suicide apply dangerous stuff western society decide life circumstance worth live circumstance okay people life fact morally praiseworthy society encourage taking life result horrify dystopian story straight soil green rupa superman barry weisss subst stack common sense call schedule die rise canadas assist suicide program september margaret marcilla call joshua tepper doctor plan kill son marcilla live outside toronto husband daughter nursing student know year old son keanu vayan depressed diabetic lose vision eye not job girlfriend future marcella ask daughter log keanus account keano give sister access help email share mother think go marcella scared marcella learn keanu apply late july approve medical assistance die aka aka assist suicide death schedule september september email tepper doctor keano tela hendrickson executive director house toronto facility keanus death place tepper map schedule hi email m confirm follow timing arrive ask nurse start procedure procedure complete minute start procedure entail administer drug coma induce agent neuromuscular blocker stop keanus breathe dead minute apparently ke want bring dog email tim day hendrickson say dog welcome space long s responsible time house marcilla terrify try son rough rough dad get divorce canna kid birthday shed give bmw d bad car accident not college smoke ton weed way sort note piece pretend weed addiction depression suicidal ideation silly contra data d live dad mom sister kean go unhappy go blind left eye past april tipping point day discover email marcella call tepper pretend applicant call joanne say quote want process general ada z christmas holiday know mean tepper indicate understand teer sound matter fact run list requirement ontario health insurance plan suffer remediate treat way s acceptable s wiggle word right acceptable truth people doctor care people psychologist psychiatrist period believe care receive acceptable happen time mentally ill relative notion constantly consistently feel success psychiatrist psychologist true people space feel like thing work area feel like thing work easy fulfill standard suffering remediate treat treat way s acceptable fact sign depression people depressed feel stuck feel stuck time moment go forever transient feeling permanent feeling depression suicidal ideation link hard pr basically walk clinic canada suffering not remediate treat way s acceptable m stuck right right depression marcilla record conversation share half minute recording common sense tell tepper diabetic blind son condition tepper say d lot patient similar doctor say want formal assessment marcella ask come tepper reply remotely video type whatsapp zoom facetime like minute later marcella hang week stop son die say columnist barry weisss sub think assisted suicide euthanasia imagine limited number elderly people late stage cancer advanced adolescent severe pain argument help die clear death imminent force suffer canadas supreme court rule assist suicide constitutional thing happen united states euthanasia legal certain place united states question constitutional right assist suicide adjudicate supreme court level right strike ban assisted suicide canada supreme court rule assist suicide constitutional june parliament pass bill c know medical assistance die act law land death reasonably foreseeable eligible way everyone death reasonably foreseeable s literally predicate life insurance ad program like go die hard break hate break s reality respect canada hardly netherlands switzerland belgium spain australia new zealand allow assisted suicide state united states year administer provincial government operation people opt assisted suicide accord government report year figure jump account death canada entire year okay number skyrocket total assist suicide death canada large majority people die death year old category figure rise eighteen thirty today thousand people live year apply successfully kill canadian province nearly death assist suicide province quebec report death province british columbia number progressive vancouver island unofficially know assist death capital world accord doctor dramatic increase past year doctor take increasingly liberal view come define reasonably foreseeable death year government amend original legislation state apply program one death reasonably foreseeable second track applicant simply condition intolerable relieve condition consider acceptable number certain rise march government ex schedule expand pool eligible suicide seeker include mentally ill mature minor okay totally come broad worldview suggest radical individual autonomy inherent good inherent good mentally ill people capable make good decision generally people care try help talk mature minor talk year old kid way go plague mental health issue lot teen suicidal ideation depression link age link age hormone race not know not social structure broken family structure mental issue start crop solution canada apparently suicide available accord canadas department justice parent generally entitle treatment decision children behalf mature minor doctrine allow child deem sufficiently mature treatment decision federal government define mature specify determine mature like court court say oh mature minor basically selfassesse doctrine vary province dr dawn davie palliative care physician support conceive say ton worry lead way talk worry profitability s real worry doctor make living assist suicide go to go to broaden spectrum available condition allow assisted suicide pretty clearly living kill kid year old come say listen m m mature minor m depressed d like appointment s money capitalism discriminate good economic behavior morally speak bad economic behavior morally speak capitalism sell pornography sell vote candle not matter happen case sell death assist suicide different thing euthanasia right sort right commit suicide medical care right assist suicide actually step dr non davy imagine kid personality disorder mental health issue say want die mean will not will not necessarily able discern accord article common sense barry weiss subst hugh share attorney advise margaret marcella tell country explore extend assisted suicide minor government insist substantial safeguard include parental notification consent totally crazy way like parent consent year old commit suicide s like able consent else death reality able consent death bar certain extraordinary circumstance real realistically speak pure prolife point view able consent death talk kind palliative care routinely hospital design minimize pain cause death moment let talk business efficient way get holiday season come mean go to send lot package mean not need schlep stuff post office not need wait line post office great need able efficient daily wire stampscom waste time stampscom post office access line traffic hassle stampscom stop shop shipping mailing need year stampscom indispensable million business access ps ups service need run business right computer inflation rise dollar count protect margin major discount ps up rate stress free solution small business use stampscom print postage business need computer printer need package pickup easily schedule stampscom dashboard rate constantly change stamp dot com switch save feature easily compare carrier rate know get good deal single time run online store stampscom work seamlessly major shopping cart marketplace ahead holiday cast year get start stampscom sign promo code shapiro special offer include week trial free postage digital scale long term commitment contract stampscom click microphone page enter code shapiro special deal talk fact need rest okay heli sleep mattress great okay here thing not sleep night kid wake night actually need time need power nap wanna lie couch read book love form helix leave bedroom ve enter living room form helix launch new company call form make good sofas game form sofa american easy assemble scratch stain resistant stylish comfortable form sofa modern timeless seat piece come wide variety size shape configuration easily customizable cost fraction pay traditional store design flexible adaptable form sofa grow way live form sofa collection ve get arm chair loveseat sectional find perfect piece space ship directly door assemble minute tool need m mechanically apt person easy form sofa find perfect sofa head formcomben form offer order listenersallformcom slash ben today step sofa game say attorney quote canada poise permissive euthanasia regime world include minor people psychiatric illness having remove foreseeability death terminal illness essential condition access euthanasia assist suicide dr ellen warner oncologist prominent sunnybrook research institute toronto professor university torontos medical school objection day way able avoid slippery slope not black white case m m old fashioned hippocratic oath kind doctor right preserve life dr derek smith psych psychiatrist university british columbia view rise death progress smith take hippocratic oath think archaic right idea know harm doctor like wanna harm relieve suffering respect human dignity respect human dignity mean respect ability kill opposite human dignity redefine dignity die mean death ugly people honestly moral level quote unquote dignified slowly poison doctor wait minute die ugly way order demonstrate friend family everybody life valuable shorten say dignity lie ease m condemn people choose know life alter like end decision horrible pain m blame people feel way say societys standard constitute death dignity incorrect correct societys standard death dignity constitute attempt preserve life life valuable society start demean life favor dignity get ugly territory quickly question dignified life look like right declare society death dignity slowly poison doctor week go die canada say death dignity involve depressed teenager teenager decide death dignity decide kill use doctor oppose take sleeping pill instead go psychiatrist prolong period time slowly fade society decide raise question dignified life look like huge number people talk people mentally disabled m talk people mentally ill m talk people sick s hit aside life worth live person decision talk mentally ill people not decision mental illness rob facility faculty rob ability good informed decision people mentally ill incapable make decision rational accord doctor quote assist suicide happen age patient go die assist way high dose narcotic rationale quote unquote people comfortable people comfortable mean alleviate pain kill people think kill canada relieve government easy die nightmare problem mitchell tremble tell year old cousin molest d find tremble twitter small following active circle tremble curious curious lonely scare d coalesce grow online community twitter facebook spread death cafe death cafe canada worldwide beginning people meet people home talk emotional philosophical complexity death eat cake coffee tea number virtual cafe grow considerably expand constellation endoflife doctor death doula carry sooki death doula madhouse schedule die describe maid house website believe endof life planning lead meaningful transf meaningful transformational experience s way put dead tremble outside toronto d homeless decade d spend year psychiatric facility d prostitute ton drug shuttle dingy apartment halfway house place live expect evict spring plan apply ma soon open mentally ill march maid go dignity truly say need know go bad death go dignity true society say life certain life worth live lose government official save good bit money october office parliamentary budget office issue report state cut healthcare cost million aaron trachtenberg research fellow doctor university manitoba brand command health economist nephrologist university calgary publish paper predicting slash healthcare cost million yearly dr ramona koho family physician suburb toronto say easy solution bed shortage terrible lack resource patient face kos comment jive letter un official canadian government have potentially discriminatory impact person disability old people end life near death natural cause letter say real risk marginalize racialize indigenous gender identity status vulnerable induce access september day margaret marcella call joshua teer take facebook post son eff believe doctor literally give gun kill marcilla road dr kristen creek winnipeg message turn creek family physician provide surprised hear young man diabete d approve urge marcilla teer upfront marcilla soon marcilla keo keshan tepper speak phone lead marcela say rightwe canadian catholic news site pick marcs post mention tepper doctor getting pummel outrage reader september tepper texte marcilla d postpone keanus death september day later doctor texte actually not go to not want piano vahan week repeatedly try connect keano manage facetime dark beard mustache special goggle easy say d apply year drop think try learn eye go to bad decide want die ready say actually look forward add pain suffering hate able unhappiness exhaust arrest assault father time indec exposure blame hallucinogenic drug microdose thought close god say declare family keanu tell baffle happen past week mother social medium campaign te decision help die not know know know love furious not know come d find doctor people not wanna touch case facebook post screenshot series text mom marcella write keano love not hero add pain suffering curse love wanna talk marcella write moment texte know need people capable make decision government approve massive act suggest believe human life generally wonder western culture die maybe answer decide life actually priority individual level society large liberty boil liberty good decision boundary institution eviscerate institution value pursuit adamistic individualism government facilitate s government government facilitate adamistic individual decision make matter council 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mainstream medium present way easily digestible interesting entertain ll find morning wire election wire apple podcast spotify daily art plus listen podcast shocking story emerge regard pfizer know know know ve listen ve follow datum regard covid literally day break international scene right show february march try follow closely granular level vaccine emerge advocate vaccine particular people young healthy person significant complicate medical factor person age highly encourage people vaccine line routinely vaccine prevent people get disease fairly true wide variety vaccination case mrna vaccine lot datum cause novel coronavirus vaccine develop extraordinarily short order way sort traditional vaccine work give inoculation particular disease able carrier disease sort kill disease population broadly theory example measle mom rubella reach certain level inoculation general population remove lot people board potential transmitter disease okay vaccine rollout happen major point favor thing like vaccine mandate efficacy vaccine individual level s tell people decision use vaccine highly encourage people complicate medical factor vaccine say indifferent young people indifferent kid kid example vaccinate parent vaccinate boost twice vaccinate afraid get covid tell medical professional time low parent chance get covid cuz right beginning vaccine develop lie issue lie issue tell beginning vaccine roll reason people like need vaccine significant risk death right actually look statistic risk death particularly great reason course disease go grave right go to damaging take va okay fair know not wanna miss work get wanna mild version s happen eventually end get amron despite vax get fairly mild version not think miss day work probably okay s s reason reason tell transmit people old parent basically bubble kid try vax basically fast humanly possible turn true date packet outset idea everybody need vaed justify vax mandate everybody need vaed prevent transmission example here little real scientific political source say reason vax prevent grandma get disease vaccine know highly effective safe okay go go to covid vaccination datum cdcs today suggest know vaccinated people carry virus not sick clinical trial real world datum take vaccine protect reduce transmission people allow society normal okay case understand people especially claim pfizer produce vaccine accord daily wirecom pfizer executive admission monday european lawmaker pharmaceutical giant test covid vaccine determine stop transmission raise new question global effort compel people job provide people option job good thing allow lower personal risk different thing predicate entire large scale government policy everybody need job stop transmission virus turn right biden administration admit s disturbing people say sort stuff base datum provide pfizer people pfizer basically say true prior vaccine test vaccine janine small pfizer president international develop market testify european union parliament ask european union member parliament rob ruse company test mrna vaccine stop transmission roll say clearly willing share datum committee here sound like pfizer covid vaccine test stop transmission virus enter market clearly yes willing share datum committee want straight answer yes m look forward thank question know stop humanization essentially market know speed science understand take place market amazing statement time research not stop trot think go encourage people vaccine way science typically understand fast timeline understand want people vas end know ve help people vas not claim ve say say obese diabete sick old probably va young healthy consider lower risk factor base available datum responsible way try vaccine way vaccine trot russ say million people worldwide feel force vaccinate myth say turn cheap lie expose russ claim admission pfizer test vaccination determine prevent slow spread covid show legitimate basis vaccin mandate passport widely implement implement new york city implement abroad implement california implement nearly people get fire mass predicate complete lack datum fellow eu member parliament kristen te romania say shocking admission call question action pharmaceutical giant ask tweet not test vaccine stop spread virus ask exactly hide mean s certain thing emerge right like rate myocarditis young people elevate right beginning s lot talk vaccine change woman period answer s turn huge major way delay period change fertility cycle rest point people not take vaccine vaccine bad vaccine kill people remotely like point scientist claim broad datum support nearly area western life right example transgender gender affirm care trot standard care hospital nation actual datum ll thing like know ll live daughter dead son boy insist s girl datum support ll hear doctor scientist stuff mean read line s difficult people point expertise allow people shortcut system s expertise reason consult expert presumably expert know expert go to able boil difficult obscure language thing readily understandable mean trust expert actually filter information wanna hear trust expert actually bias scientific process order achieve particular result platonic law order encourage thing want day case instance suppose scientific expert inject bias kind line new york times bother actually look study ignore fact study site example today s long piece new york times long covid true threat million people base study selfreporte symptom rough datum turn control group right people covid test negative covid percentage people complain symptom high like people complain long covid symptom scientist d bri outta accord new york times say probably mean false negative maybe covid test neverending regress thing not believe not believe not believe test not believe datum cite not believe line wonder scientific establishment take chin day maybe answer guy not transparent not know real basis scientific method expert ought listen real basis represent good available datum give time datum change go to tell know right go to tell not know right not know right important stuff know right informed decision way science suppose work unfortunately long time way science actually work alrighty ve reach end today talk midterm election attempt democrats turn referendum democracy plus late ukraine war member need join overdailywearpluscom click link description join right

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. I want to begin with a confession. I don't greatly care for being in Opposition (Applause). We have certain plans to deal with that situation. (Applause). I believe that the essence of politics is not what you say; it's what you do. So I look to the day when we put Conservative principles into practice—in Government (Applause). I look to the day when we throw off the Socialist yoke and together turn to the task of setting our country on the road to a real and lasting recovery. [end p1] That day can be postponed. It can't be put off for ever. One Thursday, a day like any other Thursday and yet, I believe, a day that will prove the turning-point of our time, the Labour Party will have to keep their appointment with the voters. It is a prospect I relish (Applause). Either back us or sack us, says Mr. Callaghan. Just give the people the chance, Jim, give 'em the chance. (Laughter and applause.) He won't, of course, until he must. He daren't. Which is why, instead of a government with steel in its backbone, we've got one with David SteelSteel in its pocket. (Laughter and applause). [end p2] Last week at Brighton we were accused of “an insatiable lust for power” . It's not the Tories who have wheeled and dealed and manoeuvered and manipulated to avoid one thing at all costs—facing the voters. It's Labour's Limpet Government. (Applause). Hence the Lib-Lab Pact. So much for Labour's political principle. So much for the Liberals' genuine conviction. And so much for the courage to stand by what you believe in, even if by standing by it you lose your seat. Better to lose your seat than your self-respect. [end p3] Just what is it the Liberals have kept in office? A government that for 2½ years overspent overtaxed, interfered, nationalised, debased our currency and all but bankrupted Britain. (Applause). In short, that acted like a Labour Government. Mr. Healey blandly refers to “the horrors of 1974/75” . But who was Chancellor of the Exchequer then? You've guessed it. They were Healey's horrors. After him the deluge? No. Because of him. (Laughter and applause.) “The financial position has been reversed 180 degrees” says the Chancellor with a flourish. Quite so. Because his policies have been reversed 180 degrees—by order of the International Monetary Fund. (Applause.) [end p4] Twelve months ago the 4-Budget-A-Year man all but took the country over the cliff with him—until at the eleventh hour he turned back from Heathrow in a panic and headed for home—to take out the most massive mortgage in our history. Beginning of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977 The prescription the IMF forced his government to swallow is the prescription we have long been advocating. A good, sound, sensible, Conservative prescription. So my message to Moses is this; keep taking the tablets. (Laughter and applause). End of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977 And if Labour wants an Election slogan, I suggest—it's just a thought but one likes to be helpful— “You know IMF Government works” . (Laughter and applause). [end p5] Some of the commentators are saying that the James CallaghanPrime Minister is stealing our clothes. Well, it's true that he's lost his own, but he's going to look pretty ridiculous walking around in mine. (Laughter and applause). Of course all of us are deeply thankful that the wealth of the North Sea has started to flow. But the North Sea is not a Socialist sea. Its oil is not Socialist oil. It was found by private enterprise, it was drilled by private enterprise, and it is being brought ashore by private enterprise. (Applause.) Let's put the picture in perspective. [end p6] As the oil comes on stream, our balance of payments is going to look healthier. That's good news for Britain. Sterling should be safe from another Socialist slide. That's good news for Britain. The standard of living of our people might rise again, if only a little, after its catastrophic fall. That would be good news for Britain too. And, as I've said before, good news for Britain is good news for the Conservative Party. (Applause.) [end p7] But look closer. The truth is we are still grinding along in bottom gear, with our factories producing less than they were when Labour came to power; that real profits, and therefore investment, are still abysmally low, and that the number of men and women without a job is the highest since the war. And that's bad news for Britain. Now take prices—if you can catch them. The Government boasts of its success in bringing the rate of inflation down. But even if it falls as far as Mr. Healey predicts—and today not even his own Joel Barnettnumber two believes him—prices in Britain will still be going up faster than in other countries. [end p8] If Labour survives into next year, prices will have doubled while they have been in power. Doubled. That's not an economic miracle. It's an economic and personal disaster. At Brighton last week we saw Socialism wearing its pre-election face. Beware the leopard when it's quiet. It hasn't changed its spots. It just doesn't want its victim to know it's there. (Applause.) Why was it so quiet last week at Brighton? Because it wants the people to believe that it's a gentle, well-behaved, Social Democratic pussy-cat. (Laughter and applause.) [end p9] We all know the drill. In the run-up to each Election the claws of Labour's extremists aren't drawn, they are just withdrawn. The front men are paraded to talk quietly, moderately almost sensibly. The left-wing allow them their little outing, until the voters are once more in the trap. Now suppose the Election is over. Make a supreme effort and imagine Labour has won. What then? The trap is sprung. And Labour's extremists resume the drive towards a Britain modelled on Eastern Europe. “It can't happen here,” you say. [end p10] At Brighton the annual election to Labour's National Executive produced the same line-up as before. Not a single left-winger lost out. It's the same Executive which produced “Labour's Programme for Britain 1976” . That programme remains official Labour Party policy 1977. Mr. Benn was frank enough to say so, perhaps hoping the public wasn't listening. Nationalise the banks and insurance companies. That's Labour policy. Do you like the idea of their hands on your savings? How do you fancy Mr. Healey—or Mr. Benn—as your friendly neighbourhood bank manager? [end p11] And they want to nationalise all the land. Not just some of it, all of it. They demand a free hand to take over almost any firm—big or small, the building industry, the food industry, fishing, forestry, ports and many more. That's their policy too. They want the power to make every business obey them. They want to cut tax relief for home buyers. They want higher income tax to pay for their plans. They want an immediate wealth tax, on top of Capital Gains Tax, on top of Capital Transfer Tax. What's the point of building up your savings or your own business if they're going to take it all away from you? But it's all there in their little red book. It's all official Labour Party policy. [end p12] And to make it easier to ram through this frightening Socialist programme, they've just voted to abolish the House of Lords. There, behind the cosy, Brighton front, you have the reality of Labour. (Applause.) [end p13] But, you may ask, when the Election comes will this actually appear in their Manifesto? Some of it will, and if they were to win, sooner or later they'll do it all. Because, whenever Labour win an Election, the Tribune Group grow stronger and stronger and stronger. From one Election to the next, Labour's programme gets meaner, more narrow, more Marxist. Britain, beware! The signpost reads “This way to the “total Socialist state” . [end p14] Destroying freedoms we have cherished and defended down the centuries won't worry the far Left. They like everything about Eastern Europe—except, alas, going to live there—because after all the living standards there are very low. So let no-one say today there is no true difference between the parties, no real choice before the nation. This is not what the people think. Many men and women who had voted Labour all their lives turned to us in Ashfield, Stechford, Workington and Walsall. They know the Labour Party they used to vote for is not the Labour Party of today. The party of Hugh Gaitskell has become a Party fit for Andy Bevan and Peter Hain. (Applause.) [end p15] The disillusioned, the disenchanted, the courageous, the converted, we welcome them, one and all, to our cause. But the job of cleaning up Labour, the job of ditching the extremists, is not in our hands. It's in the hands of the people on that special Thursday for which we watch and wait and work. If just 5 or 6 out of every 100 voters switch from Labour to Conservative at the election, they will slash the size of the Tribune Group by about a third. On a swing of that size 25 Tribunites will lose their seats. [end p16] And Britain will have a Conservative Government—a truly moderate government, moderate not by order of our foreign creditors, but by genuine conviction, in touch and in tune with the people, carrying out the sort of sensible, prudent, policies that work so well in other countries. Of course, that's not the picture our opponents will paint. And here let me make a personal prophecy. In the coming months you will see a carefully orchestrated campaign by the Labour Party and Labour Government to portray me as “extremely this” and “extremely that” —not to mention “extremely the other” . A whole battery of extremist labels will be bandied about. Indeed they are being bandied already. The closer the Election looms, the faster and more furious will the bandying become. [end p17] So let me tell you a little about my “extremism” . I am extremely careful never to be extreme. I am extremely aware of the dangerous duplicity of Socialism, and extremely determined to turn back the tide before it destroys everything we hold dear. (Applause.) I am extremely disinclined to be deceived by the mask of moderation that Labour adopts whenever an Election is in the offing, a mask now being worn, as we saw last week, by all who would “keep the red flag flying here” . [end p18] Not if I can help it. The Conservative Party now and always flies the flag of one nation—and that flag is the Union Jack. (Applause.) So much for my so-called “extremism” . There's another word our opponents like. The word is “reactionary” . They say that a Thatcher Government—and I must say that I like the sound of that a little more each time I hear it (Laughter and applause.)—would be reactionary. [end p19] If to react against the politics of the last few years, which undermined our way of life and devastated our economy—if that's reactionary then we are reactionary—and so are the vast majority of the British people. (Applause.) They believe, as we do, that Government is far too big; that it does not know all the answers; that it has downgraded the individual and upgraded the State. We do not believe that if you cut back what Government does, you diminish its authority. On the contrary, a Government that did less, and therefore did it better, would strengthen its authority. [end p20] Our approach was put very simply by a Chinese philosopher centuries ago. “Govern a great nation” , he counselled, “as you would cook a small fish. Don't overdo it” . (Applause.) So if you ask whether the next Conservative Government will cut controls and regulations and keep interference in people's lives to a minimum, my answer is “Yes, that is exactly what we shall do” . The best reply to full-blooded Socialism is not milk and water Socialism, it is genuine Conservatism. (Applause.) For 13 years from 1951 we curbed the powers of the State. [end p21] Ask those who remember which they preferred: the steady increase in prosperity of the 13 Tory years, or the white-hot Socialist stagnation of Messrs Wilson and Callaghan. By their fruits shall ye know them. What are the fruits of Socialism? Where is the prosperity? Where are the new jobs? The stable prices? The low taxes? Where is the money created by a thriving economy, to spend on our schools and hospitals, on the pensioners, on the sick and disabled? [end p22] Today we know Socialism by its broken promises—above all by the broken promise of a fairer and more prosperous Society. Socialism has not made society fairer, it has made it less fair. It has not made Britain richer, it has made it poorer. It has not distributed the rewards of achievement more widely, it has decimated them. (Applause.) Let us ask and keep on asking the question Labour can never answer. “If your policies are right, why do they never work? And why is it only when you start doing some of the things we have told you to do, that you ever take a few steps forward?” [end p23] But a few steps are not enough. If I have one message above all else it is this: I am not prepared to settle for second, third or fourth best for Britain. (Applause.) I do not believe that our decline was inevitable any more than I believe that an accident of nature off our coasts has made our recovery automatic. But I believe that if we confront—yes, confront reality, if we pin our trust on the skill, resource and courage of our people, then this country can work out its salvation and regain its prosperity—the respect of others and its own self-respect. [end p24] Some people regard this as dangerous talk. “The Tories” they say “want change; they want to challenge the rules and ideas and policies that govern Socialist Society. Risky” they murmur “Right, of course, but risky—might upset Arthur Scargill, or Jack Jones—better not … better not” . There you have the root and heart of the choice facing our nation. What worries Jack Jones is that the Leaders of his Party are living too well. What worries us is that ordinary people aren't living well enough. (Applause.) [end p25] That's why the next Election will be so crucial. All elections are crucial; this time the choice could be decisive for a generation. Because this time how the country votes will settle which party is entrusted with the immense benefits of North Sea Oil. If it is the Socialists, then the profits of free enterprise will be used to purchase socialism, to take more power for the state. If it's the Conservatives, they'll be used to give power back to the people. (Applause.) [end p26] The choice is the classic choice. Labour would do what it has been doing for the last three years, only more so. We shall do what we have said we will do. “Set the people free.” The key question I am asked over and over again is, but will a Conservative Government be free? How will you get on with the Trade Unions? And will the Trade Unions allow a Conservative Government to govern? [end p27] Yes, the word is “allow” . People who ask the question are already half way into Labour's trap. They've swallowed the bait and are ripe for the catch. Here is the position. The Government dare not fight on its record or on any manifesto that would be acceptable both to its Marxist Left and the people of Britain. So, like an unimaginative parrot, they keep repeating: “The Tories won't be able to work with the Unions” . [end p28] And when the time comes Jack Jones will be expected to mutter it, Hugh Scanlon to go along with it, David Basnett may actually say it—and Clive Jenkins will almost certainly shout it. (Laughter.) And it won't be true—unless the Union leaders are determined to make it true. Now take a hypothetical situation. [end p29] Suppose they are so determined. Suppose they've already made up their minds to make the task of an elected Conservative Government impossible. Then we would face a situation in which an unelected minority was intent on getting rid of a Government that it couldn't control, and replacing it with one that it could. Is this what the Union Leaders seriously intend? To use their industrial muscle for political ends? I don't believe it. But, people are asking, if it were so, what would happen? Could a handful of men with great power hold the nation to ransom? [end p30] The answer is, it's possible. Should such a situation arise, for example in a vital nationalised industry, it would be presented as a conflict between Government and Trade Union. This would be false. The real conflict would be between Union and people. (Applause.) Because it would be the people that would suffer. It always is. In that case the duty of the Government, any Government would be to act, through Parliament, on behalf of the nation as a whole. [end p31] In a vital issue such as this, in which the Government had to take decisive action on a single specific matter, it would be important for the government to know that it had the support of the majority of the people. Beginning of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977 And it's in this context—and in this context only—that I have suggested a Referendum, to test public opinion. In those circumstances, in those special circumstances, I say “Let the people speak” . (Applause.) I hope and believe the situation will never arise. End of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977. I would like to make two final points about the Unions. [end p32] One: a strong and responsible trade union movement is essential to this country and its rights must be respected. Two: the belief that those rights take precedence over all other rights, and even over the law itself could be fatal to this country. Happily, the great majority of trade unionists know this as well as, if not better than, some of their leaders. They know that while their leaders represent them at work, we represent them in Parliament. We in the Conservative Party look forward to a long and fruitful association with the Unions. [end p33] A Conservative Britain will be as much in the interest of Union members as of the rest of the community. They know that taxes today are too high, that they torpedo talent, that they must be cut. And that is what we Conservatives will do. We shall cut income tax so that once again it is worthwhile to work harder and to learn a skill. (Applause.) We want to keep our best brains in Britain and bring home some of those who have been driven abroad. [end p34] We want to hold out to the enterprising businessman a reward which matches the risks of building up a firm. We want to renew the spark of incentive in our economy because without that new jobs cannot and will not be created. We want to leave everyone with more of his own money in his own pocket to spend as he pleases. (Applause.) Our aim is to make tax collecting a declining industry. There are more Civil Servants in the Inland Revenue than there are sailors in the British Navy. (Laughter.) [end p35] If Governments don't cut what they spend we have to cut what we spend. There's one hand out that people really want today. That's the Government's hand out of their pocket. (Laughter and applause.) This is the positive approach and it's the key to getting industry going again. We don't believe that Government can run industry better than the people who work there. It can't. [end p36] Countries that are more successful than we are owe their economic achievements above all to free enterprise. And the benefits are not confined to a few of their citizens. They are spread among the many. The whole community benefits. “When the tide comes in, all the boats rise” . Of course, no Government in a modern industrial society—and certainly no sensible Conservative Government—can wholly withdraw from the market place. [end p37] But Government support for ailing industry will only produce an ailing economy unless it is selective, unless the circumstances are exceptional, and unless that support is directed to two overriding aims: moving the firm out of the red into the black and then back to independence as quickly as possible. A sure recipe for industrial blight is a Government that gives what amounts to a blanket guarantee that virtually any firm will be saved from the consequences of its own mistakes. No firm and no nation can behave indefinitely as though there is little difference between profit and loss, high production and low, success and failure. [end p38] In this as in so much else, Churchill put his finger on it: “It is a Socialist idea” he said “that making profits is a vice … . the real vice is making losses” . [end p39] We would like to see the workers who help create the profits sharing them. The Labour Party want Union leaders on boards of directors. We want more employees voting as share-holders, at company meetings. (Applause.) Under a Conservative Government we hope that more of them will own a stake in industry and that more of them will own their own homes. Conservatives are a family party. We believe that in a healthy society more and more people should be able to buy the roof over their heads. [end p40] That is why we will give Council tenants the right in law to buy their homes. (Applause.) That legislation, I promise you, will be announced in the first Queen's speech of the next Conservative Government. (Applause.) Let the Labour Party go on offering newly-weds a place on the waiting list for a house on a Council estate which they can never call their own. We offer them a place that belongs to them, their own home in which to start life together and later to bring up their children. (Applause.) And then what happens when the children go to school? [end p41] We have got to stop destroying good schools in the name of equality. The main victims of Labour's recent attack on the direct grant schools have been able children from the less well off families. Beginning of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977: People from my sort of background needed Grammar schools to compete with children from privileged homes like Shirley Williams and Anthony Wedgwood Benn. (Applause.) End of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977: Our aim in education is simple: it is to raise standards for all our children. [end p42] That means fighting far more vigorously against that small minority which believes the principal purpose of education is to instil contempt for democratic institutions. That's not education, it's political propaganda. I see no reason why you and I and every other tax payer should pay for it. (Applause.) And these destroyers would also destroy respect for our laws and the order on which a civilised society is based. People have asked me whether I'm going to make the fight against crime an issue at the next election. No, I am not going to make it an issue, it's the people of Britain who are going to make it an issue. (Applause.) [end p43] The old people in our city centres who are terrified to go out at night are going to make it an issue. The tax payers and rate payers who have to meet the bills for mindless vandalism are going to make it an issue. The parents worried sick when their children go out on their own are going to make it an issue. Beginning of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977: Yes, law and order will be an issue, and it will be a vital issue at the election. And if anyone thinks that's right wing, they should talk to the workers in the factory and the women in the supermarkets. (Applause.) End of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977. The next Conservative Government will give more resources to the police. (Applause.) They are undermanned and poorly paid. We will bring them up to strength. We will give them the money to do the job. (Applause.) [end p44] Beginning of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977: I do not intend to sit on the sidelines, wringing my hands, while London, Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham and the rest of our cities go the way of New York. End of section checked against BBC Radio News Report 1300 14 October 1977. If the violence in Britain is deeply disturbing, it is nothing to what has been endured by the people of Northern Ireland for nearly ten years. [end p45] What happens in Ulster touches us all; it is a part of our country, our United Kingdom. Let the people of Ulster be assured of this—the Conservative Party stands rock-firm for the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Today we express our deep and lasting admiration for Betty Williams and Mairead Corrigan, the Belfast Peace Women who have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. (Applause.) Their courage symbolises to us, and to the whole Western world, the yearning of the people of Ulster for peace. And we honour with them the Royal Ulster Constabulary, the Ulster Defence Regiment and our servicemen in Northern Ireland. (Applause.) [end p46] I only wish that all the members of our armed forces who defend freedom, there, and in other parts of the world, had a higher place in Socialist priorities. The Labour Party have cut present and future spending on defence, by the staggering figure of £8½ billion. What sort of Government is it that so neglects the welfare of our servicemen? What sort of Government forces front-line soldiers into claiming rent rebates, and makes many of them worse off than people who don't even try to work at all? [end p47] Our armed forces are poorly paid. They are denied the equipment, the stores, the back-up and the training that they know are vital to the job they do. Worse, they see the anti-western wing of the Labour Party calling for still more gigantic cuts in defence, which a former Roy MasonLabour Defence Secretary said would mean at best “neutrality” , at worst “surrender” . We have a government that neglects our defences. A Government that lets down NATO so badly that our allies have rebuked it publicly. A Government which spends money on nationalisation while cutting spending on the defence of the realm. [end p48] As I promised President Carter last month, the next Conservative Government will give defence the high priority that it demands. (Applause.) The Conservative Government will see that our troops are properly paid, increase defence spending so that we meet our obligations to our allies, and by strengthening the defence of the West, restore the morale of our fighting services. Let us not forget—our first duty to freedom is to defend our own. (Applause.) [end p49] It was to that end and purpose that I entered politics, and two years ago, in this hall, from this platform, I spoke to you for the first time as Leader of our Party. I remember well my nervousness, and pride, as I tried to tell you something of my personal vision and my hopes for our country and our people. I felt deeply my responsibility then. Today I feel it even more deeply. [end p50] For much has happened between those two Octobers. Two years ago I spoke of a man's right to work as he will, to spend what he earns, to own property to have the State as servant and not as master. Today the threat to those democratic values has doubled and redoubled. I know only too well, as I go about the country, the fears felt for our British way of life. I know it from the letters I receive. And I know how many hopes ride with us today. The hopes of millions who are Conservative and millions who are not. But who look to us because they feel instinctively that what is happening to their country threatens not only their freedom but everything that made it materially and morally great. [end p51] Paul Johnson expressed it movingly and with a writer's clarity the other day, when he resigned from the Labour Party. “I have come to appreciate, perhaps for the first time in my life” he wrote “the overwhelming strength of my attachment to the individual spirit. The paramount need to keep it alive, I now see, is so great as to override any other principle whatever” . These are deeply anxious and disturbing days for those whose eyes are open and who value freedom. But provided we are alert and alive to the danger, then the human will of the growing and quietly determined majority must prevail. [end p52] The responsibility that rests upon the Conservative Party is huge and humbling. But as Autumn moves towards Winter and we brace ourselves for the great task that lies ahead, let us make this promise to the British people. We will discharge that task with all our strength and all our faith. We shall not fail our country. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc want begin confession not greatly care opposition applause certain plan deal situation applause believe essence politic look day conservative principle practice government applause look day throw socialist yoke turn task set country road real lasting recovery end day postpone not thursday day like thursday believe day prove turningpoint time labour party appointment voter prospect relish applause sack say mr callaghan people chance jim em chance laughter applause will not course dare not instead government steel backbone ve get david steelsteel pocket laughter applause end week brighton accuse insatiable lust power tory wheel deal manoeuver manipulate avoid thing cost face voter labour limpet government applause liblab pact labour political principle liberal genuine conviction courage stand believe stand lose seat well lose seat selfrespect end liberal keep office government year overspent overtax interfered nationalise debase currency bankrupt britain applause short act like labour government mr healey blandly refer horror chancellor exchequer ve guess healey horror deluge laughter applause financial position reverse degree say chancellor flourish policy reverse degree order international monetary fund applause end month ago man take country cliff eleventh hour turn heathrow panic head home massive mortgage history begin section check bbc radio news report october prescription imf force government swallow prescription long advocate good sound sensible conservative prescription message moses take tablet laughter applause end section check bbc radio news report october labour want election slogan suggest thought like helpful know imf government work laughter applause end commentator say james callaghanprime minister steal clothe true s lose s go look pretty ridiculous walk laughter applause course deeply thankful wealth north sea start flow north sea socialist sea oil socialist oil find private enterprise drill private enterprise bring ashore private enterprise applause let picture perspective end oil come stream balance payment go look healthy s good news britain sterling safe socialist slide s good news britain standard living people rise little catastrophic fall good news britain ve say good news britain good news conservative party applause end look close truth grind gear factory produce labour come power real profit investment abysmally low number man woman job high war s bad news britain price catch government boast success bring rate inflation fall far mr healey predict today joel barnettnumber believe price britain go fast country end labour survive year price double power double s economic miracle economic personal disaster brighton week see socialism wear preelection face beware leopard quiet not change spot not want victim know applause quiet week brighton want people believe gentle wellbehave social democratic pussycat laughter applause end know drill runup election claw labour extremist not draw withdraw man parade talk quietly moderately sensibly leftwing allow little outing voter trap suppose election supreme effort imagine labour win trap sprung labour extremist resume drive britain model eastern europe not happen end brighton annual election labours national executive produce lineup single leftwinger lose executive produce labour programme britain programme remain official labour party policy mr benn frank hope public not listen nationalise bank insurance company s labour policy like idea hand saving fancy mr healey mr benn friendly neighbourhood bank manager end want nationalise land demand free hand firm big small building industry food industry fishing forestry port s policy want power business obey want cut tax relief home buyer want high income tax pay plan want immediate wealth tax capital gain tax capital transfer tax s point build saving business go away little red book official labour party policy end easy ram frightening socialist programme ve vote abolish house lord cosy brighton reality labour applause end ask election come actually appear manifesto win soon later ll labour win election tribune group grow strong strong strong election labours programme get mean narrow marxist britain beware signpost read way total socialist state end destroy freedom cherish defend century will not worry far leave like eastern europe alas go live living standard low let today true difference party real choice nation people think man woman vote labour life turn ashfield stechford workington walsall know labour party vote labour party today party hugh gaitskell party fit andy bevan peter hain applause end disillusion disenchanted courageous converted welcome cause job clean labour job ditch extremist hand hand people special thursday watch wait work voter switch labour conservative election slash size tribune group swing size tribunite lose seat end britain conservative government truly moderate government moderate order foreign creditor genuine conviction touch tune people carry sort sensible prudent policy work country course s picture opponent paint let personal prophecy come month carefully orchestrate campaign labour party labour government portray extremely extremely mention extremely battery extremist label bandy bandy close election loom fast furious bandying end let tell little extremism extremely careful extreme extremely aware dangerous duplicity socialism extremely determined turn tide destroy hold dear applause extremely disinclined deceive mask moderation labour adopt election offing mask wear see week red flag fly end help conservative party fly flag nation flag union jack applause socalled extremism s word opponent like word reactionary thatcher government like sound little time hear laughter applause reactionary end react politic year undermine way life devastate economy s reactionary reactionary vast majority british people applause believe government far big know answer downgrade individual upgrade state believe cut government diminish authority contrary government well strengthen authority end approach simply chinese philosopher century ago govern great nation counsel cook small fish not overdo applause ask conservative government cut control regulation interference people live minimum answer yes exactly shall good reply fullbloode socialism milk water socialism genuine conservatism applause year curb power state end ask remember prefer steady increase prosperity tory year whitehot socialist stagnation messrs wilson callaghan fruit shall ye know fruit socialism prosperity new job stable price low taxis money create thrive economy spend school hospital pensioner sick disabled end today know socialism broken promise break promise fair prosperous society socialism society fairer fair britain rich poor distribute reward achievement widely decimate applause let ask ask question labour answer policy right work start thing tell step forward end step message prepared settle second fourth good britain applause believe decline inevitable believe accident nature coast recovery automatic believe confront yes confront reality pin trust skill resource courage people country work salvation regain prosperity respect selfrespect end people regard dangerous talk tory want change want challenge rule idea policy govern socialist society risky murmur right course risky upset arthur scargill jack jones well well root heart choice face nation worry jack jones leader party live worry ordinary people not live applause end s election crucial election crucial time choice decisive generation time country vote settle party entrust immense benefit north sea oil socialist profit free enterprise purchase socialism power state conservative ll power people applause end choice classic choice labour year shall say set people free key question ask conservative government free trade union trade union allow conservative government govern end yes word allow people ask question half way labours trap ve swallow bait ripe catch position government dare fight record manifesto acceptable marxist left people britain like unimaginative parrot repeat tory will not able work union end time come jack jones expect mutter hugh scanlon david basnett actually clive jenkin certainly shout laughter will not true union leader determined true hypothetical situation end suppose determined suppose ve mind task elect conservative government impossible face situation unelected minority intent getting rid government not control replace union leader seriously intend use industrial muscle political end not believe people ask happen handful man great power hold nation ransom end answer possible situation arise example vital nationalise industry present conflict government trade union false real conflict union people applause people suffer case duty government government act parliament behalf nation end vital issue government decisive action single specific matter important government know support majority people begin section check bbc radio news report october context context suggest referendum test public opinion circumstance special circumstance let people speak applause hope believe situation arise end section check bbc radio news report october like final point union end strong responsible trade union movement essential country right respect belief right precedence right law fatal country happily great majority trade unionist know well leader know leader represent work represent parliament conservative party look forward long fruitful association union end conservative britain interest union member rest community know taxis today high torpedo talent cut conservative shall cut income tax worthwhile work hard learn skill applause want good brain britain bring home drive abroad end want hold enterprising businessman reward match risk build firm want renew spark incentive economy new job create want leave money pocket spend please applause aim tax collect decline industry civil servant inland revenue sailor british navy laughter end government not cut spend cut spend s hand people want today s government hand pocket laughter applause positive approach key get industry go not believe government run industry well people work not end country successful owe economic achievement free enterprise benefit confine citizen spread community benefit tide come boat rise course government modern industrial society certainly sensible conservative government wholly withdraw market place end government support ail industry produce ail economy selective circumstance exceptional support direct override aim move firm red black independence quickly possible sure recipe industrial blight government give amount blanket guarantee virtually firm save consequence mistake firm nation behave indefinitely little difference profit loss high production low success failure end churchill finger socialist idea say make profit vice real vice make loss end like worker help create profit share labour party want union leader board director want employee vote shareholder company meeting applause conservative government hope stake industry home conservative family party believe healthy society people able buy roof head end council tenant right law buy home applause legislation promise announce queen speech conservative government applause let labour party offer newlywed place waiting list house council estate offer place belong home start life later bring child applause happen child school end get stop destroy good school equality main victim labour recent attack direct grant school able child family begin section check bbc radio news report october people sort background need grammar school compete child privileged home like shirley williams anthony wedgwood benn applause end section check bbc radio news report october aim education simple raise standard child end mean fight far vigorously small minority believe principal purpose education instil contempt democratic institution s education political propaganda reason tax payer pay applause destroyer destroy respect law order civilised society base people ask m go fight crime issue election go issue people britain go issue applause end old people city centre terrified night go issue tax payer rate payer meet bill mindless vandalism go issue parent worry sick child go issue begin section check bbc radio news report october yes law order issue vital issue election think s right wing talk worker factory woman supermarket applause end section check bbc radio news report october conservative government resource police applause undermanned poorly pay bring strength money job applause end beginning section check bbc radio news report october intend sit sideline wring hand london glasgow manchester birmingham rest city way new york end section check bbc radio news report october violence britain deeply disturb endure people northern ireland nearly year end happen ulster touch country united kingdom let people ulster assure conservative party stand rockfirm union great britain northern ireland today express deep lasting admiration betty williams mairead corrigan belfast peace woman award nobel peace prize applause courage symbolise western world yearning people ulster peace honour royal ulster constabulary ulster defence regiment serviceman northern ireland applause end wish member armed force defend freedom part world high place socialist priority labour party cut present future spending defence staggering figure billion sort government neglect welfare serviceman sort government force frontline soldier claim rent rebate make worse people not try work end armed force poorly pay deny equipment store backup training know vital job bad antiwestern wing labour party call gigantic cut defence roy masonlabour defence secretary say mean good neutrality bad surrender government neglect defence government let nato badly ally rebuke publicly government spend money nationalisation cut spending defence realm end promise president carter month conservative government defence high priority demand applause conservative government troop properly pay increase defence spending meet obligation ally strengthen defence west restore morale fighting service let forget duty freedom defend applause end end purpose enter politic year ago hall platform speak time leader party remember nervousness pride try tell personal vision hope country people feel deeply responsibility today feel deeply end happen october year ago speak man right work spend earn property state servant master today threat democratic value double redouble know country fear feel british way life know letter receive know hope ride today hope million conservative million look feel instinctively happen country threaten freedom materially morally great end paul johnson express movingly writer clarity day resign labour party come appreciate time life write overwhelming strength attachment individual spirit paramount need alive great override principle deeply anxious disturbing day eye open value freedom provide alert alive danger human grow quietly determine majority prevail end responsibility rest conservative party huge humbling autumn move winter brace great task lie ahead let promise british people discharge task strength faith shall fail country copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill allows permanent expensing of property used in the mining, reclaiming, or recycling of certain critical minerals and metals within the United States and of nonresidential real property used in mining such minerals and metals. Expensing is the treatment of expenditures as operating costs deductible in full in the current taxable year. The bill allows a new tax deduction for 200% of the cost of purchasing or acquiring such critical minerals and metals extracted from deposits in the United States and a 22% rate of percentage depletion for such critical minerals and metals. The bill requires the Department of the Interior to establish a pilot project grant program for the development of critical minerals and metals in the United States. A grant awarded under such program may not exceed $10 million. In awarding grants, Interior must give priority to projects determined to be economically viable over the long term and must allot not less than 30% of grants funds to the secondary recovery of critical minerals and metals.

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bill allow permanent expensing property mining reclaiming recycling certain critical mineral metal united states nonresidential real property mine mineral metal expensing treatment expenditure operating cost deductible current taxable year bill allow new tax deduction cost purchase acquire critical mineral metal extract deposit united states rate percentage depletion critical mineral metal bill require department interior establish pilot project grant program development critical mineral metal united states grant award program exceed million award grant interior priority project determine economically viable long term allot grant fund secondary recovery critical mineral metal

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill imposes additional restrictions on the U.S. government's authority to vote on Special Drawing Rights (SDR) allocations at the International Monetary Fund (IMF). (The SDR is an international reserve asset maintained by the IMF based on contributions from IMF member countries. SDRs may be exchanged between member countries and may also be exchanged for currencies.) Under current law, U.S. representatives to the IMF may not vote for SDR allocations to the United States beyond an amount authorized by statute unless Congress authorizes such a vote. This bill further reduces the allocation amount that U.S. representatives to the IMF may vote for without congressional approval. Furthermore, U.S. representatives to the IMF may not vote for SDR allocations to a country if the President finds that the country's government has (1) committed genocide in the last 10 years, or (2) repeatedly supported international terrorism.

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bill impose additional restriction government authority vote special drawing right sdr allocation international monetary fund imf sdr international reserve asset maintain imf base contribution imf member country sdr exchange member country exchange currency current law representative imf vote sdr allocation united states authorize statute congress authorize vote bill reduce allocation representative imf vote congressional approval furthermore representative imf vote sdr allocation country president find countrys government committed genocide year repeatedly support international terrorism

This bill directs the Department of Agriculture to establish a biochar research network of not more than 20 research stations or facilities to test the impact of biochar across various soil types, application methods, and climates to learn more about its potential to benefit farmers and the environment.

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bill direct department agriculture establish biochar research network research station facility test impact biochar soil type application method climate learn potential benefit farmer environment

Sep 27, 2020 Donald Trump held a rally in Middletown, Pennsylvania on September 26. He talked about his Supreme Court nomination of Amy Coney Barrett, which he announced earlier in the day. He also took shots at Joe Biden before the first presidential debate. There was also a “lock him up” chant referring to Barack Obama. Read the full transcript of his speech here. Transcribe Your Own Content Try Rev and save time transcribing, captioning, and subtitling. Speaker 1: (00:06)USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA. Donald Trump: (00:08)Well, we won Pennsylvania last time and we’re going to win it by a lot more this time I can see. Because four years ago we had a lot of enthusiasm, but we have more now. Even the fake news will admit that. They [crosstalk 00:00:23]. There’s more than we’ve ever had. Donald Trump: (00:27)Hello Pennsylvania. Thank you very much for being here in the rain. As we stand together in the rain, it’s supposed to bring luck and we’ll take it. Ah, my man. I just came from the Rose Garden of the White House. Thank you very much, and I love you too. I do. Thank you. Or I wouldn’t have done this. I wouldn’t have done it. Donald Trump: (01:12)But we’re doing well. Our country’s going to be stronger than ever before very soon. You watch. It’s happening. It’s all happening beautifully. It’s happening. We had to close it down. We saved millions of lives. We opened it up and we’re doing record kind of numbers, and we’re going to have the best year and we’re going to have a great third quarter, so thank you very much. Donald Trump: (01:39)I’ve just come from the Rose Garden of the White House, where I proudly nominated Judge Amy Coney Barrett to the United States Supreme Court. Judge Barrett is a brilliant legal mind, an extraordinary scholar. You know that. Number one in her class. You know the professor, one of the most respected people, he said the greatest student he’s ever had. That’s pretty good. That’s a little better than Biden, wouldn’t you say? She should be running for president instead of … Donald Trump: (02:15)Now it’s a little bit better, academically, slightly better. Most important of all, she will defend your God-given rights and freedoms. She will. Judge Barrett would become the third Supreme Court justice along with over 300 … think of this. This is our third domination. We have Justice Gorsuch, Justice Kavanaugh, and now we have Amy, along with over 300 federal judges by the end of this term. We’ve confirmed to uphold our laws and constitution as written, and that’s a record. Donald Trump: (02:54)Joe Biden has refused to provide his list because the names will be handpicked by socialists like Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, AOC plus three and Ilhan Omar. That’s a great one. She’s a great one. Always complaining. She’s always complaining. Came here, things worked out for her. How did she come here? Does anybody know how she came here? AOC plus three. That’s a beauty. That’s a group of real … They love our country so much. Donald Trump: (03:32)They’ve given power. The far left will pack the Supreme Court with radicals who will terminate the second amendment. That’s what they want to do, strike the words under God from your Pledge of Allegiance, tear down crosses from public spaces and force taxpayers to fund extreme late-term abortion. That’s what they’re looking to do. Donald Trump: (03:56)These left-wing justices will cripple police departments, protect sanctuary cities and declare the death penalty unconstitutional for even the most depraved mass murders. It’s unconstitutional. We will save your second amendment and together we will save our country, and that’s what we’re doing. Speaker 1: (04:18)USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA. Donald Trump: (04:37)That’s a lot of people. We have tens of thousands of people. If sleepy Joe came here, I really mean this, you know the little circles he fills and he can’t get them full? You have like five of them, those circles, those big beautiful … Whoever does it does a nice job. They’re very round. But he’s got five of them and then he stands very far back and walks in. I mean, I don’t get the whole deal there. I don’t get it. Donald Trump: (05:14)We have tens of thousands. Somebody said 17, 18,000. Last night we had 35,000 people. You saw that in Virginia. We’re making a play for Virginia because we have a governor in Virginia, you know that, he wants to totally end … All he does is talk about terminating the second amendment. That’s all he talks about. That’s all he talks about. In 38 days, we will win the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We will win four more years in the White House. Right? Thank you. Speaker 1: (05:41)Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Donald Trump: (05:41)Thank you. Speaker 1: (05:41)Four more years. Donald Trump: (06:03)Thank you very much. Great honor. It’s a great honor. We’ve achieved a lot together. It’s together is what happened. Wait’ll you see the numbers on November 3rd. Get out and vote. Go early vote. Do whatever you have to do. Make sure they don’t cheat you too badly with those ballots. Donald Trump: (06:18)Did you see today? There was a big mishap with the ballots. Another one. This is every day they have that, Mike. Every day, big mishap with the ballots. One of them, New York has said, “Well, we’re going to change the system a little bit.” It’s a little late for doing that, isn’t it? New York wants to change their system. They’re going to work on something. Governor Cuomo, he’s going to work on something now. Well, the ballots are flowing. It’s a little late. Donald Trump: (06:45)Then in a certain location, you know the location, they mailed a thousand ballots out. Unfortunately they doubled it up and everybody in this Democrat area got two ballots instead of one. Then two days ago they found eight ballots in a wastepaper basket. Unfortunately, they all had the name Trump written on them. We were going to vote for Trump. They were military ballots, the military. Donald Trump: (07:12)Then they have a stream in a very good state and they found lots of ballots dumped in this stream. Look, look, this is not right. What they’re doing is not right. It’s all run by these ballots, the ones we’re talking about, whether it’s Pennsylvania, because we’re going to win in Pennsylvania. You got to watch, but you have a governor who’s in charge of ballots. Donald Trump: (07:35)North Carolina, Michigan, Nevada, all of these places, they’re all run by Democrats. They’re the ones that count the ballots. Does anybody have even a doubt? It’s just common sense. It’s common sense. We’re going to be very careful. We’re going to watch. You know we’re waiting for rulings from a great federal judge in your state, federal judge, about the constitutionality of the whole thing. They’re going to try and steal the election. Look at this crap. The only way they can win Pennsylvania, frankly, is to cheat on the ballots. That’s the way I look at it. That’s the way I look at it. Donald Trump: (08:13)They just had a big thing today. They said there was a mistake made on a lot of the ballots. They’re going to try and redo the system. Take a look at Iowa during the primary. Remember the first primary? They couldn’t do anything. It was all a mess. It was all a mess. Good job. Good job. Look at this guy. Good job. Good job. Hey, good job. Speaker 1: (09:04)USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA. Donald Trump: (09:06)That guy, he’s going home to his parents now. He’s going to be in big trouble. But wait a minute, wait, wait. He just opened his mouth and we had that gentleman in the beautiful blue … Will you stand up? Stand up. Man. Are you in law enforcement because you were on him. This guy hadn’t gotten the first word out. That’s the kind of guy I want working for me right there. Man, great. That was just instinct. That’s called natural instinct. Some people have it and some people don’t. Unfortunately, most people don’t. That’s the problem. Donald Trump: (09:50)Under my administration, we proudly achieved energy independence. We are now the number one producer of oil and natural gas in the world. Sleepy Joe Biden has vowed to ban fracking. That’s not good for Pennsylvania. You notice now he’s trying to pull back? Donald Trump: (10:12)He went to a place called Texas, no oil, no God and no guns in Texas. That doesn’t work. But you know what? Doesn’t work here either. You’re a big fracker. It’s a big business here, 900,000 jobs, but he wants to eradicate all of the things that you’re doing, all of the things that are bringing in so much money for your state. It’s a disgrace. Now he’s trying to say, “Well, I didn’t really mean that.” Donald Trump: (10:39)That was like Hillary. Remember? She made a horrible statement about clean coal and then she went, crooked Hillary, and then she went three weeks later … I agree. Donald Trump: (10:55)All right. I used to say, “Now, now, now, we won, we won. Now, don’t do it.” But didn’t say [inaudible 00:11:11], but I try and stop it. But now I, she’s crazy. Bill is stone cold afraid of her. No, but how about remember the emails? You think we forgot? We didn’t forget the emails. You remember the emails when Congress said, “We want 33,000 emails,” and they deleted the emails? They deleted everything, the text messages, everything, they deleted. If Mike Kelly did that he’d be out of a job so fast. He’d be gone, right? He’d be gone. None of us, we wouldn’t last long. I mean the corruption. Donald Trump: (11:55)Hey, did you see though, over the last 48 hours, the FBI tapes, the FBI text messages? Trump was right. The one guy says, “Trump was right. He was right. You shouldn’t be doing this. Trump was right.” He was the honest one. But they brought him along. We need insurance. We have to get insurance for this. This is wrong, what we’re doing. Trump was right. Donald Trump: (12:18)It turned out that it was a whole big dis-information deal. You know who the guilty party is? The Democrats and Hillary, they were the ones that dealt with Russia. It wasn’t us, which we’ve been saying for a long time. No, these text messages just came out. Did you see that? They just came out. Donald Trump: (12:41)We went through two and a half years of a lot of work and they ruined a lot of people. Look at General Flynn. Look at what happened. Those messages about General Flynn last night just came out. They knew he was innocent. They said, “We want Flynn in order to get Trump. We want Flynn.” They were after Trump. It came out loud and clear. They were after Trump. Donald Trump: (13:03)I’ll tell you what, we got to get back to Congress and go after these people. These people are sick. They’re sick. It was a whole big con job with shifty Schiff and the whole group. Shifty Schiff, he gets up and says a totally different thing than what I said, totally different. They say, “Sir, you can’t go after him because he’s shielded because he made this speech.” He totally lied. He made it in Congress and he can say anything. Donald Trump: (13:32)See, it shouldn’t be the opposite. When you’re in Congress, you should be more honest. What a sleazebag he is, right? He [crosstalk 00:13:40]. What a sleazebag he is. What a jerk. What a jerk. We got to deal with people like that. I’ll tell ya. I’ll tell ya. How do you come together with people like that, they’re totally dishonest, because I want the country to come together. We were coming together until we got hit with a plague from China. We were coming together. I was getting calls from stone, cold, radical left, hard line Democrats, let’s start talking. I’m telling you, because we had the best unemployment numbers we ever had, the best economy, best stock market, although the stock market right now is just about there. Donald Trump: (14:24)Success will bring us together. Then we got hit with the plague from China and now we have to do it all over again. It’s make America great again again. That’s what we got to do. But we saved millions of lives by doing what we did. Donald Trump: (14:40)When they ask about fracking, sleepy Joe Biden said that he would make sure it’s eliminated. This was just a little while ago. Then he gets the nomination, he goes, “Well, I didn’t think fracking’s that bad.” It’s amazing, isn’t it? That’s what you call a really dishonest, dumb politician. A dumb guy. He’s a dumb guy. Always known as the dumb guy. Donald Trump: (15:05)But we look forward to seeing him in the debate. He’s got a lot more experience. He’s got 47 years. I’ve got three and a half years, so we’ll see. He’s got 47 years of experience. I always sort of smile when he said, like [inaudible 00:15:18], “We should have done this. We should have done that. We should have,” all these things. I said, “Why didn’t you do them?” He’s been there for … It’s not like he left 20 years ago, 47 years and he left three and a half years ago. Why the hell didn’t you do them? Now he went, it’s all these great ideas. That’s a real beauty. Donald Trump: (15:36)Days ago, Biden reiterated his pledge to require net zero carbon emissions, which he doesn’t have any idea what that means, shutting down all fracking and sending you jobs overseas, like they’ve been doing. I’m bringing your jobs back. They’re all coming back. I’ll keep your jobs in Pennsylvania where they belong. That’s where they belong, what they’ve done to you and other States. Donald Trump: (16:04)Joe Biden’s agenda would also be a nightmare for Pennsylvania seniors. Do we have any seniors here? Don’t raise your hand. Do we have any seniors? Look how few people raised their hands? I can see some seniors. We’re proud of it. Right? Donald Trump: (16:22)For years, Biden tried to cut Social Security and Medicare. You know that. He wants to go … You know what’s going to happen. They’re going to go with socialized medicine if they ever got in. Donald Trump: (16:32)Remember Obama, what he said? By the way, Obama knew all about the scam. He knew all about this coup. He knew all about spying on my campaign. He knew everything. Somebody said, “Well, we can’t go.” They have him [inaudible 00:16:49], they have him [inaudible 00:16:49]. Donald Trump: (17:01)Remember I said they were spying on my campaign a long time ago? The internet blew up. How dare he say that? It turned out to be true. Then it was the coup because I got in. Now they said, “All right, he got in. We couldn’t stop him. Now we’re going to try taking it away.” Can you believe it? This is the USA. No, seriously, can you believe it? We caught them. All these text messages, and from what I hear, they have some real beauties coming out over the next couple of days, so [crosstalk 00:17:27]. When somebody said, “Oh, you can’t do that. He was president.” Well I’m president too and they would not stop. I promise. These people are sick. They’re bad people. Donald Trump: (17:42)Remember when Biden said, “When I argued that we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security.” He meant this. He said, “When I argued,” and he wanted to freeze all this federal spending, he’s not going to take care of your Medicare. He’s not going to take care of your Social Security. If he gets in, he’s going to have nothing to say because the radical left will control it and he’s going to do socialized medicine, as sure as you’re sitting or standing there. I don’t, I can’t even tell the hell difference. You’re sitting. Donald Trump: (18:17)Isn’t it nice we got seats for people? Who would do that? Look at all the police back there. Are they the greatest? Great guys. They’re great people. We got so many endorsements, I don’t even talk about them anymore. We have so many police endorsements. New York City’s finest, never did it before. They endorsed me. They endorsed us for president. They could solve that problem in New York. All they’d have to do is let them do … Donald Trump: (19:03)They could solve that problem in New York. All they’d have to do is let them do their job and don’t take a billion dollars away and fire some of the best people on the force, which is what they did. We got Chicago. Think of that. Chicago police endorse me. How about that? This is not easy to do. You’re dealing with radical left people. We got endorsed by all the sheriffs in Florida, all law enforcement in Florida. We got endorsed by Texas, Oklahoma. We got endorsed by… Does anybody know of any police area or group that has not endorsed us? We’re looking for them. We’re looking. Donald Trump: (19:37)Now Biden is pledging to give federal healthcare to illegal aliens, which is decimating. Medicare. Just saying this, that we all have heart. We want to help people. But the problem is when you say that, people that never even thought of coming to the United States say, “Let’s go.” “Where are we going?” We get free education. We get free Medicare free healthcare. And then I jokingly said, one time, “Everybody gets a beautiful brand new Rolls Royce.” And CNN said, “He lied. He said that all illegal immigrants got a $750,000 car.” It’s true. They said he lied. I didn’t. I was only kidding. They said I lied over the Rolls Royce. You remember when I said, “Russia, if you’re listening, find her emails.” Or whatever the hell I said. “Find her emails.” And then we all laughed together. 25,000 people in the stadium on television. Look at all the cameras on television. Look at those people. Look at all those red lights that are going on. They’re standing in the rain just like I am, but they don’t like it. But do you remember? But the problem is they cut it off exactly before we all started to laugh together. Right? And for two years they’ve been saying, “He dealt with Russia. He asked Russia to please get her emails.” Or whatever the hell we were asking for “Russia, if you’re listening, please get…” The whole place cracks up along with me. In fact, they cut off my last word. You know, they got to cut it short because they don’t want to see any sign. Donald Trump: (21:18)This is how dishonest. They are really, I’ll tell you, they’re so bad for the country. But I’ll take it back for right now. Because right now it’s live all over the place. We’ll let it go. You know what? Let’s say it at the end instead. Because so often I’ll say, “You know, they’re CNN, they’re totally corrupt. They’re fake.” And you see the light go off there, the red light. I said, “I got to stop saying that.” Do you think it’s wet enough out here? They all said, “Sir, would you need a hat?” I said, “What the hell hat is going to match this beautiful tie that I’ve just…” I got a red one. I don’t know, red and whatever the hell color this is. Red is not going to go well with this color. Nah, it’s fine. I like seeing the rain with my friends from Pennsylvania. I don’t care. We’re in the rain together. We’re in the rain together. Donald Trump: (22:33)Thank you. Thank you very much. We’re in the rain together. That’s all right. We’ll stay out here all night if we have to, right? But I’ll tell you, so many interesting things are going on. When I look at their plans… Did you see their plans? The manifesto? That’s the Bernie Sanders and AOC manifesto. Normally when you negotiate with communists, because I don’t think it’s… Haven’t they gone over the… I don’t think it’s… This is no longer socialism. We’re dealing with worst than socialism. This is communism. But when you deal with socialist communists, you’re supposed to bring them a little bit to the right, right? You’re a Democrat, you bring… They started with a plan and they went further left. This plan is the most horrible. We call it the manifesto. Bernie Sanders. Crazy Bernie. But you know the one thing they agree with us? On trade. Because we are being ripped off by so many countries. I’ve stopped a lot of it. Donald Trump: (23:33)I mean, I had to devote a lot of time to a fake impeachment. Now you see how fake the impeachment was. What about Biden’s son getting three and a half million dollars from the wife of the mayor of Moscow? And then they say, “Donald Trump is dealing with Russia. Donald Trump.” I never even made a call. “Donald Trump is dealing.” This guy got three and a half million dollars from the wife of the mayor of Moscow. What the hell was that for? Donald Trump: (24:07)Probably his great experience in energy, but he didn’t have that. And then it revealed yesterday that he got a lot more money from China than we thought and he got a lot more money, right? It’s just all stuff. It’s like perfect. It’s like unbelievable. But he got a lot more money from China and the 100, the 83 or 63,000 a month that he was getting, now it looks like it was 183,000 a month. And he got an upfront payment of $3 million from Ukraine. This is because of his great knowledge of energy, but he had none. They said, “Do you know anything about energy?” “No, I don’t happen to know anything.” Oh. And then the father called for the prosecutor, “Get him out or you’re not getting your billion dollars from the United States.” Whoa. They got him out and here’s your billion. That’s not a quid pro quo. Right? Donald Trump: (25:01)But a perfect phone call is a quid pro quo where nothing was… It’s a disgrace. Well, hopefully we’re getting to the bottom of all that stuff because we got plenty. Biden’s plan for mass amnesty would bankrupt your social security system. You remember me when I got elected, they all said, “Oh, he’s going to hurt…” They love to say that’s going to hurt because they give dis-information. They say a lie like the soldiers and the graves and they put it in. Can you imagine? No animal that I know would say that. Nobody. They make up a lie and then they go with it. Social security. They said four years ago. Now they said again. By the way, your social security, we never touched it. Not even touched it. They said he will destroy your social security. No. They will destroy it because they’ll destroy your country and your social security will be worthless. That’s what’s going to happen. Donald Trump: (25:52)In just three and a half years, we’ve secured America’s borders, rebuilt the awesome power of the US military, obliterated 100% of the ISIS [inaudible 00:07:07]. Fixed our disastrous trade deals and brought jobs back home to America and back home to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Under 16 years of presidents, Obama and Bush, household income rose only $2,945. These are right out of the book. So 16 years, less than 3,000. In three years with us, it rose 6,483. So much less than half [inaudible 00:07:42]. And if you include energy savings, how do you like paying those $2 for a gasoline and even less [inaudible 00:26:51]? And your electric bill is way down. Donald Trump: (26:54)We’re number one in the world. How do you like that? If you include that, it’s $10,000. That’s over three years, three and a half years. We lifted 6.6 million people out of poverty, which is a wreck. We built the greatest economy in the history of the world. Now we are very, very rapidly… You see the numbers. It’s happening all over again. We’ve added a historic 10.6 million jobs in the last four months. There’s never been a record like that. We’ve added more jobs than any time, four months, not even close. To fight the China virus, we launched the largest national mobilization since World War II. Donald Trump: (27:31)They said, “How did you do it?” I say we get an A plus, but I get a D in public relations because we were so busy working. When you give it to the fake news, they report it incorrectly. So I figured what’s the use of even dealing with it? We did a job, including ventilators that nobody had. We took over. The cupboards were bare when we took over. We pioneered life saving therapies, reducing the fatality rate 85% since April. Whoever heard of that? And Europe, which is having a big surge right now, they used to use Europe, “Oh, look how Europe is doing.” We’re doing well. We don’t want them to have a surge. Europe has had almost a 50% greater excess mortality rate than the United States. You don’t want to hear that. They don’t want to tell you that. Early and aggressive action saved millions of lives through operation warp speed. We will develop and distribute a vaccine in record time. Donald Trump: (28:34)We’re going to have it very, very soon. They’re very upset with the vaccine. They’re very upset with the vaccine because it’s happening too soon. They don’t want it now. Even though it’s saving lives, it’s going to save tremendous lives, they don’t want to hear it. They don’t want to hear about the therapies. They just want to get through the election. I heard one state… Did you hear this? We’re going to open up our schools on November 6th. Oh. I told you that, right? Don’t worry about it, Pennsylvania. Your state’s going to be open like on November 4th. This was some idiot. And now they’re excoriating this person that said it. They’re excoriating the person that said it. We’re to open up out of schools in November 6 to latest November 9th. Oh, that’s nice. Got to open your schools. You’ve got to open up your state. Open it up. Donald Trump: (29:23)The ones that are doing well are the ones that opened it up. We will crush the virus. Our opponents will crush America. And that’s what it’s about. They will. They will deliver a crippling shutdown and a steep. You will have… If sleepy Joe Biden becomes president, first of all, you’re going to have a massive tax increase. You’re going to see interest rates go through the ceiling. You will have a depression, the likes of which this country has never seen before. And I’m including 1929. That was a pretty bad one. All right. That’s what’s going to happen. I hope I don’t get a chance to be tested because I don’t want to be tested. I don’t want to have him and say, “See, I was right.” Because with us, you’re going to have incredible prosperity. We’re cutting taxes and we’re growing fast. Donald Trump: (30:09)I’m delivering a safe vaccine in record time. That’s the other thing with the vaccine because of me and the FAA, they’re approving things in a fraction of the time. You wouldn’t have had a vaccine if you had to go through that obsolete process. You wouldn’t have had a vaccine for two and a half more years. On November 3rd, Pennsylvania will decide whether we end the pandemic, defeat the virus and return to record prosperity. Or whether we allow to sleepy Joe Biden to kill the recovery, delay the vaccine, impose a $4 trillion tax hike, destroy your suburbs. Everyone is talking about me and the suburbs. I knocked out the regulation that allows low-income housing in the suburbs. Then I hear oh, the people in the suburbs don’t like me. You better like me because you’re going to have… Your suburbs aren’t going to be so great. They say that women in the suburbs… I made the mistake. I said, “Housewives living in the suburbs.” They said, “Oh, that’s politically incorrect.” Okay. I got killed for that. I used the word housewife. Is that an unacceptable term? I don’t know. Donald Trump: (31:19)They’re all saying no. I said the housewives in the suburbs. And they said, “Oh, what a horrible thing to say.” But women, let’s be politically correct, women and men in the suburbs, they’re changing the zoning so they can build. That’s what it is. They’re changing the zoning. It was a rule, a regulation that was a disaster. I called my people. I said, “I want to terminate it.” They said, “Sir, we can’t do that. Let’s just amend it. We’ll make it much…” “No, no. You don’t understand. I don’t want to amend it. I want to terminate it.” “Yes, sir.” And we terminated it. We terminated it. But if you believe the fake suburb polls, I don’t think people in the suburbs know that I did that. I don’t think they know that I did it. They say, “We want sleepy Joe Biden.” Why? Why do you want him? First of all, you’re not getting him. You’re getting this maniac who was falling like a rock in the polls. He picked somebody that he should have never picked. She was so bad to him. She said such bad things about him. I’m not going to pick somebody that says bad. Then on top of it, 15, 14, 13, 10, eight, seven. Then she went up back to eight. She had a big week. And then she went back down. She got out at one or two. She quit before Iowa, right? Then they had the Iowa primary. Because they used these crazy ballots, nobody ever found out who won. And now they want to use it on a scale that’s a thousand times bigger. 80 million ballots. 80 million ballots. Donald Trump: (32:58)They couldn’t count a small number, but now they’re counting. Then they had the race in New York, Carolyn Maloney, terrible, terrible Congresswoman. And they took it away from the guy that was beating her or would have beat her. But they’re missing massive. It sounded like they’re missing 1%, which would be unacceptable. 1%, you can win by 1%, right? You can win by 1/10 of 1%. But they’re losing… Like there was one area I think 41% of the ballots were missing. 41. These people are crazy. This is going to be a disaster. And all I’m asking is people go out to vote. Go out to vote and stop with this nonsense because we’re going to be counting ballots for the next two years. Donald Trump: (33:40)I don’t want to end up in the Supreme Court, and I don’t want to go back to Congress either. Even though we have an advantage if we go back to Congress. Does everyone understand that? I think it’s 26 to 22 or something because it’s counted one vote per state. So we actually have an advantage. Oh, they’re going to be thrilled to hear that. I’m sure they’re trying to figure out how can we break that one? Biden wants to confiscate your guns and indoctrinate your children with poisonous anti-American lies in schools, right? To combat the toxic left wing propaganda in our schools, I announced last week that we are launching a new pro-American lesson plan for students called the 1776 Commission. We’ll teach our children the truth about America, that we are the most exceptional nation on the face of the earth. We are only getting better. We’re getting better. This is a healing for us. This is the most important election we’ve ever had. I’m telling you. I used to say like even a couple of months ago, well, how do you… Like 2016, that was pretty exciting. Right? Was that exciting? Was that the coolest night? Trump is winning Florida. He’s winning North Carolina. He’s winning Pennsylvania. He’s winning Michigan. He’s winning Wisconsin. He’s winning everything. What the hell is going on? And people crying. They’re crying. The anchors, the non-biased anchors are crying. I watched an interview with a person on MSBNC. I don’t watch it much, but I watched because sleepy Joe was on. She’s like, “Did you see that interview yesterday?” And she’s very tough. Very tough. She’s very nasty. She’s feeding him, can’t answer it. So what she’s doing is… “No, no, isn’t it true? Isn’t it true that Trump is a horrible human being?” Well, yeah. As we discussed before, it’s true. This was the worst, most obvious… And this was a killer. This person is very tough. It is so rigged. The whole thing is rigged. We got to beat the system, and we’re beating the system. Sometimes I’ll look and I’ll have somebody in the office that’s corrupt media person. And I’ll be sitting there complaining how unfair it is. Then I’ll be sitting in the Oval Office, but I’ll be saying how unfair it is. Then I’ll look around the Oval Office. I say, “Wait a minute. It’s unfair, but oh, we’re in the Oval Office and you’re not.” I stopped complaining, Mike. They said, “Oh, this is the Oval Office. Isn’t it?” Donald Trump: (36:41)Joe Biden has surrendered his party to the flag burners, rioters, the anti-police radicals, the anarchists. His running mate urged supporters to donate to a fund that bailed out riders out of jail, including an attempted cop killer. Let’s get him out of jail. 13 members of Biden’s staff donated to the same fund. They donated a lot of money too. We want to get these people out. We want to be called in. You saw what we did in Minneapolis. She called us like a week and a half too late. We went in. How long did that take? About a half hour. It was over. We brought in the National Guard. We told Seattle we’re coming in and they left that night. We’re all set to go in. I was so disappointed. I was disappointed. Donald Trump: (37:35)We were going to make a big statement, but we couldn’t because they said, “Okay.” They left. Shouldn’t have told them. Next time, don’t tell them. If you look at Portland, what a mess, right? That’s an anarchist. That’s sort of like a different… Chicago’s a mess. New York, what they’ve let happen to New York. And we have these great police in Chicago and New York. They can do the job. Just let them do the job. It’s terrible. But you look at- Donald Trump: (38:03)The job, it’s terrible. But, you look at Portland. Portland is anarchist, and you had the guy two weeks ago, remember he shot and killed the young man in the middle of the street, just shot him like … Oh, I don’t want to even say like what because his parents are so devastated. A young man and they shot him and killed him, this one guy, this one animal. Two and a half … That’s right, over his hat. Not our hat, it was another hat, it was a Christian hat. It was a Christian hat, he was a Christian. He was a Christian, and they shot him, killed him instantly. This guy that shot him, everybody knew who he was, right? I said, after two days, “Where is he? Did you arrest him?” No, we didn’t. After two and a half days, “Did you arrest him?” Then I put out on social media, “Why didn’t you arrest him?” Donald Trump: (38:52)You know what, the U.S. Marshal saw it. They went in, and he pulled a gun on them, and 15 minutes it was all over. None of our guys were hurt, and he was dead. This guy was a stone cold killer, and yet they say he was a protestor. He’s not a protestor, an anarchist and a killer, and the U.S. Marshals, thank you. That was an incredible job they did, brave. But the U.S. Marshals … We can solve that problem so easy, we’d put them in there so easy, but they don’t want, the governor doesn’t want them. The governor wants to leave it that way. Can you imagine what a messed up … But many, … Donald Trump: (39:33)This is for years that’s been going on in Portland. I said, “What do the streets look like?” They said, “You wouldn’t believe it. People put up 2 x 4 Sill fronts. They don’t want to buy new because they know somebody’s going to knock them down within two weeks. It’s a terrible thing. The Democrat party’s war on cops is putting our police officers at risk. As president, I will always stand with the heroes of law enforcement. You see how much the people love you? They really do. You know, you don’t hear that. You don’t hear that, but the people love and respect the job you do. You know, you don’t hear it because these maniacs right back there, they don’t know what they’re writing. They do love you and respect you so much. So, thank you very much, thank you. Donald Trump: (40:36)That’s why law enforcement organization around the country, all organizations, that’s why they’re endorsing me and strongly opposing my opponent, and the radical left. My opponent, again, is controlled like a puppet by these people, by these crazy people. I’m proud to have received the first-ever unanimous endorsement from the largest police union in the world, the Fraternal Order of Police. The largest in the world, and we’re joined tonight by their president. A fantastic guy, friend of mine, Pat Yoes, and several hundred of their brave officers. Pat, come on up. Come on up here, Pat. Pat Yoes: (41:35)Mr. President, thank you. You know, across this Nation there are some 800,000 police officers who put on a uniform every day, men and women who go into communities and place their own safety at risk to protect our communities across America. It seems like overnight people have turned their back on America’s law enforcement. We went from public servants to public enemies overnight because many politicians turned their back on us. You, Sir, have never turned your back on America’s law enforcement. So Sir, I am here to tell you that on behalf of America’s largest law enforcement organization, rank and file police organization, we give you our unanimous and enthusiastic endorsement, and we will not turn our back on you. Together we are going to make America safe again. Thank you. Donald Trump: (42:30)Thank you. Wow. Wow. Thank you very much, thank you. Crowd: (42:39)We love Trump. We love Trump. Donald Trump: (42:39)Thank you. Crowd: (42:39)We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. Donald Trump: (42:39)Thank you very much. Crowd: (42:39)We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump. Donald Trump: (43:07)Thank you very much. November 3rd, get out there and vote, and keep your eyes open if you see any shenanigans, which you probably will, okay? If you see people like dumping things, flushing things. If you see people dropping them in a wastepaper basket, seven or eight, right, wastepaper. Keep your eyes open. This is a smart group of people right here. Donald Trump: (43:28)Also with us are a group of warriors from Washington that are fantastic, that love you. We’ll start Dan Meuser. Dan, thank you very much. Where’s Dan? That’s not a very good location, Dan. It’s not like you. Thank you, Dan. Congressman Scott Perry. Scott. Thank you, Scott. Great job. These are warriors, I’m telling you. They fight as hard as you can fight, every one of them. Lloyd Smucker. Lloyd. Thank you. Thank you, Lloyd. Thank you. Thank you, Lloyd. Great job. Congressman Fred Keller. Thank you, Fred. Great job. The great John Joyce. Thanks, John. A real good friend of mine, and somebody that I’ll tell you he’s as tough as they come, and he loves Pennsylvania, Mike Kelly. Thank you, Mike. Donald Trump: (44:43)Do you like having these guys by your side? Also, a man, sort of a legend I would say around here. He told me a long time ago, four years ago he told me, “You’re going to win.” I said, “How do you know?” He said, “I know, I know. I can tell.” He said, “I see people with Trump stuff on that never cared about a politician in their life. Now they’ve got the hat, and the sash, and the belt, and the shoes.” He said, “I’ve never seen …” He called it a long time ago. Former Congressman. We’ve got to get him back in, I guess. Well, he left because he had a lot of good things to do, but he’s fantastic. Oh, we got to get him back, Lou Barletta. Great guy. We have a congressional candidate who I hear is leading, Jim Bognet. Where’s Jim? Jim, I hear you’re leading, Jim. We’ll get involved. You have my total endorsement, okay. You know that. Total endorsement for Jim? My Pennsylvania Campaign Chair, Bernie Comfort. Bernie, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Bernie. Great job. What a great job, huh? Wow. Have you done a job? Thank you. How are we doing by the way, Bernie? Bernie Comfort: (46:02)How are we doing, Candidate? Donald Trump: (46:09)You have done it. Thank you very much. Also, state GOP Chairman, a friend of mine for a long time, Lawrence Tabas. Lawrence, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That’s a great group of people. Thank you all. We’re going to have a big victory. Lawrence, you agree with Bernie, right? I think we’re going to have a big, big victory, bigger than even four years ago. That was good. Remember they wouldn’t announce it. We were like a point up, which some people say is a lot. I think we’ll do a lot better this time, because at that time I said I was going to do things but, you know, a lot of people say things. Now I’ve accomplished more than I ever said I would in the campaign, so it’s different. Donald Trump: (46:56)I think we’re going to have the kind of numbers that people are going to be very surprised at. We’ve spent the last four years reversing the damage Joe Biden inflicted over his 47 years in politics, along with his other friends. He championed every globalist betrayal of Pennsylvania for almost half a century. He supported NAFTA. I got rid of that one. South Korea, renegotiated that one. TPP, got out of that one. China’s entry into the World Trade Organization which he said was a wonderful thing. No it wasn’t, it was a terrible thing. That’s when China took off like a rocket ship, but you know what, China was going to overtake us. For 10 years they said, “2019, 2019, they’re going to overtake …” Guess what, we way outdid them in ’18 and ’19, and we picked up. Donald Trump: (47:53)If you have somebody smart, you got to have somebody smart, but if you have somebody smart in this position, your President, they’ll never overtake you. They’ll never ever … They have more people but they’ll never overtake you if you have somebody smart. Biden’s NAFTA and China deals wiped out one-third of your state’s manufacturing jobs. You know that better than anybody. Biden shouldn’t be asking for your vote, he should be begging for your forgiveness. That’s a little hokey, little hokey, but [inaudible 00:48:24]. Donald Trump: (48:27)In a true sense this election is a choice between Pennsylvania and China, or whatever state we’re talking about and China, but we’re doing well. You know, it’s interesting, we signed a great deal. The farmers have done more business in the last two or three weeks. Biggest corn orders ever. The biggest soybean, biggest cattle, biggest beef orders. But, you know, it doesn’t mean as much to me. The ink wasn’t even dry and the plague came over. Am I right? It wasn’t even dry, it just doesn’t mean what it would have meant. We made a great deal but it doesn’t mean the same anymore, because they could have stopped it from coming here. If Biden wins, China wins, and where’s Hunter wins. Where’s Hunter? Where’s Hunter? Donald Trump: (49:09)He’s a guy walks into China walks out with a billion and a half dollars to manage, and the most sophisticated guys in Wall street, I know I’m this smart, they can’t do that, and it took him 10 minutes, walked out with a billion and a half dollars to manage. You make millions of dollars a year on that. When we win, Pennsylvania wins, and America wins, and that’s what’s happening. For decades our politicians spent trillions of dollars rebuilding foreign nations, fighting foreign wars in areas and countries that you’d never even heard of, and defending foreign borders. Now we’re finally protecting our nation, rebuilding our cities, and we are bringing our jobs, our factories, and our troops back home to the USA where they belong. Crowd: (49:57)USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. Donald Trump: (50:18)Now our opponents are pledging to rejoin the job-killing Paris Climate Accord, a disaster for our country. It was meant to hurt us, it was meant really to take advantage of us. We would have spent trillions of dollars. You would have ended up closing a lot of your plants and factories. I said, “I’m going to do this, I’m going to get out of this crazy deal,” and I did. I said, “Oh, they’re going to kill me.” You know what, the people got it. They understood it. It was ripping off our country, because we have things that they don’t have, like unbelievable wealth under our ground. They don’t want us to use it. Oh, that’s nice, that’s a wonderful thing. Thank you very much. I withdrew from that catastrophe because I was elected to fight for Pennsylvania, not for Paris. We’re putting America first. It’s been a long time, right? From day one I put America first. To defend our workers I imposed tariffs on foreign aluminum and foreign steel. I saved our auto industry by withdrawing from the horrible Trans-Pacific Partnership. It would have killed … Donald Trump: (51:25)What I’ve done for Michigan, in particular, also Pennsylvania, but what I’ve done for them with autos, forget it. They’re building 17, or expanding 17, different plants. They hadn’t built one in 42 years and we’re building a lot of them. We have countries, you want to do business with us, go in and build auto plants. I ended the NAFTA nightmare and signed the brand new U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement into law, which is great. You’re not going to be losing companies to Mexico and Canada, very disadvantageous for them to do that. I took the toughest ever action to stand up to China’s rampant theft of Pennsylvania’s jobs. I proudly signed the historic Executive Order making it official government policy to buy American and hire American. Donald Trump: (52:19)Now, I watched Biden two weeks ago. What’s going on? This lid, do you know what a lid is? He keeps putting, Bernie, keeps putting a lid. He’s got a lid. It’s 8:00 o’clock in the morning. Now a lid means you’re out for the day. That means the fake news media can go home. You know, he’s got one … Isn’t that the easiest job I’ve ever seen, they never have to work. The media, please go home. There won’t be any activity from sleepy Joe Biden today. He’s a low-energy individual. Now, you need a president with a lot of energy. You deal with President Xi of China, President Putin of Russia, Kim Jong-un. Remember we’re going to be in a war with North Korea, right? What happened? What happened to the war? A lot happened? We didn’t do anything, say anything. We didn’t do anything but millions of people could have been killed in that nuclear war, it probably would have been nuclear. But look at it. You know, getting along with these foreign nations is not a bad thing. They say, “Oh, he gets along.” Yeah. Donald Trump: (53:28)I asked Obama, I was sitting … He told me the biggest problem we had was North Korea, and he was telling me why. He was telling me lots of horror stories. I said, “Uh, excuse me, have you ever tried calling him?” I got nominated for two Nobel Peace Prizes. Can you believe it? One is for Israel and Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates, right? By the way, many countries are coming and they’re all calling now. “We want to come in.” They’re going to all come in. No more blood in the sand. No, we just did it smart. We reversed it. The art of the deal. It’s the art of common sense, let me tell you. We reversed it, and many countries are going to come in. Donald Trump: (54:24)I told this story the other night. Then I got one for Kosovo and Serbia. They’ve been killing each other for many years, just killing each other. They don’t get along, they don’t. They’re sort of like the Palestinians and Israel. So, I have two, I have Kosovo and … You know, we’re dealing with both of them. I said to them, “Why are you fighting and killing each other?” They have a lot of differences, including a religious difference, I guess. I said, “What are you doing?” We trade with both, so we have certain power. So I said, “Listen, let’s get a deal. Let’s make economic peace, and ultimately peace.” They came to my office, the Oval Office, to sign. They were hugging. They were so, I mean it was a beautiful thing to see. We saved a lot of lives. Donald Trump: (55:04)I told this last night, I said to my, … I said to my great First Lady, our great First Lady. “Melania,” I said, “Melania, First Lady.” I said, “First Lady, Oh, I’ve got to watch television tonight. I’m going to come home early,” because let me tell you 6:30 is very early. I stay in there late. “I’m going to come home early. I’m going to show you what a great job. I just got nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, and we’re going to sit there and I’m going to just soak it in, Darling. Let’s turn on NBC fake news, Lester Holt. Number two rated show, he’s number two, heading south. I find NBC to be worse than the other [inaudible 00:55:58]. They spend all that money on their PR and I screw it up in one evening like this. Donald Trump: (56:02)When Obama got it nobody knew what he got it for, including him. Remember, they said, “What did you get it for?” “I don’t know.” That’s how different … We have to work harder. He got a Nobel Prize and he didn’t have any idea why he got it, and then he started dropping bombs two weeks later on some place that didn’t work out. It couldn’t work out because he had John Kerry negotiating, who was the worst incompetent. Now, it’s so sad that Iran, that horrible deal. That was a fast plane. That must’ve been one of the new ones we just bought. We have all new equipment, that was scary. If I’m the enemy I don’t want to hear that sound. Donald Trump: (56:50)I said to our First Lady, First Lady, turn on the television, turn it on, Darling. It’s going to be a big evening. I’d toast you but I don’t drink, Darling. I just don’t drink. Not so- Donald Trump: (57:03)I’d toast you, but I don’t drink tonic. Just don’t drink. Not so bad. So we turned it on and they did a story on the weather. It was raining heavily in a certain area, and they did a story on something else, something else, and something else. Then they went into another story, then another, and then they had a commercial that lasted for about nine minutes. Even though they’re not supposed to make money, they’re using our free airwaves for fake news. Okay. They’re using free airwaves. Think about that. We’re thinking about that. We’re thinking about that. Why are they using free airwaves to give fake news? So it came toward the end, I said, “Darling, I’m a little embarrassed.” But the following day, I got nominated for another one. I called her up. I said, “Maybe they forgot. So let’s go home and turn on the television.” Donald Trump: (57:47)It was the same thing. They had another story that this time they’re cleaning up the rain. Another one, another one, another one, got to the commercial, never ended, kept back a little tiny piece. And I said, ” They didn’t cover two Nobel prizes.” I got two in one week. Did you ever hear that one? For different things, totally unrelated. And my only complaint is I should have gotten about seven or eight, because if you knew some of the other things, some of the other things I’ve done them much better. I should have gotten seven. Donald Trump: (58:17)But the fake news never even put it on. And somebody had a show where they said the amount of time devoted to Donald Trump’s Nobel Peace Prize, two of them, zero on the network, zero, than the amount of time devoted to something else that was negative for somebody in the Republican party. Like infinite. It is so disgraceful. They’re so bad, but we just have to keep on winning. There’s nothing like winning. Just keep on winning. Keep on winning. Donald Trump: (58:52)See now, they’ll tell that story differently. They won’t tell it as we do it in fun, because I understand them. You have to laugh. If you can’t laugh, you’d be out of here fast, right? Like Beto when he said, “I was born to run for president.” That was on a magazine. He was on a fake magazine, Vanity Fair, which is dying. That sucker’s dying. Boy, those magazines are going down fast. But he was on a fake magazine, Vanity Fair, I think. And he started saying about he had a good week, good week. And he started saying, “I was born to do this. I was born to run for president.” I said, “He’s not going to last very long.” And about two weeks later, it was over. He was put in charge of taking your guns away, though. Bye-bye, you know that, right? Beto, Beto, how do you get the name Beto? He made it a little Spanish because his last name is Beto O’Rourke. Where does the Beto come from? Another phony deal going on there. Donald Trump: (59:49)To protect American workers during the pandemic, I suspended the entry of foreign workers who threatened U.S. jobs, and we will always care for our citizens first. Biden’s pledge to terminate these protections and give away your jobs, under my administration, we’ve achieved the most secure border in U.S. history. And we are just finishing a beautiful wall. That wall 340 miles, 340. They don’t talk about the wall. Crowd: (01:00:26)Build that wall, build that wall. Donald Trump: (01:00:28)Build that wall, build that wall. Crowd: (01:00:28)Build that wall, build that wall, build that wall. Donald Trump: (01:00:34)They don’t talk about the wall. I got sued by Nancy Pelosi, crazy Nancy. I got sued, and I made one big mistake in the wall. I always say, “We have to build the wall, build the wall, build the wall,” right? I should have just said very simply, “We will not build the wall.” The money would have come pouring. They would have insisted that we build it. And remember, walls work. Remember when they said walls don’t work? Walls don’t work. They want to give us drones so we can watch the people pour across the border. Drones, put a drone half a mile up in the air. You can watch everybody come into the United States. No, remember that, though? They said… Donald Trump: (01:01:17)Well, but two things work, and I say it all the time. When you come up, when you’re a brilliant scientist, you develop a new chip, you develop a new laptop or computer, in about three weeks, it’s obsolete. It’s worthless, right? A wall will never be obsolete. And what else won’t be obsolete. A wheel. There’s two things that will never be obsolete, a wall and a wheel. Everything else is trouble. Now we’re up to 330 miles. We’re averaging 10 miles a week. It’s everything to Border Patrol because I got them in. I said, “Fellows, could you give me a little less expensive version, please?” But we have a great wall going, and it’ll be finished very soon. But the press doesn’t talk about the wall anymore. They don’t want to talk. It’s not a good subject for them. Donald Trump: (01:02:04)Since 2017, ICE has successfully arrested half a million illegal aliens with criminal records, including over 145,000 assaults, over 40,000 sex offenses and 5,000 killings. I want to thank ICE. Boy, they get beat up. They get beat up by the media. They’re incredible. You would have… Think of the hundreds of thousands of people they take out of here. Real bad ones, too. Murderers, killers, drug dealers. By contrast, Joe Biden supports open borders, zero deportations. That’s in the manifesto. And sanctuary cities that release violent criminal aliens. That’s what they are. They protect the criminal, not our people. Donald Trump: (01:02:52)If you want to end sanctuary cities, you have only one choice, and that’s vote Republican. You know how bad it is. All of these places that you’re reading about, all of them, they’re all Democrat-run cities and states. All of them. They’re all Democrat-run because they have no law and order. All they have to do is call us and say, we’ll be in, but they have no law and order. They have nothing. They’re all Democrat-run. They’re a disaster. Donald Trump: (01:03:19)We invested $2.5 trillion in the U.S. military and launched the first new branch of the U.S. Armed Forces in nearly 75 years, the Space Force. And that’s going to be very important. I did more in 47 months than sleepy Joe Biden did in 47 years. That’s true. It’s true. We killed the founder and leader of ISIS, al-Baghdadi. We took out the world’s number one terrorist and the mass murderer of American troops and others, Soleimani. I withdrew from the last administration’s disastrous Iran nuclear deal. They paid $150 billion for nothing. They got nothing. I don’t mind the 150. What I mind, they gave 1.8 billion in cash. What is one point… That would fill up this whole area. Right? 1.8, plane loads of cash. That’s when I realized that a president is very powerful. When you can do that, send that money to a foreign country and no friend, it’s crazy. Donald Trump: (01:04:29)I kept my promise, recognized the true capital of Israel, and opened the American embassy in Jerusalem. You know who likes that the most? Evangelicals like it the most. You know that? Evangelicals love it. We were just with Franklin Graham and a lot of great people. They had a very successful event at the Mall today. I don’t know if you heard about it. It was great. Franklin Graham, all of the top evangelical and other leaders. They were great. They were at the White House ceremony today for the Justice. I also recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights. And instead of the endless wars, we are forging peace all over the Middle East and it’s costing nothing, costing nothing. Not killing people, no blood in the sand. They’re tired of fighting, by the way, just in case. Even these people that like to fight, they’re tired. Nineteen years in Afghanistan, they’re tired. They all want to sort of relax, as tough as they may be. Donald Trump: (01:05:38)Joe Biden opposed the mission to take out Osama bin Laden. He opposed killing Soleimani. He voted for the Iraq War. He backed the disastrous Iran nuclear deal, a total horror show. And he cheered the rise of China as a very positive development for the United States. Okay? Not so positive. Now Biden is pushing the most far left platform in the history of our country. The Biden plan would destroy Social Security and destroy protections for pre-existing conditions. You know that. Donald Trump: (01:06:11)They want to go socialized medicine. Socialized medicine, go to a hospital and take care of yourself. Get rid of 180 million private plans that people love. He would terminate our travel bans on jihadist regions. We won the travel ban, remember? And increase refugee admission 700%, opening the flood gates to radical Islamic terrorism. He wants to ban school choice and ban charter schools. Terrible. In a second term, I will provide school choice to every parent in America. Donald Trump: (01:06:48)A vote for Republicans is a vote for safe communities, great jobs, and a limitless future for all Americans. And in conclusion, over the next four years, we will make America into the manufacturing superpower of the world. And we will end our reliance on China once and forever. About time. We will make our medical supplies right here in the United States. We will hire more police, increase penalties for assaults on law enforcement, and we will ban deadly sanctuary cities. We will uphold religious liberty, free speech, and the right to keep and bear arms, the Second Amendment. Right? Second Amendment. Donald Trump: (01:07:41)We will strike down terrorists who threaten our citizens, and we will keep America out of these endless, ridiculous, stupid, foreign wars in countries that you’ve never even heard of. We will maintain America’s unrivaled military might, and we will ensure peace through strength. You know, we rebuilt our military. You saw it, $2.5 trillion. We have weapons, I mean, just to talk about them, the likes of which no country has ever seen before, the power, the strength, the incredible talent and engineering. We have weapons the likes of which no country has ever seen before. We are so far advanced over every other country, and hope to God we never have to use them. Donald Trump: (01:08:33)And when I got here, we were a depleted, tired military with great people, but we were exhausted. We had old jet fighters. Now we have brand new F-35s that are stealth. I asked one of the pilots, “How good are these planes compared to the enemy?” He said, “Well, one difference is you can’t see our planes.” I said, “Let me ask you. I know too much about flying. That helps, doesn’t it?” He said, “It really helps, sir.” The guy looked like Tom Cruise, but better. Tom Cruise, but stronger. Donald Trump: (01:09:05)We will end surprise medical billing, require price transparency, and further reduce health insurance premiums and the cost of prescription drugs. We will strongly protect Medicare and Social Security. And we will always protect patients with pre-existing conditions. Donald Trump: (01:09:27)America will land the first woman on the moon, and the United States will be the first nation to land an astronaut on Mars very soon. And NASA has become the preeminent space center again in the world. It was tired. It was over. Donald Trump: (01:09:47)We will stop the radical indoctrination of our students and restore patriotic education to our schools. We will teach our children to love our country, honor our history, and always respect our great American flag. And we will live by the timeless words of our National Motto, “In God we trust.” For years, you had a president who apologized for America. Now you have a president who is standing up for America and standing up for the people of Pennsylvania. Donald Trump: (01:10:35)So get your friends, get your family, get your neighbors, get your coworkers, and get out and vote. Most important election we’ve ever had. The most important we’ve ever had. Early voting has already begun, so don’t wait. Go out and vote. From Erie to Easton, from Pittsburgh to Harrisburg, and from Allentown to right here in Middletown, we stand on the shoulders of Pennsylvania patriots who gave their blood, sweat, and tears for this beloved nation. This is an incredible place. Our whole history, so much history in Pennsylvania. This is the state where our founding fathers declared American independence. It’s where the army weathered it’s brutal winter at Valley Forge. Where General George Washington led his men on a daring mission across the Delaware, and where our union was saved by the heroes of Gettysburg. Donald Trump: (01:11:41)This is the place where generations of tough, strong Pennsylvania workers minded the call, worked the railroads, and forged the steel that made America into the greatest and most powerful nation in the history of the world. And you haven’t seen anything yet. Proud citizens like you helped build this country, and together we are taking back our country. We are returning power to you, the American people. With your help, your devotion, we’re going to keep on working. We’re going to keep on fighting, and we’re going to keep on winning, winning, winning. We are one movement, one people, one family, and one glorious nation under God. And together with the incredible people of Pennsylvania, we will make America wealthy again. We will make America strong again. We will make America proud again. We will make America safe again. And we will make America great again. Donald Trump: (01:13:01)Thank you very much. Thank you, Pennsylvania. Go out and vote. Transcribe Your Own Content Try Rev and save time transcribing, captioning, and subtitling. Copyright Disclaimer Under Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Get a weekly digest of the week’s most important transcripts in your inbox. It’s the news, without the news.

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sep donald trump hold rally middletown pennsylvania september talk supreme court nomination amy coney barrett announce early day take shot joe biden presidential debate lock chant refer barack obama read transcript speech transcribe content try rev save time transcribe captioning subtitle speaker usa usa usa usa usa usa usa donald trump win pennsylvania time go win lot time year ago lot enthusiasm fake news admit crosstalk donald trump pennsylvania thank rain stand rain suppose bring luck ah man come rose garden white house thank love thank donald trump country go strong soon watch happen happen beautifully happen close save million life open record kind number go good year go great quarter thank donald trump come rose garden white house proudly nominate judge amy coney barrett united states supreme court judge barrett brilliant legal mind extraordinary scholar know number class know professor respected people say great student pretty good little well biden run president instead donald trump little bit well academically slightly well important defend godgiven right freedom judge barrett supreme court justice think domination justice gorsuch justice kavanaugh amy federal judge end term confirm uphold law constitution write record donald trump biden refuse provide list name handpicke socialist like representative alexandria ocasiocortez aoc plus ilhan omar great great complain complain come thing work come anybody know come aoc plus beauty group real love country donald trump give power far left pack supreme court radical terminate second amendment want strike word god pledge allegiance tear crosse public space force taxpayer fund extreme lateterm abortion look donald trump leftwe justice cripple police department protect sanctuary city declare death penalty unconstitutional depraved mass murder unconstitutional save second amendment save country speaker usa usa usa usa usa usa usa donald trump lot people ten thousand people sleepy joe come mean know little circle fill like circle big beautiful nice job round get stand far walk mean deal donald trump ten thousand somebody say night people see virginia make play virginia governor virginia know want totally end talk terminate second amendment talk talk day win commonwealth pennsylvania win year white house right thank speaker year year year year year year donald trump speaker year donald trump great honor great honor achieve lot happen number november vote early vote sure cheat badly ballot donald trump today big mishap ballot day mike day big mishap ballot new york say go change system little bit little late new york want change system go work governor cuomo go work ballot flow little late donald trump certain location know location mail thousand ballot unfortunately double everybody democrat area get ballot instead day ago find ballot wastepaper basket unfortunately trump write go vote trump military ballot military donald trump stream good state find lot ballot dump stream look look right right run ballot one talk pennsylvania go win pennsylvania got watch governor charge ballot donald trump carolina michigan nevada place run democrats one count ballot anybody doubt common sense common sense go careful go watch know wait ruling great federal judge state federal judge constitutionality thing go try steal election look crap way win pennsylvania frankly cheat ballot way look way look donald trump big thing today say mistake lot ballot go try redo system look iowa primary remember primary mess mess good job good job look guy good job good job hey good job speaker usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa donald trump guy go home parent go big trouble wait minute wait wait open mouth gentleman beautiful blue stand stand man law enforcement guy get word kind guy want work right man great instinct call natural instinct people people unfortunately people problem donald trump administration proudly achieve energy independence number producer oil natural gas world sleepy joe biden vow ban fracke good pennsylvania notice try pull donald trump go place call texas oil god gun texas work know work big fracker big business job want eradicate thing thing bring money state disgrace try mean donald trump like hillary remember horrible statement clean coal go crooked hillary go week later agree donald trump right win win inaudible try stop crazy bill stone cold afraid remember email think forget forget email remember email congress say want email delete email delete text message delete mike kelly job fast go right go long mean corruption donald trump hour fbi tape fbi text message trump right guy say trump right right trump right honest bring need insurance insurance wrong trump right donald trump turn big disinformation deal know guilty party democrats hillary one deal russia say long time text message come come donald trump go half year lot work ruin lot people look general flynn look happen message general flynn night come know innocent say want flynn order trump want flynn trump come loud clear trump donald trump tell get congress people people sick sick big con job shifty schiff group shifty schiff get say totally different thing say totally different sir shield speech totally lie congress donald trump opposite congress honest sleazebag right crosstalk sleazebag jerk jerk get deal people like tell ya tell ya come people like totally dishonest want country come come get hit plague china come get call stone cold radical leave hard line democrat let start talk tell good unemployment number good economy good stock market stock market right donald trump bring get hit plague china america great get save million life donald trump ask fracke sleepy joe biden say sure eliminate little ago get nomination go think fracke bad amazing dishonest dumb politician dumb guy dumb guy know dumb guy donald trump look forward see debate get lot experience get year get half year get year experience sort smile say like inaudible thing say like leave year ago year leave half year ago hell go great idea real beauty donald trump ago biden reiterate pledge require net zero carbon emission idea mean shut fracke send job overseas like bring job come job pennsylvania belong belong state donald trump biden agenda nightmare pennsylvania senior senior raise hand senior look people raise hand senior proud right donald trump year biden try cut social security medicare know want know go happen go socialized medicine get donald trump obama say way obama know scam know coup know spy campaign know somebody say inaudible inaudible donald trump say spy campaign long time ago internet blow dare turn true coup get say right get stop go try take away believe usa seriously believe catch text message hear real beauty come couple day crosstalk somebody say oh president president stop promise people sick bad people donald trump biden say argue freeze federal spending mean social security mean say argue want freeze federal spending go care medicare go care social security get go radical left control go socialized medicine sure sit stand tell hell difference sit donald trump nice get seat people look police great great guy great people get endorsement talk anymore police endorsement new york city fine endorse endorse president solve problem new york let donald trump solve problem new york let job billion dollar away fire good people force get chicago think chicago police endorse easy deal radical left people get endorse sheriff florida law enforcement florida get endorse texas oklahoma get endorse anybody know police area group endorse look look donald trump biden pledge federal healthcare illegal alien decimate medicare say heart want help people problem people think come united states let go free education free medicare free healthcare jokingly say time everybody get beautiful brand new roll royce cnn say lie say illegal immigrant get car true say lie kid say lie roll royce remember say russia listen find email hell say find email laugh people stadium television look camera television look people look red light go stand rain like like remember problem cut exactly start laugh right year say deal russia ask russia email hell ask russia listen place crack fact cut word know get cut short want sign donald trump dishonest tell bad country right right live place let know let end instead know cnn totally corrupt fake light red light say get stop say think wet say sir need hat say hell hat go match beautiful tie get red know red hell color red go color nah fine like see rain friend pennsylvania care rain rain donald trump thank rain right stay night right tell interesting thing go look plan plan manifesto bernie sander aoc manifesto normally negotiate communist think go think long socialism deal bad socialism communism deal socialist communist suppose bring little bit right right democrat bring start plan went leave plan horrible manifesto bernie sanders crazy bernie know thing agree trade rip country stop lot donald trump mean devote lot time fake impeachment fake impeachment biden son get half million dollar wife mayor moscow donald trump deal russia donald trump donald trump deal guy get half million dollar wife mayor moscow hell donald trump great experience energy reveal yesterday get lot money china think get lot money right stuff like perfect like unbelievable get lot money china month get look like month get upfront payment million ukraine great knowledge energy say know energy happen know oh father call prosecutor get billion dollar united states whoa get billion quid pro quo right donald trump perfect phone quid pro quo disgrace hopefully get stuff get plenty biden plan mass amnesty bankrupt social security system remember get elect say oh go hurt love go hurt disinformation lie like soldier grave imagine animal know lie social security say year ago say way social security touch touch say destroy social security destroy destroy country social security worthless go happen donald trump half year secure america border rebuild awesome power military obliterate isis inaudible fix disastrous trade deal bring job home america home commonwealth pennsylvania year president obama bush household income rise right book year year rise half inaudible include energy saving like pay gasoline inaudible electric bill way donald trump number world like include year half year lift million people poverty wreck build great economy history world rapidly number happen add historic million job month record like add job time month close fight china virus launch large national mobilization world war ii donald trump say plus d public relation busy work fake news report incorrectly figure use deal job include ventilator take cupboard bare take pioneer life save therapy reduce fatality rate april hear europe have big surge right use europe oh look europe want surge europe great excess mortality rate united states want hear want tell early aggressive action save million life operation warp speed develop distribute vaccine record time donald trump go soon upset vaccine upset vaccine happen soon want save live go save tremendous life want hear want hear therapy want election hear state hear go open school november oh tell right worry pennsylvania state go open like november idiot excoriate person say excoriate person say open school november late november oh nice get open school get open state open donald trump one one open crush virus opponent crush america deliver crippling shutdown steep sleepy joe biden president go massive tax increase go interest rate ceiling depression like country see include pretty bad right go happen hope chance test want test want right go incredible prosperity cut taxis grow fast donald trump deliver safe vaccine record time thing vaccine faa approve thing fraction time vaccine obsolete process vaccine half year november pennsylvania decide end pandemic defeat virus return record prosperity allow sleepy joe biden kill recovery delay vaccine impose trillion tax hike destroy suburb talk suburb knock regulation allow lowincome housing suburb hear oh people suburb like well like go suburb go great woman suburb mistake say housewife live suburb say oh politically incorrect okay get kill word housewife unacceptable term know donald trump say say housewife suburb say oh horrible thing woman let politically correct woman man suburb change zoning build change zoning rule regulation disaster call people say want terminate say sir let amend understand want amend want terminate yes sir terminate terminate believe fake suburb poll think people suburb know think know want sleepy joe biden want get get maniac fall like rock poll pick somebody pick bad say bad thing go pick somebody say bad seven go big week go get quit iowa right iowa primary crazy ballot find win want use scale thousand time big million ballot million ballot donald trump count small number count race new york carolyn maloney terrible terrible congresswoman take away guy beat beat miss massive sound like miss unacceptable win right win lose like area think ballot miss people crazy go disaster ask people vote vote stop nonsense go count ballot year donald trump want end supreme court want congress advantage congress understand think count vote state actually advantage oh go thrill hear sure try figure break biden want confiscate gun indoctrinate child poisonous antiamerican lie school right combat toxic left wing propaganda school announce week launch new proamerican lesson plan student call commission teach child truth america exceptional nation face earth get well get well healing important election tell like couple month ago like pretty exciting right exciting cool night trump win florida win north carolina win pennsylvania win michigan win wisconsin win hell go people cry cry anchor nonbiase anchor cry watch interview person msbnc watch watch sleepy joe like interview yesterday tough tough nasty feed answer true true trump horrible human yeah discuss true bad obvious killer person tough rig thing rig get beat system beat system look somebody office corrupt medium person sit complain unfair sit oval office say unfair look oval office wait minute unfair oh oval office stop complain mike say oh oval office donald trump biden surrender party flag burner rioter antipolice radical anarchist running mate urge supporter donate fund bail rider jail include attempt cop killer let jail member biden staff donate fund donate lot money want people want call see minneapolis call like week half late go long half hour bring national guard tell seattle come leave night set disappointed disappoint donald trump go big statement say okay leave tell time tell look portland mess right anarchist sort like different chicago mess new york let happen new york great police chicago new york job let job terrible look donald trump job terrible look portland portland anarchist guy week ago remember shoot kill young man middle street shoot like oh want like parent devastate young man shoot kill guy animal half right hat hat hat christian hat christian hat christian christian shoot kill instantly guy shoot everybody know right say day arrest half day arrest social medium arrest donald trump know marshal see go pull gun minute guy hurt dead guy stone cold killer protestor protestor anarchist killer marshal thank incredible job brave marshal solve problem easy easy want governor want governor want leave way imagine mess donald trump year go portland say street look like say believe people x sill front want buy new know somebody go knock week terrible thing democrat party war cop put police officer risk president stand hero law enforcement people love know hear hear people love respect job know hear maniac right know write love respect thank thank donald trump law enforcement organization country organization endorse strongly oppose opponent radical leave opponent control like puppet people crazy people proud receive firstever unanimous endorsement large police union world fraternal order police large world join tonight president fantastic guy friend pat yoe brave officer pat come come pat pat yoe president thank know nation police officer uniform day man woman community place safety risk protect community america like overnight people turn america law enforcement go public servant public enemy overnight politician turn sir turn america law enforcement sir tell behalf america large law enforcement organization rank file police organization unanimous enthusiastic endorsement turn go america safe thank donald trump wow wow thank thank crowd love trump love trump donald trump crowd love trump love trump love trump love trump love trump love trump love trump love trump love trump love trump love trump donald trump crowd love trump love trump love trump donald trump november vote eye open shenanigan probably okay people like dump thing flush thing people drop wastepaper basket seven right wastepaper eye open smart group people right donald trump group warrior washington fantastic love start dan meuser dan thank dan good location dan like thank dan congressman scott perry scott thank scott great job warrior tell fight hard fight lloyd smucker lloyd thank thank lloyd thank thank lloyd great job congressman fre keller thank fre great job great john joyce thanks john real good friend somebody tell tough come love pennsylvania mike kelly thank mike donald trump like have guy man sort legend tell long time ago year ago tell go win say know say know know tell say people trump stuff care politician life get hat sash belt shoe say see call long time ago congressman get guess leave lot good thing fantastic oh get lou barletta great guy congressional candidate hear lead jim bognet jim jim hear lead jim involve total endorsement okay know total endorsement jim pennsylvania campaign chair bernie comfort bernie thank thank thank bernie great job great job huh wow job thank way bernie bernie comfort candidate donald trump thank state gop chairman friend long time lawrence tabas lawrence thank thank thank great group people thank go big victory lawrence agree bernie right think go big big victory big year ago good remember announce like point people lot think lot well time time say go thing know lot people thing accomplish say campaign different donald trump think go kind number people go surprised spend year reverse damage joe biden inflict year politic friend champion globalist betrayal pennsylvania half century support nafta get rid south korea renegotiate tpp get china entry world trade organization say wonderful thing terrible thing china take like rocket ship know china go overtake year say go overtake guess way outdo pick donald trump somebody smart get somebody smart somebody smart position president overtake people overtake somebody smart biden nafta china deal wipe onethird state manufacturing job know well anybody biden ask vote beg forgiveness little hokey little hokey inaudible donald trump true sense election choice pennsylvania china state talk china know interesting sign great deal farmer business week big corn order big soybean big cattle big beef order know mean ink dry plague come right dry mean mean great deal mean anymore stop come biden win china win hunter win hunter hunter donald trump guy walk china walk billion half dollar manage sophisticated guy wall street know smart take minute walk billion half dollar manage million dollar year win pennsylvania wins america win happen decade politician spend trillion dollar rebuild foreign nation fight foreign war area country hear defend foreign border finally protect nation rebuild city bring job factory troop home usa belong crowd usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa usa donald trump opponent pledge rejoin jobkilling paris climate accord disaster country mean hurt mean advantage spend trillion dollar end close lot plant factory say go go crazy deal say oh go kill know people get understand rip country thing like unbelievable wealth ground want use oh nice wonderful thing thank withdraw catastrophe elect fight pennsylvania paris put america long time right day america defend worker impose tariff foreign aluminum foreign steel save auto industry withdraw horrible transpacific partnership kill donald trump michigan particular pennsylvania auto forget build expand different plant build year build lot country want business build auto plant end nafta nightmare sign brand new usmexicocanada agreement law great go lose company mexico canada disadvantageous take tough action stand china rampant theft pennsylvania job proudly sign historic executive order make official government policy buy american hire american donald trump watch biden week ago go lid know lid keep put bernie keep put lid get lid morning lid mean day mean fake news medium home know get easy job see work medium home will activity sleepy joe biden today lowenergy individual need president lot energy deal president xi china president putin russia kim jongun remember go war north korea right happen happen war lot happen million people kill nuclear war probably nuclear look know get foreign nation bad thing oh get yeah donald trump ask obama sit tell big problem north korea tell tell lot horror story say uh excuse try call get nominate nobel peace prize believe israel bahrain united arab emirate right way country come call want come go come blood sand smart reverse art deal art common sense let tell reverse country go come donald trump tell story night get kosovo serbia kill year kill sort like palestinians israel kosovo know deal say fight kill lot difference include religious difference guess say trade certain power say listen let deal let economic peace ultimately peace come office oval office sign hug mean beautiful thing save lot life donald trump tell night say say great lady great lady melania say melania lady say lady oh get watch television tonight go come home early let tell early stay late go come home early go great job get nominate nobel peace prize go sit go soak darling let turn nbc fake news lester holt number rate number head south find nbc bad inaudible spend money pr screw evening like donald trump obama get know get include remember say know different work hard get nobel prize idea get start drop bomb week later place work work john kerry negotiate bad incompetent sad iran horrible deal fast plane new one buy new equipment scary enemy want hear sound donald trump say lady lady turn television turn darling go big evening toast drink darling drink donald trump toast drink tonic drink bad turn story weather rain heavily certain area story go story commercial last minute suppose money free airwave fake news okay free airwave think think think free airwave fake news come end say darling little embarrassed follow day get nominate call say maybe forget let home turn television donald trump thing story time clean rain get commercial end keep little tiny piece say cover nobel prize get week hear different thing totally unrelated complaint get seven know thing thing well get seven donald trump fake news somebody say time devote donald trump nobel peace prize zero network zero time devote negative somebody republican party like infinite disgraceful bad win like win win win donald trump tell story differently will tell fun understand laugh laugh fast right like beto say bear run president magazine fake magazine vanity fair die sucker die boy magazine go fast fake magazine vanity fair think start say good week good week start say bear bear run president say go long week later charge take gun away byebye know right beto beto beto little spanish beto beto come phony deal go donald trump protect american worker pandemic suspend entry foreign worker threaten job care citizen biden pledge terminate protection away job administration achieve secure border history finish beautiful wall wall mile talk wall crowd wall build wall donald trump wall build wall crowd wall build wall build wall donald trump talk wall get sue nancy pelosi crazy nancy get sue big mistake wall build wall build wall build wall right say simply build wall money come pour insist build remember wall work remember say wall work wall work want drone watch people pour border drone drone half mile air watch everybody come united states remember say donald trump thing work time come brilliant scientist develop new chip develop new laptop computer week obsolete worthless right wall obsolete will obsolete wheel thing obsolete wall wheel trouble mile average mile week border patrol get say fellow little expensive version great wall go finish soon press talk wall anymore want talk good subject donald trump ice successfully arrest half million illegal alien criminal record include assault sex offense killing want thank ice boy beat beat medium incredible think hundred thousand people real bad one murderer killers drug dealer contrast joe biden support open border zero deportation manifesto sanctuary city release violent criminal alien protect criminal people donald trump want end sanctuary city choice vote republican know bad place read democratrun city state democratrun law order law order democratrun disaster donald trump invest trillion military launch new branch armed force nearly year space force go important month sleepy joe biden year true true kill founder leader isis albaghdadi take world number terrorist mass murderer american troop soleimani withdraw administration disastrous iran nuclear deal pay billion get mind mind give billion cash point fill area right plane load cash realize president powerful send money foreign country friend crazy donald trump keep promise recognize true capital israel open american embassy jerusalem know like evangelical like know evangelical love franklin graham lot great people successful event mall today know hear great franklin graham evangelical leader great white house ceremony today justice recognize israeli sovereignty golan height instead endless war forge peace middle east cost cost kill people blood sand tired fighting way case people like fight tired nineteen year afghanistan tired want sort relax tough donald trump biden oppose mission osama bin laden oppose kill soleimani vote iraq war back disastrous iran nuclear deal total horror cheer rise china positive development united states okay positive biden push far left platform history country biden plan destroy social security destroy protection preexist condition know donald trump want socialized medicine socialized medicine hospital care rid million private plan people love terminate travel ban jihadist region win travel ban remember increase refugee admission open flood gate radical islamic terrorism want ban school choice ban charter school terrible second term provide school choice parent america donald trump vote republicans vote safe community great job limitless future americans conclusion year america manufacture superpower world end reliance china forever time medical supply right united states hire police increase penalty assault law enforcement ban deadly sanctuary city uphold religious liberty free speech right bear arm second amendment right second amendment donald trump strike terrorist threaten citizen america endless ridiculous stupid foreign war country hear maintain america unrivaled military ensure peace strength know rebuild military see trillion weapon mean talk like country see power strength incredible talent engineering weapon like country see far advanced country hope god use donald trump get deplete tired military great people exhaust old jet fighter brand new stealth ask pilot good plane compare enemy say difference plane say let ask know fly help say help sir guy look like tom cruise well tom cruise strong donald trump end surprise medical billing require price transparency reduce health insurance premium cost prescription drug strongly protect medicare social security protect patient preexist condition donald trump land woman moon united states nation land astronaut mars soon nasa preeminent space center world tired donald trump stop radical indoctrination student restore patriotic education school teach child love country honor history respect great american flag live timeless word national motto god trust year president apologize america president stand america stand people pennsylvania donald trump friend family neighbor coworker vote important election important early voting begin wait vote erie easton pittsburgh harrisburg allentown right middletown stand shoulder pennsylvania patriot give blood sweat tear beloved nation incredible place history history pennsylvania state found father declare american independence army weather brutal winter valley forge general george washington lead man dare mission delaware union save hero gettysburg donald trump place generation tough strong pennsylvania worker mind work railroad forge steel america great powerful nation history world see proud citizen like help build country take country return power american people help devotion go work go fighting go win win win movement people family glorious nation god incredible people pennsylvania america wealthy america strong america proud america safe america great donald trump thank pennsylvania vote transcribe content try rev save time transcribe captioning subtitle copyright disclaimer title usc section allowance fair use purpose criticism comment news reporting teaching scholarship research fair use permit copyright statute infringe weekly digest week important transcript inbox news news

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill provides that combat-disabled uniformed services retirees with fewer than 20 years of creditable service may concurrently receive, without reduction, veterans' disability compensation and retired pay or combat-related special compensation.

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bill provide combatdisable uniformed service retiree few year creditable service concurrently receive reduction veteran disability compensation retired pay combatrelate special compensation

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill requires the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to prioritize implementation of dredged material management plans for federally authorized harbors in Ohio. Plans must limit open-lake disposal of dredged material and maximize its beneficial use.

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bill require army corps engineer prioritize implementation dredge material management plan federally authorize harbor ohio plan limit openlake disposal dredged material maximize beneficial use

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill broadens the authority for certain individuals to carry concealed firearms in a school zone. Specifically, the bill exempts the following categories of individuals from the federal prohibition on possessing (or discharging) a firearm in a school zone:

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bill broaden authority certain individual carry conceal firearm school zone specifically bill exempt follow category individual federal prohibition possess discharge firearm school zone

This bill establishes work requirements under Medicaid for able-bodied adults (i.e., those between the ages of 18 and 65 and who are not otherwise unable to work due to a medical condition, family situation, or other listed reason).

