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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.5

I do not have that specific figure in front of me now, but I can tell Douglas Ross that, in a whole variety of different sectors, there is provision available for young people to participate in developing their skills—whether that is in the provision of college places around the country, in the provision of modern apprenticeships, in the development of foundation and graduate apprenticeships, which are part of the Government’s reform programme, or through making available university places. We find that a record number of young people from Scotland are participating in higher education and, much to my satisfaction and to the satisfaction of the Government given its policy objectives, a record number of young people from deprived backgrounds are taking part in higher education. I accept that we must always keep those issues under review, which is why we commissioned the Withers review, and we are taking forward the reform of post-school education as a consequence of that work to ensure that Scotland’s skills system meets the needs not only of the population of Scotland but of the businesses of Scotland, and in support of our approach to investment in our country, too.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I do not have that specific figure in front of me now, but I can tell Douglas Ross that, in a whole variety of different sectors, there is provision available for young people to participate in developing their skills—whether that is in the provision of college places around the country, in the provision of modern apprenticeships, in the development of foundation and graduate apprenticeships, which are part of the Government’s reform programme, or through making available university places. We find that a record number of young people from Scotland are participating in higher education and, much to my satisfaction and to the satisfaction of the Government given its policy objectives, a record number of young people from deprived backgrounds are taking part in higher education. I accept that we must always keep those issues under review, which is why we commissioned the Withers review, and we are taking forward the reform of post-school education as a consequence of that work to ensure that Scotland’s skills system meets the needs not only of the population of Scotland but of the businesses of Scotland, and in support of our approach to investment in our country, too.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.6

If I thought it after his first answer, I am certain after the second that the First Minister has not read the extremely important OECD report, which is damning on his Government’s failure over 17 years. The First Minister said that he was satisfied with what is happening. I am not satisfied by the fact that he cannot come to the chamber and answer a simple question. Let me tell him the answer that he should know, as First Minister and as a former education secretary, which is that 52,700 young Scots aged between 16 and 24 are economically inactive and not in education. Why should the First Minister know that? Because that is one in 10 16 to 24-year-olds, and it is the highest number on record—the highest number ever. I would have thought that the First Minister would have been aware of that. The young persons guarantee was launched by John Swinney when he was education secretary. Just a few weeks ago, the minister in charge of the young persons guarantee said that its work had now been mainstreamed across Government. If we strip away the ministerial jargon, it is clear that this complacent Government thinks that the job is done. I remind the First Minister, however, that those alarming figures—the highest-ever number on record—tell a very different story. Is it not the case that the young persons guarantee is yet another broken SNP promise?

Douglas Ross

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25531

First Minister’s Question Time

If I thought it after his first answer, I am certain after the second that the First Minister has not read the extremely important OECD report, which is damning on his Government’s failure over 17 years. The First Minister said that he was satisfied with what is happening. I am not satisfied by the fact that he cannot come to the chamber and answer a simple question. Let me tell him the answer that he should know, as First Minister and as a former education secretary, which is that 52,700 young Scots aged between 16 and 24 are economically inactive and not in education. Why should the First Minister know that? Because that is one in 10 16 to 24-year-olds, and it is the highest number on record—the highest number ever. I would have thought that the First Minister would have been aware of that. The young persons guarantee was launched by John Swinney when he was education secretary. Just a few weeks ago, the minister in charge of the young persons guarantee said that its work had now been mainstreamed across Government. If we strip away the ministerial jargon, it is clear that this complacent Government thinks that the job is done. I remind the First Minister, however, that those alarming figures—the highest-ever number on record—tell a very different story. Is it not the case that the young persons guarantee is yet another broken SNP promise?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.7

No. We take ideas and projects and make them available right across the country. The young persons guarantee started off as a proposition in the City of Edinburgh. It was a tremendously good idea, which was led by Sandy Begbie of Scottish Financial Enterprise, partnering with the City of Edinburgh Council. It was a very good proposition. We listened to that learning and we applied it across the country. That is the right thing to do. The problem with the statistics that Douglas Ross puts to me is that, in the most recent economic inactivity data available, there was a significant fall in economic inactivity in Scotland and an increase in economic participation. The issues are challenging, and the work on tackling economic inactivity is fundamental to encouraging economic participation, but it commands the focus of Government to maximise the number of people taking part in the labour market and participating in Scotland’s economy.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

No. We take ideas and projects and make them available right across the country. The young persons guarantee started off as a proposition in the City of Edinburgh. It was a tremendously good idea, which was led by Sandy Begbie of Scottish Financial Enterprise, partnering with the City of Edinburgh Council. It was a very good proposition. We listened to that learning and we applied it across the country. That is the right thing to do. The problem with the statistics that Douglas Ross puts to me is that, in the most recent economic inactivity data available, there was a significant fall in economic inactivity in Scotland and an increase in economic participation. The issues are challenging, and the work on tackling economic inactivity is fundamental to encouraging economic participation, but it commands the focus of Government to maximise the number of people taking part in the labour market and participating in Scotland’s economy.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.8

The real problem with the figures is that Scotland’s First Minister does not know that 52,700 16 to 24-year-olds are economically inactive and not in education—the highest-ever number on record. That is the problem, and that is what John Swinney should be focusing on. The OECD is not alone in highlighting how weak the SNP is in delivering for young people. Today, Audit Scotland issued a damning verdict on the funding cuts to Scotland’s colleges. The SNP’s underfunding of our college sector has left many institutions with a bleak and uncertain future. Audit Scotland predicts that the situation will only get worse, with further job losses and rising financial deficits. Under the SNP, we have a skills strategy that does not help people to get jobs, an education reform agenda that does not lead to any reforms, colleges that are going bust and a young persons guarantee that does not guarantee anything. How is John Swinney, as First Minister, going to do a better job with any of that than he did as education secretary?

Douglas Ross

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25531

First Minister’s Question Time

The real problem with the figures is that Scotland’s First Minister does not know that 52,700 16 to 24-year-olds are economically inactive and not in education—the highest-ever number on record. That is the problem, and that is what John Swinney should be focusing on. The OECD is not alone in highlighting how weak the SNP is in delivering for young people. Today, Audit Scotland issued a damning verdict on the funding cuts to Scotland’s colleges. The SNP’s underfunding of our college sector has left many institutions with a bleak and uncertain future. Audit Scotland predicts that the situation will only get worse, with further job losses and rising financial deficits. Under the SNP, we have a skills strategy that does not help people to get jobs, an education reform agenda that does not lead to any reforms, colleges that are going bust and a young persons guarantee that does not guarantee anything. How is John Swinney, as First Minister, going to do a better job with any of that than he did as education secretary?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.9

Obviously, I am very familiar with the contents of this morning’s Audit Scotland report. The Audit Scotland report highlights the challenges that exist in the public finances. The Government is supporting the college sector with £750 million-worth of investment in the current financial year. I welcome that commitment, because it has been delivered against the backdrop of a really difficult financial climate for the public services, which was created by the economic mismanagement of the public finances by the most recent Conservative Government—[Interruption.]

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

Obviously, I am very familiar with the contents of this morning’s Audit Scotland report. The Audit Scotland report highlights the challenges that exist in the public finances. The Government is supporting the college sector with £750 million-worth of investment in the current financial year. I welcome that commitment, because it has been delivered against the backdrop of a really difficult financial climate for the public services, which was created by the economic mismanagement of the public finances by the most recent Conservative Government—[Interruption.]

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.10

Let us hear the First Minister.

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

Let us hear the First Minister.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.11

—for which Douglas Ross was a loyal foot soldier who wanted me to follow the budget of Liz Truss. The problem that Douglas Ross has is that he perpetually comes along to this Parliament to ask me to spend more money—[Interruption.]

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

—for which Douglas Ross was a loyal foot soldier who wanted me to follow the budget of Liz Truss. The problem that Douglas Ross has is that he perpetually comes along to this Parliament to ask me to spend more money—[Interruption.]

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.12

Mr Ross, you have put your question. Please listen.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

Mr Ross, you have put your question. Please listen.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.13

Last week, he asked me to spend more money on peak rail fares and on free school meals for primary 6 and 7 pupils. Now, he is asking me to spend more money on colleges when he will not support—[Interruption.]

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

Last week, he asked me to spend more money on peak rail fares and on free school meals for primary 6 and 7 pupils. Now, he is asking me to spend more money on colleges when he will not support—[Interruption.]

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.14

I ask those members whose voices I am aware that I can hear from here to resist the temptation to contribute at this point. You have not been called to speak.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

I ask those members whose voices I am aware that I can hear from here to resist the temptation to contribute at this point. You have not been called to speak.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.15

Last week, Mr Ross asked me to spend more money on free school meals and on peak rail fares, and, today, he wants me to spend more money on colleges, at the same time as he wants me to reduce tax and take £1.5 billion out of the public finances, and to support the Liz Truss economic madness that has inflicted misery on our country. I am going to listen to nothing that Douglas Ross says to me in his remaining couple of weeks, because his record is one of absolute abject economic failure.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

Last week, Mr Ross asked me to spend more money on free school meals and on peak rail fares, and, today, he wants me to spend more money on colleges, at the same time as he wants me to reduce tax and take £1.5 billion out of the public finances, and to support the Liz Truss economic madness that has inflicted misery on our country. I am going to listen to nothing that Douglas Ross says to me in his remaining couple of weeks, because his record is one of absolute abject economic failure.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.17

Yesterday, John Swinney admitted that his party had spent too long focusing on what it cannot do rather than on what it can do, so let us look at one area in which it has full control and the consequence of its failure to focus on it—our NHS. On the Scottish National Party’s watch, one in six Scots is on an NHS waiting list, cancer treatment standards have been missed, almost 5,000 children are waiting for mental health treatment, people face dental waits of three years, and more than 1,100 nursing jobs have been cut since the start of the year, when we already have staff shortages. Our NHS staff have been left at breaking point. Does the First Minister know how many working hours were lost to NHS staff absence last year?

2. Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/24738

First Minister’s Question Time

Yesterday, John Swinney admitted that his party had spent too long focusing on what it cannot do rather than on what it can do, so let us look at one area in which it has full control and the consequence of its failure to focus on it—our NHS. On the Scottish National Party’s watch, one in six Scots is on an NHS waiting list, cancer treatment standards have been missed, almost 5,000 children are waiting for mental health treatment, people face dental waits of three years, and more than 1,100 nursing jobs have been cut since the start of the year, when we already have staff shortages. Our NHS staff have been left at breaking point. Does the First Minister know how many working hours were lost to NHS staff absence last year?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.18

I would be the first to accept that there are challenges in the national health service, which are a consequence—none of us can deny this—of the pressures that now apply to it as a consequence of the Covid pandemic. As every other health system in the western world is doing, our health service is still wrestling with the challenges that come from that period. What I can say to Mr Sarwar is that the latest figures show that there has been a 9.9 per cent increase in in-patient and day-case activity year on year and a 2.7 per cent increase in out-patient activity. In relation to planned care, there has been an increase in capacity as a consequence of the introduction of the national treatment centres, as a result of which 20,000 additional surgeries and a range of different interventions are being undertaken. On cancer treatment, which Mr Sarwar mentioned, we are treating more patients with cancer on time within the 62-day standard—3 per cent more compared with the same quarter a year ago, and 12.8 per cent more compared with the position 10 years ago. That is a story of the national health service—and our committed staff the length and breadth of the country—doing everything that they can to ensure that we meet the needs of individuals in very difficult and challenging circumstances. That will remain the focus of the Government.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I would be the first to accept that there are challenges in the national health service, which are a consequence—none of us can deny this—of the pressures that now apply to it as a consequence of the Covid pandemic. As every other health system in the western world is doing, our health service is still wrestling with the challenges that come from that period. What I can say to Mr Sarwar is that the latest figures show that there has been a 9.9 per cent increase in in-patient and day-case activity year on year and a 2.7 per cent increase in out-patient activity. In relation to planned care, there has been an increase in capacity as a consequence of the introduction of the national treatment centres, as a result of which 20,000 additional surgeries and a range of different interventions are being undertaken. On cancer treatment, which Mr Sarwar mentioned, we are treating more patients with cancer on time within the 62-day standard—3 per cent more compared with the same quarter a year ago, and 12.8 per cent more compared with the position 10 years ago. That is a story of the national health service—and our committed staff the length and breadth of the country—doing everything that they can to ensure that we meet the needs of individuals in very difficult and challenging circumstances. That will remain the focus of the Government.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.19

The fact of the matter is that NHS waiting lists are getting longer, not shorter, on this Government’s watch. The answer that the First Minister was looking for is that more than 15.3 million working hours were lost in a single year in the middle of an NHS crisis. That is the equivalent of 640,000 days lost in our NHS when one in six Scots is on an NHS waiting list. That has real consequences. Let us take the example of the experience of Karen Campbell, a national health service dental nurse of 25 years, who has been forced to quit after waiting for years for prolapse and hip surgery. Karen just wanted to get back to the job that she loved, but she could not because of her untreated condition. Karen said this: “It would have been so much easier if they’d fixed me up and kept me working, but now I feel let down. I still appreciate the NHS, but my experience shows how broken the system is.” Can the First Minister explain why an NHS dental nurse has been forced to quit due to NHS waiting lists, when we have NHS staff shortages and an NHS crisis?