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bill establish work requirement medicaid ablebodie adult ie age unable work medical condition family situation list reason

Ep. 1705 - The Left's New Civil Rights Heroes Are Fakes Published: 4/11/2023 (in RSS feed: 54m 54s) As another mass shooting grabs headlines In Louisville, we examine who's really fueling the rise in gun violence. Decades of lives about marijuana are beginning to collapse, and Joe Biden preps his 2024 run as Europe caves to China. I'm bench Ferro. This is the Bench Bureau Show. This episode is brought to you by Good Ranchers, free bacon, great meat, a secure price, and extra 20 bucks off with my code. Ben. Head on over to good ranchers.com. Use code Ben for 20 bucks off your order . So another awful mass shooting in Louisville, Kentucky yesterday. It has left five dead and nine others injured. According to cnn, a 25 year old bank employee opened fire at his workplace in downtown Louisville, Kentucky. On Monday morning, he live streamed the attack once more, social media doing a favor to all the world's worst people. The attack left five dead and eight others. Injured authorities initially said that nine were injured in the attack. Five of those injured had gunshot wounds. A hospital spokesperson said, and again, originally they said four dead later it became five dead. The mass shooting began at Old National Bank on East Main Street just after 8:30 AM according to police, about 30 minutes before the bank opened for the public, there were some prominent people who were murdered in this particular mass shooting. Apparently the gunman had said that he was going to be fired and then he proceeded to go online and post a bunch of very weird stuff just before he went in and shot everybody up. The media coverage was focused in on the fact that this guy was some sort of varsity athlete back in college, but they're ignoring what he actually posted that morning. And again, we, I don't mention the name of mass shooters on this show, but the things that he posted the day of the shooting, he posted three memes. One was a meme from Star Wars Last Jedi of, of Adam Driver saying, I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it. And then the next one was from office space, said I could burn this whole place down. And then finally the last one was, they won't listen to words or protests. Let's see if they hear this. So very unclear what he meant by any of that. Perhaps it's all a workplace violence incident. Perhaps it's not. Perhaps there's some political angle we just don't know at this point. The Kentucky Governor, Andy Bashir, he had some personal friends who were murdered in this particular mass shooting. Here he was, This is awful. I have a very close friend that didn't make it today and I have another close friend who didn't either and one who's at the hospital that I hope is, is gonna make it through. So when we talk about praying, I hope people will. And my ag campaign was out of that building. I know virtually everyone in it. That's my bank. I hope that they will all reach out and get the help that they need. There are a lot of people that are hurting today and if we have a place to focus our energy, I hope it is to surround them with the love and the compassion that we have been so good at showing one another. That is certainly the proper response from the Governor of Kentucky, Kentucky. Meanwhile, the improper response came courtesy of our usual political actors. President Biden immediately swiveled into gun control talk. He said, once again, our nation mourns after a senseless act of gun violence. Jill and I pray for the lives lost and impacted by today's shooting. Too many Americans are paying for the price of inaction with their lives when war Republicans in Congress act to protect our communities. Which is weird because he controlled Congress until about five minutes ago. He had full control of the Senate, he had full control of the House of Representatives and he passed something very close to nothing. Meanwhile, David Hogg, who is famous as a Parkland shooting survivor, he was several buildings away, but he was on the Parkland campus when the shooting happened. He went after the Senator from Flora, Rick Scott. Rick Scott apparently also had a friend. Same guy, Tommy Elliot. He said, my friend Tommy Elliot was killed today in Louisville. He was my banker for many years. This news is very shocking and sad for Anne and me. He did so much in the Louisville community. We pray for his family during this awful time. And David Hog, being a not very smart or a good person, immediately tweeted out, must be tough knowing you're complicit, which is just a vial thing to tweet. Meanwhile, Karina Jean Pier doing the exact same routine, world's worst press secretary, she's blaming the G O P for a mass shooting in Kentucky. Now by, by the way, it doesn't matter that it's in Kentucky or mass shooting in California, be the same exact math. It does not matter. Anytime there's a mass shooter, the Republicans get blamed. And as you'll see, there is a reason why Democrats like talking about mass shootings, but they don't actually like talking about, you know, the actual overall problem of gun violence. Cuz things get real uncomfortable when you start talking about why there's been an uptick in overall gun violence in the United States. But here is Karina er Once again today the president has called on Republicans in Congress to work together with Democrats to take action, to ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines to require safe storage of firearms. We know that majority of the American people support this. Instead, we've watched Republican official after Republican official, after Republican official double down on dangerous bills that make our schools, that makes our places, places of worship, that makes our communities less safe while too many Americans are paying with their lives. So again, we need to act and we need Republicans to show some courage. Republicans in Congress, Again, they controlled Congress, they did nothing. They don't have a solution for any of this stuff. It's all grandstanding garbage. And it it, it all derives from the same lie that they've been telling for decades, which is that if you do not agree with them that gun control is the proper solution to things like mass shootings, then this must be because you are insufficiently motivated to stop murder, which is insane coming from the party that legitimately tried to defund the police a couple of years ago. Gets more on this in just one second. First facts and logic are precious rarities in this crazy world. But you know what is even more precious than fact and logic? Gold. Yeah, no, I just went right for the literal right there. When the economy is in turmoil and the stock market is tanking, there's only one thing you can count on. That is precious metals, birch gold. 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Precious metals are the best hedge against inflation and uncertainty in the market. That's why I've diversified. And you should as well text Ben to 98. 98, 98 to get started with my friends over at Birch Gold. Okay, so all of this raises the question and there's a lot of focus in the media always on mass shootings. Mass shootings represent a fraction of the homicides with guns that happen in this nation. And whenever you see statistics about how there have been like 200, 300 mass shootings a year in the United States, that is a definitional question. So what they mean by this is any shooting that includes two or more people, they'll now classify as mass shooting. But that's not what, what they're trying to do is play a semantic game with you. When you think of a mass shooting, you think of like something that just happened in Louisville or you think of the trans man who shot up a bunch of Christian school kids at a school near Nashville, Tennessee. That's what you think when you think mass shooting. Then they say they're like 300 of these a year. They're like, whoa, I didn't even realize they're that there aren't, okay, the sort of spectacular 6, 7, 8 victim mass shootings and more that you see, there's maybe six or seven of those a year like at at sort of top of the funnel. Now again, every one of those in active evil and we should do what we can to prevent those things. But when they say that there's like 200, 300 a year, what they mean by that is basically gang violence. They're looking at gang members who are shooting each other and then they're reclassifying those as mass shootings for purposes of driving. The notion that the thing we have to do is crack down on shootings like the one that happened in Louisville or Nashville more than the overall problem of gun homicide. Cuz if they focus in on the overall problem of gun homicide, you find very quickly exactly where this is happening. And the answer is big blue cities. Big blue cities is where most of the gun homicide is happening in the United States. And not only that, it is happening centrally located in neighborhoods that have a disproportionately black population. Now, again, that has nothing to do with the inherent qualities of race or anything like that. That is just a statistical fact. And that's an uncomfortable conversation that nobody on the left wants to have. Because if you point out that Vermont has lots of guns and virtually no gun crime and that Chicago has lots of guns and tons of gun crime, it might suggest that the problem actually is not either race or guns. The problem is the societal structures that incentivize crime in these areas. Areas. And that might implicate, you know, some of the actual governance in these areas, right? If you focus in on Chicago or you focus in Washington dc if you focus in on the Baltimores of the world, then that might require very different solutions because you look at those places, those have been governed by Democrats for pretty much all of time. And I've noticed a problem there, which is that virtually all of the murder in the United States is happening in cities like those ones. And you can see this in the stats. So Pew Research came out with a study just last week in which they pointed out that the number of children and teens killed by gunfire in the United States increased 50% between 2019 and 2021. That's a shocking statistic by 50% the number of kids and teens killed by gunfire. Now, the Biden administration, the media, their take on that is that's because Republicans are evil and want kids to die in mass school shootings. But here's the reality, the vast majority of children and teens who are being killed in shootings are not being killed in schools by mass shooters. Obviously they're being killed in neighborhoods where people are shooting at people. In 2019, before the Covid pandemic, there were 1,732 gun deaths among US kids aged under the age of 18. By 2021, that figure had increased to 2,590. The gun death rate among kids and teens rose from 2.4 fatalities per 100,000 minor residents in 2019 to 3.5 per 100,000. Two years later, that's a 46% increase. So what exactly happened here? Well, number one, you can see where the spike occurred. The spike occurred immediately during the Black Lives Matter protests. So as soon as Black Lives matter happened and all the cops were removed from the high crime areas in the United States, all the gun homicides went up. Isn't that a shocker? It also turns out that gun deaths are much more common among some groups of children and teens according to Pew. So number one, homicide is the leading type of gun death for 2021 for not suicide for all kids under the age of 18. But suicides accounts for a significant share of gun deaths among those age 12 to 17 accidents account for a sizable chair of gun deaths. Among those five and under racial and ethnic differences, there's pew. Okay, so if you have a problem with the racial breakdown I'm about to do, argue with pew, racial and ethnic differences in gun deaths among kids are stark. In 20 21, 40 6% of all gun deaths, all gun deaths among children and teens involved black victims. Only 14% of the United States under 18 population that year was black. Much smaller shares of gun deaths among children and teens in 2021 involved white 32% Hispanic 17%, and Asian 1% victims. So in other words, the only share of the population where the gun deaths are approximately equivalent to the percentage of the population overall is Hispanic. The the white population is about 60, 70% of the country, 32% of the gun deaths Black Americans, 14% of the under 18 population, 46% of all gun deaths, black kids are about five times as likely as white kids to die from gunfire five times as likely. And again, that that increase in death is largely centralized 20 19, 20 20 post b l m post bbl M. So if you actually wanted to stop the death of children, if you actually wanted to stop gun homicide, generally you might have to think about some different things, then ban all the guns, ban all the guns, ain't gonna do it. You're looking in the wrong place. But you, this is why again, the media focus in on the mass shootings so they don't have to talk about the actual problem of gun homicide, which might implicate their own policies. So instead what they do is they misdirect to Republicans want guns on the streets, it's Republican Republicans are the real problem here. And you know what the real problem is? The real problem is they're insufficiently committed to stopping death and that in fact they are so little committed to stopping death and destruction that they would rather spend their time expelling heroic members of the Tennessee State legislature. So the media decided to cover as heroes yesterday, the so-called Tennessee three, I gotta say these folks are some of the most grandstanding political actors I have ever seen. Truly amazing, amazing stuff. So for example, just wanna show you a tweet from Representative Gloria Johnson. Okay? This was Gloria Johnson and her two friends, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson Jones Pearson had been expelled. Gloria Johnson, she, she survived because she is a coward. And so she went on the floor of the Tennessee legislature, she's like, I didn't do anything, guys like I I was there. And it was like, sure, but they were the ones who really did it. And then the minute they get expelled, she's like, I am a hero standing next to these two young black men because I am a hero. Not all heroes wear capes. This is a picture for those who can't see, of the three of them smiling broadly and giving particular hand gestures to the camera. And behind them is a sign that says Good Morning America. What these people look really broken up about the mass shooting in national Tennessee, that that was what sourced all this, right? The reason that they had this protest that turned into a quasi riot in which they invaded the state capitol building was of course, cause they cared so much about the victims in Tennessee to these people look to you like people who deeply care about victims or do they look super duper happy to be on the TVs. They're super duper happy to be on the TVs again. Imagine a Republican was going on TV to talk about mass shooting and his expression was everybody in the media will be like, that's creepy and weird, but you're a Democrat, which means that you are a hero. And again, this is all grandstanding crap. To avoid the actual real conversation, we'll get to more of this grandstanding garbage in just one second. First, the economy, as you may have noticed, not good. You need to change your spending habits. If you haven't changed the way you buy meat yet, you really need to because the prices of meat are out of control. Let me give you three reasons to subscribe to good ranchers. First, good ranchers is giving you free bacon for a year. It's a pound and a half of bacon in every box. That is a $240 value. Second, good ranchers offers a price lock guarantee. Meaning when you subscribe, your price does not change for the length of your subscription. When the price of meat is expected to increase by another 4.5% this year, this could be a huge savings for you and your family. Third, good Ranchers meat, it's unlike any other, their own natural burgers, U S D A prime steaks better than organic chicken will change your standard for great meat. So they made me, I'm a special person, they made me one special kosher steak. And lemme just tell you that if that kosher steak is indicative in any way of the rest of their product, which it is, it's one of the best steaks I've ever had in my life. So good. Head on over to Good ranchers.com. Use MyCode Ben for 20 bucks. Off your order again, you get free bacon, great meat, secure price, 20 bucks off your first order. Use promo code [email protected]. That's good. ranchers.com, American Meat delivered. Okay, so these grand standards, amazing stuff. So the media, again, they've decided they're not gonna focus on the actual real story here of, of real gun violence and where that is happening. Instead, they're gonna talk about the supposed victimization of these three heroes. And by three heroes, I really mean two heroes and a white lady and a Karen. So according to the Washington Post, Nashville expulsions two steps forward, one back for black residents. Ah, the black residents of Nashville are the real victims in all of this. Sure, it was just a bunch of Christian school kids who got murdered. But the real victims here, so this is the second round. The first round was the real victims are members of the trans community. When a trans man murders a bunch of Christian school kids, that's the real victims. Now the real victims are the black people in National Tennessee. If you're wondering why it is that we won't just talk about the topic at issue, a trans man murdering Christian kids, I wonder why or why won't it talk about the, the actual issue gun homicide in the United States and the areas from which it springs. You can see why, you can see why it does not fit the bill. But according to the Washington Post, last week's decision by the Tennessee House of Representatives to kick out the black man who represents this area, reinforced to Tajuana Nation that hearst, that this is still a state where white men wield the true power of persistent legacy ingrained here for centuries. She said, quote, it's always like we go two steps forward and one step back. It's never like just keep going forward across southeastern Nashville and surrounding Davidson County, the expulsion of former state representative Justin Jones, who represented this area until Republicans booted him and a Memphis based legislator on Thursday, has roiled the emotions of residents who are trying to make sense of what it means for their own futures here. Ah, cosplaying the revolution. Okay, so let's talk about this Cosplaying revolution nonsense. So number one, this representative Justin Jones, one of the two, one of the Tennessee two, it's not Tennessee, three again, the white lady didn't get expelled. It's the two black guys who got expelled. So Justin Jones has now being reinstated and sworn in. That was the National Metro Council had voted Monday night to reinstate Jones to his former seat. And this led to jubilation in the streets. Ah, so much, so much excitement. Here we go. There's a declaration that's being prepared, a document, if you all can see this is the oath of office signed by the Chancellor. So this is, we're seeing this history right now in real time. I have not Been able to take step, This is signing of the oath, So much history. The, the person you hear commenting there is Mark Thompson, a civil rights activist on msnbc. He said, it certainly is history. That's because gun violence touches everyone. What the Republicans didn't expect was this type of reaction, this type of backlash. You could not get a flight into national today. The masses were coming here, ah, the absolute heroism. Now, when I say cosplaying the revolution, let me just point out that the two people who are at the center of this, namely Justin Pearson and Justin Jones, they have a long history of, of cosplaying the revolution. So back in 2019, Justin Jones was 23 and he was arrested in, charged by the Tennessee Highway Patrol after throwing a cup of coffee into an elevator of lawmakers, allegedly at the state capitol. That was in 2019. So this is a person who had great respect for the state capitol building all the way back in 2019 when he apparently was going to elevators and throwing cups of coffee at state legislators. At the time the Tennessee Highway Patrol reported that when then Speaker Glen Cassada left a meeting to get on an elevator. Jones attempted to push past troopers and get on the elevator when he wasn't allowed on the elevator. Apparently the Tennessee Highway Patrol said Jones started yelling at the speaker, calling him a racist, and then threw a cup with an unknown liquid, believed to be coffee at the speaker. Now this person is sitting in the Tennessee state legislator. So the hero comes in so many shapes and sizes. By the way, I would like to point out at this point that no one apparently had any problem whatsoever. When the republicans, when a Republican in the Oregon house was expelled from the, from the Oregon State House in December of 2020, in June of 2021, lawmakers in Oregon ejected one of their own colleagues from Office 59 to one. Why? Well, because he encouraged people to breach the state capitol. Again, the rule is when a Republican does it and then gets expelled, that's totally deserved. And he, and he needed it. Speaker Tina Kodak, the Democrat, said quote, his actions were blatant and deliberate. His show no remorse for jeopardizing the safety of every person in the capitol that day. And the New York Times compared it to the January 6th siege. Again, when it's Democrats doing it, it's heroism. When it's Republicans doing it well they, they deserve to be expelled from the legislature. Well, the the other person, ju Justin Jones is, is one of the people who, who has been making the most of this. He actually went on Good Morning America, you know, smiling. He is super happy about doing it cuz he's getting his day in the sunshine. And he said this was like a political lynching, which is absurd considering he, this is exactly what he wanted. He's now significantly more famous than he was before. You know what, you know what? There are not a lot of pictures of at lynchings. People who are being lynched, smiling broadly for the cameras in front of a good Morning America sign. Just gonna point that out here. Here's, here's Justin Jones playing the part. I think there's no coincidence that the two youngest black lawmakers, I'm 27, representative Pearson's 28 were kicked out by an almost entirely white 75 member caucus on strictly partisan lines. It was a political lynching, it was an attempt to make a spectacle, an example out of us to say, how dare you think you are equal. And, and, and what they're doing is what's the most egregious part? It's, it's not about us, but it's about a 78,000 people. Each of us represent predominantly black and brown constituents who have no voice on Capitol Hill right now. No one to do their constituent relations. No one to speak for them. Yes, he the oh, the heroism. We'll get to the other hero of the day, Justin Pearson in just one second. Because when you talk about people who are, let's say they've, let's say they've changed their public profile, they'll put it kindly get to that in just one moment. First, let's talk about the fact that I need my black rifle coffee. 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I love Black Rifle Coffee, not only because they make excellent coffee, but because a portion of every single sale is donated to support veterans, law enforcement and first responders. When I buy it from Black Rifle, I'm supporting the people who keep our country safe and free. You should do the same. Head over to black rifle coffee.com, use promo code Shapiro at checkout for 10% off your order. That's black rifle coffee.com. Use promo code Shapiro for 10% off. You can also find black rifle coffee and grocery and convenience stores at near you. Black Rifle Coffee is America's coffee. Okay, so the other hero of the day is of course, Justin Pearson. I'd like to introduce you to Justin Pearson. So we're gonna do what he said yesterday, and then we're going to go back into the past of Justin Pears. So here was Justin Pearson on Good Morning America. Again, very mournful about gun death in in Tennessee, which is why he was on Good Morning America. Smiling broadly here. He was saying that he didn't know they were breaking a rule, which that's a lie. I'm sorry, what? How many of you, you know who didn't know they were breaking a rule? By the same token, all the people who are trespassing on January 6th that day, they were wandering through, they were just standing between the rope lines. You know, it's just a tour, it was a normal tour. Everybody in Leslie, no, those are rioters, those are evil, terrible rioters. Throw them in prison forever, not the ones who are violent. All of them throw everyone in prison for the rest of their lives because obviously they're alive. Justin Pearson, who led a crowd to breach the capitol building and then is standing on video in the middle of the capitol building with a bullhorn is like, because that's the way normally you do business, right? You go down to the rostrum, I've seen the Speaker of the House, I've seen Kevin McCarthy on the Bullhorn. He does it all the time. And the federal legislative, here's Justin Pearson being like, I didn't even know. Wait, what? You're, what? No, you're saying we broke the No, You knew, you say you knew it would be violating decorum rules, but did you have any idea that the backlash would be like this from your colleagues? No, we had no idea that what we were doing would break a rule that could lead to our possible expulsion or our actual expulsions. What we were doing was listening to voters who said that we need to listen to the people who want to have gun safety laws. We need to stop the epidemic of gun violence and we need to stop the proliferation of weapons in our communities in addition to our schools. This was a tragedy that happened at the Covenant School in Nashville, but instead of addressing the tragedy, the Republican supermajority in Tennessee decided that our using our first amendment right to listen to the thousands of protestors deserved expulsion, Well, that that wasn't actually your first amendment right, is to break into the capitol building, building and then sees the rostrum and starts shouting from a bullhorn as it turns out. Also, again, what what's amazing about so much of this media coverage is they're pretending the Tennessee legislature did nothing. That's not true. The Tennessee legislature literally passed a bill to increase the amount of security at schools, but just in Pearson, he doesn't like that solution because that solution doesn't serve as political purposes. So he says more security officers is not a solution, which is weird because literally every single mass shooting is stopped by the presence of security officers. Eventually, the only question is whether it's sooner or whether it is later, We walked to the floor of the well because we were being silenced by the speaker and by people in positions of power who weren't listening to the thousands of people who showed up to the capitol saying to do something. We walked to the well of the floor in a peaceful protest because we know that there is a way to end and to prevent gun violence from happening. And the Republican party in Tennessee would rather try to put more guns and security officers in schools than solutions. And right now what we are seeing is the erosion of our democracy, The erosion or democracy. Okay, so this guy, when I say his cosplaying, I mean he's cosplaying, okay? So here he, he gave a speech over the weekend, did Justin Pearson at a local church, and it was kind of wild. Here's what he sounded like. Let us go into the house of the Lord. I I, I'm so glad to be in the house of the Lord with you this morning. Would, would you mind going ahead and praying with me now, mother God creator, God loving God, holy God, mother God, take this, your servant made from dust and connect it with the raw materials of stardust to speak in this moment, to say something that brings forward the word you placed into my heart. I accept my unworthiness for such a task as bold as this, and I seek your guidance as you use me and speak through me to the ancestor preachers who made sermons from hymns, moons and groans and spirituals from the bondage of slavery. Speak now through this, your descendant. Okay, the reason I'm laughing is because I also have a clip of Justin Pearson from 2016 when he was in college running for student president and he did not sound anything remotely like that. Also, he looks completely different. He's wearing like a very nice two-piece suit and he has a very close crop haircut. And here he is sounding completely not like that. I'm Justin J. Pearson and I'm running for president of B S G. There are a few reasons that we're running this campaign this year. One has to do with representation. How can we represent all voices in a conversation? I wanted to do this by partnering with organizations from the Bodhi Democrats to the Boon Republicans. I wanna bring together different voices, Dissent voices, okay? So you can hear the difference. This is how the game of politics is played in Intersting idiocy era. By the way, all of the policies that Democrats actually pursue in the big cities that maximize gun homicide, they, it turns out they maximized gun homicide according to the Wall Street Journal, Chicago Mayor elect Brandon Johnson. He was just, so, they got rid of Lori Lightfoot and they decided to put in mail Lori Lightfoot, who is Brandon Johnson, and he immediately declared that his first priority is to make large corporations pay more tax. He said, quote, 70% of large corporations in the state of Illinois did not pay a corporate tax. It's that kind of restraint on our budget that has caused the type of disinvestment that has led to poverty that of course has led to violence. So it's not lack of cops on the streets, it's not hamstring the cops, it is not fortifying the, the violent crime areas of the city. It is the fact that corporations need higher taxes. So it'll be fun to watch Chicago turn completely into Detroit as we ignore all the real problems in our society in favor of the, of the fame and fortune to be won through political cosplay. And meanwhile, when we speak of crime, you know, it, it is amazing that for literally decades we have been told that marijuana was going to be just a normal part of American life and that it's completely nonaddictive and that it has no real impact on, on, on people. And now we are starting to see that people are just now recognizing that people were lying for a very, very long time. According to the New York Times, which was a big proponent of the idea that weed was totally fine. Apparently nearly 6% of all American teens and adults have cannabis use disorder. They're addicted to weed. Remember that time that people said that weed was non-addictive, which always seems a little sketch. And if you know anybody in your circle of friends, there's certainly people who are addicted to weed. There's a huge percentage of people in this country, particularly young people who are in fact addicted to weed. And if you're looking at why the underperformance of the millennials, it's not all of it, but part of it is definitely people who are addicted to weed and are underperforming in their lives because of that. According to the New York Times, despite the common misconception, people can become addicted to cannabis just as they can with other drugs like alcohol or cocaine. As more states either decriminalize or legalize cannabis, more people are using it than ever before. According to the national survey on drug use and health, in 2021, approximately 19% of Americans 12 and older used cannabis, nearly 6% of teens and adults qualified as having cannabis use disorder. That would be the clinical name for addiction. For a comparison, about 11% of Americans over the age of 11 are alcoholics. So by, by the way, it is worth pointing out here that the marijuana that people are using today is significantly more potent than the marijuana that people were using when we were growing up. I'm 40, well I'm 39. When, when people are, when, when people were growing up, when I grew up, the type of marijuana that was being shipped over the border, largely from Mexico, that that that type of marijuana was simply less powerful than the kind of marijuana that the kids are now smoking and using. And this is why you get stories like the one from National Review about marijuana induced psychosis, which is becoming ever more common as well. According to National Review, Kat Mayberry grabbed her backpack and ran out the door with no jacket, had her gloves, she ran through snow flurries on a cold Minnesota day. She ran down the street, down the hill, she ran down the nature trail near her family's home. In Eden Prairie, a southwest suburb of Minneapolis, Trent Mayberry cat's dad ran after his 20 year old daughter. He caught up to her, grabbed her by the backpack, stopping her, they sat together on the frozen ground. Trent cried. Cat was scared, but otherwise, expressionless Kat said, let me go. Trent guided his daughter home holding the straps of her backpack using its director like a joystick. How could this girl walking like a zombie, be the same girl who just a few years earlier had been a sunny honor student and varsity athlete with the world at her fingertips? Sure she'd been using marijuana, but to Trent, it was just pot, basically. Harmless, desperate. Trent and Jane took their fall, took their daughter to the emergency room. It was there in the fall of 2018. They first got the real understanding of what was troubling her schizophrenia. So yes, it turns out that heavy use of marijuana can exacerbate the problem of psychosis. The what we've been told lies by media about marijuana for a very long time because again, so much of our country is built around the idea that it's fuddy-duddy and uncool to point out real dangers to children. And then it turns out that the real dangers actually materialized, like, ah, how could this have happened? It's just such a shock. It's just such, such a shock that any of this happened in the first place. So meanwhile, anybody who is, who is now against legalization of marijuana on the state level is terrible and bad. It's completely destroyed. By the way, the city of Denver, if you go to Denver, the entire city smells like pot right now. There's tremendous homelessness. Crime rates have increased. None of this should be a shock. But we're all supposed to be surprised when things like this happen again because we're every, every generation were supposed to be increasingly stupid. It is the only way, apparently to address the real problems in the world. You ignore the real problem and then you focus on the ancillary political discussion. Okay, in just one second, we'll get to Joe Biden, who oddly declared himself eligible for the presidency 2024. First, as Jews in Ukraine are celebrating Passover, the threat of war remains a harsh reality. Many elderly Jews in Holocaust survivors have fled their homes. They're now seeking a place to live. They're in desperate need of life's basic needs like food and water. The international fellowship of Christians and Jews has been in Ukraine every day since the war actually started. The fellowship's partners and volunteers that are on the ground right now, they need your help to reach even more Jewish lives with life-saving food. So God's people of Ukraine can celebrate Passover, dignity and of ocean. In fact, the need for Passover meals has reached levels they have never seen before. Not only are they helping elderly Jews in harm's way in Ukraine, the international fellowship of Christians and Jews is also caring for orphan kids, families and Holocaust survivors living in extreme poverty throughout Israel and the former Soviet Union. With a gift of just 25 bucks, you can provide one person with a Passover food box filled with Matza and other special Passover foods. Plus, they've now worked out a special matching opportunity where your gift will double an impact. So go to Ben for the fellowship.org or call 803 3 1 37 37 To make a gift of just 25 bucks to the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, help rush a Passover food box. That's Ben for the fellowship.org or call 803 3 1 37 37. Rush over a Passover food box today and help out. Also, if you're looking for something interesting to watch, check out our brand new series, what we saw hosted by storyteller Bill Whittle, season one, focused on Apollo 11 right now for a limited time. All four of those episodes are available for free on YouTube. Meanwhile, at Daily Wire plus season two of what we saw is in full swing. This time Bill sets his sight on the Cold War and the tension between two superpowers that lasted for almost half a century. Episode five picks up with the death of Joseph Stalin as a newly inaugurated president. Eisenhower has just taken office with knives out for succession in the s s r Eisenhower sees this moment, this very brief window of opportunity to reset the conflict. Bill makes you feel like you're there. Witnessing history's tremendous series, new episodes of Cold War come out every single week. You have to be a member to see it. Go to daily wire.com/cold War to start watching today. Okay, meanwhile, our babbling idiot of a president has now announced that he wants to run for reelection in 2024. Meanwhile, world Wari is actually drawing ever closer. Not just because Donald Trump literally just put out on truth socially giant statement that just said World War three, but also because world Wari is actually drawing ever closer. I'll explain in a moment, but first I think that we need an inspiring, an inspiring announcement of Joe Biden's reelect effort. It was Easter Sunday and the president of the United States had some very inspiring and edifying words for all of us about his 2024 run. I was just wondering, Mr. President, will you be taking part in the Easter egg rolls after planning on after 2024? Well, I plan on at least three or four more Easter egg rolls. At least three or four more May, maybe five, maybe five, maybe maybe six. What the hell? So are You, are you saying that, that you would be taking part in our upcoming election in 24? Well, I'll, I'll either be rolling an egg or you know, being the good, you know the guy who's pushing him out. Come On. Help a, help a brother out. Make Some news for me. No, I, I plan on running now, but we're not prepared to announce it yet. Oh, you're gonna be rolling eggs or pushing them outta my <unk>. I know like Like a chicken. Like a chicken. I like chicken. Chicken is delicious. Fried, battered, taste delicious President And Joe Biden is standing there looking increasingly horrified like a deer in the, in the oncoming a deer in the headlights train is oncoming. Yeah, good stuff right there. That guy's with it. Well he has a strategy come 2024, according to Axios Joe Biden's actual strategy, he's going to lean on social media influencers. So get ready for all of your favorite makeup artists, Dylan Mulvaney, to put out inspiring videos about how Joe Biden must be reelected. President of the United States, according to Jen O'Malley Dillon, the White House deputy chief of staff, we're trying to reach young people but also moms use different platforms to get information and climate activists and people whose main way of getting information is digital. So who exactly is being given access to the Biden White House? This includes Harry Sisson, a 20 year old NYU student who breaks down the news on TikTok, Boston College professor Heather Cox Richardson, who has a widely read sub and huge Twitter following. And Vivian two, a former trader who discusses financial topics in short clips on TikTok and Instagram. Yeah, they're definitely gonna shut down TikTok probably, probably while they use TikTok In order to foster Joe Biden's reelect efforts, I'm sure China would be very, very happy with Joe Biden's reelect efforts given the strength that Joe Biden has now given to China. So China is growing ever more aggressive. They actually put out a video the other day of what it would look like when they take the war to Taiwan. Here's a little bit of that. Good morning George. Yeah. Another day of unpredictable Chinese drills around Taiwan this morning simulating sealing off this self-governed island. Taiwan says dozens of Chinese war planes, once again crossed the very sensitive de facto maritime border of the Taiwan's straight China's army releasing an animated video of what it would look like if key targets were hit. China sending a clear message that it's angry about a visit to the US by Taiwanese leader tying one when she met with house speaker Kevin McCarthy. So China has been upping the anti, according to the Associated press, China's military declared on Monday, it is quote, ready to fight after completing three days of large tail combat exercises around Taiwan that simulated sealing off the island in response to the Taiwanese president's trip to the United States last week, the combat readiness patrols named joint Soar were meant as a warning to self-governing Taiwan with China claims as its own. According to the Chinese military, they said put the theater's troops are ready to fight at all times and fight at any time to resolutely smash any form of Taiwan independence and foreign interference attempts. Those exercises were similar to the ones conducted by China last August. That is when they launched a few missiles around Taiwan to yell at basically Nancy Pelosi visiting. These are a little bit smaller and less disruptive apparently, but that's not actually the big move by China right here. The big move by China is that they're drawing ever closer to Europe. So you'll recall that Joe Biden, during the war in Ukraine, he's been given credit by the entire media for unifying Europe. Look at the leadership of Joe Biden. Now the reality is that Joe Biden led from behind who's late on every decision. Joe Biden you'll recall actually give a press conference in which he said that Russia could gobble up at least part of Ukraine with no repercussions. He didn't say the whole of Ukraine says like part of you ever let go into certain parts. I don't know that'll be war, but probably take this part. And it turns out that Russia was like, okay, we'll just eat the whole thing. And then he has slow walked AIDS Ukraine this entire way, despite people on the right suggesting that he's given like open-ended AIDS Ukraine. That actually isn't true. The reality is that Joe Biden has actually slow walked AIDS Ukraine, which is one of the reasons why according to leaked documents about the US war effort in Ukraine, Ukraine is now running short on missile defense systems, which is a real problem for them. Okay, so, but Europe was the one that was actually leading and then Joe Biden was sort of filling in the gaps. It was Poland that was leading, it was, believe it or not, Britain and France who were actually more aggressive at the beginning. And yet Joe Biden was out there taking all the credit and he was saying, listen, we're drawing closer to you because now that Russia is at war in Ukraine, that is alienating you from their oil supplies. So you are now more reliant on the United States. Look at this, look at the strategic opportunity. Well you would imagine then that if the president of France visited with Xi Jinping over in China, that it would be kind of a cool reception, right? It would be kind of like a, a little bit standoffish. You wouldn't expect them to be best friends or in after all, Joe Biden has suggested that China is an opponents of the United States. China is working with Russia in Ukraine pretty clearly. China has aggressive intent with regard to Taiwan and Joe Biden is apparently, you know, the center of European foreign policy. He's a guy who's unified the entire west according to our beloved media. Well, that's not what came out from that Emmanuel Macron visit. So first, Emmanuel Macron himself put out an extraordinarily warm video about going to China and he basically looks like a tourist. I mean he's just grinning ear to ear. He meets with Chinese officials and this is just a Chinese propaganda video on behalf of the French government <unk> He's now hugging Chinese officials and then like very fast clips of him visiting through China. Hello And here he is meeting with various people in China and talking with them and being best friends, visiting like videos of the Chinese soldiers who are walking in like propagandistic fashion. Here comes, here comes Xi and it's propaganda videos of G and then here comes Macron. They're all visiting, they're all happy Dapp, everything's Great Chanel. And then it turns out that that was just the first step because Macron actually then came out publicly and he said that Europe must reduce its dependency not on China, not on Russia, on the United States, and avoid getting dragged into a confrontation between China and the United States over Taiwan speaking with Politico and two French journalists. After spending around six hours with Xi Jinping, Macron emphasizes pet theory and strategic autonomy for Europe, presumably led by France to become a third superpower. He said, the great risk Europe faces, it gets caught up in crises that are not ours, which prevents it from building its strategic autonomy. He says the paradox would be that overcome with panic, we believe we are just America's followers. The question Europeans need to answer is, is it in our interest to accelerate a crisis on Taiwan? No. The worst thing would be to think that we, Europeans must become followers on this topic and take our cue from the US agenda and a Chinese overreaction just hours after his flight left, Kang Chao headed back to Paris, China launched large scale military exercises because as it turns out, one of the things that China desperately wants is flexibility from the Europeans, right? So Joe Biden couldn't, in order to dissuade China from invading Taiwan, you need to show a united front, this has been the entire premise of the war in Ukraine. You wanna stop, you wanna stop China from invading Taiwan showing United front in Ukraine. This has been like, this is not a secret. Everybody knows that this was the agenda item in Ukraine. It was with one eye toward China and Taiwan. And now the French are preemptively being like, yeah, you know, if, if, if you guys go to war over Taiwan, I'm not so sure we're in and maybe, maybe we should be like on China's side. I don't know, maybe. And and China immediately goes, okay, fine, let's ramp up those military exercises. Cause obviously we've got some wiggle room here between Europe and the United States. So excellent diplomacy here by the president of the United States, who is somehow achieved the signal feat of alienating the very allies who's supposed to unify. Plus, as it turns out, the allies of the United States are also being alienated by these leaks that came out. So there are a bunch of leaks that came out over the course of the last week with regard to American foreign policy in Ukraine. According to the Wall Street Journal, the Pentagon I Justice Department began an investigation last week into document leaks. When some purported US D O D presentations were posted by Russian propaganda's on Telegram on Thursday, the Wall Street Journal hasn't been able to independently verify their authenticity. But Pentagon spokeswoman, Sabrina Singh said, Sunday the US continue to assess the validity of the documents that appear to contain sensitive and highly classified material. Well some of that material suggests that Ukraine may run out of air defenses sometime in the very, very near future, which means Russia is going to escalate everything that is going on and American allies are freaking out about it. According to Politico US in crisis mode with allies after in Ukraine, Intel League senior and US officials now racing to placate frustrated and confused allies from Europe to the Middle East Kyiv following a leak of highly classified information about the war in Ukraine and other global issues. After news of the leap broke last week, senior intelligence State department and Pentagon officials reached out to their counterparts to quell worries about the publishing of the intel. According to four officials familiar with those conversations, one said that members of the five ayes, that's the intelligence consortium between the us, Canada, uk, Australia, and New Zealand, have asked for briefings from Washington, but they've never received a substantive response. Meanwhile, officials in London, Brussels, Berlin, Dubai in Kiev, questioned Washington about how the information ended up online in the first place. Who's responsible for the leak, what exactly was going to happen to stop all of this? So more crisis from this administration with regard to foreign policy, and again, China is getting stronger. The bricks nations recently surpassed the G seven in terms of total global G. Now again, that's not a fair comparison because the bricks nations also represent 41% of total global population. The G seven nations are nowhere near that. But what it does mean is that the aggregate power of those countries, and that would mainly be Russia, China, India, you know, Brazil and South Korea sort of brings up the rear there. That the, the possibility of providing a counterweight to western power, especially a fragmented western power, is quite real. Which is why you've seen so many nations in the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia and Iran and even allies like Israel starting to look at China and be like, do we have to triangulate here? What exactly are we supposed to do here? It's, it's, it's amazing. You want to generate dis-ease with the international system. All you have to do is follow Joe Biden's path here. He's created more chaos. More countries are looking to go nuclear. Now everyone feels less safe because Joe Biden is president of the United States. We are now closer than ever to World War III because Joe Biden is a very, very bad president. Meanwhile, the Pentagon has been relegated to warning journalists not to report on things, which is always a good sign. Here's John Kirby, who is the national security spokesperson, warning journalists that they shouldn't report on the leak documents. This is, again, without confirming the validity of the documents. This is information that has no business in the public domain. It has no business. If you don't mind me saying on the pages of of front pages of, of newspapers, or on television. It is not intended for public consumption and it should not be out there. This is what we've been relegated to. Just so many signs of strength. Okay, we'll get to more in just one moment. First, let's talk about the fact that you probably haven't changed something for a long time. Your underwear, and I don't mean that specific pair, I hope that you changed that recently. I'm just saying that they entire brand of underwear use uses garbage. You need better underwear. 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They don't just have customers, they have phonetics. Every purchase is backed by Tommy John's best pair you'll ever wear. Or it's free guaranteed. Get 20% off your first [email protected] slash ben. That's 20% [email protected] slash ben tommy john.com/ben incite for details. Alrighty, time for some things I like and then some things that I hate. So things that I like. When Americans decide that they are motivated to stop the woke corporate nonsense, it turns out that their purchasing power has real impact. So this is my favorite story of the day. Apparently Bud Light is just getting absolutely crushed in terms of its sales over the course of the last week and a half. It turns out, and when you decide their chief marketing effort needs to be led by a man pretending to be a woman who is also pretending to us to know what March madness is and that this is, this is the way that you're gonna go. You're going to diversify your audience away from essentially low income white people and toward instead, you know, like trans women. That terrible marketing strategy, according to Fox Business, bud like suffered a bloodbath this past weekend. Consumers nationwide revolted against the nation's top selling beer brand after, except recklessly into the Culture Wars last week with its new spokesperson, Dylan Mulvaney. According to bar owners and beer industry experts around the country, Jeff Fitter, owner of Kasen Bucks a restaurant in Sports Bar in Barnhart, Missouri, said, I think society flexes its muscles sometimes. He said in Bud Light's efforts to be inclusive. They excluded almost everybody else, including their traditional audience. Fitters Bar witnessed a catastrophic decrease in sales of the hometown suds among loyal and local customers. This week, sales Van Heiner Busch and Heiser Busch bottled products dropped 30% over the past week. Draft beer plummeted 50%. Bud Light normally outsells rival products like Miller Light and Coors Light 25 to one at Braintree Brewhouse in Massachusetts. That is sports by bar outside of Boston. Not this week, 80% Bud Light drinkers ordered something else this week, according to the brewhouse owner, the 20% who did order Bud Light weren't on social media and hadn't even heard about the transgender person pitch yet. One pub in Hell's Kitchen, a New York City neighborhood, known for its large and vocal gate community reported Blood Bud Light Draft Sales dropped 58% this week, bud Light Bottle sales were down 70%. Apparently that bar typically sells through three kegs a Bud Light at one of their events. This is, this is a, this is a sales rep in Texas, and they, they sponsor a weekly dart league with about a hundred plus players every Thursday night. That bar sells three kegs of Bud Light at the event usually, which is a total of 495 12 ounce pores. The bar sold a grand total of four 12 ounce Bud Light bottles the entire week. So it turns out, you know what Bud Light customers don't like Dylan Mulvaney ad campaigns. It turns out that is a bad, bad move according to some of the other owners quote, it's kind of mind boggling. They stepped into this realm. You're marketing to an audience that represents a fraction of 1% of consumers while alienating a much larger base of your consumers. Apparently, bud Light tails have been declining for years, and the brand is likely to be overtaken soon by Corona or model as the nation's top selling beer brand. According to industry observers, I mean, in, in the competition for which is the worst beer, I guess Bud Light is now coming in. You know, first they, they're the worst beer in America, but your marketing campaign did not help. Now, here's the thing you might imagine, you might imagine for just a fraction of one second, that the executive who's responsible for all of this would get fired, right? That the VP over at Anheuser-Busch, who's responsible for this nonsense, would lose her job. After all, she's done an absolutely horrifyingly terrible job, right? She, she's the person who suggested, as we played on yesterday's show, that they need to diversify their audience. The best way to diversify your audience is to find a man who pretends that he is a little girl, and then have him hold up a Bud Light can with a picture of himself on it. As a woman, that person will never be fired, ever for the rest of of her life. She has just ensured job security for herself forever. This is the beauty of wokeness. Her name is Alyssa Heiner. She is, Alyssa will be working for Bud Light the rest of her career as long as she wants to, because the minute she is fired, she will sue. This is the beauty of d e i. You hire people, you hire people for diversity and equity and inclusion, and then they promote diversity, equity, and inclusion, and then your business just explodes and you're like, oh, man, you did a crap job. I thought that you were in charge of selling more beer, not less beer. They're like, yes, but the beer, the people were selling beer too, are better people. And if you don't appreciate the moral quality of the people who now buy Bud Light, sure, it's like two of them. But they, they're the best people. They're transgender, half Native American, half black, half Hispanic, three halves, little people. They, those are the best people. And if you don't appreciate that and you fire me, I will sue you. I will sue you for discrimination against me, against the trans community. All I was doing was trying to make the world a better place. This is what happens when companies decide that they're not in the business of catering to their audience. They're in the business of making the world a better place. You're not, the way the companies typically make the world a better place is by providing goods and services that the market actually likes. It is not the job of Alyssa, whatever her name is, to actually promote world as better place from her Bud Light. No one is looking to Bud Light for moral guidance. It is a beer. If they wanna provide moral guidance, then they should get into the non-alcoholic beverage business. It turns out alcohol not amazing from moral guidance, but again, this is the best way to ensure job security forever is to be woke as f Okay? Meanwhile, a thing that I hate, Okay? So this is just an awful story and I hesitate to even comment on it because it's so terrifying and, and gross. So the Dalai Lama is 87 years old, and a video has now merged of the Dalai Lama being a super giant weirdo. That is, to put it very, very kindly in most other contexts, this would be considered pedophilic. I mean, I, I don't know how else to describe it. When an 87 year old man tells a child to suck his tongue, that is a thing that actually happened. And I, I know it's uncomfortable to talk about it, but it did happen. He is supposedly one of the world's great moral leaders. That's not good. Exactly. And by the way, you do know that the media have focused on it like a tiny little bit. Imagine that this was Pope Francis, okay? If this were Pope Francis, nonstop media coverage, entire Catholic church filled with pedophiles, that would be the media coverage, right? The, the, the entire Catholic church for 2000 years has been about molesting little boys, and now the evidence is right before it rise. Here you have that Ali caught on tape saying to a small child to suck his tongue, and the entire media's like, Ooh, okay, here we go. So there's this boy who went up to him and asked him for a hug that the La Lama called him on stage and said, along with that hug, give a kiss on the cheek. So he, he, he obliged that young boy. Straight after that, the Li Lama then asked for a kiss on the mouth. He pulled the boy's chin in and gave him a kiss on the mouth. Now, moments later then that the La Lama said, and I'm gonna to court him here and suck my tongue. Now, this clip has gone viral across social media. Sections of people on social media have called us outrageous. His holiness wishes to apologize to the boy and his family, as well as his many friends across the world for the hurt. His words may have caused. What's interesting here is Christine, they're not talking about his actions, but the words, Yeah, that would be the, the, that would be the, the weird thing about that. Now, you can say at this point that maybe the Dai Lama has lost it, and he's 87 years old. Maybe he's lost it. That that raises uncomfortable questions about the current presidents of the United States who has a, a penchant for smelling the hair of, of other human beings and happens to also be 80 years old. But, you know, you can say that he's lost it. The way that people very often lose it is not in super unpredictable ways. It's like the, the barriers sort of come down. So let's put it this way, if this does not launch a bunch of media investigations into this sort of behavior in this particular arena, then you know why? And the reason is, once again, certain religions are treated by the media in different ways than other religions are treated by the media. There's no question. But by the way, it's not just Catholics, right? If this had happened, if, if one of the major rabbis in the Jewish community had done this same sort of deal, major evangelical Christian had done this huge sort of deal, Muslims, not so much Buddhist, not so much, right? That that is the way that the Western media works on this sort of stuff. But does this require further explication? It seems to me, yes, because that's not just like a little bad. That is a lot bad. Alrighty guys, the rest of the show is continuing right now. You're not gonna miss it. We'll be getting into the mail bag. You have have to actually be a member over a Daily Wire Plus in order to have your question answered in the mail bag. If you're not a member, become member. Use Code Shapiro. Check out for two months free on all annual plans. Click the link in the description and join us.

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ep lefts new civil right hero fake publish rss feed m mass shooting grab headline louisville examine s fuel rise gun violence decade life marijuana begin collapse joe biden prep run europe cave china m bench ferro bench bureau episode bring good rancher free bacon great meat secure price extra buck code ben head good rancherscom use code ben buck order awful mass shooting louisville kentucky yesterday leave dead injure accord cnn year old bank employee open fire workplace downtown louisville kentucky monday morning live stream attack social medium favor world bad people attack leave dead injure authority initially say injure attack injure gunshot wound hospital spokesperson say originally say dead later dead mass shooting begin old national bank east main street accord police minute bank open public prominent people murder particular mass shooting apparently gunman say go fire proceed online post bunch weird stuff go shoot everybody medium coverage focus fact guy sort varsity athlete college ignore actually post morning not mention mass shooter thing post day shooting post meme meme star war jedi adam driver say know not know strength office space say burn place finally will not listen word protest let hear unclear mean workplace violence incident s political angle not know point kentucky governor andy bashir personal friend murder particular mass shooting awful close friend not today close friend not s hospital hope go to talk pray hope people ag campaign building know virtually s bank hope reach help need lot people hurt today place focus energy hope surround love compassion good show certainly proper response governor kentucky kentucky improper response come courtesy usual political actor president biden immediately swivel gun control talk say nation mourn senseless act gun violence jill pray life lose impact today shoot americans pay price inaction life war republicans congress act protect community weird control congress minute ago control senate control house representative pass close david hogg famous parkland shooting survivor building away parkland campus shooting happen go senator flora rick scott rick scott apparently friend guy tommy elliot say friend tommy elliot kill today louisville banker year news shocking sad anne louisville community pray family awful time david hog smart good person immediately tweet tough know complicit vial thing tweet karina jean pier exact routine world bad press secretary s blame g o p mass shooting kentucky way not matter kentucky mass shooting california exact math matter anytime s mass shooter republicans blame ll reason democrat like talk mass shooting not actually like talk know actual overall problem gun violence cuz thing real uncomfortable start talk s uptick overall gun violence united states karina er today president call republicans congress work democrat action ban assault weapon high capacity magazine require safe storage firearm know majority american people support instead ve watch republican official republican official republican official double dangerous bill school make place place worship make community safe americans pay life need act need republican courage republicans congress control congress not solution stuff grandstand garbage derive lie ve tell decade agree gun control proper solution thing like mass shooting insufficiently motivated stop murder insane come party legitimately try defund police couple year ago get second fact logic precious rarity crazy world know precious fact logic gold yeah go right literal right economy turmoil stock market tank s thing count precious metal birch gold s company trust help invest physical gold silver need protect money unstable economic climate ll help convert exist ira tax shelter ira precious metal invest birch gold ll protect saving inflation economic uncertainty like ron swanson right favorite libertarian tv hoarding gold silver like bacon egg buy gold birch gold want financial safety family text ben free info kit gold start invest financial future today plus rating well business bureau thousand happy customer countless star review birch gold company trust protect future text ben today start precious metal good hedge inflation uncertainty market s ve diversify text ben start friend birch gold okay raise question s lot focus medium mass shooting mass shooting represent fraction homicide gun happen nation statistic like mass shooting year united states definitional question mean shooting include people ll classify mass shooting s try play semantic game think mass shooting think like happen louisville think trans man shoot bunch christian school kid school near nashville tennessee s think think mass shooting like year like whoa not realize not okay sort spectacular victim mass shooting s maybe seven year like sort funnel active evil prevent thing s like year mean basically gang violence look gang member shoot reclassify mass shooting purpose drive notion thing crack shooting like happen louisville nashville overall problem gun homicide cuz focus overall problem gun homicide find quickly exactly happen answer big blue city big blue city gun homicide happen united states happen centrally locate neighborhood disproportionately black population inherent quality race like statistical fact s uncomfortable conversation left want point vermont lot gun virtually gun crime chicago lot gun ton gun crime suggest problem actually race gun problem societal structure incentivize crime area area implicate know actual governance area right focus chicago focus washington dc focus baltimore world require different solution look place govern democrat pretty time ve notice problem virtually murder united states happen city like one stat pew research come study week point number child teen kill gunfire united states increase s shocking statistic number kid teen kill gunfire biden administration medium s republican evil want kid die mass school shooting here reality vast majority child teen kill shooting kill school mass shooter obviously kill neighborhood people shoot people covid pandemic gun death kid age age figure increase gun death rate kid teen rise fatality minor resident year later s increase exactly happen number spike occur spike occur immediately black life matter protest soon black life matter happen cop remove high crime area united states gun homicide go not shocker turn gun death common group child teen accord pew number homicide lead type gun death suicide kid age suicide account significant share gun death age accident account sizable chair gun death racial ethnic difference s pew okay problem racial breakdown m argue pew racial ethnic difference gun death kid stark gun death gun death child teen involve black victim united states population year black small share gun death child teen involve white hispanic asian victim word share population gun death approximately equivalent percentage population overall hispanic white population country gun death black americans population gun death black kid time likely white kid die gunfire time likely increase death largely centralize post b l m post bbl m actually want stop death child actually want stop gun homicide generally think different thing ban gun ban gun be not go to look wrong place media focus mass shooting not talk actual problem gun homicide implicate policy instead misdirect republicans want gun street republican republicans real problem know real problem real problem insufficiently commit stop death fact little committed stop death destruction spend time expel heroic member tennessee state legislature medium decide cover hero yesterday socalle tennessee get to folk grandstand political actor see truly amazing amazing stuff example wanna tweet representative gloria johnson okay gloria johnson friend justin jones justin pearson jones pearson expel gloria johnson survive coward go floor tennessee legislature s like not guy like like sure one minute expel s like hero stand young black man hero hero wear cape picture not smile broadly give particular hand gesture camera sign say good morning america people look break mass shooting national tennessee source right reason protest turn quasi riot invade state capitol building course cause care victim tennessee people look like people deeply care victim look super duper happy tv super duper happy tvs imagine republican go tv talk mass shooting expression everybody medium like s creepy weird democrat mean hero grandstand crap avoid actual real conversation grandstand garbage second economy notice good need change spending habit not change way buy meat need price meat control let reason subscribe good rancher good rancher give free bacon year pound half bacon box value second good rancher offer price lock guarantee mean subscribe price change length subscription price meat expect increase year huge saving family good rancher meat unlike natural burger u s d prime steak well organic chicken change standard great meat m special person special kosher steak lemme tell kosher steak indicative way rest product good steak ve life good head good rancherscom use mycode ben buck order free bacon great meat secure price buck order use promo code bengoodrancherscom s good rancherscom american meat deliver okay grand standard amazing stuff medium ve decide go to focus actual real story real gun violence happen instead go to talk suppose victimization hero hero mean hero white lady karen accord washington post nashville expulsion step forward black resident ah black resident nashville real victim sure bunch christian school kid get murder real victim second round round real victim member trans community tran man murder bunch christian school kid s real victim real victim black people national tennessee wonder will not talk topic issue tran man murder christian kid wonder will not talk actual issue gun homicide united states area spring fit bill accord washington post week decision tennessee house representative kick black man represent area reinforce tajuana nation hearst state white man wield true power persistent legacy ingrain century say quote like step forward step like go forward southeastern nashville surround davidson county expulsion state representative justin jones represent area republicans boot memphis base legislator thursday roil emotion resident try sense mean future ah cosplaye revolution okay let talk cosplaye revolution nonsense number representative justin jones tennessee tennessee white lady not expel black guy get expel justin jones reinstate swear national metro council vote monday night reinstate jones seat lead jubilation street ah excitement s declaration s prepare document oath office sign chancellor see history right real time able step sign oath history person hear comment mark thompson civil right activist msnbc say certainly history s gun violence touch republicans not expect type reaction type backlash flight national today masse come ah absolute heroism cosplaye revolution let point people center justin pearson justin jones long history cosplaye revolution justin jones arrest charge tennessee highway patrol throw cup coffee elevator lawmaker allegedly state capitol person great respect state capitol build way apparently go elevator throw cup coffee state legislator time tennessee highway patrol report speaker glen cassada leave meeting elevator jones attempt push past trooper elevator not allow elevator apparently tennessee highway patrol say jones start yell speaker call racist throw cup unknown liquid believe coffee speaker person sit tennessee state legislator hero come shape size way like point point apparently problem whatsoever republicans republican oregon house expel oregon state house december june lawmaker oregon eject colleague office encourage people breach state capitol rule republican get expel s totally deserve need speaker tina kodak democrat say quote action blatant deliberate remorse jeopardize safety person capitol day new york times compare january siege democrats heroism republicans deserve expel legislature person ju justin jones people make actually go good morning america know smile super happy cuz s get day sunshine say like political lynching absurd consider exactly want s significantly famous know know lot picture lynching people lynch smile broadly camera good morning america sign go to point here heres justin jones play think s coincidence young black lawmaker m representative pearson kick entirely white member caucus strictly partisan line political lynching attempt spectacle example dare think equal s egregious people represent predominantly black brown constituent voice capitol hill right constituent relation speak yes oh heroism hero day justin pearson second talk people let ve let ve change public profile ll kindly moment let talk fact need black rifle coffee kid wake early single morning m barely awake kind stumble kitchen child pour cereal black rifle coffee get go single morning black rifle coffee fuel americans epic thing life ready drink can craft quality convenience want spartan level caffeine kick try black rifle ready drink electrifying blend mct oil amino acid supercharge day ready drink pack milligram caffeine plus come variety delicious flavor combine large dose wake heck ready drink can amazing grabandgo coffee option design boost need day love black rifle coffee excellent coffee portion single sale donate support veteran law enforcement responder buy black rifle m support people country safe free head black rifle coffeecom use promo code shapiro checkout order s black rifle coffeecom use promo code shapiro find black rifle coffee grocery convenience store near black rifle coffee americas coffee okay hero day course justin pearson d like introduce justin pearson go to say yesterday go past justin pear justin pearson good morning america mournful gun death tennessee good morning america smile broadly say not know break rule s lie m sorry know not know break rule token people trespass january day wander stand rope line know tour normal tour everybody leslie rioter evil terrible rioter throw prison forever one violent throw prison rest life obviously alive justin pearson lead crowd breach capitol building stand video middle capitol building bullhorn like s way normally business right rostrum ve see speaker house ve see kevin mccarthy bullhorn time federal legislative here justin pearson like not know wait say break know know violate decorum rule idea backlash like colleague idea break rule lead possible expulsion actual expulsion listen voter say need listen people want gun safety law need stop epidemic gun violence need stop proliferation weapon community addition school tragedy happen covenant school nashville instead address tragedy republican supermajority tennessee decide amendment right listen thousand protestor deserve expulsion not actually amendment right break capitol building building see rostrum start shout bullhorn turn s amazing medium coverage pretend tennessee legislature s true tennessee legislature literally pass bill increase security school pearson not like solution solution not serve political purpose say security officer solution weird literally single mass shooting stop presence security officer eventually question soon later walk floor silence speaker people position power not listen thousand people show capitol say walk floor peaceful protest know way end prevent gun violence happen republican party tennessee try gun security officer school solution right see erosion democracy erosion democracy okay guy cosplaye mean s cosplaye okay give speech weekend justin pearson local church kind wild here sound like let house lord m glad house lord morning mind go ahead pray mother god creator god love god holy god mother god servant dust connect raw material stardust speak moment bring forward word place heart accept unworthiness task bold seek guidance use speak ancestor preacher sermon hymn moon groan spiritual bondage slavery speak descendant okay reason m laugh clip justin pearson college run student president sound remotely like look completely different s wear like nice twopiece suit close crop haircut sound completely like m justin j pearson m run president b s g reason run campaign year representation represent voice conversation want partner organization bodhi democrat boon republicans wanna bring different voice dissent voice okay hear difference game politic play interste idiocy era way policy democrats actually pursue big city maximize gun homicide turn maximize gun homicide accord wall street journal chicago mayor elect brandon johnson get rid lori lightfoot decide mail lori lightfoot brandon johnson immediately declare priority large corporation pay tax say quote large corporation state illinois pay corporate tax kind restraint budget cause type disinvestment lead poverty course lead violence lack cop street hamstre cop fortify violent crime area city fact corporation need high taxis ll fun watch chicago turn completely detroit ignore real problem society favor fame fortune win political cosplay speak crime know amazing literally decade tell marijuana go normal american life completely nonaddictive real impact people start people recognize people lie long time accord new york times big proponent idea weed totally fine apparently nearly american teen adult cannabis use disorder addicted weed remember time people say weed nonaddictive little sketch know anybody circle friend s certainly people addicted weed s huge percentage people country particularly young people fact addict weed look underperformance millennial definitely people addicted weed underperform life accord new york times despite common misconception people addicted cannabis drug like alcohol cocaine state decriminalize legalize cannabis people accord national survey drug use health approximately americans old cannabis nearly teen adult qualified have cannabis use disorder clinical addiction comparison americans age alcoholic way worth point marijuana people today significantly potent marijuana people grow m m people people grow grow type marijuana ship border largely mexico type marijuana simply powerful kind marijuana kid smoke story like national review marijuana induce psychosis common accord national review kat mayberry grab backpack run door jacket glove run snow flurry cold minnesota day run street hill run nature trail near family home eden prairie southwest suburb minneapolis trent mayberry cat dad run year old daughter catch grab backpack stop sit frozen ground trent cry cat scared expressionless kat say let trent guide daughter home hold strap backpack director like joystick girl walk like zombie girl year early sunny honor student varsity athlete world fingertip sure shed marijuana trent pot basically harmless desperate trent jane take fall take daughter emergency room fall get real understanding trouble schizophrenia yes turn heavy use marijuana exacerbate problem psychosis ve tell lie medium marijuana long time country build idea fuddyduddy uncool point real danger child turn real danger actually materialize like ah happen shock shock happen place anybody legalization marijuana state level terrible bad completely destroy way city denver denver entire city smell like pot right s tremendous homelessness crime rate increase shock suppose surprise thing like happen generation suppose increasingly stupid way apparently address real problem world ignore real problem focus ancillary political discussion okay second joe biden oddly declare eligible presidency jews ukraine celebrate passover threat war remain harsh reality elderly jews holocaust survivor flee home seek place live desperate need life basic need like food water international fellowship christians jews ukraine day war actually start fellowship partner volunteer ground right need help reach jewish life lifesave food god people ukraine celebrate passover dignity ocean fact need passover meal reach level see help elderly jews harm way ukraine international fellowship christians jews care orphan kid family holocaust survivor live extreme poverty israel soviet union gift buck provide person passover food box fill matza special passover food plus ve work special matching opportunity gift double impact ben fellowshiporg gift buck international fellowship christians jews help rush passover food box s ben fellowshiporg rush passover food box today help look interesting watch check brand new series see host storyteller bill whittle season focus apollo right limited time episode available free youtube daily wire plus season see swing time bill set sight cold war tension superpower last half century episode pick death joseph stalin newly inaugurate president eisenhower take office knife succession s s r eisenhower see moment brief window opportunity reset conflict bill make feel like witness historys tremendous series new episode cold war come single week member daily wirecomcold war start watch today okay babble idiot president announce want run reelection world wari actually draw close donald trump literally truth socially giant statement say world war world wari actually draw close ill explain moment think need inspire inspiring announcement joe bidens reelect effort easter sunday president united states inspiring edify word run wonder mr president take easter egg roll plan plan easter egg roll maybe maybe maybe maybe hell say take upcoming election ill ill roll egg know good know guy s push come help help brother news plan run prepared announce oh go to roll egg push outta unk know like like chicken like chicken like chicken chicken delicious fried batter taste delicious president joe biden stand look increasingly horrified like deer oncoming deer headlight train oncoming yeah good stuff right guy strategy come accord axio joe biden actual strategy s go lean social medium influencer ready favorite makeup artist dylan mulvaney inspire video joe biden reelect president united states accord jen omalley dillon white house deputy chief staff try reach young people mom use different platform information climate activist people main way get information digital exactly give access biden white house include harry sisson year old nyu student break news tiktok boston college professor heather cox richardson widely read sub huge twitter follow vivian trader discuss financial topic short clip tiktok instagram yeah definitely go to shut tiktok probably probably use tiktok order foster joe bidens reelect effort m sure china happy joe bidens reelect effort give strength joe biden give china china grow aggressive actually video day look like war taiwan here little bit good morning george yeah day unpredictable chinese drill taiwan morning simulating seal selfgoverned island taiwan say dozen chinese war plane cross sensitive de facto maritime border taiwan straight china army release animate video look like key target hit china send clear message angry visit taiwanese leader tie meet house speaker kevin mccarthy china up anti accord associated press chinas military declare monday quote ready fight complete day large tail combat exercise taiwan simulate seal island response taiwanese president trip united states week combat readiness patrol name joint soar mean warning selfgoverne taiwan china claim accord chinese military say theater troop ready fight time fight time resolutely smash form taiwan independence foreign interference attempt exercise similar one conduct china august launch missile taiwan yell basically nancy pelosi visit little bit small disruptive apparently s actually big china right big china draw close europe ll recall joe biden war ukraine s give credit entire medium unify europe look leadership joe biden reality joe biden lead s late decision joe biden ll recall actually press conference say russia gobble ukraine repercussion not ukraine say like let certain part not know ll war probably turn russia like okay eat thing slow walk aids ukraine entire way despite people right suggesting s give like openende aids ukraine actually not true reality joe biden actually slow walk aids ukraine reason accord leak document war effort ukraine ukraine run short missile defense system real problem okay europe actually lead joe biden sort fill gap poland lead believe britain france actually aggressive beginning joe biden take credit say listen draw close russia war ukraine alienate oil supply reliant united states look look strategic opportunity imagine president france visit xi jinpe china kind cool reception right kind like little bit standoffish not expect good friend joe biden suggest china opponent united states china work russia ukraine pretty clearly china aggressive intent regard taiwan joe biden apparently know center european foreign policy s guy s unify entire west accord beloved media s come emmanuel macron visit emmanuel macron extraordinarily warm video go china basically look like tourist mean s grin ear ear meet chinese official chinese propaganda video behalf french government unk s hug chinese official like fast clip visit china hello meet people china talk good friend visit like video chinese soldier walk like propagandistic fashion come come xi propaganda video g come macron visit happy dapp everything great chanel turn step macron actually come publicly say europe reduce dependency china russia united states avoid getting drag confrontation china united states taiwan speak politico french journalist spend hour xi jinpe macron emphasize pet theory strategic autonomy europe presumably lead france superpower say great risk europe face get catch crisis prevent build strategic autonomy say paradox overcome panic believe america follower question european need answer interest accelerate crisis taiwan bad thing think europeans follower topic cue agenda chinese overreaction hour flight leave kang chao head paris china launch large scale military exercise turn thing china desperately want flexibility europeans right joe biden not order dissuade china invade taiwan need united entire premise war ukraine wanna stop wanna stop china invade taiwan show united ukraine like secret everybody know agenda item ukraine eye china taiwan french preemptively like yeah know guy war taiwan m sure maybe maybe like chinas not know maybe china immediately go okay fine let ramp military exercise cause obviously ve get wiggle room europe united states excellent diplomacy president united states achieve signal feat alienate ally s suppose unify plus turn ally united states alienate leak come bunch leak come course week regard american foreign policy ukraine accord wall street journal pentagon justice department begin investigation week document leak purport d o d presentation post russian propaganda telegram thursday wall street journal not able independently verify authenticity pentagon spokeswoman sabrina singh say sunday continue assess validity document appear contain sensitive highly classify material material suggest ukraine run air defense near future mean russia go escalate go american ally freak accord politico crisis mode ally ukraine intel league senior official race placate frustrated confused ally europe middle east kyiv follow leak highly classified information war ukraine global issue news leap break week senior intelligence state department pentagon official reach counterpart quell worry publishing intel accord official familiar conversation say member aye s intelligence consortium canada uk australia new zealand ask briefing washington ve receive substantive response official london brussels berlin dubai kiev question washington information end online place s responsible leak exactly go happen stop crisis administration regard foreign policy china get strong brick nation recently surpass g seven term total global g s fair comparison brick nation represent total global population g seven nation near mean aggregate power country mainly russia china india know brazil south korea sort bring rear possibility provide counterweight western power especially fragmented western power real ve see nation middle east include saudi arabia iran ally like israel start look china like triangulate exactly suppose amazing want generate disease international system follow joe bidens path s create chaos country look nuclear feel safe joe biden president united states close world war iii joe biden bad president pentagon relegate warn journalist report thing good sign here john kirby national security spokesperson warn journalist not report leak document confirm validity document information business public domain business not mind say page page newspaper television intend public consumption ve relegate sign strength okay moment let talk fact probably not change long time underwear not mean specific pair hope change recently m say entire brand underwear use use garbage need well underwear rock worn cotton undie time new pair tommy john underwear life significantly well tommy john underwear problem underwear brand tommy john solve tommy john underwear breathable lightweight moisture wicke fabric time stretch compete brand design tommy john underwear come wedgie guarantee thank non rolling waistband leg ride ve super helpful high school wear tommy john comfortable well durable breathable lightweight yeah actually great man tommy john underwear throw underwear wife actually tommy johns stuff throw stuff million pair sell people rave tommy john not customer phonetic purchase back tommy johns good pair ll wear free guarantee ordertommyjohnscom slash ben s offtommyjohncom slash ben tommy johncomben incite detail alrighty time thing like thing hate thing like americans decide motivate stop woke corporate nonsense turn purchasing power real impact favorite story day apparently bud light get absolutely crush term sale course week half turn decide chief marketing effort need lead man pretend woman pretend know march madness way go to go diversify audience away essentially low income white people instead know like tran woman terrible marketing strategy accord fox business bud like suffer bloodbath past weekend consumer nationwide revolt nations sell beer brand recklessly culture war week new spokesperson dylan mulvaney accord bar owner beer industry expert country jeff fitter owner kasen bucks restaurant sport bar barnhart missouri say think society flex muscle say bud light effort inclusive exclude everybody include traditional audience fitter bar witness catastrophic decrease sale hometown sud loyal local customer week sale van heiner busch heiser busch bottled product drop past week draft beer plummet bud light normally outsell rival product like miller light coor light braintree brewhouse massachusetts sport bar outside boston week bud light drinker order week accord brewhouse owner order bud light not social medium not hear transgender person pitch pub hells kitchen new york city neighborhood know large vocal gate community report blood bud light draft sale drop week bud light bottle sale apparently bar typically sell keg bud light event sale rep texas sponsor weekly dart league plus player thursday night bar sell keg bud light event usually total ounce pore bar sell grand total ounce bud light bottle entire week turn know bud light customer not like dylan mulvaney ad campaign turn bad bad accord owner quote kind mind boggle step realm market audience represent fraction consumer alienate large base consumer apparently bud light tail decline year brand likely overtake soon corona model nations sell beer brand accord industry observer mean competition bad beer guess bud light come know bad beer america marketing campaign help here thing imagine imagine fraction second executive s responsible fire right vp anheuserbusch s responsible nonsense lose job s absolutely horrifyingly terrible job right s person suggest play yesterday need diversify audience good way diversify audience find man pretend little girl hold bud light picture woman person fire rest life ensure job security forever beauty wokeness alyssa heiner alyssa work bud light rest career long want minute fire sue beauty d e hire people hire people diversity equity inclusion promote diversity equity inclusion business explode like oh man crap job think charge sell beer beer like yes beer people sell beer well people not appreciate moral quality people buy bud light sure like good people transgend half native american half black half hispanic half little people good people not appreciate fire sue sue discrimination trans community try world well place happen company decide business cater audience business make world well place way company typically world well place provide good service market actually like job alyssa actually promote world well place bud light look bud light moral guidance beer wanna provide moral guidance nonalcoholic beverage business turn alcohol amazing moral guidance good way ensure job security forever wake f okay thing hate okay awful story hesitate comment terrifying gross dalai lama year old video merge dalai lama super giant weirdo kindly context consider pedophilic mean not know describe year old man tell child suck tongue thing actually happen know uncomfortable talk happen supposedly world great moral leader s good exactly way know medium focus like tiny little bit imagine pope francis okay pope francis nonstop medium coverage entire catholic church fill pedophile medium coverage right entire catholic church year molest little boy evidence right rise ali catch tape say small child suck tongue entire media like ooh okay s boy go ask hug la lama call stage say hug kiss cheek oblige young boy straight li lama ask kiss mouth pull boy chin give kiss mouth moment later la lama say m go to court suck tongue clip go viral social medium section people social medium call outrageous holiness wish apologize boy family friend world hurt word cause s interesting christine talk action word yeah weird thing point maybe dai lama lose s year old maybe s lose raise uncomfortable question current president united states penchant smell hair human being happen year old know s lose way people lose super unpredictable way like barrier sort come let way launch bunch medium investigation sort behavior particular arena know reason certain religion treat medium different way religion treat medium s question way catholic right happen major rabbi jewish community sort deal major evangelical christian huge sort deal muslim buddhist right way western medium work sort stuff require explication yes s like little bad lot bad alrighty guy rest continue right go to miss get mail bag actually member daily wire plus order question answer mail bag member member use code shapiro check month free annual plan click link description join

This bill authorizes the President to waive certain payments and requirements for deliveries of ammunition to Ukraine until the armed conflict in Ukraine ends. Specifically, for certain types of ammunition or ordnance to be delivered to a qualified entity providing such items to Ukraine, the President may transport the items without charging the transportation costs to Ukraine. The President may also, to expedite delivery of such items, waive any applicable Department of State or Department of Commerce export criteria.

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bill authorize president waive certain payment requirement delivery ammunition ukraine armed conflict ukraine end specifically certain type ammunition ordnance deliver qualified entity provide item ukraine president transport item charge transportation cost ukraine president expedite delivery item waive applicable department state department commerce export criterion

This bill requires federal agencies to report to the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) information about each performance bonus awarded to an employee. The OPM must publish such information.

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bill require federal agency report office personnel management opm information performance bonus award employee opm publish information

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill provides funding for grants to states and local governments to support the use of body-worn cameras by law enforcement.

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bill provide funding grant state local government support use bodyworn camera law enforcement

This bill requires the United States to oppose, absent specified conditions, any increase in the weight of Chinese currency (i.e., the renminbi) in the basket of currencies used to determine the value of Special Drawing Rights. Special Drawing Rights are a currency support tool available to members of the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Specifically, the Department of the Treasury must instruct certain U.S. officials at the IMF to oppose any such increase unless Treasury has certified that (1) China is in compliance with all general obligations of members of the IMF, (2) China has not been found to have manipulated its currency in the preceding 12 months, and (3) China is implementing policies and practices necessary to ensure that the renminbi is freely usable.

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bill require united states oppose absent specify condition increase weight chinese currency ie renminbi basket currency determine value special drawing right special drawing right currency support tool available member international monetary fund imf specifically department treasury instruct certain official imf oppose increase treasury certify china compliance general obligation member imf china find manipulate currency precede month china implement policy practice necessary ensure renminbi freely usable

Title: Williams College Date: October 17, 1919 Location: Williamstown, MA Context: Address to Williams College on their honor and pride and what justifies them (Original document available here) There speaks here with the voice of immortality one who loved Massachusetts. On every side arise monuments to that enduring affection bred not of benefits received but of services rendered, of sacrifices made, that the province of Massachusetts Bay might live enlightened and secure. A bit of parchment has filled libraries. A few hundred dollars has enriched generations. The spirit of a single liberty-loving soldier has raised up a host that has shaken the earth with its martial tread, laying low the hills but exalting the valleys. Here Colonel Ephraim Williams still executes his will, still disposes of his patrimony, still leads the soldiers of the free to an enduring victory, and with a power greater than the sword stands guard on the frontier marches of the Commonwealth. Honor compels that honor be recognized. In compliance with that requirement this day has been set apart by this institution of letters in testimony of the merit of her sons. Nearly one half of her living alumni were under the direct service of the Nation in the great war. Into all branches of the service, civil and military, they went from the alumni, from the class rooms, from the faculty, up to President Garfield himself, who served as Director of the Fuel Administration. From America and her allies has come the highest of recognition, conferred by citation, awards, and decorations. Their individual deeds of valor I shall not relate. They are known to all. Advisedly I say that they have not been surpassed among men. Their heroism was no less heroic because it was unconscious there or because of befitting modesty it is unostentatious here. There was yet a courage unequaled by the most momentous dangers which were met by those now marked with fame and a capacity in the others which would have matched equal events with equal fortitude. In the most grateful recognition of all this, to the living and the dead, by their Alma Mater the Commonwealth of Massachusetts reverently joins. But this day, if it is truly to represent the spirit of this college, means more than a glorification of the past. It was by a stern determination to discharge the duties of the present that Ephraim Williams provided for a future filled with a glory that must not yet be termed complete. His thoughts were not on himself nor on material things. Had he chosen to inscribe his name upon a monument of granite or of bronze it would have gone the way of all the earth. Enlightening the soul of his fellow man he made his mark which all eternity cannot erase. A soldier, he did not “put his trust In reeking tube and iron shard” to save his countrymen, but like Solomon chose first knowledge and wisdom and to his choice has likewise been added a splendor of material prosperity. Earth’s great lesson is written here. In it all men may read the interpretation of the founder of this college, of the meaning of America, of the motive high and true which has inspired her soldiers. Not unmindful of a desire for economic justice but scorning sordid gain, not seeking the spoils of war but a victory of righteousness, they came, subordinating the finite to the infinite, placing their trust in that which does not pass away. This precept heretofore observed must not be abandoned now. A desire for the earth and the fullness thereof must not lure our people from their truer selves. Those who seek for a sign merely in a greatly increased material prosperity, however worthy that may be, disappointed through all the ages, will be disappointed now. Men find their true satisfaction in something higher, finer, nobler than all that. We sought no spoils from war; let us seek no spoil from peace. Let us remember Babylon and Carthage and that city which her people, flushed with purple pride, dared call Eternal. This college and her sons have turned their eyes resolutely toward the morning. Above the roar of reeking strife they hear the voice of the founder. Their actions have matched their vision. They have seen. They have heard. They have done. I thank you for receiving me into their company, so romantic, so glorious, and for enrolling me as a soldier in the legion of Colonel Ephraim Williams. Calvin Coolidge, Have Faith in Massachusetts: A Collection of Speeches and Messages, 2nd ed. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1919 The Coolidge Foundation gratefully acknowledges the volunteer efforts of Greg Harkenrider, who prepared this document for digital publication. Name (required) Email (will not be published) (required) Comment DONATE • NEWSLETTER Privacy Policy | Terms of Use Copyright © 2024 Calvin Coolidge Presidential Foundation, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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title williams college date october location williamstown ma context address williams college honor pride justify original document available speak voice immortality love massachusetts arise monument endure affection breed benefit receive service render sacrifice province massachusetts bay live enlighten secure bit parchment fill library dollar enrich generation spirit single libertylove soldier raise host shake earth martial tread lay low hill exalt valley colonel ephraim williams execute dispose patrimony lead soldier free endure victory power great sword stand guard frontier marche commonwealth honor compel honor recognize compliance requirement day set apart institution letter testimony merit son nearly half living alumnus direct service nation great war branch service civil military go alumnus class room faculty president garfield serve director fuel administration america ally come high recognition confer citation award decoration individual deed valor shall relate know advisedly surpass man heroism heroic unconscious befit modesty unostentatious courage unequale momentous danger meet mark fame capacity match equal event equal fortitude grateful recognition living dead alma mater commonwealth massachusetts reverently join day truly represent spirit college mean glorification past stern determination discharge duty present ephraim williams provide future fill glory term complete thought material thing choose inscribe monument granite bronze go way earth enlighten soul fellow man mark eternity erase soldier trust reek tube iron shard save countryman like solomon choose knowledge wisdom choice likewise add splendor material prosperity earth great lesson write man read interpretation founder college meaning america motive high true inspire soldier unmindful desire economic justice scorn sordid gain seek spoil war victory righteousness came subordinate finite infinite place trust pass away precept heretofore observe abandon desire earth fullness thereof lure people truer selve seek sign merely greatly increase material prosperity worthy disappoint age disappoint man find true satisfaction high fine nobler seek spoil war let seek spoil peace let remember babylon carthage city people flush purple pride dare eternal college son turn eye resolutely morning roar reek strife hear voice founder action match vision see hear thank receive company romantic glorious enrol soldier legion colonel ephraim williams calvin coolidge faith massachusetts collection speech message ed boston houghton mifflin company coolidge foundation gratefully acknowledge volunteer effort greg harkenrider prepare document digital publication require email publish require comment donate newsletter privacy policy term use copyright calvin coolidge presidential foundation inc right reserve

This act reauthorizes through FY2027 grants awarded to state offices of rural health for improving health care in rural areas.

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act reauthorize grant award state office rural health improve health care rural area

This bill prohibits funds provided for the official travel expenses of a Member of Congress from being used for airline accommodations that are not coach-class, unless the accommodations are necessary to accommodate a medical disability or other special need.

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bill prohibit fund provide official travel expense member congress airline accommodation coachclass accommodation necessary accommodate medical disability special need

This bill excludes certain communications facility deployment or modification projects from specified review requirements. Specifically, the bill excludes from specified environmental and historic preservation review a project for the deployment or modification of a communications facility that is to be carried out entirely within a floodplain (the lowland and relatively flat areas adjoining inland and coastal waters).

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bill exclude certain communication facility deployment modification project specify review requirement specifically bill exclude specify environmental historic preservation review project deployment modification communication facility carry entirely floodplain lowland relatively flat area adjoin inland coastal water

Speeches, etc. Each year as Christmas approaches we notice that the commercial preparations for its celebration increase. More streets are decorated with lights, more Christmas cards are sent, more presents are bought and more money is spent than ever before. These out-ward signs of the Christmas season give a lot of pleasure to the children (and a lot of expense to their parents!), but they do not bring home the true spirit of Christmas with its eternal message of Peace on earth, Goodwill towards men. This year I have been deeply impressed with the plight of the newly-widowed mother who has young children to support. Just when her grief is greatest she has to rise to more responsibilities than she has ever before faced. The children too are at a loss to understand the tragedy that has befallen them. May I appeal to those of you who know such cases to do everything you can to brighten their lives and to bring some joy and happiness to their homes. My Denis Thatcherhusband and I wish you a happy Christmas and a good New Year. Margaret Thatcher. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc year christmas approach notice commercial preparation celebration increase street decorate light christmas card send present buy money spend outward sign christmas season lot pleasure child lot expense parent bring home true spirit christmas eternal message peace earth goodwill man year deeply impressed plight newlywidowe mother young child support grief great rise responsibility face child loss understand tragedy befall appeal know case brighten life bring joy happiness home denis thatcherhusband wish happy christmas good new year margaret thatcher copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Mr. David Howell (Guildford) I beg to move, in page 3, line 33, to leave out from ‘the’ to the end of line 39 and insert With it may I discuss the linking amendment, No. 8, in page 4, line 2, leave out ‘10’ and insert ‘15’. The Chairman If that is for the convenience of the Committee. Mr. Howell The story behind these amendments will be very familiar to some Members of the Committee, but for those who may not have followed all its aspects, it is worth while going over some of the story again—and a very shoddy story it is. I should like to take the Committee back to the night of the 16th July when an amendment moved by, I believe, the hon. Member for Cornwall, North (Mr. Pardoe) was carried after a rather desultory debate by 16 votes. That amendment rejected proposals by the then minority Government to change the threshold for the investment income surcharge from £2,000 to £1,000, or down to £1,500 for those over 65. Although it was desultory debate, it was rather significant because it contained a chilling phrase of the Chief Secretary that he regarded the people concerned and affected by the amendment—and we are talking here for the most part of elderly people, not necessarily retired but getting on, who have saved up and are living on a savings and investment income considerably lower than the average wage in Britain today—as the “lowest priority” . That brought home to some of my hon. Friends on this side [column 476]of the Committee just exactly what were the views of the Chief Secretary and his colleagues on priorities and their view of the kind of people we believe needed to be helped. The House and Parliament at that time rejected the proposals of the Government but on 12th November, after a General Election, the Chancellor of the Exchequer came forward again and announced that he wished to reverse the matter and to go back to his original proposals of 26th March last year and that he intended to do so retrospectively. He did not, of course, say it in that way. He offered no arguments whatever. If hon. Members will turn to the Chancellor's Budget Statement of 12th November 1974 they will see that he said —the Chancellor admitted it quite frankly— Whether or not one agrees with that sentiment, and I do not, that has nothing to do with what the Chancellor is proposing. It is just possible to argue that if the Government elected on 10th October 1974 wish in 1975 to attack elderly couples living on sums which are below the average weekly wage in this country they have some right to do so. I do not believe in the doctrine of the mandate but I suppose than an argument of that kind could be produced. What the Government have no right to do is to legislate into the past and overturn the clear decision of a previous Parliament on this matter. We regard this as an unpleasant piece of political horse trading which we shall oppose. The amendments do two things. First, they restore what would have been the position on 26th March last year, and, secondly, they go a little further and propose an additional concession for retired people—the extra £500 for the £2,000 not attracting the 15 per cent. I emphasise the date of 26th March 1974 and that we are talking about income [column 477]generated from investment and savings during 1974 up to the end of the financial year 1974–75. That is money that has already been largely spent, if the spending is in an even flow. If we were dealing not with March of last year but with the position now, all of these figures would need radical adjustments. Mrs. Elaine Kellett-Bowman (Lancaster) Does this not also apply to those who have been severely injured through accidents and are living on the income from their damages? Mr. Howell My hon. Friend is quite right. I will come to a number of such categories. Should the Government be unwise enough to continue with this shady practice and insist on their new proposal in this Bill we shall come to other amendments which will deal with specific categories covering that sort of situation. If we were to deal with the situation now as opposed to last March we would need to make a substantial adjustment to these figures to leave people in the same position as they would have been in before 26th March because there has been a fall of at least 12 per cent. in the purchasing power of the pound. We shall no doubt be debating the question of monetary correction and indexing during our debates here and in Standing Committee. On this occasion we are simply trying to prevent a nasty piece of retrospective injustice. I have no doubt that in the Chief Secretary's brief there will be, first of all, some familiar arguments, and maybe, if we are lucky, one or two new ones dealing with why this is very difficult for him and why he wants to stick to the Chancellor's proposals to carry through this retrospective measure. We shall be told it helps people with an investment income of more than £2,000 a year. That is not so terrible in itself and it is a flimsy excuse for hurting many thousands with less than that. It is also a direct discouragement to saving. Secondly, we may hear, and this would be a change from the repetitious arguments of last July, that it will all be all right and we should not worry because the age allowance mentioned by the Chancellor in his Budget Statement will put everything right for people paying on £3,000 a year. [column 478] We are not concerned with 1975–76. We are talking about what has happened, about the year which began in April 1974 and is nearly over. I hope that we shall not be fobbed off or diverted by the Treasury Bench argument that it will be all right in future. We are concerned with what has happened and what is happening now rather than any proposals the Government may have up their sleeve for the Spring Finance Bill. A third objection which may be put is that this proposal of ours will cost money. That is so. The Treasury estimate in the summer was that it would cost about £40 million, and presumably that would need to be revised now. We have no hesitation is saying that if money has to be found for this change it should come from cuts in Government spending, cuts which the Government are presumably preparing and about which we shall hear in due course when their next emergency package comes forward. Throughout the passage of this Bill I and my right hon. Friend will be supporting measures which encourage saving for investment. We shall be opposing measures which are hostile to saving for investment. In doing so we believe that we shall be following the Chancellor's injunction to get the nation to switch out of consumption and provide the savings which are essential to his objectives, which are to finance more investment, to consume less in relation to what we produce, and to put more aside to save and finance tomorrow's investment. The difference is that, unlike the Chancellor and the Chief Secretary, we are not content to make a speech about it and then duck down and wait for the mud to fly from the Left wing. We want to do something about it. We deplore this measure not only for its retrospection but because it is part—and we shall see many other parts before this Bill is enacted—of the Government's war on savings. In their hearts they do not believe in the idea of private savings. They do not wish to encourage them, and whatever speeches may be made by the Chancellor or anyone else about the need to save and switch resources out of consumption it is a certain bet that every measure contained in this Bill or other Bills which the Government will present [column 479]in this sphere will continue that war on private savings. My hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster (Mrs. Kellett-Bowman) mentioned one of the categories of people who will be hit. We shall be referring to all these categories in due course. There are the disabled, possibly well over 1 million of whom cannot work full time. There are widows with children, and pensioners who purchased annuities with a lump sum and now find that while part of the annuity comes tax-free the other part suffers this impost. There are many other categories. One category which the Chancellor thought he was helping in some concessions he hinted at—had he been able to get his measure through last May and June—was that of divorced people with children. He said that the first £1,000 of investment income would be free of surcharge and the first £1,000 of maintenance income. In real life, the maintenance often does not come through. Does it follow that there is to be a penalty? The answer is that under the present proposals the Government believe that there would be a penalty upon the divorced person trying to live on an investment income which may be in the region of £1,500 to £1,800. The maintenance does not come through and, therefore, they do not qualify for relief. My hon. Friends will no doubt raise many other categories and have many stories to tell of the kind of people who will be hit by this nasty little measure. It is part of the business of concessions between the Chancellor and the Left wing of the Labour Party. Obviously, the right hon. Gentleman has his problems trying to settle that account. Every one else sees this for what it is. It is a piece of political horse-trading, the victims of which are many thousands of people who do not deserve to be treated in that way. It has been said that the only people who would escape the previous Chancellor's measures were the quick and the dead. As we shall learn from future debates and amendments, not even the dead will escape many of the provisions of this Finance Bill. The quick, if they are quick in spending, may get rid of some of their savings and avoid paying the penalties. They will thus escape some of the provision of the Bill by doing [column 480]the exact opposite of what is needed from the national point of view, which is to increase savings rather that to increase spending. The provision which we seek to amend back to its previous state is an attempt to legislate over a period back to when the Government were not in power. There was then a minority Government, admittedly a Labour Government, in a different situation with a different from of parliamentary support. Because this measure tries to legislate back over that period, and because it is utterly hostile to private savings, we seek to press the amendments to restore the previous position, and I commend them to the Committee. Mr. David Mitchell (Basingstoke) The clause applies an extra tax to anyone whose income from investments exceeds approximately £20 per week and to anyone over 65 whose income from investments exceeds approximately £30 per week. The clause is unfair, vindictive and against the national interest, and I hope that the amendment will be supported vigorously by my hon. and right hon. Friends. The clause is unfair because a business executive with a company pension, a retired civil servant with a Civil Service pension, a retired member of the armed forces, a bank manager and others who have superannuation schemes are able to have an income which is supplementary to the State pension without incurring the investment surcharge. A person who has worked overseas and brought back a lump sum which he has invested is clobbered. Small business men who have had a small factory or workshop, market gardeners and small shopkeepers who have sold their businesses, retired and are living on income from the sale of those businesses are clobbered. I am glad to see that the Under-Secretary of State for Industry, who is responsible for small businesses, is sitting on the Government Front Bench. I hope that he will seek to justify the clause, which is a powerful and unfair attack on the small shopkeeper and the like. The clause applies to people who during their working lives have ploughed their savings into a business. With the [column 481]present rate of inflation, every small business has become a rapacious consumer of funds. A business which has £1,000 worth of stock on its shelves this year, with a 20 per cent. rate of inflation, will need £1,200 worth of stock on its shelves next year so as to have the same number of tins, bottles and so on. Countless small businesses have been drawing on the proprietor's savings in the form of extra working capital just to keep going. The proprietors have had no money to put aside for a pension or superannuation benefit. Many have sold their businesses. They were clobbered by capital gains tax but hoped to be able to live off what was left. As I came into the Chamber I cast my mind back to a couple of examples. Hon. Members may remember Jimmy Jones, the milkman in Crooked Lane in the City. His place has gone now and has been replaced by a pub and a bank. Jimmy Jones and his wife both worked in the business. They had a milk round in the City in the morning and at lunch-time they had a clientele which consisted of bank clerks, shop managers, city cleaners and myself. They did the best baked jam roll that was obtainable in the City in those days. Mrs. Jones did her cooking in the kitchen at the back with sweat pouring off her from early in the morning until late at night. Jimmy Jones is retired and living on his savings now. Those two worked hard to have the capital to invest to enable them to live in reasonable comfort in old age, and are a typical example of the people who have been picked on by the Chancellor for such unfair treatment. I think also of a shopkeeper in Basingstoke, which is an expanded town. The council compulsorily purchased the business when the shopkeeper was 62, too old to be able to start afresh, so he had to take the compensation money, which represents his savings. He, too, is clobbered. It is unfair that the well-paid bank manager should not be clobbered when the retired small business man is clobbered. The Government should think again about this provision on grounds of fairness alone. The clause is also vindictive. It is an unwarranted attack on those who have saved throughout their working lives. [column 482]Those people are not wealthy. Let us look at the capital sums which will give the sort of income with which we are dealing. For someone who had invested savings in Consols the Government relief would start at £6,123 or on £9,185 if the person was over 65. Under the modest amendment that person would be able to receive £12,246 on the investment before he started to pay the surcharge, and £15,207 if he was over 65. Let us take an investment in the Commercial and Industrial Preferred Index, which is a usual investment for someone who seeks to safeguard his old age. The Government relief starts at £5,316 or £7,974 if the person is over 65. Those are minuscule amounts. The amendment would apply to investments of £10,632 or for a retired person, £13,290. That is less than the cost of an average four bedroomed house, and that is the point at which people are clobbered by the clause. If we take the All-Share Index we find that the amounts are £9,000 and £13,500 for a person over 65, on which the Government seek to allow relief. On the All-Share Index the modest amendment means that someone with an investment of more than £18,000 would start to pay the surcharge or more than £22,500 if he is over 65. To clobber a man who throughout his working life has saved such a modest sum—and his widow—is vindictive in the extreme. I urge the Committee to support the amendment and to reject the clause, which is unfair and vindictive. Thirdly, I urge the Committee to support the amendment because it is in the national interest, and the Bill is against the national interest for one straightforward reason which everyone can understand. There are countless analyses of Britain's problems. There are as many different solutions as there are economists or working men's clubs. One thing on which they all agree is that we need more investment and more capital. More investment means more capital, and more capital means more savings. It is the only way to obtain such money unless it is borrowed abroad. But apparently the present Government prefer to borrow abroad and to run up debts for future generations rather than encourage the present generation to save, build up capital and invest it. [column 483] The Government have vindictively clobbered those who have saved in their working lives and will discourage those who want to save now and in the future. It is against the nation's interest that vindictive legislation of this kind should be allowed to go on the statute book. Mr. Julian Ridsdale (Harwich) I am not surprised that the Labour benches are empty for this debate when we are discussing a measure which is both unfair and, to adopt the word used by my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Mitchell), “vindictive” . I think the word “dogmatic” should be applied to this proposal. I represent an area in which there are a great number of elderly people. At a time when we have seen increases in the level of rates and in the price of fuel, food, clothes and shoes, the cost of living has borne heavily upon the people at whom these proposals are aimed. They can hardly afford to eke out a meagre existence. Indeed, many pensioners affected by the proposal are not living but merely existing. Yet the Labour Government, in the name of Socialism and so-called fairness, are hitting at those people and hurting them a great deal. For this reason I am only too pleased to support the amendment. I wish to underline what was said by my hon. Friend the Member for Guildford (Mr. Howell). We do not believe in taxing the weakest members of the community. Could anything be more unfair? We believe in encouraging saving. The present Finance Bill attacks saving, and this is a weakness which plays a great part in the crisis which faces the Government not only in terms of financial standing but in their dealings with the world at large. I am sure that the Chief Secretary agrees that something should be done to encourage saving, yet along come the Government with this vindictive measure as an example of their thinking. This attack on saving can only lead the country to disaster. The proposal represents an attack on the weakest members of the community at a time when inflation is [column 484]rampant. I support the amendment and sincerely hope that it will be carried. Mr. Ian Gow (Eastbourne) I also wish to support the amendment, and I do so for four principal reasons. First, I intensely dislike the whole principle of retrospective legislation. The Finance Act which was passed earlier in the year laid down the rates of tax which were to apply for the current financial year. Therefore, it was reasonable for Her Majesty's subjects so to plan their affairs and arrange their finances on the basis that following that legislation they knew what their tax liabilities were to be. That principle has been flagrantly violated by the present Finance Bill, and it is an evil that will be removed if the Committee accepts this amendment. The tendency to retrospective legislation is apparent not only in this Finance Bill in respect of the rate of investment surcharge but also in the procedure that followed on capital transfer tax. That tax was made retrospective to 26th March and the proposals were not published until the present Session. My second reason for supporting the amendment is that of all categories of people who have suffered most as a result of inflation it is the person with a small savings income. Since he is a retired person and in a different category from others, it is impossible for him by his own efforts to do anything to increase his income—for, by definition, retired people have already carried out their working life. Furthermore, the category of person which we are now considering has already suffered grievously as the result of the collapse on the Stock Exchange. Therefore the very people who are among the most worthy citizens and who have given a lifetime of work are now penalised since they are hardest hit by inflation, and unless the amendment is passed they will be hit even harder. The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer seems to have a guilt complex on this subject since on 12th November he said that the House would recognise [column 485] The phrase “current effort” implied that he recognised that the income to which we are now applying our minds is, in almost every case, the result of past effort, and it is a grievous mistake of the Government to penalise savings. The third reason for supporting the amendment is that the present Parliament has a special duty to protect the most vulnerable at time of inflation. We shall fail to discharge that duty unless we agree to the amendment. Finally, if the figures of £1,000 and £1,500 for those over 65 were right when the Chancellor introduced his Budget on 26th March, surely they now need to be revised upwards significantly by about 12 per cent. to take account of inflation. If the Government thought those figures to be right in March, they are obviously wrong today. For these reasons I hope that we shall press this amendment to a Division. Mr. Giles Shaw (Pudsey) I, too, wish to lay special emphasis on the plight of the elderly retired. The assumption behind any attempt to introduce a surcharge, particularly a tax surcharge, is that it should be primarily on large incomes. At the moment we are discussing incomes from investment. In many cases there will be large incomes from investment, and, in addition, incomes from other sources to sustain the standard of living of those who enjoy an investment income. But, by definition, a tax surcharge is an additional impost to cover exceptional earnings. This fact to some extent is grudgingly acknowledged by the fact that in the clause some extremely modest and inadequate relief is given to those of retirement age. Yet the vast majority of those who are of retirement age and above, or those who will be affected by the clause, will be beneficiaries of pension schemes—some no doubt “top hat” pension schemes—and many may receive income from other sources. The elderly retired who are caught by this surcharge, whose total income is made up of investments which they have gathered during their working lives plus the State pension, are most unfairly hit by this impost. Therefore, I fully subscribe to the view so splendidly expressed by my hon. Friends the Members for Basingstoke (Mr. Mitchell) and Eastbourne (Mr. Gow). [column 486] There is a particular group of persons in my constituency to whom this measure applies fully. The spokesman for that group is now approaching his eightieth year. He build up his investments through saving for retirement when there was no available pension scheme during his employment. There are many retired shopkeepers, retailers and small business men in my constituency. All of them, as has been demonstrated, relied exclusively upon the sales of their businesses and the savings that they accrued during their working lives to live modestly in retirement. The relief of £500 for this group is nothing short of malicious. One of my pensioner constituents has advised me that the proposals in the Budget would leave him with a take-home pay of only 71p for two persons out of the £2.50 increase in the pension which is to come into effect in April. I ask the Chief Secretary to consider, if possible, absolving from this surcharge those of retirement age who have no income whatever from any other source. I expect that he will argue that such a proposal will be far too costly. But this modest amendment to raise the surcharge start-line rate would be some small contribution. Surely the Chief Secretary must agree that a surcharge on the elderly retired is unjust and unrealistic, revising, as it does, their tax rate to about 48 per cent. We on this side of the Committee make a special plea for this group of persons which has been most hard hit by inflation. The very least that we might do for this specific group is to agree some form of indexation to protect them from inflation. But, more important than that, we plead for those who have given a lifetime of service to the community and, as they approach their declining years, seek some respite on the earnings that they have accumulated. It is for savings and to be realistic and human that we wish to press the amendment. Mr. Douglas Crawford (Perth and East Perthshire) I do not intend to pull the heartstrings to the Committee as other hon. Members have done. However, I should like to endorse the amendment proposed by the hon. Member for Guildford (Mr. Howell) and to point out something which may not have occurred to him—namely, that the Bill, as it stands, [column 487]is a positive discrimination against Scotland because we save more per head than the rest of the United Kingdom. If and when the amendment is passed, some of the discrimination against Scotland will be removed. I hope that the Treasury will take note of that point. Dr. Reginald Bennett (Fareham) I endorse what my hon. Friends and the representative of the independence of the North have said about this matter. It is not necessary for me to add epithets and other expressions. I agree in principle with all that has been said. However, I should like to ask the Chief Secretary how much will be taken from these defenceless people by this measure. Mr. Tom King (Bridgwater) I intervene to reinforce the comment made by my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Gow) that inflation has already diminished the real value of the levels at which the surcharge will apply. The knowledge of many hon. Members is that when levels are fixed they remain. No inflation adjustment is built into any of these proposals. Indeed, what was considered to be a fair level a year or two years before, since this policy has become a political football, is palpably becoming extremely unfair. If inflation continues at its present rate, within another year or two years it will be a positive outrage in the knowledge that successive Governments have refused to adjust the allowances to take account of inflation. I recently visited a factory in my constituency. One of the foremen told me about a man who had been regarded as a bit of a freak in his time because he had never indulged himself very much but had been proud that he had saved and not spent his money on the pleasures of this life. That man had continually said to his colleagues “You are all mugs. You will regret it when you retire.” That chap has now been retired for five years. The foreman to whom I spoke met him quite recently. They had a conversation, during which this retired man said “Do you remember what I used to tell you when I was working? I should like to tell you now that I was a real mug. I should have been far better off had I spent my money as fast as I could.” [column 488] I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Guildford (Mr. Howell) that destroying the interest in and the concept of saving is bitterly damaging the whole fabric of our society. The Chief Secretary no doubt has a brief ready to play ping-pong with our arguments in an attempt to keep the Government's end up. No concessions have been made so far. I hope that he will take to heart what I have said. This is a bitterly tragic and distressing situation. I believe that the concessions and the levels that we are fixing, even if they remain at the levels that we are now proposing for more than a year, will, at the present rate of inflation, still be too low. I hope that the Chief Secretary will not play parliamentary football with this matter, but will take to heart the arguments that have been put forward. Mr. John MacGregor (Norfolk, South) I do not wish to repeat the arguments which have already been advanced, with which I most strongly agree. However, I want to bring out certain points because this proposal, about which I feel most strongly, has caused immense bitterness amongst many people to whom I have spoken. The first point that I want to emphasise, which has already been stressed but cannot be repeated enough, is that the people concerned have only modest means. I refer particularly to the over65s, though many of my arguments apply to other groups. The hon. Member for Perth and East Perthshire (Mr. Crawford) need not be so partisan. Speaking as a Scot but representing an English constituency in which there are many Scots, I assure the hon. Gentleman that the savings habit has spread well south the border for a very long time. The people about whom I am concerned have savings of between £15,000 and £30,000. We have heard how easy it is for someone to come into that category. It is not difficult for a person to accumulate £15,000 during a lifetime. Often shopkeepers and the self-employed have no means of accumulating savings other than through the sale of their businesses when they retire at 60 or 65 years of age. These people have been unfairly hit in many ways in this last year, and this is the final blow. [column 489] I repeat, it is easy to get in to this category on retirement. A man may sell his house in a prosperous part of the country to retire to an area like Norfolk where, at least until two years ago, he could buy a new house fairly cheaply. He may have had life policies which matured when he reached 60 or 65 years of age, he may have commited part of his pension, or he may have built up his ordinary savings. The resulting sum comes exactly into the category on which this excessive tax would have to be paid. If these people have equities, they have seen their capital value collapse. If they have put money into fixed interest stocks, they have seen them drop 20 per cent. in value. With perhaps 20 years of life ahead of them, they wonder how their savings will last. They now face a tax of 43 per cent. on the first slice of their income over £1,500 and 48 per cent. after that. Even without this tax their net income does not keep up with inflation levels, and the tax will make the position worse. These people are bitter because they feel themselves particularly ignored by the social contract. They face heavier increases in their spending than groups who are not retired. They have retired to rural areas where they face long journeys for shops and other services. The petrol increases have hit them particularly severely. They are bitter towards wage-earners, many of whom have received three increases ranging from 30 per cent. to 50 per cent. over the past year. They feel bitter about the young, particularly the unmarried, many of whom, with few commitments to families and others, have also received substantial increases and have, therefore, achieved an enormous increase in their discretionary spending power in the past year. They feel bitter about the con trick which has been played on their lifetime habit of saving towards their retirement. We should also consider the effect on their children who, have seen what has happened to their parents, wonder whether it is worth saving. Finally, there is the effect on the economy. When the Government should be encouraging savings and investment, this policy, among others, will achieve exactly the reverse. But the problem goes much deeper. This is the inconsistency in the Bill. In Clause 6 the Government are trying to [column 490]encourage additional investment in the building societies, but his provision is crippling many of the most likely contributors to the building societies. It also affects people's desire to invest in life and insurance policies. Instead of helping the present problems of the insurance industry, this proposal makes things worse. The effect on savings in industry has already been mentioned. This provision goes directly contrary to what we should be trying to achieve in economic policy. It encourages a philosophy of spend, spend, spend. I cannot believe that that makes sense. There are two other arguments against this proposal. In the debates on this Finance Bill, as on the last, we shall hear a great deal about indexation, and I should welcome a prolonged discussion. If we were to index the allowances in this area, we should be talking in the main about £2,400 not £2,000, as the limit at which the higher rate applies. The amendment will at least achieve that purpose for the over 65s. What astonishes me is that the Government have elsewhere accepted the principle of special treatment for these people, as shown in the Chancellor's announcement about the new age allowance to be implemented in the next Finance Bill. So he must have recognised the validity of many of our arguments. The inconsistency of hitting that group much harder this year before giving them extra relief next year is beyond belief. For that reason, among many, I hope that the Government will have second thoughts and will yield to the amendment. Mr. Percy Grieve (Solihull) The action of the Government in seeking to set aside the amendments to the 1974 Finance Act and to reduce to a limit of £1,000 the concession for aged people living on investment incomes will demonstrate what the middle classes now believe—that the Government are waging deliberate war upon them. In March last year I put down a series of Questions to the Chancellor of the Exchequer asking what income would be necessary today to produce after tax the equivalent of a series of incomes in 1939 from £1,000 to £10,000 a year. His answer showed that in March last year one would have needed £64,000 to achieve the equivalent of a 1939 income of £2,000. That figure shows, if anything does, that someone in [column 491]retirement with investment income of £2,000 today is far from rich. I have sent the Treasury a number of letters from constituents about this clause. A large number of people in my constituency have sold their businesses and are living in retirement on the fruits of a lifetime of labour, many of them on incomes of £1,000 to £2,000. Today £2,000 is being earned in many sections of industry; it is not a high income. The clause will hit people who have saved hard. The Government are deliberately seeking to discourage the virtues of thrift and industry by which alone our country will achieve economic recovery. In speech after speech, Treasury Ministers pay lip-service to the need for thrift, saving and investment in industry, but by their actions in this Bill, including many clauses to be debated later, they are discouraging those very qualities. I warn the Government that the patience of the middle classes is nearly at an end. An article in The Times the other day headed “The Anger of the Middle Classes” expressed no more than the truth about the actions of this Government toward the middle classes. These people have also been hit throughout by the fall in the value of stocks and shares. I made a speech in May or June of this year, when the Financial Times Index had fallen to 271, and the Financial Secretary sat on the Front Bench with a grin on his face—[An Hon. Member: “He is not even listening.” ] I dare say he is not, because Treasury Ministers are shutting their ears to the arguments about this vicious attack on saving, investment and those who save and invest. I hope that they may yet have second thoughts and concede the amendment I say “I hope” because But I very much doubt whether they will, because their real motives are to destroy the middle classes and to destroy the economy of this country. Mr. Patrick Mayhew (Royal Tunbridge Wells) I want to support the central point made by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Solihull (Mr. Grieve). I represent a constituency which perhaps has [column 492]an unusually high concentration of people who are now retired. They have been brought up throughout their lives to save, but they now bitterly regret ever having done anything so unworldly. I do not want to belabour the practical or the constituency point. I want to attach it to a point of principle because, as I understand it, the philosophy behind this part of the Bill is the philosophy of social justice. Not many of us may be able to define social justice, but probably all of us would say that we were in favour of it. But social justice, just as is the case in any other form of justice, requires that there shall be justice as between one subject of the Queen and another. Those members of our community who have done the unselfish, the independent and the patriotic thing, who have done the thrifty thing, all their lives, now see themselves penalised, while at the same time they see other members of the community who have done none of these things now becoming the non-contributing beneficiaries of retirement pensions and other welfare benefits to pay for which the savers are being taxed. These people now see themselves not the beneficiaries of social justice but the victims of social injustice. It is partly because the Bill makes no distinction between persons living upon incomes derived from inherited investments, on the one hand, and persons living upon incomes derived from saved investments, on the other, that I believe it essential that the amendment should be accepted. The other reason is the reason of principle to which I have already alluded. I believe the Bill to the fundamentally bad in this particular because it is based upon an unjust principle, and it is on the point of principle just as much as upon the particular point that I shall support the amendment. Mr. William Clark (Croydon, South) I agree with what my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Royal Tunbridge Wells (Mr. Mayhew) has just said. The Minister really is setting taxpayer against taxpayer in this regard. We can talk about inflation and about people drawing welfare benefits, the old-age pension, and so on, but in this regard what we must examine is the positions of, for instance, two people working for different firms. [column 493] It may be that one person is fortunate enough to work for a firm which has a superannuation scheme. That employee, during his working life, may or may not contribute to that scheme, but if he does contribute, successive Governments have given him tax relief on his contributions. When he comes to retire at the age of 65 or 60—I think that the age of 65 is a little mythical—having had his superannuation contributions allowed for tax relief during his working life, he then receives a pension and enjoys what is known as the earned income relief. In any case, he is not subjected to the investment surcharge. In the case of his contemporary who is working for a different firm which, unfortunately does not have a pension scheme, his salary may be adjusted because of the lack of a scheme during his working life. He has not paid superannuation contributions because there was no scheme to join, and he has been paying tax on his slightly higher income during his working life. When he comes to retire, the savings he has made are then clobbered. We are talking about £1,500 a year, but what is that as a pension? It is about £30 a week. When one considers that average industrial earnings are well over £40 a week, one appreciates that we are not talking about anything to assist the rich. It is the small man. I regret very much that the Minister who is responsible for small businesses is not present. He was present earlier. I should have liked him to answer the debate, because the people who are being penalised are particularly those who were not sufficiently fortunate to belong to a superannuation scheme and the self-employed. The self-employed, during their working life, have had to make provision for their old age. The Government are being a little schizophrenic in the Bill. The Chancellor says in Washington, and at any meeting of Finance Ministers anywhere, that in this country we must have investment. But what do the Government do? They clobber investment. They do not encourage it. The Government cannot have it both ways. The Chief Secretary has great expertise in taxation matters. Fortunately, he is one Minister who understands what tax [column 494]is all about. I am sure that he will agree that taxation, to be acceptable, should be equitable. That has been the premise and philosophy of successive Governments. In the example which I gave, of two persons working for different firms, one in a superannuation scheme and the other not, it is not equity at all. This is grossly inequitable. I do not find it funny—as apparently do Ministers on the Government Front Bench. Not all of my constituents are terribly rich. They are thrifty. They have saved money during their working lives. Not all of them have belonged to firms with superannuation schemes or have additional pensions. I ask the Minister to look again at this matter, because the clause is a vicious attack on anyone who shows a sense of independence. Whether or not a person is to have a pension from his firm, why should he not save his money during his working life and augment his old-age pension or whatever pension he may receive at the age of 65? Why should the present Government, or any Government, say “You have been thrifty all your life, but now at your retirement age we shall clobber you and tax you harder than your contemporary” ? That is why I hope that my right hon. and hon. Friends will press the amendment to a Division. Mr. Patrick Cormack (Staffordshire, South-West) It is extraordinary that the present Government should have become the scourge of the saving classes. That is what they have become. Unless the Chief Secretary concedes the amendment, or something very much like it, he will be guilty of gross paradox. We have a Government the Ministers of which will stand at the Dispatch Box time after time saying “We must make sure that our old people are properly catered for within the State system, and we must make sure that pensions take account of inflation and that supplementary benefits do likewise” . The Government also talk of the need for helping underdeveloped countries. Yet the Government, who will do all of that, are at the same time viciously attacking those of their own citizens who, through thrift, foresight and perseverance, have over decades saved their own money for their retirement. It is a most dreadfully paradoxical situation that this sort of Government may be hitting these people. [column 495] It is also rather strange that Socialists who say that they wish to help people to advance themselves should be penalising people who have taken the precautions to make sure that they are not dependent totally upon the State when they retire. I hope that the Chief Secretary, who is a member of the middle classes and has no doubt got savings, who is an accountant and knows how these things work, will bring his personal experience and knowledge to bear. I hope that if he has some form of distorted brief in front of him he will toss it away and talk with a degree of proper knowledge and compassion when he replies to the debate. Hon. Members on the Government side of the House are very fond of the word “compassion” , but it is a sort of selective compassion. It is allowed to apply to only certain sections of society. It is absolutely fatuous that we should allow ourselves to be browbeaten by hon. Members on the Government side of the House into ourselves sometimes adopting an almost guilty stance when we defend capital and inheritance. What is wrong with somebody building up his capital and, through his saving, contributing towards the financial well-being of the country? We need those people at the moment. What is wrong with the ordinary human instinct to try to do a little better for one's children than one has been able to do for oneself and pass on something from the fruits of one's labour, to quote my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Solihull (Mr. Grieve)? I cannot accept that the type of pernicious and vindictive principle that is enshrined within this Bill is truly British, and I hope that we shall vote against it. Of course, I trust that it will not be necessary to vote against it because I hope that this amendment will be accepted. Mr. Dafydd Wigley(Caernarvon) I had no intention of intervening in this debate, but now that I have decided to do so I must say that I do not agree with most of the comments which have emanated from these benches, although there are some with which I do agree. I am not sure whether I follow the hon. Member for Staffordshire, South-West (Mr. Cormack) in that great British tradition to which he referred. [column 496] I am pleased to see that the number of Members on the Labour benches has now risen to double figures, because for much of this debate there have been only five Members on those benches. It is incredible that not one spokesman on the Government benches has so far risen to defend the Government's propositions. Having said that, I find myself probably in greater sympathy with the idea that income should be earned rather than come from investment than are most Members of this side of the Committee, but I ask the Government in all seriousness whether this is the right time to take the measures which they contemplate. People who have saved in order to provide for their retirement, because there were no superannuation schemes available, now find that the value of their savings has been decimated, and some of them may be facing a marginal tax rate of as great as 48 per cent. These people are earning less than £2,000 a year—£40 a week—at a time when the average male industrial worker over 21 is earning about £55 a week, and one must ask whether this is equitable. From the point of view of the timing of these proposals and of fair play to people who have been put into this position, the Government should look again at these proposals. I wish to refer to another aspect—that of capital formation. Everybody seems to be agreed that capital formation is an essential part of the remedy to our economic situation. But there is a real danger, not only in this Bill but because of other things which have happened to the economy in recent months, that those who might be induced to invest money and save may be scared away. If this happens and the fires in this direction are stoked by such moves, I wonder whether the Government have any alternative for increasing the level of capital formation in the economy. I have not heard any positive proposals in that direction. The references to increased levels of savings in building societies do not go far enough to meet this point. Finally, may I ask the Chief Secretary to say how much money, at the latest estimates, the Government expect to get from the change proposed in this clause? I think the answer would be very revealing. Dr. Alan Glyn(Windsor and Maidenhead) The Chief Secretary will agree with one thing, and that is that this country's economy has been to a large extent build up on the small saver and small entrepreneur. If we are to encourage people of that sort, the type of legislation which it is proposed to put through today will have exactly the reverse effect. What is the good of saying to people “We will encourage you to invest in building societies” when at the same time exactly the reverse is being done by this Bill? Is there any real difference between the man who all his life contributes towards a pension scheme and the man who has no alternative, because he is self-employed and has his own business, but to save and invest and then at the end of his life to live on that investment? I cannot see the difference. Coming to my third point, which the hon. Member for Caernarvon (Mr. Wigley) brought out very well, is this the time to penalise savings when we have an extremely high inflation rate and when we ought to be encouraging people to save? This sort of measure is wrong, and in any case it is certainly introduced at the wrong time. Mr. Nigel Lawson(Blaby) I, too, had not intended to speak in this debate but I have been very much struck by the eloquence and cogency of the remarks of my hon. Friends who have made various cases for this amendment, and by the equal eloquence of the total silence from the benches opposite. I agree that certain sedentary noises occur on the benches opposite from time to time, but I would not grace them with the description of eloquence. My first complaint is that this proposal is all of a piece. Everything in this Bill and, indeed, pretty well everything the present Government have been doing, when one thinks of the surcharge—the special tax—on the self-employed, is part and parcel of an attack on independence, self-reliance and individual self-respect. It is an attempt to create a spendthrift society totally dependent on the State and on those who hold temporarily the levers of power in the name of the State. It is also in this context an attack on small savers. [column 498] Before going on to the smallness of the savings which are involved, I ask the Chief Secretary to answer a question which puzzles many of my constituents. They want to know why they should pay a surcharge on investment income at all, when they have worked very hard for the savings which they have accumulated. We are talking about very small sums of money. My hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Mitchell) said that at the current rate of inflation, on undated securities—many people have Consols and War Loan—to be the recipient of the savage increase introduced in this Finance Bill, the saver will have to have saved up on more than £6,000. That is not a large sum. It is nothing like the £20,000 aired by the Chief Secretary and I think also by the Financial Secretary when we debated this matter less than 12 months ago, when the Government then tried to introduce this proposal. Even that yield would not compensate for the rate of inflation. I do not know whether the small savers are meant to be part of the social contract but one assumes that they are because we are told from time to time that everybody is. The trade unions regard as part of the social contract the necessity for their members' incomes to keep level with the rate of inflation. The small saver's income cannot possibly keep pace with the rate of inflation. But at least he may hope that the value of his small capital will keep pace with the rate of inflation. To do that he will need to have a yield of 21 or 22 per cent. which would mean that we are talking about a capital of only £4,000 being affected by this proposal. Indeed, the capital would be much smaller if one took into account the rate of taxation, because the yield needed to cover both the rate of inflation and the rate of taxation is so high that it does not bear thinking about. There is a more important social contract than the mythical social contract which the Government talk about, and that is the contract to keep faith with the people over the value of money and the value of people's savings. That is a difficult thing to do. Inflation is a problem which is puzzling and baffling many countries. But to make the situation infinitely worse, in particular for those most vulnerable, is unforgivable and the [column 499]grossest breach imaginable of the social contract. I wish to reiterate one point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Gow). This is true retrospective legislation, but we have come to expect that from the Government. It was contained in their last Finance Bill on several occasions, and no doubt on examination the same will be seen to be the case in this Bill. It certainly applies on the point we are discussing. It would have been fair enough constitutionally if the Government had said “We fought the election on the basis of clobbering savings, the small saver, the self-reliant and independent, and on the basis of destroying the middle classes. Having got our mandate to do that, we will introduce new taxes to give effect to our plans.” But what we have here is far worse. This provision is being introduced five-sixths of the way through the fiscal year and will apply retrospectively. By the time the Bill gets the Royal Assent the retrospection will be that much more acute. There must be serious doubt whether the Bill will receive the Royal Assent in due time—— Mr. Cormack There may be another Budget. Mr. Lawson My hon. Friend may indeed be correct. We are already having great difficulties with the continuous performance of one Finance Bill coming along before another has been enshrined on the statute book. This subject, along with many other aspects of the Bill, raises the question of indexation. The Opposition have tabled the amendment in an attempt to improve the past situation and to take account of the fall in the value of money, which is a sort of rough and ready indexation. We must, however, look seriously at the whole question of indexation. I hope that we shall look at it more wisely and more responsibly than the Chief Secretary did when the matter came up for discussion during proceedings on a previous Finance Bill when he was tackled on the subject of indexation, tax brackets, tax reliefs and so on. As time passes, smaller and smaller savers are being caught. The trouble occurs lower and lower down the scale. Because certain indirect taxes are not of an [column 500]an valorem nature, there is a huge shift of the burden from indirect to direct taxation without any parliamentary sanction or control in the public interest. When indexation was raised on that occasion, the Chief Secretary said We are grateful to the hon. Member for his assurance about the long-distant future, but Keynes said that in the long-distant future we should be dead. If something is not done for the long-distant future, there will be a much more serious economic crisis and catastrophe than even the present Government have been able to devise. It is, therefore, not good enough for the Chief Secretary to say—and I am sure he has no crystal ball to help him—that there will be no inflation in the long-distant future and in that way justify his rejection of indexation. The right hon. Gentleman went on to say I would have thought that it was elementary justice that the levels of tax whole groups of people should pay should be decided in advance. It is manifestly unjust that people do not know what the effective rate of tax will be on their earnings, and they cannot since no one knows what the rate of inflation will be from one month to the next. This creates total uncertainty. If the Chancellor thinks that this will help him to plan his economy, not that we have seen much sign that it has helped him to succeed so far in dealing with the country's problems, he is thinking manifest nonsense, unless he knows for sure what the rate of inflation will be. He told us before that it was 8.4 per cent., but that did not turn out to be accurate, and I doubt whether he would like to hazard a confident forecast on the rate of inflation over the next 12 months. Under the present system the Chancellor does not know what the tax yields will be, but he would have a better knowledge of the effect of his measures if [column 501]there was indexation. The truth is that he has a vested interest in getting additional revenue by the back door and in occasionally handing out phoney cuts—they are phoney because they only restore the status quo—from time to time to certain groups of people. The amendment seeks to provide for one group, the small saver with an investment income of £1,000 or £2,000, no more than justice and no less than justice. Of course, some people who are better off might benefit, but it is a poor philosophy to say, that because that might happen the small savers who are totally deserving should not be allowed to benefit at all. Mr. Norman Lamont (Kingston-upon-Thames) One of the most remarkable things that was said by the Chief Secretary in the speech from which my hon. Friend has quoted was that he was not happy about the present distribution of income. He implied that he was looking to inflation to redistribute income and that he preferred that it should be done by inflation rather than by Parliament. Mr. Lawson My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Lamont) is absolutely right. I am afraid that the truth is that some of the Labour Members—I hope not all of them but certainly the Chief Secretary—relish inflation. We believe that there are people who must be helped, and that is the aim of the amendment. That is why I hope that it will be accepted by the Government, or, if it is not accepted by the Government, that it will be carried by the House. But it may be said that this will cost £40 million, and people may ask “How will you find that?” We have no difficulty. First, I trust that later this evening we shall eliminate the £10 hand-out to trades unions which unnecessarily subjected their members' funds to the levy of that amount. That would leave £30 million—— Mr. Cormack Food subsidies can be cut. Mr. Lawson As my hon. Friend says, a modest cut in food subsidies would enable justice to be achieved. I hope that the Chief Secretary will accept the amendment. If he does not, I hope that the Committee will pass it. Mr. Peter Rees (Dover and Deal) First, I must apologise to the Committee for not having heard the whole debate. I gather, however that no case—not even an ineffective case from a sitting position by the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Mr. Kerr) who is now leaving the Chamber—has been put either for the clause or against the amendment. With the clause the Labour Party is pursuing its paranoiac obsession with what it would choose to call capital and investment income, and what I would call savings and savings income. So be it, but let the country recognise the quality of government we have at this crisis in our nation's affairs. Most classes of our community have been hit by inflation. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has told us that we must all accept a diminution in our living standards. Whether the more powerful sections of organised labour have accepted that remains to be seen. But at least those of our community who are still in gainful occupations have the possibility of cushioning themselves to a degree against this shock and have the possibility of climbing back to their present position after we have passed through the crisis. However, there is one class which will be affected by the clause and which may be cushioned, to a degree, by the amendment. I refer to those who have retired with a small sum saved with which they have calculated they can spend a dignified and comfortable old age. Many of them were, perhaps, in occupations in which there was no pension provision, or inadequate provision. The company pension is a comparatively recent phenomenon, unfortunately. The self-employed were unable to obtain any tax relief for sums put aside for pensions before 1956. They will be hit particularly by the mean-spirited measure embodied in the clause. It seems to me, as it must seem to many of my right hon. and hon. Friends, that the self-employed in particular have been singled out as sacrificial lambs to appease organised labour and the extreme Left wing. They are people whom I and my right hon. and hon. Friends meet in our constituencies—— Mr. Cormack We are proud to represent them. Mr. Rees Indeed, because they are people who have given their best, sometimes in public positions after a lifetime in their own occupations and businesses. We are entitled to ask the Government to have some regard for them and to recall that they have made their calculations for retirement. They may have a modest car and a modest house. They have budgeted for a modest standard of living. The incomes of people likely to be affected by the clause are not enormous by present standards. In weekly terms, though the Government always prefer to translate these figures into annual terms, their incomes may not be more than £40–£60 a week gross. I challenge the Chief Secretary to say whether he regards that as excessive. They have faced a diminution not only in their capital but in their standard of living. They have probably seen their capital not halved but quartered. They have seen their standard of living cut by the increases in the price of petrol. Many of them depend on their cars, particularly if they live in the country districts in my constituency, where there may be no bus service to take them to do their shopping in Deal, Dover or Canterbury. Mr. David Mitchell Does my hon. and learned Friend realise that in spite of the importance of the subject to the widows, the elderly, the retired and small business men, not a single Member is present on the Government back benches? It is disgraceful. Mr. Rees I am grateful to my hon. Friend for re-emphasing the point I made at the start of my speech. The country may recognise that that shows the depth of concern on the Government benches for the people whose interests we have at heart and which we are trying to ventilate in the debate. I am not often sorry for the Chief Secretary, but I am sorry for him on this occasion, because on his narrow shoulders he carries a great burden. He has to make a strong case. He alone must carry in this debate the burden of defending what I have described, and will continue to describe, as a very mean clause, and for rejecting a modest mea[column 504]sure of relief. I hope that this fact will be noted outside the House. The class about which we are particularly concerned face a considerable diminution in their capital and standard of living because of petrol costs, their rates and the cost of their food, coal and fuel oil. Those of us who—dare we say it?—are in the prime of life may live through this crisis. We may climb back to the position we were in before March 1974. We may be able to resume the march of progress, to catch up with our former expectations. But the people of whom I am speaking will not be able to do that. We must be particularly tender of their interests. I have not seen a glimmer of understanding or sympathy from the Government benches, but I hope that the Chief Secretary, who I believe has listened to the debate, even though he has been carrying on an intermittent conversation with his hon. Friends on either side of him—he may be looking to them for a little moral support that he is not receiving from behind him—will rise above the obsession of his party and acknowledge that the amendment provides a small but distinct measure of justice to a hardly-used group of our community. Mr. John Loveridge (Upminster) Some of us sympathise with the Minister, because he has to raise so much money to pay for the Government's programmes. We know that under a Labour Government taxes always have to rise. The clause seems to be particularly mean, because it singles out for the imposition of additional tax older people who have saved during their lifetime. Many people who have run, for example, a small grocery business and have sold it for £6,000 or £8,000 to live on the investment will find that their lifetime's savings are so heavily taxed that they will be little better off than their neighbours who have been improvident and have not saved. Their hardships will have been worth nothing. In my constituency there is a group or old people's flatlets where there is strong resentment between some of the old people and their neighbours. Those who have small savings say “We lose our social security benefits. We are hardly any better off than our next-door neighbour. Why should we have done without [column 505]all our lives, why should we have worked so hard? We advise our children” —this is what has been said to me— “to take the easy course—namely, not to study, not to work hard and not to save. We tell them that there is little benefit in it when you become old.” Sir John Hall (Wycombe) Does my hon. Friend agree that the Chancellor has added great weight to that advice by saying that he never saves and that if he has any money he always spends it? Mr. Loveridge Yes, the Chancellor's comment adds great weight to the point that I was trying to make. I hope that the Chief Secretary will reconsider this matter. He must know of elderly people who are in the position that we have described. He must have them in his constituency. They must come to him and attend his advice bureaux. They are people who deserve consideration. The small relief that is offered depends upon the age at which one happens to have chosen to acquire a wife. That is rather a peculiar incidence to choose and scarcely offers much relief in any case. Let the Chief Secretary take this matter back. Let him think about it again. We ask for some concession for the old who have saved. They need encouragement, but, above all, the next generation needs encouragement to work hard. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Joel Barnett) I have listened to the whole of the debate and I have found it interesting. I have been described as mean, savage—— Mr. Kenneth Lewis (Rutland and Stamford) There are not many of the Minister's Friends sitting behind him, anyway. Mr. Barnett I cannot blame them for that. I have been described as mean, savage, inhuman, vindictive, evil, vicious, schizophrenic and un-British. I hardly recognise myself. [Hon. Members: “We do.” ] I am delighted to hear that. Sir John Hall rose—— Mr. Barnett Not now. I shall give way later. The amendments that we are discussing seek to reverse what we are seeking to do in the clause, namely, to bring back the threshold for investment [column 506]income from £2,000 to £1,000. The second amendment seeks to add another £500 for those over 65 years. I was asked for the cost in a full year. The implementation of the two amendments would extinguish a yield of £40 million and turn it into a loss, in a full year, of £53 million. Perhaps I should say a little about the background, as did the hon. Member for Guildford (Mr. Howell). The background goes back to the time of unification in 1973–74 when we thought that the then Conservative Chancellor had been far too generous in the relief that he gave to those with investment income. We are now seeking not to remove anywhere near the whole of the reliefs that were then given. For a true comparison we must consider not only the effect of the clause in 1974–75 compared with 1973–74, but the comparison with pre-unification figures before the enormous amount of relief was given by the then Chancellor. If we take that comparison a single person with an income of £5,000 wholly from investments paid £500 less tax for 1973–74 than for 1972–73. Under the combined effect of the spring Budget and the current proposal such a person's liability will increase by £222, still leaving him with a gain of £278 compared with 1972–73. There are many more examples of that kind. The comparison is the clear one between what the situation was before such substantial relief was given to those often with substantial investment income and what we are now seeking to do. Mr. Lawson Will the Chief Secretary concede that if this hypothetical individual had a constant income—namely, the same income now as in 1972-73—the drop in the real value would be considerably greater than the gain which the right hon. Gentleman is alleging has occurred? Mr. Barnett I was going to come to the question of the drop in real income. I now turn to a number of points that have been made on a number of occasions by a variety of Conservative Members in a variety of ways. Mr. David Howell rose—— Mr. Barnett I have not come to them yet. Mr. Howell The Chief Secretary spoke of the background of this issue. He is now slipping with agility over the propriety of the Government's overturning retrospectively the clear decision of a previous Government. This is a most unusual departure, to put it at its lowest, and we deserve some comment on it before the right hon. Gentleman goes on to other matters. Mr. Barnett I have listened to every Conservative Member who has spoken an I have just started my reply. I had every intention of referring to the retrospective argument. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not imagine—but apparently he did—that I would not comment on that issue. I had no intention of not replying to every point in the debate. Much has been made about what we are doing in the clause that we are discussing. It is said that we are taxing savings income. It seems that it is only savings income that we are taxing. Perhaps some Conservative Members will accept that not all of it will be savings income. There is just a possibility that some of it will be investment income from other sources. I leave it at that. I take it no further. Another point that has been made frequently is that it is wrong to have an investment income surcharge. That was a point that was made by a number of Conservative Members. I must point out to them that the last Conservative Government, when introducing unification, did not take that view. As far as I know it is not now the view of the Conservative Front Bench. If it is, I shall be interested to hear that there has been a change of mind. The amendments seek to change the investment income surcharge as between the £1,000 threshold and the £2,000 threshold. That is what we are talking about. We have reduced the 15 per cent. to 10 per cent. That is a maximum of £100 per person. We are not talking about an investment income surcharge. That is not the issue. I hope that we shall not hear anything about clobbering all savings incomes. I now turn to the effect of the main part of the amendment. The first £1,000 of investment income will obtain relief that was not available before unification. [column 508]That was when a higher rate than the earned income rate was payable. It has been said that it represents a saving of about £6,000. Of course, it could be about £6,000 if it were invested in a certain way. If it were invested in another way it could be less than that or substantially more. Much depends upon the manner of investment. If the investment were in equities of a certain type the amount could be considerably larger. I am sure that that is appreciated. It is £6,000 or more. Mr. Lawson Or less. Mr. Barnett I am not arguing about the size of the figure. There need not be any investment. The money might be put underneath a person's bed. Perhaps that is where the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Lawson) would prefer to put his money. I know that it is difficult for Conservative Members to understand that even £6,000 is a lot of money to the majority of ordinary working people. It is a lot of money. Many working people would love to be able to save £6,000. The hon. Gentleman should ask that question of postmen, railwaymen and the vast array of working people. It gives un an idea of the way the Opposition think, if they find it hard to understand that a working man today is unable to save £6,000 after a lifetime. Under the amendment we are talking not only about a man who has saved £6,000 throughout his lifetime but about a man with investment income who has only just started to work, or who may never have worked. We are not talking only about men aged 65 and over. Indeed, that is not the purport of the main amendment. Mr. David Mitchell Is the Minister aware, when he refers to the enormous sums saved as being outside the scope and ability of ordinary working men to save, that it represents no more than the saving of £2.50 a week. If that is not what he condemns as being outside the scope of the ordinary working man, he is not in the realm of reality. Mr. Barnett I was not condemning saving. I think it is marvellous. However, how is a man earning £25 a week, who has a wife and two children to support, to have the chance of saving £2.50 a week? Opposition Members must listen. [column 509]I listened to every speech made by them. They should do me the courtesy of listening to what I say. I said that many working people will not be able to save £6,000 by the end of their life. However, we are not talking about the end of their life—we are talking about possibly the beginning of their working life, or even before it starts. Let us be clear what we are talking about. Given the priorities before us, a concession, in post-unification terms, of £1,000 of investment income being taxed as earned income, is not an unreasonable figure. However, we have recognised a higher figure for those who have saved money throughout their working lives, because we have specified a higher figure for people over the age of 65. The figure of £1,500 is 50 per cent. higher than the figure of £1,000. With that, and with the other relief we have given to the elderly with earned incomes of up to £3,000 a year, we have helped them very substantially. I think that is way to go about it. The Opposition made a lot of the question of inflation. I make it clear that inflation and what has happened on the Stock Exchange have harmed many people. Of course one understands that. In deciding whether we should give £53 million of tax relief to a certain group of people, we have to say whether they should be given the concession because of the inflation which has occurred over the past nine months. We are arguing whether that group should be singled out to be protected against inflation. Mr. Grieve The right hon. Gentleman used the expression which one always finds on the lips of Treasury Ministers— “Why should we give something?” We do not ask them to give anything, but to refrain from talking away. Mr. Barnett I shall be coming to that. The hon. and learned Gentleman will be happy to know that whether we are giving it or taking it away it will certainly reduce the amount of money available to the Exchequer. Mr. Peter Rost (Derbyshire, South-East) A good thing, too. Mr. Barnett I shall be coming to that as well. The argument about retrospection was raised by a number of hon. [column 510]Gentlemen, starting with the hon. Member for Guildford. Let me make it clear that this is a new Parliament. There is nothing unusual in introducing a tax, during the tax year, in a new Parliament. The fact that the proposal was defeated in the previous Parliament—because the composition of the House was such that it did not carry sensible legislation introduced by the then Government—is not my fault. I am now concerned with the legislation that we are introducing in this Parliament. It is not use saying that this is retrospective, that it is a terrible thing—as if it has never happened before—and that there are no precedents. There are many precedents. Mr. Lawson Quote some. Mr. Barnett I shall do that, with pleasure. In December 1973 the Conservative Government announced a surcharge which the Labour Government took over eventually in the Spring Budget of 1974 from the then Government, who would have introduced it. It was announced in December 1973 and introduced in the Spring Budget of 1974. That was retrospective legislation, to which, I hasten to add, I did not object. Mr. Lawson I thought that the Chief Secretary would quote that example. There is an important difference. That proposal did not reach back to the period of the previous Parliament, whereas this one does. That was also a one-year-only measure. If the Chief Secretary is drawing a parallel, will he assure us that what he is proposing to do in this clause is in fact for one year only? Mr. Barnett I might be prepared to give assurances, but not to the hon. Gentleman, and certainly not on that subject. The proposal will have retrospective effect. In a Written Answer in July, during the last Parliament, I said this would be done. I now turn to those who will be the beneficiaries of the £53 million. The hon. Member fir Caernarvon (Mr. Wigley), who raised the matter, said that he spoke with an open mind, although it was not clear at the end of his speech that that was the state of his mind. I know his views on these matters. As regards the beneficiaries, we have had many descriptions of the type of people who would benefit from the £53 million [column 511]—the modest savers, the elderly, the small business men, men of modest means, and those kinds of people. First, let me deal with the £40 million which is the basis of the main amendment. Seventy-five per cent. of the £40 million, amounting to £30 million, will go to those with incomes of over £3,000 a year before tax. Before any hon. Member jumps up to tell me that that is not an enormous figure, let me say that I entirely agree with him. Of course it is not enormous. I am pointing only to the beneficiaries who will receive far and away the greater part of the £40 million. Indeed, £17 million of that sum will go to those with incomes of over £5,000 a year. Those are the kinds of priorities that hon. Gentlemen seem to prefer in their amendments. I must tell them that that is not my priority and I doubt whether it is the priority of many of my hon. Friends. Many of the people with such amount of investment income, and who would benefit from this relief, are not wealthy. They are hard-working people. many of them resemble the kind of person spoken about by the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Mitchell)—small business men who have worked hard throughout their working lives in small shops, and so on. I do not dispute that. That is the case. However, given the economic climate, the Committee must consider whether this is the way in which the priorities should work and the way we should seek to spend £40 million. That is the issue before us—not whether all these people are worthy. Of course many of them are worthy. I do not dispute that. However, that is not the issue. Mr. Mayhew The hon. Gentleman says that this is how we should spend £40 million. That is a misleading way of putting it. The question is not whether we should spend £40 million but whether we propose to take £40 million away from those people. It is in that context that we have to look at the circumstances in which those people have amassed the capital producing the investment. Mr. Barnett I grant the hon. and learned Gentleman that we could really give back the whole of our tax receipts if we wanted to. It is taxpayers' money, after all. However, that argument is not worthy of the hon. and learned Gentleman. One or two hon. Members touched upon the financial and economic situation and expressed their alarm at the size of our public sector borrowing requirement and the size of our deficit. However, these two amendments would add to the borrowing requirement to the tune of £53 million. I come directly to how they would offset that sum. We are told that the way to offset the £53 million it to cut public expenditure. I can understand that, and I could accept it from many people. But it is a suggestion which comes strangely from the Opposition. On agriculture, for example, the Opposition would seek a considerably higher level of support. On housing, the right hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) would seek to reduce the mortgage interest rate to 9½ per cent. and to introduce a home saving grant scheme at a cost of £300 million. On law and order, the Opposition have pressed for priority to be given to increasing police manpower, to improved pensions, to a big city allowance, to rewards for long service and to increased expenditure on recruitment. On education, the Conservative Party manifesto said that the party wanted to make all student grants mandatory, at a cost of £200 million, and to reduce parental contributions, costing £30 million. Those aims are all very fine, but they are not exactly ways of cutting public expenditure. As for social security, nothing could be more dishonest than what is happening at present upstairs in Committee, where the Opposition are voting for amendments which would cost very large sums of money. They are opposed to reducing defence expenditure by £300 million in 1975-76 and by £750 million in 1978-79. However, they would offset the £53 million addition to the public sector borrowing requirement resulting from these amendments by cutting public expenditure. I [column 513]shall believe that when I hear some serious arguments. We have had none. Mr. Lawson What about food subsidies? Mr. Barnett That is very interesting. The Opposition would rather give £30 million to those with incomes of more than £3,000 a year, and they would increase the price of bread to do it. If that is the policy of the Opposition, with which the hon. Member for Caernarvon agrees, I am extremely surprised. Mr. Ioan Evans (Aberdare) My right hon. Friend has given the Committee a catalogue of the additional public expenditure suggested by the Opposition. However, they also want to increase defence expenditure and to abolish the rating system by putting the cost on to the National Exchequer. Mr. Barnett I was trying to save a little time. I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me if I do not mention all the items on which the Opposittion wish to increase public expenditure. It must be clear that this cannot be the way to increase the public sector borrowing requirement by £53 million. There may be other ways, but this cannot be the one, and therefore I ask my right hon. and hon. Friends—— Mr. Wigley Those of us who advocate not hitting people who are dependent on investment income and who are in the lower scales, albeit that they will only get a fraction of the money proposed to be spent on these amendments, would not suggest that it be taken from food subsidies. We would propose cutting defence expenditure even further. But, in any event does the right hon. Gentleman believe that this package in total will help increase or decreases capital formation in the economy? Mr. Barnett I was about to conclude my remarks. This is an enormous question, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I do not deal with it in detail. I accept that he does not want to take the money from food subsidies and that he would prefer to take it from defence expenditure. However, that is not the view of the Conservative Party—— Mrs. Kellett-Bowman Answer. Mr. Barnett I have answered the hon. Gentleman, and I believe that I have replied reasonably fully to the debate. I listened carefully to all the speeches. I hope that I shall be forgiven for saying that these amendments have no justification. If the Opposition divide the Committee, I urge my right hon. and hon. Friends to vote against the amendments. Mrs. Margaret Thatcher (Finchley) Seldom have I listened to a more unsatisfactory reply to a debate, and seldom have I heard one which angered me more. First, cannot we get it across to Joel Barnettthe Chief Secretary that he is taking away £40 million from these people by his action and not giving it to them? He argues about the public sector borrowing requirement. We had the same argument all through our debates on the last Finance Bill, in the course of which Government spokesmen gave the impression that every amendment would add to the borrowing requirement, which was then about £3,000 million. No one revealed at that time that it must have been greatly in excess of £3,000 million. We cannot suddenly have had an additional £3,000 million added between July and November when Denis Healeythe Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that it was £6,000 million. No one using that argument to such bad effect then has the right ever to be believed about it again. Secondly, I return to the argument about retrospection. This is the most savage form of retrospection that I have ever encountered. The precedent which the Chief Secretary gave for it is not precedent at all. I cannot find a precedent, and clearly the right hon. Gentleman has not been able to find one. Let us consider what has happened. In the last Finance Bill the then Government attempted to fix the rate of tax applicable to these people for this year. That subject was fully and exhaustively debated in this House. It was decided upon, and these people then thought that they knew where they were for their tax this year, and that they could budget. Many of them are used to budgeting. They would not have saved what they have if they had not been. They knew where they were, and they could make their budgets accordingly. [column 515] There is no precedent that I have been able to find for, within six months of a decision, another Government's saying, in respect of the same tax and the same year, “We intend to put it up. We shall make you pay £40 million more than you budgeted for.” I ask right hon. and hon. Members to consider the time at which the Chief Secretary proposes to exact that additional £40 million. It was in a Budget which put up local rates. My hon. Friends the Members for Bridgwater (Mr. King) and Norfolk, South (Mr. MacGregor) joined me many time in pointing out the greatly increased rates which people in rural areas had to pay. Many of the people whom we are discussing at the moment live in rural areas. Not only have they to pay additional tax; they have also to pay additional rates, and I have received many letters saying that money that had been put aside for additional rates would now have to be used to pay more tax. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is often very fortunate in the reasonable cooperation that he gets from the Opposition on reasonable economic matters. However, he must understand that this proposal was also in a Budget which increased the rates for gas, electricity and postal charges, because it was necessary to reduce the nationalised industry deficit. The proposal comes at the very time when people are suffering from inflation, which is a bad enough tax on its own, and many have no thresholds, full or partial, to make it up. They are suffering from a new policy to eliminate nationalised industry deficits. It is at this time that the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposes an additional tax, although this House has already said, this year, that it shall not do so. Undoubtedly, it is constitutionally technically correct, otherwise we should not be discussing it. I can only say that it is constitutionally amoral, and had it been put to me as a Minister I would not have done it, this House having already decided. The argument that it is technically correct shows that hon. Gentlemen opposite have no argument whatever to suggest. Do they believe that people who have to pay extra rates and extra electricity charges, and who have budgeted not to pay this extra, will be as technical as hon. Gen[column 516]tlemen opposite? Those people will have to pay this out of their pockets. The Chief Secretary argues that there will be extra relief, but many people who are adversely affected by the clause will not get extra relief. Even that argument is not valid, for they will have to wait till next year for the extra relief, although the extra taxation penalty comes this year and is in respect of this year. Mr. Joel Barnett But payable next year. Mrs. Thatcher It is in respect of tax this year, even though it does not have to be paid until next year. The Chief Secretary knows that. But there are many people who will never get an age relief who are adversely affected, and particularly badly affected, by this clause. All the disabled who are under 65 will now have their income subject to an extra surcharge if it exceeds their savings income when it is more than £20 per week. All who have had to retire prematurely, or who have been made redundant—widows, deserted wives and others—and who have a savings income of £20 per week in those categories and are under 65 will stand to pay 43 per cent. taxation at the twenty-first pound—and there is no sympathy from the Chief Secretary for those people. We would wish to show them good will and sympathy. Many time from the Dispatch Box I have seen Treasury Ministers in difficulties when asked to give some extra relief which, apart from a tiny one, we are not asking now; and frequently they have said, “I would like to do this. I recognise that there is inflation and that some people are in difficulty, but I cannot.” That is not the position now. The Chief Secretary is being asked not to give extra relief of any significance but to leave things where they are and to stop imposing an extra penalty. When he is asked to defend this tax he has no answer when we say that he is clobbering people who have saved all their lives, or whose fathers saved for them and then did an awful thing—handing those savings to their children. It might have been an owner-occupied house whose value was inherited by the children and which probably came from savings income in the first place. [column 517] When we say these people have suffered enough and we ask the Government to help them, the Chief Secretary says, “We intend to make them suffer” . That is his only defence. He says, “We intend to impose an extra penalty” . There is no reason whatever for doing so. He then says he would like savings income, but the Government would prefer savings in the form of Government savings—in taxation—and investment or capital formation in the form of Government investment or capital formation, rather than getting property widely distributed in the hands of the people. As John Pardoea right hon. Gentleman said from the Liberal bench during the debate last year, a society in which savings and investment are carried out through the Government will soon cease to be a free society. This Government hate the wide distribution of private property and dislike people enjoying the fruits of saving income. We certainly shall press this amendment to a Division. I had hoped we should get a good deal more sympathy from the Chief Secretary than we have had. Indeed, we have not had nay at all. If we are not successful with this amendment the Opposition undertake to reverse this clause when returned to power and thereby to keep the present starting point for the imposition of the additional rate of tax on investment income. We shall also consider further relief, together with the wider question of indexing tax levels. I hope that all my hon. and right hon. Friends will show their displeasure with the Chief Secretary's reply and their support for the savers of Britain by voting for the amendment. Mr. John Pardoe (Cornwall, North) Having moved the original amendment on 16th July last, an amendment which has already been referred to, I would like to comment on the Chief Secretary's speech, which I found far less than adequate as a reply to the whole wide-ranging case which has been made on the question of investment income. Although some hon. Members who have spoken from this side of the House have endangered the Conservative Party [column 518]by making it seem to be a middle-class protection society. I have no intention of going along that road, but the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary replied in just such typical class terms and this is not a class debate. This amendment was not about the middle classes last July, nor is it now. The Chief Secretary says we are not discussing savings income but investment income. He distinguishes between the two. It used to be called unearned income. We have moved on a pace and have another euphemism. Now he calls it savings income. It may well be that we ought to distinguish between income from inherited wealth and income from wealth which is savings over the course of a lifetime. That is, no doubt, a debate we shall be able to have in the Select Committee on a wealth tax. There are those who derive their savings not only from private savings under their own auspices during their lifetime but from a bona fide pension fund. I hoped we could persuade the Government, if they will not take a step in our direction on the whole of the amendment, at least to make some concession on that level. I would simply point out to the Chief Secretary that the pension fund of the Association of University Teachers is a pension fund that permits one to take out a lump sum and invest it. The Chief Secretary is saying that anyone who takes out a lump sum will be taxed at an increased rate, whereas the person who leaves it in, drawing it from the pension fund and trustees, will get a lower rate. The Chief Secretary did not even begin to make a justification for investment income as such. They only argument he advanced is one that, as he will realise, does not appeal to me—that the Conservatives did it, too. That is less than an argument. On the question of retrospection the Chief Secretary is perfectly right to say that one Parliament can change what another has done, but in the course of a financial year I would have thought we could at least leave well alone what is done in that one year. It so happens that Parliament in its wisdom—and it was its wisdom—overruled the executive last time. That was a terrible shock to the system and [column 519]the establishment. Parliament had got out of the way of controlling the executive, but because, for once, the electoral system worked to the advantage of the British people and of democracy in February last we were able to control the executive, to change legislation, to change the tax legislation of this place, in line with the wish of Parliament rather than that of the executive, and we did so. The Government now say that have a mandate to change that. They have no such thing. They are denying the sense of the people in this country. But the argument works both ways. When the Leader of the Opposition today tells the Government they have less than 40 per cent. support he really must follow that through. This legislation is being proposed today by the Government and it will be carried because they will probably win the vote. I shall certainly vote against them, but it will be enacted till all who are to pay this increased investment income surcharge realise why. It is because we have a crazy electoral system. If we had the right electoral system we would not have the kind of class legislation and the Left-wing Trotskyite nostrums we get out of the Labour Party. Mr. Gwilym Roberts (Cannock) I am interested in the hon. Gentleman's comments on the electoral system. Would he like to tell me how many Liberal—[Interruption.] The Deputy Chairman Order. The hon. Member was making a passing reference to the electoral system. I am not going to permit any discussion of the electoral system on this amendment. Mr. Pardoe You are absolutely right, Sir Myer. I am glad that the Leader of the Opposition is now here. All I was pointing out was, that with an intelligent electoral system we would not have a Marxist dominated Labour Government and we should be able to secure our way today. The Chief Secretary referred to the borrowing requirement and said that the Government were all in favour of increasing public expenditure. I remind [column 520]the right hon. Gentleman that in the debate on 16th July he referred to the Opposition's determination to spend money and to our determination to reduce taxes by an extra £300 million on advance corporation tax. It is within the memory of many right hon. and hon. Members that the Chancellor of the exchequer thundered in the Chamber about the Opposition's right to overturn the Government's Budget judgment. I am glad that the right hon. Member for Carshalton (Mr. Carr) is here. What a pity it was that all of us did not have the courage of our convictions on that day and stand firm on the parliamentary control of the executive, because then many British companies would not be in the mess they are in now and the Government would not have had to eat their words as they have had to since then. So let us not have any nonsense from the Government about increasing the borrowing requirement. We are talking about a cost of £53 million. It is the Government who are changing the situation, not the Opposition. We changed it last time and we got our way. These people are not wealthy. They do not have to be asked to pay for the social contract, which is really the argument behind the Government's whole case. These are not people who should pay for the social contract. It priorities are to be put forward as to the use of this money, let me try a priority on the financial sector. It may well be that there are people in this country more deserving of concessions than some of the people who would benefit from this concession, but does the hon. Gentleman really believe that the 614 under-secretaries in Whitehall are more deserving of an increase of £3,000 a year than are the people who would benefit if we were able to carry this amendment today? If we are to deal in the language of priorities, anybody can quote his own. I am merely saying to the Chief Secretary that it does not seem to me that he has made his case. I ask the Government to leave well alone. It was a good day for Parliament when we carried that amendment on 16th July, and we should be allowed to keep it that way. [column 521] Question put, That the amendment be made:— [column 522] The Committee divided: Ayes 256, Noes 267. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mr david howell guildford beg page line leave end line insert discuss link amendment page line leave insert chairman convenience committee mr howell story amendment familiar member committee follow aspect worth go story shoddy story like committee night july amendment move believe hon member cornwall north mr pardoe carry desultory debate vote amendment reject proposal minority government change threshold investment income surcharge desultory debate significant contain chilling phrase chief secretary regard people concern affect amendment talk elderly people necessarily retire get save live saving investment income considerably low average wage britain today low priority bring home hon friend column committee exactly view chief secretary colleague priority view kind people believe need help house parliament time reject proposal government november general election chancellor exchequer come forward announce wish reverse matter original proposal march year intend retrospectively course way offer argument hon member turn chancellor budget statement november say chancellor admit frankly agree sentiment chancellor propose possible argue government elect october wish attack elderly couple live sum average weekly wage country right believe doctrine mandate suppose argument kind produce government right legislate past overturn clear decision previous parliament matter regard unpleasant piece political horse trading shall oppose amendment thing restore position march year secondly little propose additional concession retire people extra attract cent emphasise date march talk income column investment saving end financial year money largely spend spending flow deal march year position figure need radical adjustment mrs elaine kellettbowman lancaster apply severely injure accident live income damage mr howell hon friend right come number category government unwise continue shady practice insist new proposal bill shall come amendment deal specific category cover sort situation deal situation oppose march need substantial adjustment figure leave people position march fall cent purchasing power pound shall doubt debate question monetary correction indexing debate standing committee occasion simply try prevent nasty piece retrospective injustice doubt chief secretary brief familiar argument maybe lucky new one deal difficult want stick chancellor proposal carry retrospective measure shall tell help people investment income year terrible flimsy excuse hurt thousand direct discouragement save secondly hear change repetitious argument july right worry age allowance mention chancellor budget statement right people pay year column concern talk happen year begin april nearly hope shall fob divert treasury bench argument right future concerned happen happen proposal government sleeve spring finance bill objection proposal cost money treasury estimate summer cost million presumably need revise hesitation say money find change come cut government spending cut government presumably prepare shall hear course emergency package come forward passage bill right hon friend support measure encourage save investment shall oppose measure hostile save investment believe shall follow chancellor injunction nation switch consumption provide saving essential objective finance investment consume relation produce aside save finance tomorrow investment difference unlike chancellor chief secretary content speech duck wait mud fly left wing want deplore measure retrospection shall part bill enact government war saving heart believe idea private saving wish encourage speech chancellor need save switch resource consumption certain bet measure contain bill bill government present column sphere continue war private saving hon friend member lancaster mrs kellettbowman mention category people hit shall refer category course disabled possibly million work time widow child pensioner purchase annuity lump sum find annuity come taxfree suffer impost category category chancellor think help concession hint able measure june divorce people child say investment income free surcharge maintenance income real life maintenance come follow penalty answer present proposal government believe penalty divorced person try live investment income region maintenance come qualify relief hon friend doubt raise category story tell kind people hit nasty little measure business concession chancellor left wing labour party obviously right hon gentleman problem try settle account see piece political horsetrading victim thousand people deserve treat way say people escape previous chancellor measure quick dead shall learn future debate amendment dead escape provision finance bill quick quick spending rid saving avoid pay penalty escape provision bill column exact opposite need national point view increase saving increase spend provision seek amend previous state attempt legislate period government power minority government admittedly labour government different situation different parliamentary support measure try legislate period utterly hostile private saving seek press amendment restore previous position commend committee mr david mitchell basingstoke clause apply extra tax income investment exceed approximately week income investment exceed approximately week clause unfair vindictive national interest hope amendment support vigorously hon right hon friend clause unfair business executive company pension retire civil servant civil service pension retired member armed force bank manager superannuation scheme able income supplementary state pension incur investment surcharge person work overseas bring lump sum invest clobber small business man small factory workshop market gardener small shopkeeper sell business retire live income sale business clobber glad undersecretary state industry responsible small business sit government bench hope seek justify clause powerful unfair attack small shopkeeper like clause apply people work life plough saving business column rate inflation small business rapacious consumer fund business worth stock shelf year cent rate inflation need worth stock shelf year number tin bottle countless small business draw proprietor saving form extra work capital go proprietor money aside pension superannuation benefit sell business clobber capital gain tax hope able live leave come chamber cast mind couple example hon member remember jimmy jones milkman crooked lane city place go replace pub bank jimmy jones wife work business milk round city morning lunchtime clientele consist bank clerk shop manager city cleaner good baked jam roll obtainable city day mrs jones cook kitchen sweat pour early morning late night jimmy jones retire live saving work hard capital invest enable live reasonable comfort old age typical example people pick chancellor unfair treatment think shopkeeper basingstoke expand town council compulsorily purchase business shopkeeper old able start afresh compensation money represent saving clobber unfair wellpaid bank manager clobber retire small business man clobber government think provision ground fairness clause vindictive unwarranted attack save work life column people wealthy let look capital sum sort income deal invest saving consol government relief start person modest amendment person able receive investment start pay surcharge let investment commercial industrial preferred index usual investment seek safeguard old age government relief start person minuscule amount amendment apply investment retire person cost average bedroome house point people clobber clause allshare index find amount person government seek allow relief allshare index modest amendment mean investment start pay surcharge clobber man work life save modest sum widow vindictive extreme urge committee support amendment reject clause unfair vindictive thirdly urge committee support amendment national interest bill national interest straightforward reason understand countless analysis britain problem different solution economist work men club thing agree need investment capital investment mean capital capital mean saving way obtain money borrow abroad apparently present government prefer borrow abroad run debt future generation encourage present generation save build capital invest column government vindictively clobber save work life discourage want save future nation interest vindictive legislation kind allow statute book mr julian ridsdale harwich surprised labour bench debate discuss measure unfair adopt word hon friend member basingstoke mr mitchell vindictive think word dogmatic apply proposal represent area great number elderly people time see increase level rate price fuel food clothe shoe cost living bear heavily people proposal aim hardly afford eke meagre existence pensioner affect proposal live merely exist labour government socialism socalled fairness hit people hurt great deal reason pleased support amendment wish underline say hon friend member guildford mr howell believe tax weak member community unfair believe encourage save present finance bill attack save weakness play great crisis face government term financial standing dealing world large sure chief secretary agree encourage save come government vindictive measure example thinking attack saving lead country disaster proposal represent attack weak member community time inflation column support amendment sincerely hope carry mr ian gow eastbourne wish support amendment principal reason intensely dislike principle retrospective legislation finance act pass early year lay rate tax apply current financial year reasonable majestys subject plan affair arrange finance basis follow legislation know tax liability principle flagrantly violate present finance bill evil remove committee accept amendment tendency retrospective legislation apparent finance bill respect rate investment surcharge procedure follow capital transfer tax tax retrospective march proposal publish present session second reason support amendment category people suffer result inflation person small saving income retire person different category impossible effort increase income definition retire people carry work life furthermore category person consider suffer grievously result collapse stock exchange people worthy citizen give lifetime work penalise hard hit inflation amendment pass hit hard right hon gentleman chancellor exchequer guilt complex subject november say house recognise column phrase current effort imply recognise income apply mind case result past effort grievous mistake government penalise saving reason support amendment present parliament special duty protect vulnerable time inflation shall fail discharge duty agree amendment finally figure right chancellor introduce budget march surely need revise upwards significantly cent account inflation government think figure right march obviously wrong today reason hope shall press amendment division mr giles shaw pudsey wish lay special emphasis plight elderly retire assumption attempt introduce surcharge particularly tax surcharge primarily large income moment discuss income investment case large income investment addition income source sustain standard living enjoy investment income definition tax surcharge additional impost cover exceptional earning fact extent grudgingly acknowledge fact clause extremely modest inadequate relief give retirement age vast majority retirement age affect clause beneficiary pension scheme doubt hat pension scheme receive income source elderly retire catch surcharge total income investment gather work life plus state pension unfairly hit impost fully subscribe view splendidly express hon friend member basingstoke mr mitchell eastbourne mr gow column particular group person constituency measure apply fully spokesman group approach eightieth year build investment save retirement available pension scheme employment retired shopkeeper retailer small business man constituency demonstrate rely exclusively sale business saving accrue work life live modestly retirement relief group short malicious pensioner constituent advise proposal budget leave takehome pay person increase pension come effect april ask chief secretary consider possible absolve surcharge retirement age income source expect argue proposal far costly modest amendment raise surcharge startline rate small contribution surely chief secretary agree surcharge elderly retire unjust unrealistic revising tax rate cent committee special plea group person hard hit inflation specific group agree form indexation protect inflation important plead give lifetime service community approach decline year seek respite earning accumulate saving realistic human wish press amendment mr douglas crawford perth east perthshire intend pull heartstring committee hon member like endorse amendment propose hon member guildford mr howell point occur bill stand column positive discrimination scotland save head rest united kingdom amendment pass discrimination scotland remove hope treasury note point dr reginald bennett fareham endorse hon friend representative independence north say matter necessary add epithet expression agree principle say like ask chief secretary take defenceless people measure mr tom king bridgwater intervene reinforce comment hon friend member eastbourne mr gow inflation diminish real value level surcharge apply knowledge hon member level fix remain inflation adjustment build proposal consider fair level year year policy political football palpably extremely unfair inflation continue present rate year year positive outrage knowledge successive government refuse adjust allowance account inflation recently visit factory constituency foreman tell man regard bit freak time indulge proud save spend money pleasure life man continually say colleague mug regret retire chap retire year foreman speak meet recently conversation retired man say remember tell work like tell real mug far well spend money fast column agree hon friend member guildford mr howell destroy interest concept saving bitterly damage fabric society chief secretary doubt brief ready play pingpong argument attempt government end concession far hope heart say bitterly tragic distressing situation believe concession level fix remain level propose year present rate inflation low hope chief secretary play parliamentary football matter heart argument forward mr john macgregor norfolk south wish repeat argument advance strongly agree want bring certain point proposal feel strongly cause immense bitterness people speak point want emphasise stress repeat people concern modest mean refer particularly argument apply group hon member perth east perthshire mr crawford need partisan speak scot represent english constituency scot assure hon gentleman saving habit spread south border long time people concern saving hear easy come category difficult person accumulate lifetime shopkeeper selfemploye mean accumulate saving sale business retire year age people unfairly hit way year final blow column repeat easy category retirement man sell house prosperous country retire area like norfolk year ago buy new house fairly cheaply life policy mature reach year age commit pension build ordinary saving result sum come exactly category excessive tax pay people equity see capital value collapse money fix interest stock see drop cent value year life ahead wonder saving face tax cent slice income cent tax net income inflation level tax position bad people bitter feel particularly ignore social contract face heavy increase spending group retire retire rural area face long journey shop service petrol increase hit particularly severely bitter wageearner receive increase range cent cent past year feel bitter young particularly unmarried commitment family receive substantial increase achieve enormous increase discretionary spending power past year feel bitter con trick play lifetime habit save retirement consider effect child see happen parent wonder worth save finally effect economy government encourage saving investment policy achieve exactly reverse problem go deep inconsistency bill clause government try column additional investment building society provision cripple likely contributor building society affect people desire invest life insurance policy instead help present problem insurance industry proposal make thing bad effect saving industry mention provision go directly contrary try achieve economic policy encourage philosophy spend spend spend believe make sense argument proposal debate finance bill shall hear great deal indexation welcome prolong discussion index allowance area talk main limit high rate apply amendment achieve purpose astonish government accept principle special treatment people show chancellor announcement new age allowance implement finance bill recognise validity argument inconsistency hit group hard year give extra relief year belief reason hope government second thought yield amendment mr percy grieve solihull action government seek set aside amendment finance act reduce limit concession aged people live investment income demonstrate middle class believe government wage deliberate war march year series question chancellor exchequer ask income necessary today produce tax equivalent series income year answer show march year need achieve equivalent income figure show column investment income today far rich send treasury number letter constituent clause large number people constituency sell business live retirement fruit lifetime labour income today earn section industry high income clause hit people save hard government deliberately seek discourage virtue thrift industry country achieve economic recovery speech speech treasury minister pay lipservice need thrift saving investment industry action bill include clause debate later discourage quality warn government patience middle class nearly end article time day head anger middle class express truth action government middle class people hit fall value stock share speech june year financial times index fall financial secretary sit bench grin face hon member listen dare treasury minister shut ear argument vicious attack save investment save invest hope second thought concede amendment hope doubt real motive destroy middle class destroy economy country mr patrick mayhew royal tunbridge well want support central point hon learn friend member solihull mr grieve represent constituency column unusually high concentration people retire bring life save bitterly regret having unworldly want belabour practical constituency point want attach point principle understand philosophy bill philosophy social justice able define social justice probably favour social justice case form justice require shall justice subject queen member community unselfish independent patriotic thing thrifty thing life penalise time member community thing noncontributing beneficiary retirement pension welfare benefit pay saver tax people beneficiary social justice victim social injustice partly bill make distinction person live income derive inherit investment hand person live income derive save investment believe essential amendment accept reason reason principle allude believe bill fundamentally bad particular base unjust principle point principle particular point shall support amendment mr william clark croydon south agree hon learn friend member royal tunbridge well mr mayhew say minister set taxpayer taxpayer regard talk inflation people draw welfare benefit oldage pension regard examine position instance people work different firm column person fortunate work firm superannuation scheme employee work life contribute scheme contribute successive government give tax relief contribution come retire age think age little mythical having superannuation contribution allow tax relief work life receive pension enjoy know earn income relief case subject investment surcharge case contemporary work different firm unfortunately pension scheme salary adjust lack scheme work life pay superannuation contribution scheme join pay tax slightly high income work life come retire saving clobber talk year pension week consider average industrial earning week appreciate talk assist rich small man regret minister responsible small business present present early like answer debate people penalise particularly sufficiently fortunate belong superannuation scheme selfemploye selfemploye work life provision old age government little schizophrenic bill chancellor say washington meeting finance minister country investment government clobber investment encourage government way chief secretary great expertise taxation matter fortunately minister understand tax column sure agree taxation acceptable equitable premise philosophy successive government example give person work different firm superannuation scheme equity grossly inequitable find funny apparently minister government bench constituent terribly rich thrifty save money work life belong firm superannuation scheme additional pension ask minister look matter clause vicious attack show sense independence person pension firm save money work life augment oldage pension pension receive age present government government thrifty life retirement age shall clobber tax hard contemporary hope right hon hon friend press amendment division mr patrick cormack staffordshire southwest extraordinary present government scourge saving class chief secretary concede amendment like guilty gross paradox government minister stand dispatch box time time say sure old people properly cater state system sure pension account inflation supplementary benefit likewise government talk need help underdeveloped country government time viciously attack citizen thrift foresight perseverance decade save money retirement dreadfully paradoxical situation sort government hit people column strange socialist wish help people advance penalise people take precaution sure dependent totally state retire hope chief secretary member middle class doubt get saving accountant know thing work bring personal experience knowledge bear hope form distorted brief toss away talk degree proper knowledge compassion reply debate hon member government house fond word compassion sort selective compassion allow apply certain section society absolutely fatuous allow browbeat hon member government house adopt guilty stance defend capital inheritance wrong somebody build capital saving contribute financial wellbeing country need people moment wrong ordinary human instinct try little well one child able oneself pass fruit one labour quote hon learn friend member solihull mr grieve accept type pernicious vindictive principle enshrine bill truly british hope shall vote course trust necessary vote hope amendment accept mr dafydd wigleycaernarvon intention intervene debate decide agree comment emanate bench agree sure follow hon member staffordshire southwest mr cormack great british tradition refer column pleased number member labour bench rise double figure debate member bench incredible spokesman government bench far rise defend government proposition having say find probably great sympathy idea income earn come investment member committee ask government seriousness right time measure contemplate people save order provide retirement superannuation scheme available find value saving decimate face marginal tax rate great cent people earn week time average male industrial worker earn week ask equitable point view timing proposal fair play people position government look proposal wish refer aspect capital formation everybody agree capital formation essential remedy economic situation real danger bill thing happen economy recent month induce invest money save scare away happen fire direction stoke move wonder government alternative increase level capital formation economy hear positive proposal direction reference increase level saving building society far meet point finally ask chief secretary money late estimate government expect change propose clause think answer revealing dr alan glynwindsor maidenhead chief secretary agree thing countrys economy large extent build small saver small entrepreneur encourage people sort type legislation propose today exactly reverse effect good say people encourage invest build society time exactly reverse bill real difference man life contribute pension scheme man alternative selfemploye business save invest end life live investment difference come point hon member caernarvon mr wigley bring time penalise saving extremely high inflation rate ought encourage people save sort measure wrong case certainly introduce wrong time mr nigel lawsonblaby intend speak debate strike eloquence cogency remark hon friend case amendment equal eloquence total silence bench opposite agree certain sedentary noise occur bench opposite time time grace description eloquence complaint proposal piece bill pretty present government think surcharge special tax selfemploye parcel attack independence selfreliance individual selfrespect attempt create spendthrift society totally dependent state hold temporarily lever power state context attack small saver column go smallness saving involve ask chief secretary answer question puzzle constituent want know pay surcharge investment income work hard saving accumulate talk small sum money hon friend member basingstoke mr mitchell say current rate inflation undated security people consol war loan recipient savage increase introduce finance bill saver save large sum like air chief secretary think financial secretary debate matter month ago government try introduce proposal yield compensate rate inflation know small saver mean social contract assume tell time time everybody trade union regard social contract necessity member income level rate inflation small saver income possibly pace rate inflation hope value small capital pace rate inflation need yield cent mean talk capital affect proposal capital small take account rate taxation yield need cover rate inflation rate taxation high bear think important social contract mythical social contract government talk contract faith people value money value people saving difficult thing inflation problem puzzle baffle country situation infinitely bad particular vulnerable unforgivable column breach imaginable social contract wish reiterate point hon friend member eastbourne mr gow true retrospective legislation come expect government contain finance bill occasion doubt examination see case bill certainly apply point discuss fair constitutionally government say fight election basis clobber saving small saver selfreliant independent basis destroy middle class having get mandate introduce new taxis effect plan far bad provision introduce fivesixth way fiscal year apply retrospectively time bill get royal assent retrospection acute doubt bill receive royal assent time mr cormack budget mr lawson hon friend correct have great difficulty continuous performance finance bill come enshrine statute book subject aspect bill raise question indexation opposition table amendment attempt improve past situation account fall value money sort rough ready indexation look seriously question indexation hope shall look wisely responsibly chief secretary matter come discussion proceeding previous finance bill tackle subject indexation tax bracket tax relief time pass small small saver catch trouble occur low low scale certain indirect taxis column valorem nature huge shift burden indirect direct taxation parliamentary sanction control public interest indexation raise occasion chief secretary say grateful hon member assurance longdistant future keyne say longdistant future dead longdistant future economic crisis catastrophe present government able devise good chief secretary sure crystal ball help inflation longdistant future way justify rejection indexation right hon gentleman go think elementary justice level tax group people pay decide advance manifestly unjust people know effective rate tax earning know rate inflation month create total uncertainty chancellor think help plan economy see sign help succeed far deal countrys problem think manifest nonsense know sure rate inflation tell cent turn accurate doubt like hazard confident forecast rate inflation month present system chancellor know tax yield well knowledge effect measure column indexation truth vested interest get additional revenue door occasionally hand phoney cut phoney restore status quo time time certain group people amendment seek provide group small saver investment income justice justice course people well benefit poor philosophy happen small saver totally deserve allow benefit mr norman lamont kingstonuponthame remarkable thing say chief secretary speech hon friend quote happy present distribution income imply look inflation redistribute income prefer inflation parliament mr lawson hon friend member kingstonuponthame mr lamont absolutely right afraid truth labour member hope certainly chief secretary relish inflation believe people help aim amendment hope accept government accept government carry house say cost million people ask find difficulty trust later evening shall eliminate handout trade union unnecessarily subject member fund levy leave million mr cormack food subsidy cut mr lawson hon friend say modest cut food subsidy enable justice achieve hope chief secretary accept amendment hope committee pass mr peter rees dover deal apologise committee having hear debate gather case ineffective case sit position hon member feltham heston mr kerr leave chamber clause amendment clause labour party pursue paranoiac obsession choose capital investment income saving saving income let country recognise quality government crisis nation affair class community hit inflation chancellor exchequer tell accept diminution living standard powerful section organise labour accept remain see community gainful occupation possibility cushion degree shock possibility climb present position pass crisis class affect clause cushion degree amendment refer retire small sum save calculate spend dignified comfortable old age occupation pension provision inadequate provision company pension comparatively recent phenomenon unfortunately selfemployed unable obtain tax relief sum aside pension hit particularly meanspirited measure embody clause right hon hon friend selfemploye particular single sacrificial lamb appease organise labour extreme left wing people right hon hon friend meet constituency mr cormack proud represent mr ree people give good public position lifetime occupation business entitle ask government regard recall calculation retirement modest car modest house budget modest standard live income people likely affect clause enormous present standard weekly term government prefer translate figure annual term income week gross challenge chief secretary regard excessive face diminution capital standard living probably see capital halve quarter see standard living cut increase price petrol depend car particularly live country district constituency bus service shopping deal dover canterbury mr david mitchell hon learn friend realise spite importance subject widow elderly retired small business man single member present government bench disgraceful mr ree grateful hon friend reemphase point start speech country recognise show depth concern government bench people interest heart try ventilate debate sorry chief secretary sorry occasion narrow shoulder carry great burden strong case carry debate burden defend describe continue describe mean clause reject modest meacolumn relief hope fact note outside house class particularly concerned face considerable diminution capital standard living petrol cost rate cost food coal fuel oil dare prime life live crisis climb position march able resume march progress catch expectation people speak able particularly tender interest see glimmer understanding sympathy government bench hope chief secretary believe listen debate carry intermittent conversation hon friend look little moral support receive rise obsession party acknowledge amendment provide small distinct measure justice hardlyused group community mr john loveridge upminster sympathise minister raise money pay government programme know labour government taxis rise clause particularly mean single imposition additional tax old people save lifetime people run example small grocery business sell live investment find lifetime saving heavily tax little well neighbour improvident save hardship worth constituency group old people flatlet strong resentment old people neighbour small saving lose social security benefit hardly well nextdoor neighbour column life work hard advise child say easy course study work hard save tell little benefit old sir john hall wycombe hon friend agree chancellor add great weight advice say save money spend mr loveridge yes chancellor comment add great weight point try hope chief secretary reconsider matter know elderly people position describe constituency come attend advice bureaux people deserve consideration small relief offer depend age happen choose acquire wife peculiar incidence choose scarcely offer relief case let chief secretary matter let think ask concession old save need encouragement generation need encouragement work hard chief secretary treasury mr joel barnett listen debate find interesting describe mean savage mr kenneth lewis rutland stamford minister friend sit mr barnett blame describe mean savage inhuman vindictive evil vicious schizophrenic unbritish hardly recognise hon member delighted hear sir john hall rise mr barnett shall way later amendment discuss seek reverse seek clause bring threshold investment column second amendment seek add year ask cost year implementation amendment extinguish yield million turn loss year million little background hon member guildford mr howell background go time unification think conservative chancellor far generous relief give investment income seek remove near relief give true comparison consider effect clause compare comparison preunification figure enormous relief give chancellor comparison single person income wholly investment pay tax combine effect spring budget current proposal person liability increase leave gain compare example kind comparison clear situation substantial relief give substantial investment income seek mr lawson chief secretary concede hypothetical individual constant income income drop real value considerably great gain right hon gentleman allege occur mr barnett go come question drop real income turn number point number occasion variety conservative member variety way mr david howell rise mr barnett come mr howell chief secretary speak background issue slip agility propriety government overturn retrospectively clear decision previous government unusual departure low deserve comment right hon gentleman go matter mr barnett listen conservative member speak start reply intention refer retrospective argument sure hon gentleman imagine apparently comment issue intention reply point debate clause discuss say tax saving income saving income tax conservative member accept saving income possibility investment income source leave point frequently wrong investment income surcharge point number conservative member point conservative government introduce unification view far know view conservative bench shall interested hear change mind amendment seek change investment income surcharge threshold threshold talk reduce cent cent maximum person talk investment income surcharge issue hope shall hear clobber saving income turn effect main amendment investment income obtain relief available unification column high rate earn income rate payable say represent saving course invest certain way invest way substantially depend manner investment investment equity certain type considerably large sure appreciate mr lawson mr barnett argue size figure need investment money underneath person bed hon member blaby mr lawson prefer money know difficult conservative member understand lot money majority ordinary work people lot money work people love able save hon gentleman ask question postman railwayman vast array work people give un idea way opposition think find hard understand work man today unable save lifetime amendment talk man save lifetime man investment income start work work talk man age purport main amendment mr david mitchell minister aware refer enormous sum save outside scope ability ordinary work man save represent saving week condemn outside scope ordinary work man realm reality mr barnett condemn save think marvellous man earn week wife child support chance save week opposition member listen column listen speech courtesy listen say work people able save end life talk end life talk possibly beginning work life start let clear talk give priority concession postunification term investment income tax earn income unreasonable figure recognise high figure save money work life specify high figure people age figure cent high figure relief give elderly earn income year help substantially think way opposition lot question inflation clear inflation happen stock exchange harm people course understand decide million tax relief certain group people give concession inflation occur past month argue group single protect inflation mr grieve right hon gentleman expression find lip treasury minister ask refrain talk away mr barnett shall come hon learn gentleman happy know give take away certainly reduce money available exchequer mr peter rost derbyshire southeast good thing mr barnett shall come argument retrospection raise number hon column start hon member guildford let clear new parliament unusual introduce tax tax year new parliament fact proposal defeat previous parliament composition house carry sensible legislation introduce government fault concerned legislation introduce parliament use say retrospective terrible thing happen precedent precedent mr lawson quote mr barnett shall pleasure december conservative government announce surcharge labour government take eventually spring budget government introduce announce december introduce spring budget retrospective legislation hasten add object mr lawson think chief secretary quote example important difference proposal reach period previous parliament oneyearonly measure chief secretary draw parallel assure propose clause fact year mr barnett prepared assurance hon gentleman certainly subject proposal retrospective effect write answer july parliament say turn beneficiary million hon member fir caernarvon mr wigley raise matter say speak open mind clear end speech state mind know view matter regard beneficiary description type people benefit million column modest saver elderly small business man man modest mean kind people let deal million basis main amendment seventyfive cent million amount million income year tax hon member jump tell enormous figure let entirely agree course enormous point beneficiary receive far away great million million sum income year kind priority hon gentleman prefer amendment tell priority doubt priority hon friend people investment income benefit relief wealthy hardworke people resemble kind person speak hon member basingstoke mr mitchell small business man work hard work life small shop dispute case give economic climate committee consider way priority work way seek spend million issue people worthy course worthy dispute issue mr mayhew hon gentleman say spend million misleading way put question spend million propose million away people context look circumstance people amass capital produce investment mr barnett grant hon learn gentleman tax receipt want taxpayer money argument worthy hon learn gentleman hon member touch financial economic situation express alarm size public sector borrowing requirement size deficit amendment add borrowing requirement tune million come directly offset sum tell way offset million cut public expenditure understand accept people suggestion come strangely opposition agriculture example opposition seek considerably high level support housing right hon member finchley mrs thatcher seek reduce mortgage interest rate cent introduce home save grant scheme cost million law order opposition press priority give increase police manpower improve pension big city allowance reward long service increase expenditure recruitment education conservative party manifesto say party want student grant mandatory cost million reduce parental contribution cost million aim fine exactly way cut public expenditure social security dishonest happen present upstairs committee opposition vote amendment cost large sum money oppose reduce defence expenditure million million offset million addition public sector borrowing requirement result amendment cut public expenditure column believe hear argument mr lawson food subsidy mr barnett interesting opposition million income year increase price bread policy opposition hon member caernarvon agree extremely surprised mr ioan evan aberdare right hon friend give committee catalogue additional public expenditure suggest opposition want increase defence expenditure abolish rating system put cost national exchequer mr barnett try save little time hope hon friend forgive mention item opposittion wish increase public expenditure clear way increase public sector borrowing requirement million way ask right hon hon friend mr wigley advocate hit people dependent investment income low scale albeit fraction money propose spend amendment suggest take food subsidy propose cut defence expenditure event right hon gentleman believe package total help increase decrease capital formation economy mr barnett conclude remark enormous question hope hon gentleman forgive deal detail accept want money food subsidy prefer defence expenditure view conservative party mrs kellettbowman answer mr barnett answer hon gentleman believe reply reasonably fully debate listen carefully speech hope shall forgive say amendment justification opposition divide committee urge right hon hon friend vote amendment mrs margaret thatcher finchley seldom listen unsatisfactory reply debate seldom hear anger joel barnettthe chief secretary take away million people action give argue public sector borrowing requirement argument debate finance bill course government spokesman give impression amendment add borrowing requirement million reveal time greatly excess million suddenly additional million add july november denis healeythe chancellor exchequer announce million argument bad effect right believe secondly return argument retrospection savage form retrospection encounter precedent chief secretary give precedent find precedent clearly right hon gentleman able find let consider happen finance bill government attempt fix rate tax applicable people year subject fully exhaustively debate house decide people think know tax year budget budgeting save know budget accordingly column precedent able find month decision government say respect tax year intend shall pay million budget ask right hon hon member consider time chief secretary propose exact additional million budget local rate hon friend member bridgwater mr king norfolk south mr macgregor join time point greatly increase rate people rural area pay people discuss moment live rural area pay additional tax pay additional rate receive letter say money aside additional rate pay tax chancellor exchequer fortunate reasonable cooperation get opposition reasonable economic matter understand proposal budget increase rate gas electricity postal charge necessary reduce nationalise industry deficit proposal come time people suffer inflation bad tax threshold partial suffer new policy eliminate nationalise industry deficit time chancellor exchequer propose additional tax house say year shall undoubtedly constitutionally technically correct discuss constitutionally amoral minister house having decide argument technically correct show hon gentleman opposite argument suggest believe people pay extra rate extra electricity charge budget pay extra technical hon gencolumn opposite people pay pocket chief secretary argue extra relief people adversely affect clause extra relief argument valid wait till year extra relief extra taxation penalty come year respect year mr joel barnett payable year mrs thatcher respect tax year pay year chief secretary know people age relief adversely affect particularly badly affect clause disabled income subject extra surcharge exceed savings income week retire prematurely redundant widow desert wife savings income week category stand pay cent taxation twentyfirst pound sympathy chief secretary people wish good sympathy time dispatch box see treasury minister difficulty ask extra relief apart tiny ask frequently say like recognise inflation people difficulty position chief secretary ask extra relief significance leave thing stop impose extra penalty ask defend tax answer clobber people save life father save awful thing hand saving child owneroccupie house value inherit child probably come saving income place column people suffer ask government help chief secretary say intend suffer defence say intend impose extra penalty reason say like saving income government prefer saving form government saving taxation investment capital formation form government investment capital formation get property widely distribute hand people john pardoea right hon gentleman say liberal bench debate year society saving investment carry government soon cease free society government hate wide distribution private property dislike people enjoy fruit save income certainly shall press amendment division hope good deal sympathy chief secretary nay successful amendment opposition undertake reverse clause return power present starting point imposition additional rate tax investment income shall consider relief wide question indexing tax level hope hon right hon friend displeasure chief secretary reply support saver britain vote amendment mr john pardoe cornwall north having move original amendment july amendment refer like comment chief secretary speech find far adequate reply wideranging case question investment income hon member speak house endanger conservative party column make middleclass protection society intention go road right hon gentleman chief secretary reply typical class term class debate amendment middle class july chief secretary say discuss saving income investment income distinguish call unearned income move pace euphemism call saving income ought distinguish income inherited wealth income wealth saving course lifetime doubt debate shall able select committee wealth tax derive saving private saving auspex lifetime bona fide pension fund hope persuade government step direction amendment concession level simply point chief secretary pension fund association university teacher pension fund permit lump sum invest chief secretary say take lump sum tax increase rate person leave draw pension fund trustee low rate chief secretary begin justification investment income argument advance realise appeal conservative argument question retrospection chief secretary perfectly right parliament change course financial year think leave year happen parliament wisdom wisdom overrule executive time terrible shock system column establishment parliament get way control executive electoral system work advantage british people democracy february able control executive change legislation change tax legislation place line wish parliament executive government mandate change thing deny sense people country argument work way leader opposition today tell government cent support follow legislation propose today government carry probably win vote shall certainly vote enact till pay increase investment income surcharge realise crazy electoral system right electoral system kind class legislation leftwe trotskyite nostrum labour party mr gwilym roberts cannock interested hon gentleman comment electoral system like tell liberal interruption deputy chairman order hon member make pass reference electoral system go permit discussion electoral system amendment mr pardoe absolutely right sir myer glad leader opposition point intelligent electoral system marxist dominate labour government able secure way today chief secretary refer borrowing requirement say government favour increase public expenditure remind column right hon gentleman debate july refer opposition determination spend money determination reduce taxis extra million advance corporation tax memory right hon hon member chancellor exchequer thunder chamber opposition right overturn government budget judgment glad right hon member carshalton mr carr pity courage conviction day stand firm parliamentary control executive british company mess government eat word let nonsense government increase borrowing requirement talk cost million government change situation opposition change time get way people wealthy ask pay social contract argument government case people pay social contract priority forward use money let try priority financial sector people country deserving concession people benefit concession hon gentleman believe undersecretary whitehall deserving increase year people benefit able carry amendment today deal language priority anybody quote merely say chief secretary case ask government leave good day parliament carry amendment july allow way column question amendment column committee divide aye no copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. There's little point in creating prosperity if, having done it, we fear we might be attacked in the streets or we or our property assaulted at home. And I believe, Madam Chairman, that above all else the people of this country wish to be protected against violence, theft and intimidation. [resounding applause] And they want children to be brought up to believe in the best of our traditional values and to know the difference between right and wrong. Now our opponents claim to be compassionate and I'm sure they are. Yet the fact that hundreds of thousands of elderly people no longer feel safe from assault and robbery and that they fear to leave their homes for social or family visits, for worship, for entertainment, even for shopping, that seems to have no place in socialist compassion. They promise welfare but ignore well-being. Now I think, Madam Chairman, that the whole nation has been absolutely shocked by reports of two horrifying attacks on elderly ladies, one of whom died and the other was systematically humiliated and robbed. But I think those two outrages do illustrate a much wider scandal. It is that all over the country, particularly in our large urban areas, old people do go in fear and trembling as never before during either the lifetime of their parents or grandparents. Now of course the great deterrent to crime is the probability of getting caught, but over the past four years that probability has receded. In London only 21 out of every 100 offenders are caught and convicted. It's hardly a coincidence that were are over 5,000 resignations from the Metropolitan Police in 1977 … Now I think that there are three main causes for the dreadful decline in standards and the increase in crime during our lifetime. The first is that we don't give enough priority to getting the police force up to strength [applause]. Now that's going to cost money but it will be money very well spent. Because we must remember that nearly one in every five policeman suffers injury during the course of his career while on police duties. And those whom we expect to take such risks on our behalf really should be well paid and properly equipped for their dangerous work. applause End of first section checked against IRN Report 24 May 1978. Conservatives believe that protection of the citizen as he goes about his lawful and peaceful pursuits is the Government's prime duty. [end p1] The second reason is that we have been too ready to listen to those who believe that rising crime is due to things like higher unemployment, poor housing, poor pay. While it has always been part of Conservative policy to raise the standard of living of our people we must recognise that in the 1930's there were far more people out of work, far less prosperity and worse housing—but much less crime than now. Further, so much crime today is committed by people who are neither poor nor badly housed nor unemployed. Rising crime is not due to “society” —but to the steady undermining of personal responsibility and self-discipline—all things which are taught within the family. That brings me to the third and perhaps most important reason for the fall in standards and increase in crime—the attack on traditional values. It is not surprising that sometimes parents have been confused about the endless advice and the many rival theories on how to bring up children. There were times when I had to remind myself that our pare and grandparents brought us up without trendy theories and they didn' make such a bad job of it. So it would seem that the tried and trusted values and commonsense application would lead to far better results than we are now experiencing. We must teach that each of us is a responsible person who can choose his own course of action and who has a duty to others to do as he would be done by. That morality is largely based on religious values. Cut the stem and the plant withers. That is why we have been so keen to keep religious teaching in our schools. To those who say that is indoctrinating children, I would reply—it is no such thing. [end p2] It is a practical recognition of the truth that while an adult may, if he wishes, reject the faith in which he has been brought up, a child will find it difficult to acquire any faith at all without some instruction in the discipline of belief and practice. But there is another quite different assault on the morality of the nation. I refer to the impact of inflation. Beginning of second section checked against IRN Report 24 May 1978 I don't boast that the level of inflation is still nearly 8 per cent. It's 8 per cent on top of about 16 per cent on top of about 25 per cent on top of about 13 per cent. [applause] That makes it a jolly sight bigger 8 per cent than our 13 per cent ever was, if you see what I mean. It's complicated and involves vast compound interest, but it does—you know it in your pockets. And the impact of inflation just undermines our standard of material value and unless we get it beaten it undermines therefore confidence in our society. Now you remember that in October 1974 Mr. Healey announced that he'd brought the rate of inflation down to 8.4 per cent. Since then it's been up like that and it's now apparently down on the six month basis to that again. Now he knew full well at the time that that was no more than a statistical quirk and that inflation would soon rise again, as it did to a record 27 per cent per annum. It was a quirk that created a headline and it helped to get his party re-elected. Now if we apply to the figures that have just come out the same arithmetic that he used then, known as the Healey basis [laughter], we're already back, ladies, to double digit inflation. For on that same three-monthly basis the annual rate of inflation has this month gone up to 10.5 per cent, it's back on its way up again. But that's not all. You know all the debates about money supply and we had to agree with the IMF that we'd keep the extra money, which is money which is not backed by extra production, within certain limits because that's the only way to keep future inflation down. And we were going to keep it in the interests of future inflation, going to keep it down to a range of 9–13 per cent. Now that's quite a big range, isn't it, it's not a narrow range. The Germans go for 8 per cent and get very worried if it goes up to 9 per cent. We only aim for 9–13 per cent and what do you think it turned out to be? Sixteen and a quarter percent. Now headlines about massive increases in the nation's money supply tend to sound pretty remote from the day-to-day concerns of those who us who have to think about the cost of the Sunday joint. But they're not because in those figures are the seeds of the inflation of the future. End of second section checked against IRN Report 24 May 1978. Let me remind you what one of the Treasury Minister's had to say to the Commons last month. [end p3] “A faster expansion in the United Kingdom monetary aggregates” he told us, “would tend to weaken confidence in sterling, push the exchange rate down and prices up” . The sting to that piece of jargon lay in the tail. Day by day this Government is clipping our coinage, and it is we housewives who will have to bear the still higher increase in prices that will follow in the 12 months that lie ahead. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc s little point create prosperity having fear attack street property assault home believe madam chairman people country wish protect violence theft intimidation resound applause want child bring believe good traditional value know difference right wrong opponent claim compassionate m sure fact hundred thousand elderly people long feel safe assault robbery fear leave home social family visit worship entertainment shop place socialist compassion promise welfare ignore wellbee think madam chairman nation absolutely shock report horrify attack elderly lady die systematically humiliate rob think outrage illustrate wide scandal country particularly large urban area old people fear tremble lifetime parent grandparent course great deterrent crime probability getting catch past year probability recede london offender catch convict hardly coincidence resignation metropolitan police think main cause dreadful decline standard increase crime lifetime not priority get police force strength applause s go cost money money spend remember nearly policeman suffer injury course career police duty expect risk behalf pay properly equip dangerous work applause end section check irn report conservative believe protection citizen go lawful peaceful pursuit government prime duty end second reason ready listen believe rise crime thing like high unemployment poor housing poor pay conservative policy raise standard living people recognise far people work far prosperity bad housing crime crime today commit people poor badly house unemployed rise crime society steady undermining personal responsibility selfdiscipline thing teach family bring important reason fall standard increase crime attack traditional value surprising parent confuse endless advice rival theory bring child time remind pare grandparent bring trendy theory didn bad job tried trust value commonsense application lead far well result experience teach responsible person choose course action duty morality largely base religious value cut stem plant wither keen religious teaching school indoctrinate child reply thing end practical recognition truth adult wish reject faith bring child find difficult acquire faith instruction discipline belief practice different assault morality nation refer impact inflation begin second section check irn report not boast level inflation nearly cent cent cent cent cent applause make jolly sight big cent cent mean complicated involve vast compound interest know pocket impact inflation undermine standard material value beat undermine confidence society remember october mr healey announce d bring rate inflation cent like apparently month basis know time statistical quirk inflation soon rise record cent annum quirk create headline help party reelect apply figure come arithmetic know healey basis laughter lady double digit inflation threemonthly basis annual rate inflation month go cent way s know debate money supply agree imf d extra money money back extra production certain limit s way future inflation go interest future inflation go range cent s big range not narrow range germans cent worried go cent aim cent think turn sixteen quarter percent headline massive increase nation money supply tend sound pretty remote daytoday concern think cost sunday joint figure seed inflation future end second section check irn report let remind treasury minister common month end fast expansion united kingdom monetary aggregate tell tend weaken confidence sterling push exchange rate price sting piece jargon lie tail day day government clip coinage housewife bear high increase price follow month lie ahead copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Oct 22, 2020 VP Mike Pence held a campaign rally in Waterford Township, Michigan on October 22. Read the transcript of his speech remarks here. Transcribe Your Own Content Try Rev and save time transcribing, captioning, and subtitling. Mike Pence: (00:14)Hello, Michigan. To Congressman Moolenaar, to our great State Republican Chairman Laura Cox, all of my fellow Americans near and far, thank you for trudging through the mud, standing in the rain. It is great to be back in the Wolverine State. And we are just 12 days away from a great victory all across Michigan and all across America. Crowd: (00:47)Four more years. Four more years. Mike Pence: (00:47)You got it. And it really is great to be here with some friends of ours. The son of Midland, Michigan champion for the fourth congressional district. And I’m here to tell you, he has fought every single day to advance the agenda that’s made Michigan and America stronger and more prosperous. Will you join me in thanking Congressman John Moolenaar [inaudible 00:01:27]. It’s also great to be here with a first generation American who has worked on the front lines of healthcare, serving his community. And I know he’s going to be the next great Congressman from the 11th congressional district. Let’s hear it for Eric Esshaki. Thanks, Eric. Thank you, John. Thank you all for being here. Mike Pence: (01:54)We’re here for one reason and one reason only, and that is that Michigan and America need four more years of President Donald Trump in the White House. And the road to victory runs right through Michigan. It really is great to be with all of you, to think about all we’ve done. Four years ago, a movement was born. A movement of every day Americans from every walk of life. Here in Michigan, you believe we could be stronger again. You believe we could be prosperous again. Michigan said, “Yes,” to President Donald Trump in 2016. And I know Michigan’s going to say yes to four more years. [inaudible 00:02:49]. I spoke to the president this morning. Crowd: (02:53)How is he? Mike Pence: (02:56)He’s headed out to Nashville in just a little bit. He is going to take the stage in Tennessee and he is going to take the fight to Joe Biden and I can’t wait. I tell you what, it’s going to be a great night. And a couple of weeks ago, we had a little debate out in Salt Lake City. Some people think we did all right. I’ve got to tell you, it was a great privilege for me to be able to be there, to talk about all this President has done with the support of all of your good people here in Michigan. I mean, think about it. Four years ago we inherited a military that had been hollowed out by devastating budget cuts. An economy that was struggling to break out of the slowest economic recovery since the Great Depression. Terrorism was on the rise around the world, and we witnessed a steady assault on our most cherished values. Mike Pence: (03:58)But in three short years, we rebuilt our military, we revived our economy, we secured our border, supported law enforcement, stood for life and liberty and the Constitution of the United States. Crowd: (04:13)USA. USA. USA. Mike Pence: (04:26)It all starts with our national defense. After years of reckless budget cuts that hollowed out our military. Truth be told, when we took office, when we took office, there was a percentage of aircraft in the United States Air Force that were kept on the ground to be used as spare parts to keep other aircraft in the air. I mean, the truth is that all changed when President Donald Trump walked into the Oval Office. President Trump signed the largest investment in our national defense since the days of Ronald Reagan. I can attest as your Vice President and as the proud father of a United States Marine pilot, we are finally giving our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and Coast Guard the resources and support they need to defend this nation. Mike Pence: (05:21)It’s not just been about standing with those who serve in uniform. We’ve also stood with all of you who have served in the uniform of the United States. In fact, if you’re a veteran of our armed forces, would you just mind raising your hand in the air and giving us a chance to say thank you one more time. Thank you for your service. When Joe Biden was Vice President we all remember we saw years of scandal at the VA that shocked the conscience of the nation. Remember that? I mean, we literally had veterans that were dying, waiting to get healthcare at VA hospitals. But under President Donald Trump, we signed the most sweeping reforms of the VA in 50 years. We fired more than 3000 VA employees that weren’t giving our veterans the care they deserved and Veteran’s Choice is now available for every veteran in America. Mike Pence: (06:29)Support for our troops and their families, support for our veterans, is just one more reason why we need four more years of President Donald Trump in the White House, and why we need Michigan to send an Army combat veteran to Washington, DC. We need John James in the United States Senate. Crowd: (06:49)USA. USA. USA. Mike Pence: (07:08)So it’s about providing for our national defense, but in our first three years, after Joe Biden had spent the previous eight years trying to tax and spend and regulate us back to a growing economy. President Donald Trump created the greatest economy in American history. Now in the midst of a global pandemic, Joe Biden wants to raise taxes by $4 trillion. President Trump, he cut taxes across the board for working families and businesses large and small. We rolled back more federal red tape than any administration in history. We fought for free and fair trade. We unleashed American energy and in just three short years, businesses large and small created 7 million good paying jobs, including 112,000 jobs right here in the Wolverine State. Mike Pence: (08:12)In our first three years unemployment reached a 50 year low across America. It’s the lowest unemployment for 20 years in the state of Michigan. And wages were rising across the board. What means the most to the President is wages were rising most rapidly for hardworking blue collar Americans. The forgotten men and women of America are forgotten no more. I don’t know if you heard about it, but just this morning, it was announced that weekly jobless claims just hit their lowest level since March. Michigan is back. America is coming back. The Motor City is back. Mike Pence: (08:57)It really is great to be in Pontiac. I think this might be my first visit here. And in Waterford. We’re not far from Pontiac. It’s just I was going to mention great legacy and tradition. My first car was a Pontiac. I thought that might do me some good. It was. We used to flip over the air filter in that thing. Did you do that when you were young? It had a 454 four barrel in it and man that thing would [inaudible 00:09:29] and it would make a lot of noise when you flipped that air filter. I’ll tell you. Let’s just hear it for the great tradition of craftsmanship in Waterford and Pontiac? And under President Trump’s leadership, I’m proud to report to you the automotive industry is roaring back all across the state of Michigan. Mike Pence: (09:55)Last year, General Motors announced they were adding about 400 jobs. Fiat Chrysler already is building a $1.6 billion plant, and they committed to 6,400 jobs in the Motor City right here in Michigan. It’s been because of those policies. Less taxes, less regulation. It’s also been because we have a president who’s been fighting for free and fair trade that puts American jobs and American workers first. When it comes to international trade it’s amazing to think when we took office, half of our international trade deficit was with communist China. $500 billion a year we were losing to China in our trading relationship. And Joe Biden, he’s been a cheerleader for communist China all along the way. He actually said the rise of China was a positive development. And he dismissed last year the idea that China was even a competitor, but under president Donald Trump, we made it clear from day one. When it comes to China, the era of economic surrender is over. We oppose tariffs and we’re going to stand strong until China opens their markets to what we make and what we grow once and for all. Crowd: (11:16)USA. USA. USA. Mike Pence: (11:29)Closer to home, when it comes to NAFTA, I don’t have to tell the people of Michigan, but this Hoosier also knows about NAFTA. I mean, it’s 25 years since NAFTA was signed, we had 60,000 factories that closed all across America. We did. Many of those jobs moved South of the border and many moved overseas. Now Democrats for years used to talk about how bad NAFTA was. But Joe Biden never lifted a finger to renegotiate it or reform it. But under the man who wrote the Art of the Deal, America got a better deal. NAFTA is gone. The USMCA is here to stay and it’s a win For Michigan and a win for America. Mike Pence: (12:13)I don’t know if you know but under the USMCA, 75% of auto parts in duty free cars have to be made in North America, and 40% of them have to be made by workers making the average hourly wage that workers make in the United States of America. People in Michigan deserve to know not only did Joe Biden never lift a finger to reform NAFTA, but when it came time to replace it with the USMCA, his running mate Kamala Harris was one of only 10 Senators to vote against the USMCA. She said the USMCA didn’t go far enough on climate change. Kamala Harris put her radical… Mike Pence: (13:03)… climate change. Kamala Harris put her radical environmental agenda ahead of Michigan auto workers and Michigan auto jobs. It’s one more reason why Michigan needs to say no to Joe and yes to four more years of President Donald Trump in the White House. Mike Pence: (13:32)And when it comes to energy, so important in a manufacturing state like Michigan and all across this country, Joe Biden and the radical left want to crush American energy under a $2 trillion version of the Green New Deal. Remember in the last presidential debate, President Trump had to remind him that he supported the Green New Deal. Might have to remind him again tonight. I mean, their $2 trillion version of the Green New Deal would raise the cost of electricity for every home and business in Michigan. It’s true. I mean, they’re talking about requiring four million businesses to be essentially retrofit, two million homes to be retrofit to live up to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and AOC’s Green New Deal. President Trump, he’s been a champion of American energy and American energy independence. We ended the war on coal. And today, America is a net exporter of energy for the first time in 70 years. Incredible. Mike Pence: (14:34)When Joe Biden was vice president, America actually lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs. And the last president, who I saw was out on the campaign trail yesterday, he said those jobs were never coming back. Do you remember? I mean, they referred to our part of the country as the Rust Belt. And there was a lot of rust on the belt when they were in charge. Remember after President Obama said that those jobs were never coming back, he said, “What magic wand do you have?” Now, we didn’t need a magic wand. We just needed President Donald Trump in the White House. 500,000 manufacturing jobs in just three years, including 17,000 jobs right here in the state of Michigan. Manufacturing is back. Mike Pence: (15:38)And when it comes to healthcare, even on healthcare, you all remember their plans. Remember Obamacare? All the promises that they made. In the last administration, Joe Biden’s vice president, he said, “If you like your doctor, you can keep it.” Wasn’t true. They said, “If you like your health insurance, you can keep it.” Wasn’t true. They said health insurance premiums would go down. When we took office, health insurance premiums had doubled under Obamacare. And Joe Biden has a plan to literally take the socialized medicine option of Bernie Sanders and put it right in the middle of Obamacare. It would send us on an inevitable path to socialized medicine here in Michigan and all across America. President Donald Trump, we got rid of the individual mandate. We’ve been fighting to lower the cost of health insurance without growing the size of government. We’ve lowered the cost of prescription drugs. Medicare Advantage premiums dropped by 54% in this state. We’re going to have the best healthcare system in the world. Even better, and America will never be a socialist country. Mike Pence: (17:01)Men and women of Michigan, we got a choice to make. You got to talk to your neighbors and friends about it when you trudge back through that field to get back to your cars. God bless you for it. I mean, honestly, when you think about our economy, I really do believe the choice that come November 3rd here in Michigan is between a Trump recovery and a Biden depression. There’s this nonpartisan study from Congressman Moolenaar, I don’t know if you saw it. Just came out a day ago. It said that under Joe Biden’s economic policies, America would lose five million jobs. And the average income of a typical American family would drop by $6,500 a year. So you got to ask yourself and your neighbors and your friends, in every day between now and election day, who do you really think can bring this economy all the way back and then some? A career politician who spent 47 years in Washington raising taxes, stifling our economy under an avalanche of regulation and economic surrender, or a proven job creator who will keep cutting taxes, rolling back red tape, and fighting for American jobs and American workers? Mike Pence: (18:22)For our families, for our jobs, for an American comeback like we have never seen, we need four more years of President Donald Trump in the White House. So we’ve stood for security. Crowd: (18:56)Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Mike Pence: (18:56)So we stood for security, we fought for prosperity, fought for American energy and American workers. And President Donald Trump has stood strong for the rule of law. So I stand here today, I’m proud to report to you that our president has already appointed more than 230 conservatives to our federal courts at every level. And they are all men and women who will uphold the god given liberties in our Constitution like the freedom of religion, the freedom of speech, and the second amendment right to keep and bear arms. Now last month, we rightly paused as a nation to honor the life and service of the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg. But when the memorials were over, President Trump fulfilled his duty under the Constitution of the United States when he nominated a brilliant principled conservative woman who loves the Constitution to the Supreme Court. He nominated Judge Amy Coney Barrett. Isn’t she great? Crowd: (20:00)ACB. ACB. ACB. ACB. ACB. ACB. Mike Pence: (20:16)Isn’t she great? I’ll tell you, I’m a little partial. I mean, she is from Indiana. And President Trump and I, we called on Democrats in Washington to give Judge Barrett a respectful confirmation and we’re going to keep calling on them. But we have reason to be concerned. I mean, you all remember during her last confirmation hearing, don’t you? The ranking member on the Judiciary Committee, Democrat from California, actually said she was concerned about Judge Barrett’s nomination because of her Catholic faith. She said, and I quote, “The dogma lives loudly within you.” And Hollywood elites have been criticizing Judge Barrett ever since. Well, I got news for the Democrats and their friends in Hollywood. That dogma lives loudly in me. That dogma lives loudly in you. And the right to live and work and worship according to the dictates of our faith lives loudly in the Constitution of the United States of America. Mike Pence: (21:43)Now, the Senate is going to continue to discharge their duty to advise and consent. And I’m proud to report even though the Democrats didn’t show up, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted Judge Amy Coney Barrett out of the committee. She’s headed to the floor for a vote on Monday. And I’ll make you a prediction. Come this Monday, Judge Amy Coney Barrett is going to be Justice Amy Coney Barrett. We’re going to fill that seat on the Supreme Court. Mike Pence: (22:26)Now, the people in Michigan deserve to know, after 150 years with nine justices on the Supreme Court, leading Democrats in Washington are talking about packing the court, adding seats to the Supreme Court so they can nominate radical leftist judges to advance their agenda from the judicial branch. Now, Joe Biden did say that he’s going to tell the American people what he’d do by court packing after Judge Barrett was confirmed. Now he’s saying he’s going to tell us after the election. I mean, I saw a clip this morning on the way here, he told 60 Minutes, it’s a live ball. He’s going to tell us after the election, after millions of Americans have cast their votes, whether he’s going to pack the court in what would be the biggest power grab in American history. I mean, come on, man. The American people deserve a straight answer, Joe. When you’re running for the highest office in the land, the American people deserve to know whether you’re going to respect the highest court in the land. Mike Pence: (23:52)I mean, we know what’s going on here, don’t we? I mean, I tell people I was born in the morning, but not yesterday morning. I mean, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris aren’t telling us what they’re going to do because Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are going to pack the court with liberal activist judges if they win this election. But we’re not going to let it happen. We’re going to reelect President Donald Trump for four more years. And we’re going to send John James to a larger Republican majority in the United States Senate. We’re going to stand for the rule of law in an independent judiciary. I promise you that. Mike Pence: (24:38)And every day since this president took office, I’m proud to say that we have stood without apology for the men and women who serve on the thin blue line of law enforcement, and we always will. Crowd: (24:50)Back the blue. Back the blue. Back the blue. Back the blue. Back the blue. Back the blue. Mike Pence: (24:57)Oh, we back the blue. The president and I know what you know. Men and women who serve in law enforcement are some of the best people in this country. They’re people that literally get up every day and count that our lives is more important than their own. And those who serve in law enforcement deserve the respect of every American every day. In fact, kind of comes with the job description. We got a lot of law enforcement people around me. Would you mind just showing them how much you appreciate all the law enforcement people that are here today? Can we just say thank you to them and their families for all they do for us every day as they protect and serve? Thank you all very much. Now, President Trump and I will always support the right of Americans to peaceful protest. Mike Pence: (26:02)I will always support the right of Americans to peaceful protest. But rioting and looting is not peaceful protest. Burning businesses is not free speech. Now, all summer long, all Joe Biden ever talked about were peaceful protesters. Remember? As the American people literally watched businesses and communities burned to the ground. Mike Pence: (26:25)The truth is Joe Biden would double down on the policies that have led to violence in American cities. I mean, when you start to withdraw support from those who protect and serve, you only emboldened those who would do harm to our families and our communities. Now, Joe Biden justifies it all by saying that, in his words, America is systemically racist. He had Kamala Harris often say that police officers in this country have a, quote, “Implicit bias against minorities.” Mike Pence: (27:06)When Joe Biden was asked if he’d support cutting funding for law enforcement, he said, “Yes, absolutely.” Kamala Harris recently praised the mayor of Los Angeles for cutting $150 million out of the budget of the LAPD. Mike Pence: (27:25)Well, let me make you a promise. With four more years of President Donald Trump in the white house, we’re not going to defund the police. Not now. Not ever. We’re going to back the blue every single day. Mike Pence: (27:39)Back the blue. Back the blue. Back the blue. Back the blue. Mike Pence: (27:52)We all know we don’t choose have to between supporting law enforcement and supporting our African-American neighbors and friends, minority families, and all the families in our cities. We have done both for the last three and a half years, and we’re going to keep doing both for four more years. Mike Pence: (28:09)Under this president, we invested, with the strong support of people like John Moolenaar, we supported funding in the cops program that allowed for the hiring of 4,000 additional police officers. When violence broke out in our cities, we launched Operation Legend. In cities across the country, we worked with state and local law enforcement. We’ve already arrested more than 3000 violent offenders in our cities. We’re starting policing our streets. Mike Pence: (28:36)At the same time we’ve been supporting law enforcement, I couldn’t be more proud to be vice-president to a president that saw the lowest unemployment ever recorded for African-Americans, the highest funding for historically Black colleges and universities in history, we created 8,000 opportunity zones in our major cities, passed criminal justice reform, and we have fought to give educational choice to every family in America. Mike Pence: (29:06)This president has proven we can stand with law enforcement, stand with our minority families, and I promise you, we’re going to keep doing that. We’re going to have law and order in every city, in every state, in this nation for every American of every race and creed and color, so help us God. Mike Pence: (29:33)So we stood with the rule of law, stood strong with law enforcement, we’ve also stood by our most cherished liberties. You know, when Joe Biden was vice president, we saw a steady assault on the freedom of religion and the American people. One administrative act after another. The last administration actually hauled a group of Catholic nuns into federal court to force them to compromise their faith to live under the mandates of Obamacare. President Donald Trump, he restored the conscience rights of doctors and nurses and religious charities, and president Trump ended the assault on the Little Sister of the Poor once and for all. Mike Pence: (30:26)Beyond our values and our faith, I couldn’t be more proud to be vice president to a president who has stood without apology for the sanctity of human life. Where Joe Biden and Kamala Harris support taxpayer funding of abortion all the way up to the moment of birth, President Trump reinstated the Mexico City policy that denied federal dollars to any program that promotes abortion around the world and he signed a bill that gave states the right to defund Planned Parenthood. Mike Pence: (31:14)President Donald Trump is the most pro-life president in American history, and we’re going to stand for the right to life for four more years. Mike Pence: (31:28)Four more years. Four more years. Mike Pence: (31:29)So in our first three years, think about the progress we’ve made with the strong support from our allies in Congress. We rebuilt our military, revived our economy, stood for law and order, liberties, and life. I want to say from my heart, none of that would have been possible without the strong and consistent support of Michigan’s Republican delegation to Congress. Mike Pence: (31:54)That’s why right after we reelect President Donald Trump for four more years, right after you send John James to the United States Senate, we need to send Congressmen John Moolenaar and Eric Esshaki to a new Republican majority in the House of Representatives that retires Nancy Pelosi once and for all. Mike Pence: (32:23)I mean, when you look at all that we accomplished in those first three years, there’s only one way you can describe it. We made America great again. Then, I don’t have to tell anyone here or any American, that the coronavirus struck from China. But before the first documented case of community spread anywhere in this country, President Donald Trump did with no American president had ever done. He suspended all travel from China, the second largest economy in the world. Mike Pence: (33:07)Now Joe Biden said that was xenophobic. He said it was hysterical. He actually wrote in January that suspending travel from any country would, quote, “ake things worse.” But I can tell you, having led the White House Coronavirus Task Force over the last eight months, President Trump’s actions suspending all travel from China saved untold American lives and bought us invaluable time to stand up the largest national mobilization since World War II. Mike Pence: (33:45)[inaudible 00:33:48], we surged millions of medical supplies to our incredible doctors and nurses all across Michigan and all across America. We developed new therapeutics that are literally saving lives as we speak. Before the end of this year, we’re going to have tens of millions of doses of a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine for the American people. That’s what leadership looks like. That’s the leadership of President Donald Trump. So we’re going to keep providing Michigan everything that you need. Mike Pence: (34:23)Can we just take a moment? I’ve got Eric Esshaki here who spent a career in health care. Can we just show our appreciation for the nurses, for the doctors, for the first responders, and everyone who has been there for our families throughout this pandemic? They are heroes, all. Mike Pence: (34:43)We’re going to keep making sure that our health care providers have all the support they need to give anyone impacted by the coronavirus the level of health care that we would want a family member of ours to have. We’ll keep all of us doing our part. We’ll keep slowing the spread. We’ll keep protecting the vulnerable. We will keep saving lives. Mike Pence: (35:09)Where Joe Biden is talking about shutting down the economy, we’re opening up America again. You know, it’s amazing to think just the last five months after America lost 22 million jobs at the height of this pandemic, with that strong foundation that we poured together in those first three years of a strong economy, with the unprecedented support that Congressman Moolenaar and others provided the families and businesses in the midst of this pandemic, we’ve already seen 11.5 million people go back to work, including 600,000 people right here in Michigan. We are opening up America again, and we are opening up America’s schools. We just announced we are sending 100 million 15-minute tests to all the school nurses around America. We are going to make sure that we can get our kids back in the classroom where they belong and keep them there safe and sound. We’re not just opening up our schools in the classroom, thanks to President Donald Trump, Big Ten football is back. Michigan State is going to be back on the gridiron and the Wolverines will be back on the field at The Big House come this Saturday. You’re in. Mike Pence: (36:55)You know, it really is great to be with you today and I appreciate y’all coming out. But I expect that your are here because you all know not only the choice in this election has never been clearer, but the stakes have never been higher. When you stood in the rain and you trudged through that muddy field, not to see your vice-president, you did it because Michigan and you love America. Mike Pence: (37:19)We love Pence. We love Pence. We love Pence. Mike Pence: (37:23)The truth is when you look at their agenda of higher taxes, open borders, socialized medicine, the Green New Deal, defunding the police, packing the courts, it’s clear Joe Biden would be nothing more than a Trojan horse for the radical left. Mike Pence: (37:51)Joe Biden says that democracy is on the ballot. Well, I think our economic recovery is on it, I think law and order are on the ballot, but I also believe there are things much more foundational to our country, much more fundamental to who we are as a nation. You know, this election, I think, when it’s all said and done, it’s not going to be whether America is more conservative or more liberal, whether America is more Republican or Democrat, more red or more blue. I think the choice in this election is whether America remains America. Whether we’re going to chart a course built on the highest ideals of this nation of freedom, patriotism, liberty, justice for all, or whether we are going to let Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and the radical left, take our nation on a path to socialism and American decline. Mike Pence: (39:01)No. Mike Pence: (39:01)… path of socialism and American decline. For our freedom, for all the ideals that have always made America great, we need to decide right here and right now that Joe Biden will never be president of the United States. We’re going to re-elect President Donald Trump for four more years. Mike Pence: (39:23)It’s on Michigan. Mike Pence: (39:35)As the president said, “We’ve got work to do.” For all we accomplished in those first three years, for all this president has done to see our nation through this global pandemic, that’s just what President Trump calls a good start, right? I mean, we’re just getting started. And over the next four years, we’re going to distribute that vaccine and we’re going to defeat the virus. We’re going to maintain America’s unrivaled military might and ensure peace through American strength. We’re going to make America into the manufacturing super power of the world and end reliance on China once and for all. We’re going to uphold religious liberty, the freedom of speech and the right to keep and bear arms. We’re going to hire more police. We’re going to ban sanctuary cities. We’re going to stop the indoctrination of our kids and restore patriotic education to America’s schools. As the president said at Mount Rushmore, “We’re going to teach our children to love our country, honor our history, and always respect our great American flag.” Mike Pence: (40:59)Men and women, I have to tell you, I didn’t know the president that well before he picked up the phone and called me and asked me to join this ticket, but I said yes in a heartbeat because I saw what the people of Michigan saw. I saw the vision grounded in the highest American ideals. I saw the leadership qualities and the determination that could make this country great again. I’ll never forget the night that he called. We’d been tipped off that among a group of Americans he was considering as running mates that we were going to get the phone call. We prayed all the way through it. My wife was standing right next to me. Phone rang, I picked up the phone, I heard that familiar voice, and he said, “Mike, it’s going to be great.” And you know what? He was right. It has been great every single day, and we’re going to make it great still for four more years. We’ve served shoulder to shoulder these last four years. Some people think we’re a little bit different, but actually we’ve gotten to be very close friends. I want to tell you, I’ve been there when the cameras are off and the Kleig lights are off. I’ve been there every day at his side. I promise you, there has never been a day gone by, against overwhelming opposition by the Democrats and their allies in the national media, there’s never been a day gone by that President Trump hasn’t gotten up and fought to keep the promises that he made to the people of Michigan. Now it’s our turn to fight for him. Mike Pence: (43:21)I got a couple things I’ve got to ask you to do before I head over to Indiana. Going back to the Hoosier State today, because I’m going to do what I’m first going to ask you to do. The first thing I need you to do, Karen and I are going to do tomorrow morning, vote, Michigan. Vote to re-elect President Donald Trump. Mike Pence: (43:55)I mean, I heard early voting has already started here in Michigan. Maybe after we’re done here, it’s only about 1:00, you can go down to the Waterford Township clerks office, 5,200 Civic Center Drive, here in Waterford. They’re open 8:00 to 5:00. Go and vote for President Donald Trump. And remember, friends don’t let friends vote alone. Bring a family member, bring a co-worker and vote to re-elect this president for four more years. Mike Pence: (44:42)Secondly, after you vote, with a friend, I want you to spend every remaining moment of the next 12 days, telling people why you walked through that muddy field to get here. Really. Tell them all that we accomplished in those first three years to make America stronger and more prosperous, to strengthen the Constitutional foundation of our liberties in this nation, to stand with law and order. You go tell them all that we accomplished and tell them about the choice that we faced. Say, “I was out at the airport the other day, standing in the rain, Mike showed up and he just talked for a whole hour, just about everything that we’ve accomplished and what we can do with four or more years.” Mike Pence: (45:33)I really do believe that when Michigan made history in 2016, it was because people were talking to each other. I mean, you remember, all the pundits, all the polls, were writing us off back then. Right? But the people of Michigan knew different. You knew we could be strong again and prosperous again, and you talk to your neighbors and friends at worship and at work and you need to do it again. Mike Pence: (45:58)I’ll never forget that election night. We were at the campaign headquarters in New York City. I was standing right here and the president was standing next to me. My wife and our kids were here and the whole Trump fan was there. We were looking up at these big TV screens on the wall. Every time a state would come in, he’d like punch me in the shoulder. He’d say, “South Carolina’s in.” Boom. He’d say, “Did you see that?” I said, “Yeah. Yeah.” Said, “Indiana came in.” Boom. All right? But I’m telling you what, when Michigan came through, I thought he was going to knock me on the ground. You’ve got to do what you did before. Go tell the story all across Michigan, why we need four more years of President Donald Trump in the White House. Mike Pence: (46:52)I want to feel that again. I know we will if we all do what we need to do. Remember, from here, vote with a friend, tell somebody every day between now and election. Mike Pence: (47:06)Finally, as I’ve traveled across this country the last four years, I’ve come to two great conclusions that I believe more now than I’ve ever believed in my life. Everywhere I’ve gone, I’m more convinced than ever that America is a freedom-loving nation and America is a nation of faith. As we travel across this land, the sweetest words the president and I ever hear are when someone will say, “I’m praying for you.” And we hear it a lot. Mike Pence: (47:45)I would just say if you’re of a mind to bend the knee or bow the head from time to time, now would a good time to do it. And over the next 12 days, I’d encourage you to pray with confidence. Claim those ancient words that Americans have clung to through much more challenging times than we can possibly imagine, the Americans who have cleared the forest and settled this state, the Americans who fought in the wars, endured the great challenges in our nation. Those ancient words that if his people who are called by his name will humble themselves and pray and turn, he’ll do like he’s always done. In the long and storied history of this nation, he’ll hear from heaven and he’ll heal this land. This one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Pray for America. Pray for all of the American people. It’ll make a difference. It’ll make a difference. I leave here today with renewed confidence, grateful for your support, grateful for your attendance here today, and more confident than ever that we are just 12 days away from a great victory all across Michigan and all across America. I just know if all of us do all that we need to do between now and election day, we’re going to make Michigan and America stronger and safer than ever before. We’re going to make Michigan and America more prosperous than you could possibly imagine. We’re going to make Michigan and America more United than ever before. And with John James in the United States Senate, with Congressman John Molinar and Eric Esshaki and a new Republican majority in the House, with President Trump in the White House for four more years, and with God’s help, we will make America great again, again. Mike Pence: (50:16)Thank you all very much. God bless you. God bless America. Now let’s go get it done, Michigan. Transcribe Your Own Content Try Rev and save time transcribing, captioning, and subtitling. Copyright Disclaimer Under Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. 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oct vp mike pence hold campaign rally waterford township michigan october read transcript speech remark transcribe content try rev save time transcribe captioning subtitle mike pence michigan congressman moolenaar great state republican chairman laura cox fellow americans near far thank trudge mud stand rain great wolverine state day away great victory michigan america crowd year year mike pence get great friend son midland michigan champion fourth congressional district tell fight single day advance agenda michigan america strong prosperous join thank congressman john moolenaar inaudible great generation american work line healthcare serve community know go great congressman congressional district let hear eric esshaki thanks eric thank john thank mike pence reason reason michigan america need year president donald trump white house road victory run right michigan great think year ago movement bear movement day americans walk life michigan believe strong believe prosperous michigan say yes president donald trump know michigan go yes year inaudible speak president morning crowd mike pence head nashville little bit go stage tennessee go fight joe biden wait tell go great night couple week ago little debate salt lake city people think right get tell great privilege able talk president support good people michigan mean think year ago inherit military hollow devastating budget cut economy struggle break slow economic recovery great depression terrorism rise world witness steady assault cherish value mike pence short year rebuild military revive economy secure border support law enforcement stand life liberty constitution united states crowd usa usa mike pence start national defense year reckless budget cut hollow military truth tell take office take office percentage aircraft united states air force keep ground spare part aircraft air mean truth change president donald trump walk oval office president trump sign large investment national defense day ronald reagan attest vice president proud father united states marine pilot finally give soldier sailor airmen marines coast guard resource support need defend nation mike pence stand serve uniform stand serve uniform united states fact veteran armed force mind raise hand air give chance thank time thank service joe biden vice president remember see year scandal va shock conscience nation remember mean literally veteran die wait healthcare va hospital president donald trump sign sweeping reform va year fire va employee give veteran care deserve veteran choice available veteran america mike pence troop family support veteran reason need year president donald trump white house need michigan send army combat veteran washington dc need john james united states senate crowd usa usa mike pence provide national defense year joe biden spend previous year try tax spend regulate grow economy president donald trump create great economy american history midst global pandemic joe biden want raise taxis trillion president trump cut taxis board work family business large small roll federal red tape administration history fight free fair trade unleash american energy short year business large small create million good pay job include job right wolverine state mike pence year unemployment reach year low america low unemployment year state michigan wage rise board mean president wage rise rapidly hardworke blue collar americans forget man woman america forget know hear morning announce weekly jobless claim hit low level march michigan america come motor city mike pence great pontiac think visit waterford far pontiac go mention great legacy tradition car pontiac think good flip air filter thing young barrel man thing inaudible lot noise flip air filter tell let hear great tradition craftsmanship waterford pontiac president trump leadership proud report automotive industry roar state michigan mike pence year general motors announce add job fiat chrysler build billion plant commit job motor city right michigan policy taxis regulation president fight free fair trade put american job american worker come international trade amazing think take office half international trade deficit communist china billion year lose china trading relationship joe biden cheerleader communist china way actually say rise china positive development dismiss year idea china competitor president donald trump clear day come china era economic surrender oppose tariff go stand strong china open market grow crowd usa usa mike pence home come nafta tell people michigan hoosier know nafta mean year nafta sign factory close america job move south border move overseas democrats year talk bad nafta joe biden lift finger renegotiate reform man write art deal america get well deal nafta go usmca stay win michigan win america mike pence know know usmca auto part duty free car north america worker make average hourly wage worker united states america people michigan deserve know joe biden lift finger reform nafta come time replace usmca running mate kamala harris senator vote usmca say usmca far climate change kamala harris radical mike pence climate change kamala harris radical environmental agenda ahead michigan auto worker michigan auto job reason michigan need joe yes year president donald trump white house mike pence come energy important manufacture state like michigan country joe biden radical left want crush american energy trillion version green new deal remember presidential debate president trump remind support green new deal remind tonight mean trillion version green new deal raise cost electricity home business michigan true mean talk require million business essentially retrofit million home retrofit live joe biden kamala harris aoc green new deal president trump champion american energy american energy independence end war coal today america net exporter energy time year incredible mike pence joe biden vice president america actually lose manufacturing job president see campaign trail yesterday say job come remember mean refer country rust belt lot rust belt charge remember president obama say job come say magic wand need magic wand need president donald trump white house manufacturing job year include job right state michigan manufacturing mike pence come healthcare healthcare remember plan remember obamacare promise administration joe biden vice president say like doctor true say like health insurance true say health insurance premium take office health insurance premium double obamacare joe biden plan literally socialized medicine option bernie sander right middle obamacare send inevitable path socialized medicine michigan america president donald trump get rid individual mandate fight lower cost health insurance grow size government lower cost prescription drug medicare advantage premium drop state go good healthcare system world well america socialist country mike pence woman michigan get choice got talk neighbor friend trudge field car god bless mean honestly think economy believe choice come november michigan trump recovery biden depression nonpartisan study congressman moolenaar know see come day ago say joe biden economic policy america lose million job average income typical american family drop year get ask neighbor friend day election day think bring economy way career politician spend year washington raise taxis stifle economy avalanche regulation economic surrender prove job creator cut taxis roll red tape fighting american job american worker mike pence family job american comeback like see need year president donald trump white house stand security crowd year year year year year year year mike pence stand security fight prosperity fight american energy american worker president donald trump stand strong rule law stand today proud report president appoint conservative federal court level man woman uphold god give liberty constitution like freedom religion freedom speech second amendment right bear arm month rightly pause nation honor life service late justice ruth bader ginsberg memorial president trump fulfil duty constitution united states nominate brilliant principled conservative woman love constitution supreme court nominate judge amy coney barrett great crowd acb acb acb acb acb mike pence great tell little partial mean indiana president trump call democrats washington judge barrett respectful confirmation go call reason concern mean remember confirmation hearing ranking member judiciary committee democrat california actually say concerned judge barrett nomination catholic faith say quote dogma live loudly hollywood elite criticize judge barrett get news democrats friend hollywood dogma live loudly dogma live loudly right live work worship accord dictate faith live loudly constitution united states america mike pence senate go continue discharge duty advise consent proud report democrats senate judiciary committee vote judge amy coney barrett committee head floor vote monday prediction come monday judge amy coney barrett go justice amy coney barrett go fill seat supreme court mike pence people michigan deserve know year justice supreme court lead democrats washington talk pack court add seat supreme court nominate radical leftist judge advance agenda judicial branch joe biden go tell american people court packing judge barrett confirm say go tell election mean see clip morning way tell minute live ball go tell election million americans cast vote go pack court big power grab american history mean come man american people deserve straight answer joe run high office land american people deserve know go respect high court land mike pence mean know go mean tell people bear morning yesterday morning mean joe biden kamala harris tell go joe biden kamala harris go pack court liberal activist judge win election go let happen go reelect president donald trump year go send john james large republican majority united states senate go stand rule law independent judiciary promise mike pence day president take office proud stand apology man woman serve thin blue line law enforcement crowd blue blue blue blue blue blue mike pence blue president know know man woman serve law enforcement good people country people literally day count life important serve law enforcement deserve respect american day fact kind come job description get lot law enforcement people mind show appreciate law enforcement people today thank family day protect serve thank president trump support right americans peaceful protest mike pence support right americans peaceful protest rioting looting peaceful protest burn business free speech summer long joe biden talk peaceful protester remember american people literally watch business community burn ground mike pence truth joe biden double policy lead violence american city mean start withdraw support protect serve embolden harm family community joe biden justify say word america systemically racist kamala harris police officer country quote implicit bias minority mike pence joe biden ask support cut funding law enforcement say yes absolutely kamala harris recently praise mayor los angeles cut million budget lapd mike pence let promise year president donald trump white house go defund police go blue single day mike pence blue blue blue blue mike pence know choose support law enforcement support africanamerican neighbor friend minority family family city half year go year mike pence president invest strong support people like john moolenaar support funding cop program allow hiring additional police officer violence break city launch operation legend city country work state local law enforcement arrest violent offender city start police street mike pence time support law enforcement proud vicepresident president see low unemployment record africanamerican high funding historically black college university history create opportunity zone major city pass criminal justice reform fight educational choice family america mike pence president prove stand law enforcement stand minority family promise go go law order city state nation american race creed color help god mike pence stand rule law stand strong law enforcement stand cherished liberty know joe biden vice president see steady assault freedom religion american people administrative act administration actually haul group catholic nun federal court force compromise faith live mandate obamacare president donald trump restore conscience right doctor nurse religious charity president trump end assault little sister poor mike pence value faith proud vice president president stand apology sanctity human life joe biden kamala harris support taxpayer funding abortion way moment birth president trump reinstate mexico city policy deny federal dollar program promote abortion world sign bill give state right defund plan parenthood mike pence donald trump prolife president american history go stand right life year mike pence year year mike pence year think progress strong support ally congress rebuild military revive economy stand law order liberty life want heart possible strong consistent support michigan republican delegation congress mike pence right reelect president donald trump year right send john james united states senate need send congressman john moolenaar eric esshaki new republican majority house representative retire nancy pelosi mike pence mean look accomplish year way describe america great tell american coronavirus strike china document case community spread country president donald trump american president suspend travel china second large economy world mike pence joe biden say xenophobic say hysterical actually write january suspend travel country quote ake thing bad tell having lead white house coronavirus task force month president trump action suspend travel china save untold american life buy invaluable time stand large national mobilization world war ii mike pence surge million medical supply incredible doctor nurse michigan america develop new therapeutic literally save life speak end year go ten million dose safe effective coronavirus vaccine american people leadership look like leadership president donald trump go provide michigan need mike pence moment get eric esshaki spend career health care appreciation nurse doctor responder family pandemic hero mike pence go make sure health care provider support need impact coronavirus level health care want family member slow spread protect vulnerable save life mike pence joe biden talk shut economy open america know amazing think month america lose million job height pandemic strong foundation pour year strong economy unprecedented support congressman moolenaar provide family business midst pandemic see million people work include people right michigan open america open america school announce send million test school nurse america go sure kid classroom belong safe sound open school classroom thank president donald trump big football michigan state go gridiron wolverine field big house come saturday mike pence know great today appreciate come expect know choice election clear stake high stand rain trudge muddy field vicepresident michigan love america mike pence love penny love penny love pence mike pence truth look agenda high taxis open border socialize medicine green new deal defunde police pack court clear joe biden trojan horse radical left mike pence biden say democracy ballot think economic recovery think law order ballot believe thing foundational country fundamental nation know election think say go america conservative liberal america republican democrat red blue think choice election america remain america go chart course build high ideal nation freedom patriotism liberty justice go let joe biden kamala harris radical left nation path socialism american decline mike pence mike pence path socialism american decline freedom ideal america great need decide right right joe biden president united states go reelect president donald trump year mike pence michigan mike pence president say get work accomplish year president nation global pandemic president trump call good start right mean getting start year go distribute vaccine go defeat virus go maintain america unrivaled military ensure peace american strength go america manufacture super power world end reliance china go uphold religious liberty freedom speech right bear arm go hire police go ban sanctuary city go stop indoctrination kid restore patriotic education america school president say mount rushmore go teach child love country honor history respect great american flag mike pence woman tell know president pick phone call ask join ticket say yes heartbeat see people michigan see see vision ground high american ideal see leadership quality determination country great forget night call tip group americans consider running mate go phone pray way wife stand right phone rang pick phone hear familiar voice say mike go great know right great single day go great year serve shoulder shoulder year people think little bit different actually get close friend want tell camera kleig light day promise day go overwhelming opposition democrats ally national medium day go president trump get fight promise people michigan turn fight mike pence get couple thing get ask head indiana go hoosi state today go go ask thing need karen go tomorrow morning vote michigan vote reelect president donald trump mike pence mean hear early voting start michigan maybe waterford township clerk office civic center drive waterford open vote president donald trump remember friend let friend vote bring family member bring coworker vote reelect president year mike pence vote friend want spend remaining moment day tell people walk muddy field tell accomplish year america strong prosperous strengthen constitutional foundation liberty nation stand law order tell accomplish tell choice face airport day stand rain mike show talk hour accomplish year mike pence believe michigan history people talk mean remember pundit poll write right people michigan know different know strong prosperous talk neighbor friend worship work need mike pence forget election night campaign headquarters new york city stand right president stand wife kid trump fan look big tv screen wall time state come like punch shoulder south carolina boom say yeah yeah say indiana come boom right tell michigan come think go knock ground get tell story michigan need year president donald trump white house mike pence want feel know need remember vote friend tell somebody day election mike pence travel country year come great conclusion believe believe life go convinced america freedomlove nation america nation faith travel land sweet word president hear pray hear lot mike pence mind bend knee bow head time time good time day encourage pray confidence claim ancient word americans clung challenging time possibly imagine americans clear forest settle state americans fight war endure great challenge nation ancient word people call humble pray turn like long story history nation hear heaven heal land nation god indivisible liberty justice pray america pray american people difference difference leave today renew confidence grateful support grateful attendance today confident day away great victory michigan america know need election day go michigan america strong safe go michigan america prosperous possibly imagine go michigan america united john james united states senate congressman john molinar eric esshaki new republican majority house president trump white house year god help america great mike pence god bless god bless america let michigan transcribe content try rev save time transcribe captioning subtitle copyright disclaimer title usc section allowance fair use purpose criticism comment news reporting teaching scholarship research fair use permit copyright statute infringe weekly digest week important transcript inbox news news