Anas Sarwar

uk.org.publicwhip/person/24738

First Minister’s Question Time

The fact of the matter is that NHS waiting lists are getting longer, not shorter, on this Government’s watch. The answer that the First Minister was looking for is that more than 15.3 million working hours were lost in a single year in the middle of an NHS crisis. That is the equivalent of 640,000 days lost in our NHS when one in six Scots is on an NHS waiting list. That has real consequences. Let us take the example of the experience of Karen Campbell, a national health service dental nurse of 25 years, who has been forced to quit after waiting for years for prolapse and hip surgery. Karen just wanted to get back to the job that she loved, but she could not because of her untreated condition. Karen said this: “It would have been so much easier if they’d fixed me up and kept me working, but now I feel let down. I still appreciate the NHS, but my experience shows how broken the system is.” Can the First Minister explain why an NHS dental nurse has been forced to quit due to NHS waiting lists, when we have NHS staff shortages and an NHS crisis?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.20

I very much regret the circumstances that Anas Sarwar puts to me about Karen Campbell’s case, because it is obviously in the interests of the national health service for its employees to be treated timeously, as is the case in all walks of economic life, to ensure that people can get back to their work. Therefore, I fundamentally accept the importance of the point that has been put to me. However, there are legitimate challenges that are being wrestled with in relation to the impact as a consequence of the increased demand on services that arose from the Covid pandemic. The Government has expanded national health service staff resources over a number of years. Nursing and midwifery staffing is up 17.5 per cent since the Government came to power. We have seen a 68 per cent increase in the number of medical and dental consultants who have been recruited since this Government came to power. Therefore, the Government has been investing. We have taken decisions to allocate more investment than would have been the case had we just passed on Barnett consequentials, because we have been prepared to take the decisions that Mr Sarwar no longer supports with regard to taxation in order that we have more resources available in the national health service. One of the Government’s key interventions has been to ensure that we focus at all times on maximising the number of staff that we have available, despite the challenges of increasing demand on the service.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I very much regret the circumstances that Anas Sarwar puts to me about Karen Campbell’s case, because it is obviously in the interests of the national health service for its employees to be treated timeously, as is the case in all walks of economic life, to ensure that people can get back to their work. Therefore, I fundamentally accept the importance of the point that has been put to me. However, there are legitimate challenges that are being wrestled with in relation to the impact as a consequence of the increased demand on services that arose from the Covid pandemic. The Government has expanded national health service staff resources over a number of years. Nursing and midwifery staffing is up 17.5 per cent since the Government came to power. We have seen a 68 per cent increase in the number of medical and dental consultants who have been recruited since this Government came to power. Therefore, the Government has been investing. We have taken decisions to allocate more investment than would have been the case had we just passed on Barnett consequentials, because we have been prepared to take the decisions that Mr Sarwar no longer supports with regard to taxation in order that we have more resources available in the national health service. One of the Government’s key interventions has been to ensure that we focus at all times on maximising the number of staff that we have available, despite the challenges of increasing demand on the service.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.21

Some 15.3 million working hours were lost in our NHS in one year, and that is the First Minister’s answer. That is simply not good enough, because Scots deserve an NHS that is there when they need it. However, under this SNP Government, even our NHS staff cannot get the treatment that they need in time to get back to work and treat others. That has created a doom loop of delays in which everyone loses out. The simple truth is that our NHS is not safe with the SNP, and no amount of warm words will cut it. The record shows that it cannot be trusted, because this Government has lost its way. It is incompetent, and it now admits that it has spent too long focusing on campaigning rather than governing. Why are NHS patients and staff being forced to pay the price of this SNP Government’s neglect?

Anas Sarwar

uk.org.publicwhip/person/24738

First Minister’s Question Time

Some 15.3 million working hours were lost in our NHS in one year, and that is the First Minister’s answer. That is simply not good enough, because Scots deserve an NHS that is there when they need it. However, under this SNP Government, even our NHS staff cannot get the treatment that they need in time to get back to work and treat others. That has created a doom loop of delays in which everyone loses out. The simple truth is that our NHS is not safe with the SNP, and no amount of warm words will cut it. The record shows that it cannot be trusted, because this Government has lost its way. It is incompetent, and it now admits that it has spent too long focusing on campaigning rather than governing. Why are NHS patients and staff being forced to pay the price of this SNP Government’s neglect?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.22

There are challenges in the national health service, and there is not an occasion when I am questioned on the subject when I do not accept that point, but there are also a couple of realities that we have to wrestle with. The first is the increased demand that was created as a consequence of the Covid pandemic. Our health service staff are working as hard as they possibly can, and I admire them for all that they are doing to try to deal with that situation. The second reality is the financial context in which we are operating. This Government has taken some pretty difficult decisions to increase the money that is available to the national health service so that, for example, we can afford pay deals in order that we avoid industrial action. That has been such an important element of sustaining the national health service in Scotland, and I welcome the positive dialogue that has taken place. However, the problem here is the perpetuation of austerity. Mr Sarwar told me during the election campaign that there would be “No austerity under Labour”, so Mr Sarwar can try—

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

There are challenges in the national health service, and there is not an occasion when I am questioned on the subject when I do not accept that point, but there are also a couple of realities that we have to wrestle with. The first is the increased demand that was created as a consequence of the Covid pandemic. Our health service staff are working as hard as they possibly can, and I admire them for all that they are doing to try to deal with that situation. The second reality is the financial context in which we are operating. This Government has taken some pretty difficult decisions to increase the money that is available to the national health service so that, for example, we can afford pay deals in order that we avoid industrial action. That has been such an important element of sustaining the national health service in Scotland, and I welcome the positive dialogue that has taken place. However, the problem here is the perpetuation of austerity. Mr Sarwar told me during the election campaign that there would be “No austerity under Labour”, so Mr Sarwar can try—

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.23

It is always somebody else’s fault.

Anas Sarwar

uk.org.publicwhip/person/24738

First Minister’s Question Time

It is always somebody else’s fault.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.24

Mr Sarwar.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

Mr Sarwar.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.25

It is always somebody else’s fault.

Anas Sarwar

uk.org.publicwhip/person/24738

First Minister’s Question Time

It is always somebody else’s fault.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.26

Let us hear the First Minister.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

Let us hear the First Minister.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.27

Mr Sarwar can make all the gesticulations he wants at me. Those were his words: “No austerity under Labour”, and we are getting austerity under the Labour Party as we speak. So my message to Mr Sarwar—[Interruption.]

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

Mr Sarwar can make all the gesticulations he wants at me. Those were his words: “No austerity under Labour”, and we are getting austerity under the Labour Party as we speak. So my message to Mr Sarwar—[Interruption.]

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.28

Members.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

Members.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.29

—is that, if he wants to help the situation, he should say to his UK masters to end the austerity because, as he well knows, all roads lead back to Westminster on NHS funding.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

—is that, if he wants to help the situation, he should say to his UK masters to end the austerity because, as he well knows, all roads lead back to Westminster on NHS funding.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.31

To ask the First Minister when the Cabinet will next meet. (S6F-03353)

3. Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25500

First Minister’s Question Time

To ask the First Minister when the Cabinet will next meet. (S6F-03353)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.32

The Cabinet will next meet on Tuesday.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The Cabinet will next meet on Tuesday.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.33

Last night, I chaired a packed town-hall meeting in South Queensferry. For four years, my constituents have had their quality of life destroyed by hundreds of high-performance, illegally modified cars and motorbikes racing around their beautiful town. The drivers of those vehicles will abuse and intimidate anyone who approaches them where they gather, in the car park at the foot of the iconic Forth bridge. Pets have been killed, hotels have lost trade and nobody is getting any sleep. Residents such as pensioner Andy Scott are really worried about road safety. In fact, just as our meeting was concluding, there was a collision right outside our venue, with a motorcyclist rushed to hospital. Police are appealing for information about that. The racing and the antisocial behaviour is happening in Inverness, parts of Glasgow, Crail and many other areas. Will the First Minister meet me and agree to establish a national task force to examine what more can be done to address such criminal behaviour, which is blighting so many lives?

Alex Cole-Hamilton

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25500

First Minister’s Question Time

Last night, I chaired a packed town-hall meeting in South Queensferry. For four years, my constituents have had their quality of life destroyed by hundreds of high-performance, illegally modified cars and motorbikes racing around their beautiful town. The drivers of those vehicles will abuse and intimidate anyone who approaches them where they gather, in the car park at the foot of the iconic Forth bridge. Pets have been killed, hotels have lost trade and nobody is getting any sleep. Residents such as pensioner Andy Scott are really worried about road safety. In fact, just as our meeting was concluding, there was a collision right outside our venue, with a motorcyclist rushed to hospital. Police are appealing for information about that. The racing and the antisocial behaviour is happening in Inverness, parts of Glasgow, Crail and many other areas. Will the First Minister meet me and agree to establish a national task force to examine what more can be done to address such criminal behaviour, which is blighting so many lives?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.34

First, I am very sorry to hear of the circumstances in South Queensferry. It is a beautiful part of our country and an iconic location, and I am sorry that members of the public are experiencing what they are experiencing. The Government engages substantively on the question of road safety. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport has been briefing Cabinet on her concerns about road fatalities, which are a very serious and current problem, so that issue is very much on the Cabinet’s agenda. I am very happy to have discussions with Mr Cole-Hamilton on the subject and to determine what further action can be taken. The incident last night that Alex Cole-Hamilton raised will have involved police interaction, and I am sure that the police will have been involved in other instances of that kind. I am happy to host discussions to see what more can be done to address the situation. There may be some legislative issues that may be worth considering. I fear that some of those will not be within our areas of responsibility because they are road traffic issues, but I am happy to explore all possibilities.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

First, I am very sorry to hear of the circumstances in South Queensferry. It is a beautiful part of our country and an iconic location, and I am sorry that members of the public are experiencing what they are experiencing. The Government engages substantively on the question of road safety. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport has been briefing Cabinet on her concerns about road fatalities, which are a very serious and current problem, so that issue is very much on the Cabinet’s agenda. I am very happy to have discussions with Mr Cole-Hamilton on the subject and to determine what further action can be taken. The incident last night that Alex Cole-Hamilton raised will have involved police interaction, and I am sure that the police will have been involved in other instances of that kind. I am happy to host discussions to see what more can be done to address the situation. There may be some legislative issues that may be worth considering. I fear that some of those will not be within our areas of responsibility because they are road traffic issues, but I am happy to explore all possibilities.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.36

To ask the First Minister what the implications are for public health in Scotland of the United Kingdom Government’s announcement that it plans to ban junk food advertising before 9 pm. (S6F-03358)

4. Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25511

First Minister’s Question Time

To ask the First Minister what the implications are for public health in Scotland of the United Kingdom Government’s announcement that it plans to ban junk food advertising before 9 pm. (S6F-03358)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.37

Improving diet and reducing health inequalities remains a public health priority for the Government. We know that food advertising is significantly skewed towards food that is high in fat, sugar and salt in comparison with healthier options such as fruit and vegetables. That is why the Scottish Government has long advocated for restrictions on the broadcast advertising of less healthy food and drink to children before 9 pm. I welcome the United Kingdom Government’s announcement that it intends to introduce those restrictions next year.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

Improving diet and reducing health inequalities remains a public health priority for the Government. We know that food advertising is significantly skewed towards food that is high in fat, sugar and salt in comparison with healthier options such as fruit and vegetables. That is why the Scottish Government has long advocated for restrictions on the broadcast advertising of less healthy food and drink to children before 9 pm. I welcome the United Kingdom Government’s announcement that it intends to introduce those restrictions next year.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.38

I have been following closely the work of food experts Henry Dimbleby and Dr Chris van Tulleken regarding ultra-processed foods and foods that are high in fat, sugar or salt. I am aware that the Scottish Government has been calling for such a move from the UK Government, but can the First Minister comment specifically on whether he believes that that move will help to address issues such as childhood obesity, and can he provide an update on how that work will complement the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Act 2022?