Ep. 2030 - DNC NIGHT #1: Joe Biden’s Big Funeral Send-Off! Published: 8/20/2024 Mike Tarico here with some of the 2024 team USA athletes. What's your message for the team of tomorrow To young athletes? Never forget why you started doing it in the first place. You have To pursue something that you're passionate about, Win, lose, or draw. I'm always gonna be the one having a smile on my face, finding Joy and why you do it keeps you doing it. Be authentic, be you, and have fun. Joy is powering team USA during the Olympic and Paralympic games. Comcast is proud to be bringing that inspiration home for the team of tomorrow. Well, listen, I know you didn't stay up to watch Joe Biden last night. Joe Biden didn't stay up to watch Joe Biden last night, but you know, who did election wire live every night during the D nnc 7:45 PM Central time tonight, they'll be joined by Carolyn Downey and Steven L. Miller to analyze all the goings on at the Democratic National Convention. So last night was Joe Biden's funeral, and it had to be awkward for him. Many people have had the fantasy over the course of their lifetime that they would be present and sort of alive observing their own funeral. They would get to see all the orations about what a wonderful person they were. Very few people get to actually give their own eulogy at their own funeral. And Joe Biden did that last night. The overriding feeling that you get from watching the DNC is these people are so pathetically fake. It is so fake. So last night was supposed to be a unifying tribute night to Joe Biden as they shuffle him off his moral coil. And in fact, Joe Biden showed up to give a speech, and then they literally put him on a plane and they shoved him off. They said, get the hell out of here. And they sent him to California. Now remember, that guy is still the president until January, so I have no idea who's running the country. You have no idea who's running the country apparently. It simply doesn't matter who's running the country at this point. But the idea was that he was gonna speak in prime time. They were gonna give him his gold watch. They were gonna give him big round of applause for his wondrous leadership after having stabbed his candidacy to death and left it bleeding out on the floor. They were going to talk about what a wonderful president he had been. It would be a night of warm feelings and hot flowing tears, and it would just be an emotional, resonant, incredible night when he quote unquote passed the torch. And what it actually was, what it actually was, was the sad spectacle of an old man being shoved off a cliff and being forced to celebrate as he himself was shoved off the cliff. It's like the main character in darkness at noon sitting there in the cell after having confessed to his crimes on behalf of the Communist Party. That is basically what happened to Joe Biden last night. He had to embrace the party at last and feel the joy, and then they packed him off into an icebox and they shipped him off by train to California where he is on vacation again. But it is again, that feeling of fakery that pervades this entire enterprise. Understand, the American people are unhappy with the direction of the country right now. There's not a single poll in America that shows fewer than two thirds of Americans thinking America is moving in the wrong direction. Democrats are in charge of the government. They're in charge of the White House. They're in charge of the Senate. So if you believe that the country is moving in the wrong direction and two thirds of you do, maybe you might want to consider why that is. And so when you have a country that is very unhappy about the economy, very unhappy about our foreign policy, very unhappy about the elitism of the critical race theory Democrats, the intersectional Democrats, the people who tell you a boy can be a girl and vice versa, and simultaneously tell you that if you speak differently, you ought to be ousted from public life. If you're feeling bad about any of that stuff, does it work that they are slapping a Kamala Harris happy face sticker on this bag of crap? That is their policy proposals. Does that make you feel any better? The entire thing is phony. The entire thing is fake from soup to nuts. Last night, it was all phony. It was all fake up to and including Joe Biden's speech. At the very end, the entire celebration was supposed to culminate in Joe Biden, giving a warm speech about Kamala Harris and about how he was a heroic figure. Cincinnatus retiring to his farm, George Washington giving up command and all of the rest of this, and instead they shoved him off beyond prime time. You understand? He started speaking last night at 11:30 PM 11:30 PM He started speaking last night. It was really, really, really late. He spoke for 48 minutes beginning at 11:30 PM And that's in the Battleground states, right? That's in Michigan, that's in Pennsylvania, that's in Georgia. All those states are on Eastern time. So it was a fitting culmination. The Democrats tried to pretend that it was about Joe Biden, and it really wasn't. It was about shoving Joe Biden off the cliff as fast as possible. It's not me saying that that's Politico, which is a left wing organization saying that quote, as the Democratic National Convention Program rolled on and on and on last night, we got a text midway through from a veteran Democrat who'd been involved in many previous conventions. I think these guys have a big scheduling problem. This person told us, noting that at the rate things were going, president Biden would not address the crowd until well after 11:00 PM Eastern. So they realize the universe runs on East Coast time. The answer is they absolutely do. It felt a little too on the nose at Huffington Post, Igor Boic with an unpopular president first forced out of office by party bosses. He wasn't forced, forced out of office. He was forced out the nomination. If they had forced him out of office, that might've made some sense. The terrible president, they kept him in office. They kept his moldering corpse in the White House in the Oval Office. They could wheel him around weak Weekended Bernie style into meetings, and they could manipulate his face hole into making sound and then roll him back into his coffin every so often, all the way until January. But they forced him out of his nomination and then forced him to deliver his big self eulogy. His big, I give it up for the party speech after prime time when everyone was already asleep. Paul Gu and Nate Silver said, quote, you've gotta be pretty naive to think the prolonged DNC tonight is for any reason other than diminishing biden's visibility. That, of course, is exactly right. That is exactly right. And we'll get to Joe Biden's speech, which was in fact a complete debacle. It was a debacle. It was him battling the teleprompter. It was him telling lie after lie, it was the worst of Joe Biden, which is the reason they got rid of him. Now, understand, it doesn't matter what the face of the clock says at the Democratic Party. It just matters what the machinery, the workings of the clock are. They switched out the face of the clock for a different face of the clock. It is the same exact machinery underneath Joe. Biden was always a machine politician. Kamala Harris is a machine politician. He can swap out the face, doesn't matter. It's the same exact machine, but you're supposed to feel the fakery. So the question is, how gullible are you? That is the question for 2024. Just how gullible are you? Are you gonna be taken in by all of the sloganeering about Donald Trump being a threat to democracy? And how Donald Trump is, is such a deep and abiding and terrible figure in American public life that you can just keep going with these crappy policies that have wrecked America. Fiscally are setting us on a path to economic ruin, have set the world on fire in terms of foreign policy, have opened the door to Russia and to China and to Iran. Are are you that gullible? Are you gullible enough to believe what they are selling? Because it is a sales pitch and it is a bad sales pitch at that. So the question of 2024, how gullible are you? Well, if you're not that gullible, maybe you should change your cell phone service. There's only one cell phone company that gives you free premium access to the media you actually care about. It's PureTalk. This might be the best offer PureTalk has ever come out with. Listen to this. When you switch your cell phone service to PureTalk on a qualifying plan, you'll get a free one year Insider subscription to Daily Wire Plus. That's right. Take advantage of unlimited talk, unlimited text, 15 gigs of data and mobile hotspot on America's most dependable 5G network for just 35 5 bucks a month. And you'll get one year free of Daily Wire Plus, which is a great deal. The Daily Wire Plus Insider plan gets you access to our entire library of movies, series and documentaries, including Lady Ballers. What is a Woman, Mr. Bertram run, hide, fight and more. Plus, you get all our daily shows uncensored and ad free. The only way you can get this special offer is by going to PureTalk dot com slash shapiro. I've been telling you to stop over paying for your cell phone plan for a very long time. If you haven't yet made the switch to PureTalk, now would be the time. Go to PureTalk dot com slash shapiro today, switch to a qualifying plan. Get one year free of Daily Wire Plus Insider. Again, that's PureTalk dot com slash Shapiro today. Don't be as gullible as all those people at the DNC last night. Go to PureTalk dot com slash shapiro. The sales pitch, of course, begins with fake joy. Joy, judge. Joy, joy, joy. And it really is like renin stimpy, happy, happy, joy, joy. They like that. Got got the brain machine on you forcing you to believe. And there's something peculiarly sinister about people telling you that there's just joy everywhere. It's just joy. It's joy. You feel the joy. Feel the joy. It is one thing to say, vote for our candidate, our candidates better than the other candidate. It's another thing to say there's a lot of democratic enthusiasm for their candidate because now they're excited that Joe Biden is out. It is another thing entirely to pretend that Kamala Harris, one of the most scripted, manufactured non-genuine politicians in American history, is a representative of joy that the awful awkward cackle that she unleashes upon being asked a difficult question. By the way, we are now on Wait for it. Wait for it. Day 31 of her answering zero difficult questions, day 31, a full month in days. You know, every time she asked a tough question, she unleashes the cackle. We're supposed to believe that that cackle is not a cackle. It is not an awkward laugh. All it really is, is an expression of her inner child. She, like Peter Pan, is youth. She's joy. She has a little bird breaking free from the egg. That is who Kamala Harris really is. And she's not just joy. You should feel the joy. And if you don't feel the joy, it's 'cause you're bad. It's 'cause you're mean. It's 'cause you're cruel. Maybe a little racist. That's why you don't feel the joy. Do you feel the joy yet? Do you feel it? Do you feel it? Do you feel it? That's that is the Democratic Party platform at this point. Here is Joy Reed certainly one of the least joyous people in American public life, suggesting that she just, she's in the convention room and she feels the joy. Nicole Wallace has this smile plastered on as though she fell into the toxic waste vat that the Joker fell into. And, and here are these two representatives of sheer unadulterated joy, talking about the joy that is Kamala Harris. I'm gonna sum up what I have felt since we landed Nicole in this wonderful, beautiful city, exuberance, joy. Thank God I I have not. And we were just talking about this a little while ago. I have not seen so many Democrats laugh, smile, oh, sing. I mean, there is a song in the air. I can hear me behind me, but there's like a little bit of music playing. Oh man. People are literally dancing to the tunes in their own head, literally dancing. I think Democrats today, they feel a kind of joy, joy of say it over a kind of Belief Joy that I personally have not seen in what? Like eight years. Oh my God, so much, so much joy. Insane levels of joy. Do you feel the joy you, if you don't feel the joy right now? Love it. Live it. Be the joy God. Do feel the joy? Feel it. Do you feel it? Feel the joy. Feel it, feel it. Feel the joy is joyous. You feel it. This is their campaign. Now. It feels a little fake, feels a little forced. It's not just Joy Reed, of course, it's Kamala Harris who trotted out on night one. It's kind of unusual. She showed up at the very beginning of the convention to get a big round of applause after having won zero primary votes ever, after having taken her boss and shoved him out a third story window like Vladimir Putin here. She was showing up to talk about how she sees the beauty of the nation. Oh my. Oh wow. Do you feel the joy? Do you feel it? Do you feel the joy? Because she can slogan it up a little more. She can give you some more pap if you'd like. Here we go. I see the beauty About Great nation on The nasal Style. People from every corner of our country, oh, every hands and every walk of life are here united by our shared vision for the future of our country. And this November we will come together and declare with one voice as one people, we are moving forward. We are moving forward, not back. Okay? Honestly, there are many irritating slogans in American politics. We are moving forward is really stupid. It's really irritating. How precisely would you move back? How do you have a time machine? How forward to the future? It's Kodo and Kang. Now we will go forward into the future. Spiraling upward, never downward. And what if you buy this? You are stupid. I'm not saying if you vote for Kamala Harris, you're stupid. Maybe you have reasons of your own. If you buy this crap, if you pretend it's about the joy and the moving of the forward and all of this kind of stuff, it's because you are a rube. You're a sucker, and they're playing you like a fiddle question. How stupid do you have to be? Do not see through all this. Also, you have to be kind of dumb to not diversify between the stock markets, mood swings and unemployment numbers that make you wanna pull your hair out. We are on some kind of weird financial rollercoaster here. And then there's the national debt. Well, how can you protect your hard earned money from this economic circus? I've been telling you about Masterworks for years now. Now you might be saying, Ben, are you seriously talking about art investing? I am. That is the thing I'm doing here is why Bluechip, Contemporary Art has had almost zero correlation with the stock market for the last 28 years while it's experiencing a slowdown at the moment. Long term, the price appreciation has actually outpaced the s and PI know, kind of shocking, right? Look, I've been talking about Masterworks for years because they keep delivering results. They've had 23 successful exits with over $60 million in net proceeds. Going back to investors. You don't need to be a bere wearing espresso sipping art coner to get in on this. You don't even need to invest millions of dollars. Thousands of my listeners have already jumped on board. So here's what you should do. Go to masterworks.com/ben, that's masterworks.com/ben, or just scan that QR code on your screen if you're watching. Past results are not indicative of future performance. And do not include unsold works. All investing involves risks. I'm not an investor with masterworks. See, important regulation a [email protected] slash cd. How dumb do you have to be? Not to be able to see through this? Truly, truly, it's astonishing if you can't see through this kind of stuff. Meanwhile, you have Tim Walls, who is, man Tim Walls is a phony. My goodness. Him, he knows he's on camera. And so he's bouncing around out there like he's taking a bunch of crystal meth or something. He's bouncing around. He's so excited to be there. Tim Walls ho ho. He's like a squirrel out there, just, just looking around. Watch this. It's, it's a, oh my God, these people. These people, I can't. The most unusual circumstances, oh, where are we looking in residential history? Hold on, hold On. Governor, his wife Look watching proceedings from the floor out the floor at the convention right now. Oh my gosh. Can't see. Can't see. I don't understand. Is he a 4-year-old child? And there's a six foot person in front of him? Like he's literally only a vice presidential box. Who, who? Who Got these people? And then his crazy, his crazy smile at every available opportunity. It's a little much, guys. It's a little much. Meanwhile, we, we did get some details about Kamala Harris. So for example, we got Eleni Kki, who you've never heard of. She's the California Lieutenant Governor. That's the reason you've never heard of her talking about how she is so friendly with Kamala Harris. And Kamala Harris is, she is the embodiment of joy. In fact, she'll even call you on her birthday and sing to you. 'cause she's just got this song in her heart. If You're lucky enough to be her friend, she calls you on her birthday and sometimes she sings to you. Oh, that sounds awful. That sounds perfectly awful. By the way, who calls other people on their own birthday to sing to them? Is that a thing you do? Seems weird. No, I, I might call you on your birthday to sing to you, but what I call you on my birthday to sing. Imagine picking up that phone. You're like, who? It's Kamala happy birthday to me. Oh my God. But feel the joy. Feel the joy. And if there's one representative of joy in the history of American politics, you know who it is. It's Hillary Clinton. Oh yes. She is here with the joy, a lady for whom smiling looks as painful as the rack. Here she was at the DNC last night. She says, something is happening in America. Something. Something is happening in America. Oh my gosh, what is it? You can feel it. Bill is feeling it. Something we, oh, we're not talking about somebody else And dreamed of for a long time. Oh my gosh. You're feeling it. You're feeling, by the way, it's gotta suck to be Hillary Clinton, right? You lost to Donald Trump and now you're having your first woman president title, possibly stolen by Kamala Harris, whose accomplishments number zero. Again, that's gotta be a little sad if you're Hillary Clinton. But don't worry, she's gonna force the joy because the joy will be enjoyed. Joy is the joy. Here's Hillary telling you about all the joy she feels in the cockles of her tiny heart. Progress is possible, but not guaranteed. We have to fight for it and never, ever give up. There is always a choice. Do we push forward or pull back, come together as we the people or split into us versus them? Yeah. She's not oppositional. That's the choice we face in this election. Joy in unity and joy in unity. And then the mask slips, and then they say what they actually think, which is, this is all about how much they hate Donald Trump and how much they kinda hate the American people. 'cause the American people are a bunch of rubes suckers, bitter clingers. This is what they've thought since the days of Barack Obama, long before the days of a Democratic party, they gave a crap about blue collar workers long over the days of a Democratic party that thought, Hey, maybe people who go to church are generally good people. Those are long over. This is the day of the Raptor Democratic Party. This is the day of the elitist democratic party that cares only about a cadre of elite people and their dependents. This is, this is what the Democratic party has become. They're bitter, they're angry. It has nothing to do with joy in everything to do with revenge on Donald Trump, particularly here is Hillary letting it slip. Here's the mask slipping. She was speaking, of course, and the crowd started chanting, lock him up. Now, typically, Hillary and other Democrats have made a show of pretending that they, they actually don't want Donald Trump locked up Despite. The fact that they have now activated every weapon of the justice system against Donald Trump repeatedly here she was nodding along as they shouted, lock him up. He made his own kind of history. The first person to run for president with 34 felony convictions As Vice president. As vice president. Kamala sat in the situation room There. She's nodding along to lock him up, which is what they really want in the end, isn't it? They don't give a crap about the country or its direction. They want their revenge. They can taste it. It's so sweet. Raphael Warnock, the senator from Georgia, who is only a senator, because Donald Trump idiotically suggested that voters in Georgia not actually go and vote in a Senate race in 2021. Thus making Raphael Warnock a senator rather than say Kelly Loeffler or David Perdue. In any case, Raphael Warnock, he, he made clear what he wants, which is Donald Trump is a plague on the American republic. Remember, Donald Trump was nearly shot in the head like six weeks ago by people who believe this kind of stuff. Here's Raphael Warnock heating up at that temperature. Donald Trump's America is the America of January 6th. People who have no vision traffic in division, he does not know how to lead us. And so he wants to divide US America. Make no mistake, Donald Trump is a plague on the American conscience. He is a press, he is a clear and present threat to the precious covenant. We share with one another. That's what they actually care about. And by the way, the DNC is not hiding the ball. They on a full ad on how Donald Trump was guilty of crimes. And Kamala Harris, well, she's a prosecutor instead of, Hey, the system of justice, the wheels turn slow, but they grind finely. Instead of any of that, it's Kamala Harris is going to personally prosecute Donald Trump and put him in jail. This is what they're here for. This is what they want In the criminal justice system. The people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime, and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. This is the story of Donald Trump his entire life. Trump has believed he's above the law that no one would ever dare hold him accountable. He lies. He rips off workers. He sexually abuses women. And when You're a star, they let you do it. You can do Anything. He cheats in business. He cheated on his wife with a porn star. I Mean, Doug Ock cheated. He says that The American people wouldn't find out during an election, This ran at the DNC Criminal justice system. Ordinary Americans have had the courage to find him accountable. Time and time again, guilty. Guilty, guilty. Donald Trump, guilty on all 34 felony counts. For The first time in history, we have a convicted felon running for president. And to take on this case, we need a president who has spent her life prosecuting perpetrators like Donald Trump. I mean, it's crazy. Tried Overturning. Georgia's free and fair Election. Okay, lemme stop it there. But this is what the campaign's about, right? It's not about the joy, it's about the revenge. That's what they want. They cannot deal with the fact that Donald Trump was ever president. He cannot be president again, and they want revenge. Well, folks, it is not about joy. It's about revenge for these people. And as we'll discuss a little bit later, I mean, honestly, you kinda hope that Joe Biden has a a life insurance policy, which is what you should have a life insurance policy. Policy genius helps you get the life insurance you need fast, so you can get on with your life, you know, before they ship you out to California. As the country's leading online insurance marketplace, PolicyGenius gives you peace of mind knowing if something were to happen to you, your family could cover their expenses while getting back on their feet. With PolicyGenius, you can find life insurance policy starting at just 292 bucks per year for a million dollars in coverage. Some options are 100% online, and let you avoid those unnecessary medical exams. PolicyGenius has licensed award-winning agents and technology that make it easy to compare life insurance quotes from America's top insurers, and then find the lowest price their team of licensed experts is on hand to help you through the process. 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Sure, they're pressing forward with the unionization scheme that actually harms the little guy. Sure, they're pressing forward with a set of tax and spend policies that bankrupt the economy and lead to 40 year highs in inflation. But they are populous. And if you are, if you listen to them, they are the most populous populous ever populist. They care about the American people. Here, for example, is fake populist Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, who's a socialist, who drove some 20,000 jobs out of New York by targeting Amazon, but who has spent her entire career bopping around Brooklyn doing Instagram photos and demonstrating how much she cares about the working people by living in one of the nicer apartments in Washington DC and accomplishing zero things. I see a leader who understands. I see a leader with a real commitment to a better future for working family. It's time to get into rhythm here. Here we go. She's gonna start bopping in a second In Chicago. We have to help her win because we know that Donald Trump would sell this country for a dollar if it meant lining his own pockets at greasing the palms of his Wall Street friends. Oh yeah. Can you feel it? Okay. So I mean, really, some people were very into this, by the way. Some people were like, wow, what an order. What an order. Yeah, like a third grade. I'll give you free candy at recess election. What an order. Come on, bopping around. We're, we're such a country of children if we take this seriously, but apparently there are a lot of children out there. The crowd started chanting a OC because the future of the Democratic party is in fact antisemitic socialism. Thank you Kamala Harris. And for, Oh, good Lord. If this is the future of the country, well then we are screwed beyond all measure. Thank you. Thank you. What a ridiculous party. And what a ridiculous human being. By the way, sad news for a OC that a couple of her compatriots lost in primaries because it turns out many Americans do not actually like this agenda. She'll never win a statewide primary in New York because she's too radical. But the Democratic party base, they love her. They love her. Is she a populist a OC? Is she really? How about Dick Durbin? Senator from Illinois? He a populist, he says that Donald Trump won't have a pay raise for you because of his tax cuts. You know where I noticed that wages have degraded radically under you, under your administration, under the Biden administration and the tutelage of morons, like Dick Durban Want a pay raise. Too bad. The boss just gave himself one so there's nothing left for you. Oh, wow. That has some stirring oratory right there. How about a state senator? As they trotted out for some odd reason, a state senator named Mallory MCM from Michigan to bring out, she's doing now, we're now doing prop comedy. She brought out a watermelon and smashed it like Gallagher. Oh, no, no, no. She'd bring out a giant project 2025 book that doesn't exist in reality. She had her staff manufacture it so she could slam it down on the podium. Problem is, it's bigger than she is. Hello, I'm Michigan State Senator Mallory mcm. And this, this is Project 2025. Oh man. So you got the fake populism. Yeah, the the, these are the people of the common man, right? The, by the way, no one represents the common man worse than Kamala Harris. No one. Kamala Harris is an intersectional elitist. She grew up in Berkeley, the son of two professors. Then she moved to Montreal for her childhood. She has never worked a serious job One day in her life, she hasn't. She worked as a low level DA and then she immediately started sleeping with Willie Brown and elevated her way through California politics. That is her story. And then she was elevated to the vice presidency, obviously, by a president of the United States or presidential candidate who was seeking an intersectional representative, his vp. That's her story. Literally no one has less of a common person experience than Kamala Harris. And she doesn't know about your problems. And she certainly doesn't know about my problems. My problems involve not getting enough sleep or would if I did not use my Helix sleep mattress. Here's the thing, I'm pretty busy all day and I can't keep up with that day if I don't get a good night's sleep. So I really appreciate that Helix Sleep Mattress Helix harnesses years of mattress expertise and offers a truly elevated sleep experience. The Helix Elite Collection includes six different mattress models, each tailored for specific sleep positions and firmness preferences. If you're nervous about buying a mattress online, you really don't have to be. 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I don't, I don't think it's gonna work. And And everybody knows this. The, the Democratic National Convention. This is the party of the common man, right? The common American, like the blue collar American. That's what they say. Well, it's weird then because the Democratic National Convention kicked off with an introduction reminding delegates that the convention was held on land that was forcibly removed from indigenous tribes. Prairie Band, Potawatomi Nation Tribal Council, vice Chairman, Zach Pam, and Tribal Council Secretary Lori Milkier, took the stage at the start of the convention where they welcomed the Democratic Party to their ancestral homelands. Here we are together on our ancestral homelands of the Prairie Band, Potawatomi Nation, and our sister Potawatomi nations. We also honor the spirit of other tribal nations who traveled westward to this beautiful area. Welcome to the 2024 Democratic National Convention. To our homelands. This land has and always will carry enormous importance to its original stewards, our ancestors in our present day communities. And then they talk about how people were forcibly removed from these communities. This is all part of the settler colonialist theory that animates the Democratic Party. The idea being that western civilization is strange and therefore bad, and that all the land that Americans currently live on actually belongs to the indigenous peoples from a couple of thousand years ago. Nevermind that the story of human migration is a story of population movement and tribal warfare and all the rest. The Democratic party starts from the premise that America was wrongly founded. That's what the Democratic National Convention starts from. The premise that Chicago is actually not an American city. It is stolen land from the indigenous. Does that sound like a blue collar pitch to you? How about the the Z NNC platform? So finally, the Democrats have written a platform. Now it's a little awkward, a little awkward 'cause it turns out that the original platform they tried to release was chalk filled with Joe Biden's name talking about his accomplishments. So I guess nobody had time to edit. So they just stuck it out there and they're like, oh, whoops. We, we didn't mean Joe Biden, we meant Kamala Harris, because of course they had to steal the nomination from him, which is what they did. But what exactly is in her new platform? Here are just a few of the promises. Healthcare should be a right in America, not a privilege. So nationalized healthcare, they're talking about fighting to protect and expand the Affordable Care Act. But the reality is what they really want is a public option. They want to expand traditional Medicare coverage to include dental, vision and hearing services. Universal preschool for four year olds guarantee affordable quality childcare to millions of working families for less than $10 a day per child, which is not possible without trillions of dollars in expenditures. America's first full national paid family and medical leave program, they want to essentially put in place universal basic income. They want to double funding to repair and expand active transportation and public transit. There's tons of stuff codifying national abortion protection, spending more on environmental justice and climate change. It is all just the democratic machine. Does any of that sound like that is in touch with the concerns of everyday Americans who can't afford groceries right now? I didn't think so. So we have fake joy, which is actually about revenge. We have fake populism, which is really about intersectional elitist crap, and we have fake courage. So the fake courage was of course, members of the Democratic codery suggesting that they are really courageous for stepping out front. Like for example, the coach of the Golden State Warrior, Steve Kerr. So Steve Kerr is brought out for some odd reason, and he says that speaking outcomes with risks, well, as we'll discuss in a moment, he's not willing to take the actual risks of speaking out in a risky way if you believe that in American public life speaking at the DNC is an actual risk yet. Sure, sure. Steve, I know very well that speaking out about politics these days comes with risks. I can see the shut up and whistle tweets being fired off as we speak, but I knew as soon as I was asked that it was too important as an American citizen not to speak up in an election of this magnitude. Wow, what a, what a brave, courageous fellow that Steve Kerr is. My goodness. I mean, probably so courageous that for example, if he was asked about Chinese human rights abuses and say the NBA had a lot of money riding on its relationship with China, he would probably speak out, wouldn't he? Wouldn't he wouldn't. He Obviously, the big story in the league right now is, you know, Darrell Morris' tweet and everything going on with China. Do you have any thoughts on that situation? Actually, I don't. I mean's a really, it's a really bizarre international story and a lot of us are, you know, don't know what to make of it. So it's, it's something I'm reading about and just like everybody is, but I'm not gonna comment for the Now that's courage. That's courage. By which I mean, what a coward. Seriously, what a, and that is the story of the Democratic Party. Look how courageous we are. We are so courageous. Also, we are gonna run screaming from the pro kamas wing of the Democratic party. So just yesterday, Josh Shapiro, who should have been the vice presidential nominee for the Democrats, there's only one problem, he's a Jew. And they couldn't have that. Ain't no Jews getting on that Democratic party ticket because after all, they got too many people who love Hamas in the Democratic party base. Here. Was Josh Shapiro being a coward and running away from that question? No. How dare you. Kamala Harris never said to me anything about me being a Jew. Yeah, no Bleep Sherlock. You thinks she was gonna come out and say, Hey dude, you're a Jew. No way. That's why he wasn't selected though. So here's Josh Shapiro doing the bidding of the Democratic Party. Of course, coward. Now, let me also be very clear here. anti-Semitism played absolutely no role in my dialogue with the vice President. Absolutely not. Yeah, it is also true that antisemitism is present in our commonwealth, in our country, and in some areas within our party, and we have to stand up and speak out against that. Cool. When, what? Wanna name a name, how about naming a name Josh? Or are you too much of a coward for that? I can Han Omar, Rashida tb. Kamala Harris', entire foreign policy team. She met with the mayor of Dearborn in secret, who's a full scale October 7th celebrator. But Ja j Ja god, the the cowardice, the absolute cowardice of this party. Truthfully, the cowardice. So the protestors were outside. These are the people to whom the Democratic party is kowtowing. They were attacking law enforcement yesterday. They showed up at the DNC as per their predictions. Here were some of the protesters who were attacking law enforcement outside the DNC yesterday. We had people deploy pepper gas toward our officers, throw water on 'em, throw water, bottles, sticks, things of that nature. And they were continuously trying to take down the fence. And our officers responded as professionally as we trained them. Okay, and here are some of the protestors actually breaking through the gates. I don't know. Why do they need a wall? Why, why? Why can't they just have open arms for their own constituents? Why do they need a wall? Walls are bad. Why? That's terrible here. They're breaking through those gates while waving Palestinian flags. The wies for wiess, for kamas over here to confront the police. Of course, when they were done with that, they decided to set up their latest 10 ada. So they set up like a tent city in Chicago. Of course, of course, because why not? They're complete, useless people to whom the Democratic party is kowtowing. Here they are wearing the terrorist headscarves, the Tofias, and the Palestinian flag, and all the rest of them at a local park. Here are some of the anti-Israel protestors calling Jews, pigs. You know, these kind of people, good people as we'll. See, Joe Biden coward extraordinaire actually said that they have a point. You're at the wrong event. I just wanna show that there's, you know, pro Zionists out there. I don't want, you know, Tomala to think that because you guys are the loudest part of the party, that you're the majority because That we're not the majority. I hope not. You think pig races, Zionists are the majority. I mean, I would think supporting one to cheese out of, do you think you think pig Pig racist? Zionists are the majority. I do not consider Myself pig pig racist, Z pig or racist. I'm a proud Zionist. You're a Pi Zionist Pig racist Zionist. This is who the protesters are as we'll see the Democratic party kowtows to these people. So we've got fake joy. That means revenge. You've got fake populism that actually means elitism. And we have fake courage that actually means absolute sheer cowardness. And this is before we get to the fake sacrifice. So the biggest story of the night was the fake sacrifice of Joe Biden, in which they said that he was self-sacrificial, by which they mean they tied him up and threw him on a burning pire. We'll get to that momentarily first. 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Okay, so we had the fake joy that was actually a revenge. And then we had the fake populism that was actually elitism. And then we had the fake courage that is actually cowardice. And finally we got to the main part of the show. And that was the fake sacrifice. Do you understand that Joe Biden is the most self-sacrificial man ever Hold the office of the presidency. I mean, that is a man who has put his life on the line for public service and enriching his family for 50 years and being super duper corrupt and not wanting to leave it. And then they actually actually like shoved him into the back room. They put him in the Al Doll Matilda Chokey in there until he basically cried uncle. And then they said, okay, fine, we'll cath you up if you actually give up the nomination. But it was sacrifice. Lemme tell you, it was sacrifice. So you wonder why they got rid of Joe Biden. One reason is that Joe Biden has no idea what in the hell is going on. Here's a live shot of Joe Biden in the convention hall last night when he first arrived. Not great Bob. This is a live shot of President Joe Biden inside the convention hall. Wow. It must be scary to constantly To get a sense of the room, to look at the crowd as she be. It's kind of randomly staring in a much Fuller capacity tonight. Now the order of the program, as she does her testing This extent, she's looking around. You can just see the grim reaper around it. He's like hiding behind this person, hiding behind that person. And Joe Biden. She's like, my goodness. And so things are going amazing. So Kamala Harris let it off. She said, you know, look at the sacrifice. It's time to pay tribute to the best president in the history of the United States, who I totally shiv directly in the gut and stole his nomination. And now I want him to leave and go to California and sleep it off on a beach until January. 'cause man, that guy's terrible. But he's amazing and sacrificial. He's so amazing and so sacrificial. I'm gonna come out here and we're all gonna pretend that we love this old man. We love that guy. We love him so much. We love him so much, man, I can't wait till he dies. I love him so much. Here's Kamala Harris And I wanna kick us off by celebrating our incredible president, Joe Biden, Who I killed Who'll be speaking later tonight. Joe, thank you for your historic leadership, for your lifetime of service to our nation and for all you will continue to do. We are forever grateful to you all. He'll continue to do well. The time grows short, Joe, it's gotta feel horrible to beat Joe Biden, honestly, like he deserves it. And this is my going theory of politics for the last, I don't know, 15 years, is that everyone in the end gets what they deserve. Everyone gets what they deserve. Hillary Clinton, she ran for 24 years trying to be president of the United States. And then she was, she was touted, she was the person. And then she lost to Donald Trump, a first timer who she had once endorsed for running for president on the Republican side of the aisle. She had exactly what she deserved. Barack Obama, who spent eight long years believing that he was the chosen one, a messianic figure in American politics, and that no one like Donald Trump would ever be president of the United States. And then he had to hand the keys to the White House to Donald Trump, Joe Biden, who spent his entire career only wanting to be loved, only wanting to be feted, only wanting to be celebrated. And now they're shuffling him off and they cannot wait to get rid of him. And he has to sit there and then he has to eulogize himself. Honest to God, it's kind of awful and kind of delicious at the exact same time. So yesterday he was hanging around the DNC and somebody said, are you ready to pass the torch? And let's just say there were some internal struggles going on. Are You ready to pass the court? Yes sir. I'm, I'm, I'm by I am. He means I absolutely am. Not the entire Democratic Party are in on the act. So they're all going to pretend that he gave this up voluntarily. That he wasn't forced to put either his brain or his signature on the piece of paper, which of course is eminently untrue. The donors cut off all the money. Nancy Pelosi went to him and said, we are not going to provide you any level of support in this presidential run. If you continue, Chuck Schumer said the same thing. He was forced out. Everyone knows he was forced out. It is publicly reported that he was forced out. In fact, as we will see, Nancy Pelosi basically admitted he was forced out. But they all are going to lie to you. They're gonna gaslight you. They're going to fib. Because remember, it's about the joy and the unity, the joy and unity of killing the old man. So you can replace him with a fresh face. Here is Chuck Schumer acting as if Joe Biden gave this thing up voluntarily. And man, this is why folks, if you believe these people you deserve whatever comes down the road politically, you deserve whatever comes next. What do you hope to hear from your friend President Joe Biden tonight? Well, what a great patriot. What an amazing Man, great patriot. He always said his number one goal was to stop Donald Trump because of Donald Trump's danger to our democracy. And he actually, when he decided not to run, he showed what a great American he was. And what an unselfish, wonderful man he is. I've known him for 45 years. It didn't surprise me. It didn't surprise you. Are you kidding? You tried to force him out. He was clinging to that cliff by his fingernails, and you were stomping on his hand. You like, oh, what, what a self sacrifice. Ugh. Can you believe the level of sacrifice that it took for us to disembowel him? And then as he was bleeding out, he gave it up. And then we were like, wow, that was an amazing sacrifice. Joe, here's Hillary Clinton doing the same thing last night. He brought dignity, decency, and confidence back to the White House. I like the past tense right there. 'cause he's not politically alive. And he showed what it means to be a true patriot. Thank you Joe Biden for your lifetime of service and leadership. Man, good for Joe Biden. He committed political suicide by shooting himself in the head eight times in the back of the head, and then stabbing himself in the back 27 times. Politically speaking. Wow, what an un what a what an unselfish act of total political, voluntary suicide by both shooting and hanging himself politically. Like really, truly amazing stuff there. God, these people are such liars. They're such liars. They did it right in front of you. They did it right in front of you. This is the OJ Simpson, if I did it, of American politics. Like they're there with the bloody gloves on their hands. Like, well man, Nicole sure committed suicide. It was real awkward to be there. But let me tell you, I mean, sure my hands were on her throat and I was like stabbing her at the time. But let me tell you my, like, it was crazy. It was a crazy suicidal situation. Oh my God. Okay, so finally they trot out the Biden family and the Biden family has to try to make it clear that they did. They, they wanted this, they wanted, they did. They wanted It. It's so bad. They really want, they didn't want this. And this is really pathetic. It's really, really pathetic. So Dr. Joe Biden, the actual president of the United States, she had to go out there and, you know, points for the, for the Communist party level, fey to the party. Truly, it is an amazing thing. As I said earlier in the week, it's 1984 is the very end of the book. And finally, they have learned to love Big Brother. They've finally come into consonance with the will of the party. And that's the important thing. So Joe comes out and she endorses Kamala Harris. Now, very few people in America hate Kamala Harris more than Joe Biden. It's been widely reported. Joe Biden despises Kamala Harris, actually for a good reason. It's like the only thing I agree with. Joe Biden on Joe. Biden thinks that Kamala Harris is terrible because she had suggested that Joe Biden was a racist, and that Joe Biden would've tried to stop her from going to a desegregated school when he was a kid by not endorsing force busing and all this. So Kamala is hated by Joe, but Joe has to go out there and hand the baton to a person. She despises Joe. And I know Kamala, we have seen her courage, her determination, and her leadership up close. Kamala and Tim, you will win. And then she says, you know, the reason why Joe stepped down is 'cause he dug deep into his soul. Oh, is that I I was, I was pretty sure that it was the knife dug deep into his innards. Here we go. And weeks ago when I saw him dig deep into his soul goodness and decide to no longer seek reelection and endorse Kamala Harris. Wow. That's what happened, guys. I mean, sure you watched it happen in real time, but it never happened. It never happened. Okay, so then Ashley Biden, one of Biden's kids comes out. At least they didn't have Hunter speak, that would've been really weird. But they had Ashley come out and speak and say that he's the most consequential leader ever in the history of the American Republic. Yes, in in reverse order of importance, it goes Abraham Lincoln who held the union together, George Washington, who founded the Union, and number two, and coming in at number one is the really, really old guy who won a fluke election, proceeded to blow 40 year inflation into the economy, set the world on fire, and then be forced into retirement by his own party. 'cause he was such a terrible candidate. So consequential here is Ashley Biden. Dad always told me that I was no better than anybody else and nobody was better than me. He taught me that everyone deserves a fair shot and that we shouldn't leave anyone behind. That's what you learn from a fighter who has been underestimated his entire life. When I look at Dad, I see grace, strength, and humility. I see one of the most consequential leaders ever in history. Ever, ever. It's like Winston Churchill and Joe Biden. Listen, it could have been worse. She could have read sections of her diary or something up there. Okay, we're gonna get to Joe Biden's awful speech last night. So he comes on air at 11:30 PM Eastern Time. If they could have pushed him to November 6th, they would have, they were like, we don't want anyone seeing this guy. We don't want him, we don't want him here. We don't want him seen. Which is why immediately afterward, they shoveled him back into the crypt and then took that crypt and shoved it into the belly of Air Force One and shipped him off to California. So finally onto Joe. See we're doing this, I don't know, 45, 47 minutes into this show at this point. But that's nothing because they forced Joe Biden, he start speaking at 11:30 PM Now remember Joe Biden's daily schedule is he is shut down by 8:00 PM So by the time they got to 11:30 PM Joe Biden was physically dead, they had to put him in the back room and take out the shock paddles and made the shock him back into life. And he went out there looking like that. And it was not great, Bob. It was really, really not great. So he comes out and the crowd starts chanting, thank you Joe. And what they mean by thank you, Joe, is thank you so much for leaving. Thank you so much for going away. Here we go. That was my daughter. Yeah, it was. How about your granddaughter? You still don't acknowledge her. So that's, that's, yeah. Thank You. Thank you. Thank you Joe for leaving. Thank you. Thank you for going away Away. He has never been more popular than when he never been more popular than when he gave it up. He's a hysterical person. I I I love that. I do love it. I I love that they're all like, thank you Joe for going away. Thank you Joe for going and dying somewhere. Not here. Get out. It, it's pretty great. It's pretty great by the way. I'm, I'm totally gonna do that at dinner parties. Like, if I want someone to leave, I'm just gonna walk up to em and be like, thank you Bob. Be like, for what? Like for, thank you Bob. Thank you. Bob. Is Alex shoving. It's just amazing. It's just, and it's what he so richly deserves. What a what a corrupt, terrible person. Hey. So in his speech, he suggests democracy has prevailed by democracy has prevailed. He means that he won every single primary vote and then he was shoved out of his nomination for a lady who won zero primary votes, which is how we do democracy, typically is where there's no voting, obviously. And where you're just to plant one candidate for another. Sounds like democracy has triumph, Joe, A grateful heart. Oh, I stand before you now on this August night to report that democracy has prevailed. Yeah. By showing, showing me the door. By Democracy, we love it. Democracy has delivered. No one voted for Hama. Democracy must be preserved. And then he started rehashing his terrible Philadelphia speech in which he declared that half the country were traitors to the country. Then he started bragging about his record and he was like, we did an amazing job. Which is why You can't wait to open this trap door underneath me and feed me the crocodiles. Ah, I made a commitment to you that I be a president for all Americans. Yeah. Fail Whether you voted for me or not. We have done that. Studies show the major bills we have passed, actually delivered more to red states than blue because the job of the president is delivered to all of America. Okay? It'll be okay too. 'cause of you, and I'm not exaggerating, because of you, we've had one of the most extraordinary four years of progress ever. Period. Well, that's why you are going to lose to Donald Trump until they legitimately offed you. Okay? But it wouldn't be a complete Joe Biden speech without recapitulating. The very fine people hoax. Okay? This has been debunked now by everyone including Snopes. This lie that Donald Trump said back in 2017 that there were very fine people not on both sides of the Confederate statue controversy. Very fine people who are white supremacists. Donald Trump never said that. He condemned the neo-Nazis. He condemned the white supremacists. They've been running on this crap ever since. But what's amazing about this particular speech is that Joe Biden recapitulates the very fine people hoax, and in almost the next breath, he then says that the neo-Nazi pro kamas outside have a great point. The anti-Semite, they're inside the house they're calling from within the Democratic party house here, here is, here is here's Joe Biden once again doing the very fine people hoax. Senator was asked what he thought had happened. Donald Trump said, and I quote, there are very fine people on both sides. My God, Mar, that's what he said. He's lying. That is not what he said. That Is what he said and what he meant. He, he's, he's a liar. It's not true. But you know who just said that? There are very fine people on both sides. Joe Biden, and here he's talking about the terrorist group, Hamas. And he's talking about the Israelis. He's talking about the people who are setting up 10 to Faah outside the convention center and calling for Hamas and Hezbollah actual terrorist groups to win, and who are calling Jews, pigs. Those people have a point, says Joe Biden. By the way, this was not in his script. It was not in his script. He literally went off script to say this Few days ago. I put forward a proposal that brought us closer to doing that than we've done since October 7th. We're working around the clock, my Secretary of State to prevent a wider war and reunite hostages to their families and surge humanitarian health and food assistance into Gaza now to, in the civilian suffering of the Palestinian people. And finally, finally, finally deliver a cease firing in this war, Pounding the podium end this war. Kamas is rejecting the cease fire. Kamas is stealing the humanitarian aid, but he has to please the kamas. Those pro those protestors out in the street. They have a point. A lot of innocent people are being killed. And both sides, What a trashy human being, truly trashy. At no point does he say, and the Palestinians who are being killed. That's because Hamas launched the worst terror attack on Jews since World War II refuses to surrender and is currently holding babies hostage. You wanna talk about somebody who does a very fine people on both sides. You Joe Biden because his party is filled with either morally corrupt human beings or cowards, or both truly pathetic stuff. He spoke for 48 minutes last night, just kept going and going. The ongoing battle of Joe Biden with the teleprompter that continued, he committed last night to strengthening illegal immigration, which is exciting. Kalin, I are committed to strengthening legal immigration. I, I'm, I'm glad that he's ready to strengthen illegal immigration. That's great. So he went on and on and on and on. He broke after midnight. It was quite terrible. And then he left out because Democrats don't want to see him ever again. Ever, ever again. Now he's still the sitting president of the United States. That's the part that's hilarious. Somebody should ask Kamala Harris why she thinks that Joe Biden is fit to be president of the United States. She is the vice president of the United States. She could invoke the 25th Amendment at any time. She could take over his office. She will not do so. Why does she believe that the protestors have a very fine point? What does she believe? No one's ever gonna ask her that question. We're on day 31 of nobody asking her that question. But again, it's all lies top to bottom. Thoroughgoing lies, lies and lies and more lies. And it was perfectly obvious to anyone who has half a brain. The whole, he's a self-sacrificial man, just leaving on his own time. It, it's a lie. It's not true. He's not leaving because he wants to leave. He's leaving because he was forced out is point. Chris Wallace made correctly last night. The word that everybody is using to describe tonight is bittersweet. It's just bitter. The fact of the matter, I'm not saying Joe, Biden is bitter, but you know, it's like you've been thrown out a window and as you're falling, you go, gee, it's nice out here. No, he got thrown out of, of a window and, and basically he was forced, you know, there's gonna be a lot of talk tonight about how generous it was of him to, and, and, and selfless of him. He was basically forced out by Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. That is right. Nancy Pelosi basically admitted as much last night. She was on CNN. And she's like, well, I mean, I didn't force him out, but I kind of forced him out kinda a little bit. But he's very historic, very, very historic. And that's why, why he had to die. Have you talked to him? Is my Only question. I think what I have to do, right? He made the decision for the country. My concern was not about the president, it was about his campaign. Hmm. She forced him out. Oh, how sad. Oh, how sad. Okay, so Joe, Biden gets what he deserves. He gets shoved off the stage unceremoniously. But the bigger story is the lies and the lies are gonna continue all this week. They're gonna continue all this week and for the rest of the campaign. So are you dumb enough to believe them? Or are you going to see through the foe joy and actually take a look at what is happening in the world? At some point, perhaps it might behoove people to think, what would a Kamala Harris presidency look like? That seems to me the most important question in this election cycle already coming up. We'll get into a quick preview of what's happening night two of the awful DNC. If you're not a member, become member. Use Coach Shapiro. Checkout for two months for Ann, all annual plans. Click that link in the description and join us. Republicans are Nazis. You cannot separate yourselves from the bad white. Those Growing up, I never thought much about race. Never really seemed to matter that much. At least not to me. Am, I, Racist. I would really appreciate it if you left. I'm trying to learn. I'm on this journey. I'm gonna sort this out. I need to go deeper. Undercover, racist. Joining us now is Matt certified DEI expert. Here's my certifications. And what you're doing is you're stretching out of your whiteness. Listen, more for you in this field, is America inherently racist? The word inherent is challenging there. I wanna rename the George Washington Monument to the George Floyd Monument. America is racist to its bones. So inherently, yes, This country is a piece of White folks. Trash white supremacy, white woman, white boy. Is there a black person around or black person right here? Does he not exist? They don't say I'm racist. Hi Robin. Hi. What's your name? I'm Matt. Just had to ask who you are because you have to be careful. Never be too careful. They gonna sell you racist. Buy your tickets now in theater. September 13th rated PG 13. I am one of many Americans who bought a gun within the last year. Well, I get to the range as much as I can. I usually go with my wife and sometimes we put it off because the guns are really loud for her and sometimes the recoil is a lot for her. And sometimes the recoil can be uncomfortable. Fortunately, this doesn't have to be the case. There's a single accessory that will make going to the range a lot more enjoyable. Silencers make shooting significantly quieter and cut out a lot of that recoil and concussion. But obtaining a silencer can be a pain in the neck. There's a ton of paperwork and red tape involved. Fortunately, my friends over at Silencer Shop are here to help. They make getting silencers super simple. Silencer Shop has helped more American gun owners get suppressors than anyone else because they make the process so much easier than anyone else. 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absolutely feel little nose huffington post igor boic unpopular president force office party boss not force force office force nomination force office ve sense terrible president keep office keep moldering corpse white house oval office wheel weak weekend bernie style meeting manipulate face hole make sound roll coffin way january force nomination force deliver big self eulogy big party speech prime time asleep paul gu nate silver say quote ve get to pretty naive think prolong dnc tonight reason diminish biden visibility course exactly right exactly right joe biden speech fact complete debacle debacle battle teleprompter tell lie lie bad joe biden reason get rid understand not matter face clock say democratic party matter machinery working clock switch face clock different face clock exact machinery underneath joe biden machine politician kamala harris machine politician swap face not matter exact machine suppose feel fakery question gullible question gullible go to take sloganeering donald trump threat democracy donald trump deep abiding terrible figure american public life go crappy policy wreck america fiscally set path economic ruin set world fire term foreign policy open door russia china iran gullible gullible believe sell sale pitch bad sale pitch question gullible gullible maybe change cell phone service s cell phone company give free premium access medium actually care puretalk good offer puretalk come listen switch cell phone service puretalk qualifying plan ll free year insider subscription daily wire plus s right advantage unlimited talk unlimited text gig datum mobile hotspot america dependable g network buck month ll year free daily wire plus great deal daily wire plus insider plan get access entire library movie series documentary include lady baller woman mr bertram run hide fight plus daily show uncensored ad free way special offer go puretalk dot com slash shapiro ve tell stop pay cell phone plan long time not switch puretalk time puretalk dot com slash shapiro today switch qualifying plan year free daily wire plus insider s puretalk dot com slash shapiro today not gullible people dnc night puretalk dot com slash shapiro sale pitch course begin fake joy joy judge joy joy joy like renin stimpy happy happy joy joy like get get brain machine force believe s peculiarly sinister people tell s joy joy joy feel joy feel joy thing vote candidate candidate well candidate thing s lot democratic enthusiasm candidate excited joe biden thing entirely pretend kamala harris scripted manufacture nongenuine politician american history representative joy awful awkward cackle unleash ask difficult question way wait wait day answer zero difficult question day month day know time ask tough question unleash cackle suppose believe cackle cackle awkward laugh expression inner child like peter pan youth s joy little bird break free egg kamala harris s joy feel joy not feel joy cause bad cause mean cause cruel maybe little racist s not feel joy feel joy feel feel feel s democratic party platform point joy reed certainly joyous people american public life suggest s convention room feel joy nicole wallace smile plaster fall toxic waste vat joker fall representative sheer unadulterated joy talk joy kamala harris m go to sum feel land nicole wonderful beautiful city exuberance joy thank god talk little ago see democrats laugh smile oh sing mean song air hear s like little bit music play oh man people literally dance tune head literally dance think democrats today feel kind joy joy kind belief joy personally see like year oh god joy insane level joy feel joy not feel joy right love live joy god feel joy feel feel feel joy feel feel feel joy joyous feel campaign feel little fake feel little force joy reed course kamala harris trot night kind unusual show beginning convention big round applause having win zero primary vote having take boss shove story window like vladimir putin show talk see beauty nation oh oh wow feel joy feel feel joy slogan little pap d like beauty great nation nasal style people corner country oh hand walk life unite share vision future country november come declare voice people move forward move forward okay honestly irritate slogan american politic move forward stupid irritate precisely time machine forward future kodo kang forward future spiral upward downward buy stupid m say vote kamala harris stupid maybe reason buy crap pretend joy moving forward kind stuff rube sucker play like fiddle question stupid kind dumb diversify stock market mood swing unemployment number wanna pull hair kind weird financial rollercoaster s national debt protect hard earn money economic circus ve tell masterwork year say ben seriously talk art invest thing m bluechip contemporary art zero correlation stock market year experience slowdown moment long term price appreciation actually outpace s pi know kind shocking right look ve talk masterwork year deliver result ve successful exit million net proceed go investor not need bere wear espresso sip art coner not need invest million dollar thousand listener jump board here masterworkscomben s masterworkscomben scan qr code screen watch past result indicative future performance include unsold work investing involve risk m investor masterwork important regulation disclosuresmasterworkscom slash cd dumb able truly truly astonishing not kind stuff tim wall man tim wall phony goodness know s camera s bounce like s take bunch crystal meth s bounce s excited tim wall ho ho s like squirrel look watch oh god people people not unusual circumstance oh look residential history hold hold governor wife look watch proceeding floor floor convention right oh gosh not not not understand child s foot person like s literally vice presidential box get people crazy crazy smile available opportunity little guy little detail kamala harris example get eleni kki ve hear s california lieutenant governor s reason ve hear talk friendly kamala harris kamala harris embodiment joy fact shell birthday sing cause s get song heart lucky friend call birthday sing oh sound awful sound perfectly awful way call people birthday sing thing weird birthday sing birthday sing imagine pick phone like kamala happy birthday oh god feel joy feel joy s representative joy history american politic know hillary clinton oh yes joy lady smile look painful rack dnc night say happen america happen america oh gosh feel bill feel oh talk somebody dream long time oh gosh feel feel way get to suck hillary clinton right lose donald trump have woman president title possibly steal kamala harris accomplishment number zero s get to little sad hillary clinton not worry s go to force joy joy enjoy joy joy here hillary tell joy feel cockle tiny heart progress possible guarantee fight choice push forward pull come people split versus yeah s oppositional s choice face election joy unity joy unity mask slip actually think hate donald trump kinda hate american people cause american people bunch rube sucker bitter clinger ve think day barack obama long day democratic party give crap blue collar worker long day democratic party think hey maybe people church generally good people long day raptor democratic party day elitist democratic party care cadre elite people dependent democratic party bitter angry joy revenge donald trump particularly hillary let slip here mask slip speak course crowd start chant lock typically hillary democrats pretend actually not want donald trump lock despite fact activate weapon justice system donald trump repeatedly nod shout lock kind history person run president felony conviction vice president vice president kamala sit situation room s nod lock want end not not crap country direction want revenge taste sweet raphael warnock senator georgia senator donald trump idiotically suggest voter georgia actually vote senate race make raphael warnock senator kelly loeffler david perdue case raphael warnock clear want donald trump plague american republic remember donald trump nearly shoot head like week ago people believe kind stuff here raphael warnock heat temperature donald trumps america america january people vision traffic division know lead want divide america mistake donald trump plague american conscience press clear present threat precious covenant share s actually care way dnc hide ball ad donald trump guilty crime kamala harris s prosecutor instead hey system justice wheel turn slow grind finely instead kamala harris go personally prosecute donald trump jail want criminal justice system people represent separate equally important group police investigate crime district attorney prosecute offender story donald trump entire life trump believe s law dare hold accountable lie rip worker sexually abuse woman star let cheat business cheat wife porn star mean doug ock cheat say american people not find election run dnc criminal justice system ordinary americans courage find accountable time time guilty guilty guilty donald trump guilty felony count time history convict felon run president case need president spend life prosecute perpetrator like donald trump mean crazy try overturn georgia free fair election okay lemme stop campaign right joy revenge s want deal fact donald trump president president want revenge folk joy revenge people discuss little bit later mean honestly kinda hope joe biden life insurance policy life insurance policy policy genius help life insurance need fast life know ship california country lead online insurance marketplace policygenius give peace mind know happen family cover expense get foot policygenius find life insurance policy start buck year million dollar coverage option online let avoid unnecessary medical exam policygenius license awardwinne agent technology easy compare life insurance quote americas insurer find low price team licensed expert hand help process life insurance policy work offer protection family need follow leave job policygenius work insurance company mean not incentive recommend insurer not life insurance easy policygenius head policygeniuscomshapiro click link description free life insurance quote save s policygeniuscomshapiro policygeniuscomshapiro start fake joy propose actually want bloody minded revenge hey s piece fake puzzle fake populism democrats try pretend party blue collar worker sure facilitate mass illegal immigration undercut wage base sure press forward unionization scheme actually harm little guy sure press forward set tax spend policy bankrupt economy lead year high inflation populous listen populous populous populist care american people example fake populist alexandra ocasiocortez s socialist drive job new york target amazon spend entire career bop brooklyn instagram photo demonstrate care work people live nice apartment washington dc accomplish zero thing leader understand leader real commitment well future work family time rhythm s go to start bop second chicago help win know donald trump sell country dollar mean line pocket grease palm wall street friend oh yeah feel okay mean people way people like wow order order yeah like grade ill free candy recess election order come bop country child seriously apparently lot child crowd start chant oc future democratic party fact antisemitic socialism thank kamala harris oh good lord future country screw measure thank thank ridiculous party ridiculous human way sad news oc couple compatriot lose primary turn americans actually like agenda shell win statewide primary new york s radical democratic party base love love populist oc dick durbin senator illinois populist say donald trump will not pay raise tax cut know notice wage degrade radically administration biden administration tutelage moron like dick durban want pay raise bad boss give s leave oh wow stirring oratory right state senator trot odd reason state senator name mallory mcm michigan bring s prop comedy bring watermelon smash like gallagher oh shed bring giant project book not exist reality staff manufacture slam podium problem big hello m michigan state senator mallory mcm project oh man get fake populism yeah people common man right way represent common man bad kamala harris kamala harris intersectional elitist grow berkeley son professor move montreal childhood work job day life not work low level da immediately start sleep willie brown elevate way california politic story elevate vice presidency obviously president united states presidential candidate seek intersectional representative vp s story literally common person experience kamala harris not know problem certainly not know problem problem involve get sleep use helix sleep mattress here thing m pretty busy day not day not good night sleep appreciate helix sleep mattress helix harness year mattress expertise offer truly elevate sleep experience helix elite collection include different mattress model tailor specific sleep position firmness preference nervous buy mattress online not helix sleep quiz match body type sleep preference perfect mattress buy mattress somebody take helix quiz match firm breathable mattress love wife love big helix fan shapiro household helix year warranty try night risk free ll pick not love helix financing option flexible payment plan great night sleep far away limited time helix offer mattress order plus free pillow listener head helix sleepcomben s helix sleepcomben good offer will not long helix well sleep start right s helix sleepcomben represent common man bad kamala harris think lot go to backlash way not not think go to work everybody know democratic national convention party common man right common american like blue collar american s weird democratic national convention kick introduction remind delegate convention hold land forcibly remove indigenous tribe prairie band potawatomi nation tribal council vice chairman zach pam tribal council secretary lori milkier take stage start convention welcome democratic party ancestral homeland ancestral homeland prairie band potawatomi nation sister potawatomi nation honor spirit tribal nation travel westward beautiful area welcome democratic national convention homeland land carry enormous importance original steward ancestor present day community talk people forcibly remove community settler colonialist theory animate democratic party idea western civilization strange bad land americans currently live actually belong indigenous people couple thousand year ago nevermind story human migration story population movement tribal warfare rest democratic party start premise america wrongly found s democratic national convention start premise chicago actually american city steal land indigenous sound like blue collar pitch z nnc platform finally democrats write platform little awkward little awkward cause turn original platform try release chalk fill joe bidens talk accomplishment guess time edit stick like oh whoops not mean joe biden mean kamala harris course steal nomination exactly new platform promise healthcare right america privilege nationalize healthcare talk fighting protect expand affordable care act reality want public option want expand traditional medicare coverage include dental vision hearing service universal preschool year old guarantee affordable quality childcare million work family day child possible trillion dollar expenditure america national pay family medical leave program want essentially place universal basic income want double funding repair expand active transportation public transit s ton stuff codify national abortion protection spend environmental justice climate change democratic machine sound like touch concern everyday americans not afford grocery right not think fake joy actually revenge fake populism intersectional elitist crap fake courage fake courage course member democratic codery suggest courageous step like example coach golden state warrior steve kerr steve kerr bring odd reason say speak outcome risk discuss moment s willing actual risk speak risky way believe american public life speak dnc actual risk sure sure steve know speak politic day come risk shut whistle tweet fire speak know soon ask important american citizen speak election magnitude wow brave courageous fellow steve kerr goodness mean probably courageous example ask chinese human right abuse nba lot money ride relationship china probably speak not not not obviously big story league right know darrell morris tweet go china thought situation actually not mean bizarre international story lot know not know m read like everybody m go to comment s courage s courage mean coward seriously story democratic party look courageous courageous go to run scream pro kamas wing democratic party yesterday josh shapiro vice presidential nominee democrats s problem s jew not be not jews get democratic party ticket get people love hamas democratic party base josh shapiro coward run away question dare kamala harris say jew yeah bleep sherlock think go to come hey dude jew way s not select heres josh shapiro bidding democratic party course coward let clear antisemitism play absolutely role dialogue vice president absolutely yeah true antisemitism present commonwealth country area party stand speak cool wanna name josh coward han omar rashida tb kamala harris entire foreign policy team meet mayor dearborn secret s scale october celebrator ja j ja god cowardice absolute cowardice party truthfully cowardice protestor outside people democratic party kowtow attack law enforcement yesterday show dnc prediction protester attack law enforcement outside dnc yesterday people deploy pepper gas officer throw water em throw water bottle stick thing nature continuously try fence officer respond professionally train okay protestor actually break gate not know need wall not open arm constituent need wall wall bad s terrible break gate wave palestinian flag wy wiess kamas confront police course decide set late ada set like tent city chicago course course complete useless people democratic party kowtow wear terrorist headscarf tofia palestinian flag rest local park antiisrael protestor call jews pig know kind people good people joe biden coward extraordinaire actually say point wrong event wanna s know pro zionist not want know tomala think guy loud party majority majority hope think pig race zionist majority mean think support cheese think think pig pig racist zionist majority consider pig pig racist z pig racist m proud zionist pi zionist pig racist zionist protester democratic party kowtow people ve get fake joy mean revenge ve get fake populism actually mean elitism fake courage actually mean absolute sheer cowardness fake sacrifice big story night fake sacrifice joe biden say selfsacrificial mean tie throw burn pire momentarily ve mi racistcom purchase ticket opening weekend september thank get message people say local theater not show racist here fix single ticket sell right theater carry movie help push theater country basic economic people wanna theater matt walsh group white guy absolutely dismantle leftist gender theory woman time take weird world dei s uncover laugh loud funny course enrage response movie phenomenal far not afford slow ve get mi racist play theater near head mi racistcom buy advanced ticket today movie theater america possible okay fake joy actually revenge fake populism actually elitism fake courage actually cowardice finally get main fake sacrifice understand joe biden selfsacrificial man hold office presidency mean man life line public service enrich family year super duper corrupt want leave actually actually like shove room al doll matilda chokey basically cry uncle say okay fine cath actually nomination sacrifice lemme tell sacrifice wonder get rid joe biden reason joe biden idea hell go here live shot joe biden convention hall night arrive great bob live shot president joe biden inside convention hall wow scary constantly sense room look crowd kind randomly stare full capacity tonight order program test extent s look grim reaper s like hide person hide person joe biden s like goodness thing go amazing kamala harris let say know look sacrifice time pay tribute good president history united states totally shiv directly gut steal nomination want leave california sleep beach january cause man guy terrible s amazing sacrificial s amazing sacrificial m go to come go to pretend love old man love guy love love man not wait till die love here kamala harris wanna kick celebrate incredible president joe biden kill ll speak later tonight joe thank historic leadership lifetime service nation continue forever grateful hell continue time grow short joe get to feel horrible beat joe biden honestly like deserve go theory politic not know year end get deserve get deserve hillary clinton run year try president united states tout person lose donald trump timer endorse run president republican aisle exactly deserve barack obama spend long year believe choose messianic figure american politic like donald trump president united states hand key white house donald trump joe biden spend entire career want love want fete want celebrate shuffle wait rid sit eulogize honest god kind awful kind delicious exact time yesterday hang dnc somebody say ready pass torch lets internal struggle go ready pass court yes sir m m m mean absolutely entire democratic party act go pretend give voluntarily not force brain signature piece paper course eminently untrue donor cut money nancy pelosi go say go provide level support presidential run continue chuck schumer say thing force know force publicly report force fact nancy pelosi basically admit force go lie go to gaslight go fib remember joy unity joy unity kill old man replace fresh face chuck schumer act joe biden give thing voluntarily man folk believe people deserve come road politically deserve come hope hear friend president joe biden tonight great patriot amazing man great patriot say number goal stop donald trump donald trump danger democracy actually decide run show great american unselfish wonderful man ve know year not surprise not surprise kid try force cling cliff fingernail stomp hand like oh self sacrifice ugh believe level sacrifice take disembowel bleed give like wow amazing sacrifice joe heres hillary clinton thing night bring dignity decency confidence white house like past tense right cause s politically alive show mean true patriot thank joe biden lifetime service leadership man good joe biden commit political suicide shoot head time head stab time politically speak wow un unselfish act total political voluntary suicide shooting hang politically like truly amazing stuff god people liar liar right right oj simpson american politic like bloody glove hand like man nicole sure commit suicide real awkward let tell mean sure hand throat like stab time let tell like crazy crazy suicidal situation oh god okay finally trot biden family biden family try clear want want want bad want not want pathetic pathetic dr joe biden actual president united states know point communist party level fey party truly amazing thing say early week end book finally learn love big brother ve finally come consonance party s important thing joe come endorse kamala harris people america hate kamala harris joe biden widely report joe biden despise kamala harris actually good reason like thing agree joe biden joe biden think kamala harris terrible suggest joe biden racist joe biden ve try stop go desegregate school kid endorse force bus kamala hate joe joe hand baton person despise joe know kamala see courage determination leadership close kamala tim win say know reason joe step cause dig deep soul oh pretty sure knife dig deep innard week ago see dig deep soul goodness decide long seek reelection endorse kamala harris wow s happen guy mean sure watch happen real time happen happen okay ashley biden bidens kid come not hunter speak ve weird ashley come speak s consequential leader history american republic yes reverse order importance go abraham lincoln hold union george washington found union number come number old guy win fluke election proceed blow year inflation economy set world fire force retirement party cause terrible candidate consequential ashley biden dad tell well anybody well teach deserve fair shot not leave s learn fighter underestimate entire life look dad grace strength humility consequential leader history like winston churchill joe biden listen bad read section diary okay go to joe bidens awful speech night come air pm eastern time push november like not want see guy not want not want not want see immediately afterward shovel crypt take crypt shove belly air force ship california finally joe not know minute point s force joe biden start speak pm remember joe bidens daily schedule shut pm time get pm joe biden physically dead room shock paddle shock life go look like great bob great come crowd start chant thank joe mean thank joe thank leave thank go away daughter yeah granddaughter not acknowledge s s yeah thank thank thank joe leave thank thank go away away popular popular give s hysterical person love love love like thank joe go away thank joe go die pretty great pretty great way m m totally go to dinner party like want leave m go to walk em like thank bob like like thank bob thank bob alex shove amazing richly deserve corrupt terrible person hey speech suggest democracy prevail democracy prevail mean win single primary vote shove nomination lady win zero primary vote democracy typically s voting obviously plant candidate sound like democracy triumph joe grateful heart oh stand august night report democracy prevail yeah show show door democracy love democracy deliver vote hama democracy preserve start rehash terrible philadelphia speech declare half country traitor country start brag record like amazing job not wait open trap door underneath feed crocodile ah commitment president americans yeah fail vote study major bill pass actually deliver red state blue job president deliver america okay ll okay cause m exaggerate ve extraordinary year progress period s go lose donald trump legitimately off okay not complete joe biden speech recapitulate fine people hoax okay debunk include snope lie donald trump say fine people side confederate statue controversy fine people white supremacist donald trump say condemn neonazi condemn white supremacist ve run crap s amazing particular speech joe biden recapitulate fine people hoax breath say neonazi pro kamas outside great point antisemite inside house call democratic party house heres joe biden fine people hoax senator ask think happen donald trump say quote fine people side god mar s say s lie say say mean s s liar true know say fine people side joe biden s talk terrorist group hamas s talk israelis s talk people set faah outside convention center call hamas hezbollah actual terrorist group win call jews pig people point say joe biden way script script literally go script day ago forward proposal bring close ve october work clock secretary state prevent wide war reunite hostage family surge humanitarian health food assistance gaza civilian suffering palestinian people finally finally finally deliver cease fire war pound podium end war kamas reject cease fire kamas steal humanitarian aid kamas pro protestor street point lot innocent people kill side trashy human truly trashy point palestinians kill s hamas launch bad terror attack jews world war ii refuse surrender currently hold baby hostage wanna talk somebody fine people side joe biden party fill morally corrupt human being coward truly pathetic stuff speak minute night keep go go ongoing battle joe biden teleprompter continue commit night strengthen illegal immigration exciting kalin committed strengthen legal immigration m m glad s ready strengthen illegal immigration s great go break midnight terrible leave democrat not want s sit president united states s s hilarious somebody ask kamala harris think joe biden fit president united states vice president united states invoke amendment time office believe protestor fine point believe one go to ask question day ask question lie thoroughgoing lie lie lie lie perfectly obvious half brain s selfsacrificial man leave time lie true s leave want leave s leave force point chris wallace correctly night word everybody describe tonight bittersweet bitter fact matter m say joe biden bitter know like ve throw window fall gee nice get throw window basically force know s go to lot talk tonight generous selfless basically force nancy pelosi barack obama chuck schumer hakeem jeffrie right nancy pelosi basically admit night cnn s like mean not force kind force kinda little bit s historic historic s die talk question think right decision country concern president campaign hmm force oh sad oh sad okay joe biden get deserve get shove stage unceremoniously big story lie lie go to continue week go to continue week rest campaign dumb believe go foe joy actually look happen world point behoove people think kamala harris presidency look like important question election cycle come quick preview s happen night awful dnc member member use coach shapiro checkout month ann annual plan click link description join republicans nazi separate bad white grow think race matter racist appreciate leave m try learn m journey m go to sort need deeply undercover racist join matt certify dei expert here certification stretch whiteness listen field america inherently racist word inherent challenge wanna rename george washington monument george floyd monument america racist bone inherently yes country piece white folk trash white supremacy white woman white boy black person black person right exist not m racist hi robin hi s m matt ask careful careful go to sell racist buy ticket theater september rate pg americans buy gun year range usually wife gun loud recoil lot recoil uncomfortable fortunately not case s single accessory go range lot enjoyable silencer shoot significantly quieter cut lot recoil concussion obtain silencer pain neck s ton paperwork red tape involve fortunately friend silencer shop help get silencer super simple silencer shop help american gun owner suppressor process easy offer large selection brand silencer dedicated team help find perfect fit firearm handle hard ll help submit paperwork suppressor comfort homesilencershopcom slash shapiro guy know huge advocate second amendment right silencer shop not support second amendment right fight spend lot time money aggressively lobby fighting lawsuit support prosecond amendment legislation nation got to check em silencer shopcomshapiro let silencer shop help gun well silencer shopcomshapiro friend legacy box offer simple safe solution digitize memory know old box home movie check sure not environment s hot damp old medium break time preserve lose forever legacy box save tape sale easily access memory protect forever tape process simple load legacy box old tape film picture team 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May 21, 2020 Donald Trump did a tour of the Michigan Ford Plant before his speech, him appearing to be the only member of the tour without a mask. He explained why he wasn’t wearing one on camera, saying he “wore one in this back area, but I didn’t want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it.” Read the transcript of his comments during the tour, speaking with the press. Transcribe Your Own Content Try Rev for free and save time transcribing, captioning, and subtitling. President Donald Trump: (00:00)Jim, how are you? Jim: (00:00)Good to meet you. President Donald Trump: (00:00)Nice to see you. Speaker 3: (00:03)This is Mr. Lester from General Electric. Mr. Lester: (00:03)It’s nice to meet you, Mr. President. President Donald Trump: (00:03)How’s our friend doing? Okay? Mr. Lester: (00:03)He’s good. President Donald Trump: (00:03)He’s doing well, right? They’re all doing well. They’re all doing well. Speaker 3: (00:03)So, they’re going to tell you really quickly what they’ve built here. President Donald Trump: (00:03)Okay, good. Speaker 3: (00:03)And the White House was superb [inaudible 00:00:21]. Vice President Pence- President Donald Trump: (00:03)Well this is a very important project. Please, go ahead. Mr. Lester: (00:36)Can I just start since day one? 60 days ago, we talked to supports on your staff around what the needs were, and it was around PPE. So, helping first responders but also clearly the charge for ventilators. So, maybe what I’ll do is just explain… President Donald Trump: (00:37)Go ahead. Please. Speaker 5: (00:41)From the GE side, we’ve been involved from day one of on ventilators side. So, Jim and I have been partners here- President Donald Trump: (00:45)How long have you been in GE? Speaker 5: (00:47)17 and a half years. President Donald Trump: (00:48)Very good. Speaker 5: (00:49)In the healthcare division the entire time. President Donald Trump: (00:50)Very good. Great company. It’s coming back? Speaker 5: (00:54)We’re doing well. President Donald Trump: (00:54)The engine thing has got to be tough though, right? Speaker 5: (00:54)The aircraft engines. President Donald Trump: (00:54)The airplane engines. Speaker 5: (00:54)Very tough. President Donald Trump: (00:54)That’s got to be tough because that was your- Speaker 5: (00:54)We had a huge market share. President Donald Trump: (01:00)That was your baby, right? Speaker 5: (01:08)It is. It is. President Donald Trump: (01:08)Exactly making too many planes. Speaker 5: (01:08)Servicing them. President Donald Trump: (01:08)But they’re making these. Speaker 5: (01:09)They’re making these. President Donald Trump: (01:10)So, go ahead. Speaker 3: (01:11)Actually, it’s all the stuff you see here, gowns, masks, face shields, face masks. President Donald Trump: (01:16)All right. Good. Are you making it all there? Mr. Lester: (01:17)Yeah, well actually in three different facilities. President Donald Trump: (01:18)Oh, yes. Mr. Lester: (01:18)So, it’s over 1000 UAW workers, all volunteers that are helping out. President Donald Trump: (01:21)That’s great. They’re all volunteers. Please. Mr. Lester: (01:26)Mr. President, our first thing is we wanted to move very, very quickly. The need was to move very fast, things like how do we help people. And one of the first gains we had with the administration said that the urge to contract the tension from the eyes, and we thought how would we actually help out with somebody who’s wearing a mask with more protection, so face masks. So what you see behind you is essentially the first week, we were producing face shields. This is an example of a face shield, and… President Donald Trump: (02:00)Can I see this? Anything unique about this? Mr. Lester: (02:06)It provides a… President Donald Trump: (02:07)Go ahead. Mr. Lester: (02:12)This photo behind you is a- President Donald Trump: (02:13)Is this any special kind of mask? Mr. Lester: (02:13)Well, it’s a cleanable plastic, basically, which means it had produced at high speeds. So, this is four weeks later. It can give you a [inaudible 00:02:25]. In less than 30 days, we were building four million face shields a week at [crosstalk 00:02:32]. President Donald Trump: (02:45)That’s fantastic. President Donald Trump: (02:45)Will you keep doing that after the [inaudible 00:02:42]? You think it- Mr. Lester: (02:45)Our leadership- William Ford, Jr.: (02:45)Well, we could for as long as it’s needed, I think. President Donald Trump: (02:47)There’ll be a time when you’ll have it. Jim: (02:48)If you tell us, we’ll fill the cupboards. President Donald Trump: (02:51)Yeah, that’s great. You did really a good job quickly. Mr. Lester: (02:54)Well, that was the thing that was- President Donald Trump: (02:57)Hello everybody. Hi. Carol Cain: (02:58)Mr. President, can I ask you a question? President Donald Trump: (02:58)Yeah. Carol Cain: (02:58)So my question to you is this. Thanks to all the work of manufacturers like Ford and- President Donald Trump: (03:07)Who are you with? Carol Cain: (03:08)I’m Carol Cain with CBS in Detroit and Detroit Free Press. President Donald Trump: (03:09)Good, good. Very good. Carol Cain: (03:12)My question to you is this. Because of all the ventilators being made here at Ford, and the heroic efforts of all the manufacturers there at [inaudible 00:03:20], we now know we have enough manufacturing going on for the time being as far as the ventilator goes. You said you think we have enough, in fact, can share with other countries. My question to you, sir, is looking six months from now, a year from now, how much do we need to keep back in our stockpile to keep us safe? President Donald Trump: (03:38)You know, we were just talking about it. We have a very big stockpile right now and we’re building it bigger and we’re helping a lot of other countries. Nigeria, we just sent a thousand. We have various, various countries, France, Spain. We have a lot going to Italy. We have a lot going to a different, probably 15, 18 countries. They’re calling us. We had the capacity to do this. Nobody else did. So every state now has more than they need, and our stockpile is totally full. We have a tremendous amount. So now we’re really helping other countries where they’re losing a lot of people because they don’t have ventilators. Ventilators are hard to do, and I want to say that Ford and General Electric have done an incredible job working together. And also the companies that work with you, they really did a great job. President Donald Trump: (04:29)They do a great car and they really did a great job on the ventilators. And I hear that the quality of the ventilator has been really top of the line. William Ford, Jr.: (04:38)Thank you. Speaker 7: (04:38)Mr. President- President Donald Trump: (04:38)We really appreciate it, fellas. Good job. Speaker 7: (04:41)Mr. President, there was a lot of interest about whether you would end up wearing a mask today. Could you just take us through your thought process of why you decided not to wear a mask? President Donald Trump: (04:51)Well, I had one on before. I wore one in this back area, but I didn’t want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it, but no, where I had it in the back area, I did put a mask on. Speaker 7: (05:01)Did you have the goggles on too, as well, sir? President Donald Trump: (05:03)I did. I had goggles, goggles and a mask right back there. Speaker 7: (05:06)Why would you not be- President Donald Trump: (05:07)And here’s another one. Speaker 7: (05:08)Why would you not be wearing it- President Donald Trump: (05:10)Because in this area… You take it. Speaker 7: (05:11)Why would you not be wearing it here, sir? President Donald Trump: (05:13)Not necessary here. Everybody’s been tested and I’ve been tested. In fact, I was tested this morning, so it’s not necessary. Speaker 7: (05:19)But the [crosstalk 00:05:20] executives are wearing them. President Donald Trump: (05:22)Well, that’s their choice. I was given a choice and I had one on in an area where they preferred it. So I put it on and it was very nice. It looked very nice, but they said they’re not necessary here. Yeah, please. Speaker 8: (05:39)What about the example that it would set for other Americans to see you wearing a mask? President Donald Trump: (05:40)Well, I think it sets an example both ways. And as they say, I did have it on. Thank you. Yeah, please. Carol Cain: (05:45)Mr. President. President Donald Trump: (05:50)I just liked your question so much. You know what, it was such a nice question. Carol Cain: (05:53)No, it was a great question. Here’s a question for you. So, you have seen- President Donald Trump: (05:56)I’ll take an extra question. Carol Cain: (05:57)There we go. President Donald Trump: (05:57)Go ahead. Carol Cain: (05:58)We’ve seen the manufacturers here, Ford, GM, [inaudible 00:00:06:00], others, small businesses, turning things overnight and making PPE materials. As someone who is the President of the United States, in terms of our manufacturing might, how do you see what’s taken place in these last months? President Donald Trump: (06:12)This is the biggest mobilization since World War II, and these people were in charge of it. They did it. They did a fantastic job. They did a really fantastic job and we appreciate it. All of these companies, they came together and they used to make cars here. They used to make other things here. And now not only the ventilators, but you’re saying the masks and all of the other… What other product do you make? It’s the head of Ford, by the way. Not bad. Not a bad position. William Ford, Jr.: (06:39)Thank you. So, we’ve got- President Donald Trump: (06:40)You know, she’s a very nice woman. William Ford, Jr.: (06:41)I know. Hi Carol. How are you? Carol Cain: (06:43)Hi Bill. How are you doing? William Ford, Jr.: (06:43)Well, you know what we’re making. We’ve got the pressure respirators, obviously the ventilators, the masks, the gowns, really anything that anybody needs. We responded quickly and we’re very proud of our workforce. They’ve been amazing. President Donald Trump: (06:56)Is he doing a good job? Carol Cain: (06:58)He is. In fact, Bill, you have been through so many crises through your years as Chairman and CEO of the company here. How does this crisis, dealing with this pandemic, making PPE materials compare? William Ford, Jr.: (07:10)Well, everyone’s different. I mean, I won’t take you through all of them going all the way back to maybe the oil shocks and then the dot com meltdowns and all those. Every crisis is different, but what’s amazing is how our people responded. And this one, they didn’t wait to be asked to do something. They said, “Here’s an opportunity, and let’s go.” What I love about our culture is they didn’t ask for permission. They just went, and that’s something that we’ve done throughout our 117 year history, and I hope we’ll always do. Speaker 10: (07:39)Mr. President- Speaker 7: (07:41)Mr. Ford, can we ask you another question? President Donald Trump: (07:42)By the way, here is my mask right here [crosstalk 00:07:44], and I liked it very much. I actually, honestly, I think I look better in the mask. I really did. I look better in the mask, [crosstalk 00:07:53] but I’m making a speech so I won’t have it now, but I did have it on right here. And I think some of you might’ve gotten a shot. Thank you very much. Speaker 7: (08:01)Mr. Ford, can you confirm that the President was told it’s okay not to wear one in this area? William Ford, Jr.: (08:07)It’s up to him. Mr. Lester: (08:16)It basically keeps the occupants safe. It takes in fresh air. President Donald Trump: (08:16)Oh, that’s great. Mr. Lester: (08:16)And we used automotive components, so we heard the message that we needed to go quickly. We built 32,000 of these respirators, and we’ve shipped 887 [crosstalk 00:08:28] – President Donald Trump: (08:28)Is that like a seatbelt something there? Mr. Lester: (08:29)If you walk around here, you can see the respirator. It just holds the respirator, so. On the first day when we had this conversation, in the drawing, we said how do we use automotive components to go quick? And so we got about a fan of a highly controlled seat in the F150. We take a battery pack off of a Dewalt tool from the battery source, and then a filter to filter the air for the occupant. President Donald Trump: (08:54)I hear it’s a very high grade ventilator. William Ford, Jr.: (08:57)Yeah, it’s great. It is. They’ve done a great job. I mean, the ventilator and the respirator, they’re really, really neat. What’s also amazing is how many our team can make. I mean that’s one thing the auto industry- President Donald Trump: (09:11)So how many will you make a week, ventilators? Mr. Lester: (09:16)Ventilators, we’re ramping up to 6,000 a week. President Donald Trump: (09:20)So folks, that’s 6,000 ventilators a week. Think of that. From a running start, which wasn’t much of a run, actually. So we had very few in this country, almost none. We were not in that business and now they’re making thousands a week. Great thing. What about this? Mr. Lester: (09:37)So, we built 32,000 of these already. President Donald Trump: (09:37)Wow. Mr. Lester: (09:37)So, we’ll be able to go 12,000 a week. President Donald Trump: (09:40)Is that full proof, would you say? Mr. Lester: (09:46)Basically this is the maximum protection for an occupant. President Donald Trump: (09:48)Maximum. Mr. Lester: (09:48)Maximum. It basically blows filtered air, filters out the virus over there over the occupant’s face, so if they’re in a large ICU ward, or they’re in one of these makeshift ICU wards, and there’s a lot of virus could be in the air, this would give them the maximum protection. President Donald Trump: (10:03)We got to get back to the rallies. Do you agree with that, John? We got to have the rallies. John: (10:08)One question, Mr. President. One question. The Secretary of the Treasury said there is a strong likelihood that we’ll need another fiscal stimulus. To your thinking, what shape would that take? President Donald Trump: (10:18)I think we will. I think we’re going to be helping people out. We’re going to be getting some money for them during the artificial… Because it really is. It’s an artificial closure and now we’re going to be able to open it up. President Donald Trump: (10:28)This isn’t like for long term problems and it takes years and years to have it come back. The depression took 12 years, more, 14, 15 years. We’re going to be back next year, maybe even in the fourth quarter, in a few months, we’re going to be back. Because we closed it and now we open it. But I would say there could be one more nice shot, one more nice dose. John: (10:52)What do you think should be in it? President Donald Trump: (10:54)Well, I’d let you know and I know exactly, but I’d rather do it at the appropriate time. John: (10:58)We know what payroll tax cuts- President Donald Trump: (10:59)Today we’re celebrating these great companies doing ventilators and other equipment, but we have a very, very specific plan, and it’ll be great for the American people, and our economy’s going to be back soon, and Ford and General Electric and these great companies that helped us so much in a time of need, they’re going to be very happy. And you’re already gearing up. I know you’re gearing up. Your lines are starting to roll making cars again. So a lot of things are happening. President Donald Trump: (11:27)By the way, on our southern border, it’s never been so secure. We’re up to almost 200 miles of wall and we have never had, that whole area, nobody comes through that area. The area where the wall goes up, that’s the end of that. John: (11:42)And so you’re having this speech here this afternoon. What are you thinking about in terms of campaign rounds? When will you be able to get back to doing rallies? President Donald Trump: (11:48)So, as soon as you’re able to have people get in. We’ve never had an empty seat since the day I came down the escalator with our future First Lady, we’ve never had an empty seat. You know that. And we’d have thousands of people we sent away. And I think the demand now from what we see is greater than ever before. We’re going to have to go to certain states where we’re able to… Look, I don’t want to have a stadium where you’re supposed to have a person and then seven empty seats and then another person. President Donald Trump: (12:15)So we might do some outdoor big ones, and we may also just wait until the stadiums can open up. I think it’s going to be soon. We’ll go to a place like Florida. We’ll go to a place like maybe Georgia, some other place where they’re going to be opening up. Whoever opens up first. The demand has been incredible to get going with the rallies. I just hear the music in the background. I’m saying we’ve had rallies like nobody’s ever had, and we would love to get back to that. I think it’s going to be sooner rather than later. John: (12:47)And I know you were asked about this briefly this morning, this new AstraZeneca vaccine from Oxford that HHS has invested $1 billion in, how much promise do you think that holds for an early vaccination progress? President Donald Trump: (13:00)I think it holds tremendous promise, but we have many other companies who are just about as far along. We have many companies. We have the greatest pharmaceutical companies in the world. They’re equally, you know what I mean? They’re really in a position and I’m not only talking about vaccine. I’m talking about cures and therapeutics. Therapeutically, we have some things coming out which we think are going to be great, but they have to be tested quickly. And we’re doing it very quickly. John: (13:28)Who would get the vaccine first? First responders, elderly people? President Donald Trump: (13:31)Right now, what we’re doing is we’re setting logistically with our military, our military is in gear so that we can give 150, 200 million shots quickly. The military is in gear. We can move a couple of hundred thousand soldiers immediately in time of emergency. So this is not nearly as big a deal is that it’s equally as important perhaps, but it’s not as tough logistically. John: (14:00)But how would you prioritize it? President Donald Trump: (14:03)I’ll sit down with a lot of people and we’ll figure it out. We’re going to sit down with the military and we hope to be in that position fairly soon. So rather than having the vaccine, doing the tests and then starting to gear up, we’re taking a risk. Because you know, it could be that if something happened, but I don’t think that’s going to be. But in addition to that company, we have other companies that are very far advanced. And also don’t forget, therapeutics and cure. We’re talking about a vaccine in this case, but therapeutics and cure. President Donald Trump: (14:31)I mean, frankly, that’s my first choice, because that would take care of people that are in trouble right now. Okay? Speaker 7: (14:37)Mr. President, on the issue of testing, there’s been questions about whether you’re satisfied or not with what the CDC is doing, the work they’re doing, particularly the director, Dr. Redfield. Can you address that? Are you satisfied with the work CDC- President Donald Trump: (14:48)I think they’re doing a good job, a really good job in a very complex situation. You know, we started off, nobody knew what the virus was. It came in from China and nobody knew what it was. And frankly, I think they’ve done a really good job. I’m very happy about it. A lot of other people think they’ve done a lot of great work. We’re now up to, and this is beyond even CDC, because we’ve done it between Jared Cushner and a lot of geniuses coming in from Silicon Valley, and a lot of people, these companies where they could make ventilators. President Donald Trump: (15:20)Look, what we did with ventilators is incredible because we geared up in a short period of time through General Electric, Ford, they’re represented here at the top level, through other companies. We were at Honeywell the other day. They make masks. Who would think Honeywell is making a mask? But that’s what they’re making now is a mask. It’s a very high tech company. You know, they make the dashboards to an airplane and lots of other things. And now they’re making masks. Our companies geared up so quickly, so fast. Honeywell opened a plant in three weeks from literally zero to open making masks in three weeks. It’s been an incredible achievement. There’s never been anything done like this since the end of World War II. John: (16:04)You said a number of weeks ago, we can’t let the cure become worse than the disease. President Donald Trump: (16:09)That’s true. John: (16:10)Where are we in that calculus? President Donald Trump: (16:11)I think I was the first one to say it. I don’t know. Wouldn’t you say that I was the first one? But you can’t let the cure become worse than the problem itself. John: (16:19)And where are we? President Donald Trump: (16:21)I think the governors have to start opening up. We now know the disease. We know the weaknesses and the strengths. We know that older people are affected gravely, and younger people are not affected gravely, frankly. You look at the statistics. It’s incredible. And we know that we have to protect some people much more so. I think a lot of the governors have done a very, very poor job on nursing homes, but they’ve done a good job on other things. I know every governor. I can grade every governor. But we’ve made a lot of hero governors. We’ve done a great job for the governors and my relationship with them in almost all cases is very good. President Donald Trump: (17:02)And remember this. One of the beauties we were just talking about, not one person who needed a ventilator didn’t get a ventilator. John: (17:09)But with another 2.4 million people claiming first time unemployment insurance benefits today, how close are we to the cure being worse than the disease? President Donald Trump: (17:19)I think that a lot of these states are going to, the ones that are sort of sticking to a certain very rigid pattern, I think they’re going to stop. I don’t think that people are going to stand for it. This is a country that’s meant to be open, not closed. And we did the right thing, John. We saved millions of lives, millions and millions of lives. You would have had anywhere from a million five to two million, five, three million lives, think of it. So if we were at a hundred thousand, instead of a hundred thousand, multiply that times 15, 20 or 25, it wouldn’t have been acceptable. It wouldn’t have been sustainable. You couldn’t have done it. So we’ve called it right, and now I want it open and we’re going to open. And if there’s a fire, an ember, a flame some place, we put it out. President Donald Trump: (18:04)But the people have done a great job, and General Electric, Ford and all the other people that work with them have done fantastic work. And Honeywell, again, I was there last week. But Honeywell, they’ve done fantastically also. Okay? Thank you very much. Speaker 13: (18:17)Mr. President, you mentioned that embers, right, smaller fires, those pockets of the virus popping up. Are you concerned about a potential second wave of this virus? President Donald Trump: (18:27)People say that’s a very distinct possibility. It’s standard. And we’re going to put out the fires. We’re not going to close the country. We’re going to put out the fires. There could be, whether it’s an ember or a flame, we’re going to put it out, but we’re not closing our country. Thank you very much. Speaker 14: (18:39)Are you looking to replace Dr. Redfield or his [inaudible 00:18:43]? President Donald Trump: (18:39)No. Transcribe Your Own Content Try Rev and save time transcribing, captioning, and subtitling. Copyright Disclaimer Under Title 17 U.S.C. 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donald trump tour michigan ford plant speech appear member tour mask explain wear camera say wear area want press pleasure see read transcript comment tour speak press transcribe content try rev free save time transcribe captioning subtitle president donald trump jim meet president donald trump speaker mr lester general electric mr lester nice meet mr president president donald trump friend okay mr lester good president donald trump right speaker go tell quickly build president donald trump good speaker white house superb inaudible vice president pence president donald trump important project ahead mr lester start day day ago talk support staff need ppe help responder clearly charge ventilator maybe explain president donald trump ahead speaker ge involve day ventilator jim partner president donald trump long ge speaker half year president donald trump good speaker healthcare division entire time president donald trump good great company come speaker president donald trump engine thing 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million face shield week crosstalk president donald trump fantastic president donald trump inaudible think mr lester leadership william ford jr long need think president donald trump time jim tell fill cupboard president donald trump great good job quickly mr lester thing president donald trump everybody hi carol cain president ask question president donald trump carol cain question thank work manufacturer like ford president donald trump carol cain carol cain cbs detroit detroit free press president donald trump good good carol cain question ventilator ford heroic effort manufacturer inaudible know manufacturing go time far ventilator go say think fact share country question sir look month year need stockpile safe president donald trump know talk big stockpile right build big help lot country nigeria send thousand country france spain lot go italy lot go different probably country call capacity state need stockpile totally tremendous help country lose lot people ventilator ventilator hard want ford general electric incredible job work company work great job president donald trump great car great job ventilator hear quality ventilator line william ford jr speaker president president donald trump appreciate fellas good job speaker president lot interest end wear mask today think process decide wear mask president donald trump wear area want press pleasure see area mask speaker goggle sir president donald trump goggle goggle mask right speaker president donald trump speaker wear president donald trump area speaker wear sir president donald trump necessary everybody test test fact test morning necessary speaker crosstalk executive wear president donald trump choice give choice area prefer nice look nice say necessary yeah speaker example set americans wear mask president donald trump think set example way thank yeah carol cain president president donald trump like question know nice question carol cain great question question see president donald trump extra question carol cain president donald trump ahead carol cain see manufacturer ford gm inaudible small business turn thing overnight make ppe material president united states term manufacturing take place month president donald trump big mobilization world war ii people charge fantastic job fantastic job appreciate company come car thing ventilator say mask product head ford way bad bad position william ford jr get president donald trump know nice woman william ford jr know hi carol carol cain bill william ford jr know make get pressure respirator obviously ventilator mask gown anybody need respond quickly proud workforce amazing president donald trump good job carol cain fact bill crisis year chairman ceo company crisis deal pandemic make ppe material compare william ford jr different mean will go way maybe oil shock dot com meltdown crisis different amazing people respond wait ask say opportunity let love culture ask permission go year history hope speaker president speaker ford ask question president donald trump way mask right crosstalk like actually honestly think look well mask look well mask crosstalk make speech will right think get shot thank speaker ford confirm president tell okay wear area william ford jr mr lester basically keep occupant safe take fresh air president donald trump great mr lester automotive component hear message need quickly build respirator ship crosstalk president donald trump like seatbelt mr lester walk respirator hold respirator day conversation drawing say use automotive component quick get fan highly control seat battery pack dewalt tool battery source filter filter air occupant president donald trump hear high grade ventilator william ford jr great great job mean ventilator respirator neat amazing team mean thing auto industry president donald trump week ventilator mr lester ramp week president donald trump folk ventilator week think running start run actually country business make thousand week great thing mr lester build president donald trump mr lester able week president donald trump proof mr lester maximum protection occupant president donald trump mr lester basically blow filter air filter virus occupant face large icu ward makeshift icu ward lot virus air maximum protection president donald trump get rally agree john get rally john question mr president question secretary treasury say strong likelihood need fiscal stimulus thinking shape president donald trump think think go help people go get money artificial artificial closure go able open president donald trump like long term problem take year year come depression take year year go year maybe fourth quarter month go close open nice shot nice dose john think president donald trump let know know exactly appropriate time john know payroll tax cut president donald trump celebrate great company ventilator equipment specific plan great american people economy go soon ford general electric great company help time need go happy gear know gear line start roll make car lot thing happen president donald trump way southern border secure mile wall area come area area wall go end john have speech afternoon think term campaign round able rally president donald trump soon able people seat day come escalator future lady seat know thousand people send away think demand great go certain state able look want stadium suppose person seven seat person president donald trump outdoor big one wait stadium open think go soon place like florida place like maybe georgia place go open open demand incredible go rally hear music background say rally like love think go soon later john know ask briefly morning new astrazeneca vaccine oxford hhs invest billion promise think hold early vaccination progress president donald trump think hold tremendous promise company far company great pharmaceutical company world equally know mean position talk vaccine talk cure therapeutic therapeutically thing come think go great test quickly quickly john vaccine responder elderly people president donald trump set logistically military military gear million shot quickly military gear couple thousand soldier immediately time emergency nearly big deal equally important tough logistically john prioritize president donald trump sit lot people figure go sit military hope position fairly soon have vaccine test start gear take risk know happen think go addition company company far advanced forget therapeutic cure talk vaccine case therapeutic cure president donald trump mean frankly choice care people trouble right okay speaker president issue testing question satisfied cdc work particularly director dr redfield address satisfied work cdc president donald trump think good job good job complex situation know start know virus come china know frankly think good job happy lot people think lot great work cdc jared cushner lot genius come silicon valley lot people company ventilator president donald trump ventilator incredible gear short period time general electric ford represent level company honeywell day mask think honeywell make mask make mask high tech company know dashboard airplane lot thing make mask company gear quickly fast honeywell open plant week literally zero open make mask week incredible achievement like end world war ii john say number week ago let cure bad disease president donald trump true john calculus president donald trump think know let cure bad problem john president donald trump think governor start open know disease know weakness strength know old people affect gravely young people affect gravely frankly look statistic incredible know protect people think lot governor poor job nursing home good job thing know governor grade governor lot hero governor great job governor relationship case good president donald trump remember beauty talk person need ventilator ventilator john million people claim time unemployment insurance benefit today close cure bad disease president donald trump think lot state go one sort stick certain rigid pattern think go stop think people go stand country mean open close right thing john save million life million million life million million million life think thousand instead thousand multiply times acceptable sustainable call right want open go open fire ember flame place president donald trump people great job general electric ford people work fantastic work honeywell week honeywell fantastically okay thank speaker president mention ember right small fire pocket virus pop concerned potential second wave virus president donald trump distinct possibility standard go fire go close country go fire ember flame go close country thank speaker look replace dr redfield inaudible president donald trump transcribe content try rev save time transcribe captioning subtitle copyright disclaimer title usc section allowance fair use purpose criticism comment news reporting teaching scholarship research fair use permit copyright statute infringe weekly digest week important transcript inbox 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Speeches, etc. Mrs. Margaret Thatcher (Finchley) I feel in two minds about being asked to follow a man who has described his friendship with a gamekeeper, particularly as he described it in such graphic terms, using four and five letters words. Therefore, it might well be proper if I do not follow him too closely in his excursions to the Continent. I hope that he will forgive me if I do not follow his argument, but I have a number of points which I wish to make which have not been gone into in detail before in the debate. First, I should like to deal with the question of a capital gains tax. My purpose is to make clear the extent to which the Inland Revenue already has powers to deal with speculators—powers which, I believe, are not fully used at present. These powers come under Case 1 of Schedule D, and it is settled law that a person who speculates in land is taxable as a dealer and not as an investor, so that the profit taken from the result of his annual transactions is liable to Income Tax. When the first Royal Commission on Taxation of Profits and Income reported on this matter, in 1920, it was not then settled that a single isolated transaction by way of sale of land could be treated as a taxable transaction, but since that time it has been established that one isolated sale of land can be an adventure in the nature of trade, and can give rise to Income Tax in the ordinary way. There is nothing to limit that principle to land. Indeed, it has been extended in many settled cases to include commodities. It has also been extended—this was decided by the Court of Appeal as far back as 1944—to where a person, in trying to sell land, endeavours to do so by way of putting that land into a separate company and selling the shares instead. The profit on the sale of shares is likewise taxable as an adventure in the nature of trade. That was decided, in a judgment delivered by the then Master of the Rolls—my hon. Friend A. Barberthe Economic Secretary will be familiar with it—in the case of Associated London Properties v. Henriksen and that case has never, to [column 1227]my knowledge, been used again by the Inland Revenue. Many hon. Members who have professional contacts with tax matters must know that they have frequently advised, in certain tax schemes, that they depend on the fact that the Inland Revenue will not invoke that case. I do not know why it has never been invoked, but the average person does not realise the extent of the powers which the Inland Revenue already possesses to tax speculators in land and shares. I do not believe that these powers are being used to the maximum. All that the Inland Revenue has to do is to raise an assessment, and it is the easiest thing in the world for a member of the Inland Revenue office to sign an assessment. It is not then up to the Revenue to prove that assessment; the onus is on the citizen to prove that the assessment is false. Thus, the Revenue has very extensive powers indeed. My right hon. and learned Friend Jelwyn Lloydthe Chancellor of the Exchequer made a small reference to these powers being extended to a greater extent in future. I welcome that, because it is the speculator in shares that we want to get at—the person who is making a business of buying and selling shares, not to hold them for their income producing properties, but to live on the profit which he makes from the transactions. That is the person most of us would like to get at, and I do not believe that there is need for any change in the law at the moment to enable us to do so. Certain aspects of the revenue law were suspended for ten years on the directive of a former Chancellor, and this was called the “Chancellor's umbrella” . If such a directive can result in the suspension of certain aspects of the revenue law for about ten years, then one hopes that a warning from the Chancellor would result in the Inland Revenue invoking the powers it already possesses. Secondly, I hope that we are seeing the end of the period when successive Chancellors seem to think that any reliefs they give in the Budget can be recouped by putting an increasing tax on company profits. This tax is about as high as it should be at the moment, and I find it a little ironic that, when companies [column 1228]are being asked to increase exports, they have an increasing Profits Tax, which means that they keep a decreasing amount of the results of the efforts they make in getting more export business. At a time when they are asked to scrutinise expenses more closely, it is made less profitable for them to do so, because they retain a lesser amount of the result. At a time when they are being asked to carry out more investment in order to re-equip and install modern machinery, the resources out of which they have to do it are being depleted by increasing taxation. Last year, there was a 2½ per cent. increase in the Profits Tax, which has not yet been felt in full. Now, another 2½ per cent. has been added. In two years' time companies will be feeling the increase in taxation imposed in these last two years. My right hon. and learned Friend and his successors should be warned that in future Budgets it is not right indefinitely to go on transferring the tax burden from individuals to companies. Companies appear to be the “Cinderellas” . Added to what the Chancellor does in a few years companies will have to bear an increasing rate burden as rates are transferred to some extent from householders to industrial premises. I understand that companies will also have to take a large amount of the increase in tax on heavy oils. These factors, I am certain, will ultimately increase prices. I think that over the last year, when profit margins have been squeezed, we have had a period in which companies have tried to take all the increases in costs without increasing their prices. They are now getting something which will clearly increase their prices, and they know that there will be an increase in consumer expenditure at the same time. There is no point in tinkering about with prices. They will say, “If we are to increase them, let us increase them by an amount which will take into account not only the increase in taxes and costs which we have to bear, but those we are likely to have to face during the next twelve to eighteen months” . That is a danger which arises from the Budget. Thirdly, may I make one or two comments about the Chancellor's remarks [column 1229]about the structure of taxation. I welcome any simplification of the structure of the tax system, but I should like to take up one point which the hon. and learned Member for Kettering (Mr. Mitchison) made about Profits Tax. I do not think many people realise the tremendous simplification in Profits Tax which occurred when we went from the differential rate to the flat rate. Speaking as one who has a professional interest in tax matters, I say this, that the charging sections for the distribution charge which are inevitable if we have a differential rate of taxation are among the most complicated of the whole tax code. They give rise to more technical anomalies than any other section of tax law. The moment we make tax legislation extremely complicated, highly technical, and highly anomalous, it gives rise to much scope for tax avoidance. If we want to avoid tax avoidance, we have a duty to try to make the charging sections as simple and as straightforward as possible. The hon. and learned Member for Kettering quoted the Royal Commission's opinion on Surtax. I notice that he did not quote the Royal Commission on either the capital gains tax or Profits Tax, because they were contrary to his interests in that respect. I would be very much against changing back Profits Tax to a differential rate, and I think that it is right to retain the flat rate. It helps considerably in a simplified taxation of companies. While I am on the question of the structure of taxation, may I gently encourage the Chancellor to battle as hard as he can with the Treasury. The reasons he gave for not amalgamating Income Tax and Surtax are strangely reminiscent of the reasons why P. A. Y. E. could not be introduced before, in fact, it was introduced. I believe that a memorandum exists in the Treasury setting out the reasons why it was impossible to introduce P. A. Y. E., the memorandum having been brought out about a year before the system was introduced. As regards the modifications to double taxation, the necessity for one of them would not have arisen had it not been for the fact that we have our taxation in Schedule D of Case I and Case II profits on the preceding year basis. If we are [column 1230]going in for simplification in the structure of taxation, it seems to me that this would provide an excellent opportunity for the Chancellor to carry out the recommendations of the Royal Commission and change to the current year basis. It is a change which I would welcome and I hope that it will be undertaken. I should like to make one or two comments about Government expenditure. Various hon. Members have quoted various figures without giving the sources, and I notice that the proportion of Government expenditure and Government taxation to gross national product appears to have varied during the debate from about 31 per cent. to 25 per cent. I had better give the source for my figures. It is one of the most interesting things in Budget and economic debates to try to deduce from what hon. Members say which periodicals they have been reading. I know that some hon. Members have read Lloyds Bank Review of April, 1961, because references have been made to the beginning and end of that publication, and some hon. Members have read the middle as well. The figures given there relate to total Government expenditure at the national and at the local level. It compares total Government expenditure as thus defined to total gross national product at factor cost. The figures on page 4 show that Government expenditure has risen from 9 per cent. of the gross national product in 1890 to 42 per cent. in 1952, and was 37 per cent. in 1959. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman has obviously not read the periodical. The article, entitled “Past and Future Public Spending” , is most interesting. It is written by Professor Peacock and Mr. Jack Wiseman. It is shortly to be published as a book—I have no interest in its publication. Mr. Woodburn When the hon. Lady talks about public expenditure, I take it that she means Government and local authority expenditure. It is still public expenditure if people spend it themselves instead of the Government. For instance, if the Health Service charges were transferred back to the people to spend, it would still be public expenditure. Mrs. Thatcher I defined what I meant. I accept that of the 37 per cent. a certain amount is not a charge on the annual output but is what one would [column 1231]call a form of transfer payment. Nevertheless, the Government have control of 37 per cent. of the expenditure of the total gross national product. It is extremely high, and it brings us to the heart of the problem, that we, as new hon. Members, cannot begin to tackle the burden of tax until we have some means better than we have at the moment of controlling the size of Government expenditure. I believe that it is folly for any hon. Member to lead the public into believing that there will be a fall in the absolute figure of Government expenditure. There will not be. It is almost certainly bound to rise, if only because the welfare services are expanding, and, for another reason, that much of the expenditure has been on current account. There is a good deal of expenditure and replacement of capital account which needs to be carried out if existing services are to be maintained at their present level. We will not see a fall in the ordinary figure of Government expenditure, but we have to control it as a proportion of the gross national product. I look forward to reading and debating the recommendations of the Plowden Committee when they are published. At present, the system of control of Government expenditure is very dangerous in that it gives all the appearance of control without the reality, and that is about the worst situation which one can possibly have, the theory being that there can be no new expenditure which has not been approved in an Estimate; no expenditure can be approved in a draft Estimate until it has been approved by the Treasury; and no increase in staff can be had in excess of an amount approved by the Treasury. Those three things may be all very well in theory, but they do not lead to effective control of Government expenditure throughout the year, and until we manage to solve this problem of controlling the amount effectively by Parliament I do not think that we shall be able to devote our attention to considering how the burden is to be distributed as between one kind of taxation and another. Finally, I want to refer to one or two miscellaneous points. I am grateful to the Chancellor for his reduction in Surtax, because it will help married women [column 1232]teachers who want to return to their profession, but I hope that in his overhaul of the structure of taxation he will assess the incomes of married women quite separately. I do not mean that he should make merely a technical assessment; there should be a separate charge. That would be far better than the method by which he chooses to proceed at the moment. European countries are absolutely unanimous in feeling that we are the hardest of all in our treatment of the wife who goes out to work, especially the wife in the middle-class income group who does so. When we find it unanimously expressed that we lag behind Europe in a certain respect special attention ought to be given to the matter by the Chancellor. I thank my right hon. and learned Friend, on behalf of many of my constituents, for granting relief from tax in relation to the compensation given by the Germans to the victims of Nazi persecution. I have had a great deal of correspondence about this, and I know that this concession will help many of those victims who live in my constituency. I look forward with even more eagerness to my right hon. and learned Friend's next Budget, when we shall get the result of all that he has undertaken to do in the present one, and I wish him well throughout the many battles that he will have in the process with his Treasury advisers. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mrs margaret thatcher finchley feel mind ask follow man describe friendship gamekeeper particularly describe graphic term letter word proper follow closely excursion continent hope forgive follow argument number point wish go detail debate like deal question capital gain tax purpose clear extent inland revenue power deal speculator power believe fully present power come case schedule d settle law person speculate land taxable dealer investor profit take result annual transaction liable income tax royal commission taxation profit income report matter settle single isolated transaction way sale land treat taxable transaction time establish isolated sale land adventure nature trade rise income tax ordinary way limit principle land extend settled case include commodity extend decide court appeal far person try sell land endeavour way put land separate company sell share instead profit sale share likewise taxable adventure nature trade decide judgment deliver master roll hon friend barberthe economic secretary familiar case associated london properties v henriksen case column knowledge inland revenue hon member professional contact tax matter know frequently advise certain tax scheme depend fact inland revenue invoke case know invoke average person realise extent power inland revenue possess tax speculator land share believe power maximum inland revenue raise assessment easy thing world member inland revenue office sign assessment revenue prove assessment onus citizen prove assessment false revenue extensive power right hon learn friend jelwyn lloydthe chancellor exchequer small reference power extend great extent future welcome speculator share want person make business buy sell share hold income produce property live profit make transaction person like believe need change law moment enable certain aspect revenue law suspend year directive chancellor call chancellor umbrella directive result suspension certain aspect revenue law year hope warning chancellor result inland revenue invoke power possess secondly hope see end period successive chancellor think relief budget recoup put increase tax company profit tax high moment find little ironic company column ask increase export increase profit tax mean decrease result effort get export business time ask scrutinise expense closely profitable retain less result time ask carry investment order reequip install modern machinery resource deplete increase taxation year cent increase profit tax feel cent add year time company feel increase taxation impose year right hon learn friend successor warn future budget right indefinitely transfer tax burden individual company company appear cinderellas add chancellor year company bear increase rate burden rate transfer extent householder industrial premise understand company large increase tax heavy oil factor certain ultimately increase price think year profit margin squeeze period company try increase cost increase price get clearly increase price know increase consumer expenditure time point tinker price increase let increase account increase taxis cost bear likely face eighteen month danger arise budget thirdly comment chancellor remark column structure taxation welcome simplification structure tax system like point hon learn member kettering mr mitchison profit tax think people realise tremendous simplification profit tax occur go differential rate flat rate speak professional interest tax matter charge section distribution charge inevitable differential rate taxation complicated tax code rise technical anomaly section tax law moment tax legislation extremely complicated highly technical highly anomalous give rise scope tax avoidance want avoid tax avoidance duty try charge section simple straightforward possible hon learn member kettering quote royal commission opinion surtax notice quote royal commission capital gain tax profit tax contrary interest respect change profit tax differential rate think right retain flat rate help considerably simplified taxation company question structure taxation gently encourage chancellor battle hard treasury reason give amalgamate income tax surtax strangely reminiscent reason p y e introduce fact introduce believe memorandum exist treasury set reason impossible introduce p y e memorandum having bring year system introduce regard modification double taxation necessity arise fact taxation schedule d case case ii profit precede year basis column simplification structure taxation provide excellent opportunity chancellor carry recommendation royal commission change current year basis change welcome hope undertake like comment government expenditure hon member quote figure give source notice proportion government expenditure government taxation gross national product appear vary debate cent cent well source figure interesting thing budget economic debate try deduce hon member periodical read know hon member read lloyds bank review april reference beginning end publication hon member read middle figure give relate total government expenditure national local level compare total government expenditure define total gross national product factor cost figure page government expenditure rise cent gross national product cent cent interruption hon gentleman obviously read periodical article entitle past future public spending interesting write professor peacock mr jack wiseman shortly publish book interest publication mr woodburn hon lady talk public expenditure mean government local authority expenditure public expenditure people spend instead government instance health service charge transfer people spend public expenditure mrs thatcher define mean accept cent certain charge annual output column form transfer payment government control cent expenditure total gross national product extremely high bring heart problem new hon member begin tackle burden tax mean well moment control size government expenditure believe folly hon member lead public believe fall absolute figure government expenditure certainly bind rise welfare service expand reason expenditure current account good deal expenditure replacement capital account need carry existing service maintain present level fall ordinary figure government expenditure control proportion gross national product look forward read debate recommendation plowden committee publish present system control government expenditure dangerous give appearance control reality bad situation possibly theory new expenditure approve estimate expenditure approve draft estimate approve treasury increase staff excess approve treasury thing theory lead effective control government expenditure year manage solve problem control effectively parliament think shall able devote attention consider burden distribute kind taxation finally want refer miscellaneous point grateful chancellor reduction surtax help married woman column want return profession hope overhaul structure taxation assess income married woman separately mean merely technical assessment separate charge far well method choose proceed moment european country absolutely unanimous feel hard treatment wife go work especially wife middleclass income group find unanimously express lag europe certain respect special attention ought give matter chancellor thank right hon learn friend behalf constituent grant relief tax relation compensation give germans victim nazi persecution great deal correspondence know concession help victim live constituency look forward eagerness right hon learn friend budget shall result undertake present wish battle process treasury adviser copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill terminates General License No. 8A, which was issued by the Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control to authorize energy-related transactions involving specified Russian financial institutions. Further, the bill applies property-blocking sanctions to those Russian financial institutions listed in the license.

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bill terminate general license issue department treasury office foreign asset control authorize energyrelate transaction involve specify russian financial institution bill apply propertyblocke sanction russian financial institution list license

This bill prohibits the Department of Health and Human Services from conducting or supporting any research that involves the use of human fetal tissue from an induced abortion. The bill also prohibits soliciting or acquiring a donation of human fetal tissue from an induced abortion, other than for purposes of an autopsy or burial. The bill applies requirements on the research of transplantation of fetal tissue for therapeutic purposes to research on fetal tissue in general.

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bill prohibit department health human service conduct support research involve use human fetal tissue induce abortion bill prohibit solicit acquire donation human fetal tissue induce abortion purpose autopsy burial bill apply requirement research transplantation fetal tissue therapeutic purpose research fetal tissue general

Pro-Life Debate Tips With Trent Horn Published: 8/6/2023 Joining us online is Trent Horney iss, an Apologist for Catholic Answers, the host of the Council of Trent Podcasting, the author of nine books, including Persuasive Pro-Life and Answering Atheism. He was recently on the whatever podcast where he took part in a very long conversation and Debate on abortion. Trent, thanks so much for running the show. Thanks for having me, Ben. So let's talk about the sort of tactics that you use when you're debating the abortion issue on places like the whatever podcast. How do you prepare for that sort of thing? Well, when I'm engaged in a Debate or dialogue with someone else, I make sure to watch their previous debates, see what they believe about abortion. So when I was engaging Destiny on this question, I watched his previous debates and I saw that he doesn't use the standard weak arguments pro-choice people use. Like what about women who are too poor? Or what about back alley abortions? He doesn't even think bodily rights arguments work. Well, it's my body, my choice. He thinks those arguments are terrible. He believes that a person begins to exist 20 weeks after conception when you're conscious. But as I pointed out in the Debate, there are many non-human animals that are very con, that are more conscious than human newborns. So why don't we give them a right to life? So Destiny's position ultimately collapses 'cause it can't explain the unique value that only human beings have. And whenever I try to have abortion discussions, I always get back to that one question. Who, what are the unborn? And if they're human beings, why don't we treat them humanely? Yeah, I mean the, the consciousness argument I've always found to be somewhat bizarre, because again, consciousness is actually a continuum. I mean, you see this among fully grown human beings. I mean there are certain human beings who are capable of higher levels of thought than other human beings. And you get into eugenic territory pretty quickly. If you decide to draw an arbitrary line at certain mental function, I mean obviously there are people who have genetic preconditions that that makes their IQ significantly lower than the average. Why? Why should we draw the level of humanity? I mean if, if we use sort of ancient philosophy and suggest that reason is the thing that separates man from the beast, then what about people who are not capable of reason? What about people who are mentally ill? What about people who have, as I say, genetic conditions and, and why not eliminate all those people and and deny them a right to life? I mean at least, I I will say that Peter Singer at least takes its to its logical conclusion. He says that, you know, even the level of consciousness of a two year old is less than that of animals. So basically until a kid's three and smarter than a cow, then at that point you can't kill them. But until they're two, he probably could. That's right. And in fact, in the discussion with Destiny, he even admitted that when I showed weaknesses in his argument. He said, well, at worse, that's just gonna push my position towards infanticide. I'm not going to accept the humanity of early embryos. But I think for many normal human beings, they have a very strong moral intuition that it's wrong to kill newborn babies. So if your view on abortion leads to the morality of killing newborn babies, then most people will see, yeah, your view on abortion is just simply wrong. Now I think someone like Destiny might say to, so your reply, which I think is a good one, go ahead. No, go ahead. No, no, continue. That's fine. Oh, sure. Well, I was gonna say that the reply might be that yes, consciousness varies in different degrees, but you could still have the property of being conscious or not being conscious. Just like how someone on a football team, there might be some better players or worse players. You're either on the team or not on the team, which is why I brought up to Destiny. Well, what if we had a healthy pre-conscious fetus and we cause them to be permanently unconscious? Could we use them, for example, to do organ harvesting and just grow a brain injured human being, or do even worse things? I don't even wanna say here on the show that he admitted you could do, which just ultimately shows the inhumanity of his position. Yeah, I mean, aside from that, if somebody is in a coma and that coma is temporary, the person is unconscious, I mean if you, every time you go in for surgery, they put you into a, a state of, of unconsciousness in order for them to do the surgery in that state, when you are unconscious, presumably the answer is that you could be killed. And if the idea is that, well, that's time bound. Well, so is human brain development, right? The, the, the whole idea there is that if, if, if you are unconscious and somebody drugs you so that you're in a coma and that, or, or so that you're unconscious while they do the surgery, and then you come out of the, the surgery and, and the argument is you can't kill the person while they're unconscious because they will eventually become conscious again. Well, that is literally all pregnancy ever is a, is a thing that is not conscious gaining consciousness as time goes on. So it, it's, it's, it is an argument that that doesn't sustain even sort of the most basic scrutiny. But honestly, most arguments on abortion really come down to the idea that they just kind of want abortion to be legal. And, and because they want that they, there's no way to draw any sort of consistent line at all that, for example, prohibits the killing of infants or prohibits the killing of the mentally quote, unfit as they would've called them in the early 20th century, Right? As I said to Destiny, we were talking about, I think the host Brian asked, what do you think is the worst pro-choice argument? And I said, the worst one, which is probably the most common, is that abortion ought to be legal because abortion helps born people. I mean that's essentially it, right? What about someone who's too poor to take care of a child, someone who's too young, abortion needs, you know, it helps born people, so it ought to be legal. And of course, the weakness in this argument is that it just ignores whatever the unborn are. We need to answer that question. If the unborn are not human beings, then I agree abortion is not a big deal. But if the unborn are human beings, abortion simply can't be justified. So let, let's talk for a second about some of the follow-up arguments. So, you know, you have the, the arguments about levels of consciousness that you've mentioned, and then you have the arguments that destiny didn't actually engage in about bodily autonomy. And the, the most famous argument along these lines is the, is the comatose violinist argument, the argument that, that somebody hooks you up bodily to a comatose violinist and, and that, you know, can, are you forced to essentially carry this person around with you for nine months? Or, or not? How do you respond to those sorts of arguments? Well, what I point out is the violinist thought experiment, it puts us in the position of the pregnant mother. But what if we change the thought experiment to put you in the position of the violinist? What if somebody hung out with a group of the society of musical pranksters and they know that sometimes they'll go out, have a night of fun and antics, and they'll wake up hooked up to an unconscious person. And what if that person found out they were hooked up to you and they said, you know what, I don't want, and, and you needed that person's kidneys to live. And they said, you know what? I don't wanna take care of this guy. Unplug him from me. Kill him. There we see, wait a minute, you caused me to be dependent on you, so you owe me, you have a moral obligation to help me. But it gets even worse than that because this analogy is so far removed from pregnancy. An unborn child is not like a dying violinist who we choose to not save. When you unplug from the violinist, you don't start the fatal sequence of events that leads to the end of his life. You're choosing not to save his life, but an abortion. It's not the case. You have a healthy child and the, you initiate the fatal sequence of events by choosing to abort him or her. And then finally, my kidneys were not made for anybody else. If I Donate to someone that's extraordinary, that's a, a heroic act. But the uterus is designed for the unborn child. So the child, if he has any rights at all, has at least a right to the natural place he would live to receive food and sustenance. One further argument on that, on that front that I've used as well is, is the fact that when, that, that argument assumes no relationship whatsoever between the two people at issue. If, if the dying violinist where your brother presumably the, the math changes pretty quickly, and if the dying violinist were your child, which is what we are actually talking about right here, then the math changes fairly dramatically. And anybody who is like, oh, my kid was hit by a car and might be dying, should, can I unplug it from me? I mean, I think at that point everybody goes, whoa, you wanna kill your own kid? Like that's a little bit awkward. It's a right. But most, most of these arguments, arguments are incredibly, are incredibly awkward actually. Right? They don't correspond to what pregnancy actually is. And so even in that case, you're right, some people will tell me, yeah, the violinist argument, it doesn't work in normal cases of pregnancy where you do something knowing a person could get plugged into you, but maybe it works in the case of rape. But imagine a woman is kidnapped by a rapist and she escapes and she's nine months pregnant and you know, she's in, in a rural area trying to get away from him and she gives birth to this child that was conceived by the rapist. Now she never chose to engage in intercourse, but this is still her child and the child is completely dependent upon her. She could not leave that child or just abandon that child. It would be a difficult situation. But our children have a right to our care even if we don't consent to bringing them into existence. We're speaking with Trent Horn, he's an apologist for Catholic Answers and the host of the Council of Trent podcast. So you did get into a sort of fascinating conversation with Destiny about the source of morality. And this is really what all this comes down to is that, that if you don't believe that there is such a thing as an objective morality, you're likely to be able to, to spin off into whatever self-direction directed morality you, you choose and, and that makes things very convenient for you. What do you think lies at sort of the fundamental level of the argument about the source of morality? Yeah, well I think that for many people who don't wanna make morality objective, they might wanna make it social destiny had a non-cognitive position that morality is just an expression of disapproval. So. if you say murder is wrong, that is literally the same thing as saying boo murder, I don't like murder. But most of us, when we talk about these moral issues, we're not just debating opinions. We understand that these are moral facts that we're talking about here. And so it doesn't work when we're trying to establish what should moral standards be for society. So, if you try to root it morality in social opinions, you get a lot of problems. For example, I would tell Destiny and other pro-choice people, if society eventually changed and said that abortion is immoral, would you agree with society? I think many of them would say, no society's gone wrong. We have to get it back to for women's rights. Oh, okay. So you don't think that morality really comes from society 'cause you want to reform and change society to make it in accord with your understanding of morality. All of that shows that morality can't come merely from society. We have to have a moral standard that transcends time, place, and culture. Now, as a Christian, I think the best explanation for that is there is a perfectly moral person, the source of goodness itself. God who transcends time, place, and culture and that's where moral standards come from. Well again, go check out the work of Trent. Horney can hear, he's really, really good at this. His book is Persuasive Pro-Life, how to Talk about Our Culture's Toughest Issue's Available over at Amazon. Thanks so much for your time, Trent, really appreciate it. Thank you Ben. Hope You guys enjoyed that. We'll be back here with much, much more tomorrow. This is the Ben Spiro Show.

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prolife debate tip trent horn publish join online trent horney iss apologist catholic answer host council trent podcast author book include persuasive prolife answer atheism recently podcast take long conversation debate abortion trent thank run thank have ben let talk sort tactic use debate abortion issue place like podcast prepare sort thing m engaged debate dialogue sure watch previous debate believe abortion engage destiny question watch previous debate see not use standard weak argument prochoice people use like woman poor alley abortion not think bodily right argument work body choice think argument terrible believe person begin exist week conception conscious point debate nonhuman animal con conscious human newborn not right life destinys position ultimately collapse cause not explain unique value human being try abortion discussion question unborn human being not treat humanely yeah mean consciousness argument ve find somewhat bizarre consciousness actually continuum mean fully grow human being mean certain human being capable high level thought human being eugenic territory pretty quickly decide draw arbitrary line certain mental function mean obviously people genetic precondition make iq significantly low average draw level humanity mean use sort ancient philosophy suggest reason thing separate man beast people capable reason people mentally ill people genetic condition eliminate people deny right life mean peter singer take logical conclusion say know level consciousness year old animal basically kid smart cow point not kill probably s right fact discussion destiny admit show weakness argument say bad s go to push position infanticide m go accept humanity early embryo think normal human being strong moral intuition wrong kill newborn baby view abortion lead morality kill newborn baby people yeah view abortion simply wrong think like destiny reply think good ahead ahead continue s fine oh sure go to reply yes consciousness vary different degree property conscious conscious like football team well player bad player team team bring destiny healthy preconscious fetus cause permanently unconscious use example organ harvesting grow brain injure human bad thing not wanna admit ultimately show inhumanity position yeah mean aside somebody coma coma temporary person unconscious mean time surgery state unconsciousness order surgery state unconscious presumably answer kill idea s time bind human brain development right idea unconscious somebody drug coma unconscious surgery come surgery argument not kill person unconscious eventually conscious literally pregnancy thing conscious gain consciousness time go argument not sustain sort basic scrutiny honestly argument abortion come idea kind want abortion legal want s way draw sort consistent line example prohibit killing infant prohibit killing mentally quote unfit ve call early century right say destiny talk think host brian ask think bad prochoice argument say bad probably common abortion ought legal abortion helps bear people mean s essentially right s poor care child s young abortion need know helps bear people ought legal course weakness argument ignore unborn need answer question unborn human being agree abortion big deal unborn human being abortion simply not justify let let talk second followup argument know argument level consciousness ve mention argument destiny not actually engage bodily autonomy famous argument line comatose violinist argument argument somebody hook bodily comatose violinist know force essentially carry person month respond sort argument point violinist think experiment put position pregnant mother change thought experiment position violinist somebody hang group society musical prankster know ll night fun antic ll wake hook unconscious person person find hook say know not want need person kidney live say know not wanna care guy unplug kill wait minute cause dependent owe moral obligation help get bad analogy far remove pregnancy unborn child like die violinist choose save unplug violinist not start fatal sequence event lead end life choose save life abortion case healthy child initiate fatal sequence event choose abort finally kidney anybody donate s extraordinary s heroic act uterus design unborn child child right right natural place live receive food sustenance argument ve fact argument assume relationship whatsoever people issue dying violinist brother presumably math change pretty quickly die violinist child actually talk right math change fairly dramatically anybody like oh kid hit car die unplug mean think point everybody go whoa wanna kill kid like s little bit awkward right argument argument incredibly incredibly awkward actually right not correspond pregnancy actually case right people tell yeah violinist argument not work normal case pregnancy know person plug maybe work case rape imagine woman kidnap rapist escape s month pregnant know s rural area try away give birth child conceive rapist choose engage intercourse child child completely dependent leave child abandon child difficult situation child right care not consent bring existence speak trent horn s apologist catholic answer host council trent podcast sort fascinating conversation destiny source morality come not believe thing objective morality likely able spin selfdirection direct morality choose make thing convenient think lie sort fundamental level argument source morality yeah think people not wanna morality objective wanna social destiny noncognitive position morality expression disapproval murder wrong literally thing say boo murder not like murder talk moral issue debate opinion understand moral fact talk not work try establish moral standard society try root morality social opinion lot problem example tell destiny prochoice people society eventually change say abortion immoral agree society think societys go wrong women right oh okay not think morality come society cause want reform change society accord understanding morality show morality not come merely society moral standard transcend time place culture christian think good explanation perfectly moral person source goodness god transcend time place culture s moral standard come check work trent horney hear s good book persuasive prolife talk culture toughest issue available amazon thank time trent appreciate thank ben hope guy enjoy tomorrow ben spiro

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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This bill allows funds under the Community Oriented Policing Services grant program to be used to provide signing bonuses and retention bonuses for law enforcement officers.

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bill allow fund community orient policing service grant program provide signing bonus retention bonus law enforcement officer

Speeches, etc. Poverty and ignorance were once the problems of democracy, but to-day, there were problems of a different kind, said Mrs. Margaret Thatcher, M.P., at the Finchley Redbourne (Evening) Towns-women's Guild meeting. In Redbourne Hall, Finchley Central, on Wednesday last week. “We are living in a changing society in which the tremendous development of mass media plays no small part,” commented Mrs. Thatcher. On freedom of speech and the right of minorities. Mrs. Thatcher said a new problem of democracy was how far the minority should be allowed to disrupt the majority. She mentioned the student revolt. Mrs. Thatcher was introduced by Miss B. W. Savill, the chairman, who presided. Mrs. P. Baer proposed the vote of thanks. A floral arrangement competition was won by Mrs. O. S. Winkworth and Miss D. Bartram. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc poverty ignorance problem democracy today problem different kind say mrs margaret thatcher mp finchley redbourne evening townswomen guild meeting redbourne hall finchley central wednesday week live change society tremendous development mass medium play small comment mrs thatcher freedom speech right minority mrs thatcher say new problem democracy far minority allow disrupt majority mention student revolt mrs thatcher introduce miss b w savill chairman preside mrs p baer propose vote thank floral arrangement competition win mrs o s winkworth miss d bartram copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Q1. Mr. Wells asked the Prime Minister if he will pay an official visit to Maidstone. The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan) I have at present no plans to visit Maidstone. Mr. Wells Is the Prime Minister aware of the sharp deterioration in the quality of life in Maidstone and in Kent in the past five years, due to the fact that the present Government have not given Kent its fair share of Government expenditure? Is he aware that our hospitals are delayed, our motorways are delayed, north-south roads are delayed and environmental matters, such as the production of TDI and other chemicals, are not producing new jobs but are spoiling people's lives? The Prime Minister I note that the hon. Gentleman, in contradistinction to the Opposition Front Bench, seems to believe that we should be spending more public money on hospitals and on roads. Having listened to him, I feel rather like the British general who, in Singapore, found that his guns were facing the wrong way. Q2. Mr. Adley asked the Prime Minister if he will list his public engagements for 2nd May. The Prime Minister In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. This evening I hope to have an Audience of Her Majesty The Queen. Mr. Adley Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many people will welcome the Government's decision to send the Chief of Defence Staff to Peking to try to forge closer defence links with that country? Is he aware that many will also welcome the forthright statement made by the Chief of Defence Staff, appropriately enough on May Day? Will he take this opportunity to make it clear to those in his party who echo the Kremlin line that he approves of the way in which Sir Neil Cameron is doing his job and that he will do nothing to prevent his continuing to do his job? The Prime Minister It is true that the Government seek to improve relations with China. That has been why a number of Ministers and others have visited that great country in recent years. We shall continue to improve relations with China, but I emphasise that that will not be at the expense of our relations with any of the other major countries in the world. I do not believe that that will be the policy of either party. Mr. Sever When taking an Audience of Her Majesty this evening, will my right hon. Friend ask Her Majesty whether it is possible for her to give more favourable consideration to attending more often the Football Association Cup Final? The Prime Minister The discussions that take place between the Prime Minister and the Queen are, by all the [column 24]usual conventions, kept confidential. The answer to my hon. Friend's supplementary question is “No, Sir” . Mrs. Thatcher Why does James Callaghanthe Prime Minister not stand up for what Sir Neil Cameron said this week? Why did he not stand up for the defence chiefs last week? Why does he not do more to sort out the pro-Soviet group on his side of the House? Are not those hon. Members the real mischief-makers in defence affairs? The Prime Minister I am not quite sure what the right hon. Lady is intending concerning relations with the Soviet Union, but a year ago, after her visit to China, I understood her to say that she did not wish to see relations with the Soviet Union impaired. No more do I. I hope that that is still her view. As for standing up for what has been said, I gather that Sir Neil Cameron was responding to a spontaneous toast by the local comander of the unit that he was visiting, and that he made an unscripted and impromptu reply. In case there is any misunderstanding, or in case the Conservative Party wishes to change the constitutional conventions, I repeat that the formulation of British foreign policy is the responsibility of Her Majesty's Ministers. The remarks made by Sir Neil Cameron on this occasion should not be regarded as altering, extending, modifying or changing in any way the present relationships between Britain and China or between Britain and the Soviet Union. Mrs. Thatcher Will the Prime Minister, therefore, say whether he supports Sir Neil Cameron or not? The Prime Minister This is a matter in which there is a constitutional relationship between the Chiefs of Staff and the British Government. I certainly should not enter into that kind of discussion with the right hon. Lady on this matter. What is important in our relations with the Soviet Union, which the Opposition do not seem to take very seriously, on occasion, is that we should continue to work for detente and for a measure of disarmament. If the Opposition do not wish that, they have changed their policy since the right hon. Lady put it forward as her policy a year ago. Mr. Anderson Does my right hon. Friend think it coincidental that over the past few weeks there have been many attempts to drive a wedge between the Government and the Services? Will he say that, whatever his general views, the views expressed by the Defence Chief in Peking were unwise, to say the least? The Prime Minister I think that the various things that have blown up over the last few weeks have been coincidental. I do not think that Sir Neil Cameron went out of his way, because he has made only one public speech on this matter, to which no one would take any exception at all. I think that he made one or two remarks which, as the Opposition spokesman on defence said on the radio at 1 o'clock, might have been phrased a little differently, but that is an entirely different matter. I do not think that the right hon. Lady is helping our relations with both these Powers by putting the kind of question that she has been putting this afternoon. Q4. Mr. Gow asked the Prime Minister whether he will list his official engagements for 2nd May. The Prime Minister I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave earlier today to the hon. Member for Christ-church and Lymington (Mr. Adley). Mr. Gow As the Prime Minister betrayed the Armed Forces of the Crown in his statement last week about their pay settlement—[Hon. Members: “Shame.” ]—will he now not betray their professional head and give a clear statement today—preferably now—that he gives unequivocal support to the views expressed in China by the Chief of the Defence Staff? The Prime Minister The Chief of the Defence staff said that he was speaking on military matters, not on political questions. In so far as he was speaking on military matters, of course he would have the support of Her Majesty's Government. However, in so far as he was speaking on political matters, it is for him to support the policy of Her Majesty's Government. Mr. Robert Hughes rose—— Mr. Skinner Be careful what you say, Bob. Mr. Hughes Does my right hon. Friend understand that, as a result of earlier exchanges, at the next election the Leader of the Opposition will jettison “The Right Approach” in favour of Mao Tse Tung 's “Little Red Book” ? The Prime Minister I note that there is a difference in the right hon. Lady's attitude according to which Communist regime she happens to have visited. Both Yugoslavia and China are in her good books. She has visited both countries. The Soviet Union is not in her good books. She has not yet visited it. I do not know whether her opinion will change if she does, but I promise her that my opinion will change about neither of these States according to whether I visit them or not. Neither of them fits my concept of the way in which this country wants to go. Mr. Michael Spicer If there is to be this burgeoning planned friendship with the Soviet Union about which the Prime Minister is talking, what does he have to say about the fact that there are three Russian tanks for every NATO tank at the door of Central Europe at the moment? The Prime Minister I have as much to say about that, which is not related to my official engagements for today, as I have said on earlier occasions, namely, that I think that it is a source of considerable disquiet. I have often said that the Soviet Union, by building up its armed forces in this way, is undoubtedly adding to the tension that exists. But that is nothing to do with picking and choosing between various Communist regimes, which the right hon. Lady is seeking to do. Mr. MacFarquhar Could my right hon. Friend leave aside for the moment the urgings of the Opposition and, in the light of what Sir Neil Cameron said, state the Government's overall position on the possibility of arms sales to China? The Prime Minister I could not do that in reply to a question this afternoon. A number of considerations have to be borne in mind and they are being taken into account now. There has been no formal discussion on this matter with the Chinese. Mr. Fairbairn For once, my question relates to the Prime Minister's engagements today. Could he fit in one further engagement today and listen to the regional election results tonight on the radio from Scotland and note the profound defeat that the Labour Party will have at the hands of the Conservatives? The Prime Minister Unfortunately I cannot get Scotland on my set. When I tried to listen to the news on the set in my hotel in Glasgow early this morning, all I could get was punk rock music. Q3. Mr. Moate asked the Prime Minister when he next expects to meet the EEC Heads of Government. The Prime Minister I expect to meet the Heads of Government of some of the member States of the EEC at the meeting of the North Atlantic Council in Washington on 30th and 31st May. I shall also be attending a meeting of the European Council in Bremen on 6th and 7th July. Mr. Moate Does the Prime Minister remember his promise that there would be a fundamental reform of the common agricultural policy? As the British tax-payer will soon be paying about £1,000 million a year, net, into the Common Market budget, and with British food production at a lower level than it was five years ago, will he admit that he has totally broken that promise to the British people? The Prime Minister The common agricultural policy has been changing throughout the lifetime of this Government, beginning with the original premiums in respect of beef which were introduced some time ago, and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture is fighting for further changes now. That ought to have the approval, not the censure, of the hon. Gentleman, especially as we are trying to keep down the structural surpluses which are disfiguring Continental agriculture at the present time. Mr. Hooley When my right hon. Friend next meets the EEC Heads of State, will he discuss with them how they can bring pressure to bear to modify the hard-line stance of Israel on the Middle [column 28]East negotiations and give further support to President Sadat 's initiative? The Prime Minister I shall certainly see whether there is any desire to discuss this matter at the next meeting of the European Council, but it is rather a long way away—6th and 7th July. I hope that the discussions that President Carter is now about to have with Prime Minister Begin and the further discussions that may take place between Prime Minister Begin and President Sadat will lead to some movement and progress on this matter before we meet in July. Sir A. Meyer If the Prime Minister is going to boast that he will prevent the Common Market from not allowing daily doorstep deliveries of milk, when he knows perfectly well that the Common Market has no intention of stopping them, will he be careful not to remind his Common Market colleagues of the way in which he once boasted that he would prevent British trawlers from being chased out of Icelandic waters? The Prime Minister I was not aware that I had boasted about anything of that sort. As for the Milk Marketing Board—I hope that the Opposition are in agreement—we should not allow ourselves to be driven to make fundamental alterations to the Board. That is exactly what the Minister of Agriculture is trying to do now. Mr. Norman Atkinson In regard to the Prime Minister's earlier answer, does he accept that all on the Government side of the House will warmly welcome the firm statement of good will towards the Soviet Union that he made, reaffirming that it is the intention of the Labour Party to pursue with the utmost vigour the whole question of nuclear disarmament—— Mr. Speaker Order. This Question is about the EEC Heads of Government. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc mr well ask prime minister pay official visit maidstone prime minister mr james callaghan present plan visit maidstone mr wells prime minister aware sharp deterioration quality life maidstone kent past year fact present government give kent fair share government expenditure aware hospital delay motorway delay northsouth road delay environmental matter production tdi chemical produce new job spoil people live prime minister note hon gentleman contradistinction opposition bench believe spend public money hospital road having listen feel like british general singapore find gun face wrong way mr adley ask prime minister list public engagement prime minister addition duty house shall hold meeting ministerial colleague evening hope audience majesty queen mr adley right hon gentleman aware people welcome government decision send chief defence staff peke try forge close defence link country aware welcome forthright statement chief defence staff appropriately day opportunity clear party echo kremlin line approve way sir neil cameron job prevent continue job prime minister true government seek improve relation china number minister visit great country recent year shall continue improve relation china emphasise expense relation major country world believe policy party mr sever take audience majesty evening right hon friend ask majesty possible favourable consideration attend football association cup final prime minister discussion place prime minister queen column convention keep confidential answer hon friend supplementary question sir mrs thatcher james callaghanthe prime minister stand sir neil cameron say week stand defence chief week sort prosoviet group house hon member real mischiefmaker defence affair prime minister sure right hon lady intend concern relation soviet union year ago visit china understand wish relation soviet union impair hope view stand say gather sir neil cameron respond spontaneous toast local comander unit visit unscripted impromptu reply case misunderstanding case conservative party wish change constitutional convention repeat formulation british foreign policy responsibility majestys minister remark sir neil cameron occasion regard alter extend modify change way present relationship britain china britain soviet union mrs thatcher prime minister support sir neil cameron prime minister matter constitutional relationship chief staff british government certainly enter kind discussion right hon lady matter important relation soviet union opposition seriously occasion continue work detente measure disarmament opposition wish change policy right hon lady forward policy year ago mr anderson right hon friend think coincidental past week attempt drive wedge government service general view view express defence chief peking unwise prime minister think thing blow week coincidental think sir neil cameron go way public speech matter exception think remark opposition spokesman defence say radio oclock phrase little differently entirely different matter think right hon lady help relation power put kind question put afternoon mr gow ask prime minister list official engagement prime minister refer hon member reply give early today hon member christchurch lymington mr adley mr gow prime minister betray armed force crown statement week pay settlement hon member shame betray professional head clear statement today preferably give unequivocal support view express china chief defence staff prime minister chief defence staff say speak military matter political question far speak military matter course support majestys government far speak political matter support policy majestys government mr robert hughes rise mr skinner careful bob mr hughes right hon friend understand result early exchange election leader opposition jettison right approach favour mao tse tung s little red book prime minister note difference right hon ladys attitude accord communist regime happen visit yugoslavia china good book visit country soviet union good book visit know opinion change promise opinion change state accord visit fit concept way country want mr michael spicer burgeon plan friendship soviet union prime minister talk fact russian tank nato tank door central europe moment prime minister relate official engagement today say early occasion think source considerable disquiet say soviet union build armed force way undoubtedly add tension exist pick choose communist regime right hon lady seek mr macfarquhar right hon friend leave aside moment urging opposition light sir neil cameron say state government overall position possibility arm sale china prime minister reply question afternoon number consideration bear mind take account formal discussion matter chinese mr fairbairn question relate prime minister engagement today fit engagement today listen regional election result tonight radio scotland note profound defeat labour party hand conservative prime minister unfortunately scotland set try listen news set hotel glasgow early morning punk rock music mr moate ask prime minister expect meet eec head government prime minister expect meet head government member state eec meeting north atlantic council washington shall attend meeting european council breman july mr moate prime minister remember promise fundamental reform common agricultural policy british taxpayer soon pay million year net common market budget british food production low level year ago admit totally break promise british people prime minister common agricultural policy change lifetime government begin original premium respect beef introduce time ago right hon friend minister agriculture fight change ought approval censure hon gentleman especially try structural surplus disfigure continental agriculture present time mr hooley right hon friend meet eec head state discuss bring pressure bear modify hardline stance israel middle column negotiation support president sadat s initiative prime minister shall certainly desire discuss matter meeting european council long way july hope discussion president carter prime minister begin discussion place prime minister begin president sadat lead movement progress matter meet july sir meyer prime minister go boast prevent common market allow daily doorstep delivery milk know perfectly common market intention stop careful remind common market colleague way boast prevent british trawler chase icelandic water prime minister aware boast sort milk marketing board hope opposition agreement allow drive fundamental alteration board exactly minister agriculture try mr norman atkinson regard prime minister early answer accept government house warmly welcome firm statement good soviet union reaffirm intention labour party pursue utmost vigour question nuclear disarmament mr speaker order question eec head government copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Cambridge is a scientific and industrial gold mine—and that's why Britain's scientist Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, visited the city. “It's no use politicians siting on their backsides in London, just reading bits of paper. “You've got to get out to see what is going on, and that is just why I have come today,” she told the “News” in an exclusive discussion at the end of a visit to HH Electronic at Bar Hill and Laser-Scan at Cambridge Science Park. “Cambridge is a gold mine. “It is a place where the brains and talents of those in the university can be harnessed and developed by industry, so that new products can be made and new jobs created. “There is a wonderful interface between the academic side and the business side, and Cambridge is one of the prime areas in Britain where we are able to see this happening,” she said. As Britain's first Prime Minister with a science degree, Mrs Thatcher was able to talk the language of those who were telling her of their work and explaining their products. And the fact that she long verstayed her timetable at both factories proved her been interest in what she saw. Mrs Thatcher described HH Electronic as “a wonderful success story” that ought to be repeated more often. The company began 10 years ago with £200 capital, now employs more than 300 People and has a sales target of £6.5 million this year—with a further expansion of its Bar Hill factory providing possibly a further 100 jobs within 18 months, said the founder and managing director, Mr Mike Harrison. The firm makes a range of audio electronic sound equipment used in television, radio, the theatre, recording studios and by professional musicians. The company is particularly strong in the use of new technology, the sort of silicon chip microprocessor technology which Mrs Thatcher has said many times will be one of the lifelines of British industry. It exports almost three-quarters of its turnover, to 52 countries—and Mrs Thatcher was more than impressed when she saw two lots of HH equipment which are on the point of being shipped to Japanese customers. “Now that's what I like to see,” she told the employees. “It's the modern version of taking coals to Newcastle, but my goodness its the sort of salesmanship we need in this country.” She tried out HH microphones and speakers by talking to everyone through them. She pronounced the sound produced as “extremely good, very natural” and said that HH was clearly a success story based on high quality ideals and also a strong cosmopolitan attitude and team spirit among everyone who worked there. At Laser-Scan, which has grown from sales of £165,000 six years ago to a target of £1 million this year, all on 55 employees, she saw techniques the firm has developed to digitise maps using laser beams and computers. They are already in use by cartographers in civilian and military roles, and Mrs Thatcher saw how one Laser-Scan machine can produce three-dimensional images of a given area of land, and show the topography from a variety of angles. Another machine drew a map, using the computer's memory bank, in 48 seconds and even had such detail as garden sheds included. She was well pleased when the technical director, Mr Peter Woodsford, said one system used within Laser-Scan was called Maggie for short. “So it should be, if it's a scientific system,” she said. “But I have to tell you that it is a dump file,” said Mr Woodsford. “Oh no, you can't do that to me—you'd better find another name for it,” she quipped. At the end of the visits, Mrs Thatcher was asked by the “News” just what specific benefit there had been for a scientist Prime Minister—had she really gained anything from them, other than just interests sake? “Oh yes—it's no use politicians sitting on their backsides in London, just reading bits of paper,” she said. “You don't learn what you need to know by doing that. You've got to get out to see what is going on, and that is just why I have come today.” She specially asked to see the work of the two companies because she knew they had grown from small beginnings, had created new products and given people new and interesting jobs. “In Cambridge, you are on the outside of a seam in a coal mine, if I can put it like that,” she said. “That is to say that there is a wealth of talent inside and outside the university, and they can work so closely together to turn the ideas into products and the products into sales. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc cambridge scientific industrial gold s britain scientist prime minister margaret thatcher visit city use politician site backside london read bit paper ve get go come today tell news exclusive discussion end visit hh electronic bar hill laserscan cambridge science park cambridge gold place brain talent university harness develop industry new product new job create wonderful interface academic business cambridge prime area britain able happen say britain prime minister science degree mrs thatcher able talk language tell work explain product fact long verstaye timetable factory prove interest see mrs thatcher describe hh electronic wonderful success story ought repeat company begin year ago capital employ people sale target million year expansion bar hill factory provide possibly job month say founder managing director mr mike harrison firm make range audio electronic sound equipment television radio theatre recording studio professional musician company particularly strong use new technology sort silicon chip microprocessor technology mrs thatcher say time lifeline british industry export threequarter turnover country mrs thatcher impressed see lot hh equipment point ship japanese customer s like tell employee modern version take coal newcastle goodness sort salesmanship need country try hh microphone speaker talk pronounce sound produce extremely good natural say hh clearly success story base high quality ideal strong cosmopolitan attitude team spirit work laserscan grow sale year ago target million year employee see technique firm develop digitise map laser beam computer use cartographer civilian military role mrs thatcher see laserscan machine produce threedimensional image give area land topography variety angle machine draw map computer memory bank second detail garden shed include pleased technical director mr peter woodsford say system laserscan call maggie short scientific system say tell dump file say mr woodsford oh not youd well find quip end visit mrs thatcher ask news specific benefit scientist prime minister gain interest sake oh yes use politician sit backside london read bit paper say not learn need know ve get go come today specially ask work company know grow small beginning create new product give people new interesting job cambridge outside seam coal like say wealth talent inside outside university work closely turn idea product product sale copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Speeches, etc. First, Sir Frank TaylorSir Frank, thank you for that wonderful introduction. We are indeed grateful for all the work that you yourself do for Britain and the example which Taylor Woodrow and all of its employees set to many other companies. I come here really in a sense of admiration for your achievements. You have, in fact, literally built the foundation of our cities, built the foundation of many of our industries, much of our commerce, much of our new development in energy and much of our public services, and you've done it because you have always believed in excellence and you believed in delivering what you said you'd deliver, and you believe in quality and that really is the supreme way to get on. So I come first in a sense of admiration for your achievement; secondly because you really are a wonderful example of free enterprise. Now you, Frank, ventured just a little bit into politics but you know there's one thing you notice across the world: the countries which have extinguished free enterprise have extinguished freedom at the same time. The two go absolutely together, so in practising the principles of free enterprise you are not only building up a wonderful company but you are, in fact, ensuring the freedoms which we take for granted until we observe what their absence does to the lives of citizens in other countries, and third, when things have sometimes been difficult, and I know exactly what its like in industry, if things are going well you are worried that they will not be next year and if they're not going well you wonder if they are ever going to get better, so you have always got a worrying time, but if ever you have a worrying time you have not stopped at looking for business at home; you've gone the world over and got every sort and kind of award for your achievements. Indeed the map which I saw as I came in, which shows where Taylor Woodrow operates all over the world, seems to me an excellent way of learning one's geography. There is scarcely a country in which you do not operate and in doing that you've been working not only for the future of the company but for the benefit of Britain as a whole, because we could not have the standard of living we enjoy without the exports and the export earnings which you are in fact achieving for us, and in doing that you also act as [end p1] ambassadors for Britain, because as you know I always believe that Britain is quite the best country in the world and we are quite the best people. Every time I go abroad I come back reinforced in that belief, and I just hope that the work we do overseas demonstrates that more clearly than the speeches of politicians. Fourthly, you know that if we are to keep one step ahead of our competitors we have got to invest in research and development. I remember several years ago reading a book. It was one of the Peter Drucker books—he's American but he does write some very good things, I mean we might as well let them have just a little bit of the advantage as well as us—and I came across a chapter called the “Knowledge Based Society” . It's absolutely right; we're moving into industries in which we shall not achieve and not keep ahead unless they are based on new knowledge, the application of that new knowledge and technology in the latest techniques. So to keep one step ahead we must invest in these things and as a matter of fact when we do invest in them we are very good at it, very good at it. We have some of the best research; we are not always as quick as some other companies in applying it to technology. You are, and our problem is to apply the results of the excellent research we do in this country to the technology and to translate that technology into commercial advantage and here you are, you are doing it and I come to pay tribute to you for that and to say that you are an example to many others. Now fifthly and finally Sir Frank, you quite clearly expect something of Governments, and indeed with doing all that in private enterprise you are entitled to. Our job is not to hinder your progress, our job is to facilitate the inventiveness, the resourcefulness, the initiative and the endeavour you have here so that you may work for the betterment of your family and your company and for Britain. We have made our start. Today we see here bricks and mortar and equipment but we see also in industry a living structure of human beings and you don't stimulate industries, you stimulate people, and if you stimulate people you will get the results. That's the [end p2] approach which we have adopted and that's why we put top of our list, tax incentives at every single income level whether it be by taking people out of tax because their incomes are not high enough to pay it, whether it be the real middle income groups who know they are paying too much of their earnings away and believe quite rightly they could spend it better themselves than Governments could, so a bigger proportion back into the pockets of those who earn it, and always, always we have to stimulate those who are capable of having the new ideas and those who give leadership, without which the rest of us would have nothing to follow. So we have made a start on that, we have made a start on making more land available by suspending the Community Land Act and we have made a start on cutting the amount of work which you have to do in filing cabinets because we believe that you can do better if you have less to do in that direction. We know that if we make these opportunities available companies like this will take advantage of them. I know you're not called employees in this company; you're called team workers. Well, I'm a member of a team too, and I hope that our team will help your team to do your team's job and I hope your team will help our team to go in the direction we are going. (I am not only Prime Minister, the important thing is I'm First Lord of the Treasury.) Many congratulations and it gives me great pleasure to perform this opening ceremony. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc sir frank taylorsir frank thank wonderful introduction grateful work britain example taylor woodrow employee set company come sense admiration achievement fact literally build foundation city build foundation industry commerce new development energy public service ve believe excellence believe deliver say d deliver believe quality supreme way come sense admiration achievement secondly wonderful example free enterprise frank venture little bit politic know s thing notice world country extinguish free enterprise extinguish freedom time absolutely practise principle free enterprise build wonderful company fact ensure freedom grant observe absence life citizen country thing difficult know exactly like industry thing go worried year go wonder go well get worrying time worrying time stop look business home ve go world get sort kind award achievement map see come show taylor woodrow operate world excellent way learn one geography scarcely country operate ve work future company benefit britain standard living enjoy export export earning fact achieve act end ambassador britain know believe britain good country world good people time abroad come reinforce belief hope work overseas demonstrate clearly speech politician fourthly know step ahead competitor get invest research development remember year ago read book peter drucker book he american write good thing mean let little bit advantage come chapter call knowledge base society absolutely right move industry shall achieve ahead base new knowledge application new knowledge technology late technique step ahead invest thing matter fact invest good good good research quick company apply technology problem apply result excellent research country technology translate technology commercial advantage come pay tribute example fifthly finally sir frank clearly expect government private enterprise entitle job hinder progress job facilitate inventiveness resourcefulness initiative endeavour work betterment family company britain start today brick mortar equipment industry live structure human being not stimulate industry stimulate people stimulate people result s end approach adopt s list tax incentive single income level take people tax income high pay real middle income group know pay earning away believe rightly spend well government big proportion pocket earn stimulate capable have new idea leadership rest follow start start make land available suspend community land act start cut work filing cabinet believe well direction know opportunity available company like advantage know call employee company call team worker m member team hope team help team team job hope team help team direction go prime minister important thing m lord treasury congratulation give great pleasure perform opening ceremony copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