Emma Harper

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25511

First Minister’s Question Time

I have been following closely the work of food experts Henry Dimbleby and Dr Chris van Tulleken regarding ultra-processed foods and foods that are high in fat, sugar or salt. I am aware that the Scottish Government has been calling for such a move from the UK Government, but can the First Minister comment specifically on whether he believes that that move will help to address issues such as childhood obesity, and can he provide an update on how that work will complement the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Act 2022?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.39

The Scottish Government remains committed to using the latest scientific consensus of established evidence to inform our view on ultra-processed foods. Many ultra-processed foods are high in fat, sugar or salt, which can contribute to diet-related conditions. However, some food that is classed as ultra-processed, such as wholegrain breads and breakfast cereals, can be consumed as part of a balanced diet. We continue to endorse a healthy balanced diet as represented by the “Eatwell Guide”. That guide will support progress towards achieving our Scottish dietary goals, and it complements our vision for Scotland to be a good food nation where people from every walk of life can take pride and pleasure in, and benefit from, the food that they produce, buy, cook, serve and eat each day. There are significant issues, and opportunities in the education system to enable a deep understanding of the nutritional value of particular types of food.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The Scottish Government remains committed to using the latest scientific consensus of established evidence to inform our view on ultra-processed foods. Many ultra-processed foods are high in fat, sugar or salt, which can contribute to diet-related conditions. However, some food that is classed as ultra-processed, such as wholegrain breads and breakfast cereals, can be consumed as part of a balanced diet. We continue to endorse a healthy balanced diet as represented by the “Eatwell Guide”. That guide will support progress towards achieving our Scottish dietary goals, and it complements our vision for Scotland to be a good food nation where people from every walk of life can take pride and pleasure in, and benefit from, the food that they produce, buy, cook, serve and eat each day. There are significant issues, and opportunities in the education system to enable a deep understanding of the nutritional value of particular types of food.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.40

It is welcome that the UK Government has hit the ground running with the delivery of its child health action plan, which includes action on childhood obesity. Given that a recent Scottish health survey found that one third of Scottish children are at risk of being overweight, does the First Minister accept that the UK Government action is an opportunity to act with urgency to use the devolved powers that we have in Scotland?

Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26008

First Minister’s Question Time

It is welcome that the UK Government has hit the ground running with the delivery of its child health action plan, which includes action on childhood obesity. Given that a recent Scottish health survey found that one third of Scottish children are at risk of being overweight, does the First Minister accept that the UK Government action is an opportunity to act with urgency to use the devolved powers that we have in Scotland?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.41

The issues that Carol Mochan raises are very much at the heart of the Government’s response and intervention on these questions. As I have indicated, the UK Government approach is welcome and it obviously complements many of the measures that we are taking, which are being progressed through the curriculum in Scottish education. There is an opportunity to take forward our commitment to ensuring that people have a balanced, healthy diet, which is essential for individuals’ wellbeing.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The issues that Carol Mochan raises are very much at the heart of the Government’s response and intervention on these questions. As I have indicated, the UK Government approach is welcome and it obviously complements many of the measures that we are taking, which are being progressed through the curriculum in Scottish education. There is an opportunity to take forward our commitment to ensuring that people have a balanced, healthy diet, which is essential for individuals’ wellbeing.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.42

I listened with interest to the exchange between the First Minister and Emma Harper. He knows my interest in improving nutritional standards in our country. There are two sides to that. There is the side that Emma Harper raised, but the other side is how we promote healthy food. Does the First Minister agree that the place to start is in our school meals system?

Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25543

First Minister’s Question Time

I listened with interest to the exchange between the First Minister and Emma Harper. He knows my interest in improving nutritional standards in our country. There are two sides to that. There is the side that Emma Harper raised, but the other side is how we promote healthy food. Does the First Minister agree that the place to start is in our school meals system?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.43

The place to start is in the home and in our schools. We need to make sure that everybody is aware of the nutritional value of food, as well as of the dangers of some foods and the damage that they can do. Work can also be done to encourage an active lifestyle, which is very important. I can report to Mr Whittle that I was out running this morning. Mr Whittle is gesticulating to me that he was also out running this morning, so I had better put that on the record to protect his international reputation. The fact that he has asked me that question gives me the opportunity to say that I welcomed his question last week about the Commonwealth games, and I hope that he welcomes the announcement that the Government made on Tuesday about our support for the work of Commonwealth Games Scotland. Having the Commonwealth games in Glasgow in 2026 is a very visual signal of the opportunities to lead a healthy and active lifestyle.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The place to start is in the home and in our schools. We need to make sure that everybody is aware of the nutritional value of food, as well as of the dangers of some foods and the damage that they can do. Work can also be done to encourage an active lifestyle, which is very important. I can report to Mr Whittle that I was out running this morning. Mr Whittle is gesticulating to me that he was also out running this morning, so I had better put that on the record to protect his international reputation. The fact that he has asked me that question gives me the opportunity to say that I welcomed his question last week about the Commonwealth games, and I hope that he welcomes the announcement that the Government made on Tuesday about our support for the work of Commonwealth Games Scotland. Having the Commonwealth games in Glasgow in 2026 is a very visual signal of the opportunities to lead a healthy and active lifestyle.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.45

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to reports that Transport Scotland has spent more than £16 million on consultancy fees in relation to the A83 Rest and Be Thankful project. (S6F-03373)

5. Tim Eagle (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26290

First Minister’s Question Time

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to reports that Transport Scotland has spent more than £16 million on consultancy fees in relation to the A83 Rest and Be Thankful project. (S6F-03373)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.46

The Government remains absolutely committed to keeping Argyll and Bute open for business, and we are acutely aware of the importance of the A83 to the communities and economy of the area. That is why we are delivering a range of measures in the short, medium and long terms to reduce the risk and impact of landslides at the Rest and Be Thankful, and the money that we have spent on consultancy will help us to achieve that. The costs that have been incurred reflect the complexity and challenges of the scheme and cover essential assessment, survey and development work, which will allow the project to progress at pace.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The Government remains absolutely committed to keeping Argyll and Bute open for business, and we are acutely aware of the importance of the A83 to the communities and economy of the area. That is why we are delivering a range of measures in the short, medium and long terms to reduce the risk and impact of landslides at the Rest and Be Thankful, and the money that we have spent on consultancy will help us to achieve that. The costs that have been incurred reflect the complexity and challenges of the scheme and cover essential assessment, survey and development work, which will allow the project to progress at pace.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.47

Last Sunday, the A83 was, once again, closed, and I am told by a constituent that it has been closed yet again this morning. In the 17 years that the Scottish National Party Government has been in office, it has neglected not just the A83 but the A82, the A9 and the A96—I could go on. Residents and businesses are beyond exasperated. Whether it is ferries, the reaching 100 per cent—R100—programme, hospital projects or the A83, am I to assume that the neglect of that work shows that the Government does not care about rural Scotland?Can the First Minister confirm when the works on the A83 at the Rest and Be Thankful will actually commence?

Tim Eagle

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26290

First Minister’s Question Time

Last Sunday, the A83 was, once again, closed, and I am told by a constituent that it has been closed yet again this morning. In the 17 years that the Scottish National Party Government has been in office, it has neglected not just the A83 but the A82, the A9 and the A96—I could go on. Residents and businesses are beyond exasperated. Whether it is ferries, the reaching 100 per cent—R100—programme, hospital projects or the A83, am I to assume that the neglect of that work shows that the Government does not care about rural Scotland?Can the First Minister confirm when the works on the A83 at the Rest and Be Thankful will actually commence?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.48

The work that has been undertaken on the Rest and Be Thankful, which is the focus of Mr Eagle’s question, is essential to ensuring that we have a long-term solution to an extremely challenging route. Anyone who has driven on the A83 knows how challenging the route is because of its exposed nature. On 15 September, a movement on the hill resulted in 500 tonnes of material coming down and the closure of the A83. The Government has put in place the alternative route of the old military road, which avoids an extensive and lengthy detour, because there are no other options. That is a measure of the approach that the Government has taken to make sure that Argyll and Bute remains connected at all times. Mr Eagle went through a range of different issues. I simply point out that, for example, on the R100 contract, digital broadband is a reserved responsibility of the United Kingdom Government, and rural—[Interruption.]

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The work that has been undertaken on the Rest and Be Thankful, which is the focus of Mr Eagle’s question, is essential to ensuring that we have a long-term solution to an extremely challenging route. Anyone who has driven on the A83 knows how challenging the route is because of its exposed nature. On 15 September, a movement on the hill resulted in 500 tonnes of material coming down and the closure of the A83. The Government has put in place the alternative route of the old military road, which avoids an extensive and lengthy detour, because there are no other options. That is a measure of the approach that the Government has taken to make sure that Argyll and Bute remains connected at all times. Mr Eagle went through a range of different issues. I simply point out that, for example, on the R100 contract, digital broadband is a reserved responsibility of the United Kingdom Government, and rural—[Interruption.]

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.49

Members.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

Members.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.50

Rural Scotland is connected only because of the investment of the Scottish Government. In relation to the A9, we have completed the stretches between Luncarty and the Pass of Birnam and between Kincraig and Dalraddy, we have concluded the Crubenmore stage, and we have just concluded the tendering process and shall start work on site for the Moy to Tomatin section. All those developments are under way. Why do the Conservatives moan about everything?

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

Rural Scotland is connected only because of the investment of the Scottish Government. In relation to the A9, we have completed the stretches between Luncarty and the Pass of Birnam and between Kincraig and Dalraddy, we have concluded the Crubenmore stage, and we have just concluded the tendering process and shall start work on site for the Moy to Tomatin section. All those developments are under way. Why do the Conservatives moan about everything?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.51

I think that the Tories are missing the point here. The A83 Rest and Be Thankful is a vital route in Argyll and Bute, and road users want to know how the permanent solution that is being devised by the Scottish Government will benefit them. Will the First Minister set out some detail—[Interruption.]

Evelyn Tweed (Stirling) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26015

First Minister’s Question Time

I think that the Tories are missing the point here. The A83 Rest and Be Thankful is a vital route in Argyll and Bute, and road users want to know how the permanent solution that is being devised by the Scottish Government will benefit them. Will the First Minister set out some detail—[Interruption.]

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.52

Let us hear Ms Tweed.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

Let us hear Ms Tweed.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.53

Will the First Minister set out some detail in that regard?

Evelyn Tweed

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26015

First Minister’s Question Time

Will the First Minister set out some detail in that regard?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.54

The Scottish Government is taking forward the improvement work on the A83, and a task force is supervising that work. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport leads the task force, which will meet this afternoon as part of the routine work that is under way to ensure that the permanent solution improves the resilience and operational safety of the route, which is designed to improve access to employment, education and healthcare services and to protect the interests of the people of Argyll and Bute. That matters very significantly to the Government.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The Scottish Government is taking forward the improvement work on the A83, and a task force is supervising that work. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport leads the task force, which will meet this afternoon as part of the routine work that is under way to ensure that the permanent solution improves the resilience and operational safety of the route, which is designed to improve access to employment, education and healthcare services and to protect the interests of the people of Argyll and Bute. That matters very significantly to the Government.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.56

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to the decision by Loch Lomond and the Trossachs national park regarding the Flamingo Land Lomond Banks planning application. (S6F-03376)

6. Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25509

First Minister’s Question Time

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to the decision by Loch Lomond and the Trossachs national park regarding the Flamingo Land Lomond Banks planning application. (S6F-03376)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.57

I am aware of the decision made by the Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National Park Authority board to refuse planning permission for a development at West Riverside and Woodbank house in Balloch. Given that the applicants have a right of appeal and that such an appeal could come before Scottish ministers in the future, it would not be appropriate for me to make any further comments.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I am aware of the decision made by the Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National Park Authority board to refuse planning permission for a development at West Riverside and Woodbank house in Balloch. Given that the applicants have a right of appeal and that such an appeal could come before Scottish ministers in the future, it would not be appropriate for me to make any further comments.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.58

I appreciate the First Minister’s answer and the constraints. I had to lodge that question a few hours before the decision was made. I am delighted by the unanimous rejection by the park board after a decade of attempts by Flamingo Land to force this daft mega resort on Balloch. More than 154,000 people joined our campaign and objected. They were joined by the Woodland Trust, Ramblers Scotland, the National Trust for Scotland and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency. However, at its core, this was a community campaign. My constituents in Balloch and the Haldane want to turn the page. I have written to the First Minister to request that the Scottish Government terminate Flamingo Land’s exclusive contract with the Government agency that owns most of the site. The agreement was renewed after its first failed application in 2019. It is the key reason why the threat has hung over the people of Balloch for a decade, and it is what has prevented more appropriate development proposals from coming forward. Will the Scottish Government end rather than renew the agreement? Will it review the use of exclusivity agreements and the impact that they have on communities such as Balloch?