Ep. 1902 - The Most Catastrophic Press Conference of ALL TIME Published: 2/9/2024 (in RSS feed: 1h 16m 49s) So Joe Biden's presidency is over, I'm just gonna put it out there right now. His presidency is over. It was ended yesterday when the special counsel, Robert Hur, the person who is investigating Joe Biden's mishandling of classified materials, issued a report essentially suggesting that Joe Biden is non compost mentis, that the dude does not have a functioning brain. He said it in the report, we're gonna get to all the details because Joe Biden then proceeded to blow himself up like the Challenger. It's the most disastrous press conference in American history. It was a shocking day in politics yesterday. It all began with the usual, which is Joe Biden going out on the stump and making dumb mistakes and seeming as though he's not all there. So yesterday Joe Biden was giving a speech in the middle of the speech. He started again babbling, nonsensically, missing up basic terms here. Here he was. Yesterday When I said when I, we pushed all these programs, I said, I'm gonna be president of everybody, whether you live in a red state or a green state, Red state or a green state. And this is every single day with Joe Biden. We've been doing this for a couple of years at this point where every clip you play of Joe Biden, he's screwing something up. And as I've said before, watching a Joe Biden press conference at this point is like watching a wallenda cross, a tightrope over a volcano. You're not watching because you're hopeful that he's gonna make it. You're watching because you wanna be watching. If God forbid, he falls off the tightrope. And yesterday Joe Biden didn't just fall off the tightrope, he jumped off the tightrope directly into the political volcano. Now again, all this began with this usual day, this sort of mistake. Kane Jean Pire is increasingly being asked to defend the fact that Joe Biden is not all there. Here she was yesterday giving a variety of excuses for why he had screwed up a bunch of different things over the course of the last week or so. This happens, You know it, it is, it happens to all of us and it is common. But I do want to not, I do wanna make sure we don't forget what the overall arching kind of theme, what he's trying to say about, about our leadership on the global stage. What Do you say then to Americans who have that concern and they see three times in just a couple days, the president getting the name of a leader wrong and referencing somebody who is deceased. So Look, again, as you just stated in your question, to me, I, I just laid out other, other leaders in their community or elected officials who have done the same. So it is not, not uncommon When you're in the in meetings with the president, how often does he confuse names like we've seen him? I have not seen him do that. She's okay. She's lying. He does it all the time. And so the line from the White House has been, sure he is up there in age, but you screw things up to you forget where your keys are, you forget where your phone is. That doesn't mean that he can't be president of the United States. And then yesterday, in the middle after of the afternoon, the special council report on Joe Biden's mishandling of classified documents breaks. And there are two headlines from the report. One of the headlines is that Joe Biden is quote unquote exonerated. Now that headline buries a lot of misuse of classified materials. We're gonna go through the whole report. But the big headline is that the real reason that they are not actively going to prosecute Joe Biden for mishandling classified materials is because they believe that he's a senile old man. So let's go through the report in all of its detail and then we'll get to what again is the hindenberg of presidential press conferences owe the humanity. I mean, Joe Biden set himself almost on literal fire. We'll get to more on this in just a moment. First 20 bucks barely gets you anything these days in inflation keeps spiraling. But you know what? 20 bucks will get you from the cell phone company. I use Pure Talk. You can get unlimited talk text and plenty of 5G data for just 20 bucks a month. Pure Talk gives you the same quality of service as your current cell phone provider. But for about half the cost, the average family saves almost a thousand dollars a year. All with no contracts and no activation fees. You can switch to Pure Talk and keep the phone and phone number you currently use or you can take advantage of their latest great deals on the latest iPhones and Androids making the switch is incredibly easy. 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Clearly there were classified materials that were in his possession but says the Department of Justice, were not gonna prosecute him. Quote, we conclude no criminal charges are warranted in this matter. We would reach the same conclusion even if Department of Justice policy did not foreclose criminal charges against a sitting president. Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included one marked classified documents about military and foreign policy in Afghanistan and two notebooks containing Mr. Biden's handwritten entries about issues of national security and foreign policy implicating sensitive intelligence sources and methods. FBI agents recovered these materials from the garage offices and basement den in Mr. Biden's Wilmington at Delaware Home. However, for the reasons summarized below, we conclude the evidence does not establishes Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Now what exactly did Biden have in his possession? Apparently he had documents from fall 2009 that had classification markings up to top secret sensitive compartmented information level. Those were found in a box in Biden's, Delaware garage that contained other materials of great personal significance to him and that he appears to have personally used and accessed as well. These materials were mostly proof of a stand that Mr. Biden took that he regarded as very important, which was all about how he was pushing Barack Obama to basically just pull full scale out of Afghanistan, which of course Joe Biden then did as president when he became president in the most disastrous fashion in American history. Now the report continues and he said, and and, and the special counsel says that Joe Biden certainly knew this was illegal or should have known it was illegal to keep these classified materials. And this report reads a lot like the Hillary Clinton report that eventually exonerated her from James Comey basically saying she was guilty. But okay, so what this this report really is, is he's guilty of mishandling classified materials. But so Joe Biden should have known this was illegal. According to the special counsel Robert Hur, some evidence suggests Mr. Biden knew he could not keep classified handwritten notes at home after leaving Office. Biden who had decades of experience with classified information was deeply familiar with the measures taken to safeguard classified information and the need for those measures to prevent harm to national security. In fact, twice in 2017, Joe Biden visited the National Archive Skiff to review his classified note cards while writing his book. But he kept his notebooks, which also contained classified information in unlocked drawers at home. He had strong motivations to do so and to ignore the rules for properly handling the classified information in his notebooks, he consulted those notebooks liberally during hours of discussions with his ghostwriter and viewed them as highly private and valued possessions with which he was unwilling to part. In fact, while reading aloud from his notebook, and this is the most damning part, while reading aloud from his notebook, Mr. Biden listed four points he made about the Iraq situation. During a July 7th, 2015 meeting, Biden explained to his ghost writer a person named Mark Wanzer, that he had made a similar argument years earlier during the 2009 debate about the troop surge in Afghanistan. Biden told Wanzer he had sent Obama a 40 page handwritten memo arguing against the deployment of additional troops in Afghanistan, mid-sentence. During the interview, Biden said in a matter of fact tone that he had quote just found all the classified stuff downstairs. So again, first rule of priming folks, don't do it on tape, Joe Biden did it on tape. He admits full scale on the tape in his words that he quote just found all the classified stuff downstairs, okay? Which is him admitting that he has classified stuff and it is downstairs. It is no different than Donald Trump bragging to a reporter that he had in front of them a classified set of documents all about Iran, for example. This is the same thing he says, I have, I just found all the classified stuff downstairs and that should be open and shut case a violation of criminal law when it comes to classified information and mishandling thereof. And as we see our, our political bosses in this country, they get treatment that no one else would receive. When my wife doctor was working at Veterans Affairs, if she had walked out of the affairs building, this is when she was in residency with violations of HIPAA material, she could have been prosecuted. Joe Biden is bragging to his ghost writers that he has classified documents at the highest level in his cabinet downstairs on tape. and they still didn't prosecute him. The special counsel found that there is evidence that after his vice presidency, Biden willfully retained marked classified documents about Afghanistan and unmarked classified handwritten notes in his notebooks, both of which he stored in unsecured places in his house. And it's clearly Biden's material. It's not as though it got mixed in. And we know this because this is kind of funny. He wrote on one of the folders, Afghanistan, but he spelled Afghanistan without the H. Remember this, this is Captain Brilliance over here. He can't spell the word Afghanistan, but he knows all about Afghanistan policy. According to the special counsel, Mr. Biden said, the handwritten label on the folder looks like his handwriting. And the distinctive misspelling of Afghanistan confirms this. Biden repeatedly used this or a similar misspelling in handwritten notes as vice president. And before that notes, he took a senator dating back to 1980. So again, I mean let, let's be real about this. Joe Biden was never any intellectual great shakes. The fact that he's been misspelling the word Afghanistan for literally 40 years is kind of amazing. Okay, so the special counsel then finds a series of excuses for why Joe Biden should not be prosecuted. So number one, the special counsel says we expect Biden's defense at trial would be he thought that his notebooks were personal property and he was allowed to take them home even if they contained classified information. During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was emphatic declaring his notebooks are quote, my property. And every president before me has done the exact same thing. And now that sounds a lot like President Trump. Frankly, president Trump has been claiming over and over and over that every document in his possession is mine. And that's actually been the real excuse. It's not as though he was going to disseminate documents to the Russians or something. He's like, these are my documents I'm keeping. I mean, that's exactly what Biden is saying, except Biden is saying, who are my documents I'm keeping? So that excuse for not prosecuting Biden looks very much like the defense that Donald Trump is going to use in his own classified documents. Mishandling Kays. Furthermore, the place where Biden was storing this stuff, not exactly the most secure location quote, we expect many jurors to be struck by the place where the Afghanistan documents were ultimately found in Biden's, Delaware home in a badly damaged box in the garage near a collapsed dog crate, a dog bed, a Zappos box in an empty bucket, a broken lamp wrapped with duct tape, potting soil, and synthetic firewood. So clearly handling classified materials in the way they should be handled. Now the special counsel does go out of his way to try to distinguish Biden from Trump saying quote, most notably, after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, Mr. Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return documents for months, he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it. In contrast, Biden turned in classified documents to the National Archives, et cetera. Now is that dispositive on a difference between Trump and Biden? Not really, because what that really suggests is that Joe Biden was perfectly willing to mishandle classified documents for years on end. And only when he got caught that is when he turned over all the documents, which doesn't relieve you of the responsibility not to mishandle classified documents. If I take home classified documents for 10 years and I mishandle them and I leave them out everywhere, and then you come to me and say, turn in the documents, and then I turn in the documents, that doesn't mean I didn't do a a criminal act before. And by the way, when it comes to Hillary Clinton, she actually like bleach bit her hard drive and all that. But none of this, none of this is the real reason. They're not prosecuting Joe Biden. The real reason they're not prosecuting Joe Biden is because special counsel Robert Heard makes it clear in the report, this is what's so devastating for Biden. He makes it clear over and over and over again in this report that Joe Biden is no longer mentally fit to be even in the, even in the defense box, let alone presidents of the United States. What I'm about to read to you are all direct quotes from the special counsel report making absolutely clear that Joe Biden is no longer with us and not only that has not been with us for years. Get to more on this in a moment. First, nobody likes talking about life insurance. It's dark, right? You gotta think about death. But here's the thing, once you get out of the way, it's great. It's off your list and it's an important thing you just did for your family. Start shopping right now with Policy Genius. Find the right policy to protect your family today. Give yourself the peace of mind that comes with knowing that if something were God forbid to happen to you, your family can cover all their expenses while getting back on their feet. 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Head over to policygenius.com/shapiro or click the link in the description to get your free life insurance quote. See how much you could save. That's policygenius.com/shapiro. Here's what the report says, quote Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited both during his recorded interviews with a ghost writer in 2017 and in his interview with our office in 2023. Now remember, the year is 2024. This report is saying that Joe Biden's memory was going in 2017. That is full on seven years ago and it's gotten worse since then. Quote, we have also considered that at trial Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury as he did during our interview of him as a sympathetic well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory. So In other words, his defense is going to be that he is a nice old gent who doesn't remember things anymore, which is that a great description of what you want in the Oval Office. Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he's someone for whom many jurors want to identify reasonable doubt. It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him by then a former president, well into his eighties of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness. So they're saying that they're just gonna see a geriatric Dodd and they're gonna let him off. More quotes from the Special counsel report quote, Mr. Biden's memory also appears to have significant limitations, both at the time he spoke to his ghost writer Wanzer in 2017 as evidenced by the recorded conversations and today as evidenced by his recorded interview with our office, Mr. Biden's recorded conversations with his monitor from 2017 are often painfully slow with Mr. Biden, struggling to remember events and straining at times to read and relay his own notebook entries. Another quote in his interview with our office, Mr. Biden's memory was even worse. He did not remember when he was vice president. This is mind boggling stuff folks. Joe Biden sits down with the special counsel investigating him over classified documents. He's president of the United States at the time. He does not remember when he was vice president forgetting on the first day of his interview when his term ended, if it was 2013, when did I stop being vice president and forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began in 2009? Am I still vice president Now? Call me crazy. But it seems to me that the presidents of the United States should remember when he was vice president of the United States. Like in terms of the years, that seems pretty important. Like I remember the year that we started our company here at DailyWire. Pretty important year. It's 2015, I remember it's pretty important. There's a lot going on that year that's not being vice president of the United States. He was vice president of the, he couldn't remember the years he was vice president. It gets worse. Quote. He did not remember even within several years when his son Bo died. Mind-boggling. Absolutely mind boggling. I mean, Joe Biden pulls out the story of Bo's death all the time on the campaign trail when asked difficult questions all the time. It started off as sort of a sad thing that he would, that he would talk about his deceased son and then became obnoxious and terrible because he would do it in the worst possible circumstances. He'd be talking to the family of a dead soldier and he would suddenly be talking about Bo and implying that Bo had died in Iraq in service or something. But now we are learning from the special counsel that he didn't, he quote did not remember even within several years when his son Bo died and his memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan debate that was once so important to him. Among other things he mistakenly said, he had a real difference of opinion with General Carl Eikenberry, when in fact Eikenberry was an ally who Mr. Biden cited approvingly in his Thanksgiving memo to President Obama. There's more quote, given Mr. Biden's tendency toward loose talk with Wanzer and Mr. Biden's limited precision and recall during his interview with our office discussed above, reasonable jurors may hesitate to place too much evidentiary weight on a single eight word utterance to his wanted from almost eight years ago in the absence of other more direct evidence, In other words, the reason that we're not prosecuting him over saying to his ghost writer, I have a bunch of classified information downstairs is because he's too old and he's too senile. And then they reiterate, Biden will likely present himself to the jury as a sympathetic, well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory while he is and must be accountable for his actions. He is after all the president of the United States based on our direct observations of him. Biden is someone for whom many jurors who want to search for reasonable doubt, quote, we believe some of the same evidence that supports reasonable doubt for classified Afghanistan's documents also supports reasonable doubts for the notebooks, including Mr. Biden's cooperation with the investigation, his diminishing faculties in advancing age and his sympathetic demeanor. Again, nice old senile man is the verdict. That's why he's not going to jail. This report is so much more devastating than a simple indictment would've been a simple indictment. Biden probably would've gotten off. It would've killed Trump's classified documents indictment as well. But the stain of a special prosecutor saying we cannot prosecute him because he's old and senile is devastating. And of course the Biden team picked up on that right away. They sent a letter his lawyers to Robert her quote, we do not believe the report's treatment of President Biden's memory is accurate or appropriate. The report uses highly prejudicial language to describe a commonplace occurrence among witnesses, A lack of recall of years old events. Such comments have no place in a Department of Justice report, particularly one that in the first paragraph announces no criminal charges are warranted and that the evidence does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt. And then they make an excuse, the excuse they use for why Joe Biden can't recall when his son died or when he was vice president is quote, his interview began the day after the October 7th attacks on Israel. That's going to be the actual line. That's going to be the actual line. Now I ask you, is that a good defense? So there's a major international crisis and the president gets more senile and that apparently is supposed to be a defense to his senility. See, that's why we hire you for the job is because you're supposed to handle the 4:00 AM phone call as Hillary Clinton once called it, with some level of mental acuity. If you lose your faculties the minute an an international emergency breaks out, what are you good for? What are you good for? So President Biden then put out a written statement in which he said, quote, over my career in public service, I've always worked to protect America's security. I take these questions seriously. No one has ever questioned that. Okay? He didn't make any comment in his original statement about his lack of mental faculty at this point. Jake Tapper on CNN was correctly skeptical of Biden's original explanation. And you could see many members of the media were pretty critical of the defense because we can all see it. We can all see it. Everybody has been told in the media to shut up about Joe Biden being senile. He's senile. He's been senile for several years at this point. We all know it. Every time you watch him talk, you see it. Every time you watch him walk, you can see he no longer is in control of himself. This is not a giant secret. We've all just been gaslit for years on end. We get some more on this in a moment. First, if you're a business owner or a hiring manager, you know it's rough out there right now to find people good enough to fill the positions you need to fill. Fortunately, you don't need luck. To find top talent for your team, you need ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash DailyWire. ZipRecruiter's User friendly technology guides you to finding top talent when you post your job. ZipRecruiter's Intuitive matching technology presents you with a list of qualified candidates. Once you've reviewed your list of qualified candidates, you can swiftly invite your top choices to apply this streamlined process encourages them to apply sooner, allowing you to fill that role as fast as humanly possible. 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And its comments about President Biden's faculties and his memory to come out because twice this week he has acted as if he, in 2021, spoke to European leaders who have been dead for years once he confused Francois Miral, who died in 1996 with Emmanuel Macron, who is still very much alive. And another time he was referring to Angela Merkel until recently the the Chancellor of Germany and referred to Helmut Cole, who I think died in 2017. So this memory issue is already out there. But I wanna know how many voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, you think know the difference between, and They no, they don't know, but they, but they Know when Somebody or are gonna cast their vote. Well, you asked, you asked, Sorry. Okay. Or Are gonna cast their vote for president based on whether someone is naming Emmanuel Macron or Fran Francois Mi. They might, whose name they probably don't even know. But it's Not about that. It's about faculty and memory and, and, and whether or not somebody they perceive is competent. Okay? So Tapper is speaking for virtually all Americans on this whatever Joe Biden's random failure of the day. It's not about what he said when he mixes up a dead French president with a live French president or mix up Germany and France. The problem of course is that everyone knows, everyone can look and see that Joe Biden is no longer in control of his faculty. So this is now emergency time and fairly late last night for Joe Biden, which is to say 7 45 at night. We know that he usually calls a little at like 7:00 PM because again, the man is, he's currently on the old age home schedule. They have him in political hospice. This president, it's really sad, honest to God, it's really, really sad. He's my president because he was elected president. And it's sad to watch the president of the United States not in control of himself. So they, they called a presser an emergency presser at 7 45. Now, there's only one goal for calling an emergency press conference, and that is to blow up the widespread assumption that Joe Biden is not in control of himself, right? The idea was going to be that a normal political cycle, what would happen is the president would come out, he would be fully in control, he'd be ready to go fully in control, and he would then demonstrate that the special counsel was just wrong. That he was having an off day or that he hadn't had a lot of sleep last night or that the special counsel hates him. But clearly this is a person who is not only in command, this is a person who is at the peak of his powers. So Joe Biden comes out last night, we're gonna go through this whole press conference because it is the most disastrous press conference in presidential history. It bar none, bar none. I've seen a lot of them folks. I've been following this stuff for over 20 years and I've seen a lot of tape. This is easily the worst press conference of all time because not only does Joe Biden show that he's not in control of his faculties, he then proceeds to commit the same bies that led the special counsel to say that he's not in control of his faculties. So this thing starts off, and as always Joe Biden, he's kinda like a windup toy at this point. The first several minutes you're like, okay, well he looks awake and then as whatever they've shot him up with wears off, he starts to fail and the battery starts to sputter and the light behind his eyes starts to dim. You can see it happening in real time, which is why it's important that we watch the whole thing. So Joe Biden staggers out at about 7 55. He's 10, 15 minutes late to his own press conference and is 7 58, I guess it's 13 minutes late to his own press conference. And he proceeds to, to then speak about the special counsel report. As You know, the special counsel releases finding today about their look into my handling of classified documents. I was pleased to see he reached the firm conclusion that no charges should be brought against me in this case. This was an exhaustive investigation going back more than 40 years, even in the 1970s when I was still a new United States senator. The special counsel acknowledged I cooperated completely. I did not throw up any roadblocks. I sought no delays. In fact, I was so determined to give the special counsel what he needed. I went forward with a five hour in person, five hour in person interview over two days on October the eighth and ninth of last year. Even though Israel had just been attacked by Hamas on the seventh, and I was very occupied. It was in the middle of handling an international crisis. I was especially pleased to see special counsel make clear the stark distinction and difference between this case and Mr. Trump's case. Special counsel wrote and I quote, several material distinctions between Mr. Trump's case and Mr. Biden's are clear, continuing to quote most notably, after giving multiple chances to return classified documents to avoid prosecution, Mr. Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it. In contrast, we went on to say, Mr. Biden turned in classified documents to the National Archives and the Department of Justice consented to the search of multiple locations, including his home, sat for a voluntary interview and in other ways cooperated with the Investigation. Okay, so pause it there for a second. You can see obviously he's reading off teleprompter, right? He's not pausing to think or anything. He's, he's reading a quote off the teleprompter and the slurring is getting worse. Again, I'm hesitant to analyze the affect of Joe Biden's speaking because what's what's there to say. But this entire press conference conference was designed regarding, we get to more on this in just one moment. First, I need to talk to you about something terrible, something absolutely terrible. I, of course, speaking about asparagus, but You know that's okay. I don't need asparagus. I make up for my vegetable deficiencies by taking Balance, Of, Nature, fruits and veggies. Balance Of, Nature fruits and veggies are the most convenient way to ensure you get your daily intake of fruits and veggies. Balance Of Nature uses an advance called vacuum process that encapsulates fruits and vegetables into Whole foods supplements without sacrificing those natural antioxidants. The capsules are completely void of the additives, fillers, extracts, synthetics, pesticides, or added sugar. The only thing imbalance of nature's fruits and veggies capsules are You. know the fruits and the veggies. You need nutrients to function at your best every single day. Balance Of Nature helps to do just that. Like right now I'm on the road. Normally I might get sick, but I've been taking Balance, Of, Nature, so I feel pretty good. Go to Balance Of Nature dot com. Use promo code Shapiro to get 35% off your first set of fruits and veggies and an additional 10 bucks off every additional set you buy. That's Balance Of Nature dot com promo code Shapiro, go check them out right now, if you like me, are having a hard time getting that daily quotient of fruits and veggies. You need to check out Balance Of Nature right now. That's Balance Of Nature dot com promo code Shapiro. The entire press conference was about can Joe Biden handle himself for longer than five minutes? We are currently two minutes into this press conference. He's already starting to fade. I've seen the headlines since the report was released about my willful retention of documents. This, these assertion is not only misleading, they're just plain wrong. On page two 15, if you had a chance, I know it's a long, it's a thick document. On page two 15, the report of the special counsel found the exact opposite. Here's what he wrote. There is in fact a shortage of evidence that I willfully retain classified materials related to Afghanistan. On page 12, the special counsel also wrote for another documents, the decision to decline criminal charges was straightforward. The evidence suggests that Mr. Biden did not willfully retain these documents. The evidence who said I did not willfully retain these documents. In addition, I know there's some attention paid to some language in the report about my recollection of events. There's even reference that I don't remember when my son died. How in the hell dare he raise that? Okay, pause it for a second. Okay, this is where it starts to go off the rails for Joe Biden. Truly off the rails so far, he's just been reading from the report. Now he has no defense for the claim that he doesn't know when his son died. So instead he tries to substitute outrage. So the claim was that Joe Biden will be found by a jury to be an affable elderly gentleman who is not in control of his faculties. Joe Biden went out there to prove that he is in control of his faculties. Instead, he spent the rest of the press conference demonstrating that he is in fact not affable, that he's in fact not likable. So this is where things start to go totally sideways for him. Frankly, when I was asked the question, I thought to myself, wasn't any of their damn business? Wait, what? Let me tell you something. Some of you have commented. I wear since the day he died every single day. The rosary he got from our lady of, Oh no. Every Memorial Day we hold a service remembering him Attending. Okay, pause it right there, our friends. And he, he literally in the middle of his big dramatic moment, cannot remember where they got the rosary for Bo. I mean we, we are three minutes into this press conference. It started at 7 58. It is now 8:01 PM Eastern Time and the president of the United States trying to demonstrate that he's in full control of his faculties and getting into the heightened emotional moment of trying to show that he knows every detail about Bo himself, steps directly onto the landmine, mentioning a thing. No one asked about this rosary that he was going to use as a prop. He pulls it out and then cannot remember where he got it in the middle of the presser. That's just the beginning folks. It gets worse. Family and the people who loved him, I don't need anyone, I don't need anyone to remind me when he passed away if he passed away. Simple truth is I sat for a five honor review over two days of events. It's getting worse. Went back 40 years at the same time I was managing international crisis. Their task was to make a decision about whether to move forward with charges in this case. That's their decision to make. That's a counsel's decision to make. That's his job. and they decided not to move forward for any extraneous commentary. They don't know what they're talking about. It has no place in this report. Okay, Stop it there. That that's not even true. Of course it has a place in the report. The report is not just about whether or not Joe Biden mishandled classified documents. He very clearly did. The question is why you're not prosecuting him if he mishandled classified documents. And the answer is 'cause we're not gonna prosecute a C nine old man when he says that. It's not their place to analyze that. Of course it is. That's what prosecutorial discretion is. This happens literally every day for prosecutors across the country. They have to decide whether they believe they'll be able to succeed in a case. And one of the factors in whether you're gonna be able to succeed is the state of the defendant in the case. So Joe Biden, again, trying to walk right past the question, it's not going to work. And again, we're four minutes in. I keep, I keep time checking this because all he had to do was give a pressor in which he said things and didn't answer questions for probably five minutes. And within three, he's screwing up basic matters of fact. He's mischaracterizing the report and he's fading incredibly badly. Here we go. The matter is now closed. I'm gonna continue What? I've always focused on my job of being president of the United States of America. I thank you and I'll take some questions. President Biden, something the special counsel said in his report is that one of the reasons you were not charged is because in his description you are a well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory. I'm well-meaning, and I'm an elderly man and I know what the hell I'm doing. I've been president and I put this country back on his feet. I don't need his recommendation. It's totally how Bad is your memory? And can you continue as president? My memory is so bad I let you speak. That's, that's what do You know? Your Memory has gotten worse, Mr. President, My memory has not gotten, my memory is fine. My memory. Take a look at what I've done since I've become president. None of you thought I could pass any of the things I got passed. How'd that happen? You know. I guess I just forgot what was going on. Pause it for a second. Okay, so he's not clearing up anything about his memory here. He's simply saying, I just, I did a lot of stuff as President of the United and he tries a failed joke about why he's calling on Peter Ducey. My memory is so bad that I even called on you. Ah ha ha. This isn't gonna work. He looks physically assaulted when the reporters start pestering him with questions. As you'll see for the rest of this presser, which doesn't last very long, the president of the United States is facing incoming questions. This happens all the time. Every president in my lifetime has been in a press scrum. The press asks many questions. They're talking over one another. They don't look like this. He looks, I promise you, he looks like one of my small children. When there are loud noises in the room, he looks, he looks physically assaulted by the questions. It's really bad and it gets significantly worse. You think it's bad so far. And we're five minutes in. Wait another 30 seconds. We'll get to more of the most disastrous press conference in presidential history in just one second. First Valentine's Day is coming up fast. Jeremy's has the perfect gifts to surprise your better half. Whether you're shopping for him or her, Jeremy's has a bundle they will love. From delicious chocolate to smooth razors, to the iconic leftist tears, Tumblr. And to celebrate, Jeremy's is offering a deal. You will love Get a 20% discount on all Valentine's Day bundles. That is correct, 20% off. But you have to act fast. 'cause today is the last day for express shipping on time for Valentine's arrival. This offer is here for a limited time. Go to jeremy's razors.com right now. Order your Valentine's Day bundle before they're gone. Jeremy's Valentine's Day sale, the best way to treat your Valentine and yourself. Also Super Bowl this Sunday, February 11th, but instead of being subjected to the woke commentary and discussions of Taylor Swift every two seconds, why don't you join Crane and Company's live stream and enjoy the matchup. They'll be going live at 6:15 PM Eastern. Tune in on DailyWire Plus or the Crane and Company YouTube channel for live betting and play by play analysis. We'll get to more on this in a second. First, despite the rate cuts anticipated by financial experts, inflation continues to rise. 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He has already failed to come up with where his son's rosary came from. And again, that is a, that's an own goal. Nobody even asked him about it. He has suggested that his memory is not in fact fading in any way, shape or form, while simultaneously fading in energy. He looks like he's being assaulted by the questions that he himself solicited. It gets worse. Folks, we're five minutes in. It doesn't last much longer, but it's a bad period of time. Here we go. You have concerns about your age. How are you going to assuage them? And do you fear that this report is only going to fuel further concerns about your age Only by some of you, Mr. President, Criminal liability today, if you take responsibility for at least being careless with classified material, I take responsibility for not having seen exactly what my staff was doing there. It goes in and points out things that appeared in my garage, things that came outta my home. Things that were moved, were moved. Not by me, but my staff, but my staff. Mr. President, Mr. President, president. President. Why Mr. P, Mr. President, If you can't see it, folks, he's like blinking. He's people Assaulted months. When you were asked about your age, you would respond with the words, watch me. Watch. Many American people have been watching and they have expressed concerns about your age. That is Your judgment. That is your judgment to public. That is not the judgment of the press. They expressed concerns about your mental acuity. They say that you are too old, Mr. President, in December, you told me that you believe there are many other Democrats who could defeat Donald Trump. So why does it have to be you? Now, why? What is your answer to that Question? Because I'm the most qualified person in this country. Be president of the United States and finish the job I started. Mr. Pause the for a second. So couple things. One, when he says that's your judgment, not the judgment of the press. First of all, that is the judgment of the voters. Every poll taken for the last two years has suggested that the American people have deep and apparently well-grounded concerns about Joe Biden's mental state. And then when he says he's the person who is most qualified to be president in the United States, that is a rather audacious claim. How many people really believe, how many Democrats really believe that? That there's no one else. No one else in the United States who's better qualified to be president of the United States than Joe Biden? Nobody believes that. Which is why this dude has a serious problem on his hands. President, why are you refusing the names of oral matters? Thank you everyone much. I did not share classified information. I did not share with your ghostwriter. My ghostwriter. That's a lie. That's a lie. He's just lying. It's not true. The report itself says he shared classified information with his ghostwriter. It says it straight up when he says that he did not share classified information with his ghostwriter. He's not telling the truth. It is a lie. Okay, so he's lying and he's forgetting things in a press conference that is supposed to be how he is a totally with the truth teller. Continue. Not guarantee you did not. But special counsel said he did not say that. Okay. Did not say That. But Mr. President, lemme answer your question. The fact of the matter is, what I didn't want repeated, I didn't want him to not, and I didn't read it to him, was I had written a long memorandum to President Obama, why we should not be in this in Afghanistan. And I was of this multiple pages. And so what I was referring to, I said classified it. I should have said it was should be private because it was a contact between the president and the vice president as to what was going on. That's what he is referring to. It was not classified information in that document. That was not class So much. Thank you. He called on me. When you look back at this incident, is there anything you would do differently now? And do you think that a special prosecutor should have been appointed in the first place in both of these cases? First of all, what I would've done is oversee the transfer of the material that was in my office, in my offices. I should have done that. If I go back, I didn't have the responsibility to that. That was my staff was supposed to do that. and they referenced that in the report. And my staff did not do it in the way that, for example, I didn't know how half the boxes got in my garage until I found out staff gathered them up, put them together, and took 'em to the garage in my home. And all the stuff that was in my home was in filing cabinets that were either locked or able to be locked. It was in my house. It wasn't out in like in Mar-a-Lago and a public place where, and none of it was high classified. Didn't have any of that red stuff on it, You know what I mean? Around the corners, none of that. And so I wish I had paid more attention to how the documents were being moved and where I thought they were being moved to the archives. I thought all of was being moved. That's what I thought. Now, what was the last part of your question? Whether A special counsel should have been appointed in this case. And in the case of your rival president, former President, president. I think a special counsel should have been appointed. And the reason I think a special counsel should have been appointed is because I did not want to be in a position that they looked at Trump and weren't gonna look at me just like they looked at the vice president. And the fact is they made a firm conclusion. I did not break the law. Period. Thank you all very, very Much. Okay, so he says, thank you very much. And then he starts to head off. And at this point his staff is like, wow, this was, this was bad. This was not good. But maybe they're breathing a sigh of relief. And then he comes back, he comes back four more. Here we go. Provide hostage negotiation, ordered Israel Hostage negotiation. He comes back for more and his staff are like, they must be screaming bloody murder at this point. What are you doing? I'm In with you. As You know that the conduct of the response in Gaza, in the Gaza Strip has been over the top. I think that as You know, Man, he's not with him. Initially, The president of Mexico CC did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get In. Okay, pause it for a second. So he comes back just to suggest, apparently that Israel's response in Gaza has been over the top. Now the White House is out there clean up on aisle nine trying to say that. What he was saying is that Hamas' response in Gaza, two demands they release, the hostages have been over the top, whatever he means, he clearly is saying something terrible morally there Israel's response to 1200 of its citizens being murdered and 240 taken captive and a hundred still being held captive is not in fact over the top. And it's gross of him to say so to earn votes in Dearborn, Michigan. But then he makes the biggest of all boo boos. He calls Abta Elsi, who is the president of Egypt, the president of Mexico in a press conference designed to show that he's mentally fit and able, and his memory is working just fine in a press conference designed to show that he's with it. He says that the president of Egypt is the president with Mexico of Mexico. What in the act? What, and first of all, this would, this might explain why we have an open border. He keeps calling LSI and asking him to shut the border. And Cece's like the border is shut, meaning like the Gaza border and Biden's like, well, he tells me it's shot. I guess we don't have a close. What the, as someone tweeted, hilariously denial isn't just a river in Mexico. Like, my goodness, my goodness. Remember this is 10 minutes into a press conference. 10 minutes. This has not been two hours. This has not been five hours. This is not the day after October 7th. This is 10 minutes into a press conference. It is not late at night. It is not 10 30 at night. It is not 11 or 12 at night. It is 8:08 PM and president of the United States is calling the president of Egypt, the president of Mexico, while babbling nonsensically about the Israeli response in Gaza. I mean, have you ever seen a political self emulation like this? He dowsed himself in political gasoline. And then after a few attempts set the match a light. My goodness, he's almost done. Here we go. I talked to him. I convinced him open the gate. I talked to Bibe to open the gate on the Israeli side. I've been pushing really hard, really hard to get humanitarian assistance into Gaza. There are a lot of innocent people who are starving, a lot of innocent people who are in trouble and dying. And it's gotta stop, number one. Number two, I was also in the position that I'm the guy that made the case that we have to do much more to increase the amount of material going in, including fuel The wind up twice winding down. I've been on the phone with the Qataris, I've been on the phone with the Egyptians. I've been on the phone with the Saudis to get as much aid as we possibly can into gossip. They're innocent people, innocent women and children who are also in bad badly need of help. And so that's what we're pushing. And I'm pushing very hard now to deal with this hostage ceasefire because as a You know, I've been working tirelessly in this deal, how can I say this? Without revealing to lead to a sustained pause in the fighting, in the actions taking place in in the Gaza Strip. And because I think if we could get the delay for that, the initial delay, oh my Goodness, He's so ahead of it. I think that we would be able to extend that so that we could increase the prospect that this fighting in Gaza changes. There's also negotiations. You may recall in the very beginning, right after, right before Hamas attacked, I was in contact with the Saudis and others to work out a deal where they would recognize Israel's right to exist. Let them make them part of the Middle East and recognize them fully and return for certain things that the United States would commit to do. And the commitment that we were proposing to do related to 2, 2, 2 items. I'm not gonna go in detail, but one of them was to deal with babbling Nonsensically Now protection against their arch enemy to the northwest, A northeast, the Northwest and northeast, The second one by providing ammunition and material for them to defend themselves. Coincidentally, that's the timeframe when this broke out, I have no proof what I'm about to say, but it's not unreasonable to suspect that the Hamas understood what was about to take place and wanted to break it up before it happened. And then he starts walking off and look at him. He's like, he, and then he just kind of staggers off. And that's that. So does anyone believe that this person is mentally fit to be president if you are a Democrat? I have a question for you. You say that Donald Trump is the scariest thing ever to come down the pike. That if Donald Trump becomes president of the United States, that the United States is basically over. There will never be another election. It's Philips, it's Philip Roths that that the plot against America, that orange Hitler is going to be the guy in charge. Are you choosing to keep in place this doddering senile old man? And seriously, it is February, folks. It's February. The election is not until November if you, I can't, it's hard for me to even imagine that Democrats keep 'em at the top of the ticket. And if they do, if they do, are they likely to defeat Donald Trump? So the media have taken various angles on this Biden presser angle. Number one is that everything is just fine. Rachel Maddow tried this one out last night. On M-S-N-B-C, she claim that this is all hubbub about nothing. After all, Joe Biden can ride a bike and eat ice cream occasionally. Here we go. The fact of his age is not something you can rebut. He can't be, you can't tack to, if someone says you're too far left, you can tack to the center. You, you, there's no, the man is 80 years old. He rides a bike lec, but he is the age he is and, and so it's, it's, it's a very useful political attack for that reason. Let's, Okay. Chris Hayes, at least living in the world of reality, Rachel Maddow being local. He does, he does ride a bike. He does ride a bike. Good luck to you with that argument. Now, let's be clear about this. We live in such a crazy political time that that senile old man could very well win reelection. The reason I say this is because I'm old enough to remember a Senate race in Pennsylvania where a person who had a stroke and could not speak or hear won a Senate race simply because so many people did not like Donald Trump in Pennsylvania. So is it quite possible that Biden could win anyway? Sure. Is that a risk that Democrats are gonna wanna take? That's a serious question, is that the, now the problem for them is that the person who is backing up, Joe Biden is Kamala Harris, the least popular politician in American history. She's horrible and everyone knows it. She's actually more likely to lose to Donald Trump than Joe Biden. They'll just hide him in the basement, maybe if they can get away with it, and then eventually he'll pass on, and then eventually Kamala Harris will be president and all the rest. That's the hope. But if they have Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket, they're toast and they don't have a lot of other options. They'd have to find some way of getting rid of Kamala Harris and putting in say, Gavin Newsom or something from California in order to have a much more robust candidate for the presidency. There's been some loose talk about Michelle Obama. She's made pretty clear she's not interested in running at this point. She would be a solution to all the Democrats' problems because she's a black woman, which means that she could supplant Kamala Harris and nobody would say boo inside the Democratic Party, but she apparently doesn't want it. But Democrats have a real pickle on their hands, a serious problem on their hands, and Donald Trump knows it, which is why yesterday Donald Trump was out there slamming Joe Biden's mental acuity, As You know, Iraq should have never happened. That was a balance against Iran and we blew out the balance. And now Iran has essentially Iraq and Iraq doesn't like saying that, but that's the way it is. And it's a shame. The world is in tremendous danger. We're in danger of possibly a World War iii, and we have a man who's absolutely the worst president in the history of our country, can't put two sentences together. He's not gonna be able to negotiate with Putin or she or Kim Jong-un North Korea not gonna be able to negotiate with anybody. All he knows how to do is drop bombs all over the place, meaningless bombs, except they kill a lot of people. Okay, now here's the thing. You're seeing members of the media who are trying to compare Donald Trump's mental acuity to Joe Biden's. There are a lot of questions about Donald Trump in terms of his, for example, impulse control. But if you are trying to pretend that these two men are somehow in the same league in terms of closeness to senility, that is obviously untrue. It's obviously untrue. Now, Trump, for his part, had a pretty awesome day yesterday. First he watched Joe Biden completely blow himself up in the greatest political self own I have ever seen in my lifetime, And. then the Supreme Court basically struck down this idiotic argument that he shouldn't be allowed on the Colorado ballot. So the Supreme Court had a hearing yesterday. During that hearing, virtually all of the justices were slapping around the lawyers suggesting that Donald Trump could simply be kicked off the ballot in Colorado for quote unquote insurrection, despite the fact that insurrection has no actual legal definition sufficient to support that on a federal level. Here is Chief Justice John Roberts, who of course is really no right winger talking to Jason Murray, the Colorado voter's attorney who is defending Colorado's action and kicking Trump off the ballot. I would expect that You know a goodly number of states will say, whoever the Democratic candidate is, you're off the ballot and others for the Republican candidate, you're off the ballot and it'll come down to just a handful of states that are going to decide the presidential election. That's a pretty daunting consequence. Well, certainly, your honor, the fact that there are potential frivolous applications of a constitutional provision isn't a reason. Well, No, hold on. I mean, you might think they're frivolous, but probably the people who are bringing them may not think they're frivolous. Insurrection is a broad, broad term, and if there's some debate about it, I suppose that will go into the decision and then eventually what we would be deciding whether was an insurrection when one president did something as opposed to when somebody else did something else. And what do we do? Do we wait until near the time of counting the ballots and sort of go through which states are valid and which states aren't? Okay, so that's John Roberts taking to task. Jason Murray, the Colorado voter's attorney, and it was pretty much every justice yesterday. It was Justice Kavanaugh, it was Justice Gorsuch. Here was Justice Gorsuch going after the anti-Trump lawyer. Well, Ultimately there still has to be some kind of procedure in place to adjudicate the disqualification. Certainly Congress could impeach a sitting president, but that's the only remedy I'm aware of that exists for, for removal or otherwise negating the authority of a sitting president. Why? Well, on what, on what theory? Because the, the, the section three speaks about disqualification from holding office. You say he is disqualified from holding office from the moment it happens. Correct. But nevertheless, so, so It it operates. You say that there's no no legislation necessary. I thought that was the whole theory of your case and no procedure. It happens automatically. Well, certainly you need a procedure in order to have any remedy to enforce the disqualification, which is I under, that's a whole separate question. That's the de fact of doctrine doesn't work here. Okay, put that aside. He's disqualified from the moment self-executing done. And I would think that a person who would receive a direction from that pers president, former president in your view, would be free to act as he or she wishes without regard to that individual. I don't think so, because I think again, the defacto officer doctrine would nevertheless come into play to say this is No defacto that that doesn't work. Mr. Murray 'cause defacto officer is to ratify the conduct that's done afterwards and and and insulate it from judicial review. Put that aside. I'm not gonna say it again. Put it aside. Okay. So again, getting batted around Trump's gonna be on the ballot. That's just the way that it is. So again, Democrats have a choice. They can leave Joe Biden there and take their chances or they can try to administrate him and throw the entire race into complete and utter chaos. 2024 is indeed the, at least he's not the other guy election. That's effectively where we are right now. We have the Democrats who are actively making the case that at least Joe Biden isn't Trump and we have Trump backers who are making the case to independents and Democrats. Well, at least he's not Joe Biden. Woo, what an election this is going to be. Okay. Meanwhile, Tucker Carlson did his long awaited interview with Vladimir Putin yesterday. I thought Tucker did fine. I mean I thought that he asked some pointed questions, particularly near the end about Evan sic, which were, I think very useful. Those were questions about the Wall Street Journal reporter who's essentially been kidnapped by the Russian authorities and is being held in jail for no actual reason for as, as a bargaining chip. And I thought there were certain areas where maybe Tucker could have pushed back harder, but the reality is that Putin just used the platform as a way of filibustering. I don't think Tucker did anything wrong in doing the interview. In fact, I think again Tucker asked some interesting questions that is fully coincident with a belief that Vladimir Putin is an anti-American dictator who has very evil intentions and proceeded to use the interview as a filibuster technique. And I mean, even Tucker basically said, so upfront, Tucker said in in introducing the interview that the first 35 minutes of the interview is just Vladimir Putin essentially beginning with the creation of the earth explaining his version of the history of Ukraine. And Tucker is like, explain why you invaded Ukraine. And Vladimir Putin is like, it began with the forging of the great rings like that. That's really, that's really what happened. And he goes for like 35 minutes just explaining what he sees as the history of Ukraine, which he says was never really a sovereign country and was really created by Vladimir Lenin, which is not really the case. And all this is revisionist history, but you'd have to be sort of expert on Eastern European politics and the history of Ukraine, the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth, the history of of Russia Eastern Europe in order to fact check him in real time on this sort of stuff. And that's not something I think Tucker is particularly interested in here was Vladmir Putin taking advantage of the situation to talk about how Lenin created Ukraine. What matters is that Lenin, the founder of the Soviet State, established Ukraine that way for decades. The Ukrainian Soviet Republic developed as part of the USSR and for unknown reasons, again, the Bolsheviks were engaged in Ukrainian. It was not merely because the Soviet leadership was composed to a great extent of those originating from Ukraine. Rather, it was explained by the general policy of indigenization pursued by the Soviet Union. Same things were done in other Soviet republics. This involved promoting national languages and national cultures, which is not about in principle Soviet. And it went on like 35 minutes by the way. And Tucker is sitting there like, can I get to like an answer to a question at any point here? But a, a couple things jump out. One is that when you actually listen to the full interview, you'll see that Vladimir Putin has a very self-serving view of Ukrainian history that basically allows him to argue that Ukraine should be fully ingested by Russia. He claims that of course he has clean hands in all this. He's never had nefarious thought, he's never had a nefarious opinion and he in fact is not anti-American. It's just that the Americans have been unkind to him over the course of Russian history after the fall of the Soviet Union. You'll also notice that just in terms of affect Vladimir Putin for all the time, there was a lot of talk about how Vladimir Putin is dying, how Vladimir Putin is sick. He certainly does not look like he's dying or sick in this interview. Vladimir Putin is very much alive. He's very much with it. I mean, just in terms of personal affect. If you are worried about the future of the United States and you see as I do Russia as a nefarious force in the world in terms of foreign policy, which they have been and continue to be, then the prospect of a president who is not with it sitting across the table from V Lair, Putin should not make anyone sanguine at this point. So again, he went on like this for a very, very, very long time. And again, his history basically suggests that the reason that he attacked Ukraine is because there was a promise that was made, for example, that the West would not expand NATO eastward in the aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union. That promise was apparently never made. According to Mikhail Gorbachev who was the head of of the Soviet Union at the time, the promise was supposedly made. So he claims that the US broke its promises there. And then Tucker asked, what is an interesting question? He says, why exactly did the end of the Cold War not fix the relationship? And of course, Putin then blames the United States. Why did the end of the Cold War not fix the relationship? What motivates this from your point of view? You said I was bitter about the answer. No, it's not bitterness, it's just a statement of fact. We're not bride and groom bitterness resentment. It's not about those kind of matters in such circumstances we just realized we weren't welcome there. That's all. Okay, fine, but let's build relations in another manner. Let's work for common ground elsewhere. Why we receive such a negative response. You should ask your leaders, I can only guess why too big a country with its own opinion and so on. And the United States, I've seen how issues are being resolved in nato. So again, his idea here is that it was the United States that really led to the conflict between the US and Russia post-Soviet. Okay, that is not accurate. The reality is that Russia took a very hard anti-US anti-Western stance in, for example, the war in Yugoslavia. They were backing the Serbs. The Serbs were committing what amounts to technically a form of genocide. Yeah, there are all sorts of reasons why the US and Russia didn't end up walking in lockstep as John Connor suggest that he thought that they would in Terminator two for example. There are a lot of reasons for that. It is not merely that Russia is a wonderful player on the world stage. Again, Russia has spent the, the time since the fall of the Soviet Union embracing oligarch, ization destroying its own democratic flowers, shutting down the press, killing political opponents, invading sovereign countries. They invaded Georgia, they invaded Ukraine twice. They're threatening other states that are in their near area. And this, none of this is critique at Tucker, by the way. All this is a critique of Putin and it's, it is a lot of revisionist history. So Putin for example, he says that he didn't actually start the war in 2014 in Ukraine, in Crimea and the Donbas. That of course is untrue. He sent what they called little green men, which were Russian soldiers wearing the uniforms of separatists into these areas to effectively create breakaway arenas in these particular areas. But what's weird is that Russia didn't actually want to simply annex the parts that weren't Crimea. So Russia annexed Crimea after 2014. Russia did not annex the parts of the Don Bassett controlled why? The reason is because the Russian government was trying to use those areas of Ukraine as a base of operations from which to democratically take over the government of Ukraine. And this led to all sorts of bizarre sort of ramifications in which the central government of Ukraine did not want to allow regional elections in the Donbas outta fear that those would then become effectively sort of enemies within people who wanted to hand over the entirety of Ukraine to the Russians. It led to all sorts of serious conflicts. It led to the violation of the Minsk agreements, which were agreements signed after 2014 that were pretty unclear in exactly how they were to be interpreted. Both Russia and Ukraine violated the Minsk agreements. By the way. The bottom line here is that only one country invaded the sovereign territory of another country. Russia invaded the sovereign territory of Ukraine. They tried to march on Kyiv and take the entire country. Here was Vladimir Putin claiming that actually it was Ukraine that started the war despite the fact that realistically speaking, Vladimir Zelensky was a dove. Okay, before the war, Vladimir Zelensky actively informed his entire upper military echelon that he didn't want them openly preparing for war because he was afraid that would scuttle any peace negotiations that he had with Putin. He came to office pledging that he was going to make peace with Vladimir Putin. In fact, there are a lot of people on the ground in Ukraine who are very angry at Zelensky for having improperly prepared Ukraine for the invasion by Russia. Literally days before the invasion. He was basically happy talking the entire possibility of an invasion of Ukraine and Zelensky. In any case here is Putin claiming that everything is everybody else's fault. Of course It was they who started the war in 2014. Our goal is to stop this war and we did not start this war in 2022. This is an attempt to stop it Then why hasn't the war stopped? That would be the big question. So that's the question that Tucker asked. He says, well, why don't you just stop the war? And Putin then lays out a rationale for the complete dissolution of the government of Ukraine. He claims that the government of Ukraine requires deification. Listen to the twisted logic here. Now again, Ukraine does have certain parties in its military, namely the of battalion that have been highly linked to neo-Nazis in the past. For sure that is true. The idea that the government of Ukraine is effectively a giant Nazi party is a bizarre argument from Vladimir Putin. Here we go. Do you think you've stopped it now? I mean, have you achieved your aims? No, we haven't achieved our aims yet because one of them is the ification. These were people who exterminated poles, Jews and Russians. It is necessary to stop this practice and prevent the dissemination of this concept. I say that Ukrainians are part of the one Russian people. They say, no, we are a separate people. Okay, fine. If they consider themselves a separate people, they have the right to do so. But not on the basis of Nazis, the Nazi ideology. Okay, so what he's doing there, the case that he's making is that many people who are considered sort of the heroes of Ukraine because they resisted, for example, the Soviet takeover of Ukraine in the aftermath of World War II as World War II is ending that many of the people who were resistant to the Soviet takeover were people who were in fact pro-Nazi. Okay? This is the difficulty of European history that also happens to be true in a lot of Eastern European countries. That many of the people who who were rebelling against communist rule in the post-war period were people could formerly allied with the Nazis there. There's no doubt about that. The idea that all of Ukraine is taken over by Nazism because of that is totally crazy. That is a wild contention by Vladimir Putin. By the way, when Putin argues that he's attempting deification in Ukraine, which of course is an absurdity, and then he tells his misbegotten history of World War ii. One of the things he actually said in this interview is he blamed Poland for the outbreak of World War ii, which is pretty wild. For a guy who's claiming that he wants to dify the claim that the Nazis were not responsible for World War II is a hell of a claim. Here's what he had to say. In 1939, after Poland cooperated with Hitler, he did collaborate with Hitler. You know Hitler offered Poland peace and a Treaty of Friendship and alliance demanding in return that Poland give back to Germany. The so-called Dan card door, which connected the bulk of Germany with East Russia and Coonsburg after World War I, this territory was transferred to Poland and instead of Danzig, a city of Dsk emerged. Hitler asked them to give it amicably, but they refused. Of course, still they collaborated with Hitler and engaged together in the partitioning of Czechoslovakia. And now let me explain what he's attempting to say here, and it makes no sense. You've making this claim for a lot of years. The reason he's making this claim is because he's a defender of the Soviet Union, okay? The actual history when it comes to the breakout of World War ii, that the Molotov Ribbon Trop Pact, which ensured that Russia would not attack Hitler from the East, divvied up Poland. It carved it directly in half and it gave a large chunk of it to the Nazis and a large chunk of it to the Soviets. In the aftermath of the Nazis sweeping through Poland, they divvied up a bunch of territory. The Soviets and the Nazis, they have course were the real allies. So if you are Russian, you have an interesting claiming that the Molotov Ribbon Trop Act was not in fact an attempt to grab land while allying with Hitler. It was actually an attempt to forestall a Hitlerian invasion of the Soviet Union, an invasion that of course did in fact happen in 1941. So that is a revisionist history. The claim that that Putin makes right there is that Poland was somehow allied with Germany because during the Sud Dayton land agreement, during the Munich agreements of 1938, when Czech Slovakia was basically divvied up because Hitler took it And, then the Western powers basically just shrugged. That's, that's the famous piece in our time. Neville Chamberlain stuff. When that happened, Czechoslovakia got divvied up by a number of parties, including some to Hungary, some to Germany, and Poland at the very last minute, they like grabbed a tiny sliver of Czechoslovakia that had in the aftermath of World War I belonged to them. The borders in Eastern Europe were constantly changing like all the time, okay? So because of that, he claimed they were allies of Hitler, which of course is weird because then Hitler demanded that a port city essentially be turned over to the, to the Germans and Poland refused. And that was the outbreak of World War ii. And the way Putin plays that is that Poland was actually pushing Germany too hard and forced Hitler to invade Poland, which is insane, and that that's why World War II began. Now, the reason he's saying that also is because that sort of is what he is saying about Ukraine. What he's basically saying is that because Ukraine is in, is defending its own borders, and because Russia has been encroaching on those borders since 2014 in Crimea and in the Donbas, and because Ukraine doesn't want to grant enough power to those areas, that is what justifies the the, the Russian invasion of Ukraine. He's simultaneously saying that while saying that he's trying to deify again, none of this makes any sort of sense, but Putin's a clever operator. Okay? So again, none of this is on Tucker. It's all on Putin. Putin is Putin's a clever operator, obviously he's a very smart guy. He's completely vicious. He has no commitment to the truth. He's a KGB operative. I mean, can we stop pretending that Vladimir Putin is some sort of great s savior and Scion of the West? He obviously is not. He's a Russian na. He's an arch Russian nationalist who wishes to expand the borders of what he perceives to be his new empire. He wishes to grab some strategic territory. Crimea is very strategic. There's the Damm basket that he's currently occupying are very strategic. And of course he would love to break apart NATO because that would allow him the possibility of further territorial expansion, which is why if you talk to anyone from any of the Baltic states, they don't believe him. And those are people who do have a border with Vladimir Putin. We talk about how You know Americans, we shouldn't really care all that much about what's going on in Eastern Europe. Yeah, but Eastern Europeans should, I mean Eastern Europeans have every right to be afraid of Vladimir Putin. If you ask a Lithuanian or if you ask an Estonian, or if you ask somebody from Poland, are they worried about Russia on their borders? The answer is if you have any knowledge of history about this region whatsoever. Of course they're worried about Russia on their borders. Russia's a long history of invading these places, obviously. So Tucker asks him about this in clip 10. Tucker says, You know people are arguing that you invaded Ukraine and you have further territorial aims, and Putin just fraternize it. Which again, I don't believe the KGB operative, sorry. Well, the argument, I know You know this, is that well, he invaded Ukraine, he has territorial aims across the continent. And you're saying unequivocally you don't. It is absolutely out of the question. You just don't have to be any kind of analyst. It goes against common sense to get involved in some kind of a global war. And a global war will bring all humanity to the brink of destruction. He's Saying this after invading Ukraine and threatening the use of nuclear weapons. I don't believe you, sir. Okay? And, and then Putin makes what is the case that he's been waiting to make the entire interview, right? He makes the case that Americans should basically not care about any of this. Don't you guys have your own problem? So if I ingest Ukraine, what problem is it of yours? And again, clever tactic by Putin. Because the reality is that yes, Ukraine is very far away. Now, there are serious geopolitical ramifications to Putin simply being able to take over all of Ukraine. First of all, there are serious economic ramifications, not only because of complete Russian control of the Black Sea and shipping routes and all the rest of it, but also because Ukraine is the number three grain producer in all the world. Also, because that would then put Vladimir Putin directly on the borders of Hungary on the borders of Poland. It would also grant him the presumed ability to run directly through Lithuania toward Colen and G as we discussed yesterday. I mean, if, if you think that Putin's ambitions somehow end here, I'm just wondering why did he invade Georgia like the, like this is not the first time he's invaded Ukraine. It's not the first country he's invaded. So You know, granting him the benefit of the doubt that he is just a mild mannered person who is seeking to protect Russian interests without crossing sovereign borders. Ignores You know like his entire regime here, here he was though, trying to make the sort of quasi isolationist case for for America ignoring what's going on? Do the United States need this? What? For thousands of miles away from your national territory, don't you have anything better to do? You have issues on the border, issues with migration, issues with the national debt more than $33 trillion, you have nothing better to do. So you should fight in Ukraine. Wouldn't it be better to negotiate with Russia? Make an agreement. Okay, pause it right there. So here's the question. What agreement is Putin proposing here? What? What agreements is he proposing? So during the interview, he referenced the idea that there was an agreement that was put on the table in like April of 2022 in Istanbul. and that agreement was still being fought over, that were still questions about whether an agreement would be reached. and they were getting somewhat close to an agreement by pretty much all available reports, including one from the Wall Street Journal just this week. There's only one problem in the middle of those negotiations as the Russians pulled away from Kyiv because they were actually having some pretty significant military problems near Kyiv. As they pulled away, they pulled away from a town called Buca. That town was the site of a massacre of 450 people including men, women, and children. And when the west saw that, the west said, okay, I don't think we can quite negotiate the way that we were before because you guys are committing full on war atrocities. That's what scuttled the negotiations or the atrocities in Buca. Now if that table, if that deal were put back on the table, would Vladimir Putin accept that deal today? He's made that completely unclear. The biggest question from the Tucker interview is, what does Putin want? What will he accept in return for an end to the war? And at no point does he really explain that that is the biggest problem. So Tucker does ask him that near the end of the interview, he says, would you be willing to say to NATO like you win, we're done here and here's Putin's answer. Would you be willing to say, congratulations nato, you won, and just keep the situation where it is. Now, You know it is a subject matter for the negotiations. No one is willing to conduct or to put it more accurately, they're willing but do not know how to do it. I know they want it. It is not just I see it, but I know they do want it, but they're struggling to understand how to do it. They have driven the situation to the point where we are at. It is not us who have done that. It is our partners opponents who have done that well now let them think how to reverse the situation. Okay? There's only one problem with that. That is not an answer to the question. So the only question that Tucker You know set out to get an answer too, Putin wouldn't answer, right? The only question that matters, how do we get to an end to this thing Putin wouldn't answer. Instead, he used the interview as an opportunity to talk about how the West is terrible to him and the West is super mean to him. And talk about the glories of the Russian Empire. At some point, he actually suggested that Russia has always been very loyal to people who profess other religions, which comes as a bit of a shock to all the Jews who were forced into the pale of settlement over the course of Russian history. And, but in any case, Putin is a, is a skilled disassembler. He's a skilled liar. It's what he does. He is in fact a dictator who does not have America's best interests at heart. So again, two things can be true at once. One, Tucker did a fine, incredible job in this interview. And there's nothing wrong with Tucker interviewing Putin. Two, you shouldn't believe a word that comes outta Putin's mouth because in fact, he's an anti-American dictator who kills his political opponents and really seeks to set Russia up as a counterbalance to the United, States and world politics already. Folks, the rest of the show continues Right now we'll be getting into whether the senate of the United States will in fact approve some form of aid to Ukraine and to Israel. If you're not a member, become member Use Coach Shapiro. Check out for two months free on all annual plans. Click that link and then a description. And join us One stage, one night. No limits. Don't miss the epic return of the God king Jeremy Boring with Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Candace Owens, Michael Knowles, and Andrew Clayton backstage. Watch it live Tuesday night at 7:00 PM Eastern, 6:00 PM Central exclusively on The Daily Wire plus app and on DailyWire dot com. Introducing two new and improved Jeremy's razors. Fighting the left and building the future means constantly bringing your best. And that's exactly what Jeremy's razors is doing. Choose between the new and improved precision. Five razor for an exceptionally smooth and close shave, or the brand new sprint. Three razor for a quick clean shave. The new razors feature top to bottom redesign. Enjoy an ergonomic handle designed for superior durability. The new coated stainless steel blades are sharper so they last longer. Increased flexibility allows the razor to better contour to your face, to reduce nicks and cuts. Plus, the lubricating strip is now equipped with argon oil and aloe. It's time to toss out that woke razor and get yourself a precision five or sprint three trial kit today. Pledge the fight the left, and build a future with Jeremy's razors. Go to jeremy's razors.com and order yours today.

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ep catastrophic press conference time publish rss feed m joe biden presidency m go to right presidency end yesterday special counsel robert hur person investigate joe biden mishandle classified material issue report essentially suggest joe biden non compost mentis dude function brain say report go to detail joe biden proceed blow like challenger disastrous press conference american history shocking day politic yesterday begin usual joe biden go stump make dumb mistake s yesterday joe biden give speech middle speech start babble nonsensically miss basic term yesterday say push program say m go to president everybody live red state green state red state green state single day joe biden ve couple year point clip play joe biden s screw ve say watch joe biden press conference point like watch wallenda cross tightrope volcano watch hopeful s go to watch wanna watch god forbid fall tightrope yesterday joe biden not fall tightrope jump tightrope directly political volcano begin usual day sort mistake kane jean pire increasingly ask defend fact joe biden yesterday give variety excuse screw bunch different thing course week happen know happen common want wanna sure not forget overall arch kind theme s try leadership global stage americans concern time couple day president get leader wrong reference somebody deceased look state question lay leader community elect official uncommon meeting president confuse name like ve see see s okay s lie time line white house sure age screw thing forget key forget phone not mean not president united states yesterday middle afternoon special council report joe biden mishandle classified document break headline report headline joe biden quote unquote exonerate headline bury lot misuse classified material go to report big headline real reason actively go prosecute joe biden mishandle classified material believe s senile old man let report detail hindenberg presidential press conference owe humanity mean joe biden set literal fire moment buck barely get day inflation keep spiral know buck cell phone company use pure talk unlimited talk text plenty g datum buck month pure talk give quality service current cell phone provider half cost average family save thousand dollar year contract activation fee switch pure talk phone phone number currently use advantage late great deal late iphone android make switch incredibly easy customer service team help join pure talk little minute choose spend hard earn money wireless company share value support military veteran create american job refuse advertise know fake news network stop spend ridiculous money phone plan pure talk dot com slash shapiro right listener additional month coverage s pure talk dot com slash shapiro check right ve pure talk year great coverage excellent price pure talk dot com slash shapiro special counsel report say go to divide part detail cause pretty important yes joe biden classify document clearly classified material possession say department justice go to prosecute quote conclude criminal charge warrant matter reach conclusion department justice policy foreclose criminal charge sit president investigation uncover evidence president biden willfully retain disclose classified material vice presidency private citizen material include mark classify document military foreign policy afghanistan notebook contain mr biden handwritten entry issue national security foreign policy implicate sensitive intelligence source method fbi agent recover material garage office basement den mr bidens wilmington delaware home reason summarize conclude evidence establish mr biden guilt reasonable doubt exactly biden possession apparently document fall classification marking secret sensitive compartmented information level find box bidens delaware garage contain material great personal significance appear personally access material proof stand mr biden take regard important push barack obama basically pull scale afghanistan course joe biden president president disastrous fashion american history report continue say special counsel say joe biden certainly know illegal know illegal classified material report read lot like hillary clinton report eventually exonerate james comey basically say guilty okay report s guilty mishandle classified material joe biden know illegal accord special counsel robert hur evidence suggest mr biden know classify handwritten note home leave office biden decade experience classified information deeply familiar measure take safeguard classified information need measure prevent harm national security fact twice joe biden visit national archive skiff review classified note card write book keep notebook contain classified information unlocked drawer home strong motivation ignore rule properly handle classified information notebook consult notebook liberally hour discussion ghostwriter view highly private value possession unwilling fact read aloud notebook damning read aloud notebook mr biden list point iraq situation july meeting biden explain ghost writer person name mark wanzer similar argument year early debate troop surge afghanistan biden tell wanzer send obama page handwritten memo argue deployment additional troop afghanistan midsentence interview biden say matter fact tone quote find classify stuff downstairs rule priming folk not tape joe biden tape admit scale tape word quote find classify stuff downstairs okay admit classify stuff downstair different donald trump brag reporter classify set document iran example thing say find classify stuff downstairs open shut case violation criminal law come classified information mishandle thereof political boss country treatment receive wife doctor work veterans affair walk affair building residency violation hipaa material prosecute joe biden brag ghost writer classify document high level cabinet downstairs tape not prosecute special counsel find evidence vice presidency biden willfully retain mark classified document afghanistan unmarke classify handwritten note notebook store unsecured place house clearly biden material get mixed know kind funny write folder afghanistan spell afghanistan h remember captain brilliance not spell word afghanistan know afghanistan policy accord special counsel mr biden say handwritten label folder look like handwriting distinctive misspelling afghanistan confirm biden repeatedly similar misspelling handwritten note vice president note take senator date mean let let real joe biden intellectual great shake fact s misspell word afghanistan literally year kind amazing okay special counsel find series excuse joe biden prosecute number special counsel say expect biden defense trial think notebook personal property allow home contain classified information interview mr biden emphatic declare notebook quote property president exact thing sound lot like president trump frankly president trump claim document possession s actually real excuse go disseminate document russians s like document m keep mean s exactly biden say biden say document m keep excuse prosecute biden look like defense donald trump go use classified document mishandle kay furthermore place biden store stuff exactly secure location quote expect juror strike place afghanistan document ultimately find biden delaware home badly damage box garage near collapse dog crate dog bed zappos box bucket break lamp wrap duct tape pot soil synthetic firewood clearly handle classify material way handle special counsel way try distinguish biden trump say quote notably give multiple chance return classified document avoid prosecution mr trump allegedly opposite accord indictment refuse return document month obstruct justice enlist destroy evidence lie contrast biden turn classify document national archive et cetera dispositive difference trump biden suggest joe biden perfectly willing mishandle classify document year end get catch turn document not relieve responsibility mishandle classify document home classify document year mishandle leave come turn document turn document not mean not criminal act way come hillary clinton actually like bleach bite hard drive real reason prosecute joe biden real reason prosecute joe biden special counsel robert hear make clear report s devastating biden make clear report joe biden long mentally fit defense box let president united states m read direct quote special counsel report make absolutely clear joe biden long year moment like talk life insurance dark right got to think death here thing way great list important thing family start shop right policy genius find right policy protect family today peace mind come know god forbid happen family cover expense get foot policy geniuss technology make compare life insurance quote americas insurer easy click life insurance policy work offer protection family need follow leave job need backup plan policy genius find life insurance policy start buck year million dollar coverage option offer day approval avoid unnecessary medical exam policy genius license agent help find good fit need easy s excuse policygenius work insurance company mean incentivize recommend insurer actually trust guidance save time money provide family financial safety net policygenius head policygeniuscomshapiro click link description free life insurance quote save s policygeniuscomshapiro here report say quote mr bidens memory significantly limit record interview ghost writer interview office remember year report say joe biden memory go seven year ago get bad quote consider trial mr biden likely present jury interview sympathetic wellmeane elderly man poor memory word defense go nice old gent not remember thing anymore great description want oval office base direct interaction observation s juror want identify reasonable doubt difficult convince jury convict president eighty felony require mental state willfulness say go to geriatric dodd go to let quote special counsel report quote mr bidens memory appear significant limitation time speak ghost writer wanzer evidence record conversation today evidence record interview office mr biden record conversation monitor painfully slow mr biden struggle remember event strain time read relay notebook entrie quote interview office mr biden memory bad remember vice president mind boggle stuff folk joe biden sit special counsel investigate classify document s president united states time remember vice president forget day interview term end stop vice president forget second day interview term begin vice president crazy president united states remember vice president united states like term year pretty important like remember year start company dailywire pretty important year remember pretty important s lot go year s vice president united states vice president not remember year vice president get bad quote remember year son bo die mindboggle absolutely mind boggle mean joe biden pull story bos death time campaign trail ask difficult question time start sort sad thing talk deceased son obnoxious terrible bad possible circumstance d talk family dead soldier suddenly talk bo imply bo die iraq service learn special counsel not quote remember year son bo die memory appear hazy describe afghanistan debate important thing mistakenly say real difference opinion general carl eikenberry fact eikenberry ally mr biden cite approvingly thanksgive memo president obama s quote give mr biden tendency loose talk wanzer mr biden limited precision recall interview office discuss reasonable juror hesitate place evidentiary weight single word utterance want year ago absence direct evidence word reason prosecute say ghost writer bunch classified information downstairs s old s senile reiterate biden likely present jury sympathetic wellmeane elderly man poor memory accountable action president united states base direct observation biden juror want search reasonable doubt quote believe evidence support reasonable doubt classified afghanistan document support reasonable doubt notebook include mr biden cooperation investigation diminish faculty advance age sympathetic demeanor nice old senile man verdict s s go jail report devastating simple indictment ve simple indictment biden probably ve get ve kill trumps classified document indictment stain special prosecutor say prosecute s old senile devastating course biden team pick right away send letter lawyer robert quote believe report treatment president biden memory accurate appropriate report use highly prejudicial language describe commonplace occurrence witness lack recall year old event comment place department justice report particularly paragraph announce criminal charge warrant evidence establish mr biden guilt excuse excuse use joe biden not recall son die vice president quote interview begin day october attack israel s go actual line s go actual line ask good defense s major international crisis president get senile apparently suppose defense senility s hire job suppose handle phone hillary clinton call level mental acuity lose faculty minute international emergency break good good president biden write statement say quote career public service ve work protect america security question seriously question okay not comment original statement lack mental faculty point jake tapper cnn correctly skeptical biden original explanation member medium pretty critical defense everybody tell medium shut joe biden senile s senile s senile year point know time watch talk time watch walk long control giant secret ve gaslit year end moment business owner hire manager know rough right find people good fill position need fill fortunately not need luck find talent team need ziprecruiter right try ziprecruiter free ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire ziprecruiter user friendly technology guide find talent post job ziprecruiter intuitive match technology present list qualified candidate ve review list qualified candidate swiftly invite choice apply streamlined process encourage apply soon allow fill role fast humanly possible not curious ziprecruiter help right try ziprecruiter free ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire outta employer post ziprecruiter quality candidate day exclusive web address try ziprecruiter free s ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire ziprecruiter smart way hire ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire s ziprecruiter dot com slash dailywire check right medium member medium start special counsel wrong jake tapper yesterday let talk little bit particularly bad week report comment president biden faculty memory come twice week act speak european leader dead year confuse francois miral die emmanuel macron alive time refer angela merkel recently chancellor germany refer helmut cole think die memory issue wanna know voter michigan wisconsin think know difference not know know somebody go to cast vote ask ask sorry okay go to cast vote president base name emmanuel macron fran francois mi probably not know faculty memory somebody perceive competent okay tapper speak virtually americans joe biden random failure day say mix dead french president live french president mix germany france problem course know look joe biden long control faculty emergency time fairly late night joe biden night know usually call little like pm man s currently old age home schedule political hospice president sad honest god sad s president elect president sad watch president united states control call presser emergency presser s goal call emergency press conference blow widespread assumption joe biden control right idea go normal political cycle happen president come fully control d ready fully control demonstrate special counsel wrong have day not lot sleep night special counsel hate clearly person command person peak power joe biden come night go to press conference disastrous press conference presidential history bar bar ve see lot folk ve follow stuff year ve see lot tape easily bad press conference time joe biden s control faculty proceed commit bie lead special counsel s control faculty thing start joe biden s kinda like windup toy point minute like okay look awake ve shoot wear start fail battery start sputter light eye start dim happen real time important watch thing joe biden stagger s minute late press conference guess minute late press conference proceed speak special counsel report know special counsel release find today look handling classify document pleased reach firm conclusion charge bring case exhaustive investigation go year new united states senator special counsel acknowledge cooperate completely throw roadblock seek delay fact determined special counsel need go forward hour person hour person interview day october eighth ninth year israel attack hamas seventh occupied middle handle international crisis especially pleased special counsel clear stark distinction difference case mr trumps case special counsel write quote material distinction mr trumps case mr biden clear continue quote notably give multiple chance return classified document avoid prosecution mr trump allegedly opposite accord indictment refuse return document month obstruct justice enlist destroy evidence lie contrast go mr biden turn classify document national archive department justice consent search multiple location include home sit voluntary interview way cooperate investigation okay pause second obviously s read teleprompter right s pause think s s read quote teleprompter slurring get bad m hesitant analyze affect joe biden speak s s entire press conference conference design moment need talk terrible absolutely terrible course speak asparagus know s okay not need asparagus vegetable deficiency take balance nature fruit veggie balance nature fruit veggie convenient way ensure daily intake fruit veggie balance nature use advance call vacuum process encapsulate fruit vegetable food supplement sacrifice natural antioxidant capsule completely void additive filler extract synthetic pesticide add sugar thing imbalance nature fruit veggie capsule know fruit veggie need nutrient function good single day balance nature help like right m road normally sick ve take balance nature feel pretty good balance nature dot com use promo code shapiro set fruit veggie additional buck additional set buy s balance nature dot com promo code shapiro check right like have hard time get daily quotient fruit veggie need check balance nature right s balance nature dot com promo code shapiro entire press conference joe biden handle long minute currently minute press conference s start fade ve see headline report release willful retention document assertion mislead plain wrong page chance know long thick document page report special counsel find exact opposite here write fact shortage evidence willfully retain classified material relate afghanistan page special counsel write document decision decline criminal charge straightforward evidence suggest mr biden willfully retain document evidence say willfully retain document addition know s attention pay language report recollection event s reference not remember son die hell dare raise okay pause second okay start rail joe biden truly rail far s read report defense claim not know son die instead try substitute outrage claim joe biden find jury affable elderly gentleman control faculty joe biden go prove control faculty instead spend rest press conference demonstrating fact affable s fact likable thing start totally sideways frankly ask question think not damn business wait let tell comment wear day die single day rosary get lady oh memorial day hold service remember attend okay pause right friend literally middle big dramatic moment remember get rosary bo mean minute press conference start pm eastern time president united states try demonstrate s control faculty get heighten emotional moment try know detail bo step directly landmine mention thing ask rosary go use prop pull remember get middle presser s beginning folk get bad family people love not need not need remind pass away pass away simple truth sit honor review day event getting bad go year time manage international crisis task decision forward charge case s decision s counsel decision s job decide forward extraneous commentary not know talk place report okay stop s true course place report report joe biden mishandle classify document clearly question prosecute mishandle classified document answer cause go to prosecute c old man say place analyze course s prosecutorial discretion happen literally day prosecutor country decide believe ll able succeed case factor go to able succeed state defendant case joe biden try walk right past question go work minute time check pressor say thing not answer question probably minute s screw basic matter fact s mischaracterize report s fade incredibly badly matter close m go to continue ve focus job president united states america thank ill question president biden special counsel say report reason charge description wellmeane elderly man poor memory m wellmeane m elderly man know hell m ve president country foot not need recommendation totally bad memory continue president memory bad let speak s s know memory get bad mr president memory get memory fine memory look ve ve president think pass thing get pass d happen know guess forget go pause second okay s clear memory s simply say lot stuff president united try fail joke s call peter ducey memory bad call ah ha ha not go to work looks physically assault reporter start pester question ll rest presser not long president united states face incoming question happen time president lifetime press scrum press ask question talk not look like look promise look like small child loud noise room look looks physically assault question bad get significantly bad think bad far minute wait second disastrous press conference presidential history second valentine day come fast jeremys perfect gift surprise well half shop jeremys bundle love delicious chocolate smooth razor iconic leftist tear tumblr 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pillow listener head helix sleepcomben use code helix partner good offer go to long helix well sleep start right okay joe bidens press conference continue remember currently minute press conference fail come son rosary come s goal ask suggest memory fact fade way shape form simultaneously fade energy look like s assault question solicit get bad folk minute not long bad period time concern age go assuage fear report go fuel concern age mr president criminal liability today responsibility careless classify material responsibility having see exactly staff go point thing appear garage thing come outta home thing move move staff staff mr president mr president president president mr p mr president not folk s like blink s people assaulted month ask age respond word watch watch american people watch express concern age judgment judgment public judgment press express concern mental acuity old mr president december tell believe democrat defeat donald trump answer question m qualified person country president united states finish job start mr pause second couple thing say s judgment judgment press judgment voter poll take year suggest american people deep apparently wellgrounde concern joe bidens mental state say s person qualified president united states audacious claim people believe democrats believe s united states s well qualified president united states joe biden believe dude problem hand president refuse name oral matter thank share classified information share ghostwriter ghostwriter s lie s lie s lie true report say share classified information ghostwriter say straight say share classified information ghostwriter s tell truth lie okay s lie s forget thing press conference suppose totally truth teller continue guarantee special counsel say okay mr president lemme answer question fact matter not want repeat not want not read write long memorandum president obama afghanistan multiple page refer say classify say private contact president vice president go s refer classify information document class thank call look incident differently think special prosecutor appoint place case ve oversee transfer material office office not responsibility staff suppose reference report staff way example not know half box get garage find staff gather take em garage home stuff home filing cabinet locked able lock house not like maralago public place high classify not red stuff know mean corner wish pay attention document move think move archive think move s think question special counsel appoint case case rival president president president think special counsel appoint reason think special counsel appoint want position look trump not go to look like look vice president fact firm conclusion break law period thank okay say thank start head point staff like wow bad good maybe breathe sigh relief come come provide hostage negotiation order israel hostage negotiation come staff like scream bloody murder point m know conduct response gaza gaza strip think know man s initially president mexico cc want open gate allow humanitarian material okay pause second come suggest apparently israel response gaza white house clean aisle try say hamas response gaza demand release hostage mean clearly say terrible morally israel response citizen murder take captive hold captive fact gross earn vote dearborn michigan make big boo boo call abta elsi president egypt president mexico press conference design s mentally fit able memory work fine press conference design s say president egypt president mexico mexico act explain open border keep call lsi ask shut border cece like border shut meaning like gaza border biden like tell shot guess not close tweet hilariously denial not river mexico like goodness goodness remember minute press conference minute hour hour day october minute press conference late night night night pm president united states call president egypt president mexico babble nonsensically israeli response gaza mean see political self emulation like dowse political gasoline attempt set match light goodness s talk convince open gate talk bibe open gate israeli ve push hard hard humanitarian assistance gaza lot innocent people starve lot innocent people trouble dying get to stop number number position m guy case increase material go include fuel wind twice wind ve phone qataris ve phone egyptians ve phone saudi aid possibly gossip innocent people innocent woman child bad badly need help s push m push hard deal hostage ceasefire know ve work tirelessly deal reveal lead sustained pause fighting action take place gaza strip think delay initial delay oh goodness s ahead think able extend increase prospect fighting gaza change s negotiation recall beginning right right hamas attack contact saudi work deal recognize israel right exist let middle east recognize fully return certain thing united states commit commitment propose relate item m go to detail deal babble nonsensically protection arch enemy northwest northeast northwest northeast second provide ammunition material defend coincidentally s timeframe break proof m unreasonable suspect hamas understand place want break happen start walk look s like kind stagger s believe person mentally fit president democrat question donald trump scary thing come pike donald trump president united states united states basically election philip philip roth plot america orange hitler go guy charge choose place doddering senile old man seriously february folk february election november not hard imagine democrats em ticket likely defeat donald trump medium take angle biden presser angle number fine rachel maddow try night msnbc claim hubbub joe biden ride bike eat ice cream occasionally fact age rebut not not tack say far leave tack center s man year old ride bike lec age useful political attack reason let okay chris hayes live world reality rachel maddow local ride bike ride bike good luck argument let clear live crazy political time senile old man win reelection reason m old remember senate race pennsylvania person stroke speak hear win senate race simply people like donald trump pennsylvania possible biden win sure risk democrats go to wanna s question problem person back joe biden kamala harris popular politician american history s horrible know s actually likely lose donald trump joe biden ll hide basement maybe away eventually hell pass eventually kamala harris president rest s hope kamala harris ticket toast not lot option d find way getting rid kamala harris put gavin newsom california order robust candidate presidency s loose talk michelle obama s pretty clear s interested run point solution democrats problem s black woman mean supplant kamala harris boo inside democratic party apparently not want democrats real pickle hand problem hand donald trump know yesterday donald trump slam joe biden mental acuity know iraq happen balance iran blow balance iran essentially iraq iraq not like say s way shame world tremendous danger danger possibly world war iii man s absolutely bad president history country not sentence s go to able negotiate putin kim jongun north korea go to able negotiate anybody know drop bomb place meaningless bomb kill lot people okay here thing see member medium try compare donald trumps mental acuity joe biden lot question donald trump term example impulse control try pretend man league term closeness senility obviously untrue obviously untrue trump pretty awesome day yesterday watch joe biden completely blow great political self see lifetime supreme court basically strike idiotic argument not allow colorado ballot supreme court hearing yesterday hearing virtually justice slap lawyer suggest donald trump simply kick ballot colorado quote unquote insurrection despite fact insurrection actual legal definition sufficient support federal level chief justice john roberts course right winger talk jason murray colorado voter attorney defend colorado action kicking trump ballot expect know goodly number state democratic candidate ballot republican candidate ballot ll come handful state go decide presidential election s pretty daunting consequence certainly honor fact potential frivolous application constitutional provision not reason hold mean think frivolous probably people bring think frivolous insurrection broad broad term s debate suppose decision eventually decide insurrection president oppose somebody wait near time count ballot sort state valid state not okay s john roberts take task jason murray colorado voter attorney pretty justice yesterday justice kavanaugh justice gorsuch justice gorsuch go antitrump lawyer ultimately kind procedure place adjudicate disqualification certainly congress impeach sit president s remedy m aware exist removal negate authority sit president theory section speak disqualification hold office disqualify hold office moment happen correct operate s legislation necessary think theory case procedure happen automatically certainly need procedure order remedy enforce disqualification s separate question s de fact doctrine not work okay aside s disqualify moment selfexecute think person receive direction per president president view free act wish regard individual not think think defacto officer doctrine come play defacto not work mr murray cause defacto officer ratify conduct s insulate judicial review aside m go to aside okay getting bat trump go to ballot s way democrat choice leave joe biden chance try administrate throw entire race complete utter chaos s guy election s effectively right democrat actively make case joe biden not trump trump backer make case independent democrats s joe biden woo election go okay tucker carlson long await interview vladimir putin yesterday think tucker fine mean think ask pointed question particularly near end evan sic think useful question wall street journal reporter s essentially kidnap russian authority hold jail actual reason bargaining chip think certain area maybe tucker push hard reality putin platform way filibuster not think tucker wrong interview fact think tucker ask interesting question fully coincident belief vladimir putin antiamerican dictator evil intention proceed use interview filibuster technique mean tucker basically say upfront tucker say introduce interview minute interview vladimir putin essentially begin creation earth explain version history ukraine tucker like explain invade ukraine vladimir putin like begin forging great ring like s s happen go like minute explain see history ukraine say sovereign country create vladimir lenin case revisionist history d sort expert eastern european politic history ukraine polish lithuanian commonwealth history russia eastern europe order fact check real time sort stuff s think tucker particularly interested vladmir putin take advantage situation talk lenin create ukraine matter lenin founder soviet state establish ukraine way decade ukrainian soviet republic develop ussr unknown reason bolsheviks engage ukrainian merely soviet leadership compose great extent originate ukraine explain general policy indigenization pursue soviet union thing soviet republic involved promote national language national culture principle soviet go like minute way tucker sit like like answer question point couple thing jump actually listen interview ll vladimir putin selfserving view ukrainian history basically allow argue ukraine fully ingest russia claim course clean hand s nefarious thought s nefarious opinion fact antiamerican americans unkind course russian history fall soviet union ll notice term affect vladimir putin time lot talk vladimir putin die vladimir putin sick certainly look like s die sick interview vladimir putin alive s mean term personal affect worried future united states russia nefarious force world term foreign policy continue prospect president sit table v lair putin sanguine point go like long time history basically suggest reason attack ukraine promise example west expand nato eastward aftermath fall soviet union promise apparently accord mikhail gorbachev head soviet union time promise supposedly claim break promise tucker ask interesting question say exactly end cold war fix relationship course putin blame united states end cold war fix relationship motivate point view say bitter answer bitterness statement fact bride groom bitterness resentment kind matter circumstance realize not welcome s okay fine let build relation manner let work common ground receive negative response ask leader guess big country opinion united states ve see issue resolve nato idea united states lead conflict russia postsoviet okay accurate reality russia take hard antius antiwestern stance example war yugoslavia back serb serb commit amount technically form genocide yeah sort reason russia not end walk lockstep john connor suggest think terminator example lot reason merely russia wonderful player world stage russia spend time fall soviet union embrace oligarch ization destroy democratic flower shut press kill political opponent invade sovereign country invade georgia invade ukraine twice threaten state near area critique tucker way critique putin lot revisionist history putin example say not actually start war ukraine crimea donbas course untrue send call little green man russian soldier wear uniform separatist area effectively create breakaway arena particular area s weird russia not actually want simply annex part not crimea russia annex crimea russia annex part don bassett control reason russian government try use area ukraine base operation democratically government ukraine lead sort bizarre sort ramification central government ukraine want allow regional election donbas outta fear effectively sort enemy people want hand entirety ukraine russians lead sort conflict lead violation minsk agreement agreement sign pretty unclear exactly interpret russia ukraine violate minsk agreement way line country invade sovereign territory country russia invade sovereign territory ukraine try march kyiv entire country vladimir putin claim actually ukraine start war despite fact realistically speak vladimir zelensky dove okay war vladimir zelensky actively inform entire upper military echelon not want openly prepare war afraid scuttle peace negotiation putin come office pledge go peace vladimir putin fact lot people ground ukraine angry zelensky have improperly prepare ukraine invasion russia literally day invasion basically happy talk entire possibility invasion ukraine zelensky case putin claim everybody else fault course start war goal stop war start war attempt stop not war stop big question s question tucker ask say not stop war putin lay rationale complete dissolution government ukraine claim government ukraine require deification listen twisted logic ukraine certain party military battalion highly link neonazi past sure true idea government ukraine effectively giant nazi party bizarre argument vladimir putin think ve stop mean achieve aim not achieve aim ification people exterminate pole jews russians necessary stop practice prevent dissemination concept ukrainian russian people separate people okay fine consider separate people right basis nazi nazi ideology okay s case s make people consider sort hero ukraine resist example soviet takeover ukraine aftermath world war ii world war ii end people resistant soviet takeover people fact pronazi okay difficulty european history happen true lot eastern european country people rebel communist rule postwar period people ally nazi s doubt idea ukraine take nazism totally crazy wild contention vladimir putin way putin argue s attempt deification ukraine course absurdity tell misbegotten history world war ii thing actually say interview blame poland outbreak world war ii pretty wild guy s claim want dify claim nazi responsible world war ii hell claim here poland cooperate hitler collaborate hitler know hitler offer poland peace treaty friendship alliance demand return poland germany socalled dan card door connect bulk germany east russia coonsburg world war territory transfer poland instead danzig city dsk emerge hitler ask amicably refuse course collaborate hitler engage partitioning czechoslovakia let explain s attempt make sense ve make claim lot year reason s make claim s defender soviet union okay actual history come breakout world war ii molotov ribbon trop pact ensure russia attack hitler east divvy poland carve directly half give large chunk nazi large chunk soviet aftermath nazi sweep poland divvy bunch territory soviet nazi course real ally russian interesting claiming molotov ribbon trop act fact attempt grab land ally hitler actually attempt forestall hitlerian invasion soviet union invasion course fact happen revisionist history claim putin make right poland ally germany sud dayton land agreement munich agreement czech slovakia basically divvy hitler take western power basically shrug s s famous piece time neville chamberlain stuff happen czechoslovakia get divvy number party include hungary germany poland minute like grab tiny sliver czechoslovakia aftermath world war belong border eastern europe constantly change like time okay claim ally hitler course weird hitler demand port city essentially turn germans poland refuse outbreak world war ii way putin play poland actually push germany hard force hitler invade poland insane s world war ii begin reason s say sort say ukraine s basically say ukraine defend border russia encroach border crimea donbas ukraine not want grant power area justify russian invasion ukraine s simultaneously say say s try deify make sort sense putin clever operator okay tucker putin putin putin clever operator obviously s smart guy s completely vicious commitment truth s kgb operative mean stop pretend vladimir putin sort great s savior scion west obviously s russian na s arch russian nationalist wish expand border perceive new empire wish grab strategic territory crimea strategic s damm basket s currently occupy strategic course love break apart nato allow possibility territorial expansion talk baltic state not believe people border vladimir putin talk know americans not care s go eastern europe yeah eastern europeans mean eastern europeans right afraid vladimir putin ask lithuanian ask estonian ask somebody poland worried russia border answer knowledge history region whatsoever course worried russia border russia long history invade place obviously tucker ask clip tucker say know people argue invade ukraine territorial aim putin fraternize not believe kgb operative sorry argument know know invade ukraine territorial aim continent say unequivocally not absolutely question not kind analyst go common sense involve kind global war global war bring humanity brink destruction s say invade ukraine threaten use nuclear weapon not believe sir okay putin make case s wait entire interview right make case americans basically care not guy problem ingest ukraine problem clever tactic putin reality yes ukraine far away geopolitical ramification putin simply able ukraine economic ramification complete russian control black sea shipping route rest ukraine number grain producer world vladimir putin directly border hungary border poland grant presume ability run directly lithuania colen g discuss yesterday mean think putin ambition end m wonder invade georgia like like time s invade ukraine country s invade know grant benefit doubt mild mannered person seek protect russian interest cross sovereign border ignore know like entire regime try sort quasi isolationist case america ignore s go united states need thousand mile away national territory not well issue border issue migration issue national debt trillion well fight ukraine not well negotiate russia agreement okay pause right here question agreement putin propose agreement propose interview reference idea agreement table like april istanbul agreement fight question agreement reach get somewhat close agreement pretty available report include wall street journal week s problem middle negotiation russians pull away kyiv actually have pretty significant military problem near kyiv pull away pull away town call buca town site massacre people include man woman child west see west say okay not think negotiate way guy commit war atrocity s scuttle negotiation atrocity buca table deal table vladimir putin accept deal today s completely unclear big question tucker interview putin want accept return end war point explain big problem tucker ask near end interview say willing nato like win here putin answer willing congratulation nato win situation know subject matter negotiation willing conduct accurately willing know know want know want struggle understand drive situation point partner opponent let think reverse situation okay s problem answer question question tucker know set answer putin not answer right question matter end thing putin not answer instead interview opportunity talk west terrible west super mean talk glory russian empire point actually suggest russia loyal people profess religion come bit shock jews force pale settlement course russian history case putin skilled disassembler s skilled liar fact dictator america good interest heart thing true tucker fine incredible job interview s wrong tucker interview putin not believe word come outta putin mouth fact s antiamerican dictator kill political opponent seek set russia counterbalance united states world politic folk rest continue right get senate united states fact approve form aid ukraine israel member member use coach shapiro check month free annual plan click link description join stage night limit not miss epic return god king jeremy bore ben shapiro matt walsh candace owens michael knowles andrew clayton backstage watch live tuesday night pm eastern pm central exclusively daily wire plus app dailywire dot com introduce new improve jeremys razor fight left build future mean constantly bring good s exactly jeremys razor choose new improved precision razor exceptionally smooth close shave brand new sprint razor quick clean shave new razor feature redesign enjoy ergonomic handle design superior durability new coat stainless steel blade sharp long increase flexibility allow razor well contour face reduce nick cut plus lubricate strip equip argon oil aloe time toss wake razor precision sprint trial kit today pledge fight left build future jeremys razor jeremys razorscom order today

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Aug 5, 2024 Former president Donald Trump speaks at the annual National Association of Black Journalists convention in Chicago. Read the transcript here. Speaker 1 (00:07): Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the 49th Annual National Association of Black Journalists Convention and Career Fair. We are about to begin a conversation with former President Donald Trump. We ask that the professionalism that we all bring to our newsrooms and workplaces every day is the same professionalism that is maintained in this arena. Please welcome to the stage ABC News Senior Congressional Correspondent, Rachel Scott, Semafor political reporter, Kadia Goba, and anchor of The Faulkner Focus and co-host of Outnumbered on Fox News. Harris Faulkner. Rachel Scott (01:10): NABJ. Mic’s on. There we go. Test, test, test. Good afternoon, NABJ, and welcome to a conversation with former President Donald Trump. This discussion continues a decades-long tradition during election years of inviting journalists to discuss the policies and their impact with the candidates who are running for president and the impact of those policies, especially in Black communities. Former Presidents, George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton have attended the NABJ convention either as presidents or as presidential candidates in past years. NABJ is currently in conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris’ team to schedule a Q&A either in person or virtually in September. (01:55)As journalists, we use opportunities like these both to inform our reporting but also to help voters understand the choices that they face in a consequential and historic election year. NABJ has partnered with PolitiFact to fact check this conversation in real time. You can access that feed on social media using the hashtag NABJ Fact Check. Again, the hashtag is NABJ Fact Check. We have a lot to get to and we do not want to waste any time. So let’s bring out the former President of the United States, the Republican nominee for president, former President Donald Trump. Donald Trump (02:32): Hello. Rachel Scott (02:47): Hi, Mr. Trump, Rachel Scott, ABC. Thank you. Donald Trump (02:49): How are you? How are you? Rachel Scott (02:55): Mr. President, we so appreciate you giving us an hour of your time. I want to start by addressing the elephant in the room, sir. A lot of people did not think it was appropriate for you to be here today. You have pushed false claims about some of your rivals, from Nikki Haley to former President Barack Obama saying that they were not born in the United States, which is not true. You have told four Congresswoman women of color who were American citizens to go back to where they came from. You have used words like animal and rabid to describe Black district attorneys. You’ve attacked Black journalists calling them a loser, saying the questions that they ask are, quote, “stupid and racist”. You’ve had dinner with a white supremacist at your Mar-a-Lago resort. So my question, sir, now that you are asking Black supporters to vote for you, why should Black voters trust you after you have used language like that? Donald Trump (03:49): Well, first of all, I don’t think I’ve ever been asked a question in such a horrible manner, first question. You don’t even say, “Hello. How are you?” Are you with ABC? Because I think they’re a fake news network, a terrible network, and I think it’s disgraceful that I came here in good spirit. I love the Black population of this country. I’ve done so much for the Black population of this country, including employment, including opportunity zones with Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, which is one of the greatest programs ever for Black workers and Black entrepreneurs. I’ve done so much and I say this, historically, Black colleges and universities were out of money. They were stone cold broke and I saved them, and I gave them long-term financing and nobody else was doing it. I think it’s a very rude introduction. I don’t know exactly why you would do something like that. (04:54)And let me go a step further. I was invited here and I was told my opponent, whether it was Biden or Kamala, I was told my opponent was going to be here. It turned out my opponent isn’t here. You invited me under false pretense. And then you said you can’t do it with Zoom. Well, where’s Zoom? She’s going to do it with Zoom and she’s not coming, and then you were half an hour late. Just so we understand, I have too much respect for you to be late. They couldn’t get their equipment working or something. Rachel Scott (05:23): Mr. President- Donald Trump (05:25): I think it’s a very nasty question. Rachel Scott (05:26): … I would love if you can answer the question on your rhetoric and why- Donald Trump (05:27): I have answered the question. Rachel Scott (05:28): … you believe that Black voters can trust you with another four years. Donald Trump (05:29): I have been the best president for the Black population since Abraham Lincoln. That’s my answer. Rachel Scott (05:37): Better than President Johnson who signed the Voting Rights Act? Donald Trump (05:39): And for you to start off a question and answer period, especially when you’re 35 minutes late because you couldn’t get your equipment to work, in such a hostile manner, I think it’s a disgrace. I really do think it’s a disgrace. Rachel Scott (05:49): Let me just ask a follow-up, sir, and then we’ll move on to other questions here. Some of your own supporters, including Republicans on Capitol Hill, have labeled Vice President Kamala Harris, who is the first Black and Asian American woman to serve as vice president and be on a major party ticket, as a DEI hire. Is that acceptable language to you and will you tell those Republicans and those supporters to stop it? Donald Trump (06:12): How do you define DEI? Go ahead. How do you define it? Rachel Scott (06:16): Diversity, equity, inclusion? Donald Trump (06:17): Okay. Yeah, go ahead. Is that what your definition- Rachel Scott (06:20): That is literally the words. Donald Trump (06:22): Give me a definition then. Rachel Scott (06:23): D-E-I. Donald Trump (06:23): Would you give me a definition of that? Give me a definition of that. Rachel Scott (06:25): Sir, I’m asking you a question, a very direct question. Donald Trump (06:26): No, you have to define it. Define it for me if you would. Rachel Scott (06:29): I just defined it. Sir, do you believe that Vice President Kamala Harris is only on the ticket because she is a Black woman? Donald Trump (06:34): Well, I can say no, I think it’s maybe a little bit different. So I’ve known her a long time indirectly, not directly very much, and she was always of Indian heritage and she was only promoting Indian heritage. I didn’t know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black and now she wants to be known as Black. So I don’t know. Is she Indian or is she Black? Rachel Scott (06:59): She has always identified as a Black woman. Donald Trump (07:00): But you know what? Rachel Scott (07:01): She went to a historically Black college. Donald Trump (07:02): I respect either one, but she obviously doesn’t because she was Indian all the way and then all of a sudden she made a turn and she became a Black person- Rachel Scott (07:11): Just to be clear, sir, do you believe that she’s- Donald Trump (07:13): … and I think somebody should look into that too when you ask, continue in a very hostile, nasty tone. Rachel Scott (07:18): It’s a direct question, sir. Do you believe that Vice President Kamala Harris is a DEI hire as some Republicans have said? Donald Trump (07:24): I really don’t know. I mean I really don’t know. It could be. Could be. There are some and there are plenty … I know this lady right over there, Harris, is a fantastic person who just interviewed me at length and we had a great interview, I think, and I heard you got very good ratings on that interview. Harris Faulkner (07:37): Well, you told me it was the longest one of your life, so we had a good discussion. Look, I want to talk about why you’re here today. I mean it is not lost on us how divided we are as a country. And, as you were coming today, we really got to see that we are divided along the lines of race, along the lines of gender, and there is this question of in this moment where we are, why come here? What is your message today? Donald Trump (08:06): My message is to stop people from invading our country that are taking frankly … a lot of problems with it but one of the big problems and a lot of the journalists in this room I know and I have great respect for, a lot of the journalists in this room are Black. I will tell you that coming from the border are millions and millions of people that happen to be taking Black jobs. You had the best- Rachel Scott (08:34): What exactly is a Black job, sir? Donald Trump (08:35): A Black job is anybody that has a job. That’s what it is, anybody that has a job- Harris Faulkner (08:40): All right. Mr. President, can I- Donald Trump (08:42): … and they’re taking the employment away from Black people. They’re coming in and they’re coming in, they’re invading. It’s an invasion of millions of people, probably 15, 16, 17 million people. I have a feeling it’s much more than that and everybody’s been seeing what’s happened. The first group of people, the Black population is affected most by that, and Kamala is allowing it to happen. She’s the border czar. She’s the worst border czar in the history of the world. There’s never been a border czar like this. She’s never even essentially been. She said she was there once, but not the right part of the border. So she was a border czar. She’s done a horrible job. These people are coming into our country and they’re taking Black jobs and Hispanic jobs and, frankly, they’re taking union jobs. (09:24)Unions are being very badly affected by all of the millions of people that are pouring into our country. And one thing, Harris, as we discussed, many of these people are coming in from mental institutions, from prisons, from jails. They’re gang members in other countries. Other countries are setting loose their prisoners. They’re opening up their prisons and their mental institutions, and they’re taking their bad people, drug dealers, gang members, and they’re bringing them into the United States. And, by the way, their crime rate is going down and our crime rate is going to be a disaster. Harris Faulkner (09:59): Mr. President, I Harris Faulkner (10:00): I want to get into how you address some of the issues with Black communities, and I say that plural because we live in communities of color that are different. We’re not all the same. We don’t vote the same. We don’t think the same. Donald Trump (10:10): Sure. Harris Faulkner (10:11): It’s not monolithic. So as you come here today, I want to talk about something that bursts, and this is the weight of the inflation on this country right now. The nonprofit Money Management International recently released data from its midyear analysis that we have found a 52% rise in people who are seeking counseling for being in credit debt. They’re paying for food that is sky-high on their credit cards and now they can’t pay that off. The credit counseling nonprofit MMI, as I said, is saying now that they’ve seen surges that they haven’t seen since we were in a pandemic of people in financial trouble. Much of that falls on the shoulders of single moms, single Black moms. When you look statistically, how do you turn it around? What’s your plan for the Black community when it comes to money? Donald Trump (11:03): So first of all, it’s very hard to hear you for whatever reason because of the fact that they have bad equipment ’cause I guess this woman was unable to get the right equipment. But it’s very hard for me to hear you, but I can hear every other word. It’s very difficult, actually. But so I don’t know if they can fix it or do something with it, but I’ll do the best I can with it. The inflation is absolutely destroying our middle class, our working class, virtually every class. Inflation is a disaster in our country. Inflation is a country buster. It breaks every country, and we had, in my opinion, the worst inflation we’ve had, they say it’s 58 years, but I think it’s much more than that. (11:44)It’s been devastating, and if you just take a look at a lot of things they don’t include like interest rates. Interest rates went from 2.4% to 10% and you can’t get the money. People can’t buy houses. They no longer have the American dream. Young people, young Black people, they don’t have the American dream anymore. They can’t buy a house. They can’t borrow the money because of the cost of the money. They can’t because of the cost of housing, because of the cost of build it, because of inflation. Inflation is a disaster, and it’s destroying our country and it’s destroying the Black community probably as much or more- Harris Faulkner (12:21): So what do you do? Donald Trump (12:21): … than any- Harris Faulkner (12:22): What’s your plan? Donald Trump (12:24): You know what we have to do? We have to bring down the cost of energy and that’s going to bring down the cost of inflation. This was all started with a bad energy policy by Joe Biden. By the way, just if I might, I was running against a man named Biden. You probably saw that, and he was losing very badly in the polls, and then he had a rather bad debate. I would say it was a bad debate. I would say it was one of the worst debates in history, and his poll numbers crashed. And instead of saying, “Let’s keep going, and maybe something happens the other way,” they said, “Oh, we’re going to replace him. Let’s just replace him.” That’s like, you’re in a fight. A prizefighter is in a fight. He’s not doing well, you say, “Let’s bring in another fighter.” So our whole campaign was steered toward him and now we have to steer it toward… But ultimately, it’s the same because they have bad policy. They have policies of open borders, unbelievable open borders, horrible energy policies. They want to get rid of, as you say, gasoline in cars. They want get rid of oil. They want to get rid of efficient heating. Kadia Goba (13:29): Mr. President- Donald Trump (13:30): Environmentally, what they’re doing is killing our country. They’re absolutely destroying our country, but the inflation is the thing that’s hurting the Black worker, the Black population, and every other population within our country. Inflation is the worst it’s been, I think, in over 100 years, and they’ll fact check it. They’ll say, “It’s only 58.” Whatever it may be, they don’t add all the numbers, they don’t add the really bad numbers, and you can check that too. But inflation Harris is absolutely destroying this country and the people in our country. Yes, ma’am. Kadia Goba (14:04): Mr. President, can I ask you another question- Donald Trump (14:06): Yes. Kadia Goba (14:08): … that is also impacting Black Americans? Donald Trump (14:08): And that’s very clear now. Good. Kadia Goba (14:11): I’m sorry? Donald Trump (14:12): It’s very clear. I hear you. Kadia Goba (14:13): Okay, so Sonya Massey, someone from Illinois, an unarmed Black woman, was shot the other day in her home by a deputy sheriff. The deputy has since been charged with murder. You’ve said police would get immunity from prosecution if you win. Why should someone like that officer have immunity in your opinion? Donald Trump (14:36): Immunity? Kadia Goba (14:38): Immunity. Donald Trump (14:38): I don’t know the exact case, but I saw something and it didn’t look good to me. It didn’t look good to me. Are you talking with the water, right? Kadia Goba (14:48): Yeah. Well, police- Donald Trump (14:49): It didn’t look- Kadia Goba (14:50): Police unions are not backing this person either. Donald Trump (14:52): Okay. Okay, and they’re going to- Kadia Goba (14:54): But again, why would- Donald Trump (14:54): Are they going to be charging the officer? I guess they’re charging the officer? Kadia Goba (14:58): So why should he receive immunity? Donald Trump (15:00): Well, he might not. It depends. It depends on what happens. I’m talking about people that are much different cases than that. We need people to protect ourselves. And by the way, in Chicago as an example, a few weeks ago on July 4th weekend, they had 117 shootings and 17 deaths. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. We need to have our police officers have their respect and dignity back. In this particular case, I saw something that didn’t look good to me. I didn’t like it. I didn’t like it at all. Kadia Goba (15:33): So can you get a little more specific back to the immunity question, who would make those distinctions? Donald Trump (15:40): Well, right now, for the most part, for the most part, people are protected by their unions, by their police unions or by their police departments. But I’m saying if I felt or if a group of people would feel that somebody was being unfairly prosecuted because the person did a good job maybe with crime or made a mistake, an innocent mistake, there’s a big difference between being a bad person and making an innocent mistake. But if somebody made an innocent mistake, I would want to help that person. Kadia Goba (16:09): What would those exceptions be? What would determine an innocent mistake? Donald Trump (16:14): You go after somebody and it’s a very close call and it’s very dangerous and they have… The policeman’s life and woman is a very difficult thing because sometimes you have less than a second to make a life and death decision, and sometimes very bad decisions are made. They’re not made from an evil standpoint, but they’re made from the standpoint of they made a mistake. Rachel Scott (16:37): Can I ask- Kadia Goba (16:37): So I want to follow up really quickly. Rachel Scott (16:39): Okay, I’m sorry. Kadia Goba (16:40): I find it interesting because you do talk about reining in prosecutors, especially when it comes to prosecutors that are prosecuting you. Why doesn’t that skepticism apply to law enforcement? Donald Trump (16:53): Well, I’ve been prosecuted because I’m a political opponent of two people that have weaponized our justice system. I’ve been prosecuted, I just won the big case in Florida. Everyone said that was the biggest case, that was the most difficult case, and I just won it. Now, Biden has a similar case except much worse. I was protected under the Presidential Records Act. Biden wasn’t because he wasn’t president at the time. And he had 50 years worth of documents and they ruled that he was incompetent and therefore he shouldn’t stand trial. I said, “Isn’t that something? He’s incompetent and he can’t stand trial and yet he can be president. Isn’t that nice?” Rachel Scott (17:31): Mr. President, one of the- Donald Trump (17:32): But they released him on the basis that he was incompetent. They said he had no memory and he was a nice old guy, but he had no memory and therefore we’re not going to prosecute him. I won the case and it got very little publicity. I didn’t notice ABC doing any publicity on it, George- Rachel Scott (17:49): We covered you extensively- Donald Trump (17:49): … George Slopadopoulos- Rachel Scott (17:49): … sir. I’d love to move over on to different topics now. Donald Trump (17:52): … I didn’t notice you do any publicity on it at all. I won the case, the biggest case. This is an attack on a political opponent. I have another one where I have- Rachel Scott (18:02): Sir, if you don’t mind, I’d love to move- Donald Trump (18:02): … a hostile judge- Rachel Scott (18:03): We have you for a limited time, sir. I’d love to move on to different topics if we can. Donald Trump (18:06): … [inaudible 00:18:06] You’re the one that held me up for 35 minutes, just so you understand. Rachel Scott (18:11): If we can move on now to the state of the race, sir, I want to get back to the campaign. Senator JD Vance is your running mate. He’s had a lot of controversy lately, and I want to read you a few things that he has said in the past. He said the Democrats running the country are a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices they’ve made, and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable too. He’s not talking here about how great it is to be a parent. He’s attacking what he says are the choices people are making to not have children. Did you know that he had these views about people who do not have children before you picked him to be your running mate, and do you agree with him? Donald Trump (18:47): No. I know this, he is very family oriented and he thinks family is a great thing. That doesn’t mean he thinks that if you don’t have a family, it’s not… I know people with families, I know people with great families. I know people with very troubled families, and I also know people with no families that didn’t meet the right person. Things happen. You go through life, you don’t meet the right person- Rachel Scott (19:07): But he’s not just talking about- Donald Trump (19:08): Excuse me- Rachel Scott (19:08): … families here. He also says that- Donald Trump (19:09): … and some of those people- Rachel Scott (19:10): … people that don’t have children should get less votes than those that do. Donald Trump (19:12): That’s all right. I’m just speaking for myself. Rachel Scott (19:13): Is that your campaign position? Donald Trump (19:14): I think I’m speaking for him too. He strongly believes in family, but I know people with great families. I know people with not great families that don’t have a family, and the people without the family are far better. They’re superior in many cases. Okay? He’s not saying they’re not. What he’s saying is that he thinks the family experience is a very important thing. It’s a very good thing, but that doesn’t mean that if you grow up and you grow older and you don’t meet somebody that would be wonderful to meet and it would’ve been good that that’s a bad thing. He’s not saying that. My interpretation, you’ll have to ask him actually, but my interpretation is he’s strongly family oriented. But that doesn’t mean if you don’t have a family, there’s something wrong with that. Harris Faulkner (19:56): Mr. President- Rachel Scott (19:57): Just one last point, and then we’ll move on. Just one of the bedrock Rachel Scott (20:00): … our principles of American life is one person, one vote. Senator J.D. Vance has suggested that someone who has children should have more votes than a person who does not have children. I just want to be clear here. Is that the position of your campaign? Donald Trump (20:14): Well, no, but it’s not something I have ever heard before. I can tell you this, right now, you have illegal aliens coming into our country and many from prisons and many from mental institutions, and they want to give them votes. I don’t think they should have votes. They came into our country illegally- Rachel Scott (20:31): People who are only Americans citizens are allowed to vote, sir. Donald Trump (20:31): … they’re taking the vote away from all the people in this room that have been here a long time, that have worked hard, that in many cases, and you’ll see this happening, if I’m not elected, you’re going to see it happen. If I am, you’re not going to have any problem, but you’re going to see it happening, a long time. You’re going to see the people in this room and people outside of this room are going to be losing their jobs to people that have come into this country illegally. Harris Faulkner (20:55): Mr. President, can we stay with just kind of the state of the race right now, because I felt like that vice president question, candidate question was right in there with that. So, let’s talk about J.D. Vance for a little bit. He’s had some stumbles out of the gate. I don’t know if you’re hearing what we hear as reporters, but it’s been a tough couple of weeks for him. Why did you choose J.D. Vance? Donald Trump (21:19): Why did I? Harris Faulkner (21:19): Why did you choose him? And I’m having a hard time hearing, too. Everybody out there can, but it’s hard to- Donald Trump (21:24): I’ll tell you why. I chose him because he’s a very strong believer in work and the working man and woman, and especially the working man and woman who have been treated very unfairly because you have many of them, many of them in this room, but you have many of those people, they were treated very unfairly. They worked very hard and they were treated unfairly. He wrote the book that became a best-seller. The movie became a smash hit. He’s a very smart guy without the benefit of having a family that has contacts, like a father that was well-connected. He got into Yale Law School. He graduated in two years from Ohio State, Summa Cum Laude. I mean, you take a look at, his career has been an amazing career. He started off at a level with a difficult family situation, very difficult with the mother and the father and everything else. (22:20)He ends up going to Yale Law School and was one of the top students, became the head of the law journal. I mean, that’s an amazing thing. He’s a four year, he was in the military with great distinction for four years, got out, went into business, became successful in business, very successful in business actually, did public offerings and other things, and I have to believe in that. I mean, he’s somebody that was born in a rough situation. Most of the people know that situation because it was very well documented in his book, and I have a lot of respect for somebody that can get into Yale and become one of the best students in Yale, that meets a young woman at Yale who was also outstanding. And they get married. They have a beautiful family, but he had a… He’s made himself an amazing life. He then goes to Ohio, lives in Ohio, and he had my endorsement, that helped, but he wins the Senate. He becomes a United States Senator, so he’s a United States Senator. And so, Harris, like I respect you for your success, I respect people for their success. Harris Faulkner (23:31): The reason I asked the question is because the last time you and I sat and talked was the day that you were shot. We’d been together for much of that day. You left to go to Butler, Pennsylvania, and we didn’t know what was next. Donald Trump (23:44): Yeah. Harris Faulkner (23:44): Two days after that- Donald Trump (23:45): I’m sorry, I cannot understand. Your microphone is so- Harris Faulkner (23:47): I know. It is really hard for me to understand you, too. Donald Trump (23:49): I mean, it’s just, I can understand you perfectly. Harris Faulkner (23:51): Because she’s closer. Donald Trump (23:52): I can understand you. Rachel Scott (23:54): I’m happy to hear that, sir. Donald Trump (23:54): But I can’t understand- Rachel Scott (23:55): Really happy to hear that. Donald Trump (23:56): … Harris. Rachel Scott (23:57): I have a few more questions. Donald Trump (23:58): Because of the distance and the mics are really in lousy shape, but I cannot understand- Kadia Goba (24:02): Are you asking a question? Donald Trump (24:04): … what you’re saying? Go ahead. Harris Faulkner (24:06): So, what I wanted to say was the last time we spoke, you said some words that were prophetic because I asked you who you wanted to choose for vice president, and you said normally it really wouldn’t matter what they would bring, you choose somebody that you think has a future, that sort of thing. But you said these words three and a half hours before an attempted assassination on your life. You told me that, “Bad things happen, Harris, and that’s why this decision is important this time.” Bad things happen. You said it twice. When you look at J.D. Vance, is he ready on day one? Donald Trump (24:43): Does he what? Harris Faulkner (24:43): Ready on day one, if he has to be? Donald Trump (24:46): I’ve always had great respect for him and for the other candidates, too. But I will say this, and I think this is well documented. Historically, the vice president in terms of the election, does not have any impact. I mean, virtually no impact. You have two or three days where there’s a lot of commotion as to who, like you’re having it on the Democrat side, who it’s going to be, and then that dies down and it’s all about the presidential pick. Virtually, never has it mattered. Maybe Lyndon Johnson mattered for different reasons than what we’re talking about. Not for vote reasons, but for political reasons, other political reasons. But historically, the choice of a vice president makes no difference. You’re voting for the president and you can have a vice president who’s outstanding in every way, and I think J.D. Is, I think that all of them would’ve been, but you’re not voting that way. You’re voting for the president. You’re voting for me. If you like me, I’m going to win. If you don’t like me, I’m not going to win. Kadia Goba (25:45): I’m going to get my J.D. Vance question in. Donald Trump (25:48): J.D. Vance? Kadia Goba (25:48): I’m going to get my J.D. Vance question in. To your point, and to Rachel’s point, he has a lot of opinions about childless women like myself, or divorce people like yourself. Do you think… Well, I mean, my point is here- Donald Trump (26:06): But at least was said in a friendly manner. Kadia Goba (26:07): My point is, do you think the Republican Party’s getting a little bit too judgy about people’s lives, when you think about abortion or when you think about what J.D. Vance is saying? Donald Trump (26:20): I don’t think… Look, I think that the Democrat party is really the one that has the problem. I think they’re radical on abortion because they’re allowing abortion in the ninth month. They’re allowing the death- Kadia Goba (26:32): But, I think it’s about freedom, right? Donald Trump (26:33): They’re the death of a baby after the baby is born based on governor of Virginia. Rachel Scott (26:39): Sir, that’s illegal in every state in America. Donald Trump (26:40): Based on the Governor of Virginia, they’re allowing the death of the baby- Rachel Scott (26:42): Executing a baby in every state in the country is illegal. Donald Trump (26:43): … after it’s born. Rachel Scott (26:44): It’s a crime. Donald Trump (26:45): They’re allowing abortions in the eighth and ninth month. Kadia Goba (26:47): Well, Democrats have denied- Donald Trump (26:48): I think they’re right, and I think the Republican Party is actually much lesser. I think I’ve made them much less radical, perhaps, but the Republican Party, what we’re doing is bringing it back to the states where everybody wanted it. Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, everybody wanted abortion brought back. They didn’t want Roe, v. Wade in the federal government. They wanted it, everybody wanted it back- Rachel Scott (27:10): But the majority of Americans oppose- Donald Trump (27:12): Excuse me. Rachel Scott (27:12): … Roe v. Wade being overturned. Multiple poles have shown that, sir. Donald Trump (27:14): That don’t know about this. Right now, they’re voting. It brought it back to the states. Now, I happen to believe in the three exceptions. Ronald Reagan believed with rape, incest, life of the mother. I do. I think most people do. I think most Republicans do, also. But if you take a look, right now, they’re doing… It’s an amazing thing, out of the federal government, it’s in states and people are voting. And I will say, Ohio is, let’s call it a more liberal version, has been approved. Kansas, the same thing. A little bit surprising to a lot of people, but the people are now voting and it’s taking this issue that’s been going on for 52 years and has torn our country apart, and it’s giving it to the people to vote on, and they’re voting, and many states have already voted, others are in the process of voting, and it’s bringing it back to the people and a vote of the people, and it’s not at all radical. (28:10)And again, you have to follow your heart. I happen to believe in the three exceptions. Most people believe in the three exceptions. Most Republicans believe in the exceptions, but they don’t want to see an abortion in the ninth month or the eighth month. Almost everybody agrees to that, and they certainly don’t want to see, in the case of the governor of Virginia, the former governor I might add, who said, we set the baby aside and then we decide what to do, meaning what do we do, we execute the baby. That’s a radical, horrible position, and some people want that. I don’t want it. Most people don’t. Kadia Goba (28:46): Thank you. Can I just pivot really quickly to another question about, you brought up health, Harris. You’re an active man. We see you golfing all the time, but if you win, you’ll still be president at 82, which is older than Biden is right now. Donald Trump (29:06): But not mentally. Look, mentally. Kadia Goba (29:09): Here’s the question. Donald Trump (29:10): He’s shot. He’s shot. But most people- Kadia Goba (29:12): Would you consider- Donald Trump (29:13): Most people, I know many people in their eighties and their nineties that are in great shape, some of our greatest leaders. You look at throughout the world, world history, the greatest leaders, some of the greatest leaders in the world were in their eighties. Kadia Goba (29:25): But here’s the question. Would you consider stepping down if you felt that your health was declining or would you- Donald Trump (29:32): Oh, absolutely. Kadia Goba (29:33): And who would make- Donald Trump (29:33): I think I’d know. Kadia Goba (29:34): How would you make that decision? Donald Trump (29:35): I think I’d know. Look, if I came onto a stage like this and I got treated so rudely is this woman treated me. Harris Faulkner (29:41): Oh my goodness. Donald Trump (29:43): And I’m fine with it, because she was very rude, sir. Very rude. That was a nasty… That wasn’t a question. She didn’t ask me a question- Kadia Goba (29:51): Sir, could you answer question? Donald Trump (29:52): She gave a statement, that wasn’t a question. Rachel Scott (29:54): I repeated your statement, sir, actually. Kadia Goba (29:56): You said you would make that decision. Donald Trump (29:58): Oh, absolutely. If I thought Donald Trump (30:00): … that I was failing in some way. I want people to be shocked. I’ll go a step further. I want anybody running for president to take an aptitude test, to take a cognitive test. I think it’s a great idea. And I took two of them and I aced them. Speaker 2 (30:15): Well, can I just- Donald Trump (30:16): I took two of them, but let me ask. Speaker 2 (30:17): Yeah. Yeah. Donald Trump (30:18): I would like to have people running for president, and I don’t mean because they’re 75 or 85, I think anybody running, I’d like to do it. People say it’s not constitutional. I would like to have something passed where you can do it. I think we should know. I’ve watched what’s happened in the last couple of years under this gentleman, and our country is a mess. We have inflation, we have the millions of people falling in. We have Afghanistan, which was the worst, most embarrassing moment in the history of our country, what he has done to our country, and her too, what they’ve done to our country. She has been a horrible vice president. She’s considered the worst vice president in the history of our country. Speaker 3 (31:00): Mr. President- Speaker 2 (31:02): Don’t mean to interrupt you, but would you consider taking the cognitive test? Speaker 3 (31:04): Mr. President- Donald Trump (31:04): I would love to do it- Speaker 2 (31:05): And make it public? Donald Trump (31:06): Well, I’ve already taken two of them, but I’ll do it again. Speaker 3 (31:08): Mr. president, how do you intend to- Donald Trump (31:10): I suggested Harris that… Let’s take one. I said Joe and I will go and take a cognitive test. Now, I’d do it with her too. I would do it with her also. You know what? She failed her law exam. She didn’t pass her law exam, so maybe she wouldn’t pass the cognitive test. Speaker 3 (31:27): Mr. President- Rachel Scott (31:28): Are you’re saying she wouldn’t pass? Just to be clear, you- Donald Trump (31:30): I’m just giving you the facts. Rachel Scott (31:31): To be clear, you don’t think Harris would pass a cognitive test? Speaker 3 (31:32): How do you intend… And look- Donald Trump (31:34): She didn’t pass her bar exam, and she didn’t think she would pass it, and she didn’t think she was going to ever pass it. And I don’t know what happened. Maybe she passed it. I guess she- Rachel Scott (31:42): She did pass it. Donald Trump (31:43): There’s a man over here. Rachel Scott (31:44): She did, in fact, pass it. Donald Trump (31:45): I think he must work for her. Rachel Scott (31:45): Mr. President, I would love to ask you about January 6th. You’ve called yourself the candidate of law and order. When Time Magazine asked you if you would consider pardoning all the rioters, you said, “Yes, absolutely.” Donald Trump (31:57): Sure. Rachel Scott (31:57): You called them patriots. 140 police officers were assaulted that day. Their injuries included broken bones. At least one officer lost an eye, one had two cracked ribs, two smashed spinal discs, another had a stroke. Were the people who assaulted those 140 officers, including those I just mentioned, patriots who deserve pardons. Donald Trump (32:19): Well, let me bring it back to modern day, like about five days ago. We had an attack on the Capitol, a horrible attack on the Capitol. You saw the people that were protesting and spraying these incredible monuments, bells, lions, all these magnificent limestone and granite with red paint, red spray paint that will never actually come off, especially in the limestone. It will never… I’m a builder. I know about this stuff. You’ll see it in a hundred years from now. They viciously attacked our government. They fought with police. They fought with them much more openly than I saw on January 6th. What’s going to happen to those people? What’s going to happen to the in Portland that destroyed that city? Rachel Scott (32:59): My question is on those- Donald Trump (32:59): What’s going to happen to people that tried to burn- Rachel Scott (33:00): My question is on those rioters who assaulted officers. Donald Trump (33:05): Excuse me. You have to ask- Rachel Scott (33:05): Would you pardon those people? Donald Trump (33:06): … what’s going to happen. Oh absolutely, I would. Rachel Scott (33:08): You would pardon those- Donald Trump (33:09): If they’re innocent, I would pardon them. Rachel Scott (33:11): They’ve been convicted. Donald Trump (33:12): And by the way, the Supreme Court just under… Well, they were convicted by a very tough system. They were… How come the people that tried to burn down Minneapolis, how come the people that took over a large percentage of Seattle, how come nothing happened to them? How come the people that- Rachel Scott (33:32): But sir, we’re talking about people that were seen beating officers- Donald Trump (33:32): No, no, no. We’re talking about federal buildings. Rachel Scott (33:32): … with flag poles, dragging them down the stairs. They’re on video. Have you seen that video, sir? Donald Trump (33:39): Really? Oh, really? Well, they shot- Rachel Scott (33:41): You would pardon those rioters? Donald Trump (33:42): They shot a young lady in the face who was protesting. They shot her the face. Nobody died that day. You do know that, but people died in Seattle. Nobody died, but people died in Minneapolis. Rachel Scott (33:55): 140 officers were assaulted that day. Donald Trump (33:56): You know people died in Minneapolis. And nothing happens, and nobody ever talks, and nothing happens to those people, but you went after the J6 people with a vengeance. And I’ll tell you what, what about the cops that were… And I’m all for the police, as you know, but what about the police that are ushering everybody into the Capitol? “Go in, go in, go in.” What about that? Look, nothing is perfect in life, but you have people from Minneapolis, you have people just from five days ago in Washington D.C., they were having fist fights and fighting with the police. They were spraying and destroying. They were desecrating our monuments in Washington D.C. five days ago, and nothing happened to them. (34:42)And you can’t have two systems of justice. That’s why they went after me as a political opponent, because they felt they couldn’t win without doing that. And we’re going to win our cases and we’re going to be vindicated, but I have to spend a lot of time on that, and money. That’s what they want. After the election, they won’t care. Although in my case, I think they probably will because the hatred is pretty deep. But I’ll tell you, they went after me as a political opponent. That’s never happened in our country before, and it sets a terrible, terrible precedent. Speaker 3 (35:12): What do you do on day one? If you win? What’s your first thing? Donald Trump (35:15): What do I do? I close the border. I’d do two things because I can do a lot of things simultaneously. I close the border. We don’t want people coming. We want people to come in Harris, but they have to be vetted. They have to be checked. They have to come in legally. We want people- Speaker 3 (35:28): Legal, yeah. Donald Trump (35:29): I want people to come into our country, but they have to be vetted. They have to be checked. So when you say, what do I do, that, and I drill, baby, drill. I bring energy way down, I bring interest rates are down, I bring inflation way down so people can buy bacon again, so people can buy a ham sandwich again so that people can go to a restaurant and afford it. Because right now, people can’t buy food. Your grocery bills are up 40, 50, 60%, right? She’s agreeing to me. Oh, she’s agreeing. Thank you. I like you very much, Speaker 3 (36:01): Mr. President. I think we are- Donald Trump (36:02): But it’s true. Your grocery bills are up. And then they’re mandating that you buy an all-electric car. Elon Musk endorsed me, and he’s a friend of mine. He’s a good guy. He is a smart guy, but I’m against everybody having an electric car. Okay? I’m very much against that. You have to be able to… If you want a hybrid or if you want a gasoline-propelled car, but we have more liquid gold, gasoline, oil under our feet than any other country, more than Saudi Arabia, more than Russia, more than any other country. I want to use it. I want to use what we have. I want to bring down prices, bring down costs, and I also have to stop the invasion. And remember, they’re taking your jobs. These people coming in are taking your jobs. Speaker 3 (36:48): Project 2025. Rachel Scott (36:50): I think we have to leave it there by the Trump team. So leave it. That is the last word. Thank you so much, Mr. Trump, for coming today and joining us. Donald Trump (36:59): Well, thank you very much. Rachel Scott (37:01): They’ve been telling us. Donald Trump (37:03): Thank you, [inaudible 00:37:04]. Thank you everybody, very much. Great honor. Rachel Scott (37:05): Thank you, Mr. President. Donald Trump (37:09): Thank you. Rachel Scott (37:09): NABJ will email about details regarding the conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris in September. Thank you. Donald Trump (37:13): Thank you very much. Rachel Scott (37:13): Thank you, sir. Donald Trump (37:13): Thank you. 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aug president donald trump speak annual national association black journalist convention chicago read transcript speaker lady gentleman welcome annual national association black journalist convention career fair begin conversation president donald trump ask professionalism bring newsroom workplace day professionalism maintain arena welcome stage abc news senior congressional correspondent rachel scott semafor political reporter kadia goba anchor faulkner focus cohost outnumber fox news harris faulkner rachel scott nabj mic test test test good afternoon nabj welcome conversation president donald trump discussion continue decadeslong tradition election year invite journalist discuss policy impact candidate run president impact policy especially black community president george w bush barack obama bill clinton attend nabj convention president presidential candidate past year nabj currently conversation vice president kamala harris team schedule qa person virtually september journalist use opportunity like inform reporting help voter understand choice face consequential historic election year nabj partner politifact fact check conversation real time access feed social medium hashtag nabj fact check hashtag nabj fact check lot want waste time let bring president united states republican nominee president president donald trump donald trump hello rachel scott hi mr trump rachel scott abc thank donald trump rachel scott mr president appreciate give hour time want start address elephant room sir lot people think appropriate today push false claim rival nikki haley president barack obama say bear united states true tell congresswoman woman color american citizen come word like animal rabid describe black district attorney attack black journalist call loser say question ask quote stupid racist dinner white supremacist maralago resort question sir ask black supporter vote black voter trust language like donald trump think ask question horrible manner question hello abc think fake news network terrible network think disgraceful come good spirit love black population country black population country include employment include opportunity zone senator tim scott south carolina great program black worker black entrepreneur historically black college university money stone cold break save give longterm financing think rude introduction know exactly like let step invite tell opponent biden kamala tell opponent go turn opponent invite false pretense say zoom zoom go zoom come half hour late understand respect late equipment work rachel scott mr president donald trump think nasty question rachel scott love answer question rhetoric donald trump answer question rachel scott believe black voter trust year donald trump good president black population abraham lincoln answer rachel scott well president johnson sign voting right act donald trump start question answer period especially minute late equipment work hostile manner think disgrace think disgrace rachel scott let ask followup sir question supporter include republicans capitol hill label vice president kamala harris black asian american woman serve vice president major party ticket dei hire acceptable language tell republicans supporter stop donald trump define dei ahead define rachel scott diversity equity inclusion donald trump okay yeah ahead definition rachel scott literally word donald trump definition rachel scott dei donald trump definition definition rachel scott sir ask question direct question donald trump define define rachel scott define sir believe vice president kamala harris ticket black woman donald trump think maybe little bit different know long time indirectly directly indian heritage promote indian heritage know black number year ago happen turn black want know black know indian black rachel scott identify black woman donald trump know rachel scott go historically black college donald trump respect obviously indian way sudden turn black person rachel scott clear sir believe donald trump think somebody look ask continue hostile nasty tone rachel scott direct question sir believe vice president kamala harris dei hire republicans say donald trump know mean know plenty know lady right harris fantastic person interview length great interview think hear get good rating interview harris faulkner tell long life good discussion look want talk today mean lose divided country come today get divide line race line gender question moment come message today donald trump message stop people invade country take frankly lot problem big problem lot journalist room know great respect lot journalist room black tell come border million million people happen take black job good rachel scott exactly black job sir donald trump black job anybody job anybody job harris faulkner right mr president donald trump take employment away black people come come invade invasion million people probably million people feeling everybody see happen group people black population affect kamala allow happen border czar bad border czar history world border czar like essentially say right border border czar horrible job people come country take black job hispanic job frankly take union job badly affect million people pour country thing harris discuss people come mental institution prison jail gang member country country set loose prisoner open prison mental institution take bad people drug dealer gang member bring united states way crime rate go crime rate go disaster harris faulkner mr president harris faulkner want address issue black community plural live community color different vote think donald trump sure harris faulkner monolithic come today want talk burst weight inflation country right nonprofit money management international recently release datum midyear analysis find rise people seek counseling credit debt pay food skyhigh credit card pay credit counseling nonprofit mmi say say see surge see pandemic people financial trouble fall shoulder single mom single black mom look statistically turn plan black community come money donald trump hard hear reason fact bad equipment guess woman unable right equipment hard hear hear word difficult actually know fix good inflation absolutely destroy middle class work class virtually class inflation disaster country inflation country buster break country opinion bad inflation year think devastating look lot thing include like interest rate interest rate go money people buy house long american dream young people young black people american dream anymore buy house borrow money cost money cost housing cost build inflation inflation disaster destroy country destroy black community probably harris faulkner donald trump harris faulkner plan donald trump know bring cost energy go bring cost inflation start bad energy policy joe biden way run man name biden probably see lose badly poll bad debate bad debate bad debate history poll number crash instead say let go maybe happen way say oh go replace let replace like fight prizefighter fight let bring fighter campaign steer steer ultimately bad policy policy open border unbelievable open border horrible energy policy want rid gasoline car want rid oil want rid efficient heating kadia goba mr president donald trump environmentally kill country absolutely destroy country inflation thing hurt black worker black population population country inflation bad think year fact check add number add bad number check inflation harris absolutely destroy country people country yes kadia goba mr president ask question donald trump yes kadia goba impact black americans donald trump clear good kadia goba sorry donald trump clear hear kadia goba okay sonya massey illinois unarmed black woman shoot day home deputy sheriff deputy charge murder say police immunity prosecution win like officer immunity opinion donald trump immunity kadia goba immunity donald trump know exact case see look good look good talk water right kadia goba yeah police donald trump look kadia goba police union back person donald trump okay okay go kadia goba donald trump go charge officer guess charge officer kadia goba receive immunity donald trump depend depend happen talk people different case need people protect way chicago example week ago july weekend shooting death want want need police officer respect dignity particular case see look good like like kadia goba little specific immunity question distinction donald trump right people protect union police union police department say feel group people feel somebody unfairly prosecute person good job maybe crime mistake innocent mistake big difference bad person make innocent mistake somebody innocent mistake want help person kadia goba exception determine innocent mistake donald trump somebody close dangerous policeman life woman difficult thing second life death decision bad decision evil standpoint standpoint mistake rachel scott ask kadia goba want follow quickly rachel scott okay sorry kadia goba find interesting talk rein prosecutor especially come prosecutor prosecute skepticism apply law enforcement donald trump prosecute political opponent people weaponize justice system prosecute win big case florida say big case difficult case win biden similar case bad protect presidential record act biden president time year worth document rule incompetent stand trial say incompetent stand trial president nice rachel scott mr president donald trump release basis incompetent say memory nice old guy memory go prosecute win case get little publicity notice abc publicity george rachel scott cover extensively donald trump george slopadopoulos rachel scott sir love different topic donald trump notice publicity win case big case attack political opponent rachel scott sir mind love donald trump hostile judge rachel scott limited time sir love different topic donald trump inaudible hold minute understand rachel scott state race sir want campaign senator jd vance running mate lot controversy lately want read thing say past say democrats run country bunch childless cat lady miserable life choice want rest country miserable talk great parent attack say choice people make child know view people child pick running mate agree donald trump know family orient think family great thing mean think family know people family know people great family know people troubled family know people family meet right person thing happen life meet right person rachel scott talk donald trump excuse rachel scott family say donald trump people rachel scott people child vote donald trump right speak rachel scott campaign position donald trump think speak strongly believe family know people great family know people great family family people family far well superior case okay say say think family experience important thing good thing mean grow grow old meet somebody wonderful meet good bad thing say interpretation ask actually interpretation strongly family orient mean family wrong harris faulkner mr president rachel scott point bedrock rachel scott principle american life person vote senator jd vance suggest child vote person child want clear position campaign donald trump hear tell right illegal alien come country prison mental institution want vote think vote come country illegally rachel scott people americans citizen allow vote sir donald trump take vote away people room long time work hard case happen elect go happen go problem go happen long time go people room people outside room go lose job people come country illegally harris faulkner mr president stay kind state race right feel like vice president question candidate question right let talk jd vance little bit stumble gate know hear hear reporter tough couple week choose jd vance donald trump harris faulkner choose have hard time hear everybody hard donald trump tell choose strong believer work work man woman especially work man woman treat unfairly room people treat unfairly work hard treat unfairly write book bestseller movie smash hit smart guy benefit have family contact like father wellconnecte get yale law school graduate year ohio state summa cum laude mean look career amazing career start level difficult family situation difficult mother father end go yale law school student head law journal mean amazing thing year military great distinction year get go business successful business successful business actually public offering thing believe mean somebody bear rough situation people know situation document book lot respect somebody yale good student yale meet young woman yale outstanding marry beautiful family amazing life go ohio live ohio endorsement help win senate united states senator united states senator harris like respect success respect people success harris faulkner reason ask question time sit talk day shoot day leave butler pennsylvania know donald trump yeah harris faulkner day donald trump sorry understand microphone harris faulkner know hard understand donald trump mean understand perfectly harris faulkner close donald trump understand rachel scott happy hear sir donald trump understand rachel scott happy hear donald trump harris rachel scott question donald trump distance mic lousy shape understand kadia goba ask question donald trump say ahead harris faulkner want time speak say word prophetic ask want choose vice president say normally matter bring choose somebody think future sort thing say word half hour attempt assassination life tell bad thing happen harris decision important time bad thing happen say twice look jd vance ready day donald trump harris faulkner ready day donald trump great respect candidate think document historically vice president term election impact mean virtually impact day lot commotion like have democrat go die presidential pick virtually matter maybe lyndon johnson matter different reason talk vote reason political reason political reason historically choice vice president make difference vote president vice president outstanding way think jd think vote way vote president vote like go win like go win kadia goba go jd vance question donald trump jd vance kadia goba go jd vance question point rachel point lot opinion childless woman like divorce people like think mean point donald trump say friendly manner kadia goba point think republican party get little bit judgy people life think abortion think jd vance say donald trump think look think democrat party problem think radical abortion allow abortion ninth month allow death kadia goba think freedom right donald trump death baby baby bear base governor virginia rachel scott sir illegal state america donald trump base governor virginia allow death baby rachel scott execute baby state country illegal donald trump bear rachel scott crime donald trump allow abortion eighth ninth month kadia goba democrats deny donald trump think right think republican party actually less think radical republican party bring state everybody want democrats republicans liberal conservative everybody want abortion bring want roe v wade federal government want everybody want rachel scott majority americans oppose donald trump excuse rachel scott roe v wade overturn multiple pole show sir donald trump know right vote bring state happen believe exception ronald reagan believe rape incest life mother think people think republicans look right amazing thing federal government state people vote ohio let liberal version approve kansas thing little bit surprising lot people people vote take issue go year tear country apart give people vote vote state vote process voting bring people vote people radical follow heart happen believe exception people believe exception republicans believe exception want abortion ninth month eighth month everybody agree certainly want case governor virginia governor add say set baby aside decide mean execute baby radical horrible position people want want people kadia goba thank pivot quickly question bring health harris active man golf time win president old biden right donald trump mentally look mentally kadia goba question donald trump shoot shoot people kadia goba consider donald trump people know people eighty ninety great shape great leader look world world history great leader great leader world eighty kadia goba question consider step feel health decline donald trump oh absolutely kadia goba donald trump think know kadia goba decision donald trump think know look come stage like get treat rudely woman treat harris faulkner oh goodness donald trump fine rude sir rude nasty question ask question kadia goba sir answer question donald trump give statement question rachel scott repeat statement sir actually kadia goba say decision donald trump oh absolutely think donald trump fail way want people shock step want anybody run president aptitude test cognitive test think great idea take ace speaker donald trump take let ask speaker yeah yeah donald trump like people run president mean think anybody run like people constitutional like pass think know watch happen couple year gentleman country mess inflation million people fall afghanistan bad embarrassing moment history country country country horrible vice president consider bad vice president history country speaker mr president speaker mean interrupt consider take cognitive test speaker mr president donald trump love speaker public donald trump take speaker mr president intend donald trump suggest harris let say joe cognitive test know fail law exam pass law exam maybe pass cognitive test speaker mr president rachel scott say pass clear donald trump give fact rachel scott clear think harris pass cognitive test speaker intend look donald trump pass bar exam think pass think go pass know happen maybe pass guess rachel scott pass donald trump man rachel scott fact pass donald trump think work rachel scott mr president love ask january call candidate law order time magazine ask consider pardon rioter say yes absolutely donald trump sure rachel scott call patriot police officer assault day injury include broken bone officer lose eye crack rib smash spinal disc stroke people assault officer include mention patriot deserve pardon donald trump let bring modern day like day ago attack capitol horrible attack capitol see people protest spray incredible monument bell lion magnificent limestone granite red paint red spray paint actually come especially limestone builder know stuff year viciously attack government fight police fight openly see january go happen people go happen portland destroy city rachel scott question donald trump go happen people try burn rachel scott question rioter assault officer donald trump excuse ask rachel scott pardon people donald trump go happen oh absolutely rachel scott pardon donald trump innocent pardon rachel scott convict donald trump way supreme court convict tough system come people try burn minneapolis come people take large percentage seattle come happen come people rachel scott sir talk people see beat officer donald trump talk federal building rachel scott flag pole drag stair video see video sir donald trump oh shoot rachel scott pardon rioter donald trump shoot young lady face protest shoot face die day know people die seattle die people die minneapolis rachel scott officer assault day donald trump know people die minneapolis happen talk happen people go people vengeance tell cop police know police usher everybody capitol look perfect life people minneapolis people day ago washington dc have fist fight fight police spray destroy desecrate monument washington dc day ago happen system justice go political opponent feel win go win case go vindicate spend lot time money want election will care case think probably hatred pretty deep tell go political opponent happen country set terrible terrible precedent speaker day win thing donald trump close border thing lot thing simultaneously close border want people come want people come harris vet check come legally want people speaker legal yeah donald trump want people come country vet check drill baby drill bring energy way bring interest rate bring inflation way people buy bacon people buy ham sandwich people restaurant afford right people buy food grocery bill right agree oh agree thank like speaker mr president think donald trump true grocery bill mandate buy allelectric car elon musk endorse friend good guy smart guy everybody have electric car okay able want hybrid want gasolinepropelled car liquid gold gasoline oil foot country saudi arabia russia country want use want use want bring price bring cost stop invasion remember take job people come take job speaker project rachel scott think leave trump team leave word thank mr trump come today join donald trump thank rachel scott tell donald trump thank inaudible thank everybody great honor rachel scott thank mr president donald trump thank rachel scott nabj email detail conversation vice president kamala harris september thank donald trump thank rachel scott thank sir donald trump thank 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Ep. 1859 - Musk Is Right: Kill DEI To Fight Anti-Semitism Published: 11/30/2023 (in RSS feed: 50m 55s) Is your dog chomping on your sneakers while you're busy tuning in? Toss 'em up. Bena Bone Made right here in the USA. Beone Chew toys are bursting with S slobber worthy flavors like real bacon. And since dogs don't have thumbs, we made 'em paw friendly to get a good chew going, use discount code dog [email protected] for 30% off every bone on the site. That's dog 30 for 30% off [email protected]. Your tennis shoes. We'll thank you. The show's s sponsored by ExpressVPN. It's time to stand up against big tech. Protect our data at ExpressVPN dot com slash Ben. Yesterday sent a majority leader Chuck Schumer of New York took to the floor of the Senate to decry antisemitism. Schumer is not an amazing source on this particular topic. given his consistent support of the Middle East policies of the most antisemitic president in modern American history, Barack Obama Nonetheless. He spoke about the threat of antisemitism and in a rare moment of quasi honesty, he actually mentioned the problem of antisemitism among liberals. Here's what he had to say. I feel compelled to speak because I'm the highest ranking Jewish elected official in America. in fact, the highest ranking Jewish elected official ever in American history and I have noticed a significant disparity be between how Jewish people regard the rise of antisemitism and how many of my non-Jewish friends regard it anti-Semites are taking advantage of the pro-Palestinian movement to esti espouse hatred and bigotry towards Jewish people. But rather than call out this dangerous behavior for what it is, we see so many of our friends and fellow citizens, particularly young people who yearn for justice unknowingly aiding and abetting their cause. Note the language there. There are people hijacking the pro-Palestinian movement. They're hijacking it. The young people, they're, they're so good-hearted, they just don't know what they do. Schumer actually explained that the phrase from the river to the sea, a genocidal call to destroy all Jews was actually just ignorance. Plenty of people, Schumer actually said, chant that phrase quote, not because they hate Jewish people, but because they support a better future for Palestinians. Of course, that is a lie and it's a particularly egregious lie when Schumer himself has had zero to say about anti-Semite, Rashida Lib and Han Omar inside his own caucus. for example, there were some people last night, chaing from the river to the sea in New York City while they attempted to stop the lighting of the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center last night. Do these look like good-hearted but slightly misinformed people to you give people attacking police officers right outside Rockefeller Center? Don't worry. According Chuck Schumer, they're just too passionate about the pro-Palestinian cause they, they're not antisemitic, they're not radical in any way. They're just ignorant. You know, liberals, they're never the bad guys. According to Chuck Schumer, what we're watching is precisely the mentality created by the world of leftist ideology. And Schumer knows that, but he has to lie about it because to recognize the roots of left wing antisemitism would be to destroy the progressive ideology wholesale. That leftist ideology is based on a matrix of oppressor versus oppressed. That in any given situation, the powerless are oppressed and the powerful are the oppressors that oppressor oppressed matrix maps directly onto anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about Jewish power. Jews are pseudo white because Jews are financially well off and Israel is disproportionately successful in a really unsuccessful region of the world. The oppressor oppressed matrix simply doesn't fit the Jews who are actually being victimized by widespread Jew hatred in the Middle East and abroad, but who also are very successful. So the left keeps pushing the lie. That's also true of the Anti-Defamation League, which put out a poll yesterday with Hillel International, which is a college group asking college students if diversity, equity and Inclusion should cover anti-Jewish prejudice, diversity equity, and Inclusion DEI is the rubric under which the left pushes the idea that unequal group outcomes are the result of systemic discrimination. So by that math, Jews are the beneficiaries of systemic discrimination because of course they're disproportionately successful. DEI simply cannot include Jews because de i's basic logic forbids it. DEI opposes meritocracy. It opposes performance, it opposes success. Nonetheless the 84% of Jewish students and 75% of non-Jewish college students said Jews should be included in DEI training that Jews should be somehow included in the oppressor oppressed matrix on the side of the oppressed. Of course, these students say that. What else exactly would they say? The premise of the question is so deeply flawed. Only one answer is possible to say that Jews shouldn't be included in DEI would be to discriminate against Jews, which violates the supposed basis of DEI itself. But to include Jews explodes the entire DEI superstructure because again, DEI is based on the idea of oppressor versus oppressed. And if Jews are included on the side of the oppressed, how are they so successful? So these students are saying what they're expected to say. Sure, the Jews can be included in the victim class without recognizing the central truth of DEI. It is a scam. Victimhood is not inherently connected to level of success. Sometimes the powerless are evil. Sometimes the powerful are good. Sometimes the powerless are actually victimizers. Sometimes the powerful are the victims. You can't fight antisemitism with DEI. You can only increase antisemitism with DEI because the entire framework is a conspiracy theory. The only way to truly fight antisemitism is to recognize what the Bible says in Deuteronomy. Quote, you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. But that's the one thing Chuck Schumer and the ADL will never say, because again, it would violate their ideology. Instead, people on the left will pretend the true antisemitism doesn't lie in oppressor oppressed matrices, but in people like Elon Musk, and they'll target him specifically because he doesn't like DEI, they'll claim that DEI is the way to fight antisemitism. So if Elon Musk fights DEI, that means he's bad. They'll slander him as an antisemite. Even as he goes to Israel to express solidarity with the families of murdered Jews, they'll try to activate advertisers to pull their money from Twitter supposedly, because Elon Musk is the root of all antisemitic evil. Elon Musk, to his credit, is fighting back against this. Here's a clip yesterday of Elon Musk. It's an absolute classic. He was being asked about advertisers canceling because they don't like his politics. Here is what he had to say to Andrew Ross Sorkin over a deal book in at at the New York Times Apology tour, if you will. This had been said online. There was all of the criticism, there was advertisers leaving. We talked to Bob Igar today. I I, hope they stop you hope don't advertise. You don't want them to advertise. No. What do you mean? If somebody's gonna try to blackmail me with advertising, blackmail me with money, go yourself, but go yourself. Is that clear? I I. Hope it is. Hey Bob. Hey Bob is a reference to Bob Iger who's in the audience. He's the head of Disney. All the people pushing DEI are the exact same people seeking to boycott Mosque are the exact same people who are seeking to pussyfoot around Hamas' feelings like right now. The Venn diagram of that group is a circle. That circle is the true threat to Jews in Israel and in the West. In just one second, we'll get to the latest from Israel where the tenuous ceasefire, the break seems to be on the rocks specifically because Kamas is, you know, murdering Jews. Again, we'll get to that momentarily first. Pure Talk has you covered for the holidays with a free Moto G 5G phone. No gimmicks, no trade-in necessary. Just sign up for Pure Talk's, unlimited talk, unlimited text, 15 gigs of data. you can get all of that for just 35 bucks. You'll get the Moto G 5G phone for free. But here's the deal, you need to move fast because these phones are almost gone. So if your current phone is on life support, upgrade for free with Pure Talk, the new Moto G 5G, both a two-Day Battery life, an exceptional quad pixel camera, and a whole lot more. Pure Talk. It gives you America's most dependable 5G network at half the price. So make the switch today. Just go to Pure Talk dot com slash Shapiro. Get this exclusive offer. Select the plan that's right for your family. Remember Pure Talk gives you America's Most Dependable 5G network at half the price. So make that switch today. That's Pure Talk dot com slash Shapiro. You can claim your free Moto G 5G phone with a qualifying plan. Again, that's Pure Talk dot com slash Shapiro. Pure Talk is simply Smarter Wireless. I'm using Pure Talk for like a couple years at this point. They're great. Their coverage is excellent. If it's good enough for me, it's certainly good enough for you as well. Check them out right now. Pure Talk dot com slash SHAPIRO. That's Pure Talk dot com slash SHAPIRO. Okay, now speaking of the latest in Israel. So Anthony Blinken, who's the Secretary of State, has traveled over to Israel in attempt to extend this ceasefire here he was yesterday explaining that he'd like to see the pause that has been created by negotiations between Israel and Hamas via Qatar. They, they wanna see that extended, so more hostages are released. The, the big question here is whether this is a prelude to Western pressure for Israel to end its offensive against Hamas completely, which is insane as we'll talk about momentarily. Here is blinking. Yesterday We'd like to see the pause extended because what it is enabled, first and foremost is hostages being released. It's also enabled us to, to serve humanitarian assistance into the people of Gaza who so desperately need it. Okay, so yeah, again, the, the idea here is, is that just a pause does, does the United States suddenly expect it? Israel is going to stop what it's doing. Israel cannot stop what it's doing. And in fact, they came very close to ending the ceasefire last night because Hamas literally waited until five minutes before the deadline to come up with new hostages. And what, what Hamas is doing right now is so unbelievably evil. It, it's as evil as what they did on October 7th. It's just in slow motion. So on October 7th, they murdered 1200 people and they kidnapped another 240. And now they're separating families out. They're saying that some people are dead who are still alive. There's some pe they're saying some people who are alive are, are actually dead and, and meanwhile they're pursuing terror attacks. So literally this morning in Israel Israel time, there was a terror attack. It was in the, a major tr, highly trafficked street corner in Jerusalem at a bus stop. And you can see these are two brothers from East Jerusalem who identify with Hamas. Hamas took credit for this attack. They get out of their car and they just start mowing down a bunch of people who are at a bus stop. They ended up killing three people, including a pregnant 24-year-old woman. They were shot by people who are on the scene, reserves, who showed up with their guns, a a, a civilian who was off duty and who ended up shooting them. Three dead, six injured, supposedly this is in the middle of ACS fire. Kamas took full credit for this. Kamas says this is a good thing and yet Israel is supposed to keep going with some sort of pause to get the hostages out. I gotta say there is a moral question as to whether Israel should or can continue to do this sort of routine because again, what's happened to the hostages is horrible and evil and continues to be horrible and evil At the same time, is the life of a hostage any more valuable than the life of that 24-year-old pregnant woman who's just murdered on a straight corner in Jerusalem, which presumably would not have happened if Israel were continuing its military operations to defend a straight Hamas. Speaking of the treatment of the hostages, it's amazing to watch as world and international organizations pretend that the hostages were treated well in some way. Elon Levy, who's the spokesperson for the Israeli government, he says, no, the hostages were not in fact held in reasonable conditions. As the survivors of Hamas captivity return home over the last week, we're beginning to discover new chilling details about life as Hamas hostages. I'm of course not at liberty to share information from the official investigations, but the evidence that the families have been sharing with the media is chilling. The hostages were not held in reasonable conditions as some have cynically claimed. Our children were serially abused. Just like Hamas war recorded its own crimes against humanity. On October 7th, it continues to document its own atrocities. Releasing footage of crowds terrorizing the hostages in their final moments of captivity. Those scenes bringing to mind that scene from Game of Thrones and fans of the series will of course know which scene I'm talking about. Of course, the hostages were not held in reasonable condition. What else do you expect from, you know, a terrorist group? The simple fact of the matter is that the hostages were treated precisely as you would expect Hamas to treat the hostages. We'll get to that in just one second. First, I've got a holiday gift idea. It's sure to make you the hero of the season. 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Again. Genus Sell has sent a bunch of product down to our offices as well. Everybody is using it. You deserve to look and feel your best this holiday season. Go to genu sell.com/ Shapiro, get this incredible holiday discount. Every order today is instantly upgraded to free express shipping. That's genus sell.com/ Shapiro today. Again, genus sell.com/ Shapiro. So meanwhile, as we're discussing those who oppose Israel destroying Hamas, they continue to make a variety of arguments. Again, Israel's considering going back in, they're going to have to, the only question is when. And so there are a bunch of people predominantly on the left who are attempting to make the claim that Israel should stop. They're complaining that after Hamas, no one knows what comes next. That's a weird accusation 'cause pretty much everybody knows what comes next. And Israeli led reoccupation of the Gaza Strip, hopefully with some input from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE, to help fund this and to establish a peaceful regime that will eventually break the back of the PA and Hamas ossification efforts over the past four generations to indoctrinate literally 2 million people in the idea that the Jews must be destroyed, but the media pretend they don't understand. I gotta say the foe ignorance of members of the media is truly an amazing thing to watch. These are people who pretend that they know everything, but suddenly they turn into simple-minded village idiots when confronted with bare facts. So here's Chris Hayes of SNBC, picking up Rachel Maddow's glasses, putting them on and, and then playing the village idiotic. There's a question of what comes after people say Hamas war must be destroyed. Yes. Right? It's must, but then, okay, well then well then what? There's some who said maybe the Palestinian authority can, can be the governing entity. No, they can't. Okay. So I I know that you, you, you, you repost that they Can't because they're educated for hate, you know, but they're not, they're not Hamas educated. Right? They're not Hamas, but they are educated for hate. But then who, who? and they are paid for slay, so they can't who. Okay, so what we want to do first is to eliminate Hamas and then to have a buffer zone, okay? You know, in order to, to keep our villages safe. And then there should be like maybe international international allies from, you know, countries like Egypt, like the UAE that will come and manage their lives there for few years. We need to do, you know, deification, deification in order to, what does that mean? Deification? Yeah, deification. Yeah. Because right now the children from the age since they, since they're born from the age of two three, we saw it in the, in the kindergartens. We saw it in the school. They're being educated to slaughtered Jews. Okay? This is how they are being educated. With all due respect. With all due respect. Lemme just say this, whether that is true or not, It is true. You can't, it's, you can't argue on the facts. Okay? We saw it in their schools. There Are 10 So rockets in this schools, 10 or 15,000 people have died. There have been children who have died. This is not In dispute, we didn't start this law. I know you didn't. But my, my question to you is what I hear from you is not Joe Biden says we have to restart the two state solution. What I hear from you and what I hear from most of Israeli political leaders in the center, right in the coalition government is no Hamas war, no pa, right? Maybe an international coalition. And we will manage the occupation in perpetuity and we will settle the West Bank and that's it. And you'll have to deal with that, Okay? And you'll have to deal with it. Chris Hayes then goes on to suggest we're denying self-determination to these people. It's worth pointing out at this point that Chris Hayes's ridiculous assumption that self-determination is somehow owed to every single group regardless of the evils of their belief system is extraordinarily dangerous. Did ISIS deserve self-determination? How about Hezbollah? How about the white supremacists? Ha sees around every corner do they deserve self-determination? But in order to back ha's point, the left continues to push the idea that the Palestinian Arabs and the Gaza Strip and the West Bank are somehow magically a moderate group simply dominated by a few terror masters. I know there's a very flattering myth, the left, that the, the west particularly, we love to tell ourselves this myth, right? This is the, we will be greeted as liberators in Iraq myth. It's the same thing from the Bush administration. Here is the Pentagon spokesperson saying just that Of course the Israelis are taking into account innocent civilians. That's why again, in all of our calls that the secretary has with his counterpart Minster Gallant, we continue to urge of course for the protection of innocent civilians wherever they are in Gaza. And, and again, we have to remember Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people and they shouldn't. The Palestinian people deserve true leadership and, and again, Hamas war really should be rooted out from within Gaza. Okay? So the idea that they don't represent the Palestinian people is a lie. There's precisely zero evidence that Hamas does not represent the Palestinians. That like zero no evidence of that fact doesn't mean they're all terrorists. It means they do support a terrorist group, period. They elected Hamas and then by every available poll since then, they support Hamas, including in the West Bank where Kamas is not governed. So for all the people who are saying you can't trust the poll results in Gaza, fine. Don't trust those poll results. Trust the poll results in the West Bank where the Palestinian authority is the governing entity. Then there's the complaint that the left is lodging. That Israel must stop its campaign against Kamas in order to minimize civilian casualties. As we've repeatedly discussed, Israel tries to do that, but to focus on this question gives total leverage to Hamas because Hamas doesn't care at all like they care. Zero about that topic. Finally, the left complains that international institutions are being hampered in their efforts to help. Well let's talk a little bit about these. So-called international institutions, they are a sick joke. They are broken. They're broken because there is no such thing as an international community. There can be no community with tyrannical hellholes and people who support terrorism. And yet apparently so long as you say the magic words international humanitarian institution, everybody is supposed to bow and scrape before you as though you are in fact a good-hearted saint doing wondrous healing work More often than that, more often than not, the term international humanitarian organization is a tremendous lie. Take for example, the United Nations, the utter disgrace that is the UN is nothing new. Of course, the UN came into being in the aftermath of World War II when the west was seeking to end all conflict via international diplomacy as literally all of history since that has shown that plan was a giant failure. It turns out the best guarantor of international safety and security is a strong hegemonic western power, namely the United States. Whenever the UN has been entrusted to guarantee safety and security, it has failed in Korea, in Rwanda, in Yugoslavia, in the Sinai Desert in Lebanon, literally everywhere. Whenever UN peacekeepers are put in a place and Then it, tyrannical regime demands, they be removed. They just leave. Un agencies have sometimes been helpful in distributing aid, but just as often they've stolen that aid or worked on behalf of nefarious powers. Nowhere has all of this been truer than in the Gaza Strip. We'll get to that in just one second. First, the holidays are here. The last thing you need during this busy time of yours to miss out on a great night's sleep. This is why my team has been using Beam's Dream Powder Beam's Dream Powder contains a powerful all natural blend of ingredients, including magnesium hanin. It's not just your one run of the mill sleep aid, it's concoction carefully crafted to help you slip into the sweet embrace of rest without the grogginess that often accompanies other sleep remedies. Sleep is the foundation of our mental and physical health. You must have a consistent nighttime routine to function at your best. 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They're again claiming that international agencies must be allowed to do their work. These international agencies are by and large garbage and or tools of Hamas the UN Relief and Works agency. for example, the only agency in the UN dedicated to one specific group of people, Palestinian Arab refugees, and I put refugees in quotes there because we are now talking about the great grandchildren of people who moved like three miles down the road into the Gaza Strip, has funneled billions of dollars to Palestinians, including terror groups. In fact, since 1994, the United States has sent over $10 billion to the Palestinians. The United States supplies nearly 30% of the UN RWA budget. Historically, the UN RWA workforce, it consists of tens of thousands of Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip, including many terrorists and terrorist supporters. As we've talked about on the show, when the Trump administration cut aid to the UN RWA, the State Department said quote, the fundamental business model and fiscal practices that have marked U-N-R-W-A for years tied to UN RWAs endlessly and exponentially expanding community of entitled beneficiaries is simply unsustainable and has been in crisis mode for many years. The Biden administration quickly restored aid to the U-N-R-W-A, but now the U-N-R-W-A is giving Western powers heartburn. Again, that's because of reports that one of the child hostages held by Hamas was actually being held by A-U-N-R-W-A teacher barely given any food and no medicine. By the way, that would be the kind of person teaching at the schools that Chris Hayes denies are actually teaching at the schools. When I yell at Cade in that clip tells Chris Hayes that people are being indoctrinated by teachers from the UN RWA and he says, well, even if that's literally one of those teachers was holding a hostage, a child hostage in his attic. No wonder the esta Foreign affair committees, Frank Mueller Rosett in Germany actually called on the German government to cut aid to the UN RWA. And it's not just the UN RWA, that's the problem. Here is Sarah Hendricks, deputy executive Director for UN Women. That's a western organization that has not bothered to condemn Hamas' mass rape of Israeli women. On October 7th, here she was being questioned by Bana Gaga of CNN. Is there a reason though, Sarah, that you can't specifically call out Hamas war and the mounting evidence now over seven weeks that Israeli investigators have collected that we've shown our viewers about the atrocities they committed specifically on October 7th because I I think that's the crux of the issue here. It's not just condemning sexual violence against women and in any war in general. It's specifically what occurred on October 7th perpetrated by Hamas war. Indeed, you and women always supports impartial independent investigations into any serious allegations of gender-based or sexual violence. And within the UN family, these investigations are led by the Office of the High Commissioner of Human Rights. And just to provide a little bit of context in terms of UN Women's Rule, UN women specifically provides and has extensive knowledge on gender-based violence and provides and supports investigations as we do with all UN investigations. So as gimme be a no on condemning Hamas, that is an awful lot of word salad to avoid condemning Hamas. But what else would you expect from our humanitarian organizations? Take as another example, the International Red Cross, because the International Committee of the Red Cross requires the help of groups like Hamas to even work in the Gaza Strip, they end up as tools of Hamas. The ICRC has spent little or no time condemning Hamas for its October 7th atrocities. Instead, they focused on Israel's action in Gaza. They ICRC also failed to report the facts, which they knew about Israeli hostages being held at GA and hospitals even as the international media lied that those hospitals were civilian sites. Meanwhile, the ICRC has not fulfilled one of the key components of Israel's original hostage deal. With Hamas verification of life and health of the hostages being held by Hamas, that failure has had particularly tragic consequences. In the case of the BBOs family, they were kidnapped from a village called near Oz. Father den mother Sheri, four-year old Ariel and 10 month old fear were taken to Gaza. Here's the footage of them being abducted. You can see there's the mom carrying these two redheaded kids as Kamas kidnapped them. They're physically healthy, they were obviously healthy when taken, but nobody knows if they are alive. Earlier this week it was reported that the family was traded to the popular front for the liberation of Palestine, another terrorist group by Hamas. And then yesterday Hamas claimed the family had been killed by Israeli bombs. So where is the ICRC to testify to any of this? Deny it. Verify. They're absolutely missing. Instead, the ICRC, the wonderful humanitarian organization has become a shuttle service for Israeli hostages, helping Hamas release the hostages as gazen crowds cheer in blood thirsty fashion. There's more of that last night. Don't worry folks. The Palestinian Arab population, they hate Hamas, which is why they're literally jeering, mocking, cheering, filming the release of Israeli hostages, mostly women and children. These are wonderful moderates who deserve self-determination. Obviously the world will be a better place if they had a state. The international humanitarian institutions have be clowned themselves in the current Israel Hamas war, but they were a suspect long before that. It's just that radical Muslims in the left-wing press have laundered lies into public view by adding the imprimatur of the magical international community to corrupt institutions riddled with political radicals and corrupt functionaries. In just one second, I'm gonna talk about international institutions and international politics because a lot of what you are seeing today in the obits about Henry Kissinger is predicated on people's views about particularly this subject. So last night, Henry Kissinger died who's a hundred years old. I'd met him very briefly once, and I had interviewed him once. It didn't end up being taped. He is a fascinating character, obviously very checkered character. A lot of the decisions he made were extremely cold ey, extremely cold ey. A lot of people ranging from Anthony Bourdain to Christopher Hitchens condemned him as a war criminal for his decision making during the Nixon administration with regards to, for example, the Indonesian invasion of East Timor or the American intervention on behalf of Pinoche in Chile in 1973 by or or the bombing of Cambodia. By the same token, how you view Kissinger is very much a reflection of how you view international politics as a whole. And the reason that this is broken down into sort of a left right divide, despite the fact that Kissinger's history was very checkered in terms of left right decision making. So for example, the right doesn't like the fact that Kissinger quote unquote opened China. It was Kissinger who really led to the opening of China at the time. It was a real politic decision because he saw a gap emerging between China and Russia and he was attempting to exploit that gap by wooing China away from Russia, right? That was the goal. The goal was Woo China away from Russia, remove them as a source of trade and resources for Russia and you'll end up weakening the Russian regime, which is why the the trip to China was initiated with Nixon speaking with Mao. So in retrospect, we can say, and I would say that's a bad mistake at the time, it's a choice between two bad decisions and this was the sort of guiding light of Kissinger's Foreign policy. So Henry Kissinger for, for those who don't know much about Kissinger himself, he was a massive celebrity in the 1970s. He was a Secretary of State during the Nixon and and Gerald Ford administrations. According to the Wall Street Journal, no US Secretary of State ever achieved such celebrity while in office as Henry Kissinger. A 1974 Newsweek cover depicted him as Super KA comic book Hero Time called him the world's most indispensable man. Gallup ranked him America's most admired man. A 1972 Life Magazine spread pictured him with a bevy of actresses including Jill St. John. Yet no former Secretary of State has been more vehemently criticized of the many anti Kissinger books. The most influential was Christopher Hitchen's, the trial of Henry Kissinger, which explicitly accused Kissinger of responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity in Indochina, Chile, Argentina, Cyprus, East Timor, and several other places. Although the book mentioned only one other supposed crime scene Bangladesh and mentioned the Soviet Union only three times. This is Neil Ferguson who wrote a biography of Henry Kissinger talking about Henry Kissinger. He said those accusations stuck like mud. Late in life, Kissinger regularly faced protests at his public appearances, yet they're at odds with the historical record. And Ferguson points out that Kissinger was both the White House National Security Advisor and the Secretary of State. His accomplishments included the negotiation of the first strategic arms limitation treaty, the A BM treaty with the Soviet Union, the opening to China, the ceasefire in the Yom Kippur War in 1973, the end of us involvement in the Vietnam War, for which both he and North Vietnamese counterpart lead were awarded the 1973 Nobel Peace Prize. But here is the problem, okay? If you see Foreign policy as a family of nations, a lot of good-hearted people out there, they all just want the same thing, but they're having different ways of achieving that, then hardcore Foreign policy looks nasty to you because the easiest thing is just wash your hands of everything. Oh, if the United States just goes hands off, why? Why were we even involved in these places? Why didn't from the right? What you hear, and I think this critique is correct of Henry Kissinger, is that Henry Kissinger was so focused on the sort of metro Nikki and balance of power that he forgot that the United States is a global hegemon. And from the left, what you hear of Henry Kissinger is he was engaged in the dirty game of politics and that meant that the United States was constantly engaged in dirty little Wars all around the world we shouldn't have been engaged in. And the reality is somewhere in between. The reason that the left thinks that is because the left believes that if a communist regime were to arise in Latin America with the beha, with the help of the Soviet Union, that's not a bad thing. I think a Marxist regime in Latin America or many Marxist regimes in Latin America, what's the big deal? Why is that a problem? Why does it matter if Vietnam turns communist? Why does it matter if Cambodian laws turn communist? Why does it matter if you Seymour terms communist? Why does any of that matter? First of all, that demonstrates a complete misreading of how Foreign policy works. Foreign policy is a dirty, terrible business in which if I, as I say, Kissinger had one central Foreign policy message, his overriding message was avoid the worst outcome, which means sometimes embracing the second worst outcome. If you read any of his books, this was Kissinger's main thing was avoid the worst outcome. This, by the way, was his recommendation in Ukraine. So when it came to Ukraine during this war that is currently ongoing, very early on he suggested that there should be an off ramp in Ukraine because everybody knew that Ukraine was not gonna take the Don Basar Crimea in which Ukraine was given security guarantees did not formally tornado, but was given enough armaments to defend itself against a predatory Russian invasion. And Russia was basically given dominion over the territories. It was very likely to hold anyway. And this pleased no one in the early days of the war And. it turns out it was rather presant because what he was attempting to avoid was a straight up face-to-face confrontation between NATO and Russia. That's what he was attempting to avoid and he knew there weren't, there weren't the stones for it in the West and so realize what is happening on the ground and adjust to it. So when people rip on Kissinger, there are two rips. One is that he misread particular situations, he should have done things differently. All of that's legitimate. The second rip, which is just wrong, is the rip that you don't have to make these sort of considerations when you make American Foreign policy that American Foreign policy is either the most sinful Foreign policy on planet Earth. Every ill can be ascribed to it. You see this in the critique of Kissinger with regard to Cambodia and Laos for example, right? The the basic idea that is promoted by the left with Cambodia is that Kissinger when he took over as Secretary of State in the aftermath of LBJ completely botching the Vietnam War. When he came in, he said, we need to start bombing the communist supply lines in Cambodia. And he authorized mass huge bombing raids into Cambodia without the approval of Congress And, it can talk about whether it needed congressional approval and all the rest. That's fine. But as a Foreign policy matter did bombing Cambodia, cause for example the left now claims that that caused the rise of pole pott in Cambodia, that Kamir Rouge would never have happened if we had not bombed Cambodia. That assumes that there's no such thing as agency in the world. It's a lie. It's not true. The minute the United States got out of Vietnam, Cambodia failed the pole pod. So again, it's a bunch of considerations. This is the the overriding message of Kissinger's life and it's the thing we should take away from it. While still quibbling or arguing or strenuously hating many of his Foreign policy decisions, Foreign policy is a dangerous and dirty business. It is not possible to engage in Foreign policy and keep your hands totally clean. That is not something that you can do because there are in fact nefarious powers who hate you and who wish the worst for you and who will have an impact on your life. Whether you're talking about them controlling choke points and international trades we've talked about on the show from the Straits of Horror Movies to the Straits of Taiwan, or whether you're talking about active military operations against the United States in far from places, and yes indeed at home, you have to recognize that the world is a complex place that requires complex choices. And very often those choices are the choices of the least bad scenario and having to actually engage with the second worst scenario. And that really is the story of Henry Kissinger's Foreign policy. Again, I I agree with many of the critiques from the right that sometimes who's engaging in the second worst scenario when say like a better scenario was available. And again, that's a good critique. What I don't agree with is the total isolationist or libertarian position, which is that America should go hands off in the world and somehow the world will be a better place for it. That's a very difficult position to maintain in the in face of the fact that again, there are countries all over the world that hate us, that do not agree with our values that seek to maximize their own power at the expense of the American people. There's this weird notion that is taken root on the right and the left. It's this horseshoe theory thing, which is that everybody who acts badly in the world was somehow driven to it by the United States. This is why you're seeing the left embrace tiktoks of Osama bin Laden circa 2002 because oh, he would never have done that if we hadn't been so mean in Saudi Arabia. Yeah, sure, you see the right to do the same thing with regard to Russia never would've invaded Ukraine if it had not been for our attempts to extend helping hand to, to Ukraine and make overtures tornado. Or maybe Russia has a long history under Vladimir Putin of territorial invasions of neighboring countries. Maybe it turns out that other people except for the West, have agency. And once you realize other people except for the West have agency, it changes your decision making dramatically. This is true all over the world. The fundamental Foreign policy mistake is the assumption that only the West has agency, this sort of ethno centricity. This political arrogance leads to ironically more death than a humility that acknowledges that other people have interests adverse to our own and that you have to respect those interests even if that means fighting those interests. Okay, in just one second, we'll get to the 2024 campaign, which again, this is gonna be the weirdest campaign in American history. First, Balance Of Nature fruits and veggies are a great way to make sure you're getting essential nutritional ingredients every single day. Balance Of Nature uses an advanced cold vacuum process that encapsulates fruits and veggies into whole food supplements without sacrificing their natural antioxidants. The capsules are completely void of additives, fillers, extracts, synthetics, pesticides, or added sugar. The only thing in balance of nature's fruit and veggie capsules are, while you know the fruits and the veggies, there's never been an easier way to make sure that you are getting daily dose of fruits and veggies. Balance Of Nature sent a bunch of fruit and veggie capsules down to the studio for my team to try. Everybody feels brighter, healthier, more energetic. I love Balance Of Nature because it helps make my busy schedule significantly more manageable. Producer Zach brought his Balance Of Nature fruits and veggies on the road. I'm actually gonna need to steal some from him after the show because I gotta be honest with you, didn't get enough sleep last night. Go to Balance Of Nature dot com, use promo code Shapiro for 35% off your first order as a preferred customer. That's Balance Of Nature dot com promo code Shapiro. Get 35% off your first preferred order. Also, lady Ballers, it's almost here. It's the most triggering comedy of the decade for sure. I saw it last night. I mean, yes, people are going to be triggered. It is streaming exclusively on DailyWire Plus tomorrow night at 8:00 PM Eastern, you've heard us talking about the movie all week and now I get to tell you even more because I actually saw the movie, believe it or not, as an executive producer on the film. I had not seen the movie until last night and it is hilarious. I gotta say special props to Tyler special, special props to the crane boys, David Cohen I mean there. There is so much that is very funny in this movie and most of all it is the movie that Hollywood should have been making but they couldn't. And So we did. We are making jokes about a thing that needs to be mocked and that is the idea that boys can be girls and girls can be boys. It's a stupid idea, requires jokes and that's what we're doing. Lady Ballers premiers tomorrow night exclusively at DailyWire Plus at 8:00 PM Eastern. Well, meanwhile, the 2024 election continues a pace right now in the real clear politics average Donald Trump is up about two points. There are two recent polls that have Biden backup a couple of points, but he's never above 44, 40 3% in these polls. And in fact, in the polls where he's at 49 or 47 or 46, Trump is up on him in those polls. So in other words, Joe Biden is stuck, his ceiling is like 44, 40 5%. And when people are forced to the decision, Matt, right now they're breaking in favor of Trump. in fact, what the polls are showing is not right now actually increase or decrease support for Biden. Actually over the course of the last couple of months, his support is slightly up Biden in these polls. The, the problem for him is that all the independents are breaking in favor of Trump. Why is that happening? It's because, again, all the focus is on Joe Biden. And so the question is gonna be, can Donald Trump keep the focus on Joe Biden as this election moves forward? In order for that to happen, Trump cannot run a revenge campaign. He cannot, his campaign can be a political, a policy revenge campaign. He can say, listen, here are my policies, Joe Biden got rid of all of them and the world is now on fire. I closed the border, Joe Biden opened the border. I was in negotiating piece in the Middle East. Joe Biden has blown up all of that by legitimizing the Houthis in Yemen by funding Iran, by restoring aid to the Palestinians. He can say all of that. He can say that the economy was going great guns before Covid and then even in the middle of Covid, the economy was recovering at a steeper pace than it did subsequently, under Joe Biden, Joe Biden has broken all of the economic levers, which is why right now the economy is running extremely hot, but also we are in danger of continued baked in inflation, right? He can say all those things that that would be a great campaign making that campaign about were you better off in 2019 or are you better off in 2024? That is a good winning campaign for Donald Trump. You know what's not a great winning campaign for Donald Trump? I'm coming in, I'm gonna break all the people who came after me. That is not something I think the American people are up for. Again, because the best of Donald Trump always and forever was the version of Donald Trump who said, I am your tool. You wield me in order to achieve certain objectives. I am the shield for you. But when he starts to make it about the voters being a shield for him, people tend to object to that. They don't want to buy into his personal issues, even if they think like I do, that many of those issues are being created by the left and are false. If the answer to to Donald Trump is being unjustly persecuted is election, I don't buy that. I think the the answer to Donald Trump, Trump being unjustly persecuted is fund his legal defense fund. But again, he has an independent case to make. That is way better than that. Which is why again, he's been soaring in the polls. The less you see of him, you have not seen him, he's been gone. All the focus has been on Joe Biden. It needs to stay that way, which is why I think it's particularly foolish for Donald Trump to go out there and start warning people about the weaponization of the DOJ. So Trump put out a, a giant statement on truth social. Yesterday he said, I'm 12 points up on crooked Joe Biden. I Dunno what poll he's looking at where he is. 12 points up on on I I. Listen, I wish, I wish he's not, there are no polls where he is up 12 points on Biden, but he's got the Justice Department and others suing me wherever and whenever possible weaponization it's called. And maybe that can make a difference. This has never been done on the scale before, not in our country. It opens up a very big and dangerous Pandora's box. Joe Biden should stop his election interfering thugs before it's too late for him and the rest of the country. As the leader of the opposition party, I should not be forced to campaign from inside a courthouse, which is very doable but not very democratic or convenient. This is where they want me to spend my time and money. It is not the way our system is supposed to work. If they filed these and then he just goes on along these lines. Again, I don't think he's wrong about any of this. I just don't see why that should be the centerpiece of the campaign. It can certainly be a part of the campaign him saying, listen, Joe Biden's a very bad president. He's going to lose. That's the reason he's targeting me. But back to why Joe Biden is a bad president, that is totally worthwhile. But if his campaign is in fact about his sort sort of personal venge taking I I think that's gonna be a problem for him, that's a thought expressed by his, by the way, erstwhile Ally, Kevin McCarthy, former speaker of the house, he said this yesterday, he said, if Trump's campaign is about revenge, he'll lose I. I. Don't think that's wrong. And like our hate McCarthy, this is not bad political analysis. I'm trying to square in my brain how you have those feelings about him at that time and say, I think he would be a great president today. I didn't say a great president. I said he'd be a better president than what we're having. I said, the country would be in a better place if his campaign is about renew, rebuild, and restore, he'll win. If it's about revenge, he'll lose. That's the only person that's gonna determine not, that is not his campaign ad is him. Okay? And and he's right about that. McCarthy is right about that, which is why Trump needs to be careful. Now I will say Trump did something absolutely kind of ridiculous. That is worth noting yesterday because frankly, if any other candidate did this like Trump, I understand that Trump has a halt pass from the entire Republican party for pretty much anything he does at this point because it's all baked into the cake at this point. But Donald Trump did in fact endorse BLM yesterday, which is like an insane thing to do. So. what happened is that there's a person named Mark Fisher who built himself as a co-founder of BLM in Rhode Island. He said he was very honored to have his and M's support. BLM is a garbage organization. You don't want BBL M'S support. I mean, I understand again that everything Trump says has to be taken not just with a a grain of salt, but like a giant iceberg of salt, like a giant salt block from the Dead Sea. I get it. But can we just point out that B Lmm is a horrifying organization? It's a giant grift. Not only is it a giant grift, it's a giant anti-Semitic grift and a giant anti-white grift. And it's really, really bad. So I, you know the, this is in terms of its record, by the way, this is the part of his record. I think that's the worst is the criminal justice reform kind of stuff. The idea that he's gonna jailbreak a bunch of people who are criminals. But in any case, if Donald Trump wants to win, he's going to have to focus in on the failures of Joe Biden, of which there are many. We'll get to that in just one second. First, the October 15th tax deadline has already passed. I know many of you might be dreading the stress of filing those taxes. I know it's terrible every year. Filing your taxes can be a long, excruciating process. But if you fail to file, you'll start to pile penalties on your tax debt, which is why you need to check out Tax Network USA, the team at Tax Network, USA has a track record of success. They've reduced tax debts for numerous clients totaling over a billion dollars. Whether you're looking at a 10,000 or $1 million tax debt that can help you with a settlement, it doesn't matter if you haven't filed in a year, five years, even a whole decade tax network, USA is equipped to secure the best settlement for you. Their expert attorneys and tax professionals can help resolve all tax cases no matter how they started. Don't let tax debt control your life any longer. Take the first step toward resolving your tax issues by visiting Tax Network USA dot com slash SHAPIRO. That's Tax Network USA dot com slash SHAPIRO. Again, when you fall behind on your tax debts, it can eat your life. I mean like for years, for decades. You need to get that solved today. If you have tax issues, visit Tax Network USA dot com slash Shapiro and get started resolving that issue today. That's Tax Network USA dot com slash Shapiro today. Well, there is a rule in presidential politics, particularly campaign politics, that when something goes wrong, sort of everything goes wrong. My friend John Po Hortz over the Commentary Magazine podcast, he's the editor of Commentary Magazine who wrote a book in the early 1990s about the Bush doomed reelect effort in 19 91, 19 92. And one of his basic thesis was that when a campaign is failing, everything starts to go wrong all at once. And that seems to be happening to Joe Biden right now. Whether it's him just wandering around on stage as a comedian, Shane Gillis puts it like a, like a Roomba when he's sort of confused at the end of his speeches just bumping into things or whether it's what happened last night. So the Biden Christmas tree just fell over. They're trying to put it up And, it fell over again. These sorts of images, they don't mean anything on their own, but they do when there's a generalized sort of feeling of instability. And when the Christmas tree represents the actual president of the United States And, it falls over again. Is he in, is he in charge of the weather? No. The Jews are in charge of the weather, as we all know. But when, when it falls over, everybody is immediately flashing to Joe Biden falling up the stairs, right? I mean, here, here's what it looked like last night. And you put the screws like Uncle fester on his head and you make sure it's equal and you stand that tree up and you should be able to walk out of that room and no, it won't fall down. Sadly, no one listened to me yesterday, down goes the Frazier fur. Well, he's okay. Brian I I. Don't know that you've read all the details about the national Christmas tree, which blew over in a a We'll make excuses. Well, here's the thing. They didn't put it in a stand. They planted it. That's big problems. The problem on the, don't listen to Brian on the Just there. They're trying to pull it back up again. And it. It's are these major things, they're not major things, obviously they're silly things, but when all the silly things seem to fall in one direction, that is a bad sign for the incumbent president of the United States. Like Jimmy's Carter being attacked while he was on a boat in 1979 by a rabbit, like a rab, like a rabbit rabbit. It was, it was an actual thing that happened apparently. Well, here's the thing. It's not just that Joe Biden thingss are going wrong for him. It's that of course things are going wrong for him because he is not good at the president thing. According to Axios. Evidence is stacking up showing Americans are saving less and drawing down their existing savings cushions. Of course they are because the more you save an inflationary economy, less your money is worth. I put a hundred bucks in the bank today and then my dollar is worth 50% of what it was worth. Six months from now I've lost money by keeping my money parked. Instead, you're better off buying things. This is why you're seeing an accelerating rate of growth. So Q3 showed a 5.2% increase in GDP. That sounds amazing, right? That's great except that what's actually happening is everybody is pre-buying all the materials for Q4 in anticipation of the fact the prices are probably gonna continue to rise as we hit the holidays. According to Axios, the share of adults who say they can cover six months of expenses using their savings is considerably lower than it was last year. According to polling from Morning Consult, the share that simply doesn't know how long their savings will carry them has grown from about 15.5% in July, 2022 to 21%. The spending right now is booing the economy, but it's likely to crash on the other end and nobody's gonna have savings 'cause they already spent their savings because of the inflation. So that is really bad news. Again, the the economic news here is so mixed. This is why people are feeling on tenor hooks, inflation eats everything. And Joe Biden has not been able to tame inflation in such a way that people feel secure in the economy. Now all the financial experts are expecting that the Federal Reserve is gonna actually decrease the interest rates in the near future, which of course there are a lot of people are like, wait, isn't inflation still running hot right now? And the answer is yes, it is still running hot right now. And if you decrease those inflation, the those interest rates, then presumably you are going to get new spending, new investment, and all of the rest of it. The bond markets jumped at this obviously because your bond is worth more now than it was yesterday if the interest rates start to start to drop. With that said, is any of this good news for Joe Biden's economy? Again, they, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place on the actual policy. Meanwhile, the Republicans are starting to go after Joe Biden again on the impeachment inquiry. Republicans are apparently considering holding an official house vote next month to authorize the impeachment inquiry into Biden. McCarthy initiated it when he was speaker of the house without an actual vote, because he didn't think he had the votes. Now, GOP leaders are talking about the possibility of a vote during a closed door meeting with Republican lawmakers. Republican leaders have long said a vote on the impeachment investigation was unnecessary. They're now reconsidering because White House lawyers are using the lack of a formal house authorization to argue that the investigation lacks constitutional legitimacy. The problem, of course, is that it's not clear they've got the votes for that. That's, I I've yet to see the evidence that Mike Johnson is like significantly better at whipping votes than, than Kevin McCarthy was. McCarthy was pretty good at that. He was pretty good at counting the heads. Johnson may be good at it, we just don't know as of yet. No matter the the impeachment inquiry on top of Joe Biden's failing presidency is not going to help him. It isn't and, and the White House doesn't have a great rebuttal to it. Here's Karine Jean-Pierre yesterday trying to go after Republicans for pursuing the impeachment inquiry House Republicans should, should really focus on American families instead of the President's family. That's what Americans wanna see, That that's not gonna, that, that's not gonna cut it. Nobody buys the focus on American families, not on Joe Biden's family. First of all, Joe Biden's family is an American family and a rather key American family. I will say again, I think that that Hunter Biden's new tactic is actually somewhat intelligent calling on the house GOP to open up the meetings. I I think he's actually pretty smart because it's basically calling their bluff. He's, he's saying, listen, whatever you have to come after me about, let's do this all in front of, in front of everybody. The house has denied that request. James Comer, the head of House oversight committee, he said Our lawfully issued subpoena to Hunter Biden requires him to appear for a deposition on December 13th. We expect full cooperation with our subpoena for a deposition. We also agree Hunter Biden should have the opportunity to testify in a public setting at a future date. Typically, house panels insist on a private deposition before allowing the public appearance. The January 6th select committee denied several requests to testify publicly, including one from Rudy Giuliani. Jim Jordan for his part said, sure, we'd love to have Hunter in for an open hearing. First we need to have him testify behind closed doors, So, we can ask him all the questions we wanna ask him. And those facts are confirmed by some of the evidence we've uncovered already. Already this 10 23 form where the confidential human source told the FBI And, it was recorded in this form that those are the key facts, and now it's important. We got a lot of those key facts. When we interviewed one of Hunter Biden's business partners, Mr. Archer, it's important we talk to the others. We need to talk to Eric Sch Sheerman, we need to talk to Rob Walker, we need to talk to Tony Bobinski. And we are in conversations with their lawyers and we think there's gonna happen and we need to talk to Jim Biden, who was also in business with Hunter Biden. Those things need to happen. And then as the chairman just said, as Chairman Comer just said, we will have Hunter Biden in a deposition. And frankly, I think in a, in an open hearing, I think that would be, that would be great. That's what needs to happen. So the American people get the facts, get the truth. Okay, so again, Republicans are gonna keep pushing here. None of it is going to be particularly good for Joe Biden. Alrighty, in just a second, we're gonna get to the, the dumbest excuse for the American National debt that I've seen recently. If you're not a member, become a member. Use Coach Shapiro checkout for two months free on all annual plans. Click that link in the description and join us Looking for some heart healthy energy. 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ep musk right kill dei fight antisemitism publish rss feed m dog chomp sneaker busy tune toss em bena bone right usa beone chew toy burst s slobber worthy flavor like real bacon dog not thumb em paw friendly good chew go use discount code dog thirtybeonecom bone site s dog everythingbeonecom tennis shoe thank show s sponsor expressvpn time stand big tech protect datum expressvpn dot com slash ben yesterday send majority leader chuck schumer new york take floor senate decry antisemitism schumer amazing source particular topic give consistent support middle east policy antisemitic president modern american history barack obama nonetheless speak threat antisemitism rare moment quasi honesty actually mention problem antisemitism liberal here feel compel speak m highest ranking jewish elect official america fact highest ranking jewish elect official american history notice significant disparity jewish people regard rise antisemitism nonjewish friend regard antisemite take advantage propalestinian movement esti espouse hatred bigotry jewish people dangerous behavior friend fellow citizen particularly young people yearn justice unknowingly aid abet cause note language people hijack propalestinian movement hijack young people goodhearted not know schumer actually explain phrase river sea genocidal destroy jews actually ignorance plenty people schumer actually say chant phrase quote hate jewish people support well future palestinians course lie particularly egregious lie schumer zero antisemite rashida lib han omar inside caucus example people night chae river sea new york city attempt stop lighting christmas tree rockefeller center night look like goodhearted slightly misinformed people people attack police officer right outside rockefeller center not worry accord chuck schumer passionate propalestinian cause antisemitic radical way ignorant know liberal bad guy accord chuck schumer watch precisely mentality create world leftist ideology schumer know lie recognize root left wing antisemitism destroy progressive ideology wholesale leftist ideology base matrix oppressor versus oppress give situation powerless oppress powerful oppressor oppressor oppress matrix map directly antisemitic conspiracy theory jewish power jews pseudo white jews financially israel disproportionately successful unsuccessful region world oppressor oppress matrix simply not fit jews actually victimize widespread jew hatred middle east abroad successful left keep push lie s true antidefamation league poll yesterday hillel international college group ask college student diversity equity inclusion cover antijewish prejudice diversity equity inclusion dei rubric left push idea unequal group outcome result systemic discrimination math jews beneficiary systemic discrimination course disproportionately successful dei simply include jews de basic logic forbid dei oppose meritocracy oppose performance oppose success nonetheless jewish student nonjewish college student say jews include dei training jews include oppressor oppress matrix oppressed course student exactly premise question deeply flawed answer possible jews not include dei discriminate jews violate suppose basis dei include jews explode entire dei superstructure dei base idea oppressor versus oppress jews include oppressed successful student say expect sure jews include victim class recognize central truth dei scam victimhood inherently connect level success powerless evil powerful good powerless actually victimizer powerful victim not fight antisemitism dei increase antisemitism dei entire framework conspiracy theory way truly fight antisemitism recognize bible say deuteronomy quote shall partial poor defer great righteousness shall judge neighbor s thing chuck schumer adl violate ideology instead people left pretend true antisemitism not lie oppressor oppress matrix people like elon musk ll target specifically not like dei ll claim dei way fight antisemitism elon musk fight dei mean s bad ll slander antisemite go israel express solidarity family murder jews ll try activate advertiser pull money twitter supposedly elon musk root antisemitic evil elon musk credit fight here clip yesterday elon musk absolute classic ask advertiser cancel not like politic andrew ross sorkin deal book new york times apology tour say online criticism advertiser leave talk bob igar today hope stop hope not advertise not want advertise mean somebodys go to try blackmail advertising blackmail money clear hope hey bob hey bob reference bob iger s audience s head disney people push dei exact people seek boycott mosque exact people seek pussyfoot hamas feeling like right venn diagram group circle circle true threat jews israel west second late israel tenuous ceasefire break rock specifically kamas know murder jews momentarily pure talk cover holiday free moto g g phone gimmick tradein necessary sign pure talk unlimited talk unlimited text gig datum buck ll moto g g phone free here deal need fast phone go current phone life support upgrade free pure talk new moto g g twoday battery life exceptional quad pixel camera lot pure talk give america dependable g network half price switch today pure talk dot com slash shapiro exclusive offer select plan s right family remember pure talk give america dependable g network half price switch today s pure talk dot com slash shapiro claim free moto g g phone qualifying plan s pure talk dot com slash shapiro pure talk simply smart wireless m pure talk like couple year point great coverage excellent good certainly good check right pure talk dot com slash shapiro s pure talk dot com slash shapiro okay speak late israel anthony blinken s secretary state travel israel attempt extend ceasefire yesterday explain d like pause create negotiation israel hamas qatar wanna extend hostage release big question prelude western pressure israel end offensive hamas completely insane talk momentarily blink yesterday d like pause extend enable foremost hostage release enable serve humanitarian assistance people gaza desperately need okay yeah idea pause united states suddenly expect israel go stop israel stop fact come close end ceasefire night hamas literally wait minute deadline come new hostage hamas right unbelievably evil evil october slow motion october murder people kidnap separate family say people dead alive s pe say people alive actually dead pursue terror attack literally morning israel israel time terror attack major tr highly traffic street corner jerusalem bus stop brother east jerusalem identify hamas hamas take credit attack car start mow bunch people bus stop end kill people include pregnant woman shoot people scene reserve show gun civilian duty end shoot dead injure supposedly middle acs fire kamas take credit kamas say good thing israel suppose go sort pause hostage get to moral question israel continue sort routine s happen hostage horrible evil continue horrible evil time life hostage valuable life pregnant woman s murder straight corner jerusalem presumably happen israel continue military operation defend straight hamas speak treatment hostage amazing watch world international organization pretend hostage treat way elon levy s spokesperson israeli government say hostage fact hold reasonable condition survivor hamas captivity return home week begin discover new chilling detail life hamas hostages m course liberty share information official investigation evidence family share medium chill hostage hold reasonable condition cynically claim child serially abuse like hamas war record crime humanity october continue document atrocity release footage crowd terrorize hostage final moment captivity scene bring mind scene game throne fan series course know scene m talk course hostage hold reasonable condition expect know terrorist group simple fact matter hostage treat precisely expect hama treat hostage second ve get holiday gift idea sure hero season know holiday bit hectic shopping cooking end list thing fear discover gift s thoughtful downright transformative talk gift genucel skincare know genus salt like year ago local radio los angeles give product wife mom keep long genus salt advertiser christmas genus cell popular package special discount listenersgenuscellcom slash shapiro treat love one absolute good skincare world troubling forehead wrinkle fine line skin redness yes sag jawline disappear directly eye genu sell popular collection genus cell promise immediate effect ll result hour guarantee money genus sell send bunch product office everybody deserve look feel good holiday season genu sellcom shapiro incredible holiday discount order today instantly upgrade free express shipping s genus sellcom shapiro today genus sellcom shapiro discuss oppose israel destroy hama continue variety argument israel consider go go question bunch people predominantly left attempt claim israel stop complain hamas know come s weird accusation cause pretty everybody know come israeli lead reoccupation gaza strip hopefully input egypt saudi arabia uae help fund establish peaceful regime eventually break pa hamas ossification effort past generation indoctrinate literally million people idea jews destroy medium pretend not understand get to foe ignorance member medium truly amazing thing watch people pretend know suddenly turn simpleminded village idiot confront bare fact here chris hayes snbc pick rachel maddow glass put play village idiotic s question come people hamas war destroy yes right okay s say maybe palestinian authority govern entity not okay know repost not educate hate know hama educate right hamas educate hate pay slay not okay want eliminate hama buffer zone okay know order village safe like maybe international international ally know country like egypt like uae come manage life year need know deification deification order mean deification yeah deification yeah right child age bear age see kindergarten see school educate slaughter jews okay educate respect respect lemme true true not not argue fact okay see school rocket school people die child die dispute not start law know not question hear joe biden say restart state solution hear hear israeli political leader center right coalition government hamas war pa right maybe international coalition manage occupation perpetuity settle west bank s ll deal okay ll deal chris hayes go suggest deny selfdetermination people worth point point chris hayess ridiculous assumption selfdetermination owe single group regardless evil belief system extraordinarily dangerous isis deserve selfdetermination hezbollah white supremacist ha see corner deserve selfdetermination order point left continue push idea palestinian arabs gaza strip west bank magically moderate group simply dominate terror master know s flattering myth left west particularly love tell myth right greet liberator iraq myth thing bush administration pentagon spokesperson say course israelis take account innocent civilian s call secretary counterpart minster gallant continue urge course protection innocent civilian gaza remember hamas represent palestinian people not palestinian people deserve true leadership hamas war root gaza okay idea not represent palestinian people lie s precisely zero evidence hamas represent palestinians like zero evidence fact not mean terrorist mean support terrorist group period elect hamas available poll support hama include west bank kamas govern people say not trust poll result gaza fine not trust poll result trust poll result west bank palestinian authority govern entity s complaint left lodge israel stop campaign kamas order minimize civilian casualty ve repeatedly discuss israel try focus question give total leverage hamas hamas not care like care zero topic finally left complain international institution hamper effort help let talk little bit socalled international institution sick joke break break thing international community community tyrannical hellhole people support terrorism apparently long magic word international humanitarian institution everybody suppose bow scrape fact goodhearte saint wondrous healing work term international humanitarian organization tremendous lie example united nations utter disgrace un new course un come aftermath world war ii west seek end conflict international diplomacy literally history show plan giant failure turn good guarantor international safety security strong hegemonic western power united states un entrust guarantee safety security fail korea rwanda yugoslavia sinai desert lebanon literally un peacekeeper place tyrannical regime demand remove leave un agency helpful distribute aid ve steal aid work behalf nefarious power true gaza strip second holiday thing need busy time miss great night sleep team beam dream powder beam dream powder contain powerful natural blend ingredient include magnesium hanin run mill sleep aid concoction carefully craft help slip sweet embrace rest grogginess accompany sleep remedy sleep foundation mental physical health consistent nighttime routine function good know m road right screwing sleep schedule need home sleep schedule need beam dream today listener special discount beam dream powder bestselle hot cocoa sleep add sugar delicious flavor like cinnamon cocoa chocolate peanut butter mint chip well sleep taste well mix beam dream hot water milk stir froth enjoy bedtime find battle bedtime blue shot weary self fact thank try beam bestselle dream powder advantage big sale year limited time shop beam dot com slash ben discount auto apply checkout code necessary s shop bea mcom ben okay world clamor israel stop operation gaza strip israel prepare claim international agency allow work international agency large garbage tool hamas un relief work agency example agency un dedicate specific group people palestinian arab refugee refugee quote talk great grandchild people move like mile road gaza strip funnel billion dollar palestinians include terror group fact united states send billion palestinians united states supply nearly un rwa budget historically un rwa workforce consist ten thousand palestinians live gaza strip include terrorist terrorist supporter ve talk trump administration cut aid un rwa state department say quote fundamental business model fiscal practice mark unrwa year tie un rwas endlessly exponentially expand community entitled beneficiary simply unsustainable crisis mode year biden administration quickly restore aid unrwa unrwa give western power heartburn s report child hostage hold hama actually hold aunrwa teacher barely give food medicine way kind person teach school chris hayes deny actually teach school yell cade clip tell chris hayes people indoctrinate teacher un rwa say s literally teacher hold hostage child hostage attic wonder esta foreign affair committee frank mueller rosett germany actually call german government cut aid un rwa un rwa s problem sarah hendrick deputy executive director un women s western organization bother condemn hamas mass rape israeli woman october question bana gaga cnn reason sarah not specifically hamas war mount evidence seven week israeli investigator collect ve show viewer atrocity commit specifically october think s crux issue condemn sexual violence woman war general specifically occur october perpetrate hamas war woman support impartial independent investigation allegation genderbased sexual violence un family investigation lead office high commissioner human right provide little bit context term un womens rule un woman specifically provide extensive knowledge genderbased violence provide support investigation un investigation gimme condemn hama awful lot word salad avoid condemn hamas expect humanitarian organization example international red cross international committee red cross require help group like hama work gaza strip end tool hamas icrc spend little time condemn hamas october atrocity instead focus israel action gaza icrc fail report fact know israeli hostage hold ga hospital international medium lie hospital civilian site icrc fulfil key component israel original hostage deal hamas verification life health hostage hold hamas failure particularly tragic consequence case bbo family kidnap village call near oz father den mother sheri fouryear old ariel month old fear take gaza here footage abduct s mom carry redheaded kid kamas kidnap physically healthy obviously healthy take know alive early week report family trade popular liberation palestine terrorist group hamas yesterday hamas claim family kill israeli bomb icrc testify deny verify absolutely miss instead icrc wonderful humanitarian organization shuttle service israeli hostage help hamas release hostage gazen crowd cheer blood thirsty fashion s night not worry folk palestinian arab population hate hamas literally jeer mock cheer film release israeli hostage woman child wonderful moderate deserve selfdetermination obviously world well place state international humanitarian institution clown current israel hamas war suspect long radical muslim leftwe press launder lie public view add imprimatur magical international community corrupt institution riddle political radical corrupt functionary second m go to talk international institution international politic lot see today obit henry kissinger predicate people view particularly subject night henry kissinger die s year old d meet briefly interview not end tape fascinating character obviously checkered character lot decision extremely cold ey extremely cold ey lot people range anthony bourdain christopher hitchen condemn war criminal decision making nixon administration regard example indonesian invasion east timor american intervention behalf pinoche chile bombing cambodia token view kissinger reflection view international politic reason break sort left right divide despite fact kissinger history checker term left right decision make example right not like fact kissinger quote unquote open china kissing lead opening china time real politic decision see gap emerge china russia attempt exploit gap woo china away russia right goal goal woo china away russia remove source trade resource russia ll end weaken russian regime trip china initiate nixon speak mao retrospect s bad mistake time choice bad decision sort guide light kissinger foreign policy henry kissinger not know kissinger massive celebrity secretary state nixon gerald ford administration accord wall street journal secretary state achieve celebrity office henry kissinger newsweek cover depict super ka comic book hero time call world indispensable man gallup rank america admired man life magazine spread picture bevy actress include jill st john secretary state vehemently criticize anti kissinger book influential christopher hitchen trial henry kissinger explicitly accuse kissinger responsibility war crime crime humanity indochina chile argentina cyprus east timor place book mention suppose crime scene bangladesh mention soviet union time neil ferguson write biography henry kissinger talk henry kissinger say accusation stick like mud late life kissinger regularly face protest public appearance odd historical record ferguson point kissinger white house national security advisor secretary state accomplishment include negotiation strategic arm limitation treaty bm treaty soviet union opening china ceasefire yom kippur war end involvement vietnam war north vietnamese counterpart lead award nobel peace prize problem okay foreign policy family nation lot goodhearted people want thing have different way achieve hardcore foreign policy look nasty easy thing wash hand oh united states go hand involve place not right hear think critique correct henry kissinger henry kissinger focused sort metro nikki balance power forget united states global hegemon left hear henry kissinger engage dirty game politic mean united states constantly engage dirty little war world not engage reality reason left think left believe communist regime arise latin america beha help soviet union s bad thing think marxist regime latin america marxist regime latin america s big deal problem matter vietnam turn communist matter cambodian law turn communist matter seymour term communist matter demonstrate complete misreading foreign policy work foreign policy dirty terrible business kissinger central foreign policy message override message avoid bad outcome mean embrace second bad outcome read book kissinger main thing avoid bad outcome way recommendation ukraine come ukraine war currently ongoing early suggest ramp ukraine everybody know ukraine go to don basar crimea ukraine give security guarantee formally tornado give armament defend predatory russian invasion russia basically give dominion territory likely hold please early day war turn presant attempt avoid straight facetoface confrontation nato russia s attempt avoid know not not stone west realize happen ground adjust people rip kissinger rip misread particular situation thing differently s legitimate second rip wrong rip not sort consideration american foreign policy american foreign policy sinful foreign policy planet earth ill ascribe critique kissinger regard cambodia laos example right basic idea promote left cambodia kissinger take secretary state aftermath lbj completely botch vietnam war come say need start bomb communist supply line cambodia authorize mass huge bombing raid cambodia approval congress talk need congressional approval rest s fine foreign policy matter bomb cambodia cause example left claim cause rise pole pott cambodia kamir rouge happen bomb cambodia assume s thing agency world lie true minute united states get vietnam cambodia fail pole pod bunch consideration override message kissinger life thing away quibble argue strenuously hate foreign policy decision foreign policy dangerous dirty business possible engage foreign policy hand totally clean fact nefarious power hate wish bad impact life talk control choke point international trade ve talk strait horror movie strait taiwan talk active military operation united states far place yes home recognize world complex place require complex choice choice choice bad scenario have actually engage second bad scenario story henry kissinger foreign policy agree critique right s engage second bad scenario like well scenario available s good critique not agree total isolationist libertarian position america hand world world well place s difficult position maintain face fact country world hate agree value seek maximize power expense american people s weird notion take root right leave horseshoe theory thing everybody act badly world drive united states see left embrace tiktok osama bin laden circa oh not mean saudi arabia yeah sure right thing regard russia ve invade ukraine attempt extend help hand ukraine overture tornado maybe russia long history vladimir putin territorial invasion neighboring country maybe turn people west agency realize people west agency change decision make dramatically true world fundamental foreign policy mistake assumption west agency sort ethno centricity political arrogance lead ironically death humility acknowledge people interest adverse respect interest mean fight interest okay second campaign go to weird campaign american history balance nature fruit veggie great way sure get essential nutritional ingredient single day balance nature use advanced cold vacuum process encapsulate fruit veggie food supplement sacrifice natural antioxidant capsule completely void additive filler extract synthetic pesticide add sugar thing balance nature fruit veggie capsule know fruit veggie s easy way sure get daily dose fruit veggie balance nature send bunch fruit veggie capsule studio team try everybody feel bright healthy energetic love balance nature help busy schedule significantly manageable producer zach bring balance nature fruit veggie road m actually go to need steal get to honest not sleep night balance nature dot com use promo code shapiro order preferred customer s balance nature dot com promo code shapiro preferred order lady baller trigger comedy decade sure see night mean yes people go trigger stream exclusively dailywire plus tomorrow night pm eastern ve hear talk movie week tell actually see movie believe executive producer film see movie night hilarious get to special prop tyler special special prop crane boy david cohen mean funny movie movie hollywood make not make joke thing need mock idea boy girl girl boy stupid idea require joke s lady baller premier tomorrow night exclusively dailywire plus pm eastern election continue pace right real clear politic average donald trump point recent poll biden backup couple point s poll fact poll s trump poll word joe biden stick ceiling like people force decision matt right break favor trump fact poll show right actually increase decrease support biden actually course couple month support slightly biden poll problem independent break favor trump happen focus joe biden question go to donald trump focus joe biden election move forward order happen trump run revenge campaign campaign political policy revenge campaign listen policy joe biden get rid world fire close border joe biden open border negotiate piece middle east joe biden blow legitimize houthis yemen fund iran restore aid palestinians economy go great gun covid middle covid economy recover steep pace subsequently joe biden joe biden break economic lever right economy run extremely hot danger continue bake inflation right thing great campaign make campaign well well good win campaign donald trump know s great win campaign donald trump m come m go to break people come think american people good donald trump forever version donald trump say tool wield order achieve certain objective shield start voter shield people tend object not want buy personal issue think like issue create left false answer donald trump unjustly persecute election not buy think answer donald trump trump unjustly persecute fund legal defense fund independent case way well s soar poll see s go focus joe biden need stay way think particularly foolish donald trump start warn people weaponization doj trump giant statement truth social yesterday say m point crooked joe biden dunno poll s look point listen wish wish s poll point biden s get justice department sue possible weaponization call maybe difference scale country open big dangerous pandora box joe biden stop election interfere thug late rest country leader opposition party force campaign inside courthouse doable democratic convenient want spend time money way system suppose work file go line not think s wrong not centerpiece campaign certainly campaign say listen joe biden bad president s go lose s reason s target joe biden bad president totally worthwhile campaign fact sort sort personal venge take think s go to problem s thought express way erstwhile ally kevin mccarthy speaker house say yesterday say trumps campaign revenge hell lose not think s wrong like hate mccarthy bad political analysis m try square brain feeling time think great president today not great president say d well president have say country well place campaign renew rebuild restore hell win revenge hell lose s person s go to determine campaign ad okay s right mccarthy right trump need careful trump absolutely kind ridiculous worth note yesterday frankly candidate like trump understand trump halt pass entire republican party pretty point bake cake point donald trump fact endorse blm yesterday like insane thing happen s person name mark fisher build cofounder blm rhode island say honored ms support blm garbage organization not want bbl ms support mean understand trump say take grain salt like giant iceberg salt like giant salt block dead sea point b lmm horrify organization giant grift giant grift giant antisemitic grift giant antiwhite grift bad know term record way record think s bad criminal justice reform kind stuff idea s go to jailbreak bunch people criminal case donald trump want win s go focus failure joe biden second october tax deadline pass know dread stress file taxis know terrible year file taxis long excruciating process fail file ll start pile penalty tax debt need check tax network usa team tax network usa track record success ve reduce tax debt numerous client total billion dollar look million tax debt help settlement not matter not file year year decade tax network usa equip secure good settlement expert attorney tax professional help resolve tax case matter start not let tax debt control life long step resolve tax issue visit tax network usa dot com slash shapiro s tax network usa dot com slash shapiro fall tax debt eat life mean like year decade need solve today tax issue visit tax network usa dot com slash shapiro start resolve issue today s tax network usa dot com slash shapiro today rule presidential politic particularly campaign politic go wrong sort go wrong friend john po hortz commentary magazine podcast s editor commentary magazine write book early bush doom reelect effort basic thesis campaign fail start wrong happen joe biden right wander stage comedian shane gillis put like like roomba s sort confused end speech bump thing happen night biden christmas tree fall try fall sort image not mean s generalized sort feeling instability christmas tree represent actual president united states fall charge weather jews charge weather know fall everybody immediately flash joe biden fall stair right mean here look like night screw like uncle fester head sure equal stand tree able walk room will not fall sadly listen yesterday go frazi fur s okay brian not know ve read detail national christmas tree blow excuse here thing not stand plant s big problem problem not listen brian try pull major thing major thing obviously silly thing silly thing fall direction bad sign incumbent president united states like jimmy carter attack boat rabbit like rab like rabbit rabbit actual thing happen apparently here thing joe biden thingss go wrong course thing go wrong good president thing accord axios evidence stack show americans save draw exist saving cushion course save inflationary economy money worth buck bank today dollar worth worth month ve lose money keep money park instead well buy thing see accelerate rate growth show increase gdp sound amazing right s great s actually happen everybody prebuye material anticipation fact price probably go to continue rise hit holiday accord axio share adult cover month expense saving considerably low year accord polling morning consult share simply not know long saving carry grow july spending right boo economy likely crash end nobodys go to saving cause spend saving inflation bad news economic news mixed people feel tenor hook inflation eat joe biden able tame inflation way people feel secure economy financial expert expect federal reserve go to actually decrease interest rate near future course lot people like wait not inflation run hot right answer yes run hot right decrease inflation interest rate presumably go new spending new investment rest bond market jump obviously bond worth yesterday interest rate start start drop say good news joe bidens economy stuck rock hard place actual policy republicans start joe biden impeachment inquiry republicans apparently consider hold official house vote month authorize impeachment inquiry biden mccarthy initiate speaker house actual vote not think vote gop leader talk possibility vote closed door meeting republican lawmaker republican leader long say vote impeachment investigation unnecessary reconsider white house lawyer lack formal house authorization argue investigation lack constitutional legitimacy problem course clear ve get vote s ve evidence mike johnson like significantly well whip vote kevin mccarthy mccarthy pretty good pretty good count head johnson good not know matter impeachment inquiry joe biden fail presidency go help not white house not great rebuttal here karine jeanpierre yesterday try republicans pursue impeachment inquiry house republicans focus american family instead president family s americans wanna s go to s go to cut buy focus american family joe bidens family joe bidens family american family key american family think hunter biden new tactic actually somewhat intelligent calling house gop open meeting think s actually pretty smart basically call bluff s s say listen come let everybody house deny request james comer head house oversight committee say lawfully issue subpoena hunter biden require appear deposition december expect cooperation subpoena deposition agree hunter biden opportunity testify public setting future date typically house panel insist private deposition allow public appearance january select committee deny request testify publicly include rudy giuliani jim jordan say sure d love hunter open hearing need testify closed door ask question wanna ask fact confirm evidence ve uncover form confidential human source tell fbi record form key fact important get lot key fact interview hunter biden business partner mr archer important talk need talk eric sch sheerman need talk rob walker need talk tony bobinski conversation lawyer think s go to happen need talk jim biden business hunter biden thing need happen chairman say chairman comer say hunter biden deposition frankly think open hearing think great s need happen american people fact truth okay republican go to push go particularly good joe biden alrighty second go to dumb excuse american national debt ve see recently member member use coach shapiro checkout month free annual plan click link description join look heart healthy energy try support blood pressure superbeet heart shoe pair healthy lifestyle antioxidant superbeet clinically show nearly time effective promote normal blood pressure healthy lifestyle double potential super beat heart choose find free day supply superbeet heart choose order go superbeetscom code daily s super beet scom 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Ep. 1828 - Hamas Is Here Published: 10/13/2023 I wanna tell you two stories. The first story is from my days at U C L A when I was an undergrad student. So you're going back 20 years now, the Muslim Student Association, an organization that has routinely supported Hamas and Hezbollah, ideologically and otherwise, put out a student newspaper at the time called Al Taleb. That student newspaper joked in the run up to nine 11 about renaming the newspaper all Taliban and making Osama Bin Laden editor-in-chief. They also, again, in rhetoric, supported Hamas Kbo. They, they didn't make any bones about any of this. When I sought to write about this stuff as an undergrad for the U C L A Daily Bruin, which was the campus newspaper, I was told such columns would not be run. Those were the only columns I ever wrote for the U C L A Daily Bruin. Again, this is back in like 2000, 2001 that the Daily Bruin ever refused outright to run. Story number two, it was about a decade ago, my wife and I visited London. It happened to be Boxing Day. I know anything about Boxing Day, but it turns out that everything in London was basically closed everything except for Madam Tso's Wax Museum. Well, we had nothing better to do, so my wife and I went there, and inside the wax museum, there were the usual bevy of famous figures. In the final room, there was a wax of Albert Einstein. So we took some funny photos, and then we turned around and what we saw was three young Muslims, two women and a man. They were also taking pictures with the Einstein Wax. They were strangling the Einstein wax. Well, it occurred to me that perhaps that might have something to do with the fact that Einstein was pretty obviously Jewish, but I brushed it off because I'm a good westerner. You know, maybe these guys just hated the general theory of relativity or something. Well, at the time, the museum also concluded with a wax of Adolf Hitler. Now, this wasn't a wax that my wife and I particularly wanted a photo with, but it turns out that these young Muslims did this time, they got really buddy-buddy with the wax. They put their arms around Hitler, they pose smilingly with Hitler. Multiculturalism is a failure. It has always been a failure. Multiculturalism, the suggestion that all cultures are at root the same in quality and beauty and truth, it is a lie. That lie is dangerous. That lie leads to moral blindness. As we've been discussing the last few days, it leads to atrocities. Murdered babies, raped women, kidnappings, beheadings. It leads to death, it leads to carnage, but multiculturalism doesn't just excuse evil abroad. It brings it home. Multiculturalism suggests that we in the West, in the United States, the uk, France, Germany, and the rest of the Western world, we have to open our borders. After all, if we don't, we're racists. If you believe that all cultures are morally equivalent, that all cultures are equally meritorious, the only reason then to deny somebody entry is race, and that makes you a racist. There's a reason that multicultural advocates are open borders advocates. It's because their logic demands it. What difference would it make to you if migrants are arriving from the Gaza Strip or from Taiwan? Underneath all cultures are the same. Well, that is ridiculous, and we all know it's ridiculous. We've all been afraid to say it for decades, even in countries where the leadership has recognized the failures of multiculturalism, broadly speaking, that same leadership has been totally unable to speak the truth about migration, and when they do, they're chastised by the media. This is why the media has pretended a away disproportionate criminal activity from Middle Eastern and African migrants to Europe. To recognize the truth would be awkward. It might seem racist because we're not allowed to point out that it's not about race, it's about culture, and not all cultures are the same. We're seeing this shyness today across the world, and the effects of it as fundamentalists. Muslims rally in favor of Hamas. A terror group is slaughtered 1300 Jews in Western countries. They're joined by useful idiots on the radical left who believe in a coalition of the dispossessed that can help tear tale the institutions of the West. Hence, all the talk recently by left wingers about mass murder of Jews as just, you know, decolonization question, are these people we actually want in our country? It's a serious question. These are not people who are protesting for a Palestinian state or even protesting Israeli policies. These are people who are protesting in favor of a terrorist government that just committed the worst atrocities against Jews since the Holocaust. And there are thousands of such protesters in the West, because multiculturalism is a failure. We can pretend it's not, but it is. And what we're watching right now, breaking out from London to New York, from our campuses to the streets of Paris, is a breakdown in the social fabric of the West. It's a breakdown brought about by a failure of confidence in our own values and unwillingness to declare the superiority of those values. Now, we're feeling that in my community directly today. That is because Kamas has now called for a global day of rage in the middle of a war that they initiated because they decided to slaughter civilians in their beds. Instead of directing all of their resources toward helping GA and civilians, which is, you know what a normal government might do, they've decided that doesn't matter at all. Instead, what they are doing is they're calling for a worldwide day of Jihad. That is for today. They're referring to the day as the all oxa flood. According to Breitbart, the Middle East mem Media Research Institute memory, which has been doing amazing work for years, largely ignored. You've seen them on this show, but a lot of other shows haven't played their stuff. All they do literally all they do all day long is they watch Kamas TV and they watch Palestinian Arab TV and they watch Al Jazeera in Arabic, and then they translate that stuff and they put it online. Memory reported. Hamas is saying, quote, we declare next Friday, the Friday of the Alsa flood. As a day of general mobilization in our Arab and Islamic world, and among the free people of the world, it is a day to rally support, offer, aid, and participate actively. It is a day to expose the crimes of the occupation, isolate it and foil all of its aggressive schemes. It is a date for sacrifice, heroism, and dedication, and to earn the honor of defending the first kila of Muslims, the third holiest mosque, and the ascension of the trusted messenger. We call upon the free people of the world to mobilize in solidarity with our Palestinian people and in support of their just cause and legitimate rights to freedom, independence, return, and self-determination. They've called more specifically for protests. They have suggested that Palestinians rise up within Judea and Samaria in the so-called West Bank. They've called on Arab citizens of Israel to attack the state. They've called on Arabs in the surrounding countries to attack the borders of Israel and these protests that they're calling for across the globe, they aren't just protests. They've called for action, right? Part of a global day of Jihad. Well, this has resulted in law enforcement having to step up patrols on Jewish houses of worship and businesses, according to N B C News, local and federal law enforcement agencies across the United States are stepping up their patrols of Jewish houses of worship, Jewish owned businesses, Israeli diplomatic buildings. I can tell you that the amount of worry in the Jewish community in the United States is extremely high. A lot of people keeping their kids home from school today because they're worried about the global day of jihad, and those worries are not empty. We've seen mass protests in a huge number of cities right here where I live in South Florida. There've been a bunch of protests. A lot of these protests have devolved into some level of chaos. If any counter protestors show up, the, the attempt to go international with this sort of stuff is a new thing. Usually when they call for a day of rage, it's usually something that happens specifically in the Middle East. Now they're attempting to broaden all of this out. How seriously is N Y P D taking this? Well, apparently the N Y P D canceled all training officer, all training for officers on Thursday or the entire force to be in uniform and on patrol. The officials at the police department said that they'll have additional security at large gatherings, cultural sites, and houses of worship. All personnel have to report in Los Angeles in uniform as well. So things are, are getting very ugly in a lot of these major cities. Apparently, none of the online threats are specific and credible at this point, but out of an abundance of caution, again, a there are schools in New York that are actively shutting down. They're saying there are no credible threats, but I, I don't know what, what you would expect Jews to believe at this point about a credible threat considering it was the greatest slaughter of, of Jews since, again, the Holocaust. So a lot of Jews are, are very, very worried today. Some Jewish schools I mentioned in New York have closed. The worries are not empty. The worries are not empty, and the reason that you know that the worries are not empty is because of what is happening here in the United States as well as abroad. So just take a quick example. Apparently, according to odyssey.com and 10 10 wins, a 19 year old woman attacked a 24 year old male Israeli student with a stick outside of Columbia University's main library amid division on campus. Regarding the Israel Hamas war, the police responded to a report of the assault in Morningside Heights outside, but Little Library at 6:10 PM on Wednesday, the attack occurred when the victim confronted the woman after watching her tear down flyers, displaying the names and pictures of Israelis kidnapped by Hamas last weekend, the victim who has to be referred to anonymously for fear of safety included s suffered some minor bruises, but apparently what happened is that a group was hanging up posters of the people who are currently being held hostage, and the suspect ripped the posters down. And when they said, why are you doing that, the suspect then attacked the people who are putting the posters up. And you might think that's an isolated incident. You might think, well, you know, this sort of stuff happens on campus all the time, except for the fact that what we see in broad scale and and universities are the very center of it is a Green Red Alliance and by Green Red Alliance Here I'm talking about Hamas Green and I'm talking about Far Left Red. And that alliance has been ongoing for a very long time on campuses is now bled over into our regular politics and into sort of daily life. So our friend Ami Horowitz, he went down to the East Village of New York. Remember, this is not the Gaza Strip, this is not the Middle East. This is the East Village of New York. And he asked some 30 people whether Hamas was justified in murdering 1300 Jews in their beds. And here's how it went. Their attack on Israel was justified. I'll just, it's just The cause and effect of, of oppression. Hamas had the moral high ground here. I Feel like Hamas are just defending themselves from years and years of oppression and looking around, living through the rumbles. And I feel like it's just justified and they're traumatized. Yeah, I, a lot of my friends kind of side with Israel, but I, I feel like there's more than one side with this. I wouldn't say they attacks are fully unjustified. I'm on the side of Palestine. The Israeli government has kind of been kind of brutalized about Palestinians. So like I understand why they try and fight back. I understand where they're coming from and I understand why they're doing what they're doing. They're, They're fighting back. They've been entrapped for 15 years, since 75 years of oppression, 15 years of blockade. They need to break out of prison. And that's exactly what they were Doing. Yeah. Years of genocide and raping and stuff. Yeah, I think so. They have every right to defend themselves. That's all I'm saying. Outta the 30 people that we spoke to, a total of two, the Hamas' brutality was unjustified. And again, that is not rare. That's the East Village of New York. So again, the the Green Red Axis rides and it is very active in the United States. It's active in London, it's active in France. A Fairfax County school board member named Abra Oish, an elected official in Fairfax County. This Virginia actively opposed a moment of silence for the victims of the Hamas massacre. Just this is just a couple of nights ago. It might seem simple aggressors attacking families in a state seeking vengeance, but we often sympathize with and humanize the side that we relate to and the side that looks more like us or that our biases guide us towards. But doing so obscures the root of the violence. Centuries of human history teach us that escalations happen when problems are ignored, realities are denied, and voices are censored. When one narrative dominates from the world stage all the way to our classrooms, we do our students no favors by calling for peace and being unwilling to back what peace requires. As the old civil rights adage set goes, no justice, no peace. You see, no justice, no peace. According to an elected official in Fairfax, Virginia, om requires that Jewish babies be slaughtered in their cribs. This is is what honestly, it's just, it's just you need context, you need nuance. Or perhaps we have a lot of very, very evil people who believe a very, very lot of evil things living here in the West because the west has opened itself up wide with its multicultural nonsense. Here are Michigan Democrats just the other day refusing a vote on a moment of silence for Israeli victims. You know why this is, this is because a huge percentage of Michigan Democrat support comes from the Michigan Muslim community that would be the same community in, for example, Dearborn that was holding a mass rally in favor of Hamas over the PA course of the past couple of days. Speaker recognizes Representative Schutte. Thank you Madam Speaker. I move to discharge the committee on government operations from further consideration of HR 1 46 and request a record roll call vote. Representative Shudi moves the discharge of his resolution. All those is demand supported. The demand is not supported. Now the question is on discharge, all those in favor will say, aye. Those opposed nay. A, the resolution is not discharged. Speaker recognizes majority floor leader, Aash Speaker, no for the voting, the house adjourned is standard Aurn until Tuesday, October 17th at one 30 with That objection. So order, the house will see at ease. That's right. The Michigan House dominated by Democrats at this point refusing a moment of silence for Israeli victims, for Jewish victims of, again, the worst massacre in the past 80 years against Jews. In one second, I wanna get to what's happening on campus first. Obviously all of this is creating an enormous amount of, of uncertainty in the economic sphere and the, the uncertainty in the economic sphere is going to dominate for the next couple of years, if not longer than that. One way for you to actually hedge your betts on that sort of stuff is to take a look at Birch Gold. Well, Birch Gold will help you at least diversify into assets like precious metals. You can call Birch Gold today, preserve your savings in a tax sheltered retirement account. I've been a customer of Birch, Gold Group for years. They're the experts in precious metals and they make it incredibly easy to become a customer. 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So if the green red axis, the Hamas Communist and the the Hamas far left axis is going to form an alliance, obviously it's going to be on campus. That's precisely what we're seeing. We have so much footage pouring in of protesters at, at various universities demonstrating the moral evil. It is impossible to go through all of it, but we'll start with Columbia. Here's some protesters at Columbia To the Sea will be free, Palestine will be free, And shouting from the river to the sea Palestine will be free. That slogan, of course, is a genocidal slogan meant to destroy literally every Jew in the region. And as we've seen from Hamas, we know exactly what that means. That means the full scale slaughter of Jews. And those are Americans, presumably who are shouting that in the middle of the Columbia University campus. Now remember, these are campuses that are deeply worried about microaggressions. If you say that a boy is a boy and a girl is a girl, then you may have microaggressed to the point where you'll be disciplined by the campus offices, but if you shout from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free that like directly the same week that 1300 Jews were murdered in their beds. Well then that's, that's just, you know, complex moral nuance because multiculturalism gang, it's just a different culture. It's just a different type of thinking and we have to explain, we, we have to understand that really things are just very nuanced and cycle of violence. Very, very complex. Now you can feel people reverting back to their priors. I said a couple of days ago that people have revelations about politics in hot moments, in moments of clarity, and then they immediately revert to the priors. You can feel it happening in real time. And so already the shock effect of people who are protesting in favor of the people who just murdered and burned babies already, the shock effect of that is wearing away because we are going already. You can feel it happening. We are already going back to our western p priors, which is everyone's reasonable. Everyone can have a conversation ev all cultures are basically equivalent. Everyone wants to be free and it's not true. It's not true. The people who are shouting from the river to the sea Palestine will be free. Those people are not friends of the West. Those are enemies of the West. Those are people who hate the west just as much as they hate Israel. Those are people who are fully willing to give their full backing to murderous, genocidal anti-Jewish group. And then we all kind of like brush it off because we don't wanna see, we don't wanna see the blinders are right back on. You can feel it happening in real time and you can feel it happening. People want their priors to be true and those priors are so comforting. The prior that antisemitism, well that's a vestige of the past. We'll never have a holocaust again, it doesn't matter. We just saw Holocaust level violence against Jews in Israel. Jews killed for being Jews. It doesn't matter. We're gonna recontextualize it and pretend away the reason that it happened or we're gonna manufacture reasons why it happened, or we're going to say that the Jews are just as bad as the Nazis that they face. That's what we're going to say. And you can feel it happening in real time because otherwise, to look at the specter of thousands, I'm talking thousands of people across the United States, rallying in favor of a group that is as bad or worse than Al-Qaeda might be. Somewhat disquieting, it might call instant question. Some of our priors about who we should let into the country or about which cultures are equivalent to other cultures and which cultures are abjectly manifestly inferior. There is no such thing as an inferior race races. Well, I mean, it's not clear exactly where the boundaries are between races. Race is a genetic aspect that that has to do with facial structure or maybe it has to do with point of origin or maybe it has to do with your skin color. None of that is relevant when it comes to human interpersonal relations. The only thing that really matters is culture. Culture of course, is how you act. It is the way that you think and all of that is environmentally imbibed that doesn't come from your race. That distinction is crucial. That distinction is really important. Saying that certain cultures are worse than other cultures is simply saying that some ways of thought and ways of acting are worse than other ways of thought and ways of acting, which is obviously true unless you are an idiot at U C L A, mass protests, people screaming Intifada, ADA Intifada means uprising. This is a call for more Palestinians to murder. Jews, obviously. Alright, and this is a pretty massive rally at my alma mater. Again, folks, if you have a kid who's getting ready for college, you should think very seriously about whether you wish to send them to one of these garbage indoctrination centers and instead maybe, you know, get them a job. Here is what it looked like at U C L A yesterday, By the way. You can see how many of these people are wearing masks. You know why they're wearing masks? Not 'cause they're afraid of covid. The reason they're wearing masks is because they don't wish to be identified. Why don't they wish to be identified with their cause? Because they know that that causes evil. That is particularly true for the, for the members of radical Muslim communities who are, are not saying this stuff just for show. There are a lot of kind of fellow traveler liberals who are trying to demonstrate their bonafides in the same way that you saw a bunch of morons go out in the street rallying with the perverse organization, black Lives Matter, in order to demonstrate their bonafides to their fellow liberal friends. Seeing a lot of that at these campuses, that would be the red part of the Green Red Alliance here. But the people who are truly committed, those are the ones who are covering their faces. We have some more of these protests on college campuses in just one second. So I gotta tell you my phone coverage, it matters a lot to me these days. I've been spending literally every moment on the phone, the phone coverage that I trust. Pure Talk, as you know, Pure Talk happens to be a great company. They speak to, they, they have core values that are aligned with the values of The. Daily Wire, our veterans gave everything to protect the nation, and Pure Talk understands the sacrifices that they've made. 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Also, again, they share your values. It is the American way. Okay? So America's college campuses, they've not just been dominated by by fools, they're dominated by incredibly dangerous people. These are, these are not people who share your values or American values. Here's a protest at George Mason University. Here's what that looked like. They got hang gliders in my tanks. We got hang gliders. Glory to the resistance fighters. Glory to the resistance fighters In case you can't hear what they are chanting. What they're chanting is they've got tanks, we've got hang gliders, glory to the resistance fighters. That would be a reference to the, the Kamas members who jetted in on, resist on, on hang gliders into an E D M Music festival and mowed down nearly 300 people. That is them at George Mason University. Openly cheering that. Again, pretend, pretend as much as you want. This is what these people believe. This is what these people believe. You don't believe they, one of the amazing things about the arrogance of the West is that they say it right out loud to your face and you're like, nah, don't believe you don't believe. It must be something else. Must be ulterior motives. Kamasa iss like, we wanna murder all the Jews and the media's like, but what do they really want? You have these people shouting that they, they're in fate glory to the resistance fighters who just mowed down dance festival attendees. And everybody's like, nah, but what do they really want? It's really about the complexities of the Middle East, isn't it? Hmm. A lot of chin stroking these days. A lot of people think, oh my gosh, well, you know, this does, this conflict does have a long history. Now listen, We can go through the history. You go to my YouTube page, I have an entire 45 minute explanation of the history, and we're gonna put out an episode this weekend that explains some of the myths about all of this. But that's not what this is about. This is about murdering Jews and they're in favor of it up or down on the murder of Jews. And they're like, yes. And we're like, we don't believe you. I'm sorry, like you say you wanna murder Jews, but what I think you really want, what you really want is a better economic way of life. It's like, well, if they wanted a better economic way of life, maybe they would've pursued that or put their focus there. But I noticed that's not where they're putting any of their focus. By, by the way, have you ever noticed the, the dramatic lack of Palestinian advocates rushing to the microphones to condemn this? Have you noticed that? Just a little bit like at all now, it's amazing in the United States, whenever there is any sort of horrific shooting that is committed by somebody who's even vaguely associated with a political clause, everybody vaguely associated with that political clause comes out and condemns it, of course, because they wanna make clear that they're dissociated from that evil. Have you seen anyone coming out and being like, man, that that Hamas group, they're truly evil. I mean, we're not associated with them. They're truly evil. And the answer is no. The answer is no, because again, the cause is not a territorial dispute. Israel could not give away land enough absent its own destruction that would please these people. They couldn't. And by the way, you know what that entails? That means death of every Jew in the area for all the talk about quote unquote Israeli apartheid. Let me point out just a quick fact. 20% of Israel's population is Arab. You know what I noticed? 0% of Gaza's population is Jewish. 0% of any of the Palestinian rural areas in the West Bank are Jewish. 0% of Jordan is Jewish, 0% of Egypt is Jewish. 0% of Iran, effectively speaking, is Jewish. The tiny Jewish population, 0% of Syria is Jewish, 0% of Lebanon is Jewish, 0% of Saudi Arabia is Jewish and weird, weird. Just strange how that worked. Strange, but don't worry, it's, it's, it's Israel that is the problem. And and again, they say it right to your face, they say it right to you. They're not hiding the ball. This is the part that is, that is just astonishing to me. And it'll never cease to be astonishing. They do it right in front of you. They say it right to your face and everybody in the media goes, no, no. We, no, no, couldn't, no. The protest continued across the country. Aristo, Arizona State University had a big protest yesterday, again, in favor of Kamas. Again, look at the size of this protest. Please tell, I have a question. Are these people who, who are marching in favor of Kamas that you would want working for your company? Serious question. You get to choose. You get to choose. It seems to me that supporting Kamas is a pretty good barrier to entry for, for people, you know, earning a solid living at Chase Manhattan Bank, or it should be University of Washington had a mass pro kamas protest as, as well. Here is what that looked like. Land peace, land demand land. There is only, So this is Antifa joined together with Palestinian advocates, of course. And when I say Palestinian Hamas advocates, and remember all the talk about how Hamas is separable from the movement. The movement isn't trying to separate Hamas from it. I noticed just the thing I noticed it, it, have you heard a single call for Hamas to turn over the hostages for any of these people? Any call, any Bueller, of course not. They don't care. They're perfectly happy for Jewish hostages to be murdered in tunnels. They don't care. Don't give a shit. They don't, they don't care whether it'll come out, whether God's and civilians die. Has there been any call for, because you know what Israel said? They turn off the water in power. And Israel said, by the way, we'll turn it back on if you give us our hostages. And everybody goes, how could they turn off the water and power? Well, I noticed that's a conditional statement. If you turn the hostages over, we will turn back on the water and power. And it seems like not an unreasonable demand since you are holding babies and women and Holocaust survivors, that seems, by the way, you're holding a dozen Americans, right? It seems like not the most unre, but has one protestor said that Hamas might wanna turn those people over. Not, not one has one protestor acknowledged that if Hamas would, would stop all of this. If they, if they would turn into a legit government, which is what Israel wanted them to do for 20 years after handing over the entire Gaza Strip to them that none of this would've happened, that civilian deaths are on the hands of, of course not. Are there any demands on the governing body in the Gaza Strip, which is kamas to protect civilians? No, of course not. Because the goal is the destruction of Israel. And if they can't do it by running into Israel, murdering every civilian, then they'll attempt to do it by relieving the international legitimacy of Israel by planting babies directly in front of military targets. That's precisely what they're doing right now. Again, these campuses, which are supposed places of safety and, and openness and diversity, well, when it comes to Jewish students feeling, you know, just a little threatened by people who are now defending mass murder of Jews, then of course there, there's nothing to be done. Here are Jewish students at University of Washington witnessing this pro Hamas rally and being told by the authorities, well, you know, that's just the way that it goes. Now listen, free speech is indeed free speech, also free speech has never obtained at these campuses. I've been banned from half these campuses for, for trying to just speak about things like economics. These, these are places where, again, if you use the wrong pronoun, they will put you in the, in the gulag. But if you say Jews should be murdered on mass and it's justified, then if a Jew gets upset, that's obviously the, you know, free speech. That's when, that's when the free speech bone kicks back in. Interesting, interesting how your standard kicks back in the minute. The Jews are the victims. They want our people dead allowed. Are you allowing him? Why are you putting us? They want him dead Again, it's a, it's a, remember, it's a, it's a micro, why would Jews live in fear after 1300 of them were slaughtered and then all of their advocates come out on campus rallying for the slaughterers? Why would they be afraid in the, in the world of microaggressions, I noticed that there are certain microaggressions. You guys do not seem to care, macroaggressions rather, that you don't seem to care very much about at all. Now I get back to this question of how much support does Kamas have in the so-called moderate Palestinian community or pro-Palestinian community? And the answer is, I'm still looking for the people who are wildly attempting to di dissociate from Hamas at this point. Where are they like, really? Where are they? I'm gonna give you an example. So there's a Palestinian American activist and a human rights attorney named Nora Kott who's on with Katie Tur. The the media, by the way, are desperately searching for a Palestinian advocate who will dissociate from Hamas and say, the Hamas is utterly unjustified, a garbage organization and terror organization. They can't find anybody. They can't find anybody. You know why? 'cause it turns out that these folks don't think like you, they don't think like you, they don't think it's bad. They don't think it is inarguably bad to kill babies. They don't, I I don't know what else to tell you. They're saying it to your face. I'm not saying it. They're saying it. How many times do they have to say it before you believe it? It's not even me characterizing what they're saying. It's them saying it. So here is a, a moderate Palestinian American activist and human rights attorney. This is what human rights attorneys do, is they worry deeply about the legitimacy of, of Hamas. They worry deeply about how much Hamas was provoked to this. This is Nora Kott saying that Israel is responsible for all of it. Nora, the images that we've been seeing for the past six days, both inside of Gaza and the images of what happened to the Israeli citizens, both have been so gut wrenching, so difficult to watch. It, it it, it, it makes it feel like there is a, an intractability to this fight as you've been studying this, what what can happen next? Thank you, Katie. These are indeed gut wrenching image, gut wrenching images, but they're also preventable images and preventable mass atrocities. The condition that the largest crime and the condition that sustains this violence is the crime of apartheid and the apartheid system that Israel oversees and that the United States has been the primary supporter of in military, financial, and diplomatic support. Okay? By the way, Nora Kott, again, a human rights attorney. She's very much in favor of human rights. She says that Kamasa is a political movement here. She's explaining it's a political movement, guys. It's not a terror group that murders civilians and aims rockets at babies and murders, children in their bed and rapes women. There are political movements. Don't you see? These are the moderates. These are the moderates. Where are the moderates guys? Where are they? I honestly, where are you? Israel's been searching for the moderates for like 40 years. Israel does not want to govern 2 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. They don't, they wanted not to govern it so strongly, they handed it over to a fucking terrorist group. Israel wants so strongly not to govern areas like Janine. They handed over to Yassar Arafat, an actual terrorist who actively shot Jews. Like that's how much they don't wanna govern it, by the way, not just Israel, I've mentioned this before. Israel tried to turn over the Gaza trip to Egypt. You know what Israel Egypt said? They were like, no, we don't want them. Are you out of your mind? They tried to turn over places like Janine to Jordanian control. The Jordanian is like, are you kidding me? No way It, but don't worry. Hamas is a legit political group. Where are the moderates? Where are they? Where are they? See it turns out that all your crap about the peace process, it requires a peace partner. But if there is no peace partner, so you're just gonna wish cast your way into a peace partner, it ain't gonna work again. These are the moderates. The moderates say that Hamas is a political movement And a unity government. I do You think Hamas can stay, Whether or not they can or cannot stay is not the issue. Because the alternative of what you're saying is that we decimate Hamas, and I have to remind viewers, Hamas is a political movement comprised of Palestinians who believe in a freedom struggle forward. They are not merely the sensational images that you see the members of Hamas that you saw recently, right? I just want to make clear to people that these are not monstrous who emerge from underground just af wanting to terrorize Israelis. These are young men who have only grown, grown up under siege for the past 17 years, who have been subject to four large scale offensive that have bombed them in their homes, that have targeted medics and hospitals and water supplies that have refused them. Remember, they're not monsters. The people who rape women and kidnap babies and kill them. They're not monsters. She says, she says it, by the way, what Pre the, the, the context free insanity of what she's saying here. It it, you know, they've been the victims of grounding. Hey, pray, tell what might have preceded those ground incursions that Israel had to fight. What or, or the aerial bombardment that Israel had to use in the God. What may have preceded that? Oh, was it thousands of rockets falling on Israeli cities? Might it have been that The gall of these people and the media buy-in because they don't wanna believe it? They can't believe it. They refuse to believe it. It undermines their entire worldview. If there are people who have cultures that are inferior, it undermines their entire world. I'm sorry. Any culture that calls Hamas freedom fighters and talks about the victimization of people who murder babies in their cribs, that is an inferior culture. And if you can't say that there is something wrong with you, But, there is something wrong with the media. The thing that is wrong with the media is they hate their own culture so much that they cannot even deal with the idea that there are superior and inferior cultures and they've surrendered. And when you surrender, you lose. By the way, again, not just a problem for, for our media, it is also a problem internationally. The number of mass protests that we are seeing all around the world in favor of Hamas should be truly terrifying to Westerners who actually care about, you know, Western values. We'll get to that in a moment. According to a recent report, planned Parenthood continues to rake in billions in taxpayer funding and private contributions. And yet, pro-life organizations are winning the hearts and minds of their clientele. While Planned Parenthood continues to rake in the big bucks, the number of abortions performed year over year is slowly decreasing. In short, we are winning the fight to end abortion But. there is a long way to go. 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So it's not just a problem of exporting terrorism and, and terrorist support to the United States. Obviously it's also happening in countries across, across the world. Massive pro terrorism protest in Paris yesterday. Here's what that looked like. Look at the size of this. Look at the size of that protest. Look at the size of the, of the number of people who love Hamas, who love baby murder. Look at that astonishing. And they're, they're saying it out loud. All the quiet parts they say out loud. All of them do. Does the West have any oblig? I have a question. Does the West have any, any obligation to absorb people who, who cheer the murder of babies? I just have a question like what obligation do we the west have to take in people from a culture that says that what Hamas just did is totally fine and part of a broader struggle? What obligation does the West have, have? And if you feel that the West has that obligation, I ask you a question. Why don't you have some of these people in your house seriously welcome 'em on in. You want 'em in, you take 'em, put 'em in your house, put 'em in your, put 'em in your apartment, you got an extra bedroom. What's the problem? After all, it's a multicultural world and we're all the same. Underneath here are Hamas supporters in Vienna. Again, look at the side of the size of The Hamas support here. There's a few police officers surrounded by this mass protest in favor of Hamas dancing and cheering. That's in Austria Gang, and that's not, that's not in Gaza City. That is not in Aman. That is in Austria. That is in Austria. Hey, how about London? We know London's been a serious problem in terms of its, its danger for Jews for quite a while. Here's just the latest, bro. This is one of the smaller protests in recent days. 5, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5. The Side. Yeah, here they are, you know, carrying smoke and, and Palestinian flags and, and all the rest of this. Again, this is in the aftermath of attacks on Jews. That's what this is. Okay? So all of this is part and parcel of this group of people. When I say this group field, Hamas and its supporters who are playing a suckers game with you and the Suckers game is that you are a fool and you'll revert back to your priors. That is the suckers game, and you probably will, the West probably will, because the West does not have any sort of coones about its own values at all. None. So they're immediately shifting the focus to what's going on in Gaza. That's fine. We should be focusing on what is going on in Gaza. Tremendous human suffering in Gaza. Every bit of it is Hamas' fault. Every single part of it is Hamas' fault. I'll say it again for those too slow to understand. I'll say it real slow in small words. Israel abandoned the Gaza Strip in 2005. It is now 2023. Hamas has ruled the Gaza Strip since 2006. It is now 2023. Hamas is in control of the Gaza Strip Hamas is holding hostages. Hamas is in control of its own civilians. Those civilians live under the rule of the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip. Those civilians are Hamas' responsibility. It is a war crime to put your civilian in front of military targets. It is a war crime to shield your rockets with children. It is a war crime to hold hostages. It is a war crime to put hostages in a war zone, to try to prevent bombing. All of these are war crimes. Every ounce of blood that is spilled, every building that is taken down, every ugly photo you see from Gaza is on Hamas. It is that simple. There is no duality about this. What have I been unclear? Please explain the flaw in this particular thinking. I'm waiting naturally, the, the Hamas advocates, they have, they've now decided that they have degrees in international law, which is exciting. Alexander Ocasio-Cortez, one of our most brilliant expositors of international law, being a bartender and all. She, she says, this is collected. She's talking about the cutoff of water and power to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli energy minister cats. He said, no electrical switch will be turned on. No water hydrant will be open. No fuel truck will enter until the Israeli Abes are returned home. Well, again, seems like a conditional statement at this point. A o c could say, you know what? They're holding like a bunch of Americans in Abha. Probably some of them have already been raped, if not all, some of them have been tortured. Many of them are probably dead already. But is she calling for the return of the hostages? Of course not. Of course not. Instead, she's saying that America has to draw a line with the Israelis. With the Israelis. The real war crime is Israel fighting Kamas. Yeah, she's a Genius. Folks, this is, this is your rising star in the Democratic party. Slow clap for EU geniuses who decided to make her the face of your party. Our responsibility is to the stability and the security of the region. That means being able to support, not support Yes, Israel in its defensive capacities, right in its Ability. Not support Israel, not no Context, but It oh, maybe mean like defense. Oh, That the United States has a responsibility to ensure accountability to human rights, to prevent the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and to ensure that horrors do not happen in the names of victims who do not want their tragedy used to justify further violence and injustice. She's gonna speak on behalf of the dead Jews in Kaza. She's gonna speak on behalf of the dead Jews in ot. She's gonna speak on behalf of the grandparents who watched their grandchildren be murdered in cold blood. She's gonna speak on their behalf. I I I, I want, I want every Democrat who has defended this. I, I want them explaining what she meant by that. I want them explaining. I want her explaining what she meant. What did she mean when she just said that in the name of Vict? They don't want their victim, they don't want their victimhood to be used to justify this. You're speaking on behalf of the dead bodies in Kfa Beri. That's what in kibbutz Beri. That's, that's who you're speaking on behalf of. Let me explain something that's not how international law works. Geneva Conventions, article 29, the party to the conflict in whose hands protected persons may be, is responsible for the treatment, a accorded to them by its agents, irrespective of any individual responsibility which may be incurred when hamma. In other words, for those who can't read and don't speak legal, what that means is that if you are the governing party and you have civilians and you put them in front of military targets, that is your fault. Article 28, the presence of a protected person that would be a civilian may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, which is precisely what left-wing morons are claiming today. That basically murder Jews plus I hide behind children means immunity. That's what they're claiming today. That's the formula I murder. Jews plus I hide behind a gazen civilian, I am now immune. That is what they're attempting to claim. Geneva Convention three, no prisoner of war may at any time be sent to or detained in areas where he may be exposed to the fire of the combat zone, nor may his presence be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations that sound familiar, like don't put hostages in the line of fire, which is exactly what they've been doing. Or how about this i c c statute utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas, or military Forces immune from military operations constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts. How about the 1977 additional protocol? One article 51 7 says, the parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations. You may have noticed that that's precisely what Hamas is doing. Israel is currently telling people to leave and Hamas is currently telling them to stay, to use them as human shields. According to the Geneva Conventions Article 53, any destruction by the occupying power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons is prohibited except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations, which is what is happening right now. I mean, it's, it's clear under international law that a country has the ability to defend itself, and it is also clear under international law, the human rights violator is the person who stations babies in front of its rockets. But I, I can't, I can't get over a o c saying that I can't, I can't get over her saying that she speaks in the name of the victims to leave Hamas alone. The, and there are no words. There are, there are no words. By the way, her, her garbage about ethnic cleansing is a talking point that I just like to bunk. I I like to clean this up real fast. This talking point. The Palestinian, the Palestinian population in 1948, which is the year of the establishment of the state of Israel in that region, in the, in the region of Gaza Israel today, Judean, Samaria, all of it, 1.37 million. Here are the populations today in these particular areas. In the Gaza Strip, 2 million in Judea and Samaria. The, the so-called West Bank, 3 million inside Israel, 1.6 million. So in other words, there are in this area 1.37 million Palestinians living in 1948. Today, there are almost 7 million living in these areas. That is a really bad job of ethnic cleansing. I've noticed, however, you know what else I noticed the number of Jews who were living in Iraq. There were tens of thousands of Jews living in Iraq in 1948. How many live there now? Zero. How many Jews were living in Iran in 1948. Hundreds of thousands. You know, how many are living there now? Zero. How many Jews were living in Jordan in Egypt in any of these places before 1948? The answer is a lot. How many are living there now? Zero. But you know what happened historically speaking, the state of Israel, the tiny state of Israel with barely a military, took in all of them. Some 800,000 Jews were kicked out of Arab countries, Muslim countries in 19 47, 19 48. And Israel took in all of them. Meanwhile, you know what the Arabs did with these, with these refugee populations? They put them in refugee camps and they left them there for 70 years. For 70 years. And this is why Jake Tapper yesterday. He was pointing out, you know, I, I noticed that Muslim countries are not doing anything to help God and civilians. Oh, that's a shock. That's a shock. Except unless you've read, you know, a book. Here's Jake Tapper yesterday. What about the innocent Palestinians? Can they get out? Yeah, right. The the women, the children, right? The, the elderly. How can they get out that, that still has not been figured out. No, Egypt does not want to open the Raffa crossing. They're Refusing to. They, they don't. Right? Egypt, Jordan, I mean, Qatar, the u a e, Saudi Arabia, all these countries that prepare the, the, that talk about how much they care about the Palestinians. They could help Right now they could help the Palestinians escape. They could help, they could say, okay, stop bombing, and we will go in there and we will, we will, we will help Gaza like become a thriving society. They, they could do all sorts of things. They have money, by the way. I've heard that. Yeah. Yeah. But I, where are they? Where are they? Is where they usually are, which is, you know, generally on the sidelines and, and pretty myopically thinking about themselves. Plus, you know, they would all like Hamas to go away, So they're not taking in any, again, Egypt. Look at that map again, Egypt, right there on the Southern, but that Rafa crossing right there, you know what Egypt said? No way. No way in hell. In fact, not only that, lemme show you some pictures of the Egypt Gaza border. This is what the Egypt Gaza border looks like. You think that that's, that, that terrible, that terror separation wall, the one that was breached by Hamas. That's, that's terrible. I'm going to show you now what the wall looks like between Gaza and Egypt. Oh, look, it's a two layer giant wall. That's amazing. Who could have foreseen such a thing? Look at that. It is a giant two layer wall backed by military also, along that, there are, there are tunnels, massive tunnels that have been built and massive underground barriers that are 20 meters deep to stop those tunnels from entering into the Sinai Desert, which is controlled by Egypt. The barrier is made of bombproof super strength steel, which cannot be cut or melted. So yeah, that, that's a, that's a thing that, that's a thing that I noticed as far as where the Muslim countries are. The answer is where they always are using the Palestinians as a tool for their own revenge while simultaneously denying them entry to their countries. Again, in 1948, 700,000 Palestinians were either leaving or expelled, unclear how many left preemptively because all Arab society had broken down in 47, 48, and how many were kicked out, but 700,000 Palestinians leave or are expelled, zero are taken in by the Arab countries. Zero. And you know what then happened? It turns out that Palestinians, who ended up in other areas, they were subsequently kicked out by Arab countries in 1970. Jordan expelled 20,000 Palestinians and killed 3000 of them. By the way, in 1982 during the Lebanon war, the p l o was completely expelled and ended up in Tunis in 1991. This, this is one that nobody remembers, but it did happen during the Gulf War, at the beginning of the Gulf War, there were 400,000 Palestinians. Were living in Kuwait, 400,000 during the course of the Gulf War, and after then, number one to zero, they were kicked out. They all went to Jordan. Nobody cares because how Arabs treat other Arabs, how Muslims treat other Muslims. We don't care about that. We don't care about that. What we care about is that if Jews are victimized by Muslim terror, then Jews have to basically let themselves be victimized. And the only good Jew is a submissive Jew. Seems to be the, the world's perspective on these particular issues. All too often, This of course, is why the world has decided immediately that the civilian casualties in Gaza brought about entirely by Hamas. It could be ended tomorrow by Hamas. All of that is on the Jews. Naftali Bennett, the Former prime minister of the state of Israel, he was on Sky News and he was confronted with this dumb argument and here was his answer. And what about those Palestinians in hospital who are on life support and babies and incubators whose life support and incubator will have to be turned off because the Israelis have cut the power to Gaza. Are you seriously keep on asking me about Palestinian civilians? What's, what's wrong with you? Have you not seen what happened? We're fighting Nazis. We don't target them. Now the world can come and bring them anything they want. If you wanna bring them electricity, I'm not gonna feed electricity or water to my enemies. If anyone else wants, that's fine. We're not responsible For that. This is the point, the point you, I wanna Tell you. No, no. Listen, listen To your voice and We've trying heard you enough. No, no, I understand. I'm trying to conversation here. Listen, this is my program. You're not, this is my show and I am asking the questions. You are raising your voice. And I've asked you, and we've already, we've already stop. Please let me finish. We've already distinguished between Hamas. I wanna tell you, You're trying to speak over. No, No. We are not. Shame on you. It's nothing About she, we're trying to have a conversation about a very serious situation here. And you are refusing to address this. 'cause you just jump over immediately and again and again. You Absolutely not Narrative. You're Incorrect. They're responsible because I can tell you that when the UK absolutely not. When Great Britain was fighting the Nazis during World War ii, no one asked what's going on in Dresden? Okay? Ha happens to be a fact. I don't see a lot of, I don't see a lot of the anchors on Sky News shedding great tears over, over all of that. 'cause it happened a long time ago. But I'll just point out at this point for, forget about World War iii. I mean, if you could look, look at World War II and the amount of civilian death that was incurred by the allies in the defeat of Nazi Germany and, and fascist Japan. You're talking, well, in excess of a million people who were killed, the firebombing of Dresden killed tens of thousands of people. The firebombing of Tokyo killed like hundreds of thousands of people, okay? That, that, that why they were military targets, they're military targets. And now we have the luxury of looking back and going, oh, well, you know, that was bad. Maybe we shouldn't have done that. Or maybe we shouldn't have gone so hard or when bombs were falling on London. That ain't the mentality. But put that aside, that was, that was 80 years ago. Let's, let's go more modern. During the Afghanistan war that the United States fought in Afghanistan, at least 50,000 civilians were killed at least 50,000, 50, not one, not two 50. And that was not an existential threat to the United States. A terrorism was a threat to the people of the United States. Hamas is an existential threat to Israel, especially because if Hamas were to emerge from this unscathed, Hezbollah would come in from the north. And everyone knows that if Hezbollah comes in, by the way, you're looking at nuclear war. That is the reality. We'll get to the international of this in just one second, because what we're attempting to avoid here by allowing Israel and I say we as the United States, what we are attempting to avoid here is a very small regional conflict developing into a global war, including nuclear weapons. I'll explain that in one second, but just to get back to the civilian point, the number of dead civilians in Iraq, due to the Iraq invasion of the United States, approximately 200,000, that isn't a country very far away. That is not next door to the United States. I put that aside, how many dead civilians are there in Libya, thanks to the Libyan bombing campaign undertaken by the Obama administration, at least 1,300. How many dead civilians were there in the ISIS war? At least 1,400. Okay, those are just wars involving the United States. When you look at dead civilians in the Middle East, you're talking at least 500,000 in Syria. In the last few years alone. No one seems to care. Hmm, weird. Why? I wonder why. Where's all the human rights outpouring? Where is, where's all the, whoa, the heid, the human cry by the anchors at Sky News? Where are they? Where are they? They're gone. They don't care. I notice they only care about one time. One time. There's only one time they care. And that is when Jews defend themselves. When Jews defend themselves, that's, that's when they get very uptight. That's when it's like, and it doesn't matter. Those Jews are taking more precautions to save civilians in Gaza than the ruling power of Gaza. It doesn't matter. It's the Jews' fault. The Jews have to go back to status quo anti, they have to, they have to lick their wounds, absorb their loss and weight for the next time that Jews get slaughtered in their beds. Because that's the, that's what Jews ought to do. That's what Jews ought to do. And in order to justify that, you have to come up with some sort of, of moral self-justification. The way a lot of people have done it is by involving themselves in propagandistic efforts to deceive themselves. As I said before, everyone wants to go back to their priors and going back to your priors, the moral equivalence prior, that was always stupid. It has been stupid for 40 years. The best way to do that is to just deny that what's happening is actually happening. And the best way to do that is to pretend that you're being lied to. So I wanna take a quick example. Yesterday I tweeted out a photo and I showed it on the show. It was a photo put out by the Prime Minister of Israel yesterday by the first responders in Kava Aza. It was a picture of a baby burned to death. It was hideous, horrible picture. I didn't wanna show it to you, but we have to know the nature of our enemies in the same way that we made a huge mistake as a country in the United States by not showing on a loop what happened on nine 11. When we barred that from our TVs, we blinded ourselves to what our enemies are, and then we're reminded of it. Every so often when, you know, they take over a country like Afghanistan and murder tens of thousands of people and blow up a bunch of American soldiers, then we're reminded of it. But we put ourselves to sleep. So people wanna go back to sleep So, what do they do? Yesterday the community noted my tweet and claimed that the photo was AI generated. The photo was obviously not AI generated. It clearly was not AI generated and went on community notes anyway. And people who are gullible and who wish to both sides this thing, because that's always the easiest position in any given conflict. It's very, very easy to say. Both sides. Both sides. The problem is that in this particular case, it's pretty obvious it ain't both sides. But if you want to both sides this thing, what you have to say is that the, the atrocities weren't so bad, the atrocities don't really matter. Should we really be concerned about the atrocities? And so the community noted, and obviously this is why again, the propaganda wars Hamas is fighting them right now. And there are a lot of gullible dupes out there who wanna believe. If you wanna believe, I can only attribute your, your desperation to believe in moral equivalence to one of two things. One, lack of understanding stupidity. Or two, you actually hate Jews and you just want, and, and you're perfectly fine with them being slaughtered for virtually everyone. I'm gonna say one But, there are a lot of twos out there. There are a lot of twos out there. Many more than I would've thought that is for damn sure. Okay? Meanwhile, what's going on here with the United States stationing battle carriers in the, in the Mediterranean Sea? I've seen a bunch of isolationists who are like, why is the United States even getting involved? Okay, let me explain this once again, for those who are slow, what the United States wishes to prevent is being involved in a war. The way you avoid being involved in war is by demonstrating that if somebody does get involved in war, you are going to destroy them. You are going to send them forward. In the case of the Uranian Mulls to the, to the Stone Age, that is how you get them to not do the war. You know what invites war in the Middle East? Weakness, you know what prevents war? Knowing that there will be a bomb that descends on your roof in five minutes if you start the thing. So the real risk for Israel in not finishing off Kamas right now is that this is taken as a sign of weakness, as it certainly would be by Hezbollah. Hezbollah is a far more dangerous terrorist group than Hamas. Hamas is a dangerous terrorist group. They just proved it by killing 1300 Jews. Hezbollah currently has over a hundred thousand highly sophisticated rockets aimed directly at the north of Israel. Estimates suggest that were Hezbollah to fire all of those rockets. We wouldn't be talking about 1300 dead Jews. You'd be talking about somewhere between 20 and 30,000 dead Jews. Day one, if Hezbollah gets in, Israel will have no choice but to unleash the Air Force. If they unleash the Air Force, they're not going to be worried at that point about civilian casualties at all. They're simply going to have to eviscerate the entire south of Lebanon and topple the regime in Lebanon that supports Hezbollah. If that happens, Iran undoubtedly gets in and so does Syria. If that happens, and Israel is now faced with a, with a full war in the North, combined with a war in the South, because they will not have defeated Kamas. That's the predicate. If Israel is forced to the wall, the possibility of nuclear exchange is extremely high. That is why it is very important that the United States provide the material aid to Israel and that they also dissuade Hezbollah from getting in. It's why Joe Biden has been warning Hezbollah not to get in. That's what's happening right now. So the United States, again, Joe Biden made a fool. He's a fool for having catered to the, to the Iranian regime for so long. It's what led to this. In many ways, it turns out that once again, showing your neck to the Iranians ends with you being dead, or your friends, mostly if you're the United States gets your friends killed. But it certainly got a lot of Americans killed in Iraq when we shut our neck to Iran. In any case, the United States and Qatar, which is a, which is an Iranian cutout, have now reached an agreement to prevent Iran from accessing $6 billion recently unfrozen as part of a prisoner swap. Now, the real question here is why the United States is not putting pressure on Qatar to turn over Hamas' leadership to an international court. Why, why the United States has that kinda leverage over Qatar. Perhaps they should be, you know, encouraging Hamas to Hamas leadership to be arrested. But they're not, they're not doing that. At the very least, That is a tacit admission that what's going on in Qatar. The, again, the entire Hamas leadership, they don't care what happens in the Gaza Strip, they're worth millions of dollars in. They're living in Qatar in like posh five star suites, as is very typical of Tarot group. And the, the great lie of these tarot groups is that the leadership deeply cares about the cause. Very often the leadership doesn't care about the cause. They just like getting rich and living in Pasha states, Yasar arfa, by the time he was done, was worth hundreds of millions of dollars that he had stolen from his own people. Mahmud Bas is a very rich man. The heads of Kamas again and living it up posh style in Qatar, far away from the human privation that they have caused in the Gaza Strip. But the bottom line here is that the interest of the United States has, no one wants a war. This straw man that, that everyone is itching for war. Wrong, like name, name the person, like name the people. I know Lindsey Graham says dumb words sometimes, but like aside from Lindsey Graham, can you name people who are like, yeah, let's go to war. Israel doesn't wanna war with Iran. No one, this, this bizarre isolationist notion, the straw man that it's you versus all the war mongers. No, it really, really is not, it really is not that. What it really is is people understanding the Middle East and understanding that if you do not throw people off the ball right now, it's gonna get way worse really quickly. Because again, Iran, if Iran gets involved, Iran has sponsorship from both China and Russia and things get really ugly really quickly. Yeah, well, this week has been just devastating, absolutely devastating on every level. It's been devastating for Westerners generally, or should be if they had a, a shred of, of class or an ounce of dignity. There are many millions of people who do. I'm, I'm not discounting any of those people. Obviously the, the outpouring of support from Americans for Israelis and for Jews generally has been amazing to watch. I've gotten calls from tons of, of Christian friends, calls from, from tons of people who are areligious, just people who are seeking to help. And God bless every one of you seriously, God bless you. And, and God bless people who are, who are willing to stand up for the lives of Jews. It is rarer than you would think. It's been obviously an unbelievably difficult time. I don't know a single person in my, in my, you know, in inner circle Jew or Nacho who hasn't been devastated by this, obviously in the Jewish community. It's, it's a singular, it's a singular tragedy. It's a reminder of our vulnerability. It's a reminder of how many people simply want dead Jews and are fine with dead Jews and cheer dead Jews. It's a reminder of all of those things. But I wanted to end the week on with, with on a, on a, a note of, of heroism. So every time there is human evil, that that exposes its fangs. There are many people who rush toward the fire, who rushed toward, and we saw this on nine 11, obviously people literally rushing toward the fire in this particular case. There are a bunch of stories that have emerged from Israel that, that are, that are worth retelling. These are people who are gonna have streets named after 'em someday. Amazing, amazing people. This one is from the New York Post, a retired major general for the Israeli defense. Forces raced to Rescue his son and his family who were hiding in their home near the gossip border as Kamas terrorists destroyed their village. No m t-Bone 62 recalled the moment he assured his son, journalist Amir t-Bone, he would save him and his family. When their small kibbutz of Nas fell under siege by Hamas on Saturday. He said, you have to be quiet, you have to be locked. He said, trust me, I will comment. This is my profession. Nobody, nobody can stop me over the span of 10 hours, he's 62. The determined father raced from Tel Aviv to his son's home, where he rescued several survivors of Hamas and fought against terrorists while on his way to save his family. So his son was in his home Saturday morning, heard the mortars flying overhead, and then he and his wife raced to, to hide. They have two young daughters, three and one. He said, when you live on the border with Gaza attacks like this happened from time to time, you sometimes wait an hour, you pack your bags. Meanwhile, when there's a break of a few minutes, you shove the kids in the car, you go toward a more secure place. But the break never came. Instead, Hamas infiltrated the kibbutz and he thought we're going to die. After being reassured his father would come for them. Amir said he tried to keep his daughters calm and quiet, telling them to trust their parents. I have to do the same thing right now. He said, I have to trust my father. He's a trustworthy man, no m t-bone and his wife and raced from Tel Aviv to Nagalos. That's about hour and a half away. They stopped along the way to help survivors of the Nova Music Festival massacre who were running away barefoot after delivering as many people as they could to a safe location away from the border. Tibone went back and arrived at the outskirts of Nala Os and he pulled out a pistol to fight the members of Kamas, many of whom were armed with automatic weapons, spotting injured soldiers. T-Bone, once again opted to put his personal mission on hold to help the wound to retreat to a hospital before going back to look for his son. By the way, that is, I mean, can you imagine that your own child is calling you from the bunker and asking for your help, and you literally stopped to help other people. On the way twice, he gave up his car to help the wounded. So then he, he enlisted the help of another retired general named Israel iv. The two men drove into NAOs and there they joined the I D F and fighting at the terrorists. Dione said, when I came to the area of my son's house, there were at least five bodies of terrorists and Israeli soldiers killed. And, and that's when grandfather arrived and saved everybody. It's an amazing, amazing story. But these stories are coming out fast and furious from Israel amazing people who, who were racing toward the fire. Young women. This isn't even talking about the people who were killed and, and there were many people, again, 1300 dead, many people who were murdered 18, 19 years old, rushing to the scene to try and save people to the, the nation of Israel is, is coming together. The, there have been at least three weddings that took place in rush circumstances on i d f basis, people who were scheduled to get married in the next couple of days when all this broke out. And instead they just decided that they were going to hold their wedding on an I D F base. Here is footage of, of one of those weddings. We can see, this is just a, they decided they were gonna put the wedding together on the spur of the moment. Again, this is a soldier who's gonna go into harm's way to protect his fellow Jews and fellow Israeli citizens. Jewish and not Jewish alike. There are weddings like this that were put together spur of the moment people dancing and singing in the wake of, of human evil. And you know, Kama says that the Jews love life. We love death. That is certainly true. Kamas loves death. The Jews love life. And Kamas is gonna get its wish already. Folks, in just a minute I'll be interviewing Rudy Rockman. He's an I D F soldier who's currently on the ground. He's one of the first soldiers to respond to the massacre that took place in Kfar Aza. To hear that interview, you need to become a Daily Wire Plus member. Head over to Daily Wire Plus right now and join.