Ross Greer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25509

First Minister’s Question Time

I appreciate the First Minister’s answer and the constraints. I had to lodge that question a few hours before the decision was made. I am delighted by the unanimous rejection by the park board after a decade of attempts by Flamingo Land to force this daft mega resort on Balloch. More than 154,000 people joined our campaign and objected. They were joined by the Woodland Trust, Ramblers Scotland, the National Trust for Scotland and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency. However, at its core, this was a community campaign. My constituents in Balloch and the Haldane want to turn the page. I have written to the First Minister to request that the Scottish Government terminate Flamingo Land’s exclusive contract with the Government agency that owns most of the site. The agreement was renewed after its first failed application in 2019. It is the key reason why the threat has hung over the people of Balloch for a decade, and it is what has prevented more appropriate development proposals from coming forward. Will the Scottish Government end rather than renew the agreement? Will it review the use of exclusivity agreements and the impact that they have on communities such as Balloch?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.59

There are two elements to the question that Mr Greer has asked, and I understand entirely why he is raising the issue with me. The first element relates specifically to the Flamingo Land development. I had better not say anything specific about that, because a potential appeal could be made. The second element is about the provision of exclusivity agreements in principle. There will, of course, be mixed opinions about that, but part of the purpose of exclusivity arrangements is to accelerate planning developments that, in other circumstances, many of us might approve of. For example, renewable energy developments might be speeded up as a consequence of exclusivity arrangements that can be arrived at. We must take a broad view of such questions, because developments and opportunities that would be beneficial to the national interest might be able to be supported by moves of that type. However, I hear Mr Greer, and the important points that he has made are on the record.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

There are two elements to the question that Mr Greer has asked, and I understand entirely why he is raising the issue with me. The first element relates specifically to the Flamingo Land development. I had better not say anything specific about that, because a potential appeal could be made. The second element is about the provision of exclusivity agreements in principle. There will, of course, be mixed opinions about that, but part of the purpose of exclusivity arrangements is to accelerate planning developments that, in other circumstances, many of us might approve of. For example, renewable energy developments might be speeded up as a consequence of exclusivity arrangements that can be arrived at. We must take a broad view of such questions, because developments and opportunities that would be beneficial to the national interest might be able to be supported by moves of that type. However, I hear Mr Greer, and the important points that he has made are on the record.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.60

I was pleased with the decision to reject Flamingo Land’s planning application. From day 1, I was against the plans, as it was clear to me that too many local residents were concerned about the impact that Flamingo Land would have on them. Does the First Minister acknowledge the importance of considering the views and concerns of local residents when planning decisions are made?

Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25998

First Minister’s Question Time

I was pleased with the decision to reject Flamingo Land’s planning application. From day 1, I was against the plans, as it was clear to me that too many local residents were concerned about the impact that Flamingo Land would have on them. Does the First Minister acknowledge the importance of considering the views and concerns of local residents when planning decisions are made?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.61

That should be an essential part of any consideration in the planning process. It is in the interests of all parties, including communities and developers, to have good community engagement. In my experience, it is more likely that developments will be enabled if community concerns and interests have been properly taken into account when thinking about development propositions that are brought forward.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

That should be an essential part of any consideration in the planning process. It is in the interests of all parties, including communities and developers, to have good community engagement. In my experience, it is more likely that developments will be enabled if community concerns and interests have been properly taken into account when thinking about development propositions that are brought forward.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.62

The First Minister will be aware that there is a clause in the exclusivity agreement that allows Flamingo Land a further year to obtain planning permission. That can happen through either an appeal or a fresh application, neither of which can be achieved in that timeframe. Will the First Minister therefore end the exclusivity agreement now or, at the very least, not extend it?

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13949

First Minister’s Question Time

The First Minister will be aware that there is a clause in the exclusivity agreement that allows Flamingo Land a further year to obtain planning permission. That can happen through either an appeal or a fresh application, neither of which can be achieved in that timeframe. Will the First Minister therefore end the exclusivity agreement now or, at the very least, not extend it?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.63

Jackie Baillie, whose interest in the matter I understand, encourages me to get into specific issues that could be material to any appeal that comes to ministers. She has long enough experience in the Parliament to know that I have to be very careful not to prejudice the position of Scottish ministers. I hear what she has said, and the Government will consider all relevant issues when any matters that might come to ministers have to be addressed.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

Jackie Baillie, whose interest in the matter I understand, encourages me to get into specific issues that could be material to any appeal that comes to ministers. She has long enough experience in the Parliament to know that I have to be very careful not to prejudice the position of Scottish ministers. I hear what she has said, and the Government will consider all relevant issues when any matters that might come to ministers have to be addressed.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.64

We move to constituency and general supplementary questions.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

First Minister’s Question Time

We move to constituency and general supplementary questions.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.66

I declare an interest as the golden eagle champion—not many members know that. The South of Scotland Golden Eagle Project in my constituency has increased the number of golden eagles in the south of Scotland from 10 to nearly 50 over six years, with relatively small calls on public money. It has now advised me that it is at serious risk of closure at the end of the year unless it can access new sources of funding. Will the First Minister look into the matter to ensure that that valuable project, which has increased the population of an iconic bird, can continue?

Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/14000

First Minister’s Question Time

I declare an interest as the golden eagle champion—not many members know that. The South of Scotland Golden Eagle Project in my constituency has increased the number of golden eagles in the south of Scotland from 10 to nearly 50 over six years, with relatively small calls on public money. It has now advised me that it is at serious risk of closure at the end of the year unless it can access new sources of funding. Will the First Minister look into the matter to ensure that that valuable project, which has increased the population of an iconic bird, can continue?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.67

The South of Scotland Golden Eagle Project is very successful. It began in 2018, when there were only four to eight golden eagles across Dumfries and Galloway, and there are now more golden eagles in the south of Scotland than have been recorded at any time in the past 200 years. I hear the issue that Christine Grahame has raised, and I will ask the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands to discuss with her what steps can be taken to secure the project’s future.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The South of Scotland Golden Eagle Project is very successful. It began in 2018, when there were only four to eight golden eagles across Dumfries and Galloway, and there are now more golden eagles in the south of Scotland than have been recorded at any time in the past 200 years. I hear the issue that Christine Grahame has raised, and I will ask the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands to discuss with her what steps can be taken to secure the project’s future.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.69

On Tuesday, NHS Lothian announced that urgent major repair works will have to be undertaken at the Princess Alexandra eye pavilion. All patient appointments that are scheduled to take place from 28 October will be moved, and it is expected to be six months before the hospital can reopen. In 2014, the current eye pavilion was declared not fit for purpose. There is now real anger about the latest situation, which demonstrates, yet again, the need for a new eye hospital. Ministers need to take responsibility. They have cancelled the new hospital on two occasions. Will the First Minister personally meet campaigners and cross-party MSPs to get the replacement hospital back on track?

Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)

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First Minister’s Question Time

On Tuesday, NHS Lothian announced that urgent major repair works will have to be undertaken at the Princess Alexandra eye pavilion. All patient appointments that are scheduled to take place from 28 October will be moved, and it is expected to be six months before the hospital can reopen. In 2014, the current eye pavilion was declared not fit for purpose. There is now real anger about the latest situation, which demonstrates, yet again, the need for a new eye hospital. Ministers need to take responsibility. They have cancelled the new hospital on two occasions. Will the First Minister personally meet campaigners and cross-party MSPs to get the replacement hospital back on track?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.70

I appreciate the anxiety that will be felt because of the issues relating to the eye pavilion in Edinburgh. As we would expect it to, the health board is working to ensure that there is no diminution of the service and support that are available to patients, so that they can have their needs met. Obviously, the Government is wrestling with capital funding pressures. Mr Briggs will be familiar with the statements that the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government has made about the reduction in our capital budget. That, combined with the significant increase in construction costs that has arisen because of sky-high inflation, has had a consequential effect on our ability to afford projects. Those are the realities that we are wrestling with. I assure Mr Briggs that the Government is doing everything that we can to deliver that capital programme, but we cannot deliver it as timeously as we would like to because of the effect of inflation and the cuts to our capital budget. I assure him that the Government is focused on finding solutions to those challenging issues.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I appreciate the anxiety that will be felt because of the issues relating to the eye pavilion in Edinburgh. As we would expect it to, the health board is working to ensure that there is no diminution of the service and support that are available to patients, so that they can have their needs met. Obviously, the Government is wrestling with capital funding pressures. Mr Briggs will be familiar with the statements that the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government has made about the reduction in our capital budget. That, combined with the significant increase in construction costs that has arisen because of sky-high inflation, has had a consequential effect on our ability to afford projects. Those are the realities that we are wrestling with. I assure Mr Briggs that the Government is doing everything that we can to deliver that capital programme, but we cannot deliver it as timeously as we would like to because of the effect of inflation and the cuts to our capital budget. I assure him that the Government is focused on finding solutions to those challenging issues.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.72

As the First Minister knows, I played a part in helping to establish the Aberdeen hydrogen project, so I am very pleased this week to hear of £7 million of Scottish Government funding to kick-start green hydrogen projects in Scotland. What more can we do to support the industry and make it thrive? Would it not be better if we had all the economic levers of power to drive forward our net zero agenda?

Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)

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First Minister’s Question Time

As the First Minister knows, I played a part in helping to establish the Aberdeen hydrogen project, so I am very pleased this week to hear of £7 million of Scottish Government funding to kick-start green hydrogen projects in Scotland. What more can we do to support the industry and make it thrive? Would it not be better if we had all the economic levers of power to drive forward our net zero agenda?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.73

I agree with Kevin Stewart, and I very much welcome the initiative that he took to encourage the development of the green hydrogen project in the north-east of Scotland, which is a significant economic opportunity. I want to ensure that Scotland is able to realise the benefits of our enormous energy generation potential. The Government’s focus on the development of renewable energy—offshore wind resources in particular—will help develop the hydrogen sector, which will contribute to the strengthening of Scotland’s economic wellbeing. I expect to discuss many of those issues at the Scottish energy advisory board meeting that I will co-chair tomorrow to take forward many of those developments.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I agree with Kevin Stewart, and I very much welcome the initiative that he took to encourage the development of the green hydrogen project in the north-east of Scotland, which is a significant economic opportunity. I want to ensure that Scotland is able to realise the benefits of our enormous energy generation potential. The Government’s focus on the development of renewable energy—offshore wind resources in particular—will help develop the hydrogen sector, which will contribute to the strengthening of Scotland’s economic wellbeing. I expect to discuss many of those issues at the Scottish energy advisory board meeting that I will co-chair tomorrow to take forward many of those developments.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.75

The First Minister will be aware that the Scottish Legal Aid Board is removing funding for legal advisers from citizens advice bureaux across Scotland. In island communities such as the Western Isles, the removal of those posts will have a disproportional impact, as there are no alternative free sources of legal advice with expertise on local issues, such as crofting. That service will be lost next month. Even at the 11th hour, can the First Minister intervene and save those vital jobs and services?

Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)

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First Minister’s Question Time

The First Minister will be aware that the Scottish Legal Aid Board is removing funding for legal advisers from citizens advice bureaux across Scotland. In island communities such as the Western Isles, the removal of those posts will have a disproportional impact, as there are no alternative free sources of legal advice with expertise on local issues, such as crofting. That service will be lost next month. Even at the 11th hour, can the First Minister intervene and save those vital jobs and services?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.76

I will look closely at the issue that Rhoda Grant has put to me. Indeed, we touched on it at yesterday’s Conveners Group meeting, at which I was questioned by parliamentary committee conveners. The question was put to me by—I think—my colleague Karen Adam, convener of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, who raised the issue of the distinctive needs of island communities in accessing services when no other tangible alternative is available. Rhoda Grant’s question about those services comes directly into that territory. I undertook to the Conveners Group yesterday to reflect on those questions about the availability of services. I will take away the point that Rhoda Grant has raised with me and I will write to her in due course.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I will look closely at the issue that Rhoda Grant has put to me. Indeed, we touched on it at yesterday’s Conveners Group meeting, at which I was questioned by parliamentary committee conveners. The question was put to me by—I think—my colleague Karen Adam, convener of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, who raised the issue of the distinctive needs of island communities in accessing services when no other tangible alternative is available. Rhoda Grant’s question about those services comes directly into that territory. I undertook to the Conveners Group yesterday to reflect on those questions about the availability of services. I will take away the point that Rhoda Grant has raised with me and I will write to her in due course.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.78

A report by economists at Aston University has warned that the United Kingdom’s Brexit deal has caused a “sharp decline” in trade between the UK and the European Union, and it is likely to get worse. Does the First Minister share my concerns that the UK Labour Government is intent on ignoring that evidence of the harm that Brexit is doing to our economy? Does he agree that the best way of improving our economic outlook would be for us to rejoin the EU as an independent nation?