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ep hamas publish wanna tell story story day u c l undergrad student go year muslim student association organization routinely support hama hezbollah ideologically student newspaper time call al taleb student newspaper joke run rename newspaper taliban make osama bin laden editorinchief rhetoric support hamas kbo not bone seek write stuff undergrad u c l daily bruin campus newspaper tell column run column write u c l daily bruin like daily bruin refuse outright run story number decade ago wife visit london happen box day know box day turn london basically close madam tsos wax museum well wife go inside wax museum usual bevy famous figure final room wax albert einstein take funny photo turn see young muslim woman man take picture einstein wax strangle einstein wax occur fact einstein pretty obviously jewish brush m good westerner know maybe guy hate general theory relativity time museum conclude wax adolf hitler not wax wife particularly want photo turn young muslim time get buddybuddy wax arm hitler pose smilingly hitler multiculturalism failure failure multiculturalism suggestion culture root quality beauty truth lie lie dangerous lie lead moral blindness ve discuss day lead atrocity murder baby rape woman kidnapping beheading lead death lead carnage multiculturalism not excuse evil abroad bring home multiculturalism suggest west united states uk france germany rest western world open border not racist believe culture morally equivalent culture equally meritorious reason deny somebody entry race make racist s reason multicultural advocate open border advocate logic demand difference migrant arrive gaza strip taiwan underneath culture ridiculous know ridiculous ve afraid decade country leadership recognize failure multiculturalism broadly speak leadership totally unable speak truth migration chastise medium medium pretend away disproportionate criminal activity middle eastern african migrant europe recognize truth awkward racist allow point race culture culture see shyness today world effect fundamentalist muslims rally favor hamas terror group slaughter jews western country join useful idiot radical left believe coalition dispossess help tear tale institution west talk recently leave winger mass murder jews know decolonization question people actually want country question people protest palestinian state protest israeli policy people protest favor terrorist government commit bad atrocity jews holocaust thousand protester west multiculturalism failure pretend watch right break london new york campus street paris breakdown social fabric west breakdown bring failure confidence value unwillingness declare superiority value feel community directly today kamas call global day rage middle war initiate decide slaughter civilian bed instead direct resource help ga civilian know normal government ve decide not matter instead call worldwide day jihad today refer day oxa flood accord breitbart middle east mem media research institute memory amazing work year largely ignore ve see lot show not play stuff literally day long watch kamas tv watch palestinian arab tv watch al jazeera arabic translate stuff online memory report hamas say quote declare friday friday alsa flood day general mobilization arab islamic world free people world day rally support offer aid participate actively day expose crime occupation isolate foil aggressive scheme date sacrifice heroism dedication earn honor defend kila muslims holy mosque ascension trust messenger free people world mobilize solidarity palestinian people support cause legitimate right freedom independence return selfdetermination ve call specifically protest suggest palestinians rise judea samaria socalled west bank ve call arab citizen israel attack state ve call arab surround country attack border israel protest call globe not protest ve call action right global day jihad result law enforcement have step patrol jewish house worship business accord n b c news local federal law enforcement agency united states step patrol jewish house worship jewish own business israeli diplomatic building tell worry jewish community united states extremely high lot people keep kid home school today worried global day jihad worry ve see mass protest huge number city right live south florida ve bunch protest lot protest devolve level chaos counter protestor attempt international sort stuff new thing usually day rage usually happen specifically middle east attempt broaden seriously n y p d take apparently n y p d cancel training officer training officer thursday entire force uniform patrol official police department say ll additional security large gathering cultural site house worship personnel report los angeles uniform thing get ugly lot major city apparently online threat specific credible point abundance caution school new york actively shut say credible threat not know expect jews believe point credible threat consider great slaughter jews holocaust lot jews worried today jewish school mention new york close worry worry reason know worry happen united states abroad quick example apparently accord odysseycom win year old woman attack year old male israeli student stick outside columbia universitys main library amid division campus israel hamas war police respond report assault morningside height outside little library pm wednesday attack occur victim confront woman watch tear flyer display name picture israelis kidnap hamas weekend victim refer anonymously fear safety include s suffer minor bruise apparently happen group hang poster people currently hold hostage suspect rip poster say suspect attack people put poster think s isolated incident think know sort stuff happen campus time fact broad scale university center green red alliance green red alliance m talk hamas green m talk far leave red alliance ongoing long time campus bleed regular politic sort daily life friend ami horowitz go east village new york remember gaza strip middle east east village new york ask people hamas justify murder jews bed here go attack israel justify ill cause effect oppression hamas moral high ground feel like hama defend year year oppression look live rumble feel like justified traumatize yeah lot friend kind israel feel like s not attack fully unjustified m palestine israeli government kind kind brutalize palestinians like understand try fight understand come understand fight ve entrap year year oppression year blockade need break prison s exactly yeah year genocide raping stuff yeah think right defend s m say outta people speak total hamas brutality unjustified rare s east village new york green red axis ride active united states active london active france fairfax county school board member name abra oish elect official fairfax county virginia actively oppose moment silence victim hamas massacre couple night ago simple aggressor attack family state seek vengeance sympathize humanize relate look like bias guide obscure root violence century human history teach escalation happen problem ignore reality deny voice censor narrative dominate world stage way classroom student favor call peace unwilling peace require old civil right adage set go justice peace justice peace accord elect official fairfax virginia om require jewish baby slaughter crib honestly need context need nuance lot evil people believe lot evil thing live west west open wide multicultural nonsense michigan democrats day refuse vote moment silence israeli victim know huge percentage michigan democrat support come michigan muslim community community example dearborn hold mass rally favor hamas pa course past couple day speaker recognize representative schutte thank madam speaker discharge committee government operation consideration hr request record roll vote representative shudi move discharge resolution demand support demand support question discharge favor aye oppose nay resolution discharge speaker recognize majority floor leader aash speaker voting house adjourn standard aurn tuesday october objection order house ease s right michigan house dominate democrat point refuse moment silence israeli victim jewish victim bad massacre past year jews second wanna s happen campus obviously create enormous uncertainty economic sphere uncertainty economic sphere go dominate couple year long way actually hedge betts sort stuff look birch gold birch gold help diversify asset like precious metal birch gold today preserve saving tax shelter retirement account ve customer birch gold group year expert precious metal incredibly easy customer r k previous employer s gather dust birch gold ll help convert r gold will not pay penny pocket ll simply convert k s sit bank physical gold not tamper text bend birch gold send free infokit gold digital currency reality go to glad physical fall economic stagnation expect reality go to want physical gold text bend claim free infokit gold today okay americas campus course sort chief rallying point radical muslim activity united states generalized left wing activity united states far green red axis hamas communist hamas far leave axis go form alliance obviously go campus s precisely see footage pour protester university demonstrate moral evil impossible start columbia here protester columbia sea free palestine free shout river sea palestine free slogan course genocidal slogan mean destroy literally jew region ve see hamas know exactly mean mean scale slaughter jews americans presumably shout middle columbia university campus remember campus deeply worried microaggression boy boy girl girl microaggresse point ll discipline campus office shout river sea palestine free like directly week jews murder bed s s know complex moral nuance multiculturalism gang different culture different type thinking explain understand thing nuanced cycle violence complex feel people revert prior say couple day ago people revelation politic hot moment moment clarity immediately revert prior feel happen real time shock effect people protest favor people murder burn baby shock effect wear away go feel happen go western p prior everyone reasonable conversation ev culture basically equivalent want free true true people shout river sea palestine free people friend west enemy west people hate west hate israel people fully willing backing murderous genocidal antijewish group kind like brush not wanna not wanna blinder right feel happen real time feel happen people want prior true prior comfort prior antisemitism s vestige past holocaust not matter see holocaust level violence jews israel jews kill jews not matter go to recontextualize pretend away reason happen go to manufacture reason happen go jews bad nazi face s go feel happen real time look specter thousand m talk thousand people united states rally favor group bad bad alqaeda somewhat disquiet instant question prior let country culture equivalent culture culture abjectly manifestly inferior thing inferior race race mean clear exactly boundary race race genetic aspect facial structure maybe point origin maybe skin color relevant come human interpersonal relation thing matter culture culture course act way think environmentally imbibe not come race distinction crucial distinction important say certain culture bad culture simply say way thought way acting bad way thought way acting obviously true idiot u c l mass protest people scream intifada ada intifada mean uprise palestinians murder jews obviously alright pretty massive rally alma mater folk kid s get ready college think seriously wish send garbage indoctrination center instead maybe know job look like u c l yesterday way people wear mask know wear mask cause afraid covid reason wear mask not wish identify not wish identify cause know cause evil particularly true member radical muslim community say stuff lot kind fellow traveler liberal try demonstrate bonafide way see bunch moron street rally perverse organization black life matter order demonstrate bonafide fellow liberal friend see lot campus red green red alliance people truly commit one cover face protest college campus second get to tell phone coverage matter lot day ve spend literally moment phone phone coverage trust pure talk know pure talk happen great company speak core value align value daily wire veteran give protect nation pure talk understand sacrifice ve set ambitious goal eliminate million military debt veteran day not need help switch pure talk lightning fast g network ll donate portion new order noble clause real difference choose superior cell phone service pure talk plan start buck month offer unlimited talk text datum mobile hotspot pure talk dot com slash shapiro switch today let rally unwavering support american veteran visit pure talk dot com slash shapiro switch pure talk today happen amazing coverage reason love pure talk m sure s week life ve phone week pure talk make happen head pure talk dot com slash shapiro switch pure talk today right share value american way okay americas college campus ve dominate fool dominate incredibly dangerous people people share value american value here protest george mason university here look like get hang glider tank get hang glider glory resistance fighter glory resistance fighter case not hear chant chant ve get tank ve get hang glider glory resistance fighter reference kamas member jet resist hang glider e d m music festival mow nearly people george mason university openly cheer pretend pretend want people believe people believe not believe amazing thing arrogance west right loud face like nah not believe not believe ulterior motive kamasa iss like wanna murder jews media like want people shout fate glory resistance fighter mow dance festival attendee everybodys like nah want complexity middle east not hmm lot chin stroke day lot people think oh gosh know conflict long history listen history youtube page entire minute explanation history go to episode weekend explain myth s murder jews favor murder jews like yes like not believe m sorry like wanna murder jews think want want well economic way life like want well economic way life maybe ve pursue focus notice s put focus way notice dramatic lack palestinian advocate rush microphone condemn notice little bit like amazing united states sort horrific shooting commit somebody s vaguely associate political clause everybody vaguely associate political clause come condemn course wanna clear dissociate evil see come like man hamas group truly evil mean associate truly evil answer answer cause territorial dispute israel away land absent destruction people not way know entail mean death jew area talk quote unquote israeli apartheid let point quick fact israel population arab know notice gazas population jewish palestinian rural area west bank jewish jordan jewish egypt jewish iran effectively speak jewish tiny jewish population syria jewish lebanon jewish saudi arabia jewish weird weird strange work strange not worry israel problem right face right hide ball astonishing ll cease astonishing right right face everybody media go not protest continue country aristo arizona state university big protest yesterday favor kamas look size protest tell question people march favor kamas want work company question choose choose support kamas pretty good barrier entry people know earn solid living chase manhattan bank university washington mass pro kamas protest look like land peace land demand land antifa join palestinian advocate course palestinian hamas advocate remember talk hamas separable movement movement not try separate hama notice thing notice hear single hama turn hostage people bueller course not care perfectly happy jewish hostage murder tunnel not care not shit not not care ll come god civilian die know israel say turn water power israel say way turn hostage everybody go turn water power notice s conditional statement turn hostage turn water power like unreasonable demand hold baby woman holocaust survivor way hold dozen americans right like unre protestor say hamas wanna turn people protestor acknowledge hama stop turn legit government israel want year hand entire gaza strip ve happen civilian death hand course demand govern body gaza strip kamas protect civilian course goal destruction israel not run israel murder civilian ll attempt relieve international legitimacy israel plant baby directly military target s precisely right campus suppose place safety openness diversity come jewish student feel know little threaten people defend mass murder jews course s jewish student university washington witness pro hamas rally tell authority know s way go listen free speech free speech free speech obtain campus ve ban half campus try speak thing like economic place use wrong pronoun gulag jews murder mass justified jew get upset s obviously know free speech s s free speech bone kick interesting interesting standard kick minute jews victim want people dead allow allow put want dead remember micro jews live fear slaughter advocate come campus rally slaughterer afraid world microaggression notice certain microaggression guy care macroaggression not care question support kamas socalled moderate palestinian community propalestinian community answer m look people wildly attempt di dissociate hamas point like m go to example s palestinian american activist human right attorney name nora kott s katie tur medium way desperately search palestinian advocate dissociate hamas hamas utterly unjustified garbage organization terror organization not find anybody not find anybody know cause turn folk not think like not think like not think bad not think inarguably bad kill baby not not know tell say face m say say time believe characterize say say moderate palestinian american activist human right attorney human right attorney worry deeply legitimacy hamas worry deeply hamas provoke nora kott say israel responsible nora image ve see past day inside gaza image happen israeli citizen gut wrench difficult watch make feel like intractability fight ve study happen thank katie gut wrench image gut wrench image preventable image preventable mass atrocity condition large crime condition sustain violence crime apartheid apartheid system israel oversee united states primary supporter military financial diplomatic support okay way nora kott human right attorney s favor human right say kamasa political movement s explain political movement guy terror group murder civilian aim rocket baby murder child bed rape woman political movement not moderate moderate moderate guy honestly israel search moderate like year israel want govern million palestinians gaza strip not want govern strongly hand fucking terrorist group israel want strongly govern area like janine hand yassar arafat actual terrorist actively shoot jews like s not wanna govern way israel ve mention israel try turn gaza trip egypt know israel egypt say like not want mind try turn place like janine jordanian control jordanian like kid way not worry hamas legit political group moderate turn crap peace process require peace partner peace partner go to wish cast way peace partner be not go to work moderate moderate hamas political movement unity government think hama stay stay issue alternative say decimate hama remind viewer hamas political movement comprise palestinians believe freedom struggle forward merely sensational image member hamas see recently right want clear people monstrous emerge underground af want terrorize israelis young man grow grow siege past year subject large scale offensive bomb home target medic hospital water supply refuse remember monster people rape woman kidnap baby kill monster say say way pre context free insanity s say know ve victim ground hey pray tell precede ground incursion israel fight aerial bombardment israel use god precede oh thousand rocket fall israeli city gall people medium buyin not wanna believe not believe refuse believe undermine entire worldview people culture inferior undermine entire world m sorry culture call hamas freedom fighter talk victimization people murder baby crib inferior culture not wrong wrong media thing wrong medium hate culture deal idea superior inferior culture ve surrender surrender lose way problem medium problem internationally number mass protest see world favor hamas truly terrify westerner actually care know western value moment accord recent report plan parenthood continue rake billion taxpayer funding private contribution prolife organization win heart mind clientele plan parenthood continue rake big buck number abortion perform year year slowly decrease short win fight end abortion long way partner preborn large provider free ultrasound united states preborn figure let woman baby ultrasound listen heartbeat babys chance life double preborn operate slim budget money go save baby rescue baby single day government funding need help donation buck cover free ultrasound expectant mom see life grow inside shoe twice likely choose life consider make small donation tax deductible gift directly save baby lifestyle pound keyword baby pound baby check right preborncom slash ben amazing thing mother baby single day preborncom slash ben dial pound keyword baby okay problem export terrorism terrorist support united states obviously happen country world massive pro terrorism protest paris yesterday here look like look size look size protest look size number people love hama love baby murder look astonishing say loud quiet part loud west oblig question west obligation absorb people cheer murder baby question like obligation west people culture say hama totally fine broad struggle obligation west feel west obligation ask question not people house seriously welcome em want em em em house em em apartment get extra bedroom s problem multicultural world underneath hamas supporter vienna look size hamas support s police officer surround mass protest favor hamas dancing cheer s austria gang s s gaza city aman austria austria hey london know london problem term danger jews here late bro small protest recent day yeah know carry smoke palestinian flag rest aftermath attack jews s okay parcel group people group field hamas supporter play sucker game sucker game fool ll revert prior sucker game probably west probably west sort coone value immediately shift focus s go gaza s fine focus go gaza tremendous human suffering gaza bit hamas fault single hamas fault ill slow understand ill real slow small word israel abandon gaza strip hama rule gaza strip hamas control gaza strip hamas hold hostage hamas control civilian civilian live rule hamas government gaza strip civilian hamas responsibility war crime civilian military target war crime shield rocket child war crime hold hostage war crime hostage war zone try prevent bombing war crime ounce blood spill building take ugly photo gaza hamas simple duality unclear explain flaw particular thinking m wait naturally hamas advocate ve decide degree international law exciting alexander ocasiocortez brilliant expositor international law bartender say collect s talk cutoff water power gaza strip israeli energy minister cat say electrical switch turn water hydrant open fuel truck enter israeli abe return home like conditional statement point o c know hold like bunch americans abha probably rape torture probably dead call return hostage course course instead s say america draw line israelis israelis real war crime israel fight kamas yeah s genius folk rise star democratic party slow clap eu genius decide face party responsibility stability security region mean able support support yes israel defensive capacity right ability support israel context oh maybe mean like defense oh united states responsibility ensure accountability human right prevent ethnic cleansing palestinians ensure horror happen name victim want tragedy justify violence injustice s go to speak behalf dead jews kaza s go to speak behalf dead jews ot s go to speak behalf grandparent watch grandchild murder cold blood s go to speak behalf want want democrat defend want explain mean want explain want explain mean mean say vict not want victim not want victimhood justify speak behalf dead body kfa beri s kibbutz beri s s speak behalf let explain s international law work geneva convention article party conflict hand protect person responsible treatment accord agent irrespective individual responsibility incur hamma word not read not speak legal mean govern party civilian military target fault article presence protect person civilian render certain point area immune military operation precisely leftwe moron claim today basically murder jews plus hide child mean immunity s claim today s formula murder jews plus hide gazen civilian immune attempt claim geneva convention prisoner war time send detain area expose fire combat zone presence render certain point area immune military operation sound familiar like not hostage line fire exactly ve c c statute utilize presence civilian protect person render certain point area military force immune military operation constitute war crime international armed conflict additional protocol article say party conflict shall direct movement civilian population individual civilian order attempt shield military objective attack shield military operation notice s precisely hamas israel currently tell people leave hamas currently tell stay use human shield accord geneva convention article destruction occupy power real personal property belong individually collectively private person prohibit destruction render absolutely necessary military operation happen right mean clear international law country ability defend clear international law human right violator person station baby rocket not not o c say not not say speak victim leave hamas word word way garbage ethnic cleansing talking point like bunk like clean real fast talking point palestinian palestinian population year establishment state israel region region gaza israel today judean samaria million population today particular area gaza strip million judea samaria socalled west bank million inside israel million word area million palestinians live today million living area bad job ethnic cleansing ve notice know notice number jews live iraq ten thousand jews live iraq live zero jews live iran hundred thousand know live zero jews live jordan egypt place answer lot live zero know happen historically speak state israel tiny state israel barely military take jews kick arab country muslim country israel take know arab refugee population refugee camp leave year year jake tapper yesterday point know notice muslim country help god civilian oh s shock s shock ve read know book here jake tapper yesterday innocent palestinians yeah right woman child right elderly figure egypt want open raffa cross refuse not right egypt jordan mean qatar u e saudi arabia country prepare talk care palestinians help right help palestinians escape help okay stop bombing help gaza like thrive society sort thing money way ve hear yeah yeah usually know generally sideline pretty myopically think plus know like hama away take egypt look map egypt right southern rafa crossing right know egypt say way way hell fact lemme picture egypt gaza border egypt gaza border look like think s terrible terror separation wall breach hamas s s terrible m go wall look like gaza egypt oh look layer giant wall s amazing foresee thing look giant layer wall back military tunnel massive tunnel build massive underground barrier meter deep stop tunnel enter sinai desert control egypt barrier bombproof super strength steel cut melt yeah s s thing s thing notice far muslim country answer palestinians tool revenge simultaneously deny entry country palestinians leave expel unclear leave preemptively arab society break kick palestinians leave expel zero take arab country zero know happen turn palestinians end area subsequently kick arab country jordan expel palestinians kill way lebanon war p l o completely expel end tuni remember happen gulf war beginning gulf war palestinians live kuwait course gulf war number zero kick go jordan care arab treat arab muslim treat muslim not care not care care jews victimize muslim terror jews basically let victimize good jew submissive jew world perspective particular issue course world decide immediately civilian casualty gaza bring entirely hamas end tomorrow hamas jews naftali bennett prime minister state israel sky news confront dumb argument answer palestinians hospital life support baby incubator life support incubator turn israelis cut power gaza seriously ask palestinian civilian s s wrong see happen fight nazi not target world come bring want wanna bring electricity m go to feed electricity water enemy want s fine responsible point point wanna tell listen listen voice ve trying hear understand m try conversation listen program ask question raise voice ve ask ve ve stop let finish ve distinguish hamas wanna tell try speak shame try conversation situation refuse address cause jump immediately absolutely narrative incorrect responsible tell uk absolutely great britain fight nazi world war ii ask s go dresden okay ha happen fact not lot not lot anchor sky news shed great tear cause happen long time ago ill point point forget world war iii mean look look world war ii civilian death incur ally defeat nazi germany fascist japan talk excess million people kill firebombing dresden kill ten thousand people firebombing tokyo kill like hundred thousand people okay military target military target luxury look go oh know bad maybe not maybe not go hard bomb fall london be not mentality aside year ago let let modern afghanistan war united states fight afghanistan civilian kill existential threat united states terrorism threat people united states hamas existential threat israel especially hama emerge unscathed hezbollah come north know hezbollah come way look nuclear war reality international second attempt avoid allow israel united states attempt avoid small regional conflict develop global war include nuclear weapon ill explain second civilian point number dead civilian iraq iraq invasion united states approximately not country far away door united states aside dead civilian libya thank libyan bombing campaign undertake obama administration dead civilian isis war okay war involve united states look dead civilian middle east talk syria year care hmm weird wonder s human right outpoure s whoa heid human cry anchor sky news go not care notice care time time s time care jews defend jews defend s s uptight s like not matter jews take precaution save civilian gaza rule power gaza not matter jews fault jews status quo anti lick wound absorb loss weight time jews slaughter bed s s jews ought s jews ought order justify come sort moral selfjustification way lot people involve propagandistic effort deceive say want prior go prior moral equivalence prior stupid stupid year good way deny s happen actually happen good way pretend lie wanna quick example yesterday tweet photo show photo prime minister israel yesterday responder kava aza picture baby burn death hideous horrible picture not wanna know nature enemy way huge mistake country united states show loop happen bar tv blind enemy remind know country like afghanistan murder ten thousand people blow bunch american soldier remind sleep people wanna sleep yesterday community note tweet claim photo ai generate photo obviously ai generate clearly ai generate go community note people gullible wish side thing s easy position give conflict easy side side problem particular case pretty obvious be not side want side thing atrocity not bad atrocity not matter concerned atrocity community note obviously propaganda war hamas fight right lot gullible dupe wanna believe wanna believe attribute desperation believe moral equivalence thing lack understand stupidity actually hate jews want perfectly fine slaughter virtually m go to lot twos lot twos ve think damn sure okay s go united states station battle carrier mediterranean sea ve see bunch isolationist like united states getting involve okay let explain slow united states wish prevent involve war way avoid involve war demonstrate somebody involve war go destroy go send forward case uranian mull stone age war know invite war middle east weakness know prevent war know bomb descend roof minute start thing real risk israel finish kamas right take sign weakness certainly hezbollah hezbollah far dangerous terrorist group hamas hamas dangerous terrorist group prove kill jews hezbollah currently thousand highly sophisticated rocket aim directly north israel estimate suggest hezbollah fire rocket not talk dead jews d talk dead jews day hezbollah get israel choice unleash air force unleash air force go worry point civilian casualty simply go eviscerate entire south lebanon topple regime lebanon support hezbollah happen iran undoubtedly get syria happen israel face war north combine war south defeat kamas s predicate israel force wall possibility nuclear exchange extremely high important united states provide material aid israel dissuade hezbollah get joe biden warn hezbollah s s happen right united states joe biden fool s fool having cater iranian regime long lead way turn show neck iranians end dead friend united states get friend kill certainly get lot americans kill iraq shut neck iran case united states qatar iranian cutout reach agreement prevent iran access billion recently unfrozen prisoner swap real question united states put pressure qatar turn hamas leadership international court united states kinda leverage qatar know encourage hamas hamas leadership arrest tacit admission s go qatar entire hamas leadership not care happen gaza strip worth million dollar live qatar like posh star suite typical tarot group great lie tarot group leadership deeply care cause leadership not care cause like get rich live pasha states yasar arfa time worth hundred million dollar steal people mahmud bas rich man head kamas live posh style qatar far away human privation cause gaza strip line interest united states want war straw man itch war wrong like person like people know lindsey graham say dumb word like aside lindsey graham people like yeah let war israel not wanna war iran bizarre isolationist notion straw man versus war monger people understand middle east understanding throw people ball right go to way bad quickly iran iran get involve iran sponsorship china russia thing ugly quickly yeah week devastating absolutely devastating level devastating westerner generally shred class ounce dignity million people m m discount people obviously outpouring support americans israelis jews generally amazing watch ve get call ton christian friend call ton people areligious people seek help god bless seriously god bless god bless people willing stand life jews rare think obviously unbelievably difficult time not know single person know inner circle jew nacho not devastate obviously jewish community singular singular tragedy reminder vulnerability reminder people simply want dead jews fine dead jews cheer dead jews reminder thing want end week note heroism time human evil expose fang people rush fire rush see obviously people literally rush fire particular case bunch story emerge israel worth retell people go to street name em someday amazing amazing people new york post retired major general israeli defense force race rescue son family hide home near gossip border kamas terrorist destroy village m tbone recall moment assure son journalist amir tbone save family small kibbutz nas fall siege hamas saturday say quiet lock say trust comment profession stop span hour s determined father race tel aviv son home rescue survivor hamas fight terrorist way save family son home saturday morning hear mortar fly overhead wife race hide young daughter say live border gaza attack like happen time time wait hour pack bag s break minute shove kid car secure place break come instead hamas infiltrate kibbutz think go die reassure father come amir say try daughter calm quiet tell trust parent thing right say trust father s trustworthy man m tbone wife race tel aviv nagalos s hour half away stop way help survivor nova music festival massacre run away barefoot deliver people safe location away border tibone go arrive outskirt nala os pull pistol fight member kamas arm automatic weapon spot injure soldier tbone opt personal mission hold help wound retreat hospital go look son way mean imagine child call bunker ask help literally stop help people way twice give car help wounded enlist help retire general name israel iv man drive naos join d f fight terrorist dione say come area son house body terrorist israeli soldier kill s grandfather arrive save everybody amazing amazing story story come fast furious israel amazing people race fire young woman not talk people kill people dead people murder year old rushing scene try save people nation israel come wedding take place rush circumstance d f basis people schedule marry couple day break instead decide go hold wedding d f base footage wedding decide go to wedding spur moment soldier s go to harm way protect fellow jews fellow israeli citizen jewish jewish alike wedding like spur moment people dance singe wake human evil know kama say jews love life love death certainly true kamas love death jews love life kamas go to wish folk minute ill interview rudy rockman s d f soldier s currently ground s soldier respond massacre take place kfar aza hear interview need daily wire plus member head daily wire plus right join

This bill modifies provisions relating to the liability of a provider or user of an interactive computer service (e.g., a social media company) for material placed on its platform by another information content provider. Under current law, a provider or user of an interactive computer service is not considered the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. The bill specifies that a provider or user of an interactive computer service may still be treated as a distributor of such information.

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bill modify provision relate liability provider user interactive computer service eg social medium company material place platform information content provider current law provider user interactive computer service consider publisher speaker information provide information content provider bill specify provider user interactive computer service treat distributor information

Speeches, etc. The Committee consisted of the following Members: Mr. John Brewis (in the Chair) Armstrong , Mr. Ernest (Durham, North-West) Bacon , Miss Alice (Minister of State, Department of Education and Science) Boyle , Sir Edward (Birmingham, Handsworth) Evans , Mr. Fred (Caerphilly) Eyre , Mr. Reginald (Birmingham, Hall Green) Hill , Mr. J. E. B. (Norfolk, South) Jones , Mr. J. Idwal (Wrexham) Lane , Mr. David (Cambridge) Lewis , Mr. Kenneth (Rutland and Stamford) [column 2] Mahon , Mr. Simon (Bootle) Maude , Mr. Angus (Stratford-on-Avon) Montgomery , Mr. Fergus (Brierley Hill) Newens , Mr. Stan (Epping) Oakes , Mr. Gordon (Bolton, West) Price , Mr. Christopher (Birmingham, Perry Barr) Price , Mr. William (Rugby) Short , Mr. Edward (Secretary of State for Education and Science) Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret (Finchley) van Straubenzee , Mr. W. R. (Wokingham) Woof , Mr. Robert (Blaydon) Mr. K. A. Bradshaw, Committee Clerk Tuesday, 10th March, 1970 [Mr. John Brewis in the Chair] 10.30 a.m. The Chairman I should like to apologise to hon. Members that we are meeting today in this room. I hope that in future we shall be able to make other arrangements. Question proposed, Mrs. Margaret Thatcher Obviously we have no objection to the sittings Motion, but we express the hope that we shall not be in this room for any longer than this morning. It is extremely difficult for us to be so far from the Library and from the usual facilities of the House. We shall protest vigorously at our next sitting if the hope which you have expressed, Mr. Brewis, is not fulfilled. The Chairman I shall be ready for protests at our next sitting. Question put and agreed to. The Chairman Before calling the first Amendment, I call attention to the fact that adequate notice of Amendments should be given. As a general rule. I do not intend to call manuscript Amendments. A sheet giving the proposed groupings of Amendments is on the Table if any hon. Members want it. Amendment No. 1— Clause 1, page 1, line 5, at beginning insert: Mrs. Thatcher I beg to move Amendment No. 2, in page 1, line 5, to leave out subsection (1) and insert: We should be happy if the following Amendments were discussed at the same time: Amendment No. 3, page 1, leave out lines 5 and 6. Amendment No. 4, page 1, line 7, leave out from “authority” to “shall” in line 9. Amendment No. 6, page 1, line 10, after “section)” , insert Amendment No. 33, page 1, line 10, leave out “have regard to the need for securing” and insert “secure by 1st September 1975” . Amendment No. 7, page 1, line 10, leave out second “the” and insert “any” . Amendment No. 8, page 1, line 10, leave out “need for securing” and insert “Secretary of State's intention” . Amendment No. 9, page 1, line 11, at beginning, insert “in their area” . Amendment No. 10, page 1, line 11, leave out “secondary education is provided only” and insert “there is provision for secondary education” . Amendment No. 11, page 1, line 11, leave out “is” and insert “shall be” . Amendment No. 12, page 1, line 13, leave out “such selection” insert: “selection by reference to ability or aptitude” . Amendment No. 34, page 1, line 13, at end insert “at any fixed age” . Amendment No. 13, page 1, line 13, at end insert: However, we hope that we shall be able to have a Division more than once, on exactly which ones will depend on the reply of the Edward ShortSecretary of State. Will that be in order, Mr. Brewis? The Chairman Yes. Mrs. Thatcher The Amendments are designed to elicit the right hon. [column 5]Gentleman's intention on subsection (1) and how far he thinks the subsection gives effect to his intention. Before the Bill was published, the right hon. Gentleman made a speech which was reported in the Teacher on 10th October, 1969. It was headlined, “Bill may not stop selection” , and the right hon. Gentleman is reported to have said: That would seem to indicate that the the proper way to vary Section 8 of the 1944 Act would be by a major Bill amending the 1944 Act, and that in any event the draftsman would be in difficulty in a small Bill. That difficulty is apparent from the drafting in front of us. My. right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Handsworth ( Sir E. Boyle) said on Second Reading, as reported in c. 1533 of the Official Report, that there could well be a conflict between Section 8 of the 1944 Act and the apparent instruction which is given in Clause 1(1). Section 8 of the 1944 Act was drafted by reference to laying on the local authority a duty to secure certain objectives without specifying in detail the way in which those objectives should be achieved. In many ways it was drafting and legislation way ahead of its time, because the theory of management by objectives is comparatively new. The Section was the forerunner of education management by objectives. It is interesting that when everyone else is moving towards managements by objectives the Minister is apparently moving to management by much more minute direction. Section 8, which appears to be the overriding Section, though none of us is quite sure in view of Clause 1(1), has several parts. In its first subsection it specifies the duty of the local education authority Then it continues with this phrase: That Section has been interpreted comparatively widely and was amended when the Enfield case raised one or two questions about the character of a school. The right hon. Gentleman will have occasion to remember that in that judgement a number of things were said about what constitutes the fundamental character of a school. The word “their” was thought to be rather narrower than most of us would have taken it to mean in its natural context. Whatever the decision, the definition of the word “character” was even further narrowed by the Education Act, 1968, but as it stands this provision will permit a wide variety of methods of achieving the objective of providing in view of the different ages, abilities and aptitudes of the pupils. It can be provided in different schools for the same age group. That variety of instruction can be provided in theory within one school or within a number of schools, each of which has a similar intake. In other words, it can be provided by a tripartite system, a bipartite system, or by a totally comprehensive system. As I understand it, the Minister is offering an instruction on how local authorities shall construe their duties under Section 8, but it already offers a number of instructions in subsection (2). Some of the language is similar to the language the right hon. Gentleman uses and yet he has not offered the instruction by the simple method in our first Amendment, by adding another paragraph to subsection (2), which says that in fulfilling its duties a local education authority shall, in particular, have regard to the need for securing that primary and secondary education are provided in separate schools; there is another need for the provision of nursery schools; there is a third need for pupils suffering from any disability of mind or body; and there is one expediency. Therefore, we must attempt to construe what the Minister is trying to do in Clause 1(1) by reference to the language already used in the governing 1944 Act. There is some doubt whether the words “have regard to the need” are effective in doing what the Minister wishes to be done. For example, one of the needs to which the [column 7]local authority is to have regard is for securing the provision of nursery education. That need has been observed in the breach, and I imagine that the Minister has failed to add a paragraph (e) to sub-section (2) because he thinks that if he did it in that way that need could also be observed in the breach—that is to say, it would not be a binding instruction. It is with the object of securing the Minister's views on that instruction that we have tabled our first Amendment. It would make more drafting sense to do it in that way. Whether it would be effective to do what the Minister wants, I doubt. Whether the method he has chosen will be effective in doing what he wants, I also doubt. I return to the overriding Section, which tells local authorities that they must offer the different ages, abilities and aptitudes. That instruction and training can be provided in a system of grammar and secondary modern schools. It can also be provided, and is provided now in some areas, in a system which is totally comprehensive. I come to the question which was put from this side on Second Reading: what happens if the overriding instruction that the training must be sufficient for ages, abilities and aptitudes cannot in some areas be provided in a totally comprehensive system because the buildings and characteristics of the area will not yield to that arrangement? Is the local authority then to observe the duties laid upon it in Section 8, or is it to observe the apparent instruction in subsection (1) of Clause 1? Again, with a view to ascertaining this, some of my hon. Friends have tabled Amendment No. 13, which provides that in cases of doubt the provisions of Section 8(1) shall be overriding. Without that Amendment, there is substantial doubt about the precise meaning of what the Minister says he is doing in Clause 1(1). May I illustrate that by referring to a particular case? The Bournemouth case has had the most publicity. According to the Minister, under subsection (1), the local education authority [column 8]on selection by ability or aptitude. Taking an area such as Bournemouth, what does “have regard to the need” mean? There is not a need on educational grounds. Bournemouth happens to be a unique scheme, as the right hon. Gentleman knows. It was published in detail in a lecture given in Londonderry on 26th April, 1969, in which the Chief Education Officer set out the results it has achieved. He embarked on the scheme on the basis that the traditional methods of selection operated in the past had been deficient and had not given maximum educational opportunity to all pupils. He thought that there had been a great deal of wastage through inefficient secondary education. Therefore, in drawing up his scheme under the 1944 Act, he decided that the only way to avoid the wastage was to ensure that every boy and girl would, on transfer at 11, be in a school where a course leading to O level G.C.E. would be taken whenever the ability to do so made itself manifest, with opportunity to go on to A levels. He therefore had a system of grammar schools and bilateral schools—schools he called bilateral which some of us would call secondary modern—but in that second group every child could take an O level course, going on to an A level course. Over the years he adopted a very special method of selection based on a quota system which did not depend in any way on examinations. He described it as follows: “(a) Verbal reasoning tests are set throughout the primary schools at various stages as part of routine school records and guidance. (b) The scores of tests taken at 9, 10, 11 are sent in to me, and the three scores for each pupil are aggregated on the computer which puts the totals in order of size, selects the top 16%;, and shows how many from each school reach scores coming within the 16%; list. That number, not the named children, becomes the measure of ability of the school, and is called its quota. (c) Each primary school is told it may nominate up to that number of children for allocation to grammar schools and must form a panel of staff in their school who have taught the pupils at any time during their primary school career, to examine school records and name the individual children for admission to grammar schools. (d) The Primary school is also told it may nominate without limit other children for G.C.E. classes in the secondary modern schools, now named bilateral.” So he has a very specialised system of [column 9]selection without any examinations. It would appear that it works and gives first class educational opportunity to all pupils. 10.45 a.m. What about the parents? He says that in the first year in which the scheme operated he was a little worried about their reaction; but in the first year only seven out of 1,600 parents protested about their children not being allocated to a grammar school, while four refused places in grammar schools, preferring places in G.C.E. courses in the bilateral schools. In the second year only four parents protested, and in the third year only one. So here we have a system with no 11-plus examination, and maximum educational opportunity, which is very satisfactory to the parents. What about the educational results? In the lecture the chief educational officer went into some of them and gave the success record per 1,000 pupils under his system compared with the average for the United Kingdom. The average for all county boroughs of pupils going to universities was 27.4, while his system gave 42.3. Those going to other comparable institutions from all county boroughs averaged 17.9, and for Bournemouth the figure was 59.5. The total figure for county boroughs was 45.3 and for Bournemouth 101.8. It would also seem that the O and A level courses show extremely good results in Bournemouth. Where is the need for that education authority to change its system? It is instructed in the Minister's direction to “have regard to the need,” but there is no educational need. No need has been displayed by the electors of Bournemouth. There is a preamble to the provision, but the direction is: The Minister of State, Department of Education and Science (Miss Alice Bacon) It is not “need” full stop. Mrs. Thatcher It says that the local education authority But there is not a need, though there may be an opinion. It would seem that the right hon. Gentleman believes that the Clause gives a specific instruction, but if he says: [column 10]it does not stop there. It does not stop there in Section 8(2) of the 1944 Education Act. There are several needs specified there, but they have not all been met. If the Minister thinks that he has achieved everything he has set out to do in directing the specific institutions, what will happen in an area where the variety of instruction and training cannot be provided in a totally comprehensive system because of the inadequacy of the buildings or other local reasons? There are a number of other Amendments. I should like to refer especially to Amendment No. 10, by which we wish to remove the phrase “secondary education is provided only” and substitute This shows one of the basic differences between us. Many of us are reasonably happy that all parents should have a choice between sending their child to a comprehensive school or sending the child either to a direct grant school or to a school like those in the Bournemouth system, taking an entry based on ability proven over the years. A number of authorities are not providing any comprehensive alternative, and a number are not providing any alternative to the comprehensive scheme, although there is a substantial minority opinion in some of those areas. In my area, for example, the local authority is going totally comprehensive. A substantial body of opinion would like to have more choice than a totally comprehensive scheme would offer. In other areas, like Richmond, there appears to be no comprehensive alternative and parents tell me that a substantial body of opinion would like one. Passions run very strongly about education, and it would be as well if we attempted to meet substantial opinions in the education areas and did not direct that one system, and one alone, should prevail. Mr. David Lane I support what has been said by my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) and would like to direct attention to a few other Amendments in the group. My hon. Friend has demonstrated very well the difficulty between the Bill and the 1944 Act—the fact that if the Bill becomes an Act in anything like its present form many authorities will be confronted with a constitutional dog's breakfast, and the least we can do is to try to clear it up a bit. [column 11] The other strong criticism I have relates to the unrealistic suddenness of the change the Government are trying to inflict. There is bound to be confusion in local authorities, and there will be distraction from other urgent jobs. Many of the Amendments are designed at least to try to even out the transition in a more realistic way, thinking always of the people at the receiving end, whether the parents, the local authority or those who matter most—the children. The Bill is also a threat to local choice. I shall quote a certain amount from the experience of my own authority in Cambridge, which has been trying very hard since the Circular of 1965 to produce a scheme which made sense. It is still engaged in discussions with the Department about the scheme it has produced. This illustrates very well the difficulties which authorities have been in for five years and which the Bill will not minimise by any magical formula. Our Amendments would do something to meet the plea of many of the local authorities, put to some of us only in the past few days by the Association of Municipal Corporations. I would like to quote one sentence from its comments: In seeking to smooth the suddenness of the effect of the Bill, we are emphasising our view that it would have been far better for the Government to await the larger Bill that we know they have on the stocks. We are forced to the conclusion that it is in a transparent effort to do a political rather than an educational job that the Bill has been brought forward. If so, let us at least try to make it a somewhat less dishonest job. Mr. Simon Mahon Surely the hon. Gentleman does not expect right hon. and hon. Members on this side to accept that? Many of us who have been in the education world and are interested in the advance of children will not accept from him the condemnation that we are doing a dishonest job. We will not accept that sort of injunction, and the hon. Gentleman might as well know that at the beginning. Some of us have been making speeches about the inequity of the 11-plus examination for the whole of our public life. This is in no way an ill-considered or untimely [column 12]Measure, nor has it been introduced with undue haste. Many of us wish that it had been introduced many years ago. Mr. Lane In using the word “dishonest” , I withdraw any imputation against individual Members opposite. What I am trying to convey is that it is intellectually dishonest to suggest that merely by passing the Bill we shall leap magically into a new era of secondary education where all the difficulties are suddenly conjured away, and that we shall immediately go forward with a faster rate of improvement than we have been able to achieve. It is no good wishing these difficulties away, because we all know that they exist. I do not hold any brief for the 11-plus, as I said on Second Reading. We are all aware of the disadvantages. I plead only for a rather more realistic approach to the problems in our different areas. Ever since I first read the Bill I thought that it smacked of wishful thinking and would not solve the problems. Amendment No. 3 seeks to leave out line 5 and 6 on page 1. We want to remove the words Hon. Members will have noticed an Amendment that goes with it in line 13. We are not getting rid entirely of the ending of selection because we are leaving in the words at the end of the subsection. We want to get rid of lines 5 and 6 in the interests of realism, so that we shall not suggest to anyone outside that when the Bill becomes an Act selection will be magically ended completely. It is wrong to impose this on local authorities. We all know areas where, with the best will in the world, buildings will not be adequate for a satisfactory comprehensive system in the shortness of time implied by the Bill. Let us not insist that all selection be ended like that. The Bill provides for selection at 15 or perhaps at 14 for sixth form colleges. Let us be realistic and allow flexibility to local authorities so that selection, but not in the rigid form of the 11-plus that has been so open to criticism, should be continued for at least some time during the transitional period. 11.0 a.m. Amendment No. 33 in the name of the hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr [column 13](Mr. Christopher Price) picks out the magic date of 1975. My authority, after years of hard labour and burning of midnight oil in trying to work out a reasonable scheme, has said that no reorganisation can wisely be undertaken in my area, given the difficulties of geography and the forecast of pupil numbers, as the buildings, and, above all, the finance are not likely to be available before 1975 at the earliest. This, coincidentally, fits in very well with Amendment No. 33 as an illustration of a reasonable time scale in some areas. This cannot be done by 1970 or 1971, but it may be done by 1975, although I would not say at the latest by 1975. May I dwell for a moment on Amendment No. 10 and the Amendments related to it? Should not the Minister make the Bill less rigid and allow more scope and judgment to local authorities? I entirely support the general move towards comprehensive education so long as it is not forced through at the unreasonable pace suggested by the Bill. Let us try to fit in with the realities and amend the Bill to allow the authorities which wish to do so to develop comprehensive schools when they are satisfied that the circumstances are right and that the general standards of education will benefit therefrom. Let us leave much more room for local judgment. I mention briefly Amendment No. 34, which provides for the insertion of the words “at any fixed age” at the end of line 13. This emphasises that nobody—certainly not those who tabled the Amendment—is wedded to the age of 11. We increasingly realise that 11 is not a satisfactory age. The sooner whatever selection may continue to be made is moved to 12 or 13, the happier we shall be. Amendment No. 13 is an effort to help local authorities out of the dilemma, or dog's breakfast, in which they will otherwise be landed. We must pay attention to the facts on the ground and the possibility of getting the buildings right in the time available. My constituency of Cambridge is fortunate in school buildings, teachers and administrators. But, although we have more than the normal number of buildings in similar cities for modern and highly satisfactory grammar and secondary modern schools and the difficulties of geography are not particularly great the view of the local authority, in the light of [column 14]Circular 10/65—and this is the view of all political parties represented in the local authority—is that it would not be right to bring in a scheme before 1975. Let us recognise this by making it clear to local authorities that we are leaving them discretion in difficult cases. This is a bad Bill. Let us try to make it less bad by persuading the Government to accept at least some of the Amendments. Mr. Christopher Price I first make a few comments on the speech of the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mr. Lane). It seems that we shall hear many words like “magic” , “sudden” and “complete” in these debates. I have never believed that there was any magic, easy, safe or sudden way to comprehensive reorganisation, and neither have my colleagues. It is not sensible to throw around adjectives which do not represent what anyone believes. Two other points mentioned by the hon. Member for Cambridge need far closer analysis. If hon. Members opposite do not mind my saying, they tend to use “flag” words: they choose a word and wave it around like a flag. The word “buildings” is a flag word. They say that buildings are an insuperable obstacle and that if only the buildings were right they would be in favour of comprehensive reorganisation. Buildings are but one element in the schools system. All the studies here and in the United States show that the arrangement and type of buildings are by far the least important factor in terms of educational attainment. The Coleman Report in the United States, the equivalent of our Plowden Report, discovered absolutely no difference in the educational attainment of children who attended schools having widely differing kinds of buildings and arrangements of buildings. Although it is right that our schools should be in suitable buildings, this aim must be put in context with our other aims, particularly the primary aim of Clause 1(1) of the need to end selection. This is a far greater need than to have every school in absolutely perfect buildings. Buildings are used more as an excuse than as a reason. The hon. Member for Cambridge drew a distinction between rigid selection ages, which he regarded as a bad thing, and “softened” selection, which he regarded as a good thing. But selection is absolute; there cannot be different degrees of it. If a child is selected for a school that is [column 15]not his first preference, that is an absolute selection and he either attends that school or he does not. Clause 1(1) says: I am pleased about this. No scheme which tries to make the blow of selection less severe and tries to improve the quality of all the schools cures the real problem. The hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) had a lot to say about the Bournemouth scheme. The Bournemouth scheme is not unique. There are many schools in the country where O levels can be obtained. For example, Warwickshire's high schools aimed at this system. Had such a system met the needs of teachers, there would not have been demands from teachers and parents over the past 20 years for the ending of selection and for comprehensive education. There is nothing new in Bournemouth's system. There is nothing to link the figures quoted by the hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) to the type of school system. All the evidence links the figures to Bournemouth and to the social background of the children there as against anywhere else. Mrs. Thatcher Is not the evidence that the results of the Bournemouth system are very satisfactory? Mr. Price Any system of secondary education in Bournemouth will show up well when compared with the national average because of the advantage which the children in Bournemouth have from their home backgrounds compared with children in the Midlands and the North. That does not mean that the system in Bournemouth could not be made better. I look forward to the time when Bournemouth sees the light and adopts full comprehensive education so that the director of education can say that the number of O levels obtained has been doubled, if there are O levels in those days, and the number of A levels trebled. Figures which suggest that Bournemouth has done better than the national average cannot be related exactly to the schools system. All the evidence is that they are related to the social background of the people in the area. Mr. Lane I am sorry I did not make [column 16]myself clear. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Christopher Price) accused me of waving flags. What I have in mind in talking about the rigidity of selection is the flag that the Secretary of State always waves, on which is inscribed “11-plus” . We do not want to see half the children in one school and half in another. We are all the time getting away from the original form of the 11-plus. It is the 11-plus in its original form, the once-for-all test, that has caused the greatest amount of unfairness and hard feeling, and that is what we are trying to get away from. The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Edward Short) No, it is not. The hon. Member mistakes the whole point. It is selection. Mr. Lane I know that that is the Secretary of State's view. I am trying to convey the view that parents and others have put to me, that the more we can get away from that original rigid eleven-plus type of selection and modify selection, so long as it exists, both by the method and by the age at which it takes place, the more we shall get over the feeling of unfairness. Mr. Price When the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mr. Lane) says that it is the harshness and the rigidity of the 11-plus that we are attacking and not alternative methods of selection, I could not disagree with him more. He is 10 years out of date. That is what people were attacking 10 years ago when his right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Handsworth (Sir E. Boyle) was Minister of Education. That was the battle in the 1950s, and that battle was finished long ago. We are moving into the 1970s, and no one now believes in a rigid examination. For a parent whose child is sent to a school that does not do A levels rather than a school that does, it makes not the slightest difference whether the child went to that school as a result of the teacher's assessment, an examination on one day, or a mixture of the two. Nor does it make very much difference, his child having been rejected by the school which does A levels, if he is offered a choice of six other schools. The selection is there, and it is with a view to ending selection that my right hon. Friend has brought in this Bill. If the hon. Gentleman speaks to any parents who are adversely affected by [column 17]selection or to any teachers who have to run the system, he will discover that however much we fiddle round with the system—I have in mind, for example, the Thorne scheme in the West Riding—with a view to ameliorating the impact of the primary schools, the crucial point is whether we have selection. I am pleased that this Bill goes some way to getting rid of selection. Mr. Reginald Eyre Just now, the hon. Gentleman was talking as if buildings did not matter—— Mr. Price No, I was not saying that. I said that they were one of a number of elements to be taken into consideration. The scientific evidence about the educational attainments of children shows that they are not the most important element, though I agree that they have an impact in other directions. Mr. Eyre Thinking of North Birmingham, would the hon. Gentleman reduce his argument about buildings to a point where he was in favour of introducing what some educationalists have called “botched-up comprehensives” ? 11.15 a.m. Mr. Price Frequently there is a dilemma. The choice is between going comprehensive very quickly by using existing buildings in a two-tier system, rather as Leicestershire did, which I do not think could be described as “botched-up” , or going comprehensive slowly and insisting on purpose-built schools. The second alternative is not a genuine one. By the time that purpose-built comprehensives are ready, probably there will be new ways of organising education, particularly among 16 to 19 year olds. I should be in favour of using existing buildings in Birmingham in a two-tier system next year. That could be done without very much difficulty and with the teachers behind the plan. That would be better than a lot of pious preaching about believing in comprehensives and waiting for purpose-built buildings. If they could be built this year, they would be purpose-built for the right purpose. If they are purpose-built in 12 or 15 years, they may be purpose-built for the wrong purpose. One has to be flexible. That is why I do not like the idea of purpose-built comprehensive schools. The more flexible the buildings are, the better, because in that [column 18]way they can be changed as educational ideas change. The idea of building large schools with halls like mausolea to accommodate large numbers of children may turn out in 20 years to have been mistaken. The Bill is about selection. It is not about the site of schools or how to organised comprehensive systems. Turning to Amendment No. 33, accusations have been made by right hon. and hon. Members opposite against my right hon. Friend to the effect that the Bill is a big stick, a bludgeon, a piece of dictatorial legislation designed to bully local authorities into carrying out his policy. My fear is exactly the opposite. I accept what my right hon. Friend says about the Bill not being designed to do everything, and that it must be seen in the context of a move towards the redrafting of the 1944 Act with a view to getting our legislation on this subject more finalised. It is important that the Bill should be seen to do something. It is one stage in the movement towards comprehensive education which has been going on since the Second World War. The first stage was the individual decisions of a number of local education authorities after the war to build comprehensive schools rather than grammar and secondary modern schools. The second stage was the encouragement given by the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Handsworth (Sir E. Boyle) to the process in Leicestershire of changing buildings over quietly and gradually towards comprehensive education, though we all know that, under the Enfield judgment, that turned out later to be an illegal process. The third stage was the Circular put out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Grimsby (Mr. Crosland). When he was Secretary of State, he issued Circular 10/65 requesting local authorities to move forward. These stages have brought comprehensive education to a large number of local authorities. This is the fourth stage in the attempt to deal with the problem of those authorities which have not complied with Circular 10/65 and drawn up plans but which, instead, continually draw up plans which they know are not comprehensive and do not end selection. I look forward to the redrafting of the 1944 Act as the final stage. This Bill is not the last word on the matter. The Bill could be a lot stronger, and that is why my hon. Friend the Member for Epping (Mr. Newens) and I have [column 19]tabled Amendment No. 33. To a great extent, it is a probing Amendment. I hope that my right hon. Friend will tell the Committee what considerations induced him not to put in the sensible words “… secure by 1st September 1975” . I am not dogmatic about the date. Some people may think it should be earlier. Others may think it should be later. However, it is important to lay upon local authorities an obligation to do something, rather than merely to have regard to a particular need. I know that difficulties will arise in putting it in this way. But anything that one does in the present state of our law on education will produce difficulties. Whether we legislate now or leave it for another three years, a great number of difficulties will arise, and the centre of them is the pattern of control of the Department over local education authorities and of the local education authorities over their schools. As a result of Circular 10/65, what has happened in case after case is that local authorities wanting to reorganise and go comprehensive have consulted the governors of aided schools and direct grant schools and have received no co-operation. In this connection, I refer not to those aided schools which come within the sphere of influence of my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Mr. Simon Mahon), but to those schools which exist for no better reason than that they are 400 years old or because of some other accident of history. A number of individual boards of governors of such schools have been able ever since the Circular to frustrate the wishes of their local authorities and of the Government. Very often, these boards of governors are little self-perpetuating oligarchies, responsible to no one. They have no democratic responsibilities. Mr. Mahon I am grateful for what my hon. Friend says about the sphere of education in which I have some influence. While I accept what he says about the schools to which he has referred, will be make it clear that, as regards those with which I have some connection, there has been considerable co-operation in the move towards comprehensive education? Mr. Price I would go even further. There are many areas in which Roman Catholic aided schools are anxious to get comprehensive schemes going and where, very often, it is the local education [column 20]authorities which are dragging their feet in getting on with it. When my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State speaks to this group of Amendments, I hope that he will say why it is not possible to be more specific in Clause 1. Perhaps he will also say what sanctions he intends to give local education authorities which want and should be allowed to reorganise the schools in their areas. The 1944 Act makes it clear that they are responsible for the pattern of secondary schools in their areas. What sanctions will local authorities be able to impose against schools run by managing bodies over whom the local authorities have no control? Sooner or later, this problem must be faced. I look to the redrafting of the main Act as being the time when we shall finally come to a consensus opinion about how to deal with the problem which clearly was not foreseen in 1944, since it did not arise in this form. In my opinion, a solution cannot wait for the big Act. A number of authorities want to reorganise, and great difficulties occur at the fringe as a result of local government reorganisation. We have seen the situations in Leicester and Wolverhampton where local government boundaries have changed in such a way as to bring in comprehensive areas. Unsatisfactory circumstances have arisen where good comprehensive schools have been progressively run down by people who worship at the altar of keeping grammar schools going. Mr. Fergus Montgomery Would the hon. Member give us an example? 11.30 a.m. Mr. Price I was thinking of the Regis School, Tettenhell, Wolverhampton Grammar School, and the Leicestershire schools which are now within the city of Leicester. There are others in other areas and will continue to be so as we reform local government. What is a local authority to do when it is faced with schools which are not willing to come into the national pattern of comprehensive reorganisation? Mr. J. E. B. Hill The hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Christopher Price) has made the case for flexibility because he has described so many differing conditions and factors. I see no hope of his Amendment ever being a [column 21]reality—that uniformity could be reached by 1975. Mr. Christopher Price “Uniformity” is another flag word which we shall hear a lot of. What does the hon. Member mean by it? Mr. Hill Moving to one system of secondary reorganisation with schools of different types all conforming to it. I think the hon. Member's argument was directed to selection between institutions and not to selection within institutions, streaming, which he also wants to get rid of. Mr. Christopher Price Would the hon. Member describe the six different systems of education in Circular 10/65 as uniformity? Mr. Hill Uniformity in aim. The pattern is in different buildings. This demands some variety but the hon. Member must realise that two of the six patterns are frowned upon and therefore there will only be four different patterns. It is the aim that 100 per cent. of the age group should be within the institution and to that extent there would be a uniformity of treatment. Positively I had wondered whether to take the Bill seriously because I realise that the reason it has come ahead of the main Bill is that it is hoped during discussion of it that some useful propaganda may be generated for any forthcoming general election. I regret that it will necessarily produce polarisation of views. Inevitably, however hard we try in this Committee to keep the political argument from dominating educational considerations, the Bill will highlight one educational question when many others deserve our attention and resources. It is odd to give priority to compelling local education authorities to produce plans for going comprehensive. It is even odder to bring in a Bill when the move towards comprehensive education seems to be going well in comparison with any other educational development. It is not much more than 10 years since the first comprehensive school was created. Mr. Fred Evans May I draw the hon. Member's attention to the fact that in Anglesey comprehensive education was in force well before the 1950s. Mr. Hill I beg the hon. Member's pardon. The Chairman I should like the hon. Member to address his remarks to the Amendment. Mr. Hill I want to link what I am saying to the Amendment, but I am trying to make the case for more flexibility, which is what the Amendments are generally aimed at. It is hard to get the balance right and it would have been easier to get it in a new Bill than in this one. My hon. Friend the Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) stressed that the general purpose of the 1944 Act is to provide a variety of education suitable to the differing aptitudes, abilities and ages of the children. I fear that if this Bill goes through in its present form and these Amendments are not accepted, it make it much harder for those local education authorities to carry out their main duty. Acceptance of the Amendments will have the advantage of avoiding a lot of legal conflict. If they are accepted the Bill will be less dictatorial to local education authorities in general. That is important because the passage of the Bill will inevitably damage the Government and local education authorities. The Amendments would mitigate that damage and would enable local authorities, while accepting the newish principle of comprehensive education, to make some variety of provision to fit the geographical circumstances and the facilities and resources available in their areas. I should like to make my own position clear. I am strongly against the 11-plus as the final word in a sudden test of a child's ability or potential. It is well enough known that I would put more educational emphasis on the pre-school years. I believe in the pool of ability and that the comprehensive system has come to spread but in my judgment there is all the difference between having a system spreading on its merits in favourable conditions by conviction, and seeking to enforce it everywhere, even where it may run flagrantly counter to the hard brutal realities of geography and finance. As I said in replying to the hon. Member for Perry Barr, I disagree with him in supposing that one cannot have a viable comprehensive school system of schools without having in them 100 per cent. of each age group. A lot of the confusion and controversy which has arisen has stemmed from the statement in [column 23]Circular 10/65—although I know it was a resolution of the House of Commons—that Government policy was to end selection by the 11-plus and eliminate separatism in secondary education. One can end the 11-plus and have viable comprehensive schools without forcing 100 per cent. of the age group to be within the schools. I do not want to argue what is the necessary percentage. It would vary with localities. We know in other countries with comprehensive experience that comprehensive schools work well in co-existence with highly selective schools. I would put in two cardinal principles. The educational system, and the local authorities in particular, should try to provide an educational environment which matches the needs of the child and in which it is most likely to make satisfactory progress. This means a flexible approach. Secondly, local education authorities should be able to provide as wide a variety of options as they can to fulfil that purpose—options which are important to local education authorities. They have to deploy their resources. One guiding principle should be that we cannot as a nation afford to lose a single good school and precipitate insistence on plans may prematurely cause a school to be injured if not destroyed, because it does not need the execution of a plan to destroy a school. The threat may destroy confidence in it, and begin a process of deterioration. I represent part of one of the counties which is judged to be recalcitrant. One reason why I support this group of Amendments is that Norfolk, if it is to do its job well, must have a degree of flexibility as it happens to be faced with some circumstances which, if not unique, are not common. We have just finished what we consider to be and were told was secondary reorganisation. We have built across the county at roughly 12-mile intervals fine post-war secondary modern schools. Our aim now is to get the primary foundations right. We are an agricultural county and we think it important to get early primary conditions right. In agriculture, it is useless to grow a crop unless the undersoil drainage is correct. One of the most tiresome things about wartime control was that a farmer might be directed to grow a crop on ill drained land. Without proper drainage the young plants can[column 24]not reach their full potential. We have a range of educational institutions scattered widely. It is more important for us to concentrate on a system of middle schools for those from eight years to 12 years, which we decided on in advance of Plowden and which were discouraged by Circular 10/650 before that. The other priority is the infants from four to eight years in village schools. When we have done that we shall be in a position to see how we can bring in a comprehensive system. But our immediate priorities must be to get the earlier ages of education, which have suffered greatly, right. 11.45 a.m. I would acknowledge that we have in the last five years been able to build 11 new primary schools. We have said no building that we wish to put up will be incompatible with ultimate comprehensive reorganisation. But we are very short of money. We are getting about 20 per cent. of what we asked for on the capital programme. Our geography is such that schools are very scattered, and one of our problems is the excessive travelling that children may be required to do. The Committee will appreciate that even if the conception of the hon. Member for Perry Barr of a comprehensive school in tiers in different buildings were adopted, it might be easy in an urban area where buildings are probably not more than a quarter of a mile apart, but in the country, where they may be 12 miles apart, it would create an appalling problem of transport, which really rules it out as an immediate practical proposition. The question of local authority boundaries has been mentioned. The White Paper on Local Government Reorganisation proposes to move a part of Suffolk into Norfolk, which would have a substantial effect on catchment areas. Likewise, the proposal to move away part of the western area of Norfolk would sever a catchment area which promised well for an early essay in the comprehensive system. Even with those difficulties, Norfolk, as any other local education authority faced with the same difficulties would do, has devised a wide variety of educational provision which removes any possibility of a final judgment and certainly any possibility of a child properly being labelled a failure at 11. I am bound to say that the descrip[column 25]tion by the Secretary of State of secondary modern pupils as failures simply is not true of Norfolk. I wish he had not said it. We have a system of long and detailed assessment, as many authorities do, and it is over 15 years since we abandoned the rigid one-day 11-plus. We also have a system of annual reassessment for those children—— Miss Bacon I have listened for a long time to what the hon. Gentleman has been saying about Norfolk. It is entirely opposite to what a deputation from Norfolk, including the chairman and director, said to me recently about the building programmes. They told me that they would shortly produce a scheme to end selection at 11 and a scheme for comprehensive reorganisation. It is true that as soon as we allowed the buildings they took a different point of view, but what the hon Gentleman is saying now is not what that deputation said to me. Mr Hill I do not think there is any difference between the right hon. Lady and myself. If the Government pass legislation, Norfolk, which is a law-abiding country, will—— Miss Bacon The hon. Gentleman misunderstood me. This happened before the Bill was published. Quite apart from the Bill, they said that they were about to produce a scheme which afterwards they decided not to do. Mr. Hill Because conditions are changing so rapidly, and also because whenever Norfolk puts in a building allocation the Government feel obliged to cut it to about 20 per cent., it is impossible to produce a viable scheme. The kind of scheme that would be produced by local education authorities would vary very much with the year in which the scheme was put forward. If Norfolk had to put forward a scheme next year, it would not be likely to be such a good scheme as one put forward in four or five years' time, when resources would be available. This is partly because there are very sharp increases in population in different parts of the county and also because we wish to reduce excessive travelling. Other points we are not certain about clearly make it somewhat difficult to produce a scheme. We do not know, and we will not know at the end of this Bill, what the Government's plans are to enable some part of a child's compulsory [column 26]schooling to be spent in further education institutions when the school-leaving age is raised to 16. It is very important for Norfolk because we are trying in parts of the county to introduce specialist courses which may be in institutes of further education and which we want to relate very closely to school development programmes. I am stating these facts and difficulties to show that I do not think this Bill will fulfil any useful purpose if it simply requires a few local authorities to produce plans before they have the materials and facts and resources to devise the best possible plans. It is not long since it was rightly said that in Norfolk, and no doubt elsewhere, the cost of abortive planning is high. It means asking top people to produce detailed plans on a series of often uncertain hypotheses, and this itself can be deemed a waste of time unless there is a chance of fulfilling that plan within a reasonable time. The hon. Member for Perry Barr has stressed how quickly plans become out of date, and with a rapidly-changing situation on the ground I would have thought it was not sensible for a local authority to commit itself to a definite plan unless and until it has the resources and the certainty of going ahead within a year or two. For those broad reasons, I very much hope that the Amendments will be accepted, at any rate in sufficient number to permit more flexibility in the operation of the Bill. Mr. Stan Newens The hon. Member for Norfolk, South (Mr. J. E. B. Hill) said that a much better scheme could probably be put forward for Norfolk five years hence than in a year's time, because more resources would be available. The argument which he advanced made me even more concerned that the Bill should be strengthened. I am unable to agree with him that the Bill is in any way dictatorial. I therefore support my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Christopher Price) in what he said about Amendment No. 33. The Bill does not stipulate any time limit, and it seems to me desirable that it should. I should like my right hon. Friend the Minister to explain how he thinks we shall be able to overcome the arguments advanced by local authorities and others who have no desire other than to postpone [column 27]the introduction of comprehensive education indefinitely. The hon. Member for Norfolk, South and the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mr. Lane) were concerned about the abolition of the 11-plus. We on this side are concerned not merely about the 11-plus but about getting rid of selection completely, and a Bill such as this is necessary if this is to be done. I hope the Bill will not ever be weakened. I have seen in several areas the way in which authorities continually put forward arguments such as those which have been advanced this morning about difficulties over buildings and resources. Whether in a rural area or in a highly built-up area, it is possible in most cases to introduce a scheme of comprehensive education by the adaptation of existing buildings. However, I am prepared to concede that it may not be possible to do that overnight, and in those circumstances the date proposed in Amendment No. 33 would give opportunities for such changes in buildings as are required. I taught in the London area for a number of years and I am well acquainted with the difficulties which the old L.C.C. had to overcome in introducing comprehensive education. In many ways, the difficulties in London were greater than those in rural areas because in London there are a number of very old school buildings and also limitations on the space available for the expansion of existing buildings which are unlikely to exist in rural areas. In addition, there is the difficulty in highly built-up areas of main roads. Although two buildings may not be very far apart, they may be separated by busy roads, which creates a situation as difficult as that in rural areas. Mr. Hill Would the hon. Gentleman make it quite clear that, whereas the countryside has more space, it has a number of old buildings which are quite as antiquated and unsuitable as those in urban areas? Would he not agree that when the work has been done it is still very important how much time in the child's day has to be spent travelling? A system which imposes a great deal of extra travelling is not a good one. Mr Newens I agree that rural areas have some very bad school buildings, and that problem has to be tackled, but I do not concede that the existence of these [column 28]buildings precludes the introduction of comprehensive schemes. On the point about travelling distance, the very process of selection adds on many occasions to the travelling which selected pupils have to do, because a selective school in many of these areas has to draw from a much wider catchment area than would a comprehensive school. When I was a child living in West Essex, I had to travel 12 miles to attend a selective grammar school. It is desirable not to add unduly to travelling distances, but every scheme must be adapted to the conditions prevailing in a particular area. I believe that in principle comprehensive schemes will lead to fewer travelling difficulties than selective schemes. Mr. Montgomery How does the hon. Gentleman's argument accord with his Amendment No. 20, in which he asks local authorities to design their catchment areas to secure a balanced intake? Would not that mean that many children would have to travel long distances to school? 12 noon. Mr Newens If I dealt with the argument for Amendment No. 20 now, I should be ruled out of order, but there are arguments which must be raised in connection with catchment areas in certain districts. What I shall have to say about that Amendment does not contradict what I have said about the arguments raised by the hon. Member for Norfolk, South about travelling. I am extremely doubtful whether it is so difficult as is often made out to adapt buildings for the introduction of a comprehensive scheme. I think that it would be adequate to allow until 1975 for this to be done. We were told that in the area of the West Essex Divisional Executive the difficulties were such that it was impossible to introduce a comprehensive scheme for a considerable time. There the difficulties were quite different from those which have been outlined today. According to the opponents of comprehensive schools, we had spent too much on good selective schools. However, as a result of the considerable local pressure from people who wanted comprehensive schools to be introduced in the area, the Divisional Executive has now discovered that the problems are not as difficult as they were claimed to be. I am sure that if we can have the sort of pressure which [column 29]is required at the centre, if Amendment No. 33 were accepted, authorities would find that there was certainly a way of achieving the introduction of a comprehensive scheme as quickly as is laid down here. I think that the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mr. Lane) used the term “botched-up-schemes.” Mr. Lane I do not think that I used that phrase. But a few moments ago the hon. Gentleman referred to opponents of comprehensives in the Committee. I am not an opponent of comprehensives. I am trying to be realistic about them. Mr Newens I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman goes at least part of the way with us. An hon. Gentleman opposite used the term “botched-up schemes.” It is all very well to use that expression to sneer at schemes which have been introduced under difficult conditions, but I believe that the introduction of schemes which use existing buildings often provides, and would certainly provide if introduced wisely, much better opportunities for the majority of children than the continuation of the existing system in the area. Every year that the introduction of comprehensive education is postponed in an area a number of children lose the opportunity of the benefits which would accrue to them. The majority of them will be unlikely to make up for the opportunities they lose, so the effect is permanent. Therefore, it is not the same as postponing a road scheme or another development. In this case the education of certain children is lost for ever. Therefore, the Bills should be strengthened to ensure that comprehensive schemes are introduced and that we get rid of the old selective system completely by 1975. Mr. Eyre The programme which the hon. Gentleman proposes would take up resources. Has he considered the total amount of resources that would be consumed in pushing forward such a programme, and what other educational progress would have to be held back to make them available within the limitations which we all know and which were set out by the Chancellor a few weeks ago? Mr Newens I think that I should be going beyond the limits of the debate if I went into that too deeply, but I have [column 30]said elsewhere that I am concerned about the projections for public expenditure on education. It is not a question of robbing Peter to pay Paul. I believe that developments and expansion within the other sectors of education, particularly the primary sector, are vital, but I do not accept that the sort of arguments advanced this morning detract from development in them in any way. Existing buildings and the existing set-up can in most cases be adapted to the introduction of comprehensive education and the abolition of selection. I am prepared to accept for the sake of argument that there are certain areas where there are considerable difficulties over the adaptation of existing buildings, but, once we have said that selection must be abolished, the arguments are strengthened for asking the Government to provide the resources to implement the policy. I do not believe that this weakens what I am saying. I do not accept that the case being made out this morning undermines developments in other sectors of education. Mr. Mahon Would my hon. Friend agree that areas like Liverpool which have considerable social problems, such as bad housing, are very often the places with the so-called inadequate schools? Would not delaying the introduction of comprehensive education continue the social inequalities that exist not only in a general sense but an educational sense? Those of us who were born in those areas have always felt that it was iniquitous to be discriminated against not only socially in the form of bad housing but also educationally. Mr Newens I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. The hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) quoted the case of Bournemouth. It is interesting that she should speak of an area which is very prosperous and where the majority of the population are fairly well off compared with those in other areas. She used the criterion of the number of O and A level passes obtained in Bournemouth as a justification of the existing system there. It is very difficult to measure educational achievements and the satisfactory nature of a system except by present methods, but in many cases the real advantages of comprehensive schools accrue to the children who will not necessarily pass any O or A levels, and who will benefit [column 31]in social terms which cannot be measured in the way she stated. The way in which she quoted Bournemouth illustrated only too clearly the inadequacies of the basis of her arguments. Mrs. Thatcher The purpose of my speaking of Bournemouth was on the construction point, that the Edward Shortright hon. Gentleman has not said that every local education authority shall provide secondary education only in non-selective schools. That would have been clear, but he has deliberately used different phraseology, namely: That is different from the direction, and I suspect that it is different deliberately to give the right hon. Gentleman an out, because where that phraseology has been used in the past it has not been implemented in some cases, even in the 20 to 30 years since the 1944 Act. The right hon. Gentleman has not been direct and the words he has used must have a specific meaning different from the wording of the provision. Mr Newens I had better leave my right hon. Friend to deal with that aspect of the problem. I do not think that it detracts from my argument. I remember when the schools with which I was concerned in Hackney were amalgamated. We had an old central school which we might say was, in the best sense of the term, a second-grade grammar school and a secondary modern school. They were in old buildings some distance apart and separated by a busy main road. The number of children who stayed on in the old secondary modern school was very small and no courses were provided for them. Over the years, during which the schools were knitted together, we found a completely different atmosphere developing. The children who might have been expected to go to the secondary modern school—and after a while it was impossible to tell who they were—had exactly the same sort of attitude to their school as the children who might have been expected to go to the old central school. Socially, the advantages of this are enormous. I imagine that most of us here were sufficiently fortunate to have got through school feeling that we were not failures. But there is something very unpleasant [column 32]about feeling that one has been relegated to the school for children who are not as capable, not as intelligent or socially desirable, as those who go to selective schools. This has a very bad effect on the children who are sent to secondary modern schools. Where there is streaming, in most schools the children in the bottom stream often develop a frame of mind in which they think, “If we are not good at academic subjects, at least we will show them how tough we are.” If we want to get away from that state of affairs we must have comprehensive schools and end selection, and the arguments advanced from the other side of the Committee today in favour of procrastinating must be dismissed. Therefore, the Bill needs strengthening, and I hope that if my right hon. Friend feels that my Amendment cannot be accepted he will make the reason very clear. I hope that he will reconsider the whole issue, and introduce a time limit, so that the present system will be abolished more quickly in certain areas of the country. Mr. Montgomery In making his point about children in the lower stream in secondary modern schools, the hon. Member went on to say that this was one reason why he wanted a comprehensive system. Is he advocating no streaming in a comprehensive system? 12.15 p.m. Mr Newens To reply to that question would be going on to another argument, but I should be delighted to take up the point with the hon. Member another time. The arguments on streaming should be considered. I am in favour of softening the streaming system and introducing setting, but not in one fell swoop without considering the best possible methods of doing it. It is undesirable to gather together a group of pupils in a school who will eventually be regarded by many people and by themselves as misfits, and who often react to this treatment in an anti-social way. This does not detract from the need for keeping together e.s.n. children. I would like to discuss this point at greater length with the hon. Member for Brierley Hill (Mr. Montgomery). Sir Edward Boyle I suspect that the short answer to Amendment No. 33 is that the Secretary of State would never have succeeded in getting a time limit to [column 33]the Bill past the Treasury. The hon. Member for Epping (Mr Newens) misunderstood the intervention of my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Mr. Eyre). His point was that it would be cynical if a time limit had been put on the Bill in the light of the White Paper on Public Expenditure which has just been presented to the House of Commons. I agree with the hon. Gentleman in wanting to press for increased resources to be devoted to education; indeed, I hope to be able to do that in a future incarnation. With all that needs to be done in the education service, I think most people outside would have considered it cynical if, in view of the White Paper on Public Expenditure, the Secretary of State had put a time limit on the Bill, even if he could have got his colleagues to agree. I wish to concentrate principally on Amendment No. 4, which seeks to leave out of clause 1(1) the rather disingenuous words: Before doing so, may I say make one or two comments in reply to the interesting speech of the hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Christopher Price). No doubt he will have an occasion later in the proceedings to reply to me. May I take up two points which he made. First, buildings. I agree with him that one can exaggerate the buildings difficulty, but I make one very major exception, and that is sixth form provision. Surely, we all recognise nowadays that satisfactory sixth form education is not possible without adequate libraries and laboratories, and, in my view, adequate common room space. The comprehensive plans run up in a hurry which have bothered me most during the 1960s have been those which dealt with sixth form education in a slaphappy or unsatisfactory way, and from that point of view I believe that buildings are of great importance. If we are considering what have been called flag-waving words, may I suggest that the word “selection” can also be a flag-waving word, for this reason. As I said on Second Reading, there is always the temptation to speak as though, under a comprehensive scheme, all children go to the same school. Of course they do not. There still must be some basis for selecting boys and girls for different schools. I hope on a later Amendment [column 34]that we can discuss the issue of banding, and how the selection should be done. Let us remember, as I said to the House, that ruling out any element of selection by ability can result in a much greater and more indefensible degree of inequality between schools. Mr. Christopher Price Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is a fundamental difference between an overt system of selection on academic ability, with all the feelings of deprivation this causes to the children who are told that they lack academic ability, and all the other systems of selection used in selecting children for various schools in a city? Sir E. Boyle I am glad to hear from the hon. Member that there could well come a time in this dialectic when he and I might not totally differ. As I have said in the House on many occasions, majority opinion in this country believes that the moment of transfer from primary to secondary is too early for separation of children into schools of different types. Nonetheless, as I have also said, both in the House and in the country, I have always been opposed to proceeding by compulsion. I gave many reasons for that in the Second Reading debate, and I will concentrate on only one aspect this morning, the difficulty of framing a satisfactory law and, in particular, one very unsatisfactory feature of the Bill. I take up the challenge of the hon. Member for Perry Barr. I would have stopped at what he calls the second phase, although I would call it the third phase. The first stage was the wise action of Lord Butler and Mr. Chuter Ede in 1944 in introducing a Bill which permitted comprehensive schemes. The Education Act, 1944, was deliberately drafted in such a way as to enable authorities, if they so wished, to provide what were then most often called multilateral schools. Both I and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for St. Marylebone (Mr. Hogg) welcomed the Leicestershire plan as an experiment in 1957. In 1963 I gave a clear indication that I realised that reorganisation was in the air and that we must no longer think of bipartism as a norm compared with which everything else was dangerously experimental. But I would not have gone beyond that. I would not have issued Cir[column 35]cular 10/65, still less would I have introduced this Bill. Without necessarily endorsing the Bournemouth scheme and the interesting speech made at Londonderry by the Director of Education for Bournemouth, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that it is much more sensible to encourage the neighbouring county of Hampshire to make a success of the reorganisation scheme on which it has embarked than to be concerned with coercing Bournemouth. I would rather give all possible help to Hampshire, a large county which made a success of getting rid of all-age schools in 1950, is reorganising its rural schools and now wishes to reorganise further. I would rather concentrate on helping Hampshire than coercing Bournemouth where, to put it at its lowest, conditions are not so very intolerable. It is not as though tremendous injustices were being done to the children of Bournemouth. As I think was implied, quite rightly, from the other side of the committee, whatever system there is, educational conditions in Bournemouth will be rather better than those in many other areas. I agree, and I think that the argument cuts both ways. Mr. Christopher Price In advocating complete local option on selection for local authorities, is not the right hon. Gentleman laying up a lot of trouble for the reorganisation of local government? Is not it sensible for a Government to have a national principle running through secondary education? Sir E. Boyle My answer to that is twofold. First, I would not advocate complete local option. If it is believed that an authority is denying opportunity to the majority of children, of course the Minister must intervene. If I may say so with no disrespect, I intervened in Bournemouth in 1962 when I thought the authority was mistaken, and, fortunately, we were soon able to reach agreement. There is a great difference between the Minister deciding to intervene in a particular case where he thinks injustice is being done and generally proceeding with secondary reorganisation by compulsion. I make no bones of the fact that I would rather proceed by gradualism and persuasion than by compulsion. As I said on Second Reading, I believe that that [column 36]will result in the long run in many more better schemes. When the hon. Member says that surely it is intolerable for a small part of the country to have a different system from the rest, let us recall that under the Government's own plans there would be very different systems in different parts of the country. Let us not have any doubt as to the real feelings of parents about moving from areas where secondary education starts at 11 into areas with middle schools. Whatever else Government policy is bringing about, it is not unanimity, so there is that difficulty anyway. May I come to my point on Amendment No. 4. As I said on Second Reading—and I fear that I must go over this ground again—I believe that the Bill, and particularly Clause 1, is a very unsatisfactory addition to our body of education legislation. Clauses 2 and 3 amount to a fundamental change in the balance of power in the education service. At the same time, the Government do not want to appear to be making a fundamental change, and the result is a Bill which will prove in operation to be both unsatisfactory and ambiguous. Clause 1 has been framed with Section 8 of the 1944 Act in mind. Section 8 is an absolutely key section, which provides that local education authorities must offer the children's The courts have always taken the view, as we discovered at the time of the Kesteven judgment, that this is one of the key Sections of the Act which takes preference over Section 76 which says that, so far as is practicable, children should be I agree with the right hon. Lady the Minister of State when she said in winding up the debate on Second Reading that Section 8 has to be put into operation in conjunction with Section 99. Suppose that the Bill becomes an Act, even for a short time, and a local education authority is genuinely satisfied that full educational opportunity cannot be extended to a small proportion of children in non-selective schools. The right hon. Lady said that a test case could [column 37]always be brought, but she could not believe that it would succeed. She could not believe that any parent would have a grievance because his child was in a comprehensive school rather than in a grammar school. It seemed to her that it would be far more likely that a parent would have a grievance if the child had been put in a secondary modern school rather than a comprehensive school. 12.30 p.m. My answer to the right hon. Lady is that I was not envisaging a situation in which an authority decided to remain exactly as at present or as has been the custom in the past with, say, 20 per cent. in grammar schools and the remainder in secondary modern schools. I envisage a position in which an authority provided, in the main, non-selective education but decided to keep a very small percentage of selective provision. I am thinking of an authority which is not only short of sixth-form provision but which also may be short of mathematics and science graduates and which feels that, if it is to do justice by the ablest children, one or two selective schools must remain. Alternatively, what about an authority which, in a part of its area, keeps a certain number of schools which are selective from 13 or 14? I have in mind such areas as Doncaster and Kent, Thameside. Suppose Ministers change their view and an authority wishes to keep to such an arrangement? In those circumstances, would it not have a strong case to bring before the courts, if only because it was a scheme which deliberately took parental preference into account? I think that the answer is clear. It is that the powers, duties and responsibilities laid on local authorities under Section 8 are cancelled out by the precision of the powers conferred on the Minister under Clauses 2 and 3. In that case, it would have been much better if the Government had been honest. Since the Bill makes a major change in the relative positions of the Government and the local authorities, it would have been more honest drastically to amend Section 8 of the 1944 Act and have done with it. It is for that reason that, in our Amendment, we deliberately leave out the words [column 38] I know that we are dealing with children and that we must be careful not to think of educational law as something which exists for its own sake. I do not doubt the sincerity of hon. Members opposite in wanting to extend educational opportunity more widely to children. Nonetheless, I believe that the law has a vital part to play in our education service. Throughout the history of educational progress in the last 100 years there has been a long tradition of agreement about the legal basis of education and trying to render the law as satisfactory as it could be made. By the time that the 1944 Measure passed into law, everyone felt that the legislation was in as satisfactory a form as possible at that time. Again, I remember the real concern which was felt through the 1950s about the legal position of the aided schools, and more recently we have had a proper tidying up of the law on secondary reorganisation following the Enfield case. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Christopher Price) is right when he says that the law and reality were getting out of line with one another. In this Bill, we are making the mistake of getting the law out of line with reality. The proposed legislation is disingenuous and, for that reason, unsatisfactory. I hope that the House will resist legislating a new principle into the relationship between the Government and local authorities while trying at the same time to pass legislation which gives the impression that no such new principle is being introduced. Mr. Short We have had an extremely good debate on these Amendments. Perhaps I can deal with the speeches in turn. The hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) talked about the objectives of local authorities in Section 8 of the 1944 Act. They are duties, and certainly Section 8 lays down the duties of local authorities in deciding the pattern of schools in their areas. It sets out the factors to which local authorities must have regard in carrying out those duties or in exercising their powers for the purposes of carrying out those duties. In effect, Clause 1(1) adds another factor to which they must have regard. The hon. Lady asked, if that is the case, why not add it to the three in Section 8(2) of the 1944 Act? This course was taken not to give me an out, and I have no objection in principle to the idea [column 39]which she has put forward. But I had the Bill drafted in this way for two reasons. One was presentational and the other drafting. It is extremely important to incorporate a reference, and give it pride of place, to the ending of selection by reference to ability and aptitude. That is given pride of place in the wording of the Clause. As for the drafting, there is a need to include some reference to the exercise of powers for the purpose of fulfilling duties under Section 8 and those exceptions specified in subsections (2) and (3) of the Clause. For those two reasons, while I agree with the principle of what she said, I cannot accept the Amendment. The hon. Lady went on to talk about the word “need” and said that there was no educational need for reorganisation. I wonder how she can ignore the consensus of educational opinion and research over the last two or three decades. The word “need” refers to a need established by Parliament in an Act of Parliament—that is, to national policy This Committee is meeting to lay down the need to which local authorities must have regard. The hon. Lady then talked about Bournemouth. If she holds up Bournemouth as the pattern to be followed, she will be laughed out of court. Let her come to Newcastle and try. This is going back to the ancient Britons. Bournemouth has a pattern of grammar and secondary modern schools. It gets good results because it is Bournemouth and has a certain social pattern. It is an upstage, middle-class, well-to-do area. The hon. Lady spoke about the quota allocated to primary schools, as if that was an invention of Bournemouth. It arose out of the Thorne scheme, invented by the Labour-controlled West Riding County Council, and, when there was a Labour council in Newcastle, it was adopted there—— Mrs. Thatcher Has the right Edward Shorthon. Gentleman finished what he intended to say on the word “need” ? If his answer is the need laid down by Parliament, there are three needs in the 1944 Act. One took 20 years to implement. The others have not yet been implemented. Mr. Short Certainly there is an educational need, which everyone recognises except the hon. Lady. The technical, legal meaning of the word “need” is different. It is that laid down by Parliament. At the [column 40]moment, I am talking about Bournemouth and pointing out that the scheme is nothing more than the old tripartite system, with good secondary modern schools getting good results. But I hope that no one will hold it up as an example to be followed in the rest of the country. The hon. Lady went on to discuss Amendment No. 10, which I think she will agree is a wrecking Amendment. It could be fulfilled by having one or two comprehensive schools. Then the hon. Lady came on to her favourite theme of the comprehensive alternative. This is the Tory policy of having selective schools side by side with comprehensives. By definition, it is impossible. Comprehensive schools mean that all children go to them. The hon. Lady made the point and laboured it on Second Reading. She is trying to ride two horses at once. She wants to be on the side of the comprehensivists and on the side of those who want to retain selection. On Second Reading, I asked her if she would retain selection, and she replied that she would, if the parents wanted it. But that is what happened 40 years ago. It was there for the parents who wanted it. If there is creaming off, it makes comparisons between grammar and comprehensive schools extremely difficult, if not impossible, and it hinders the development of schools into effective educational units. I agree that a mixed economy of comprehensives and some selective schools is acceptable for a very short time in the interim period of changing over, but only for a short interim period. Mr. Lane Would the right hon. Gentleman explain how he squares his argument with the words in Clause 1(4, a) which provide for selection at the age of 15 or even 14 for sixth form colleges? Is he not over-stating the case? Mr. Short I will come to that later. It does not arise on these Amendments. I come now to the speech of the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mr. Lane). He said that he wanted to amend the Bill to leave local authorities free. In other words, he wants to destroy the Bill. I do not think I said that the Bill would transform the position overnight. Obviously it cannot. It is not a matter of a legal framework but of providing resources. It will not transform the position overnight, but it will set on the right course those local [column 41]authorities which are doing nothing or very little. The hon. Gentleman referred to Amendment No. 34, the object of which is not apparent to me or my advisers. Presumably the term “any fixed age” means any specified age. That can only mean that ordinary admissions to an 11 to 18 school at the age of 11 would be nonselective but that any other admissions, say, of children coming from outside, would be selective. That is the only meaning that I can give to it. Presumably secondary education would be permitted in such a school because selective admissions not being at any fixed age would not be caught by the subsection. That seems nonsense to me. If the Amendment has any other meaning, I would like to know what it is. Its meaning is obscure. My hon. Friends the Members for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Christopher Price) and Epping (Mr. Newens) dealt with Amendment No. 33. I appreciate their desire to give the Bill more teeth and make it stronger. However, I am afraid that there are two reasons why I cannot accept their Amendment. The first is that the Amendment would be unworkable because of the voluntary schools. The 1944 Act provides for persons who are not subject to the control of the local education authorities, the governors and managers of voluntary schools, to take the formal legal steps to convert their schools to comprehensive schools. Out of our 5,453 secondary schools, there are 985 voluntary schools. This is a sizeable problem and, because of the powers given to the governors of voluntary schools to take this action themselves, the Amendment would be unworkable Secondly, as the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Handsworth (Sir E. Boyle) said, there is the problem of cost. This would involve the injection of massive capital resources and, if it were to be done by 1st September, 1975, the cost would be astronomical. Reorganisation involves a great deal more than simply putting a new name on the board. When we changed our secondary schools after the war, under the 1944 Act, we often merely took down the old senior school notice board and put up new ones saying “Secondary Modern School.” We want the change to be a great deal more than that, a genuine change-over to a genuine comprehensive unit capable of [column 42]catering for the full age range. I shall not approve any botched-up schemes. 12.45 p.m. The first requirement is to devise a plan so that the buildings and resources which become available in successive programmes can be deployed in the most effective way to a fully comprehensive system. Therefore, we want to ensure that the basic pattern on the ground is right. I do not think that a time limit can be set to the whole process. First, we want the plan and then we must study the apportionment of resources; and, above all, we must have a Minister in Whitehall who has the will to see that the schemes are carried out in accordance with the plan. Mr. Christopher Price I expected that my right hon. Friend to say what he said about voluntary schools, but can he give a little more information about them and say what measures he would expect a local authority faced with a non-co-operative voluntary school to do? How does one overcome that problem? Mr. Short In this Bill we are going as far as we can. With the churches there is usually no problem. We had the highest degree of co-operation from both the Anglican and the Roman Catholic Churches. They are only too willing to reorganise their schools. But there is trouble with some other voluntary schools, and I have no doubt that in the new major Education Bill there will be ways of dealing with that problem. At the moment it is a matter of discussion and agreement, if possible, between the local authority and the voluntary bodies and it is the duty of the education authority to submit schemes. The local education authority can submit it to me after approving it. Mr. Mahon The Secretary of State is held in the highest regard by those connected with voluntary schools, but how much educational progress would there be in any other sector of education if parents had to find one-fifth of the total cost of reorganisation? Mr. Short We all appreciate the sacrifices which the voluntary bodies make to provide their schools, but at the moment they submit their plan to the local authority and the local authority submits them to the Secretary of State. Clause [column 43]2(4, c) gives the Secretary of State power to specify the time allowed to a local authority to submit a plan. It is not the same point but it is relevant to it. The hon. Member for Nofolk, South (Mr. J. E. B. Hill) said that he regarded the Bill as propaganda. I wonder who is making the propaganda out of this? This has nothing to do with politics. On the hon. Gentleman's theory, a Government should never introduce any Bills in its last year in office because it would be propaganda with an eye on the election. This has to do with children who are deprived of a fair deal, certainly in Norfolk and in many other places throughout the country. On Second Reading, I tried perhaps imperfectly, to set out the educational case. The hon Member for Finchley called it a lecture in genetics, but there is an unassailable case for reorganising secondary schools. The hon. Member for Norfolk, South tried to ride, not two horses, but three: viable comprehensive schools; highly selective schools, and he still did not want the 11-plus. He was in favour of comprehensive schools and the highly selective schools but all without the 11-plus. This is organisational nonsense. One cannot have it two ways and certainly not three ways. If the hon. Member wants selective schools in Norfolk or elsewhere, they must be on a basis of selection. The hon. Lady the Member for Finchley, in her famous intervention in the House, said that she wanted selection for parents who wanted it. The Deputy Director of the Foundation for Educational Research published an article this week in the journal of the Advisory Centre for Education and referred to the fact that the Plowden Report said that 70,000 pupils each year were wrongly selected. He said the best possible devised 11-plus examination or system of selection would have that amount of error. The right hon. Member for Handsworth spoke of the hypothetical case of a local authority which kept a small proportion of selective schools. If this occurred, it would not be in accordance with the duties which will be laid on them when the Bill becomes an Act. Sir E. Boyle Is the right hon. Gentleman referring to Clause 1, or is he saying as I suggested was the fact, that Clauses [column 44]2 and 3 and the powers given in them to the Secretary of State nullify the duties and responsibilities of local authorities under Section 8 of the 1944 Act? Mr. Short In carrying out the duties and powers under Section 8 and Clause 1(1), authorities would have to have regard to the need for securing that secondary education is provided only in schools where the arrangements for pupils are not based wholly or partly on selection by ability and aptitude. If the local authority ignored that, it would not be acting in accordance with the law. The right hon. Member's other point was the difficult one of parental choice of school at age 13. This Bill does not affect parental choice, but, if the right hon. Member wants to talk about it, I believe that with comprehensive schools parents have a better choice than in the tripartite system where 80 per cent. of parents have no choice, or, if they have one at all, it is only between one secondary modern school and another and not the choice of the grammar school. The other 20 per cent. of parents can choose either the grammar school or the other schools, but in a large comprehensive school with a great variety of courses it should be possible for a child to obtain a tailor-made course. There may not be a choice of buildings or of instiutions but there is an infinitely greater choice of educational courses. Amendment No. 4 would omit from Clause 1(1) the reference to the duties of the authority under Section 8 of the 1944 Act and their powers for the purpose of fulfilling those duties. The duty to have regard to the comprehensive principle if this had been omitted would then operate without any framework of reference at all, which would be quite unacceptable. It would not be sensible to impose on local authorities a duty to have regard to the principle without specifying the context within which they are to have regard to it. It would be ambiguous since it might be argued that it applied over the whole range of the Education Acts. I appreciate that this was not intended, but I am advised that it is ambiguous. I advise the Committee to reject all the Amendments. Mr. W. R. van Staubenzee It would be for the convenience of the Committee if we resolved our minds on these matters, and I hope that the Secretary of [column 45-46]State will acquit me of discourtesy if I reply briefly so that we can come to a decision this morning. Listening to the debate, any fair observer would agree that my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) has uncovered a weakness in the Bill which the Opposition have pinpointed by a series of Amendments. We have shown clearly that the Clause is in conflict with the major Act. I hope that my hon. Friends will vote in favour of Amendment No. 4. I am conscious of certain technical defects in that Amendment, but the right hon. Gentleman is well aware of the practice of Oppositions making their position clear by hinging an argument on an Amendment. We will do that on this occasion, basing ourselves on the arguments deployed by my hon. and right hon. Friends. We shall vote in favour of Amendment No. 10. We shall have ample opportunity on another occasion of developing this argument but frankly we do not accept that universality is necessary in meaningful comprehensive education. I shall leave the argument at that point and say no more. We shall vote in favour of Amendment No. 13. Here the provision of appropriate buildings seems a matter of great importance, and also the variety and character of the education provided. We shall come to the question of buildings more specifically later. This Amendment merely touches on it. Later we shall be able to take up the arguments of the hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Christopher Price.) This Bill is purely political and, on the admission of the Secretary of State, we shall have to live with the existing situation for as long as any of us can foresee. We are to have a mixed solution. Therefore, most of what is in the Bill has no effect but is intended to give the impression that it has. As the hon. Member for Perry Barr said, the Bill is intended to give the impression of changing the situation overnight and that is emphatically not so, on the admission of hon. Members opposite. I hope that my hon. Friends will, on educational grounds, register their views by their votes in the Division. Amendment negatived. Amendment No. 4 proposed: In page 1, line 7, leave out from “authority” to “shall” in line 9.—[Mrs. Thatcher.] Question put, That the Amendment be made:—— The Committee divided: Ayes 7, Noes 11. Division No. 1.1 Boyle, Sir Edward Eyre, Mr. Reginald Hill, Mr. J. E. B. Lane, Mr. David Montgomery, Mr. Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret van Straubenzee, Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Ernest Bacon, Miss Alice Evans, Mr. Fred Jones, Mr. J. Idwal Mahon, Mr. Simon Newens, Mr. Stan Oakes, Mr. Gordon Price, Mr. Christopher Price, Mr. William Short, Mr. Edward Woof, Mr. Robert It being after One o'clock, The Chairman adjourned the Committee without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order. Committee adjourned till Thursday, 12th March, 1970, at half-past Ten o'clock. [column 47-48] The following Members attended the committee Brewis, Mr. (Chairman) Armstrong, Mr. Bacon, Miss Boyle, Sir E. Evans, Mr. Fred Eyre, Mr. Hill, Mr. J. E. B. Jones, Mr. J. Idwal Lane, Mr. Mahon, Mr. Simon Montgomery, Mr. Newens, Mr. Oakes, Mr. Price, Mr. Christopher Price, Mr. William Short, Mr. Edward Thatcher, Mrs. van Straubenzee, Mr. Woof, Mr. [column 49] Appendix [Mr. John Brewis in the Chair] 10.30 a.m. Mr. W. R. van Straubenzee I beg to move Amendment No. 5, in page 1, line 8, to leave out from “1944” to “shall” in line 9. The Chairman It will be convenient to discuss at the same time the following Amendments: No. 36, in page 1, line 20, at end insert: No. 37, in page 1, line 20, at end insert: No. 35, in page 1, line 25, at end insert: No. 41, in page 1, line 25, at end insert: Mr. van Straubenzee Mr. Brewis, I hope that I might be allowed to deviate marginally from order at the outset by expressing the appreciation of hon. Members, I suspect on both sides of the Committee, at the very effective representations which have clearly been made as to our place of meeting. These Amendments affect the direct grant schools and certain other schools. I shall concentrate almost entirely on the direct grant schools. The purpose of the first Amendment is to deal with the exercise of the powers under Section 8. It is under some of those powers that the argument on direct grant schools arises. We ought to start by having clearly in mind the position under this [column 50]Bill as it affects direct grants, as stated by the right hon. Lady, the Minister, when she wound up the debate on Second Reading: Section 9(1) of the 1944 Act reads as follows: and this is the key to what we are now discussing— The 1953 Act extends that power in a material way, but I need not at this moment read out the relevant Section. The direct grant schools are directly affected by this Bill, although they are not specifically mentioned. It is important that we make the point absolutely clear because there were some who, finding that they were not mentioned by name, were not clear whether they were affected by the Bill. The right hon. Lady made that perfectly clear on Second Reading. Clause 4 provides that the Bill, if enacted, will come into operation. I trust that the right hon. Lady will make clear the timing of the effect of this Bill on direct grant schools. Let me explain the difficulty which is in the mind of some people. The Secretary [column 51]of State asserts roundly that local education authorities will be legally bound by the provisions of Clause 1(1). Looking at the matter as fairly and as equitably as I can, I thought that on Tuesday my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) peeled the Secretary of State like a banana. There was nothing left of what he was saying. He showed quite conclusively that the words “have regard to” gave him a total let-out. If I took the view of comprehensive reorganisation taken, for example, by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr. Christopher Price), I would share that Member's anxieties. But what the Secretary of State said was absolutely clear: He spoke with all the assurance of the law which is given to those who do not practise the law. As a result, he is clear, definite and firm. I believe that he is storing up trouble for himself in future, but we shall see. The Secretary of State asserts that, in exercising its power under Section 8, the local education authority is bound to have regard to whether the provision of the education at a direct grant school is based on ability and aptitude. If it does not show that regard then, in his words, that local education authority would not be “acting in accordance with the law” . When one of Her Majesty's Secretaries of State makes such pronouncement it is a serious matter, because all local education authorities are lawabiding. The combined effect of the Secretary of State's firm assertion as to what the law will be one month after the passing of this Bill and the timetable of the coming into force of the Bill, has led many people to assume that the provisos restricting a local education authority in respect of direct grant schools will come into force one month after the passing of the Bill. I remind the Committee of what the timetable is likely to be. We on this side of the Committee have already given graphic evidence of our anxiety to assist the Government in a constructive way in [column 52]their business. For example, a brilliant speech at the end of our last sitting was truncated in order to get on. If, therefore, we proceed in this agreeable and civilised way—a way in which our education debates should be conducted—then it is likely that this Bill, assuming there are no changes in the composition of Parliament will become an Act at the end of the summer and will therefore come into effect about 1st September. There is great anxiety that starting from 1st September, it will no longer be lawful for a local education authority to take up a place at the direct grant school where that school selects by reference to aptitude and ability. I should be greatful if the right hon. Lady would say, in as clear terms as possible, whether that is the interpretation which the Government puts upon this Bill. If so, I draw her attention to the catastrophic effects it will have, both upon local education authorities and upon the schools. I quote one case as an example, although not a particularly exceptional example, namely, the Royal County of Berkshire, part of which I have the privilege to represent. The County annually takes up about 1,250 places at direct grant schools. If Berkshire is to be expected, from September, to make separate arrangements for 1,250 of its pupils, then the result will be chaos. It is probable that the right hon. Lady, with her eagle eye, will direct our attention to Clause 2(1). She will probably say that our fears can be set at rest because that provision says that the authorities concerned must have regard to the need for fulfilling their duties. The words are “and exercising their power” . In other words, she will argue that it is appropriate for a local education authority to phase its direct grant provisions. I hope that the right hon. Lady will take careful advice on these matters. She obviously has extremely skilled advice at her disposal. I beg her to notice that the whole of Clause 2 has the emphasis and weight upon schools controlled by or directly within the authority of a local education authority—involving consultation with the teachers, the information to the parent, and the provision of plans by local authorities. It would be a very sorry result if an enterprising body applied—as any group of citizens in this country can [column 53]—to the courts for an interpretation of this provision. For example, a body which was immensely keen on comprehensive reorganisation might apply to the courts for a declaration that a certain local education authority, acting after 1st September, which is the date on which I assume the Bill will come into force, by sending young people to a direct grammar school which selects by aptitude and ability, is acting ultra vires. To put it no stronger, it would be an extraordinarily unhappy result if the Act were interpreted by the judges in that way. I want to be much more certain than I am that the fears which I have expressed are without foundation, and I expect a careful exposition of the situation from the right hon. Lady. 10.54 a.m. The second thing to which I draw attention is the extraordinary position of the hight hon. Lady vis à vis the Donnison Committee. The facts are all on the record. The Secretary of State, on Second Reading on 12th February, told us that he had received the Donnison Report on 11th February. This report has been prepared, but not yet published, by a very distinguished group of men and women, headed by Professor Donnison, whose name in academic and other circles stands high. The Committee is charged by the Government with looking at the matters which we are now discussing as well as wider matters concerning direct grant schools. Yet we have the admission of the Secretary of State that he drafted and published the Bill before he had even received the report of the Donnison Committee. By doing so he gives a mighty slap in the face to distinguished men and women who have devoted a great deal of time to this matter, and whose report, as has been generally known, was literally on its way. On what date does the right hon. Lady expect the Donnison report to be published? The Minister of State, Department of Education and Science (Miss Alice Bacon) I propose to say that. Mr. van Straubenzee I am much obliged. I will just prepare the ground for the right hon. Lady so that she has it at her beck and call. She will remember that. Mr. Kenneth Lewis I was at a meeting recently at which I was given the publication date for the Donnison report. I will not give it to the Committee. Many questions have been put down about this. Many people outside know the date when the Donnison report will be published, but Members of the House of Commons do not. Mr. van Straubenzee That would not be unusual. We are so accustomed to reading of major Government decisions in the Press that we have almost got used to it. Mr. Fergus Montgomery and non-decisions. Mr. van Straubenzee And non-decisions, but I am trying to be charitable on such an agreeable morning. For example, my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Stamford (Mr. Kenneth Lewis), who has been a persistent and determined searcher after the truth on this matter, as on many others, asked the Secretary of State a Question on 5th March, when he was told that the report would be published within the next four weeks. I am much obliged to the right hon. Lady for saying that she will tell us the date on which the report will be published, for it is directly relevant to the Amendment. She has a major burden of proof on her hands to show why a fundamental step should be taken in respect of direct grant schools without her having before her the report of the committee which she and her hon. Friends set up to look into this question. If I were a member of the Donnison Committee, my language about the Government would not be as calm and as parliamentary as mine is this morning. There is a tendency to try to place all direct grant schools into one tidy compartment. There is a direct grant system, and there are large number of direct grant schools, but they differ widely between themselves from one range to another. Mr. Fred Evans Does not every school? Mr. van Straubenzee I would not question that. I had not intended to go into this, but as the hon Member has invited me to do so, I will develop it a little, to show how considerable is the range in direct grant schools. If he feels [column 55]that I have misinterpreted the position, I hope that he will catch your eye. Mr. Brewis, and put me right. There are in England and Wales 178 direct grant schools, which range in size from approximately 350 to approximately 1,350, a wide numerical range. Between them, in 1967–68, they provided about 60,000 free places. They comprise day schools and boarding schools, and boarding schools with a day element and day schools with a boarding element. Denominationally, they include Roman Catholic schools, Methodist schools, Anglican schools and non-denominational schools. I have noted that we are much helped in this Committee by the powerful presence of the hon. Member for Bootle (Mr. Simon Mahon), and I have extracted from the Catholic Council Handbook, 1969, the figures for three northern Roman Catholic dioceses to show the major part played in secondary education provision by Roman Catholic schools. In the Roman Catholic diocese of Lancaster there are 6,936 places in the maintained secondary schools for Roman Catholic provision. The direct grant provision in that diocese is 3,735. In the Roman Catholic diocese of Leeds, in the maintained secondary schools for Roman Catholic provision there are 16,937 places. In the direct grant schools Roman Catholic provision is 4,708. In the diocese of Salford there are 25,660 in the secondary schools and 9,126 in the direct grant schools. This shows what a high proportion of denominational provision is embodied in the direct grant schools. I know that all hon. Members are deeply concerned, as are the hon. Member for Bootle and myself, not only about the denominational character of these schools, but about the appropriate provision from a denominational angle. Mr. Simon Mahon I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for providing those interesting figures. Has he the figures for the Liverpool diocese, which is probably the largest Catholic diocese in the country? Mr. van Straubenzee I will gladly look up the figures, but I think the hon. Gentleman will have the information very close to his hand, and I think it will be possible, if he catches your eye, Mr. Brewis, for him to give the figures if he cares to do so. [column 56] The schools are both girls' schools and boys' schools, all but two being single sex. They cover towns, cities and rural areas and they are not exclusive to one place. It is impossible to say that there is some kind of stereotype in schools which, for example, comprise the Manchester Grammar School, of great renown, the Hereford Cathedral School and St. Edward's, Liverpool, of great reputation. I include Oakham School, which we shall hear more about from my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Stamford (Mr. Kenneth Lewis) and the Convent of the Ladies of Mary at Scarborough. We are talking about a great diversity of schools and about schools which have voluntarily raised very large sums of money for their buildings. In 60 such direct grant schools the Governors have spent about £12 million in the last 22 years. No one knows better about the efforts and sweat involved in this than the hon. Member for Bootle and others who are equally concerned with denominational schools, either voluntarily aided or, as in this case, direct grant schools. All this aspect of the work has been done without any charge upon the State. We are talking about a wide range of schools and a wide range of social intake. This is one of the most important aspects of the direct grant schools, which I touched upon on Second Reading. These schools run the whole gamut, from parents who would otherwise be paying fees of about £350 or even £400 at an independent school, to parents who pay nothing. They will be parents of a boy or a girl who has a free place provided by the local education authority or by the governors, or parents of boys or girls, who are fee-payers but are totally exempt under the scales of remission from making any contribution. Therefore, they are a widely based social range of schools. In the vast majority, there is selection. The famous phrase about direct grant schools is that young people go to them “according to their capacity to profit by the education of the school.” It is true that, for some at the top academic range, this largely means academic achievement, but not exclusively so. 11.00 a.m. Those of us concerned with the denominational schools will know that it is the denominational preference of the parents [column 57]which will have priority over the academic achievement of the child. And they are a good bargain. I can prove this by reminding the Minister of State of what she said on 14th February, 1968. Defending the £20 per pupil cut in capitation grant to direct grant schools, she said: Miss Bacon I would much rather have waited to answer in my speech, but I must interrupt the hon. Gentleman here. Of course it is a bargain. The whole point that I was making is that it is a bargain because of the direct grant from the Government. Mr. van Straubenzee Precisely. But the point which the right hon. Lady has not fully taken is that her comparison was with other local education authority schools. That is a very fair comparison—— Miss Bacon That was not my comparison. Mr. van Straubenzee With respect, the right hon. Lady will find that in her quotation. It is a fair comparison, and on that basis, her phrase about a bargain is a fair comment. So we are getting a good bargain, great variety and a very broad social mix. Direct grant schools as a whole are far from blind about educational changes. One has only to talk to their headmasters, headmistresses and boards of governors to realise this. The Secretary of State himself paid great tribute to the willingness of voluntary-aided denominational schools to co-operate in a comprehensive re-organisation. I believe this to be equally true of the direct grant schools in principle. Selection at the age of 11 is not essen[column 58]tial to the existence of these schools. My hon. Friends and I have said publicly—I repeat it now—that we most emphatically are not wedded to this magic age of 11. I have long accepted that educational—not political—opinion has been moving away from that age for some time. But selection, yes. This is not heresy. Selection at the age of 16 is enshrined later in the Bill and at an earlier age for a pupil whom it is expedient to educate with pupils who have attained that age. So selection is not an issue: it is in the Bill for 16, for a bright 15 and, in exceptional cases, for a very bright 14. Some of us know such very bright children and some of us have been educated with them. My own experience of them at my school was that they were rather intolerable small boys, but at least one grew to great academic stature later. But the right hon. Lady accepts this—and there are places where direct grant schools are accepting at 13. There are beginning to be arrangements with the middle school concept of the direct grant reorganisation. Therefore, nothing in the Bill is fatal to the principle of selection. There is no reason, given good will on both sides and time, why these schools need not be brought into partnership in a comprehensive system. We do not accept that meaningful comprehensive provision must be universal, because we believe in variety, and particularly, if possible, in variety of choice for the parent. I hope that I have made the case. These schools are large in number and wide in variety, many of them are excellent and they form a very important part of the denominational provision. The right hon. Lady's advisers who no doubt have taken immense trouble on this point, have not yet reported. It must be wrong to put in the Bill a provision which is of vital importance to these schools. The right hon. Lady may be able to show us that these provisions will not come into force on 1st September, as is interpreted by those more able than myself to interpret words. But she must say that without equivocation and give her reasons. If, gradually, there were a change in the local authority provision in these schools, the Bill would still make a fundamental change in the arrangements between l.e.a.'s and direct grant schools, which is fundamentally wrong before we have the expert report of those who have examined this matter. [column 59] The problem in replacing this provision is mammoth. I have said that about 1,250 places are taken up by Berkshire each year. On a quick estimate, it would cost us about £500,000 to replace that provision or adapt it into a comprehensive system, having regard to the size of the schools concerned. We feel strongly about this in Berkshire, with such schools as Abingdon in our midst, which stands very high in the esteem of academic circles. Therefore, I hope that the right hon. Lady will be persuaded by the arguments, and will indulge herself a little in the absence of her right hon. Friend, that she will tell him when he returns that common sense and wisdom have prevailed with her and that she has accepted the Opposition Amendment in his absence. That could do nothing but add to his and our esteem of the right hon. Lady. Mr. Lewis We all appreciate the powerful speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. van Straubenzee) on this important subject. I echo his concluding words and hope that the right hon. Lady will accept the Amendment, which would be in her interests and those of the Secretary of State. Unfortunately, I missed the first sitting of the Committee for a reason not unconnected with this debate. On Tuesday I went to my constituency, which is somewhat unusual in the middle of the week, to attend a meeting of the trustees of Oakham School, whom I joined a little time ago because they told me that they thought they would be in some stormy waters, in conflict either with the Minister or with the l.e.a. or with both. I did so in the hope of being an honest broker, but what happened on Tuesday makes me admit that I failed in this respect, because the Oakham direct grant school decided to go independent. There are two direct grant schools in my constituency—Stamford, which has more day boys than boarders, and Oakham, where the position is reversed. I am sad that Oakham School has decided to go independent because I am a great believer in the direct grant schools, whose educational record is second to none—and I include the best of the independent schools in that. It is a splendid social mix, and if [column 60]hon. Gentlemen opposite want to get a social mix they will not find a better medium than the direct grant schools, and they ought not to seek to destroy them. But I ask the Committee to consider why the decision was made that Oakham School should go independent. It has had it in mind for some time, at the same time as it has been discussing with the local l.e.a. and the Ministry various important matters affecting its ability to carry on in the future. The decision was finally arrived at because it was felt that in the interests of the school itself no other way was open. 11.15 a.m. If I were to try to determine the forces against Oakham School that created this situation, I would say that partly those forces were the local Rutland County Council education authority—and I say that with a certain amount of sadness because I have many friends there, but I believe they have dragged their feet in this matter. Secondly, the Minister's policy for these schools was the factor which, behind the scenes, coloured every discussion on the question of remaining direct grant aided or going independent. The purpose of this Bill is to try to prevent selection, even open-ended selection. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. van Straubenzee)—and I have said this in my constituency—that there is nothing wrong with selection as such. We have it in every other aspect of our educational system. It is contained in this Bill and it goes right up to university. My only agreement with hon. Members opposite is that they say that there should not be selection at 11, but my party said that a long time ago. [Interruption.] I have repeated it on more than one occasion in my constituency. Some people have expressed surprise, and I have quoted the Leader of the Conservative Party in our last election manifesto. In recent years as a party we have not subscribed to this, and of course we are not going back into prehistoric times on this. Recently my party has not taken the line that 11 should be the age at which a child's future is determined. A late starter—and there are many of them—has a right to move ahead educationally just as a child who is bright from the beginning. In my own family I have an example of this which, if I needed to be convinced, would convince me that [column 61]selection should not be rigid at a given age but that there should be opportunities for advance at the ages of either 11, 12, 13 or 14 according to however briskly or slowly the child developed. In this Bill the Minister has created a climate which gives the impression in the country that the grammar school system as such, living as it will alongside the comprehensive system, for we believe that this is not only possible but right and in any case in my view it is inevitable that there will be grammar schools for a long time to come and also direct grant schools whatever Bills the Minister may pass, and therefore we have to think in terms of a mixed educational system—— Mr. Stan Newens The hon. Gentleman said that he did not accept the argument for selection at 11. I fully understand that he is asking for flexibility after the age of 11, but if grammar schools and direct grant schools are to exist alongside comprehensive schools catering for children from 11 upwards, there must be a process of selection at 11, whether or not it is by the 11-plus examination and whether or not there is flexibility after that time for removing children from one type of school to another. Surely in this respect it is not true that the hon. Gentleman is against selection at 11. There must be a process of selection in order to determine to which schools the children will go. Mr. Lewis In this Bill there is selection at 16. All I am saying is that, if there is selection at 11, let there also be selection at 12, 13 and 14 so that there may be transfers when children are academically ready to justify such a transfer or when their parents desire it. In so far as there is a grammar school situation as an island within a comprehensive system, the chances are that there would not be quite the same demand at later ages, but the opportunity should be available. If there is transfer at 13 or 14, there is no reason why there should not also be transfer at 11. I readily admit that in a grammar school system most transfers would take place at 11. All I am saying is that there would be transfers beyond that age. The Minister and the right hon. Lady are creating a climate in which decisions are being forced along at an unhealthy pace. This is dangerous, for it creates a position in which there is no time for consideration or for discussion which [column 62]could lead to healthy and helpful compromises. I am always of the opinion that without prolonging discussion for too long a period it is important that there should be opportunities for people to decide whether they can come from one side or another so as to make a compromise. But the right hon. Gentleman is so pressurising this field that, as with Oakham School so with others, we will soon be in a position where these schools will decide that if they are to get the “chop” they had better get out of the butcher's shop. The right hon. Lady must recognise that this will cause a considerable strain upon the resources of her Ministry, quite apart from the embarrassment that it will create for l.e.a.'s. Some time this month the second report of the Public Schools Commission will be made available, and it will deal with direct grant schools. Apparently the Minister could not wait for that before taking action, for the pressures from her Ministry against direct grant schools have been building up over the last year or two. She has not waited for this report to see whether such pressure was justified, but I would remind the Committee that in August, 1968, she had a swipe at them by reducing the grant from £52 to £32, at a time when costs were rising and when they were certain to rise more and it was difficult to make economies to bridge the gap which the cut imposed. At the same time the Minister also stopped the subsidy on milk. Certainly the direct grant schools found that the udders of the Ministry were beginning to run dry. There is another problem for these schools, and this again is a contributory factor to the reason for Oakham School going independent. These schools must seek permission from the Minister before they can put up their fees to their own independent pupils. The Ministry has been restricting these increases. A certain amount of almost horse trading has been going on with the presentation of the accounts and the proposal that a school needs so much money. The Minister says, “I will give you so much” , the school says, “That is not sufficient” and the Minister says, “I will give you a bit more” , and about three-quarters of the way up the ladder there is a settlement which is inadequate for the school but with which the Minister is satisfied. It is as a result of these two pressures [column 63]upon a school like Oakham and others that the decision which Oakham made the other day, and which others may be forced to make, has been necessary. I do not intend to provide figures of accounts from this particular school. I can only say that there will be a deficit this year and that there would have been a bigger deficit next year. This is because of the kind of educational prices and incomes policy which is being imposed by the Minister whereby the schools have to pay the prices but the Minister restricts the income. The schools have had to increase salaries and accept all the normal Burnham award increases. Oakham School, as with others in this sector, has gone independent because it wants to get out of the straitjacket. If I may coin a phrase, it has decided that it had better short-circuit the Minister. When the Donnison Committee reports, I have no doubt that we shall be told by the Minister—indeed, we may be told by the right hon. Lady today—that the Government could not care less about the difficulties that are imposed upon direct grant schools, or indeed how many of them go independent, since it is no part of their job to subsidise private education. I will come to that a little later but let me examine in particular, before I come to the general, exactly what has happened to what I believe was a possible promising outcome in Rutland County, because of the decision that has been forced upon this school. First, the local authority, because of Oakham School going independent, will have to pay a large sum of money to keep its pupils at Oakham School. It could be anything up to £10,000 annually. Secondly, if it recognises its own secondary education, it will have to provide new buildings. Certainly there will be increases in staff and all the services that go with the provision of new secondary education. This will cost the Ministry a considerable amount of money, and because the Rutland County Council will have to do this, at some expense to the right hon. Lady and her Vote, some other places will have to go short. If the Ministry has to spend money on this kind of activity, arising out of the Bill and other pressures on the direct grant schools, and if it spreads beyond the county of Rutland so that other direct grant schools going independent create a similar situation, [column 64]what will be the total cost? Where is the money to come from? Who will go short to pay for this? How will the Minister provide money to improve the comprehensive sector, in which she says she believes, if the extra commitments mean less available finance for doing away, for example, with the split schools, which I think both parties accept are not very satisfactory in the long run from a comprehensive point of view? That is the material fact of the matter. That is what it will cost. But apart from that, the County of Rutland loses its association with an ancient school. The school, by going comprehensive, may be less able to maintain the aim of its founders to provide education for local boys. Mr. J. Idwal Jones For the poor? 11.30 a.m. Mr. Lewis Including poor boys and rich boys. There are a great many poor boys in the County of Rutland going to Oakham School under the present system. The Government will make this more difficult. Mr. Jones To what extent has that school prevented the organisation of comprehensive education in the area? Mr. Lewis The school has not prevented comprehensive education there, as I can show. It has been trying to assist in getting a working arrangement between itself and the other schools in the county towards having a mixture of the grammar and comprehensive. What about the 11-plus, which the right hon. Lady and her colleagues want to get rid of? For a year or two, the county authority will have to buy into Oakham School those who now go on the 11-plus or at 12, 13 or 14-plus, for it has been agreed that there should be transfers at those ages. The county authority will have to pay the full fees for those boys to go to Oakham School. Going independent will enable the school to accept fee-paying day boys. So the Ministry has forced the situation that there will be 100 or 200 who go in under the county system, and those who fail the examination, whether at 11-plus, 12 or 13, will be able to go to Oakham School, if the headmaster will admit them, and their parents will pay for the privilege. The right hon. Lady is creating a class situation where it is possible to purchase an education in a school, the [column 65]very thing which she says she wants to avoid and which has always been criticised by her right hon. Friends, by her and by hon. Members opposite. Mr. Newens The hon. Gentleman has put the blame fairly and squarely for the developments at Oakham School on my right hon. Friend and the Government. As I understood it from what he said earlier, the Rutland authority was also very much concerned. As far as I recall, that is not an authority that has been dominated in recent years by Socialists, unfortunately. In those circumstances, would the hon. Gentleman like to clarify the position? If he can exonerate the Rutland authority completely and put the blame fairly and squarely on the Government, we should be interested, but if some of the blame attaches to the Rutland authority it should be pointed out that there are considerable rifts even on the side of the people who normally would support right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite. The Chairman Order. Interventions are getting rather long. I should be grateful if Members would keep them as short as possible. Mr. Lewis I am coming to the hon. Gentleman's point. I lay the blame fairly and squarely on the Government for creating an atmosphere which has precipitated the situation. If one had been able to hold it back it might not necessarily have taken place. It can also occur in other places. Miss Bacon I do not want to lengthen the hon. Gentleman's speech unnecessarily, but I do not follow what he is saying about Rutland and precipitating a situation. Mr. Lewis The right hon. Lady, in all innocence, can say to the Committee, though I doubt that many of us would believe her because we can prove the contrary, that she has spent the past few months assisting the direct grant schools and helping them maintain their direct grant status, promising that they would always be assisted to keep that status, and even in the Bill indicating to the world in general that the Government have a great love of the direct grant schools. The right hon. Lady knows perfectly well that she has sought to cane the direct grant schools at a time when caning [column 66]is going out. She has succeeded so effectively that Oakham School—and others will probably have to do the same—has decided that it wants no more of caning. Corporal punishment from the Department of Education and Science is out for the school and it is going independent. That is the short answer. Miss Bacon Rutland could have had a comprehensive scheme had it wished as long ago as July, 1966. The Rutland County Council declined to do anything or submit a scheme for reorganisation. Mr. Lewis I shall come to that, but the right hon. Lady has made my point for me. As long ago as 1966 she requested that a scheme should be put forward, and from that date there has been hanging over the heads of everyone in the county, the local education authority and the school, the threat that if they did not put forward a scheme something would be imposed on them. I come to the possibilities that there were in Rutland for the reorganisation of secondary education. A possibility which, surprisingly enough, their Member of Parliament supported—some people might have thought that he would not do so, because it meant something rather different from what had existed for some time—was that we should create in the county a sixth form college, with the Rutland Girls High School which we have created in recent years, Oakham School and the village colleges all combining. The proposal was that That was the scheme. It is now rather remote. It is not likely to come to fruition, but it is what I and others wanted, and what the headmaster of Oakham School had found. Why has it not been possible to secure acceptance of the scheme? The l.e.a cannot escape some responsibility in the matter, but, equally the Minister's attitude to Oakham School has not appreciated that it was itself trying to achieve acceptance of the scheme. Mr. van Straubenzee Does my hon. [column 67]Friend feel that perhaps it is doubly unfortunate that the experiment has not got off the ground in the light of the Secretary of State's admission in the Second Reading debate, to which my hon. Friend contributed massively, that there is very little experience in the whole field of the sixth form college as yet, which is one of the reasons for putting a special exemption in the Bill? Does he not feel that it is additionally unfortunate that we do not have the experience in Rutland to draw upon, so that the Secretary of State might have had rather more experience than he has. Mr. Lewis I entirely agree. It is a great tragedy that my county has not sought to go in for this, and I have said so. I have been somewhat puzzled by the attitude of the l.e.a. At a meeting on 27th May, 1968, it seemed to be completely unprepared to consider any form of reorganisation. Presumably it wished to continue working with Oakham School. Indeed, I had received assurances on that from the chairman of the l.e.a., the chairman of the county council and others. However, when the trustees asked the Department for a £16 increase in tuition fees in September, 1969, they did not receive any support from the l.e.a., and they got precious little support from the Minister. By January this year there seemed to be something of a change. By this time Oakham School was harassed financially, was getting the brush off in seeking co-operation from the l.e.a. and was getting ready to go it alone. It was then that the Chief Education Officer stated in a paper dated January, 1970, that: (a) that the change, if effected voluntarily, would in fact hold out better things for all our children and (b) that if the change is effected as the result of legal sanctions, whether it represents an improvement, or if this not the case, it at least does the smallest possible amount of harm.” I thought this was a move towards the sixth form college idea. The sixth form college in Rutland, while [column 68]Oakham remained a direct grant school, would have succeeded in achieving what my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. van Straubenzee) indicated a moment ago—a new experiment of a combination of the comprehensive and the grammar schools working together. Where did it fall down? Why has this not got off the ground, despite the discussion that has taken place? It has fallen down because the local education authority wanted complete control of the sixth form college. It indicated that it would not accept the control of the sixth form college by the headmaster of Oakham School—clearly the man with the most experience and expertise—co-operating with a direct grant school of the kind of which he is headmaster. 11.45 p.m. It was with this situation confronting me that I offered a compromise. I suggested that the headmaster of Oakham School should be the head of the sixth form college; that there should be a trustee or governing body of this college&semi that it should compromise equal numbers from the local education authority and from Oakham School, and that there should be either an independent chairman or, if this were not acceptable, a revolving chairman—a chairman from one side for two or three years, followed by a chairman from the other side. After three years of working these arrangements, I felt sure that the difficulties anticipated would be seen not to exist. This experiment would be worthwhile because it would be breaking new ground. There are certain problems, such as the changing of buildings. But these are administrative problems which could be resolved. I am sorry that the boat has been missed and that a trail has not been blazed. The local education authority will come to regret it because, once Oakham School goes completely independent, it will have to create its own system of secondary education. And, because it is not working with this very fine school, it will have something which is second best. I know that it can be said that there is nothing to prevent any local education authority from co-operating with a completely independent school. I hope that this is so. But I warn that if co-operation is sought from a completely independent school, if the school is successful, if it is getting its full numbers and is financially [column 69]viable, it is difficult for that school to co-operate in the same way with the local education authority, whether it is in Rutland or anywhere else, because it is fully involved and committed to dealing with its own problems. The Rutland education authorities should have taken this jump. Because they have refused the fence, they might find the ground somewhat sticky for them a little way ahead. I have spoken fully about what is a local matter because Bills go through the House dealing with matters which affect what is called “the country as a whole” —national policy. Bills affect little communities throughout the country which are remote from the House of Commons and this capital. It is important, therefore, when discussing this or any other matter, that we should see it in its local context. Having dealt with the particular, I turn to the general. I ask the right hon. Lady whether she and her right hon. Friend want to do away with direct grant schools. Is that their aim? Does she want to force them to go independent across the country? There is a very large number of direct grant schools—about 200. If she does want them to go independent, if she wants to demolish the direct grant schools, how will she make up the loss of the contribution which they make in the State sector of education? How will she achieve a working arrangement between the direct grant schools and the local education authorities on village colleges, sixth form schools, and the like, if she forces them out of business? If she creates a situation in which the local education authorities have to jump as she cracks the whip, then what happened in Rutland, with a direct grant school going independent, will obviously be repeated in other parts of the country. Does not the right hon. Lady recognise that these schools provide a bridge between the State system and the independent system which is the finest means of keeping some form of participation between these two sides of our educational system? It is no use the Secretary of State dealing with this matter on the basis of how he or his hon. Friends would like them to be. It is no good his dealing with the situation on the basis that he does not want to know about or have anything to do with the private sector. This would be well and good if the Secretary of State were in a position where he could get rid [column 70]of the private sector. He cannot get rid of it; the cost would be too great and, in any case, he would simply succeed in pushing it overseas. It would make no difference from the point of view of the people's right to send their children to whatever school they want them to attend. The private sector is here to stay. The direct grant system is the finest social mix there is. It should be encouraged, not discouraged. We are in favour of direct grant schools. We should, and will give these schools every encouragement. We say to those who do not like a working arrangement with their local education authority to say, “Stick it” by disregarding this shabby Bill and whatever threats may come from the Minister. We say, “Hold on to your seatbelts for a year or so and then we in the Tory Party will try to put right some of the Government's unfortunate mistakes” . Miss Bacon I am not bringing this debate to a conclusion,but I thought that if I did not speak at this moment I would not be able to answer some of the questions put to me until next week. In an hour and a half, we have had only two speeches and I thought that the next one might have gone on until after One o'clock. Let me answer one or two of the questions put to me about the Donnison report. It is now with us and will be published on 24th March. The Government are at present preparing a White Paper to be issued, it is hoped, in May, setting out the Government's intentions regarding education over the next decade. In the White Paper we shall able, I hope, to set out our plans and recommendations vis-a-vis the Donnison report. Sir Edward Boyle Will the White Paper cover higher education as well as the schools and university numbers? Secondly, will it include reference to the money to be made available over the next decade? Will it revise that which has been published in the recent White Paper on public expenditure? Miss Bacon I am not sure whether it is in order on this Amendment to answer a question about higher education in the coming White Paper, but the answer on higher education is “Yes” . If we go into this matter further at this stage, however, [column 71]we would be going far outside the scope of the Amendment. The hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. van Straubenzee) criticised the Government for not waiting for the Donnison Committee's report before publishing this Bill. I remind the Committee of the terms of reference of the Donnison Committee: The Government therefore were entitled to assume that when the Committee did report it would advise on how the direct grant schools could be fitted into a comprehensive system and not whether the direct grant schools could be fitted into a comprehensive system. This Bill is anticipating the fact that the Donnison Committee will report on what it was asked to do, that is, how these schools can be fitted into a comprehensive system. This is for the future because, after this Bill has been passed, there will have to be plans on how the direct grant schools can be fitted in if the local authorities are still to take up places at them. Regarding the direct grant schools, there are 178 grammar schools with just over 100,000 pupils. Each pupil is subsidised by the Government at the rate of £32 a year, with an extra £84 a year for every sixth former. There is a grant to recoup the cost of tuition fee remissions allowed to parents who cannot afford the fees. The cost to my Department is £6 million. They must offer 25 per cent. free places to local authorities. There is a good deal of misunderstanding about the free places. They are not free to the local authorities. The local authorities have to pay the fees for the children whom they send to the direct grant schools. The local authorities pay fees for about 60 per cent., that is, 60,000 pupils, and the cost to the local authorities is £9 million. The proportion of places taken up by local authorities at individual schools varies from none to 100 per cent. The income of the direct grant schools is made up in this way: fees paid by parents £6 million, fees paid by local authorities for the pupils they send £9 million, and a grant from my Department of £6 million. The hon. Gentleman said that I said this was a good bargain. [column 72]Without the grant, the fees to the parents and the local authorities woud be much higher. 12 noon. Some direct grant schools have co-operated very well in a comprehensive pattern, but I must admit that there are some direct grant schools which are holding up schemes for comprehensive education. I pay tribute to the Roman Catholic direct grant schools, which have co-operated very well in the schemes for secondary reorganisation. One direct grant school, St. Ann's in Southampton, has already become a fully comprehensive school, fees for virtually all the pupils being paid by the local education authority. Similar proposals have been agreed for St. Anthony's in Sunderland. The direct grant schools are a very varied group. It cannot be said that they are all of one pattern. A few of them are famous, large and highly selective regional grammar schools. More are well established local grammar schools, much like the maintained grammar schools. Some are boarding schools. Many are Roman Catholic schools, providing an academic education for Roman Catholic children of a fairly wide range of abilities and drawing from a wide area, and there are schools which do not fit into any of these descriptions. Taking direct grant grammar schools as a whole, their curricula, teachers, equipment and costs are much the same as those in maintained grammar schools. The achievements of their pupil appear to be similar to those of pupils of comparable ability in other grammar schools coming from the same kind of social background. Since the work, resources and achievements of this group cannot, for the most part, be distinguished from those of maintained grammar schools, I do not think that there is any case for treating them differently from maintained grammar schools, which is precisely what we are talking about this morning. The hon. Gentleman said that there was a wide social spread and a broad social mix within the direct grant schools. I have always felt that this is a fallacy. Hon. Gentleman are shaking their heads. I am in a difficult position this morning, because I cannot tell the Committee what I have read in the report which is to be published. All I can say is that, when the Donnison report is published, I hope that [column 73]the hon. Member for Wokingham will read very carefully what it has to say about the subject. I cannot go further than that this morning. Mr. van Straubenzee The right hon. Lady is being naughty. Miss Bacon Yes, I know. Mr. van Straubenzee I chastise her very gently. She is now half taking off the veil and putting it on again, which is not fair to hon. Gentlemen on this side of the Committee. I should have thought that we could all agree, whatever our view of the direct grant schools, that in a large number of them there is a very wide social mix. Of course we shall pay the closest attention to this distinguished report, but meanwhile, the right hon. Lady should not tantalise us in this way. Miss Bacon I cannot answer the hon. Gentleman's question. If I do so, I shall be accused of taking off the veil again. Sir E. Boyle The right hon. Lady said that there was no case for treating these schools differently from maintained schools. Does not that comment assume that all schools should be either fully independent schools or fully maintained schools? Surely that is to beg the whole question. There are those of us, both in the House and in another place—and I am thinking of people like the noble Lord James—who hold strongly that there are real advantages in having a certain number of schools neither fully maintained nor completely independent. Miss Bacon I do not want to comment on that point—I might be accused again of taking off the veil. What we are discussing this morning is the Bill, which says that local authorities must not take up places at any school, including direct grant grammar schools, where admission to the school is based on selection. The hon. Gentleman at the beginning of his speech asked me some pertinent questions about how the Bill will operate, particularly with regard to timing. As he said, it will come into operation one month after the passing of the Act. The Bill does not say, and my right hon. Friend at the last sitting of the Committee [column 74]did not say it says, that from the commencement of the Act the authority shall secure that secondary education shall be provided in non-selective schools. It says that the authority shall that result. What the hon. Gentleman has said about the timing for direct grant school applies equally to grammar schools and secondary modern maintained schools. The hon. Gentleman should compare this with Section 8(2)(a) of the 1944 Education Act, which did not require local education authorities to get rid of all-age schools directly the Act came into being on 1st April, 1945. When the Bill becomes an Act, the plans which local education authorities send to my right hon. Friend will have to show on what basis local authorities propose to take up places at direct grant schools. Clause 3 gives my right hon. Friend power to call for revised plans from local authorities which have already had a plan passed. The Bill does not in terms enable the Secretary of State to withdraw approval to existing arrangements, but it does enable him to consider the local authority's existing—I stress the word “existing” —and proposed future arrangements when he considers the plans for eliminating selection. This means that the hon. Gentleman's fear that immediately the Bill becomes law all the children will have to be withdrawn from the direct schools is without foundation. The Bill gives my right hon. Friend the power, not only in proposals which come from those local authorities which have not yet submitted a plan, but also to call for revised proposals from those which have submitted a plan. Those two sets of proposals, new proposals and revised proposals, must show how the direct grant schools take in the children from the local authorities. If that is done by means of selection according to ability and aptitude, the plan will be turned down, and this will not be allowed. Mr. van Straubenzee This passage in the right hon. Lady's speech does not come entirely as a surprise, but it is helpful to have it authoritatively stated by her. Just as under Clause 2 there is a provision that the Secretary of State may approve plans by stages, so, I take it, he could also approve the change in the taking up of direct grant places by stages; [column 75]in short, he could phase the provision for the taking up of direct grant places? Miss Bacon I cannot commit my right hon. Friend on what he does about any particular plan. The plans have to come to my right hon. Friend and be approved by him, but he has made it quite clear that he would not approve plans which envisaged selection according to ability and aptitude, either for direct grant schools or for maintained grammar schools. If this were in the plan, the plan would be rejected. The Bill seeks to abolish selection, and it would be utterly wrong, while abolishing selection at the age of 11 or 12 for maintained grammar schools, to allow some kind of super selection for direct grant schools. That is why the Clause covers both direct grant grammar schools and maintained grammar school, and it is why I urge the Committee to reject the Amendment. Mr. Montgomery I do not understand why the Government are so determined to “knock” the direct grant schools. If a direct grant school finds it impossible to continue and feels that it cannot go into the independent sector and therefore has to go into the public sector, has the right hon. Lady given thought to the extra cost which this will put on the Exchequer? Miss Bacon As I have demonstrated in my speech, direct grant grammar schools already cost the Exchequer and local authorities a considerable amount of money. Mr. Montgomery But in this event they will cost more. Miss Bacon This is what the hon. Gentleman is asserting. I assume that he has worked this out carefully before making his assertion and is not just declaring it. We are not discussing the whole future of direct grant grammar schools, although I hope before long that we shall be able to do so. What we are discussing this morning is whether or not local authorities will be able to send children by some kind of selection to direct grant grammar schools when selection is being abolished for maintained grammar schools. Mr. J. E. B. Hill We are grateful to the right hon. Lady for at any rate making a flurry of one veil and giving us [column 76]the date of publication of the Donnison report. It is clear that we shall have to come back to this subject later. I was interested when she said that the terms of reference of the Donnison Committee amounted to saying how the direct grant schools were to be “fitted in” . This is a new phrase. What struck me about the Donnison terms of reference was their less sweeping nature than the Newsom terms of reference, which were to integrate the independent boarding schools. Miss Bacon I think the phrase is “participate” —that is what I said. 12.15 p.m. Mr. Hill I agree. “Participate” seems to me different from “integrate” . It is less sweeping, so I suppose that in the terms of reference there is some elbow room, if the Commission recommends and the Government wish, for leaving some future for the direct grant schools and system. Amendment No. 5 is so comprehensive that it has pulled in Amendments Nos. 36 and 37, with which I was directly concerned, which dealt with the Secretary of State's powers under Section 100(b) of the 1944 Act to make grants to the schools and under Section 101(c) to make payments towards fees and expenses. I have also added in Amendment No. 41 a specific statement about fees payable for independent day schools—not receiving direct grants, but much used by local education authorities. They are the subject of the Donnison report. They are doing a great service to the l.e.a.s, since otherwise so many places would not be taken up. I have in mind, because I know it, the rôle played by the King's College School, Wimbledon, and, in my own area, by Ipswich School, where places are taken up by the East Suffolk Education Authority. Such places would be very expensive if the l.e.a. had to provide the buildings and the rest. I should be satisfied if the Government preserved inviolate the Secretary of State's powers under Section 100. The phrase in Clause 1, about having regard to whether would make the powers under Section 100 virtually unusable, unless the right hon. Lady has something of Lord Nelson about her and could turn a blind eye—— Miss Bacon First the Seven Veils, now Lord Nelson. Mr. Hill I would rather that the right hon. Lady was Lord Nelson than Salome. If the Amendments are not accepted, I think the pass has been sold. The right hon. Lady said that it need not all happen at once, but the schools cannot know what their future is and they must feel very apprehensive if the Clause is not amended. The direct grant system covers such a range of schools, including junior schools. One welcome thing which we shall get from the Donnison report is a thorough survey. Two things which most direct grant schools have in common are a measure of selection and some element of fee-paying, and, necessarily therefore, parental choice. These are both essential to preserve the autonomy of direct grant schools. To give up either entirely—that is not to say that they cannot be modified—would produce an unhappy situation. After all, these schools depend on some selection to function. Demand for places has consistently exceeded supply. For that reason alone, therefore, I do not see how the schools can be filled without some selection. The real criterion must be whether any child is likely to benefit from the type of education offered. Then, having regard to the educational aims of the school, there must be reference to ability and aptitude. The element of fee-paying is often attacked by the critics of the system. I would stand boldly in defence of fee-paying education for those parents who want it. It is an essential exercise in freedom that parents should be able to spend their money in procuring for their children, if they think fit, a different, a special and probably more intense form of education than they suppose they could get in the maintained schools in the area. This is no reflection on the maintained schools. It is simply that, if we are to have a society in which parents and people generally can follow their own wishes within the law, it is natural that parents—just as they spend more money on houses for example—should wish to go for a particular kind of schooling, perhaps instead of running a car. That is a perfectly proper aim. Another advantage of fee-paying is greater parental involvement. Mothers and fathers become much more interested and [column 78]have some of the customer's curiosity. I find it difficult to see why fee-paying should be so objectionable below 18 and acceptable above. A parallel, in a very different level of education, is that the Save The Children Fund, when operating play groups in the most difficult areas with Government grants, have found that they get a better parental response if they charge a fee for attendance, however small—2d. or even 1d. a morning. This somehow links the parent to the educational work. At this other extreme, fee-paying has a great educational and social benefit. The right hon. Lady gave the figures for finance. I would stress the considerable extra burden placed on parents over the last few years. There was the reduction in the grant at the time of the education cuts in 1968, by £20 per pupil a year, and neither the 1967 nor the 1969 Burnham awards resulted in any extra grant. That was the first time, I think, that that had happened. Similarly, if, in the forthcoming Burnham award, no extra grant is made, this will again mean a sharp increase in fees—plus the 8½ per cent. superannuation contribution which, reflected in the fees, comes to about £20 or £30 a year extra. This is having to be found by parents who pay the full fees. Miss Bacon But they do not pay the full fees. I know that the hon. Member means the full fees charged, but they are not the full cost. Even then, they are subsidised. Mr. Hill I appreciate that. I meant the full fees as they emerge after the payment of direct grants. But the advantage of the direct grant system is that fees to the poorer families are tempered, so children from poorer families whose parents wish, and who have the ability and aptitude and who will benefit from the education—all loaded phrases, I am afraid—are not prevented from attending. The local authorities, of course, get some benefit from the direct grant schools, apart from the bargain, which is substantial. If they had to pay £164 to another local authority when taking up a place outside their own area up to the age of 16 and £289 over the age of 16, this would make a great contrast to the £140 which the right hon. Lady gave us in the 1968 debate. My attention has been drawn to a very robust defence of the direct grant system [column 79]by two direct grant schools in Coventry, Bablake School and King Henry VIII School, who point out that, but for their provision, the local authority would have to provide primary education for about 190 more children, and that they think that the two schools between them probably save the Coventry Local Education Authority no less than £150,000 a year. In addition, the governors here, and no doubt at other direct grant schools, provide some governors' scholarship place—in this case, 120—at no cost either to the local authority or to parents. The impressions seems to have been given that central Government has to make an unduly heavy contribution. But, one way or another, education is being provided in these schools which would have to be provided elsewhere if these schools did not exist. My calculations show that the cost of providing secondary education in a direct grant school compares favourably with that in the equivalent maintained school, especially if we allow for the considerably higher ratio of the more expensive sixth form places provided which is about 24 per cent. in the direct grant sector, whereas in the maintained secondary sector it is naturally a great deal smaller, at any rate at the moment, and is between 6 and 7 per cent. We also have to allow for the capital expenditure and loan content, which the State gets for nothing from a direct grant school. The figures I have been given show that the cost per pupil per annum in the direct grant school is about £183 which, as I have said, a high proportion of sixth form places, and in the maintained sector it is £179 plus £23 for the element of capital expenditure and loan charges. Thus the direct grant place seems to be a more economic provision in terms of real resources. 12.30 p.m. I pass to two important matters. The right hon. Lady said that the conception of the social spread and the benefits from it are somewhat fallacious. We must obviously read carefully what the Donnison Committee has to say. I do not think there can be much doubt that the direct grant schools have provided in the past—and will, I hope, continue to do so in the future, as other grammar schools have done in the past—an important ladder of opportunity for very able children, [column 80]especially those from poorer homes. In my view, this is a vital rôle that they have played because the ablest children have gone to the top in that way and have made a contribution to national life out of all proportion to their number. If the direct grant schools are forced either into the comprehensive system or into the fully maintained system, it is bound to lessen the opportunities for these children. Mr. Newens I cannot for a moment accept that children who go to comprehensive schools will have less opportunity that those in some of the direct grant schools. In fact, a high proportion of the children who have been taken into direct grant schools as so-called “poor children” have been creamed off by an intensive selection process, and these children will get just as good an opportunity in the comprehensive sector. Mr. Hill The hon. Gentleman has stated the reverse point of view. I hope he noted that I said “the very able children from the poorest homes” . I agree that one hopes a comprehensive system will generate much larger sixth forms. The “pool of ability” means nothing if it does not, but the very able children in the poor neighbourhoods have had this ladder which enabled them to go quite quickly into an intense educational atmosphere. I have in mind one particular individual and school, namely, Sir Ernest Barker, a miner's son, and all that he gained in the early part of this century from going to Manchester Grammar School. I should like to quote from The Times Educational Supplement of 14th May, 1965: Then it quotes Sir Ernest Barker's own tribute to Manchester Grammar School: and then he mentioned the names of some of those who taught him. That was a classic example, but there were many less well known people than Ernest Barker who profited in that way. Therefore, I believe it is a loss which the Government, if they insist on this policy, [column 81]must realise is part of the price which has to be paid. It must diminish the opportunity for the ablest children from the poorer homes and areas. Not many outside critics have examined our education system in great detail, but a study was made about three years ago by an educationist who came to compare British with American education. In America the comprehensive system has widely developed. He found the direct grant system fascinating, typically British, in the unique government supported variation on a State educational pattern. He is Mr. James D. Koerner, who, in advance of the publication of his book, wrote an article in the Daily Telegraph on 25th February, 1966, in which he spoke of the direct grant schools in these terms: The second great function that I think the direct grant schools carry out is that they provide the bridge between the maintained and the wholly independent sector. Clearly the whole system is in a way anomalous and therefore it cannot appeal to bureaucrats with a tidy mind. I am not surprised that a Minister speaking for the Department of Education and Science and having as her first charge all the duties of promoting and developing a comprehensive system in the maintained sector should prefer to have a completely clear run, as it were, but the fact is that these direct grant schools, because they are autonomous and independent, stand as a bulwark to the independent sector of education. I am quite certain that in any free democracy one must maintain a healthy independent sector of education. This is absolutely vital for the maintained sector as well as for those who may be educated in the independent sector, to provide competition in innovation and advance, but also to provide a safeguard against the monolithic tendency of all governments when running a maintained educational system, to abrogate more and more power into their grasp. This Bill is an instance of that, in that the balance between the education authorities and the Government [column 82]has been tipped in favour of the Government. Equally it is undesirable that this independent sector, in the facts of economic life today, should necessarily be the preserve of only the better-off people. It is independence of mind and family attitude that one wants to encourage, and the direct grant system seems precisely to facilitate that. That is why I think from a national point of view we want to provide this system. I say nothing of the denominational aspect of it because other speakers are better qualified to refer to it. Essentially some alternative options to the broad and no doubt very fine maintained sector—as I hope it will be—is desirable in our society. I do not profess in advance of Donnison to his views on exactly how it should be done. Clearly there is room for a great deal of movement, except I think on the two factors indispensable to autonomy, which must retain a measure of selection and also of fee-paying if parental choice is to survive. As drafted, the Bill seems to rule that out and, therefore, I hope the Minister will accept the Amendments, bearing in mind that all we are seeking to do is to preserve the Minister's existing powers unfettered. It will be possible at a later stage, after more consideration, for the Government to alter those powers after due reflection. To do so in advance prejudges the Donnison report and the whole debate that must follow the publication of the White Paper. Therefore, I hope that some of the Amendments, and particularly the two in my name relating to Section 100 of the 1944 Act, will be accepted. Mr. Mahon When I am in the atmosphere of a House of Commons Committee Room, listening to the reasonable voices of members of the Conservative Party explaining their regard for the direct grant system and the education system as a whole, I listen to them with interest and then I find myself thinking that I wished it really was that way. I never found it that way during a fairly substantial experience of living in a great city. For anyone in this country to regard members of the Conservative Party as being the only people who have a full appreciation of the direct grant schools and system is completely is fallacious and erroneous. No hon. Member has a higher regard [column 83]for the direct grant system than I have. Most of the direct grant schools with which I have been connected have been fully vocational schools. How can one say in words how much one appreciates the complete surrender of a lifetime in vocationalism to the education of other people's children? Words are not adequate to describe my appreciation and that of other hon. Members and millions of parents, not only in this country but all over the world, of those people who sacrificed themselves in many of the direct grant schools of which I am speaking. It is right for the Opposition to probe the attitudes of Members of Parliament about not only direct grant schools but their attitude to voluntary schools in general. Nobody has a greater appreciation than my right hon. Friend and the Secretary of State of the direct grant schools and the voluntary schools. Indeed, their appreciation is equalled only by the monumental appreciation of the hon. Member for Birmingham, Handsworth (Sir E. Boyle) in the past. It is with great regret that I hear that he is not to remain a Member of the House to continue to give us the benefit of the wisdom and guidance which he has given us for so many years. 12.45 p.m. One great direct grant school in Merseyside that I particularly think about is a famous girls' school, the Seafield Grammar School for Girls, a convent school run by the Sisters of the Sacred Heart. It was placed inside the industrial borough of Bootle and the orders were founded for the education of the poor. Many of the direct grant schools have been forced out for valid reasons to more salubrious neighbourhoods, and therefore the advantage has gone to other authorities. Many of us with direct grant schools in our industrial midst have had to find new methods of trying to educate our children up to the proper standard. I was grateful to the hon. Member for Wokingham for providing the figures, which were most illuminating and give us some idea of the tremendous contribution which the builders of direct grant and voluntary schools have made to our society. No Government can lightly dismiss that. Anything that happens to direct grant schools must be for the benefit of the country, for the continued improved [column 84]education of the children, and that is what I hope will take place. One hon. Member spoke about the great broad social mix. Even accepting that a degree of social mix is taking place in the direct grant schools on Merseyside, could anyone say for a moment that it really was a great broad social mix? No one spoke this morning about the fact that through the application of the present system and the selection that takes place 80 per cent. of the children on Merseyside are left without the high standard of education available in the direct grant schools. My interest in education was aroused when I became a member of an examination panel. As anyone can see, my experience is purely practical. I was not given the opportunity of a higher academic education. I was at elementary school for a while. What is the attitude of the party opposite towards the problem of the 80 per cent. who do not get those opportunities? No one here would want to get rid of direct grant schools simply for the sake of doing so. If I thought that all our children were being given the excellent education available in direct grant schools, there would be no pertubation on the Labour benches about the situation in the country. But that is not happening, and someone must do something about it. The hon. Member for Rutland and Stamford (Mr. Kenneth Lewis) talked about direct grant schools getting the “chop” . I am sure that he could have used a more gracious phrase. If I thought for one moment that direct grant schools would get the “chop” , I would not support the Government. But they are not getting the “chop” . I can speak with assurance on this. If anyone intended to get rid of the direct grant schools, I should be very irate, but that is not the position. Does anyone think that I would defend any party or Government that had in mind the destruction of the direct grant schools that I am talking about? Let me put it as plainly as this. We Catholics on Merseyside would have made no progress at all without people having been picked out here and there to produce the leaders we produced. There is no argument about that. But times are moving on, and we have discerned that this system is not good enough and that we have been left with a tremendous [column 85]social problem. I do not want to talk about Wokingham and Rutland, because I am not entitled to speak about those areas; I know very little about them. But I know a great deal about the Liverpool waterfront, and even among ourselves there is the tremendous privilege of selection. The hon. Member for Norfolk, South (Mr. J. E. B. Hill) talked about Sir Ernest Barker and the Manchester Grammar School. Sir Ernest was very generous in saying that he had everything. Of course, he had everything, and he took full advantage of it. How fortunate he was! That is marvellous, and everyone would say that that is the way things should be. Right hon. Gentlemen on both sides of the House appreciate the advantages of Manchester Grammar School. I am not objecting to that. I want the advantages to be spread, and they were not spread successfully until the Labour Party and the present Government started to advance their educational ideas. Mr. Reginald Eyre Where does the hon. Gentleman stand? I understand that the Government's position is that destruction of the direct grant schools, including Manchester Grammar School, is essential to produce social progress among the other 80 per cent. that the hon. Gentleman talks about. Does he take the view that the destruction of the direct grant schools is essential? Mr. Mahon I do not. I have not even thought of it happening in the context of what my party is doing. I take it that the absorption and co-ordination of the schools in any area will lead to an extension of the sort of education system I want. Of course, we shall not get there in a hurry. We can go too fast and too slow. I know all about these dangers because I was on an education committee for years and years. I do not hold the dogmatic views of some members of my party on education. There is a remarkable happening at one direct grant school on Merseyside. The teachers, who have a high degree of educational qualification, go out from the convent they live in to the poorest parts of Merseyside. We have benefited greatly from this. Our social standards have been raised because of this and because of the integration that has gone on. That is what we want to see. Those teachers are [column 86]leaving a direct grant school to go into the dockside areas to teach, and we need that. I do not want to inconvenience the Committee by prolonging my speech or to spoil the atmosphere created by hon. Gentlemen opposite. The debate has been most pleasant to listen to. Perhaps on another occasion I shall have the opportunity to say more on the subject, but it would be wrong for me to let it be said in the country that the sacrifices, vocational service and the contributions to our great education systems made by the direct grant schools were appreciated only by Members on one side of the Committee. Mr. David Lane I shall wind up the debate very briefly, because I know that the Committee wants to come to a decision on the Amendment this morning. My hon. Friends have made a powerful case, which makes my job easier. The right hon. Lady the Minister of State speaks with such charm that we hate having to harden our hearts and minds to resist her arguments, but she has not answered our case, although up to a point she has been helpful. It is good to know that the White Paper will be published in May, and it is exciting to know that it will cover higher education as well as other matters. We still believe that the Government are prejudging Donnison in various matters, but we are reassured—and it will be a crumb of comfort to the schools concerned—to hear the right hon. Lady make it absolutely clear that there is no question of the schools being under sentence of upheaval at one month's notice. The hon. Member for Bootle (Mr. Simon Mahon) said some interesting things that we would have liked to probe further. I cannot help feeling after his tribute to the direct grant schools that the Government are showing a very strange sort of appreciation of their contribution by the provisions of the Bill. He said that these schools would not get the “chop” . I wonder whether he has really grasped the threat to them by the Bill. Occasionally he seemed to imply that if we cannot level up we shall have to level down. I dare say that he did not mean that, but some of us have that impression. I hope that we can return to this question on another occasion. As we see it, the blow inflicted by this provision is first a blow to educational [column 87-88]excellence. I remind the Committee of one sentence in the Crowther Report: That is our fear of the provision. It is a blow, too, at social harmonisation. The right hon. Lady tried to play this down by suggesting that the social mix was not really such a wide mix as many of us have felt. However wide it is, it cannot be denied that this provides a social mix. It is a valuable bridge between the maintained and independent sector, and in their hardness of heart towards these schools the Government are knocking down this bridge, just as the whole Bill strikes a blow against partnership between the Government and local authorities. It must heighten our suspicion that the Government's real aim is to get as near as possible to a total State monopoly in education. The financial implications have been well covered by my hon. Friends. My calculation is that the capital cost of providing within the maintained system places for the 60,000 pupils now going to the direct grant schools would be, on the figures my hon. Friend quoted for Berkshire, about £25 million all over the country, which is a large sum. In the matter of the direct grant schools to which our Amendment No. 5 is directed, we believe that the Government are being irresponsible educationally, socially, and financially. Their attitude smacks of spite and obstinacy, and we cannot help suspecting that they are allowing doctrinaire prejudice to prevail over common sense. We have suspicions on a number of scores, and I hope that my hon. Friends will translate our suspicions and uneasiness into a strong vote for the Amendment. Question put, That the Amendment be made:— The Committee divided: Ayes 6, Noes 8. Division No. 2.] Eyre, Mr. Reginald Hill, Mr. J. E. B. Lane, Mr. David Lewis, Mr. Kenneth Montgomery, Mr. van Straubenzee, Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Ernest Bacon, Miss Alice Evans, Mr. Fred Jones, Mr. J. Idwal Mahon, Mr. Simon Newens, Mr. Stan Price, Mr. William Woof, Mr. Robert It being One o'clock, The Chairman adjourned the Committee without Question put, pursuant to Standing Order. Committee adjourned till Tuesday, 17th March, 1970, at half-past Ten o'clock. The following Members attended the committee: Brewis, Mr. (Chairman) Armstrong, Mr. Bacon, Miss Boyle, Sir E. Evans, Mr. Fred Eyre, Mr. Hill, Mr. J. E. B. Jones, Mr. J. Idwal Lane, Mr. Lewis, Mr. Kenneth Mahon, Mr. Simon Montgomery, Mr. Newens, Mr. Price, Mr. William van Straubenzee, Mr. Woof, Mr. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc committee consist follow member mr john brewis chair armstrong mr ern durham northwest bacon miss alice minister state department education science boyle sir edward birmingham handsworth evans mr fred caerphilly eyre mr reginald birmingham hall green hill mr j e b norfolk south jones mr j idwal wrexham lane mr david cambridge lewis mr kenneth rutland stamford column mahon mr simon bootle maude mr angus stratfordonavon montgomery mr fergus brierley hill newen mr stan epping oake mr gordon bolton west price mr christopher birmingham perry barr price mr william rugby short mr edward secretary state education science thatcher mrs margaret finchley van straubenzee mr w r wokingham woof mr robert blaydon mr k bradshaw committee clerk tuesday march mr john brewis chair chairman like apologise hon member meet today room hope future shall able arrangement question propose mrs margaret thatcher obviously objection sitting motion express hope shall room long morning extremely difficult far library usual facility house shall protest vigorously sitting hope express mr brewis fulfil chairman shall ready protest sitting question agree chairman call amendment attention fact adequate notice amendment give general rule intend manuscript amendment sheet give propose grouping amendment table hon member want amendment clause page line begin insert mrs thatcher beg amendment page line leave subsection insert happy follow amendment discuss time amendment page leave line amendment page line leave authority shall line amendment page line section insert amendment page line leave regard need securing insert secure september amendment page line leave second insert amendment page line leave need securing insert secretary states intention amendment page line begin insert area amendment page line leave secondary education provide insert provision secondary education amendment page line leave insert shall amendment page line leave selection insert selection reference ability aptitude amendment page line end insert fix age amendment page line end insert hope shall able division exactly one depend reply edward shortsecretary state order mr brewis chairman yes mrs thatcher amendment design elicit right hon column intention subsection far think subsection give effect intention bill publish right hon gentleman speech report teacher october headline bill stop selection right hon gentleman report say indicate proper way vary section act major bill amend act event draftsman difficulty small bill difficulty apparent drafting right hon friend member birmingham handsworth sir e boyle say second reading report c official report conflict section act apparent instruction give clause section act draft reference lay local authority duty secure certain objective specify detail way objective achieve way draft legislation way ahead time theory management objective comparatively new section forerunner education management objective interesting move management objective minister apparently move management minute direction section appear override section sure view clause part subsection specify duty local education authority continue phrase section interpret comparatively widely amend enfield case raise question character school right hon gentleman occasion remember judgement number thing say constitute fundamental character school word think narrow take mean natural context decision definition word character narrow education act stand provision permit wide variety method achieve objective provide view different age ability aptitude pupil provide different school age group variety instruction provide theory school number school similar intake word provide tripartite system bipartite system totally comprehensive system understand minister offer instruction local authority shall construe duty section offer number instruction subsection language similar language right hon gentleman use offer instruction simple method amendment add paragraph subsection say fulfil duty local education authority shall particular regard need secure primary secondary education provide separate school need provision nursery school need pupil suffer disability mind body expediency attempt construe minister try clause reference language govern act doubt word regard need effective minister wish example need column authority regard secure provision nursery education need observe breach imagine minister fail add paragraph e subsection think way need observe breach bind instruction object secure minister view instruction table amendment drafting sense way effective minister want doubt method choose effective want doubt return override section tell local authority offer different age ability aptitude instruction training provide system grammar secondary modern school provide provide area system totally comprehensive come question second reading happen override instruction training sufficient age ability aptitude area provide totally comprehensive system building characteristic area yield arrangement local authority observe duty lay section observe apparent instruction subsection clause view ascertain hon friend table amendment provide case doubt provision section shall override amendment substantial doubt precise meaning minister say clause illustrate refer particular case bournemouth case publicity accord minister subsection local education authority column selection ability aptitude take area bournemouth regard need mean need educational ground bournemouth happen unique scheme right hon gentleman know publish detail lecture give londonderry april chief education officer set result achieve embark scheme basis traditional method selection operate past deficient give maximum educational opportunity pupil think great deal wastage inefficient secondary education draw scheme act decide way avoid wastage ensure boy girl transfer school course lead o level gce take ability manifest opportunity level system grammar school bilateral school school call bilateral secondary modern second group child o level course go level course year adopt special method selection base quota system depend way examination describe follow verbal reasoning test set primary school stage routine school record guidance b score test take send score pupil aggregate computer put total order size select show school reach score come list number name child measure ability school call quota c primary school tell nominate number child allocation grammar school form panel staff school teach pupil time primary school career examine school record individual child admission grammar school d primary school tell nominate limit child gce class secondary modern school name bilateral specialised system column examination appear work give class educational opportunity pupil parent say year scheme operate little worried reaction year seven parent protest child allocate grammar school refuse place grammar school prefer place gce course bilateral school second year parent protest year system examination maximum educational opportunity satisfactory parent educational result lecture chief educational officer go give success record pupil system compare average united kingdom average county borough pupil go university system give go comparable institution county borough average bournemouth figure total figure county borough bournemouth o level course extremely good result bournemouth need education authority change system instruct minister direction regard need educational need need display elector bournemouth preamble provision direction minister state department education science miss alice bacon need stop mrs thatcher say local education authority need opinion right hon gentleman believe clause give specific instruction say column stop stop section education act need specify meet minister think achieve set direct specific institution happen area variety instruction training provide totally comprehensive system inadequacy building local reason number amendment like refer especially amendment wish remove phrase secondary education provide substitute show basic difference reasonably happy parent choice send child comprehensive school send child direct grant school school like bournemouth system take entry base ability prove year number authority provide comprehensive alternative number provide alternative comprehensive scheme substantial minority opinion area area example local authority go totally comprehensive substantial body opinion like choice totally comprehensive scheme offer area like richmond appear comprehensive alternative parent tell substantial body opinion like passion run strongly education attempt meet substantial opinion education area direct system prevail mr david lane support say hon friend member finchley mrs thatcher like direct attention amendment group hon friend demonstrate difficulty bill act fact bill act like present form authority confront constitutional dog breakfast try clear bit column strong criticism relate unrealistic suddenness change government try inflict bind confusion local authority distraction urgent job amendment design try transition realistic way think people receiving end parent local authority matter child bill threat local choice shall quote certain experience authority cambridge try hard circular produce scheme sense engage discussion department scheme produce illustrate difficulty authority year bill minimise magical formula amendment meet plea local authority past day association municipal corporation like quote sentence comment seek smooth suddenness effect bill emphasise view far well government await large bill know stock force conclusion transparent effort political educational job bill bring forward let try somewhat dishonest job mr simon mahon surely hon gentleman expect right hon hon member accept education world interested advance child accept condemnation dishonest job accept sort injunction hon gentleman know beginning make speech inequity examination public life way illconsidered untimely column introduce undue haste wish introduce year ago mr lane word dishonest withdraw imputation individual member opposite try convey intellectually dishonest suggest merely pass bill shall leap magically new era secondary education difficulty suddenly conjure away shall immediately forward fast rate improvement able achieve good wish difficulty away know exist hold brief say second reading aware disadvantage plead realistic approach problem different area read bill think smack wishful thinking solve problem amendment seek leave line page want remove word hon member notice amendment go line getting rid entirely ending selection leave word end subsection want rid line interest realism shall suggest outside bill act selection magically end completely wrong impose local authority know area good world building adequate satisfactory comprehensive system shortness time imply bill let insist selection end like bill provide selection sixth form college let realistic allow flexibility local authority selection rigid form open criticism continue time transitional period amendment hon member birmingham perry barr column christopher price pick magic date authority year hard labour burning midnight oil try work reasonable scheme say reorganisation wisely undertake area give difficulty geography forecast pupil number building finance likely available early coincidentally fit amendment illustration reasonable time scale area late dwell moment amendment amendment relate minister bill rigid allow scope judgment local authority entirely support general comprehensive education long force unreasonable pace suggest bill let try fit reality amend bill allow authority wish develop comprehensive school satisfied circumstance right general standard education benefit therefrom let leave room local judgment mention briefly amendment provide insertion word fix age end line emphasise certainly table amendment wed age increasingly realise satisfactory age soon selection continue move happy shall amendment effort help local authority dilemma dog breakfast land pay attention fact ground possibility get building right time available constituency cambridge fortunate school building teacher administrator normal number building similar city modern highly satisfactory grammar secondary modern school difficulty geography particularly great view local authority light column view political party represent local authority right bring scheme let recognise make clear local authority leave discretion difficult case bad bill let try bad persuade government accept amendment mr christopher price comment speech hon member cambridge mr lane shall hear word like magic sudden complete debate believe magic easy safe sudden way comprehensive reorganisation colleague sensible throw adjective represent believe point mention hon member cambridge need far close analysis hon member opposite mind say tend use flag word choose word wave like flag word building flag word building insuperable obstacle building right favour comprehensive reorganisation building element school system study united states arrangement type building far important factor term educational attainment coleman report united states equivalent plowden report discover absolutely difference educational attainment child attend school have widely differ kind building arrangement building right school suitable building aim context aim particularly primary aim clause need end selection far great need school absolutely perfect building building excuse reason hon member cambridge draw distinction rigid selection age regard bad thing soften selection regard good thing selection absolute different degree child select school column preference absolute selection attend school clause say pleased scheme try blow selection severe try improve quality school cure real problem hon member finchley mrs thatcher lot bournemouth scheme bournemouth scheme unique school country o level obtain example warwickshire high school aim system system meet need teacher demand teacher parent past year ending selection comprehensive education new bournemouth system link figure quote hon member finchley mrs thatcher type school system evidence link figure bournemouth social background child mrs thatcher evidence result bournemouth system satisfactory mr price system secondary education bournemouth compare national average advantage child bournemouth home background compare child midland north mean system bournemouth well look forward time bournemouth see light adopt comprehensive education director education number o level obtain double o level day number level treble figure suggest bournemouth well national average relate exactly school system evidence relate social background people area mr lane sorry column clear hon member birmingham perry barr mr christopher price accuse wave flag mind talk rigidity selection flag secretary state wave inscribe want half child school half time get away original form original form onceforall test cause great unfairness hard feeling try away secretary state education science mr edward short hon member mistake point selection mr lane know secretary state view try convey view parent away original rigid elevenplus type selection modify selection long exist method age take place shall feeling unfairness mr price hon member cambridge mr lane say harshness rigidity attack alternative method selection disagree year date people attack year ago right hon friend member birmingham handsworth sir e boyle minister education battle battle finish long ago move believe rigid examination parent child send school level school make slight difference child go school result teacher assessment examination day mixture difference child having reject school level offer choice school selection view end selection right hon friend bring bill hon gentleman speak parent adversely affect column teacher run system discover fiddle round system mind example thorne scheme west riding view ameliorate impact primary school crucial point selection pleased bill go way getting rid selection mr reginald eyre hon gentleman talk building matter mr price say say number element take consideration scientific evidence educational attainment child show important element agree impact direction mr eyre thinking north birmingham hon gentleman reduce argument building point favour introduce educationalist call botchedup comprehensive mr price frequently dilemma choice go comprehensive quickly exist building twoti system leicestershire think describe botchedup go comprehensive slowly insist purposebuilt school second alternative genuine time purposebuilt comprehensive ready probably new way organise education particularly year old favour exist building birmingham twoti system year difficulty teacher plan well lot pious preaching believe comprehensive wait purposebuilt building build year purposebuilt right purpose purposebuilt year purposebuilt wrong purpose flexible like idea purposebuilt comprehensive school flexible building well column change educational idea change idea build large school hall like mausolea accommodate large number child turn year mistake bill selection site school organise comprehensive system turn amendment accusation right hon hon member opposite right hon friend effect bill big stick bludgeon piece dictatorial legislation design bully local authority carry policy fear exactly opposite accept right hon friend say bill design see context redrafting act view get legislation subject finalised important bill see stage movement comprehensive education go second world war stage individual decision number local education authority war build comprehensive school grammar secondary modern school second stage encouragement give right hon member birmingham handsworth sir e boyle process leicestershire change building quietly gradually comprehensive education know enfield judgment turn later illegal process stage circular right hon friend member grimsby mr crosland secretary state issue circular request local authority forward stage bring comprehensive education large number local authority fourth stage attempt deal problem authority comply circular draw plan instead continually draw plan know comprehensive end selection look forward redrafting act final stage bill word matter bill lot strong hon friend member eppe mr newen column amendment great extent probe amendment hope right hon friend tell committee consideration induce sensible word secure september dogmatic date people think early think later important lay local authority obligation merely regard particular need know difficulty arise put way present state law education produce difficulty legislate leave year great number difficulty arise centre pattern control department local education authority local education authority school result circular happen case case local authority want reorganise comprehensive consult governor aided school direct grant school receive cooperation connection refer aid school come sphere influence hon friend member bootle mr simon mahon school exist well reason year old accident history number individual board governor school able circular frustrate wish local authority government board governor little selfperpetuate oligarchy responsible democratic responsibility mr mahon grateful hon friend say sphere education influence accept say school refer clear regard connection considerable cooperation comprehensive education mr price area roman catholic aid school anxious comprehensive scheme go local education column drag foot get right hon friend secretary state speak group amendment hope possible specific clause sanction intend local education authority want allow reorganise school area act make clear responsible pattern secondary school area sanction local authority able impose school run manage body local authority control soon later problem face look redrafting main act time shall finally come consensus opinion deal problem clearly foresee arise form opinion solution wait big act number authority want reorganise great difficulty occur fringe result local government reorganisation see situation leicester wolverhampton local government boundary change way bring comprehensive area unsatisfactory circumstance arise good comprehensive school progressively run people worship altar keep grammar school go mr fergus montgomery hon member example mr price think regis school tettenhell wolverhampton grammar school leicestershire school city leicester area continue reform local government local authority face school willing come national pattern comprehensive reorganisation mr j e b hill hon member birmingham perry barr mr christopher price case flexibility describe differ condition factor hope amendment column uniformity reach mr christopher price uniformity flag word shall hear lot hon member mean mr hill move system secondary reorganisation school different type conform think hon member argument direct selection institution selection institution streaming want rid mr christopher price hon member describe different system education circular uniformity mr hill uniformity aim pattern different building demand variety hon member realise pattern frown different pattern aim cent age group institution extent uniformity treatment positively wonder bill seriously realise reason come ahead main bill hope discussion useful propaganda generate forthcoming general election regret necessarily produce polarisation view inevitably hard try committee political argument dominate educational consideration bill highlight educational question deserve attention resource odd priority compelling local education authority produce plan go comprehensive odd bring bill comprehensive education go comparison educational development year comprehensive school create mr fred evans draw hon member attention fact anglesey comprehensive education force mr hill beg hon member pardon chairman like hon member address remark amendment mr hill want link say amendment try case flexibility amendment generally aim hard balance right easy new bill hon friend member finchley mrs thatcher stress general purpose act provide variety education suitable differing aptitude ability age child fear bill go present form amendment accept hard local education authority carry main duty acceptance amendment advantage avoid lot legal conflict accept bill dictatorial local education authority general important passage bill inevitably damage government local education authority amendment mitigate damage enable local authority accept newish principle comprehensive education variety provision fit geographical circumstance facility resource available area like position clear strongly final word sudden test child ability potential know educational emphasis preschool year believe pool ability comprehensive system come spread judgment difference have system spread merit favourable condition conviction seek enforce run flagrantly counter hard brutal reality geography finance say reply hon member perry barr disagree suppose viable comprehensive school system school have cent age group lot confusion controversy arise stem statement column know resolution house common government policy end selection eliminate separatism secondary education end viable comprehensive school force cent age group school want argue necessary percentage vary locality know country comprehensive experience comprehensive school work coexistence highly selective school cardinal principle educational system local authority particular try provide educational environment match need child likely satisfactory progress mean flexible approach secondly local education authority able provide wide variety option fulfil purpose option important local education authority deploy resource guide principle nation afford lose single good school precipitate insistence plan prematurely cause school injure destroy need execution plan destroy school threat destroy confidence begin process deterioration represent county judge recalcitrant reason support group amendment norfolk job degree flexibility happen face circumstance unique common finish consider tell secondary reorganisation build county roughly interval fine postwar secondary modern school aim primary foundation right agricultural county think important early primary condition right agriculture useless grow crop undersoil drainage correct tiresome thing wartime control farmer direct grow crop ill drain land proper drainage young plant cancolumn reach potential range educational institution scatter widely important concentrate system middle school year year decide advance plowden discourage circular priority infant year village school shall position bring comprehensive system immediate priority early age education suffer greatly right acknowledge year able build new primary school say building wish incompatible ultimate comprehensive reorganisation short money get cent ask capital programme geography school scattered problem excessive travelling child require committee appreciate conception hon member perry barr comprehensive school tier different building adopt easy urban area building probably quarter mile apart country mile apart create appalling problem transport rule immediate practical proposition question local authority boundary mention white paper local government reorganisation propose suffolk norfolk substantial effect catchment area likewise proposal away western area norfolk sever catchment area promise early essay comprehensive system difficulty norfolk local education authority face difficulty devise wide variety educational provision remove possibility final judgment certainly possibility child properly label failure bind descripcolumn secretary state secondary modern pupil failure simply true norfolk wish say system long detailed assessment authority year abandon rigid oneday system annual reassessment child miss bacon listen long time hon gentleman say norfolk entirely opposite deputation norfolk include chairman director say recently building programme tell shortly produce scheme end selection scheme comprehensive reorganisation true soon allow building take different point view hon gentleman say deputation say mr hill think difference right hon lady government pass legislation norfolk lawabide country miss bacon hon gentleman misunderstood happen bill publish apart bill say produce scheme decide mr hill condition change rapidly norfolk put building allocation government feel oblige cut cent impossible produce viable scheme kind scheme produce local education authority vary year scheme forward norfolk forward scheme year likely good scheme forward year time resource available partly sharp increase population different part county wish reduce excessive travel point certain clearly somewhat difficult produce scheme know know end bill government plan enable child compulsory column spend education institution schoolleaving age raise important norfolk try part county introduce specialist course institute education want relate closely school development programme state fact difficulty think bill fulfil useful purpose simply require local authority produce plan material fact resource devise good possible plan long rightly say norfolk doubt cost abortive planning high mean ask people produce detailed plan series uncertain hypothesis deem waste time chance fulfil plan reasonable time hon member perry barr stress quickly plan date rapidlychange situation ground think sensible local authority commit definite plan resource certainty go ahead year broad reason hope amendment accept rate sufficient number permit flexibility operation bill mr stan newen hon member norfolk south mr j e b hill say well scheme probably forward norfolk year year time resource available argument advance concerned bill strengthen unable agree bill way dictatorial support hon friend member birmingham perry barr mr christopher price say amendment bill stipulate time limit desirable like right hon friend minister explain think shall able overcome argument advance local authority desire postpone column introduction comprehensive education indefinitely hon member norfolk south hon member cambridge mr lane concern abolition concern merely getting rid selection completely bill necessary hope bill weaken see area way authority continually forward argument advance morning difficulty building resource rural area highly builtup area possible case introduce scheme comprehensive education adaptation exist building prepared concede possible overnight circumstance date propose amendment opportunity change building require teach london area number year acquainted difficulty old lcc overcome introduce comprehensive education way difficulty london great rural area london number old school building limitation space available expansion exist building unlikely exist rural area addition difficulty highly builtup area main road building far apart separate busy road create situation difficult rural area mr hill hon gentleman clear countryside space number old building antiquated unsuitable urban area agree work important time child day spend travel system impose great deal extra travelling good mr newen agree rural area bad school building problem tackle concede existence column preclude introduction comprehensive scheme point travel distance process selection add occasion travelling select pupil selective school area draw wide catchment area comprehensive school child live west essex travel mile attend selective grammar school desirable add unduly travel distance scheme adapt condition prevail particular area believe principle comprehensive scheme lead few travel difficulty selective scheme mr montgomery hon gentleman argument accord amendment ask local authority design catchment area secure balanced intake mean child travel long distance school noon mr newen deal argument amendment rule order argument raise connection catchment area certain district shall amendment contradict say argument raise hon member norfolk south travel extremely doubtful difficult adapt building introduction comprehensive scheme think adequate allow tell area west essex divisional executive difficulty impossible introduce comprehensive scheme considerable time difficulty different outline today accord opponent comprehensive school spend good selective school result considerable local pressure people want comprehensive school introduce area divisional executive discover problem difficult claim sure sort pressure column require centre amendment accept authority find certainly way achieve introduction comprehensive scheme quickly lay think hon member cambridge mr lane term botchedupscheme mr lane think phrase moment ago hon gentleman refer opponent comprehensive committee opponent comprehensive try realistic mr newen delighted hon gentleman go way hon gentleman opposite term botchedup scheme use expression sneer scheme introduce difficult condition believe introduction scheme use exist building provide certainly provide introduce wisely well opportunity majority child continuation exist system area year introduction comprehensive education postpone area number child lose opportunity benefit accrue majority unlikely opportunity lose effect permanent postpone road scheme development case education certain child lose bill strengthen ensure comprehensive scheme introduce rid old selective system completely mr eyre programme hon gentleman propose resource consider total resource consume push forward programme educational progress hold available limitation know set chancellor week ago mr newen think go limit debate go deeply column concerned projection public expenditure education question rob peter pay paul believe development expansion sector education particularly primary sector vital accept sort argument advance morning detract development way exist building exist setup case adapt introduction comprehensive education abolition selection prepared accept sake argument certain area considerable difficulty adaptation exist building say selection abolish argument strengthen ask government provide resource implement policy believe weaken say accept case morning undermine development sector education mr mahon hon friend agree area like liverpool considerable social problem bad housing place socalled inadequate school delay introduction comprehensive education continue social inequality exist general sense educational sense bear area feel iniquitous discriminate socially form bad housing educationally mr newen wholeheartedly agree hon friend hon member finchley mrs thatcher quote case bournemouth interesting speak area prosperous majority population fairly compare area criterion number o level pass obtain bournemouth justification exist system difficult measure educational achievement satisfactory nature system present method case real advantage comprehensive school accrue child necessarily pass o level benefit column social term measure way state way quote bournemouth illustrate clearly inadequacy basis argument mrs thatcher purpose speaking bournemouth construction point edward shortright hon gentleman say local education authority shall provide secondary education nonselective school clear deliberately different phraseology different direction suspect different deliberately right hon gentleman phraseology past implement case year act right hon gentleman direct word specific meaning different wording provision mr newen well leave right hon friend deal aspect problem think detract argument remember school concern hackney amalgamate old central school good sense term secondgrade grammar school secondary modern school old building distance apart separate busy main road number child stay old secondary modern school small course provide year school knit find completely different atmosphere develop child expect secondary modern school impossible tell exactly sort attitude school child expect old central school socially advantage enormous imagine sufficiently fortunate get school feeling failure unpleasant column feel relegate school child capable intelligent socially desirable selective school bad effect child send secondary modern school stream school child stream develop frame mind think good academic subject tough want away state affair comprehensive school end selection argument advance committee today favour procrastinating dismiss bill need strengthen hope right hon friend feel amendment accept reason clear hope reconsider issue introduce time limit present system abolish quickly certain area country mr montgomery make point child low stream secondary modern school hon member go reason want comprehensive system advocate streaming comprehensive system pm mr newen reply question go argument delighted point hon member time argument streaming consider favour soften stream system introduce setting fall swoop consider good possible method undesirable gather group pupil school eventually regard people misfit react treatment antisocial way detract need keep esn child like discuss point great length hon member brierley hill mr montgomery sir edward boyle suspect short answer amendment secretary state succeed get time limit column bill past treasury hon member eppe mr newen misunderstood intervention hon friend member birmingham hall green mr eyre point cynical time limit bill light white paper public expenditure present house common agree hon gentleman want press increase resource devote education hope able future incarnation need education service think people outside consider cynical view white paper public expenditure secretary state time limit bill get colleague agree wish concentrate principally amendment seek leave clause disingenuous word comment reply interesting speech hon member birmingham perry barr mr christopher price doubt occasion later proceeding reply point building agree exaggerate building difficulty major exception sixth form provision surely recognise nowadays satisfactory sixth form education possible adequate library laboratory view adequate common room space comprehensive plan run hurry bother deal sixth form education slaphappy unsatisfactory way point view believe building great importance consider call flagwaving word suggest word selection flagwave word reason say second reading temptation speak comprehensive scheme child school course basis select boy girl different school hope later amendment column discuss issue banding selection let remember say house rule element selection ability result great indefensible degree inequality school mr christopher price right hon gentleman agree fundamental difference overt system selection academic ability feeling deprivation cause child tell lack academic ability system selection select child school city sir e boyle glad hear hon member come time dialectic totally differ say house occasion majority opinion country believe moment transfer primary secondary early separation child school different type nonetheless say house country oppose proceed compulsion give reason second reading debate concentrate aspect morning difficulty frame satisfactory law particular unsatisfactory feature bill challenge hon member perry barr stop call second phase phase stage wise action lord butler mr chuter ede introduce bill permit comprehensive scheme education act deliberately draft way enable authority wish provide call multilateral school right hon learn friend member st marylebone mr hogg welcome leicestershire plan experiment give clear indication realise reorganisation air long think bipartism norm compare dangerously experimental go issue circolumn introduce bill necessarily endorse bournemouth scheme interesting speech londonderry director education bournemouth absolutely doubt mind sensible encourage neighbouring county hampshire success reorganisation scheme embark concern coerce bournemouth possible help hampshire large county success getting rid allage school reorganise rural school wish reorganise concentrate help hampshire coerce bournemouth low condition intolerable tremendous injustice child bournemouth think imply rightly committee system educational condition bournemouth well area agree think argument cut way mr christopher price advocate complete local option selection local authority right hon gentleman lay lot trouble reorganisation local government sensible government national principle run secondary education sir e boyle answer twofold advocate complete local option believe authority deny opportunity majority child course minister intervene disrespect intervene bournemouth think authority mistaken fortunately soon able reach agreement great difference minister decide intervene particular case think injustice generally proceed secondary reorganisation compulsion bone fact proceed gradualism persuasion compulsion say second reading believe column result long run well scheme hon member say surely intolerable small country different system rest let recall government plan different system different part country let doubt real feeling parent move area secondary education start area middle school government policy bring unanimity difficulty come point amendment say second reading fear ground believe bill particularly clause unsatisfactory addition body education legislation clause fundamental change balance power education service time government want appear make fundamental change result bill prove operation unsatisfactory ambiguous clause frame section act mind section absolutely key section provide local education authority offer children court take view discover time kesteven judgment key section act take preference section say far practicable child agree right hon lady minister state say wind debate second reading section operation conjunction section suppose bill act short time local education authority genuinely satisfied educational opportunity extend small proportion child nonselective school right hon lady say test case column bring believe succeed believe parent grievance child comprehensive school grammar school far likely parent grievance child secondary modern school comprehensive school pm answer right hon lady envisage situation authority decide remain exactly present custom past cent grammar school remainder secondary modern school envisage position authority provide main nonselective education decide small percentage selective provision think authority short sixthform provision short mathematic science graduate feel justice able child selective school remain alternatively authority area keep certain number school selective mind area doncaster kent thameside suppose minister change view authority wish arrangement circumstance strong case bring court scheme deliberately take parental preference account think answer clear power duty responsibility lay local authority section cancel precision power confer minister clause case well government honest bill make major change relative position government local authority honest drastically amend section act reason amendment deliberately leave word column know deal child careful think educational law exist sake doubt sincerity hon member opposite want extend educational opportunity widely child nonetheless believe law vital play education service history educational progress year long tradition agreement legal basis education try render law satisfactory time measure pass law feel legislation satisfactory form possible time remember real concern feel legal position aided school recently proper tidying law secondary reorganisation follow enfield case hon member birmingham perry barr mr christopher price right say law reality get line bill make mistake get law line reality propose legislation disingenuous reason unsatisfactory hope house resist legislate new principle relationship government local authority try time pass legislation give impression new principle introduce mr short extremely good debate amendment deal speech turn hon member finchley mrs thatcher talk objective local authority section act duty certainly section lay duty local authority decide pattern school area set factor local authority regard carry duty exercise power purpose carry duty effect clause add factor regard hon lady ask case add section act course take objection principle idea column forward bill draft way reason presentational drafting extremely important incorporate reference pride place ending selection reference ability aptitude give pride place wording clause drafting need include reference exercise power purpose fulfil duty section exception specify subsection clause reason agree principle say accept amendment hon lady go talk word need say educational need reorganisation wonder ignore consensus educational opinion research decade word need refer need establish parliament act parliament national policy committee meet lay need local authority regard hon lady talk bournemouth hold bournemouth pattern follow laugh court let come newcastle try go ancient briton bournemouth pattern grammar secondary modern school get good result bournemouth certain social pattern upstage middleclass welltodo area hon lady speak quota allocate primary school invention bournemouth arise thorne scheme invent labourcontrolled west ride county council labour council newcastle adopt mrs thatcher right edward shorthon gentleman finish intend word need answer need lay parliament need act take year implement implement mr short certainly educational need recognise hon lady technical legal meaning word need different lay parliament column talk bournemouth point scheme old tripartite system good secondary modern school get good result hope hold example follow rest country hon lady go discuss amendment think agree wrecking amendment fulfil have comprehensive school hon lady come favourite theme comprehensive alternative tory policy have selective school comprehensive definition impossible comprehensive school mean child hon lady point labour second reading try ride horse want comprehensivist want retain selection second reading ask retain selection reply parent want happen year ago parent want cream make comparison grammar comprehensive school extremely difficult impossible hinder development school effective educational unit agree mixed economy comprehensive selective school acceptable short time interim period change short interim period mr lane right hon gentleman explain square argument word clause provide selection age sixth form college overstate case mr short come later arise amendment come speech hon member cambridge mr lane say want amend bill leave local authority free word want destroy bill think say bill transform position overnight obviously matter legal framework provide resource transform position overnight set right course local column little hon gentleman refer amendment object apparent adviser presumably term fix age mean specify age mean ordinary admission school age nonselective admission child come outside selective meaning presumably secondary education permit school selective admission fix age catch subsection nonsense amendment meaning like know meaning obscure hon friend member birmingham perry barr mr christopher price eppe mr newen deal amendment appreciate desire bill tooth strong afraid reason accept amendment amendment unworkable voluntary school act provide person subject control local education authority governor manager voluntary school formal legal step convert school comprehensive school secondary school voluntary school sizeable problem power give governor voluntary school action amendment unworkable secondly right hon member birmingham handsworth sir e boyle say problem cost involve injection massive capital resource september cost astronomical reorganisation involve great deal simply put new board change secondary school war act merely take old senior school notice board new one say secondary modern school want change great deal genuine changeover genuine comprehensive unit capable column age range shall approve botchedup scheme pm requirement devise plan building resource available successive programme deploy effective way fully comprehensive system want ensure basic pattern ground right think time limit set process want plan study apportionment resource minister whitehall scheme carry accordance plan mr christopher price expect right hon friend say voluntary school little information measure expect local authority face noncooperative voluntary school overcome problem mr short bill go far church usually problem high degree cooperation anglican roman catholic church willing reorganise school trouble voluntary school doubt new major education bill way deal problem moment matter discussion agreement possible local authority voluntary body duty education authority submit scheme local education authority submit approve mr mahon secretary state hold high regard connect voluntary school educational progress sector education parent find onefifth total cost reorganisation mr short appreciate sacrifice voluntary body provide school moment submit plan local authority local authority submit secretary state clause column c give secretary state power specify time allow local authority submit plan point relevant hon member nofolk south mr j e b hill say regard bill propaganda wonder make propaganda politic hon gentleman theory government introduce bill year office propaganda eye election child deprive fair deal certainly norfolk place country second reading try imperfectly set educational case hon member finchley call lecture genetic unassailable case reorganise secondary school hon member norfolk south try ride horse viable comprehensive school highly selective school want favour comprehensive school highly selective school organisational nonsense way certainly way hon member want selective school norfolk basis selection hon lady member finchley famous intervention house say want selection parent want deputy director foundation educational research publish article week journal advisory centre education refer fact plowden report say pupil year wrongly select say well possible devise examination system selection error right hon member handsworth speak hypothetical case local authority keep small proportion selective school occur accordance duty lay bill act sir e boyle right hon gentleman refer clause say suggest fact clause column power give secretary state nullify duty responsibility local authority section act mr short carry duty power section clause authority regard need secure secondary education provide school arrangement pupil base wholly partly selection ability aptitude local authority ignore act accordance law right hon member point difficult parental choice school age bill affect parental choice right hon member want talk believe comprehensive school parent well choice tripartite system cent parent choice secondary modern school choice grammar school cent parent choose grammar school school large comprehensive school great variety course possible child obtain tailormade course choice building instiution infinitely great choice educational course amendment omit clause reference duty authority section act power purpose fulfil duty duty regard comprehensive principle omit operate framework reference unacceptable sensible impose local authority duty regard principle specify context regard ambiguous argue apply range education act appreciate intend advise ambiguous advise committee reject amendment mr w r van staubenzee convenience committee resolve mind matter hope secretary column acquit discourtesy reply briefly come decision morning listen debate fair observer agree hon friend member finchley mrs thatcher uncover weakness bill opposition pinpoint series amendment show clearly clause conflict major act hope hon friend vote favour amendment conscious certain technical defect amendment right hon gentleman aware practice opposition make position clear hinge argument amendment occasion base argument deploy hon right hon friend shall vote favour amendment shall ample opportunity occasion develop argument frankly accept universality necessary meaningful comprehensive education shall leave argument point shall vote favour amendment provision appropriate building matter great importance variety character education provide shall come question building specifically later amendment merely touch later shall able argument hon member birmingham perry barr mr christopher price bill purely political admission secretary state shall live exist situation long foresee mixed solution bill effect intend impression hon member perry barr say bill intend impression change situation overnight emphatically admission hon member opposite hope hon friend educational ground register view vote division amendment negative amendment propose page line leave authority shall line mrs thatcher question amendment committee divide aye no division boyle sir edward eyre mr reginald hill mr j e b lane mr david montgomery mr thatcher mrs margaret van straubenzee mr armstrong mr ernest bacon miss alice evans mr fred jones mr j idwal mahon mr simon newens mr stan oake mr gordon price mr christopher price mr william short mr edward woof mr robert oclock chairman adjourn committee question pursuant standing order committee adjourn till thursday march halfpast oclock column follow member attend committee brewi mr chairman armstrong mr bacon miss boyle sir e evans mr fred eyre mr hill mr j e b jones mr j idwal lane mr mahon mr simon montgomery mr newens mr oake mr price mr christopher price mr william short mr edward thatcher mrs van straubenzee mr woof mr column appendix mr john brewis chair mr w r van straubenzee beg amendment page line leave shall line chairman convenient discuss time follow amendment page line end insert page line end insert page line end insert page line end insert mr van straubenzee mr brewis hope allow deviate marginally order outset express appreciation hon member suspect side committee effective representation clearly place meet amendment affect direct grant school certain school shall concentrate entirely direct grant school purpose amendment deal exercise power section power argument direct grant school arise ought start have clearly mind position column affect direct grant state right hon lady minister wound debate second reading section act read follow key discuss act extend power material way need moment read relevant section direct grant school directly affect bill specifically mention important point absolutely clear find mention clear affect bill right hon lady perfectly clear second reading clause provide bill enact come operation trust right hon lady clear timing effect bill direct grant school let explain difficulty mind people secretary column state assert roundly local education authority legally bind provision clause look matter fairly equitably think tuesday hon friend member finchley mrs thatcher peel secretary state like banana leave say show conclusively word regard give total letout take view comprehensive reorganisation take example hon member birmingham perry barr mr christopher price share member anxietie secretary state say absolutely clear speak assurance law give practise law result clear definite firm believe store trouble future shall secretary state assert exercise power section local education authority bind regard provision education direct grant school base ability aptitude regard word local education authority act accordance law majestys secretary state make pronouncement matter local education authority lawabide combine effect secretary states firm assertion law month passing bill timetable come force bill lead people assume provisos restrict local education authority respect direct grant school come force month passing bill remind committee timetable likely committee give graphic evidence anxiety assist government constructive way column business example brilliant speech end sitting truncate order proceed agreeable civilised way way education debate conduct likely bill assume change composition parliament act end summer come effect september great anxiety start september long lawful local education authority place direct grant school school select reference aptitude ability greatful right hon lady clear term possible interpretation government put bill draw attention catastrophic effect local education authority school quote case example particularly exceptional example royal county berkshire privilege represent county annually take place direct grant school berkshire expect september separate arrangement pupil result chaos probable right hon lady eagle eye direct attention clause probably fear set rest provision say authority concern regard need fulfil duty word exercise power word argue appropriate local education authority phase direct grant provision hope right hon lady careful advice matter obviously extremely skilled advice disposal beg notice clause emphasis weight school control directly authority local education authority involve consultation teacher information parent provision plan local authority sorry result enterprising body apply group citizen country column court interpretation provision example body immensely keen comprehensive reorganisation apply court declaration certain local education authority act september date assume bill come force send young people direct grammar school select aptitude ability act ultra vis strong extraordinarily unhappy result act interpret judge way want certain fear express foundation expect careful exposition situation right hon lady second thing draw attention extraordinary position hight hon lady vis à vis donnison committee fact record secretary state second reading february tell receive donnison report february report prepare publish distinguished group man woman head professor donnison academic circle stand high committee charge government look matter discuss wide matter concern direct grant school admission secretary state draft publish bill receive report donnison committee give mighty slap face distinguished man woman devote great deal time matter report generally know literally way date right hon lady expect donnison report publish minister state department education science miss alice bacon propose mr van straubenzee oblige prepare ground right hon lady beck remember mr kenneth lewis meeting recently give publication date donnison report committee question people outside know date donnison report publish member house common mr van straubenzee unusual accustomed reading major government decision press got mr fergus montgomery nondecision mr van straubenzee nondecision try charitable agreeable morning example hon friend member rutland stamford mr kenneth lewis persistent determine searcher truth matter ask secretary state question march tell report publish week oblige right hon lady say tell date report publish directly relevant amendment major burden proof hand fundamental step take respect direct grant school have report committee hon friend set look question member donnison committee language government calm parliamentary morning tendency try place direct grant school tidy compartment direct grant system large number direct grant school differ widely range mr fred evans school mr van straubenzee question intend hon member invite develop little considerable range direct grant school feel column misinterpret position hope catch eye mr brewis right england wale direct grant school range size approximately approximately wide numerical range provide free place comprise day school boarding school boarding school day element day school boarding element denominationally include roman catholic schools methodist schools anglican school nondenominational school note help committee powerful presence hon member bootle mr simon mahon extract catholic council handbook figure northern roman catholic diocese major play secondary education provision roman catholic school roman catholic diocese lancaster place maintain secondary school roman catholic provision direct grant provision diocese roman catholic diocese leed maintain secondary school roman catholic provision place direct grant school roman catholic provision diocese salford secondary school direct grant school show high proportion denominational provision embody direct grant school know hon member deeply concerned hon member bootle denominational character school appropriate provision denominational angle mr simon mahon grateful hon gentleman provide interesting figure figure liverpool diocese probably large catholic diocese country mr van straubenzee gladly look figure think hon gentleman information close hand think possible catch eye mr brewis figure care column school girl school boy school single sex cover town city rural area exclusive place impossible kind stereotype school example comprise manchester grammar school great renown hereford cathedral school st edwards liverpool great reputation include oakham school shall hear hon friend member rutland stamford mr kenneth lewis convent lady mary scarborough talk great diversity school school voluntarily raise large sum money building direct grant school governor spend million year know well effort sweat involve hon member bootle equally concerned denominational school voluntarily aid case direct grant school aspect work charge state talk wide range school wide range social intake important aspect direct grant school touch second reading school run gamut parent pay fee independent school parent pay parent boy girl free place provide local education authority governor parent boy girl feepayer totally exempt scale remission make contribution widely base social range school vast majority selection famous phrase direct grant school young people accord capacity profit education school true academic range largely mean academic achievement exclusively concern denominational school know denominational preference parent column priority academic achievement child good bargain prove remind minister state say february defend pupil cut capitation grant direct grant school say miss bacon wait answer speech interrupt hon gentleman course bargain point make bargain direct grant government mr van straubenzee precisely point right hon lady fully take comparison local education authority school fair comparison miss bacon comparison mr van straubenzee respect right hon lady find quotation fair comparison basis phrase bargain fair comment get good bargain great variety broad social mix direct grant school far blind educational change talk headmaster headmistress board governor realise secretary state pay great tribute willingness voluntaryaide denominational school cooperate comprehensive reorganisation believe equally true direct grant school principle selection age essencolumn existence school hon friend say publicly repeat emphatically wed magic age long accept educational political opinion move away age time selection yes heresy selection age enshrine later bill early age pupil expedient educate pupil attain age selection issue bill bright exceptional case bright know bright child educate experience school intolerable small boy grow great academic stature later right hon lady accept place direct grant school accept begin arrangement middle school concept direct grant reorganisation bill fatal principle selection reason give good side time school need bring partnership comprehensive system accept meaningful comprehensive provision universal believe variety particularly possible variety choice parent hope case school large number wide variety excellent form important denominational provision right hon ladys adviser doubt take immense trouble point report wrong bill provision vital importance school right hon lady able provision come force september interpret able interpret word equivocation reason gradually change local authority provision school bill fundamental change arrangement leas direct grant school fundamentally wrong expert report examine matter column problem replace provision mammoth say place take berkshire year quick estimate cost replace provision adapt comprehensive system having regard size school concern feel strongly berkshire school abingdon midst stand high esteem academic circle hope right hon lady persuade argument indulge little absence right hon friend tell return common sense wisdom prevail accept opposition amendment absence add esteem right hon lady mr lewis appreciate powerful speech hon friend member wokingham mr van straubenzee important subject echo conclude word hope right hon lady accept amendment interest secretary state unfortunately miss sitting committee reason unconnected debate tuesday go constituency somewhat unusual middle week attend meeting trustee oakham school join little time ago tell think stormy water conflict minister lea hope honest broker happen tuesday make admit fail respect oakham direct grant school decide independent direct grant school constituency stamford day boy boarder oakham position reverse sad oakham school decide independent great believer direct grant school educational record second include good independent school splendid social mix column gentleman opposite want social mix find well medium direct grant school ought seek destroy ask committee consider decision oakham school independent mind time time discuss local lea ministry important matter affect ability carry future decision finally arrive feel interest school way open try determine force oakham school create situation partly force local rutland county council education authority certain sadness friend believe drag foot matter secondly minister policy school factor scene colour discussion question remain direct grant aid go independent purpose bill try prevent selection openende selection agree hon friend member wokingham mr van straubenzee say constituency wrong selection aspect educational system contain bill go right university agreement hon member opposite selection party say long time ago interruption repeat occasion constituency people express surprise quote leader conservative party election manifesto recent year party subscribe course go prehistoric time recently party take line age child future determine late starter right ahead educationally child bright beginning family example need convince convince column rigid give age opportunity advance age accord briskly slowly child develop bill minister create climate give impression country grammar school system living alongside comprehensive system believe possible right case view inevitable grammar school long time come direct grant school bill minister pass think term mixed educational system mr stan newen hon gentleman say accept argument selection fully understand ask flexibility age grammar school direct grant school exist alongside comprehensive school cater child upwards process selection examination flexibility time remove child type school surely respect true hon gentleman selection process selection order determine school child mr lewis bill selection say selection let selection transfer child academically ready justify transfer parent desire far grammar school situation island comprehensive system chance demand late age opportunity available transfer reason transfer readily admit grammar school system transfer place say transfer age minister right hon lady create climate decision force unhealthy pace dangerous create position time consideration discussion column lead healthy helpful compromise opinion prolong discussion long period important opportunity people decide come compromise right hon gentleman pressurise field oakham school soon position school decide chop well butcher shop right hon lady recognise cause considerable strain resource ministry apart embarrassment create leas time month second report public schools commission available deal direct grant school apparently minister wait take action pressure ministry direct grant school build year wait report pressure justify remind committee august swipe reduce grant time cost rise certain rise difficult economy bridge gap cut impose time minister stop subsidy milk certainly direct grant school find udder ministry begin run dry problem school contributory factor reason oakham school go independent school seek permission minister fee independent pupil ministry restrict increase certain horse trading go presentation account proposal school need money minister say school say sufficient minister say bit threequarter way ladder settlement inadequate school minister satisfied result pressure column school like oakham decision oakham day force necessary intend provide figure account particular school deficit year big deficit year kind educational price income policy impose minister school pay price minister restrict income school increase salary accept normal burnham award increase oakham school sector go independent want straitjacket coin phrase decide well shortcircuit minister donnison committee report doubt shall tell minister tell right hon lady today government care difficulty impose direct grant school independent job subsidise private education come little later let examine particular come general exactly happen believe possible promising outcome rutland county decision force school local authority oakham school go independent pay large sum money pupil oakham school annually secondly recognise secondary education provide new building certainly increase staff service provision new secondary education cost ministry considerable money rutland county council expense right hon lady vote place short ministry spend money kind activity arise bill pressure direct grant school spread county rutland direct grant school go independent create similar situation column total cost money come short pay minister provide money improve comprehensive sector say believe extra commitment mean available finance away example split school think party accept satisfactory long run comprehensive point view material fact matter cost apart county rutland lose association ancient school school go comprehensive able maintain aim founder provide education local boy mr j idwal jones poor mr lewis include poor boy rich boy great poor boy county rutland go oakham school present system government difficult mr jones extent school prevent organisation comprehensive education area mr lewis school prevent comprehensive education try assist get work arrangement school county have mixture grammar comprehensive right hon lady colleague want rid year county authority buy oakham school agree transfer age county authority pay fee boy oakham school go independent enable school accept feepaying day boy ministry force situation county system fail examination able oakham school headmaster admit parent pay privilege right hon lady create class situation possible purchase education school column thing say want avoid criticise right hon friend hon member opposite mr newen hon gentleman blame fairly squarely development oakham school right hon friend government understand say early rutland authority concerned far recall authority dominate recent year socialist unfortunately circumstance hon gentleman like clarify position exonerate rutland authority completely blame fairly squarely government interested blame attache rutland authority point considerable rift people normally support right hon hon gentleman opposite chairman order intervention get long grateful member short possible mr lewis come hon gentleman point lie blame fairly squarely government create atmosphere precipitate situation able hold necessarily take place occur place miss bacon want lengthen hon gentleman speech unnecessarily follow say rutland precipitate situation mr lewis right hon lady innocence committee doubt believe prove contrary spend past month assist direct grant school help maintain direct grant status promise assist status bill indicate world general government great love direct grant school right hon lady know perfectly seek cane direct grant school time cane column go succeed effectively oakham school probably decide want cane corporal punishment department education science school go independent short answer miss bacon rutland comprehensive scheme wish long ago july rutland county council decline submit scheme reorganisation mr lewis shall come right hon lady point long ago request scheme forward date hang head county local education authority school threat forward scheme impose come possibility rutland reorganisation secondary education possibility surprisingly member parliament support people think mean different exist time create county sixth form college rutland girl high school create recent year oakham school village college combine proposal scheme remote likely come fruition want headmaster oakham school find possible secure acceptance scheme lea escape responsibility matter equally minister attitude oakham school appreciate try achieve acceptance scheme mr van straubenzee hon column feel doubly unfortunate experiment get ground light secretary states admission second reading debate hon friend contribute massively little experience field sixth form college reason put special exemption bill feel additionally unfortunate experience rutland draw secretary state experience mr lewis entirely agree great tragedy county seek say somewhat puzzle attitude lea meeting completely unprepared consider form reorganisation presumably wish continue work oakham school receive assurance chairman lea chairman county council trustee ask department increase tuition fee september receive support lea get precious little support minister january year change time oakham school harass financially get brush seek cooperation lea get ready chief education officer state paper date january change effect voluntarily fact hold well thing child b change effect result legal sanction represent improvement case small possible harm think sixth form college idea sixth form college rutland column remain direct grant school succeed achieve hon friend member wokingham mr van straubenzee indicate moment ago new experiment combination comprehensive grammar school work fall get ground despite discussion take place fall local education authority want complete control sixth form college indicate accept control sixth form college headmaster oakham school clearly man experience expertise cooperate direct grant school kind headmaster pm situation confront offer compromise suggest headmaster oakham school head sixth form college trustee govern body collegesemi compromise equal number local education authority oakham school independent chairman acceptable revolving chairman chairman year follow chairman year work arrangement feel sure difficulty anticipate see exist experiment worthwhile break new ground certain problem changing building administrative problem resolve sorry boat miss trail blaze local education authority come regret oakham school go completely independent create system secondary education work fine school second good know say prevent local education authority cooperate completely independent school hope warn cooperation seek completely independent school school successful get number financially column difficult school cooperate way local education authority rutland fully involve commit deal problem rutland education authority take jump refuse fence find ground somewhat sticky little way ahead speak fully local matter bill house deal matter affect call country national policy bill affect little community country remote house common capital important discuss matter local context having deal particular turn general ask right hon lady right hon friend want away direct grant school aim want force independent country large number direct grant school want independent want demolish direct grant school loss contribution state sector education achieve work arrangement direct grant school local education authority village college sixth form school like force business create situation local education authority jump crack whip happen rutland direct grant school go independent obviously repeat part country right hon lady recognise school provide bridge state system independent system fine mean keep form participation side educational system use secretary state deal matter basis hon friend like good dealing situation basis want know private sector good secretary state position rid column private sector rid cost great case simply succeed push overseas difference point view people right send child school want attend private sector stay direct grant system fine social mix encourage discourage favour direct grant school school encouragement like work arrangement local education authority stick disregard shabby bill threat come minister hold seatbelt year tory party try right government unfortunate mistake miss bacon bring debate conclusionbut think speak moment able answer question week hour half speech think go oclock let answer question donnison report publish march government present prepare white paper issue hope set government intention education decade white paper shall able hope set plan recommendation visavis donnison report sir edward boyle white paper cover high education school university number secondly include reference money available decade revise publish recent white paper public expenditure miss bacon sure order amendment answer question high education come white paper answer high education yes matter stage column go far outside scope amendment hon member wokingham mr van straubenzee criticise government wait donnison committee report publish bill remind committee term reference donnison committee government entitle assume committee report advise direct grant school fit comprehensive system direct grant school fit comprehensive system bill anticipate fact donnison committee report ask school fit comprehensive system future bill pass plan direct grant school fit local authority place direct grant school grammar school pupil pupil subsidise government rate year extra year sixth grant recoup cost tuition fee remission allow parent afford fee cost department million offer cent free place local authority good deal misunderstand free place free local authority local authority pay fee child send direct grant school local authority pay fee cent pupil cost local authority million proportion place take local authority individual school vary cent income direct grant school way fee pay parent million fee pay local authority pupil send million grant department million hon gentleman say say good bargain column grant fee parent local authority woud high noon direct grant school cooperate comprehensive pattern admit direct grant school hold scheme comprehensive education pay tribute roman catholic direct grant school cooperate scheme secondary reorganisation direct grant school st anns southampton fully comprehensive school fee virtually pupil pay local education authority similar proposal agree st anthony sunderland direct grant school varied group say pattern famous large highly selective regional grammar school establish local grammar school like maintain grammar school boarding school roman catholic school provide academic education roman catholic child fairly wide range ability draw wide area school fit description take direct grant grammar school curricula teacher equipment cost maintain grammar school achievement pupil appear similar pupil comparable ability grammar school come kind social background work resource achievement group distinguish maintain grammar school think case treat differently maintain grammar school precisely talk morning hon gentleman say wide social spread broad social mix direct grant school feel fallacy hon gentleman shake head difficult position morning tell committee read report publish donnison report publish hope column hon member wokingham read carefully subject morning mr van straubenzee right hon lady naughty miss bacon yes know mr van straubenzee chastise gently half take veil put fair hon gentleman committee think agree view direct grant school large number wide social mix course shall pay close attention distinguished report right hon lady tantalise way miss bacon answer hon gentleman question shall accuse take veil sir e boyle right hon lady say case treat school differently maintain school comment assume school fully independent school fully maintain school surely beg question house place think people like noble lord james hold strongly real advantage have certain number school fully maintain completely independent miss bacon want comment point accuse take veil discuss morning bill say local authority place school include direct grant grammar school admission school base selection hon gentleman beginning speech ask pertinent question bill operate particularly regard timing say come operation month passing act bill right hon friend sitting committee column say commencement act authority shall secure secondary education shall provide nonselective school say authority shall result hon gentleman say timing direct grant school apply equally grammar school secondary modern maintain school hon gentleman compare section education act require local education authority rid allage school directly act come april bill act plan local education authority send right hon friend basis local authority propose place direct grant school clause give right hon friend power revise plan local authority plan pass bill term enable secretary state withdraw approval exist arrangement enable consider local authority exist stress word exist propose future arrangement consider plan eliminate selection mean hon gentleman fear immediately bill law child withdraw direct school foundation bill give right hon friend power proposal come local authority submit plan revise proposal submit plan set proposal new proposal revise proposal direct grant school child local authority mean selection accord ability aptitude plan turn allow mr van straubenzee passage right hon ladys speech come entirely surprise helpful authoritatively state clause provision secretary state approve plan stage approve change taking direct grant place stage column short phase provision taking direct grant place miss bacon commit right hon friend particular plan plan come right hon friend approve clear approve plan envisage selection accord ability aptitude direct grant school maintain grammar school plan plan reject bill seek abolish selection utterly wrong abolish selection age maintain grammar school allow kind super selection direct grant school clause cover direct grant grammar school maintain grammar school urge committee reject amendment mr montgomery understand government determined knock direct grant school direct grant school find impossible continue feel independent sector public sector right hon lady give thought extra cost exchequer miss bacon demonstrate speech direct grant grammar school cost exchequer local authority considerable money mr montgomery event cost miss bacon hon gentleman assert assume work carefully make assertion declare discuss future direct grant grammar school hope long shall able discuss morning local authority able send child kind selection direct grant grammar school selection abolish maintain grammar school mr j e b hill grateful right hon lady rate make flurry veil give column date publication donnison report clear shall come subject later interested say term reference donnison committee amount say direct grant school fit new phrase strike donnison term reference sweeping nature newsom term reference integrate independent boarding school miss bacon think phrase participate say pm mr hill agree participate different integrate sweeping suppose term reference elbow room commission recommend government wish leave future direct grant school system amendment comprehensive pull amendment nos directly concern deal secretary states power section act grant school section payment fee expense add amendment specific statement fee payable independent day school receive direct grant local education authority subject donnison report great service leas place take mind know rôle play king college school wimbledon area ipswich school place take east suffolk education authority place expensive lea provide building rest satisfied government preserve inviolate secretary states power section phrase clause have regard power section virtually unusable right hon lady lord nelson turn blind eye miss bacon seven veil lord nelson mr hill right hon lady lord nelson salome amendment accept think pass sell right hon lady say need happen school know future feel apprehensive clause amend direct grant system cover range school include junior school welcome thing shall donnison report thorough survey thing direct grant school common measure selection element feepaying necessarily parental choice essential preserve autonomy direct grant school entirely modify produce unhappy situation school depend selection function demand place consistently exceed supply reason school fill selection real criterion child likely benefit type education offer have regard educational aim school reference ability aptitude element feepaying attack critic system stand boldly defence feepaye education parent want essential exercise freedom parent able spend money procure child think fit different special probably intense form education suppose maintain school area reflection maintain school simply society parent people generally follow wish law natural parent spend money house example wish particular kind schooling instead run car perfectly proper aim advantage feepaying great parental involvement mother father interested column customer curiosity find difficult feepaying objectionable acceptable parallel different level education save child fund operate play group difficult area government grant find well parental response charge fee attendance morning link parent educational work extreme feepaying great educational social benefit right hon lady give figure finance stress considerable extra burden place parent year reduction grant time education cut pupil year burnham award result extra grant time think happen similarly forthcoming burnham award extra grant mean sharp increase fee plus cent superannuation contribution reflect fee come year extra have find parent pay fee miss bacon pay fee know hon member mean fee charge cost subsidise mr hill appreciate mean fee emerge payment direct grant advantage direct grant system fee poor family temper child poor family parent wish ability aptitude benefit education load phrase afraid prevent attend local authority course benefit direct grant school apart bargain substantial pay local authority take place outside area age age great contrast right hon lady give debate attention draw robust defence direct grant system column direct grant school coventry bablake school king henry viii school point provision local authority provide primary education child think school probably save coventry local education authority year addition governor doubt direct grant school provide governor scholarship place case cost local authority parent impression give central government unduly heavy contribution way education provide school provide school exist calculation cost provide secondary education direct grant school compare favourably equivalent maintain school especially allow considerably high ratio expensive sixth form place provide cent direct grant sector maintain secondary sector naturally great deal small rate moment cent allow capital expenditure loan content state get direct grant school figure give cost pupil annum direct grant school say high proportion sixth form place maintain sector plus element capital expenditure loan charge direct grant place economic provision term real resource pm pass important matter right hon lady say conception social spread benefit somewhat fallacious obviously read carefully donnison committee think doubt direct grant school provide past hope continue future grammar school past important ladder opportunity able child column poor home view vital rôle play able child go way contribution national life proportion number direct grant school force comprehensive system fully maintain system bind lessen opportunity child mr newen moment accept child comprehensive school opportunity direct grant school fact high proportion child take direct grant school socalled poor child cream intensive selection process child good opportunity comprehensive sector mr hill hon gentleman state reverse point view hope note say able child poor home agree hope comprehensive system generate large sixth form pool ability mean able child poor neighbourhood ladder enable quickly intense educational atmosphere mind particular individual school sir ernest barker miner son gain early century go manchester grammar school like quote time educational supplement quote sir ernest barker tribute manchester grammar school mention name teach classic example know people ernest barker profit way believe loss government insist policy column realise price pay diminish opportunity able child poor home area outside critic examine education system great detail study year ago educationist come compare british american education america comprehensive system widely develop find direct grant system fascinating typically british unique government support variation state educational pattern mr james d koerner advance publication book write article daily telegraph february speak direct grant school term second great function think direct grant school carry provide bridge maintain wholly independent sector clearly system way anomalous appeal bureaucrat tidy mind surprised minister speak department education science have charge duty promote develop comprehensive system maintain sector prefer completely clear run fact direct grant school autonomous independent stand bulwark independent sector education certain free democracy maintain healthy independent sector education absolutely vital maintain sector educate independent sector provide competition innovation advance provide safeguard monolithic tendency government run maintain educational system abrogate power grasp bill instance balance education authority government column tip favour government equally undesirable independent sector fact economic life today necessarily preserve betteroff people independence mind family attitude want encourage direct grant system precisely facilitate think national point view want provide system denominational aspect speaker well qualified refer essentially alternative option broad doubt fine maintain sector hope desirable society profess advance donnison view exactly clearly room great deal movement think factor indispensable autonomy retain measure selection feepaye parental choice survive draft bill rule hope minister accept amendment bear mind seek preserve minister exist power unfettere possible later stage consideration government alter power reflection advance prejudge donnison report debate follow publication white paper hope amendment particularly relate section act accept mr mahon atmosphere house commons committee room listen reasonable voice member conservative party explain regard direct grant system education system listen interest find think wish way find way fairly substantial experience live great city country regard member conservative party people appreciation direct grant school system completely fallacious erroneous hon member high regard column direct grant system direct grant school connect fully vocational school word appreciate complete surrender lifetime vocationalism education people child word adequate describe appreciation hon member million parent country world people sacrifice direct grant school speak right opposition probe attitude member parliament direct grant school attitude voluntary school general great appreciation right hon friend secretary state direct grant school voluntary school appreciation equal monumental appreciation hon member birmingham handsworth sir e boyle past great regret hear remain member house continue benefit wisdom guidance give year pm great direct grant school merseyside particularly think famous girl school seafield grammar school girl convent school run sister sacred heart place inside industrial borough bootle order found education poor direct grant school force valid reason salubrious neighbourhood advantage go authority direct grant school industrial midst find new method try educate child proper standard grateful hon member wokingham provide figure illuminating idea tremendous contribution builder direct grant voluntary school society government lightly dismiss happen direct grant school benefit country continue improved column child hope place hon member speak great broad social mix accept degree social mix take place direct grant school merseyside moment great broad social mix speak morning fact application present system selection take place cent child merseyside leave high standard education available direct grant school interest education arouse member examination panel experience purely practical give opportunity high academic education elementary school attitude party opposite problem cent opportunity want rid direct grant school simply sake think child give excellent education available direct grant school pertubation labour bench situation country happen hon member rutland stamford mr kenneth lewis talk direct grant school get chop sure gracious phrase think moment direct grant school chop support government get chop speak assurance intend rid direct grant school irate position think defend party government mind destruction direct grant school talk let plainly catholic merseyside progress people having pick produce leader produce argument time move discern system good leave tremendous column problem want talk wokingham rutland entitle speak area know little know great deal liverpool waterfront tremendous privilege selection hon member norfolk south mr j e b hill talk sir ernest barker manchester grammar school sir ernest generous say course take advantage fortunate marvellous way thing right hon gentleman side house appreciate advantage manchester grammar school object want advantage spread spread successfully labour party present government start advance educational idea mr reginald eyre hon gentleman stand understand government position destruction direct grant school include manchester grammar school essential produce social progress cent hon gentleman talk view destruction direct grant school essential mr mahon think happen context party absorption coordination school area lead extension sort education system want course shall hurry fast slow know danger education committee year year hold dogmatic view member party education remarkable happening direct grant school merseyside teacher high degree educational qualification convent live poor part merseyside benefit greatly social standard raise integration go want teacher column direct grant school dockside area teach need want inconvenience committee prolong speech spoil atmosphere create hon gentleman opposite debate pleasant listen occasion shall opportunity subject wrong let say country sacrifice vocational service contribution great education system direct grant school appreciate member committee mr david lane shall wind debate briefly know committee want come decision amendment morning hon friend powerful case make job easier right hon lady minister state speak charm hate have harden heart mind resist argument answer case point helpful good know white paper publish exciting know cover high education matter believe government prejudge donnison matter reassure crumb comfort school concern hear right hon lady absolutely clear question school sentence upheaval month notice hon member bootle mr simon mahon say interesting thing like probe help feel tribute direct grant school government show strange sort appreciation contribution provision bill say school chop wonder grasp threat bill occasionally imply level shall level dare mean impression hope return question occasion blow inflict provision blow educational column remind committee sentence crowther report fear provision blow social harmonisation right hon lady try play suggest social mix wide mix feel wide deny provide social mix valuable bridge maintain independent sector hardness heart school government knock bridge bill strike blow partnership government local authority heighten suspicion government real aim near possible total state monopoly education financial implication cover hon friend calculation capital cost provide maintain system place pupil go direct grant school figure hon friend quote berkshire million country large sum matter direct grant school amendment direct believe government irresponsible educationally socially financially attitude smack spite obstinacy help suspect allow doctrinaire prejudice prevail common sense suspicion number score hope hon friend translate suspicion uneasiness strong vote amendment question amendment committee divide aye no division eyre mr reginald hill mr j e b lane mr david lewis mr kenneth montgomery mr van straubenzee mr armstrong mr ernest bacon miss alice evans mr fred jones mr j idwal mahon mr simon newens mr stan price mr william woof mr robert oclock chairman adjourn committee question pursuant stand order committee adjourn till tuesday march halfpast oclock follow member attend committee brewi mr chairman armstrong mr bacon miss boyle sir e evans mr fred eyre mr hill mr j e b jones mr j idwal lane mr lewis mr kenneth mahon mr simon montgomery mr newens mr price mr william van straubenzee mr woof mr copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve

This bill requires cost estimates prepared by the Congressional Budget Office or the Joint Committee on Taxation to include (1) the cost of servicing the public debt; and (2) a list of any federal agencies, programs, and initiatives with fragmented, overlapping, or duplicative goals or activities covered by the legislation.

right

bill require cost estimate prepare congressional budget office joint committee taxation include cost service public debt list federal agency program initiative fragmented overlapping duplicative goal activity cover legislation

Speeches, etc. 3.56 p.m. Mrs. Margaret Thatcher (Finchley) When James Callaghanthe Prime Minister announced his provisional decision to set up a Select Committee to consider this matter, he undertook to consult the other parties in the House. He has done so, and I am very grateful to him for it. I should now like to explain in my own words why, in general, although this is a House of Commons matter, the Opposition support a great deal of what he says and his broad conclusions. It has involved a great deal of study, because a small amount of conclusion often involves a great deal of preceding study. There are many other cases to [column 980]consider, and many more matters such as the blue-covered Salmon Report of 1966 as well as the red-covered Salmon Report of 1976 to be taken into account. The purpose of the inquiry is, of course, to ensure that the high standards which are expected of a Member of Parliament are upheld and that thereby we retain public confidence in Parliament as a whole. This means that, from time, to time, we have the distasteful task of inquiring into cases about which there is some public disquiet. We have this task in common with other members of other professions, and we have to find the best way of carrying it out. I agree with the Prime Minister in his choice of a Select Committee as a proper vehicle for this inquiry. He quoted from the blue-covered Salmon Report that we should not set up a tribunal of inquiry except where there was very grave public disquiet and public lack of confidence. I do not believe that that is so in this case. The right hon. Gentleman has chosen, I believe rightly, very wide terms of reference for this Select Committee. I have been through as many of the other Select Committee Reports as I could manage to read during the weekend, and I can find none comparable in the breadth of its terms of reference with this one. Most of them have referred to single specific instances which have been thoroughly investigated by the Committee concerned. But they have been specific. They have referred to existing Members of the House. I understand that this resolution may go wider and take into account those who were previously Members of this House. This is the only resolution that I have been able to find which is so wide in its terms of reference, and it means that it takes on some of the character of an inquisitorial proceeding in the same way as a tribunal of inquiry is an inquisitorial proceeding. That means that we have to take special care to protect those who are innocent, because by its nature an inquisitorial proceeding is rather alien to our laws of justice in this country. The blue-covered Salmon Report pointed out that it is a quite different procedure from any in a court, in regard to which there have been previous inquiries, and where specific allegations are put down in writing. The person accused knows exactly what the allegations are, [column 981]and depositions are taken from witnesses. There are two sides, with either prosecutor and defendant or plaintiff and defendant. There is nothing of this kind in a tribunal or in a Select Committee proceeding. It is an inquisitorial proceeding in which allegations emerge as the inquiry goes on. This renders it specially liable to hurt the innocent person—and in particular, if there is a long time elapsing between the allegation and the conclusion, the reputation of the innocent person may never recover. I believe that this puts a very special duty on us to ensure that, while all the relevant evidence is published, no one is subjected needlessly to injustice. This brings me immediately to the point about the publication of evidence, and to the particular motion on the Order Paper, which is in rather strange wording and not easy to understand. I believe that the best way to achieve these two aims—namely, to bring out all the relevant evidence but to protect the person who is innocent—is to see that every single bit of evidence is published at the time the finding is made by the Select Committee. If by any chance there is then some evidence which goes against a person who is innocent, at least there is the immediate antidote of the finding of the Select Committee. It is not possible always to have 100 per cent. protection for the innocent in carrying out an inquiry of this kind, but we must make the protection as absolute as possible. This has been done in many past cases. I have been through the Allighan case and all through the Boothby case. Those were single cases. The evidence in the Boothby case ran to some 290 pages. Every single bit was published. The evidence in the Allighan case ran to 122 pages. Every single bit was published. There has been no question about the publication of all relevant facts. There may from time to time have been discussions about what the House did concerning those relevant facts, but on the whole there has been no criticism that the relevant facts have ever been withheld. Every single thing has been published. How can there be a cover-up when every single bit is published? It is all published and it is all available [column 982]for the House to consider when it comes to debate the matter, and it is the House that decides. It is not a Select Committee. I now turn to what I believe is a misunderstanding which has arisen from the wording in the Order Paper concerning publication. What I think the words mean, and are intended to mean, is that all oral and documentary evidence shall be published in as much as it is proper evidence. Most of us would not wish to consider improper or irrelevant evidence, because it could only be prejudicial. Mr. Skinner rose—— Mrs. Thatcher May I just finish? I recognise that the hon. Gentleman feels very strongly about this. So do I. If we look at the reports, we find that all the evidence has been published. I remember only one case where an hon. Member has moved concerning suppression of evidence. That case was taken to the Committee of Privileges. It was a very long time ago. That is why I think it is important to have all the evidence published. For my part, I should be very happy to stand by the normal rules relating to Select Committees. I notice that the Prime Minister said that the word “inadmissible” is not understood in a parliamentary sense. I believe, with respect, that that is not quite right. I believe that it is understood. I spent some time over the weekend learning a great deal from “Erskine May” . Mr. Skinner rose—— Mrs. Thatcher May I read out the appropriate paragraph relating to the publication of minutes of evidence by Select Committees? I will give way to the hon. Gentleman. Mr. Skinner I appreciate the right hon. Lady's point, but does she understand that the crucial point here is not that we must satisfy hon. Members? The people we have to satisfy are the millions who elect us and put us into this place. Indeed, we also have to satisfy those who have been involved in Select Committees dealing with other matters. Does the right hon. Lady know, for instance, that Alan Grimshaw, one of the people partly responsible for the Select Committee on Nationalised Industries [column 983]making an investigation of the National Coal Board's buying of roof supports and so on, is extremely aggrieved at the result of that investigation? The Select Committee did not publish all the evidence which he believed—as distinct from the Committee's view—should have been published. That is the point at issue. Although the House may be happy that all its Members have been safeguarded, the real question is whether a Select Committee in this form, if it decides not to publish all the evidence, can then satisfy all the people outside. Mrs. Thatcher I understand that the direction here relates to all “relevant” evidence, that is to say, all evidence that is relevant. I believe that the next words on the Order Paper, really mean all evidence that is admissible. But in deciding what those words mean, I believe that the proper authority is “Erskine May” other than the Officers of the House. May I read out the rules relating to the publication of minutes of evidence of Select Committees? On page 650 “Erskine May” goes into what is proper and also deals with what is “inadmissible” . That is why I think it is a term understood in the House. It says: It is, therefore, expunged in terms of existing practice if it is improper or inadmissible—and people do not want improper or inadmissible details to be in the evidence. “Erskine May” then goes on to say: and so on. In other words, all evidence which is proper and relevant has to be published, I understand, according to the motion before the House. If that is not so, then most of us would be prepared to say that, provided it is published absolutely at the end, when the findings come out, all evidence should be published if any case is to be raised concerning the [column 984]suppression of evidence. I believe that it is more important to get it all out—but to have none of it coming out until the findings are made—than it is to risk any question about suppression of evidence. But I understand the wording on the Order Paper to mean—and I hope that the advice we shall get is that it means that the Select Committee will take it to mean—all evidence which is relevant and admissible—— Mr. Alexander W. Lyon (York) rose—— Mrs. Thatcher —and that if it is not admissible it ought to be stopped. It sometimes is—as the hon. Member for York (Mr. Lyon), who is a lawyer, well knows—but it is not always easy to stop it before it has come out and some damage has been done. Mr. Alexander W. Lyon I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way. I think, with respect, that there is a difference between what “Erskine May” calls inadmissible and the wording used in the motion, which is What is inadmissible may be, for example, abuse which may not be regarded as orderly in the House and which would be similarly inadmissible in a Select Committee. But it may be that a Select Committee would think that a false allegation against an innocent Member of the House is irrelevant to its general consideration whether some people were guilty of contempt of the House. The Select Committee may think that it would be better in the circumstances not to have such evidence at all. In the one case it would fall within the terms of the motion and would be strictly admissible according to the “Erskine May” test. I agree with the right hon. Lady's general approach to the problem, and would be anxious to follow her line in dealing with the evidence. I think it is very important, therefore, that we should get it right here and now and not leave it to the Select Committee to decide according to its own test. Mrs. Thatcher I do not believe that false allegations against hon. Members which are irrelevant should be published. It is far better to have them published at [column 985]the end of the day than have the proceedings in public or published in the Press all along. I believe that this means what I believe it to mean and I hope it will be made clear to the Select Committee what the House means. All the evidence put forward, if inadmissible in the ordinary usage of the term, should be stopped at the point given or expunged from the record. As we have inquisitorial proceedings here, we can do that. I believe that the right attitude to take is that all the evidence should be published at the time of the findings, so that there is no great gap between the allegations being made and the findings being given. Then there is no question of a cover-up of any kind. If that is done, I believe that we shall have the full facts put before the House and it is the House, not the Select Committee, which decides what is to be done on the findings. Mr. Leo Abse (Pontypool) The right hon. Lady has referred to the bluecovered book of Lord Salmon, but only in passing to the red-covered book. In the latter, Lord Salmon, who is fully seized of the facts to come before the Select Committee, and certainly of the evidence which has precipitated this debate today, came to the conclusion, for reasons he has given, including problems about inadmissibility of evidence, that the Select Committee was an unsuitable vehicle. He recommended that every hon. Member should be placed in the same position as a member of the public before the law in a criminal trial. Why has the right hon. Lady not referred to the recommendation specifically made by Lord Salmon that a Select Committee of this kind is highly unsuitable to deal with these matters which we are trying to lay upon them? Mrs. Thatcher With due respect to the hon. Gentleman—and I recognise that he is a distinguished lawyer—only a Select Committee can inquire into matters of contempt of this House. No tribunal or other body can do it. The other matter into which the Select Committee is to inquire is whether the standards of conduct fall below those expected of hon. Members. This cannot be a trial, or a criminal trial, and the Prime Minister referred to this matter early on. My understanding is that either before or after the Select Committee has reported, the matter [column 986]referred to in Lord Salmon 's red-covered Report, whether there should be a change of law, must be put through this House in the proper way with proper consideration. That is quite separate from what we are doing now. We do no service to anyone to confuse these two issues. I shall address a few words to an amendment which I think will be moved later about whether the Select Committee should have the right to go in and out of public proceedings. I do not think the Select Committee should be given that discretion at this moment. There will be, at the beginning, quite a number of allegations which come before the Select Committee, and some evidence will be heard. If the Select Committee is given the power to go into public proceedings at its own discretion, one thing will be certain—the public will not have all the evidence at the same time. It will have some evidence and it will not have other evidence, and therefore it cannot have the means of judging the whole thing. Immediately there are two sorts of evidence created—one sort which is published at the end with the findings and one sort which is published at the time the allegation is put and the hearing conducted. That would lead to confusion, and would create suspicion, not allay it. It would be quite wrong to give such discretion at this time. On the ordinary procedure of Select Committees, followed in the Boothby case, if the Committee wants extra powers it can come back to the House and ask for them. In the Boothby case, Lord Boothby was given the right to appear or be represented by counsel and the Select Committee was given the right to hear counsel. The Committee had thought that its powers were not enough, so it came back to the House, put its case and got the powers it needed. None of use knows, apart from S. Silkinthe Attorney-General, what is contained in the right hon. and learned Gentleman's files, and none of us knows the allegations which will come before the Committee. But if, after several weeks, the Committee wishes or thinks it proper that some of the proceedings should be held in public, the correct and appropriate thing to do is for the Committee to make such a resolution, come back to the House and seek further powers. Then the decision [column 987]whether some of the evidence should be in public and some in private rests with the House. There is nothing in the Committee proedures to preclude that from happening, and it is the right way to go about it. Mr. Eric Ogden (Liverpool, West Derby) In her desire to protect every Member of this House, the right hon. Lady spoke of consideration being given for six or seven weeks or more. But has she thought that no one can prevent hon. Members or the Press from waiting in the corridors outside the Committee Room to see who goes in and out? Inevitably there will be some conjecture about who goes in and for what purpose. If the Committee cannot call for factual evidence from one hon. Member to clear his name, there is a danger that anyone called to the Committee will have the stigma, or at least the suspicion, attaching to his or her name. If the Committee could hear this evidence in public his name would be cleared. Mrs. Thatcher That is quite different from any allegation being published. I am not certain about the parliamentary law relating to reporting comings and goings in corridors of the House. There have been privilege cases about reporting what goes on in parts of the House which are not the Chamber, and other cases may be referred to the Committee of Privileges. I believe that the mode of operating which the Minister has put forward is, indeed, the best one. Mr. Emlyn Hooson (Montgomery) But is there not a practical difficulty if, as the right hon. Lady has suggested, the Select Committee comes back to the House and asks for discretion to sit in public? It would have to disclose to the House the reasons why it wished to sit in public and that would raise all kinds of problems. If it had the discretion from the start it could exercise that discretion. Mrs. Thatcher It is not right to give a discretion to the Select Committee to hear part of the evidence in public and part in private. That ensures that there are two different sorts of evidence and I think that would create suspicion at the outset. The procedure which we followed in the Boothby and Allighan cases was that [column 988]the hearings were in private, but the public knew everything at the end because everything was published. The hon. and learned Member for Montgomery (Mr. Hooson) cannot say that there is any cover-up when every word of the evidence is published, because there is no cover-up at all. I have given my views on what it means, what I believe it should mean, could mean and will be intended to mean. It is far better that we should proceed in this way than by the only alternative, which is for allegations to be published one by one with a very long time between the allegations being made and the findings being published. This is the worst of all possible worlds. Mr. Alan Clark (Plymouth, Sutton) There are three categories of evidence and they diminish in significance. First, there is “all the evidence” , which my right hon. Friend says she favours publishing—and I agree with her. Secondly, there is “all the admissible evidence” covered by the definition in “Eskine May” which my right hon. Friend read out. Thirdly, there is a still smaller category, which the Prime Minister mentioned, which is “all the relevant evidence” —which means the evidence considered relevant by the subjective tests of the Committee. Which of these groups of evidence does my right hon. Friend favour publishing? Mrs. Thatcher The only evidence is evidence which is related to the case. All the rest is not evidence; it is just scurrilous gossip and rumour. The only evidence, by the nature of the word, is evidence relating to the matter which is before the Select Committee. I hope that there will never be any question of using the Select Committee as a means of propounding gossip or scurrilous rumour, if that is what it is, or as a means of seeing that such gossip is published and uttered beyond the House. If one has any confidence in a Select Committee surely one can trust it to publish all the evidence that truly is evidence and to make an objective assessment. If we do not have that confidence there is no point in setting up the Select Committee. I am sorry that I have taken longer than the Prime Minister, but at least I have been supporting him this time. [column 989]I believe that what he proposes is the right way to go about this matter, and I hope that the Select Committee will be speeded on its way and will get down to what is for it a very difficult task. Copyright © Margaret Thatcher Foundation 2024. All Rights Reserved.

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speech etc pm mrs margaret thatcher finchley james callaghanthe prime minister announce provisional decision set select committee consider matter undertake consult party house grateful like explain word general house commons matter opposition support great deal say broad conclusion involve great deal study small conclusion involve great deal precede study case column matter bluecovered salmon report redcovere salmon report take account purpose inquiry course ensure high standard expect member parliament uphold retain public confidence parliament mean time time distasteful task inquire case public disquiet task common member profession find good way carry agree prime minister choice select committee proper vehicle inquiry quote bluecovered salmon report set tribunal inquiry grave public disquiet public lack confidence believe case right hon gentleman choose believe rightly wide term reference select committee select committee report manage read weekend find comparable breadth term reference refer single specific instance thoroughly investigate committee concern specific refer exist member house understand resolution wider account previously member house resolution able find wide term reference mean take character inquisitorial proceeding way tribunal inquiry inquisitorial proceeding mean special care protect innocent nature inquisitorial proceeding alien law justice country bluecovered salmon report point different procedure court regard previous inquiry specific allegation write person accuse know exactly allegation column deposition take witness side prosecutor defendant plaintiff defendant kind tribunal select committee proceed inquisitorial proceeding allegation emerge inquiry go render specially liable hurt innocent person particular long time elapse allegation conclusion reputation innocent person recover believe put special duty ensure relevant evidence publish subject needlessly injustice bring immediately point publication evidence particular motion order paper strange wording easy understand believe good way achieve aim bring relevant evidence protect person innocent single bit evidence publish time finding select committee chance evidence go person innocent immediate antidote finding select committee possible cent protection innocent carry inquiry kind protection absolute possible past case allighan case boothby case single case evidence boothby case run page single bit publish evidence allighan case run page single bit publish question publication relevant fact time time discussion house concern relevant fact criticism relevant fact withhold single thing publish coverup single bit publish publish available column house consider come debate matter house decide select committee turn believe misunderstanding arise wording order paper concern publication think word mean intend mean oral documentary evidence shall publish proper evidence wish consider improper irrelevant evidence prejudicial mr skinner rise mrs thatcher finish recognise hon gentleman feel strongly look report find evidence publish remember case hon member move concern suppression evidence case take committee privilege long time ago think important evidence publish happy stand normal rule relate select committee notice prime minister say word inadmissible understand parliamentary sense believe respect right believe understand spend time weekend learn great deal erskine mr skinner rise mrs thatcher read appropriate paragraph relate publication minute evidence select committee way hon gentleman mr skinner appreciate right hon ladys point understand crucial point satisfy hon member people satisfy million elect place satisfy involve select committee deal matter right hon lady know instance alan grimshaw people partly responsible select committee nationalise industry column investigation national coal board buying roof support extremely aggrieved result investigation select committee publish evidence believe distinct committee view publish point issue house happy member safeguard real question select committee form decide publish evidence satisfy people outside mrs thatcher understand direction relate relevant evidence evidence relevant believe word order paper mean evidence admissible decide word mean believe proper authority erskine officer house read rule relate publication minute evidence select committee page erskine go proper deal inadmissible think term understand house say expunge term exist practice improper inadmissible people want improper inadmissible detail evidence erskine go word evidence proper relevant publish understand accord motion house prepared provide publish absolutely end finding come evidence publish case raise concern column evidence believe important come finding risk question suppression evidence understand wording order paper mean hope advice shall mean select committee mean evidence relevant admissible mr alexander w lyon york rise mrs thatcher admissible ought stop hon member york mr lyon lawyer know easy stop come damage mr alexander w lyon grateful right hon lady give way think respect difference erskine call inadmissible wording motion inadmissible example abuse regard orderly house similarly inadmissible select committee select committee think false allegation innocent member house irrelevant general consideration people guilty contempt house select committee think well circumstance evidence case fall term motion strictly admissible accord erskine test agree right hon ladys general approach problem anxious follow line deal evidence think important right leave select committee decide accord test mrs thatcher believe false allegation hon member irrelevant publish far well publish column end day proceeding public publish press believe mean believe mean hope clear select committee house mean evidence forward inadmissible ordinary usage term stop point give expunge record inquisitorial proceeding believe right attitude evidence publish time finding great gap allegation finding give question coverup kind believe shall fact house house select committee decide finding mr leo abse pontypool right hon lady refer bluecovered book lord salmon pass redcovere book lord salmon fully seize fact come select committee certainly evidence precipitate debate today come conclusion reason give include problem inadmissibility evidence select committee unsuitable vehicle recommend hon member place position member public law criminal trial right hon lady refer recommendation specifically lord salmon select committee kind highly unsuitable deal matter try lay mrs thatcher respect hon gentleman recognise distinguished lawyer select committee inquire matter contempt house tribunal body matter select committee inquire standard conduct fall expect hon member trial criminal trial prime minister refer matter early understanding select committee report matter column lord salmon s redcovere report change law house proper way proper consideration separate service confuse issue shall address word amendment think move later select committee right public proceeding think select committee give discretion moment beginning number allegation come select committee evidence hear select committee give power public proceeding discretion thing certain public evidence time evidence evidence mean judge thing immediately sort evidence create sort publish end finding sort publish time allegation hearing conduct lead confusion create suspicion allay wrong discretion time ordinary procedure select committee follow boothby case committee want extra power come house ask boothby case lord boothby give right appear represent counsel select committee give right hear counsel committee think power come house case get power need use know apart s silkinthe attorneygeneral contain right hon learn gentlemans file know allegation come committee week committee wish think proper proceeding hold public correct appropriate thing committee resolution come house seek power decision column evidence public private rest house committee proedure preclude happen right way mr eric ogden liverpool west derby desire protect member house right hon lady speak consideration give seven week think prevent hon member press wait corridor outside committee room go inevitably conjecture go purpose committee factual evidence hon member clear danger call committee stigma suspicion attach committee hear evidence public clear mrs thatcher different allegation publish certain parliamentary law relate report coming going corridor house privilege case report go part house chamber case refer committee privilege believe mode operate minister forward good mr emlyn hooson montgomery practical difficulty right hon lady suggest select committee come house ask discretion sit public disclose house reason wish sit public raise kind problem discretion start exercise discretion mrs thatcher right discretion select committee hear evidence public private ensure different sort evidence think create suspicion outset procedure follow boothby allighan case column hearing private public know end publish hon learn member montgomery mr hooson coverup word evidence publish coverup give view mean believe mean mean intend mean far well proceed way alternative allegation publish long time allegation finding publish bad possible world mr alan clark plymouth sutton category evidence diminish significance evidence right hon friend say favour publish agree secondly admissible evidence cover definition eskine right hon friend read thirdly small category prime minister mention relevant evidence mean evidence consider relevant subjective test committee group evidence right hon friend favour publish mrs thatcher evidence evidence relate case rest evidence scurrilous gossip rumour evidence nature word evidence relate matter select committee hope question select committee means propound gossip scurrilous rumour means see gossip publish utter house confidence select committee surely trust publish evidence truly evidence objective assessment confidence point set select committee sorry take long prime minister support time column believe propose right way matter hope select committee speed way difficult task copyright margaret thatcher foundation right reserve