George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)

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First Minister’s Question Time

A report by economists at Aston University has warned that the United Kingdom’s Brexit deal has caused a “sharp decline” in trade between the UK and the European Union, and it is likely to get worse. Does the First Minister share my concerns that the UK Labour Government is intent on ignoring that evidence of the harm that Brexit is doing to our economy? Does he agree that the best way of improving our economic outlook would be for us to rejoin the EU as an independent nation?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.79

I am absolutely stunned that the UK political consensus now seems to be an acceptance that we just have to resign ourselves to the damage of Brexit. I saw a very impactful and significant interview yesterday with former Prime Minister Sir John Major, in which he highlighted the deep and corrosive damage that Brexit has done to the economy of the United Kingdom. It has had that effect on the Scottish economy, too, where it is more challenging for our businesses to trade with Europe and for us to benefit from the positive economic effects of free movement of the population. I agree with Mr Adam that the issue has to be addressed, because the United Kingdom has inflicted significant economic damage on Scotland, which voted to stay in the European Union. The only way of reversing that damage is through Scotland becoming an independent member of the European Union.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I am absolutely stunned that the UK political consensus now seems to be an acceptance that we just have to resign ourselves to the damage of Brexit. I saw a very impactful and significant interview yesterday with former Prime Minister Sir John Major, in which he highlighted the deep and corrosive damage that Brexit has done to the economy of the United Kingdom. It has had that effect on the Scottish economy, too, where it is more challenging for our businesses to trade with Europe and for us to benefit from the positive economic effects of free movement of the population. I agree with Mr Adam that the issue has to be addressed, because the United Kingdom has inflicted significant economic damage on Scotland, which voted to stay in the European Union. The only way of reversing that damage is through Scotland becoming an independent member of the European Union.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.81

This morning, the Scottish National Party Government has caved in to pressure from the Scottish Conservatives to abandon its misguided ban on wood-burning stoves, which would have stopped the installation of wood-burning stoves in new homes. Hundreds of constituents who rely on those heating systems have shared with me the harmful impact of such a ban, particularly on those who live in rural communities and those facing extreme winter conditions. Will the First Minister now commit to a permanent ban of the policy that he has introduced? Will he also consider looking at the businesses that have been affected and offer them compensation for their job losses?

Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)

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First Minister’s Question Time

This morning, the Scottish National Party Government has caved in to pressure from the Scottish Conservatives to abandon its misguided ban on wood-burning stoves, which would have stopped the installation of wood-burning stoves in new homes. Hundreds of constituents who rely on those heating systems have shared with me the harmful impact of such a ban, particularly on those who live in rural communities and those facing extreme winter conditions. Will the First Minister now commit to a permanent ban of the policy that he has introduced? Will he also consider looking at the businesses that have been affected and offer them compensation for their job losses?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.82

The Government has set out its position. If Rachael Hamilton’s response is a supposed welcome to the Government’s agreeing with her, I would hate to hear what her reaction would be if we said that we disagreed with her.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

The Government has set out its position. If Rachael Hamilton’s response is a supposed welcome to the Government’s agreeing with her, I would hate to hear what her reaction would be if we said that we disagreed with her.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.84

Yesterday, I met the chief executive of the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland to discuss the condition of NHS Tayside’s Strathmartine learning disability unit. In the hour before our meeting, an overdue inspection report on the unit was released. The Dickensian conditions that it describes include rats falling from ceilings, mould on walls, rainwater pouring through cracks, insect infestations and the stench of urine throughout. As far back as 2017, a Mental Welfare Commission report called for a decision “as soon as possible”. More reports saying the same followed in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2023 and 2024. David Strang’s devastating reviews of mental welfare in Tayside have sat on Government shelves for four years. Why does nothing ever, ever change?

Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)

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First Minister’s Question Time

Yesterday, I met the chief executive of the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland to discuss the condition of NHS Tayside’s Strathmartine learning disability unit. In the hour before our meeting, an overdue inspection report on the unit was released. The Dickensian conditions that it describes include rats falling from ceilings, mould on walls, rainwater pouring through cracks, insect infestations and the stench of urine throughout. As far back as 2017, a Mental Welfare Commission report called for a decision “as soon as possible”. More reports saying the same followed in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2023 and 2024. David Strang’s devastating reviews of mental welfare in Tayside have sat on Government shelves for four years. Why does nothing ever, ever change?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.85

I am very familiar with the issue, because I have constituents who are supported by the Strathmartine centre, and, as Mr Marra well knows, I have engaged personally and directly on the question in my constituency capacity. Mr Marra’s characterisation of the response to the report by David Strang is not an appropriate one. Update reports have been given to local members of Parliament about the steps that are being taken to improve mental health services in the Tayside area as a consequence of Mr Strang’s report. As I set out in my response to Miles Briggs on the issue of capital investment in Edinburgh, there are capital challenges in the health service. There are existing plans to relocate to a single site for learning disability services at Moray royal hospital in Perth, in my constituency, and I look to NHS Tayside to advance those proposals as sustainably as it can in the current financial context. It is not fair for Mr Marra to characterise the report and the response in the fashion that he has.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I am very familiar with the issue, because I have constituents who are supported by the Strathmartine centre, and, as Mr Marra well knows, I have engaged personally and directly on the question in my constituency capacity. Mr Marra’s characterisation of the response to the report by David Strang is not an appropriate one. Update reports have been given to local members of Parliament about the steps that are being taken to improve mental health services in the Tayside area as a consequence of Mr Strang’s report. As I set out in my response to Miles Briggs on the issue of capital investment in Edinburgh, there are capital challenges in the health service. There are existing plans to relocate to a single site for learning disability services at Moray royal hospital in Perth, in my constituency, and I look to NHS Tayside to advance those proposals as sustainably as it can in the current financial context. It is not fair for Mr Marra to characterise the report and the response in the fashion that he has.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.87

Despite Anas Sarwar’s promise to voters that there would be “no austerity under Labour”, Labour MPs have voted to scrap the universal winter fuel payment, while the energy price cap is set to rise by 10 per cent. That is causing fear and worry for pensioners in my Rutherglen constituency. Does the First Minister share my concern that Labour MPs have hammered the Scottish Government’s spending ability by putting party before pensioners? Does he agree that independence is the solution to avoiding yet another decade of Westminster austerity?

Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP)

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First Minister’s Question Time

Despite Anas Sarwar’s promise to voters that there would be “no austerity under Labour”, Labour MPs have voted to scrap the universal winter fuel payment, while the energy price cap is set to rise by 10 per cent. That is causing fear and worry for pensioners in my Rutherglen constituency. Does the First Minister share my concern that Labour MPs have hammered the Scottish Government’s spending ability by putting party before pensioners? Does he agree that independence is the solution to avoiding yet another decade of Westminster austerity?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.88

I am deeply concerned by the impact of the decision by the United Kingdom Government to abruptly end the universal provision of winter fuel payments to the pensioner population in the UK, which will result in 900,000 pensioners in Scotland losing access to their winter fuel payment. I would dearly love to be able to maintain the payment as a universal provision—[Interruption.] I am being shouted at by Conservative members saying that I can. Let me go back to where I left off with Douglas Ross. In the past couple of weeks, Conservative members have asked the Government to spend more money on colleges, more money on free school meals, more money on peak fares and more money on winter fuel payments than we will have—[Interruption.]

The First Minister (John Swinney)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

I am deeply concerned by the impact of the decision by the United Kingdom Government to abruptly end the universal provision of winter fuel payments to the pensioner population in the UK, which will result in 900,000 pensioners in Scotland losing access to their winter fuel payment. I would dearly love to be able to maintain the payment as a universal provision—[Interruption.] I am being shouted at by Conservative members saying that I can. Let me go back to where I left off with Douglas Ross. In the past couple of weeks, Conservative members have asked the Government to spend more money on colleges, more money on free school meals, more money on peak fares and more money on winter fuel payments than we will have—[Interruption.]

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.89

Let us hear the First Minister.

The Presiding Officer

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First Minister’s Question Time

Let us hear the First Minister.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.90

Our budget will be cut by £160 million as a consequence of changes by the Labour Government. The Conservatives and the Labour Party want us to reduce taxation, which will further reduce the money that is available. Clare Haughey’s question reminded me of the commitment that Anas Sarwar gave to the people of Scotland—he gave it directly to me—that there would be “no austerity under Labour”. We are now getting austerity under Labour, and Labour should be ashamed of itself.

The First Minister

uk.org.publicwhip/person/10581

First Minister’s Question Time

Our budget will be cut by £160 million as a consequence of changes by the Labour Government. The Conservatives and the Labour Party want us to reduce taxation, which will further reduce the money that is available. Clare Haughey’s question reminded me of the commitment that Anas Sarwar gave to the people of Scotland—he gave it directly to me—that there would be “no austerity under Labour”. We are now getting austerity under Labour, and Labour should be ashamed of itself.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.91

That concludes First Minister’s question time. There will be a short suspension to allow those leaving the chamber and the public gallery to do so.

The Presiding Officer

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First Minister’s Question Time

That concludes First Minister’s question time. There will be a short suspension to allow those leaving the chamber and the public gallery to do so.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.92

Meeting suspended.

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting suspended.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.93

On resuming—

First Minister’s Question Time

On resuming—

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.1

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-14053, in the name of Sharon Dowey, on addressing retail crime and antisocial behaviour. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. I encourage members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons. Motion debated, That the Parliament notes the view that addressing retail crime and antisocial behaviour should be a priority for both the Scottish and UK governments; acknowledges and deplores the reported significant increase in abuse and violence towards shop workers and rise in shoplifting, which it understands is often the main factor behind abuse and threats, with official data reportedly showing a 21% annual increase in shoplifting incidents; understands that the British Retail Consortium’s latest crime survey reveals that there are 1,300 incidents of violence or abuse against retail workers daily, double the number prior to the COVID-19 pandemic; expresses concern over the reported £1.8 billion cost of retail theft in the last reporting year and the £1.2 billion spent by shops on crime prevention measures such as CCTV and body-worn cameras; highlights what it sees as the importance of the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021 in improving visibility and legal protection for retail workers in Scotland, including in the South Scotland region; notes the Scottish Retail Consortium’s call for a greater prioritisation of retail crime by government and law enforcement; further notes the calls on the Scottish Government to provide the police and courts the necessary direction and resources to prosecute offenders; notes the calls for better reporting of incidents by retailers to ensure a fuller picture of the problem, and further notes what it sees as the need for public communication campaigns to explain any new mandated rules on the selling of regulated products in store, which can often be a common trigger for flashpoints, and to make clear that poor customer behaviour will not be tolerated.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/14046

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-14053, in the name of Sharon Dowey, on addressing retail crime and antisocial behaviour. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. I encourage members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons. Motion debated, That the Parliament notes the view that addressing retail crime and antisocial behaviour should be a priority for both the Scottish and UK governments; acknowledges and deplores the reported significant increase in abuse and violence towards shop workers and rise in shoplifting, which it understands is often the main factor behind abuse and threats, with official data reportedly showing a 21% annual increase in shoplifting incidents; understands that the British Retail Consortium’s latest crime survey reveals that there are 1,300 incidents of violence or abuse against retail workers daily, double the number prior to the COVID-19 pandemic; expresses concern over the reported £1.8 billion cost of retail theft in the last reporting year and the £1.2 billion spent by shops on crime prevention measures such as CCTV and body-worn cameras; highlights what it sees as the importance of the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021 in improving visibility and legal protection for retail workers in Scotland, including in the South Scotland region; notes the Scottish Retail Consortium’s call for a greater prioritisation of retail crime by government and law enforcement; further notes the calls on the Scottish Government to provide the police and courts the necessary direction and resources to prosecute offenders; notes the calls for better reporting of incidents by retailers to ensure a fuller picture of the problem, and further notes what it sees as the need for public communication campaigns to explain any new mandated rules on the selling of regulated products in store, which can often be a common trigger for flashpoints, and to make clear that poor customer behaviour will not be tolerated.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.2

I am pleased to have the opportunity to raise this pressing issue in Parliament. Retail crime and antisocial behaviour are growing problems, and they must be urgently tackled as they have a hugely detrimental impact not only on workers but on businesses and communities across Scotland. I am passionate about the issue. Before I became an MSP, I worked in retail for more than 30 years, so I am well aware of the impact on people’s physical and mental health, and of the damage that it causes to businesses and our economy. Abuse and violence were often part of the job then, but were far less common than they are now. Retailers paint a stark picture of the magnitude of the issues that they face and of the difficulties in tackling the problem without more support from the police or Government. This morning, I was pleased to meet more than a dozen retailers, who told me about the scale of the challenges that they face and the level of antisocial behaviour that shop workers have to put up with, from littering, throwing food and verbal abuse to assault, knife threats and worse. A recent report by the Scottish Grocers Federation highlights just how bad the situation has become. It reveals an incident in which staff had to confront a man who was wielding a dirty needle. Other incidents include a man throwing a bike and threatening to stab staff; a man hurling a glass bottle; a man pulling a knife on staff when he was asked to return bottles of vodka; and another man trying to bite a worker. In another incident, a group tried to run over a security team in a car when they were challenged in the car park. Those are all horrifying stories. Nobody should have to face such danger when they go to work. The report also includes a survey of retailers that demonstrates that shoplifting has become a daily occurrence and that violence against staff happens every week. The recent recorded crime in Scotland statistics reveal just how much the problem has been allowed to escalate. When I lodged my motion, the increase in shoplifting was 21 per cent, but the most recent figures show a rise of 34 per cent. In the area that I represent, there was a 40 per cent rise in East Ayrshire and a 22 per cent rise in South Ayrshire—and worryingly, as I heard this morning, those figures only cover reported incidents. Many shops have given up reporting incidents to overstretched and underresourced police, so these criminal acts are allowed to happen without justice being delivered. Indeed, the report highlights that 76 per cent of SGF members are “unlikely or very unlikely to report shoplifting incidents to the police.” Behind all those statistics are real people who are simply trying to go about their work or run their businesses. They just want to earn a living, but they are being denied that opportunity, and the impact spreads across the communities that they serve and all of the people who rely on small shops. On the recent recorded crime figures, David Lonsdale, director of the Scottish Retail Consortium, said: “Shoplifting isn’t a victimless crime. Shoplifting is the main factor behind abuse and threats towards shop workers and we know from member feedback that thieves are becoming bolder and more aggressive.” He added: “The financial costs too are enormous and are ultimately borne by shoppers themselves; in some cases through higher prices on shop shelves. With a swathe of new mandated rules in the pipeline or under consideration, and which may lead to more flashpoints in store, the SRC wants tackling crime against retailers to be made a greater priority by the authorities, including in the Scottish government’s Strategic Police Priorities, to ensure our shops are made safer.”

Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25992

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I am pleased to have the opportunity to raise this pressing issue in Parliament. Retail crime and antisocial behaviour are growing problems, and they must be urgently tackled as they have a hugely detrimental impact not only on workers but on businesses and communities across Scotland. I am passionate about the issue. Before I became an MSP, I worked in retail for more than 30 years, so I am well aware of the impact on people’s physical and mental health, and of the damage that it causes to businesses and our economy. Abuse and violence were often part of the job then, but were far less common than they are now. Retailers paint a stark picture of the magnitude of the issues that they face and of the difficulties in tackling the problem without more support from the police or Government. This morning, I was pleased to meet more than a dozen retailers, who told me about the scale of the challenges that they face and the level of antisocial behaviour that shop workers have to put up with, from littering, throwing food and verbal abuse to assault, knife threats and worse. A recent report by the Scottish Grocers Federation highlights just how bad the situation has become. It reveals an incident in which staff had to confront a man who was wielding a dirty needle. Other incidents include a man throwing a bike and threatening to stab staff; a man hurling a glass bottle; a man pulling a knife on staff when he was asked to return bottles of vodka; and another man trying to bite a worker. In another incident, a group tried to run over a security team in a car when they were challenged in the car park. Those are all horrifying stories. Nobody should have to face such danger when they go to work. The report also includes a survey of retailers that demonstrates that shoplifting has become a daily occurrence and that violence against staff happens every week. The recent recorded crime in Scotland statistics reveal just how much the problem has been allowed to escalate. When I lodged my motion, the increase in shoplifting was 21 per cent, but the most recent figures show a rise of 34 per cent. In the area that I represent, there was a 40 per cent rise in East Ayrshire and a 22 per cent rise in South Ayrshire—and worryingly, as I heard this morning, those figures only cover reported incidents. Many shops have given up reporting incidents to overstretched and underresourced police, so these criminal acts are allowed to happen without justice being delivered. Indeed, the report highlights that 76 per cent of SGF members are “unlikely or very unlikely to report shoplifting incidents to the police.” Behind all those statistics are real people who are simply trying to go about their work or run their businesses. They just want to earn a living, but they are being denied that opportunity, and the impact spreads across the communities that they serve and all of the people who rely on small shops. On the recent recorded crime figures, David Lonsdale, director of the Scottish Retail Consortium, said: “Shoplifting isn’t a victimless crime. Shoplifting is the main factor behind abuse and threats towards shop workers and we know from member feedback that thieves are becoming bolder and more aggressive.” He added: “The financial costs too are enormous and are ultimately borne by shoppers themselves; in some cases through higher prices on shop shelves. With a swathe of new mandated rules in the pipeline or under consideration, and which may lead to more flashpoints in store, the SRC wants tackling crime against retailers to be made a greater priority by the authorities, including in the Scottish government’s Strategic Police Priorities, to ensure our shops are made safer.”

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.3

The member lists the problems that we face. I think that we are all in agreement on those. I do not know whether she was at the cross-party group on independent convenience stores on Tuesday, when a lot of this was discussed, but does she have any practical solutions other than those that involve more money being spent or having higher taxes? How does she think that, in practice, we can deal with the issue?

John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25101

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

The member lists the problems that we face. I think that we are all in agreement on those. I do not know whether she was at the cross-party group on independent convenience stores on Tuesday, when a lot of this was discussed, but does she have any practical solutions other than those that involve more money being spent or having higher taxes? How does she think that, in practice, we can deal with the issue?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.4

I am covering that in my speech, and there is more to come. We need to get more police on our streets and do more to retain the police officers that we already have. There are suggestions in my speech, if the member wants to listen. The Scottish Retail Consortium previously pointed out that “Thieves are becoming more brazen and aggressive”, and it said: “This isn’t just affecting convenience stores but chemists, garden centres, fashion stores, and retailers more widely. The impact is being felt across all retail destinations.” That is all happening despite stores taking real action to try to prevent it. They have spent fortunes on closed-circuit television, body-worn cameras and other attempts to protect workers. Some stores supply their security guards with stab-proof vests. However, those things are not making much of a difference, because the problem is so widespread. The consequences for criminals are almost non-existent. Not only do offenders get away with it, but they are almost encouraged to keep doing it because there are no repercussions. This Government must face the reality that allowing police officer numbers to fall to the lowest level in more than a decade has real-world consequences. It is sending a message to criminals that they can get away with crimes or face very little punishment—or, as I heard this morning, no punishment. What needs to happen to change that and to give retail workers the protection that they deserve? First, Police Scotland needs more resources. The aim should be to increase front-line officer numbers and retain those officers that we already have. Without more officers responding quickly to these crimes, thieves will never be caught and shops will be—as they are—discouraged from even reporting abusive or violent behaviour. As I heard at this morning’s meeting, 70 per cent of the crimes are caused by 10 per cent of the offenders, so there needs to be more investigation of the crimes and we must ensure that there are consequences for those who commit them. I also stress that we need to keep our officers safe by issuing them with body-worn cameras. We have already heard that that would be a game changer. Anything that we can do to improve officers’ safety should be implemented as soon as possible. That could also help retain the officers that we already have. Secondly, there must be better means of reporting incidents by retailers so that problem areas can be quickly identified and targeted, and crimes prevented. As it stands, retailers do not believe that that is happening. Thirdly, more consideration needs to be given to the pressures that the Government is imposing on workers and businesses. Rules on the selling of products are often a flashpoint for abuse or violence, and the Government is looking to expand the use of those rules in the future. For instance, the challenges that the SRC has cited include September’s rise in the minimum unit price for alcohol, upcoming restrictions on the sale of vapes and tobacco, proposed new rules on the location in-store of alcohol products and a disposable cup levy. If those proposals are to go ahead, they should be communicated clearly to the public at large. The rules must be explained, because I heard this morning that retailers are already concerned about the imminent increase in MUP and the lack of public awareness through Scottish Government communication. Clear signals must be sent that abusive or violent customer behaviour is unacceptable and will face punishment. So far, the Scottish Government has not acted decisively on retail crime. The issues that were raised this morning included a lack of police officers, police response times, making it easier to log incidents and on-going issues with bus passes. The Government has let down workers and businesses through inaction. I hope that the debate will shed more light on the challenges that front-line staff face, and that it will kick-start not only a conversation but action on how we can solve the issues, so that nobody faces threats in their workplace every day.

Sharon Dowey

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25992

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I am covering that in my speech, and there is more to come. We need to get more police on our streets and do more to retain the police officers that we already have. There are suggestions in my speech, if the member wants to listen. The Scottish Retail Consortium previously pointed out that “Thieves are becoming more brazen and aggressive”, and it said: “This isn’t just affecting convenience stores but chemists, garden centres, fashion stores, and retailers more widely. The impact is being felt across all retail destinations.” That is all happening despite stores taking real action to try to prevent it. They have spent fortunes on closed-circuit television, body-worn cameras and other attempts to protect workers. Some stores supply their security guards with stab-proof vests. However, those things are not making much of a difference, because the problem is so widespread. The consequences for criminals are almost non-existent. Not only do offenders get away with it, but they are almost encouraged to keep doing it because there are no repercussions. This Government must face the reality that allowing police officer numbers to fall to the lowest level in more than a decade has real-world consequences. It is sending a message to criminals that they can get away with crimes or face very little punishment—or, as I heard this morning, no punishment. What needs to happen to change that and to give retail workers the protection that they deserve? First, Police Scotland needs more resources. The aim should be to increase front-line officer numbers and retain those officers that we already have. Without more officers responding quickly to these crimes, thieves will never be caught and shops will be—as they are—discouraged from even reporting abusive or violent behaviour. As I heard at this morning’s meeting, 70 per cent of the crimes are caused by 10 per cent of the offenders, so there needs to be more investigation of the crimes and we must ensure that there are consequences for those who commit them. I also stress that we need to keep our officers safe by issuing them with body-worn cameras. We have already heard that that would be a game changer. Anything that we can do to improve officers’ safety should be implemented as soon as possible. That could also help retain the officers that we already have. Secondly, there must be better means of reporting incidents by retailers so that problem areas can be quickly identified and targeted, and crimes prevented. As it stands, retailers do not believe that that is happening. Thirdly, more consideration needs to be given to the pressures that the Government is imposing on workers and businesses. Rules on the selling of products are often a flashpoint for abuse or violence, and the Government is looking to expand the use of those rules in the future. For instance, the challenges that the SRC has cited include September’s rise in the minimum unit price for alcohol, upcoming restrictions on the sale of vapes and tobacco, proposed new rules on the location in-store of alcohol products and a disposable cup levy. If those proposals are to go ahead, they should be communicated clearly to the public at large. The rules must be explained, because I heard this morning that retailers are already concerned about the imminent increase in MUP and the lack of public awareness through Scottish Government communication. Clear signals must be sent that abusive or violent customer behaviour is unacceptable and will face punishment. So far, the Scottish Government has not acted decisively on retail crime. The issues that were raised this morning included a lack of police officers, police response times, making it easier to log incidents and on-going issues with bus passes. The Government has let down workers and businesses through inaction. I hope that the debate will shed more light on the challenges that front-line staff face, and that it will kick-start not only a conversation but action on how we can solve the issues, so that nobody faces threats in their workplace every day.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.5

Because of the 2 o’clock restart for afternoon business, we are a little tight for time, so I would be grateful if members could stick to their speaking time allocations. We move to the open debate.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/14046

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

Because of the 2 o’clock restart for afternoon business, we are a little tight for time, so I would be grateful if members could stick to their speaking time allocations. We move to the open debate.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.6

I commend Sharon Dowey for bringing this important debate to the chamber. Similarly, I commend Bob Doris, who brought a related debate—on tackling the misuse of off-road vehicles—just last week. Those issues affect constituencies across Scotland, particularly in urban areas, and should not be underestimated. The importance of retail to the economy has already been well stated by Sharon Dowey. The issues of retail crime and antisocial behaviour that she highlighted are of concern in my constituency. I have met a number of leading supermarkets, which have briefed me on the problems that they have faced and the issues that their staff have been confronting for some time, as well as the fact that those issues have been on the rise. The same issues affect small businesses. Not too far from the Parliament, I visited businesses in my constituency that have dealt with a number of issues across the summer, in order to help them to secure a more regular police presence to address the matter. We in the Parliament celebrated small businesses just a few days ago, when Audrey Nicoll brought a debate on the 50th anniversary of the Federation of Small Businesses to the chamber. If our big supermarkets and other big retailers are struggling with the issue, I ask members to imagine what it is like for one or two people to deal with. We have to prioritise the issue—and the misuse of off-road vehicles—which is of growing concern. Although perpetrated by a very small group of people, the economic and social impacts are significant, and it is becoming a growing trend. In addition to today’s debate, I encourage the Government to have a debate in Government time as a follow-up on those matters. Although, in many ways, this is an operational issue for Police Scotland—and there is a question of resource and the allocation of resource—does it need to be prioritised more in dense urban areas such as the constituency that I represent and the region that Sharon Dowey represents, to try to get on top of the issue and to suppress it as a trend? Our approach should also involve other smart justice interventions such as youth work to help the minority of young people who engage in such behaviour. They are sometimes utilised by organised crime organisations, because their age makes a difference as to how they are treated in the criminal justice system. According to figures from the Scottish Grocers Federation, 49 per cent of shop theft is committed by repeat offenders who have drug or alcohol addictions. That shows that the issue overlaps with our approach to supporting people out of such addictions. For example, I increasingly believe that we need to introduce a safe consumption room, or perhaps more than one, in Edinburgh. We need to work across Government on this difficult issue and adopt a multifaceted approach to achieving solutions. Another example would be the idea of removing offenders’ use of bus passes where required, which we debated some time ago. We must seriously consider whether passes should be removed from offenders for a period if they continue to engage in criminal and antisocial behaviour. Retail crime and antisocial behaviour are growing concerns. If we do not get on top of them, they will not only continue to cause real problems for shop workers and our communities but undermine the concept of the rule of law. That would be a real problem for all of us.

Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25523

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I commend Sharon Dowey for bringing this important debate to the chamber. Similarly, I commend Bob Doris, who brought a related debate—on tackling the misuse of off-road vehicles—just last week. Those issues affect constituencies across Scotland, particularly in urban areas, and should not be underestimated. The importance of retail to the economy has already been well stated by Sharon Dowey. The issues of retail crime and antisocial behaviour that she highlighted are of concern in my constituency. I have met a number of leading supermarkets, which have briefed me on the problems that they have faced and the issues that their staff have been confronting for some time, as well as the fact that those issues have been on the rise. The same issues affect small businesses. Not too far from the Parliament, I visited businesses in my constituency that have dealt with a number of issues across the summer, in order to help them to secure a more regular police presence to address the matter. We in the Parliament celebrated small businesses just a few days ago, when Audrey Nicoll brought a debate on the 50th anniversary of the Federation of Small Businesses to the chamber. If our big supermarkets and other big retailers are struggling with the issue, I ask members to imagine what it is like for one or two people to deal with. We have to prioritise the issue—and the misuse of off-road vehicles—which is of growing concern. Although perpetrated by a very small group of people, the economic and social impacts are significant, and it is becoming a growing trend. In addition to today’s debate, I encourage the Government to have a debate in Government time as a follow-up on those matters. Although, in many ways, this is an operational issue for Police Scotland—and there is a question of resource and the allocation of resource—does it need to be prioritised more in dense urban areas such as the constituency that I represent and the region that Sharon Dowey represents, to try to get on top of the issue and to suppress it as a trend? Our approach should also involve other smart justice interventions such as youth work to help the minority of young people who engage in such behaviour. They are sometimes utilised by organised crime organisations, because their age makes a difference as to how they are treated in the criminal justice system. According to figures from the Scottish Grocers Federation, 49 per cent of shop theft is committed by repeat offenders who have drug or alcohol addictions. That shows that the issue overlaps with our approach to supporting people out of such addictions. For example, I increasingly believe that we need to introduce a safe consumption room, or perhaps more than one, in Edinburgh. We need to work across Government on this difficult issue and adopt a multifaceted approach to achieving solutions. Another example would be the idea of removing offenders’ use of bus passes where required, which we debated some time ago. We must seriously consider whether passes should be removed from offenders for a period if they continue to engage in criminal and antisocial behaviour. Retail crime and antisocial behaviour are growing concerns. If we do not get on top of them, they will not only continue to cause real problems for shop workers and our communities but undermine the concept of the rule of law. That would be a real problem for all of us.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.7

I thank my friend and colleague Sharon Dowey for bringing this important issue to the Scottish Parliament. I also thank all the organisations that supplied members’ briefings for the debate. I welcome to the public gallery David Lonsdale, who is director of the Scottish Retail Consortium. Retail crime and antisocial behaviour represent a significant issue in Scotland. Figures from Police Scotland show that, between August 2021 and January 2024, 10,295 incidents of shoplifting were reported. In addition, 92.8 per cent of respondents to a survey conducted by the Scottish Grocers Federation reported that violence against staff occurs weekly. The same survey found that more than a third of businesses that responded had experienced incidents of violence involving perpetrators who used weapons. This morning, I attended a round-table meeting on retail crime, which was hosted by my colleague Sharon Dowey and chaired by David Lonsdale. We heard that businesses are having to combat not only shoplifting but violent crimes, which often involve the use of dangerous weapons, such as knives. I will share some of the issues that were highlighted at that meeting. One representative referred to the psychological harm that is caused to retailers, and they gave the example of a retail worker who had suffered a miscarriage. Others expressed concerns about the young age of perpetrators, many of whom are under the age of 16, who engage in violent behaviour that has no consequences. Another representative said that bookshop staff often face violence from perpetrators who are opposed to certain books being sold there, while another highlighted that only one police officer is responsible for investigating retail crime across Scotland. Shoplifting and antisocial behaviour remain issues in my West Scotland region. Recently, I was contacted by two business improvement districts that represent a substantial number of businesses across the area. The Kirkintilloch and Milngavie BIDs informed me that they have experienced an increase in shoplifting, and that shoplifters are becoming more brazen and aggressive, yet the police response is ineffective. A major supermarket in Milngavie has had to close one of its main entrances due to shoplifters walking out, and along the main street, with baskets full of shopping. Another retailer said that it experiences people shoplifting every day. The BIDs also expressed concerns that such activity will become worse as we approach the Christmas period. At the same time, the roll-out of upgraded CCTV across East Dunbartonshire has been talked about for more than two years, but has still not been delivered by East Dunbartonshire Council. Thieves seem to know where all the cameras are, and plenty of blind spots still exist, despite the Milngavie BID’s offer to the council to fund additional cameras to integrate with the main CCTV system that is currently in place. Shopkeepers should not have to go through the stress of having to constantly monitor their merchandise. I recently raised the issue in a letter to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. I asked her to outline what action her Government is taking to prevent retail crime and whether it has formulated a strategy with Police Scotland to clamp down on shoplifters. The SNP’s soft-touch approach to justice and its failure to provide suitable resources are a root cause of shoplifting and antisocial behaviour in retail.

Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25998

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I thank my friend and colleague Sharon Dowey for bringing this important issue to the Scottish Parliament. I also thank all the organisations that supplied members’ briefings for the debate. I welcome to the public gallery David Lonsdale, who is director of the Scottish Retail Consortium. Retail crime and antisocial behaviour represent a significant issue in Scotland. Figures from Police Scotland show that, between August 2021 and January 2024, 10,295 incidents of shoplifting were reported. In addition, 92.8 per cent of respondents to a survey conducted by the Scottish Grocers Federation reported that violence against staff occurs weekly. The same survey found that more than a third of businesses that responded had experienced incidents of violence involving perpetrators who used weapons. This morning, I attended a round-table meeting on retail crime, which was hosted by my colleague Sharon Dowey and chaired by David Lonsdale. We heard that businesses are having to combat not only shoplifting but violent crimes, which often involve the use of dangerous weapons, such as knives. I will share some of the issues that were highlighted at that meeting. One representative referred to the psychological harm that is caused to retailers, and they gave the example of a retail worker who had suffered a miscarriage. Others expressed concerns about the young age of perpetrators, many of whom are under the age of 16, who engage in violent behaviour that has no consequences. Another representative said that bookshop staff often face violence from perpetrators who are opposed to certain books being sold there, while another highlighted that only one police officer is responsible for investigating retail crime across Scotland. Shoplifting and antisocial behaviour remain issues in my West Scotland region. Recently, I was contacted by two business improvement districts that represent a substantial number of businesses across the area. The Kirkintilloch and Milngavie BIDs informed me that they have experienced an increase in shoplifting, and that shoplifters are becoming more brazen and aggressive, yet the police response is ineffective. A major supermarket in Milngavie has had to close one of its main entrances due to shoplifters walking out, and along the main street, with baskets full of shopping. Another retailer said that it experiences people shoplifting every day. The BIDs also expressed concerns that such activity will become worse as we approach the Christmas period. At the same time, the roll-out of upgraded CCTV across East Dunbartonshire has been talked about for more than two years, but has still not been delivered by East Dunbartonshire Council. Thieves seem to know where all the cameras are, and plenty of blind spots still exist, despite the Milngavie BID’s offer to the council to fund additional cameras to integrate with the main CCTV system that is currently in place. Shopkeepers should not have to go through the stress of having to constantly monitor their merchandise. I recently raised the issue in a letter to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. I asked her to outline what action her Government is taking to prevent retail crime and whether it has formulated a strategy with Police Scotland to clamp down on shoplifters. The SNP’s soft-touch approach to justice and its failure to provide suitable resources are a root cause of shoplifting and antisocial behaviour in retail.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.8

Will the member take an intervention?

Ben Macpherson

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25523

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

Will the member take an intervention?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.9

Police numbers have fallen to their lowest in 17 years, and I was disappointed to hear that certain crimes will no longer be investigated due to the Government’s “proportionate response to crime” approach. Similarly, high taxes mean that businesses, especially small and medium-sized enterprises, find installing new security equipment challenging. That is why, as mentioned during Tuesday’s members’ business debate, I said that I was disappointed that the SNP Government did not pass on the 75 per cent business rates relief from the previous UK Conservative Government. I hope that, in her closing speech, the minister will outline a detailed strategy to tackle retail crime that includes an increase in policing and support for businesses that will help to enhance their security. Due to time, I could not take an intervention from Ben Macpherson—I am sorry.

Pam Gosal

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25998

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

Police numbers have fallen to their lowest in 17 years, and I was disappointed to hear that certain crimes will no longer be investigated due to the Government’s “proportionate response to crime” approach. Similarly, high taxes mean that businesses, especially small and medium-sized enterprises, find installing new security equipment challenging. That is why, as mentioned during Tuesday’s members’ business debate, I said that I was disappointed that the SNP Government did not pass on the 75 per cent business rates relief from the previous UK Conservative Government. I hope that, in her closing speech, the minister will outline a detailed strategy to tackle retail crime that includes an increase in policing and support for businesses that will help to enhance their security. Due to time, I could not take an intervention from Ben Macpherson—I am sorry.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.10

I, too, thank Sharon Dowey for securing time to debate something that I hope that other members know is close to my heart. She is absolutely right to highlight the human impact of the issue. However, let me be clear that I had hoped that we would not have to have this debate. I had hoped that something had changed through the course of the Covid pandemic. During that period, we all stood here a number of times and said that we needed to understand that retail workers were front-line workers and are undervalued, and that we had an opportunity to re-evaluate their importance because, ultimately, we are dependent on retail and retail workers in order to secure the necessities and essentials for life. However, since then, we have regressed. In the previous session of Parliament, I lodged a member’s bill that is now an act of Parliament—the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021—and that has had some impact. Now, we at least know some of the relevant numbers: according to the latest figures, under that legislation there have been more than 10,000 reports, a 61 per cent detection rate and 1,200 convictions, and more than 1,000 cases are proceeding through the courts. However, clearly, that is not enough, because we are seeing an escalation. Let us also be clear about the human impact of such crime. Anyone who has had to challenge a shoplifter or ask someone to leave their shop knows what it is like to have that physical confrontation. They know what it is like to have their heart pound and their nerves jangle. Even if they successfully get the person out of their store without any harm to themselves, they are left stunned and reeling for the rest of that day and then they have to go back there the next day—they have to return to that place of stress and trauma. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who is a victim of violence to return to the place where they were assaulted. Let us be clear: this is a problem that is getting worse. Before continuing, I remind the chamber of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and am the owner of a business that has retail interests. According to USDAW’s most recent survey, 18 per cent of shop workers—one in five—who were surveyed had experienced violence in the past year. What makes that worse is that it is a dramatic increase, as the figure was 8 per cent in the year before and only 5 per cent in 2019. That is an extraordinary rise and one that we should all find unacceptable. I absolutely agree with what Ben Macpherson said. These are serious issues. All of us recognise that there are no easy answers, but we need a debate on Government time to allow us to discuss the issues. I agree with Ben Macpherson’s point about bus passes. The approach does not need to be all or nothing. I have spoken with Lothian Buses and others, and I think that there are technical possibilities, such as time-limited restrictions and so on, so I ask the Government to look into that. It is also absolutely right to highlight the point about organised crime. It is clear to me from having spoken to Retailers Against Crime and retailers themselves that there is a growing pattern of organised crime, using vulnerable people to steal to order, with the proceeds from that cycling around the black economy, financing drug dealers, human traffickers and other, far more serious criminals. It is not a trivial crime or a victimless crime, and it certainly has consequences in far more serious areas. We should also consider the pattern of policing. First, we need the police to be far more engaged with retailers, in order to consider solutions and more effective reporting. Above all else, because of the creation of Police Scotland, the balance of policing has gone away from response officers. Having more police officers is one thing, but specialised units have taken police officers, and we need to question whether the balance is correct.

Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25514

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I, too, thank Sharon Dowey for securing time to debate something that I hope that other members know is close to my heart. She is absolutely right to highlight the human impact of the issue. However, let me be clear that I had hoped that we would not have to have this debate. I had hoped that something had changed through the course of the Covid pandemic. During that period, we all stood here a number of times and said that we needed to understand that retail workers were front-line workers and are undervalued, and that we had an opportunity to re-evaluate their importance because, ultimately, we are dependent on retail and retail workers in order to secure the necessities and essentials for life. However, since then, we have regressed. In the previous session of Parliament, I lodged a member’s bill that is now an act of Parliament—the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021—and that has had some impact. Now, we at least know some of the relevant numbers: according to the latest figures, under that legislation there have been more than 10,000 reports, a 61 per cent detection rate and 1,200 convictions, and more than 1,000 cases are proceeding through the courts. However, clearly, that is not enough, because we are seeing an escalation. Let us also be clear about the human impact of such crime. Anyone who has had to challenge a shoplifter or ask someone to leave their shop knows what it is like to have that physical confrontation. They know what it is like to have their heart pound and their nerves jangle. Even if they successfully get the person out of their store without any harm to themselves, they are left stunned and reeling for the rest of that day and then they have to go back there the next day—they have to return to that place of stress and trauma. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who is a victim of violence to return to the place where they were assaulted. Let us be clear: this is a problem that is getting worse. Before continuing, I remind the chamber of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and am the owner of a business that has retail interests. According to USDAW’s most recent survey, 18 per cent of shop workers—one in five—who were surveyed had experienced violence in the past year. What makes that worse is that it is a dramatic increase, as the figure was 8 per cent in the year before and only 5 per cent in 2019. That is an extraordinary rise and one that we should all find unacceptable. I absolutely agree with what Ben Macpherson said. These are serious issues. All of us recognise that there are no easy answers, but we need a debate on Government time to allow us to discuss the issues. I agree with Ben Macpherson’s point about bus passes. The approach does not need to be all or nothing. I have spoken with Lothian Buses and others, and I think that there are technical possibilities, such as time-limited restrictions and so on, so I ask the Government to look into that. It is also absolutely right to highlight the point about organised crime. It is clear to me from having spoken to Retailers Against Crime and retailers themselves that there is a growing pattern of organised crime, using vulnerable people to steal to order, with the proceeds from that cycling around the black economy, financing drug dealers, human traffickers and other, far more serious criminals. It is not a trivial crime or a victimless crime, and it certainly has consequences in far more serious areas. We should also consider the pattern of policing. First, we need the police to be far more engaged with retailers, in order to consider solutions and more effective reporting. Above all else, because of the creation of Police Scotland, the balance of policing has gone away from response officers. Having more police officers is one thing, but specialised units have taken police officers, and we need to question whether the balance is correct.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.11

I thank Sharon Dowey for securing this important debate on retail crime. I bring to the attention of the Parliament the fact that I am the convener of the cross-party group on independent convenience stores. On Tuesday, we had presentations from organisations and retailers on this very subject. I take this opportunity to thank John Mason, Foysol Choudhury and Murdo Fraser, who attended and discussed the subject with more than 20 representatives of the sector. There is no doubt that shoplifting is on the rise across the United Kingdom, with the British Retail Consortium highlighting that there were 5.6 million incidents of shop theft recorded in 2023, compared with 1.1 million in 2022. Over the past 10 years—since 2014—there has been a 41 per cent rise in shoplifting in Scotland, costing store owners anything between £5,000 and £12,000 each year. The Scottish Grocers Federation’s Scottish crime report for 2023-24 suggests that cases of shoplifting have doubled in the past year. The report highlights that many retailers are reluctant to report cases of shoplifting to the police due to slow response times, which undermines the effectiveness of reporting the crime and solving it. A constituent of mine who attended the cross-party group meeting on Tuesday night highlighted that, on top of the regular cases of shoplifting, they had, for the first time in more than 20 years, been robbed of a large quantity of high-value goods while the store was open. They had to wait more than a week for the police to attend. Another retailer highlighted how two incidents back in 2016 had had a traumatic impact on their health. That was because they had been broken into overnight twice in a 21-day period, when organised crime gangs stole high-value items. They then had to bear the cost of carrying out repairs and the expense of upgrading security, only to find that their insurance companies would not pay out. The result was that the cost was borne by a family business that provides a service to the community and employs 16 people. Shoplifting or theft is not a victimless crime. Another aspect of retail crime is the threat of violence. The Association of Convenience Stores reported that, in the past year, there were 76,000 incidents of violence and 1.2 million cases of verbal abuse across the UK. One of the ways in which we have tried to address the issue in Scotland was thanks to the Scottish Grocers Federation, which, working across the political spectrum, put in place the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021, which came into force in August 2021. We now have a record of the number of cases of abuse, threats and violence towards shop workers in Scotland—but that is not enough. While I welcome the fact that there are 20 per cent more police officers in Scotland than in England, and 22 per cent more than in Wales, we need to do more. On Tuesday, the cross-party group highlighted a number of actions that could be taken to help retailers to combat shoplifting. One is to establish a self-reporting scheme so that low-level crime is measured, highlighting hotspots and helping retailers to support each other and to be on the alert when incidents happen in their neighbourhood. A second is to investigate the possibility of introducing small grants to independent convenience stores to partly cover the cost of better security, which will help to deter crime. A third is to revise the guidance on the use of CCTV covering the front of premises in order that cameras are more effective in gathering evidence and can be used as a deterrent to would-be shoplifters. Across the shopping areas in our towns, villages and neighbourhoods, local people are dependent on the independent convenience store sector to provide the everyday necessities of living in the area. We need to address shoplifting in our communities before it becomes an epidemic and threatens the viability of many of those stores.

Gordon MacDonald (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25095

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I thank Sharon Dowey for securing this important debate on retail crime. I bring to the attention of the Parliament the fact that I am the convener of the cross-party group on independent convenience stores. On Tuesday, we had presentations from organisations and retailers on this very subject. I take this opportunity to thank John Mason, Foysol Choudhury and Murdo Fraser, who attended and discussed the subject with more than 20 representatives of the sector. There is no doubt that shoplifting is on the rise across the United Kingdom, with the British Retail Consortium highlighting that there were 5.6 million incidents of shop theft recorded in 2023, compared with 1.1 million in 2022. Over the past 10 years—since 2014—there has been a 41 per cent rise in shoplifting in Scotland, costing store owners anything between £5,000 and £12,000 each year. The Scottish Grocers Federation’s Scottish crime report for 2023-24 suggests that cases of shoplifting have doubled in the past year. The report highlights that many retailers are reluctant to report cases of shoplifting to the police due to slow response times, which undermines the effectiveness of reporting the crime and solving it. A constituent of mine who attended the cross-party group meeting on Tuesday night highlighted that, on top of the regular cases of shoplifting, they had, for the first time in more than 20 years, been robbed of a large quantity of high-value goods while the store was open. They had to wait more than a week for the police to attend. Another retailer highlighted how two incidents back in 2016 had had a traumatic impact on their health. That was because they had been broken into overnight twice in a 21-day period, when organised crime gangs stole high-value items. They then had to bear the cost of carrying out repairs and the expense of upgrading security, only to find that their insurance companies would not pay out. The result was that the cost was borne by a family business that provides a service to the community and employs 16 people. Shoplifting or theft is not a victimless crime. Another aspect of retail crime is the threat of violence. The Association of Convenience Stores reported that, in the past year, there were 76,000 incidents of violence and 1.2 million cases of verbal abuse across the UK. One of the ways in which we have tried to address the issue in Scotland was thanks to the Scottish Grocers Federation, which, working across the political spectrum, put in place the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021, which came into force in August 2021. We now have a record of the number of cases of abuse, threats and violence towards shop workers in Scotland—but that is not enough. While I welcome the fact that there are 20 per cent more police officers in Scotland than in England, and 22 per cent more than in Wales, we need to do more. On Tuesday, the cross-party group highlighted a number of actions that could be taken to help retailers to combat shoplifting. One is to establish a self-reporting scheme so that low-level crime is measured, highlighting hotspots and helping retailers to support each other and to be on the alert when incidents happen in their neighbourhood. A second is to investigate the possibility of introducing small grants to independent convenience stores to partly cover the cost of better security, which will help to deter crime. A third is to revise the guidance on the use of CCTV covering the front of premises in order that cameras are more effective in gathering evidence and can be used as a deterrent to would-be shoplifters. Across the shopping areas in our towns, villages and neighbourhoods, local people are dependent on the independent convenience store sector to provide the everyday necessities of living in the area. We need to address shoplifting in our communities before it becomes an epidemic and threatens the viability of many of those stores.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.12

I congratulate my colleague Sharon Dowey on securing this important debate. This morning, Conservative members sat down with senior representatives of Scottish retailers and companies that are at the heart of our communities—companies on which we all rely and which drive our economy and employ many people. The financial cost of retail crime is impossible to calculate, but of much greater concern is the impact on shop workers. Violence is rife and some staff have already been killed. Many of those tragic cases have not been reported in the media. Only last week, I raised the case of a Glasgow shopkeeper who was stabbed. The police quickly arrested the teenage assailant, who was then released back on to the streets. Within half an hour, he had murdered an innocent man. I will not talk about statistics. As one of the attendees at this morning’s meeting said, the figures have become almost irrelevant, partly because of underreporting. Suffice it to say that retail crime is out of control in Scotland. It is not me saying that: it is the retailers and the police. The Government has systematically weakened the justice system to the extent that shoplifting has been decriminalised by stealth. What do I mean by that? If retailers call the police and they do not attend, there is no consequence. If a thief is caught but given a recorded police warning instead of being charged, there is no consequence. If they are charged, the chance of a conviction has become close to non-existent so, again, there are no consequences. If consequences are deliberately and systematically removed, there is no deterrent. That leads to the inevitable consequence of criminals who believe that they can act with impunity. A significant amount of retail crime is committed by organised criminal gangs. Last week, I heard about a group of teenagers who are based in the Glasgow area. They use free bus passes to travel around Scotland and commit large-scale thefts. That is targeted and organised. The gang members are brazen. They make no attempt to hide their faces and they sweep high-value items from the shelves—the primary target is alcoholic spirits. It is suspected that the group is under the direction of adult organised criminals. Such gangs are increasingly violent, because they know that there are no consequences. I have seen numerous sickening CCTV videos of those people spitting on staff, punching them, threatening them and doing what they want with no consequence. It is inevitable that more people will end up dead. The police tell the retailers that their hands are tied. I speak with police officers who often feel powerless and frustrated. It seems that the Scottish Government is content to subcontract retail security on to the shoulders of retailers. Retailers already invest huge sums of money in protecting their staff and stock. It says a lot about the Government’s priorities that Police Scotland officers still do not have body-worn cameras, although they are standard kit in almost every shop. At this morning’s meeting, I told the retailers that my party is on their side and on the side of their staff. We believe that crime should have consequences. Retailers can be assured that I and my colleagues will continue to challenge the Government’s relentless weakening of our justice system.

Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25996

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I congratulate my colleague Sharon Dowey on securing this important debate. This morning, Conservative members sat down with senior representatives of Scottish retailers and companies that are at the heart of our communities—companies on which we all rely and which drive our economy and employ many people. The financial cost of retail crime is impossible to calculate, but of much greater concern is the impact on shop workers. Violence is rife and some staff have already been killed. Many of those tragic cases have not been reported in the media. Only last week, I raised the case of a Glasgow shopkeeper who was stabbed. The police quickly arrested the teenage assailant, who was then released back on to the streets. Within half an hour, he had murdered an innocent man. I will not talk about statistics. As one of the attendees at this morning’s meeting said, the figures have become almost irrelevant, partly because of underreporting. Suffice it to say that retail crime is out of control in Scotland. It is not me saying that: it is the retailers and the police. The Government has systematically weakened the justice system to the extent that shoplifting has been decriminalised by stealth. What do I mean by that? If retailers call the police and they do not attend, there is no consequence. If a thief is caught but given a recorded police warning instead of being charged, there is no consequence. If they are charged, the chance of a conviction has become close to non-existent so, again, there are no consequences. If consequences are deliberately and systematically removed, there is no deterrent. That leads to the inevitable consequence of criminals who believe that they can act with impunity. A significant amount of retail crime is committed by organised criminal gangs. Last week, I heard about a group of teenagers who are based in the Glasgow area. They use free bus passes to travel around Scotland and commit large-scale thefts. That is targeted and organised. The gang members are brazen. They make no attempt to hide their faces and they sweep high-value items from the shelves—the primary target is alcoholic spirits. It is suspected that the group is under the direction of adult organised criminals. Such gangs are increasingly violent, because they know that there are no consequences. I have seen numerous sickening CCTV videos of those people spitting on staff, punching them, threatening them and doing what they want with no consequence. It is inevitable that more people will end up dead. The police tell the retailers that their hands are tied. I speak with police officers who often feel powerless and frustrated. It seems that the Scottish Government is content to subcontract retail security on to the shoulders of retailers. Retailers already invest huge sums of money in protecting their staff and stock. It says a lot about the Government’s priorities that Police Scotland officers still do not have body-worn cameras, although they are standard kit in almost every shop. At this morning’s meeting, I told the retailers that my party is on their side and on the side of their staff. We believe that crime should have consequences. Retailers can be assured that I and my colleagues will continue to challenge the Government’s relentless weakening of our justice system.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.13

I begin by reminding members of my voluntary entry in the register of members’ interests. I thank Sharon Dowey for lodging the motion for today’s debate. She is one of the members of this Parliament who bring real-world experience to bear on issues and so deserves to be listened to. There is no question but that violence, theft and the abuse of shop workers is on the rise: the Scottish Retail Consortium tells us; the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers tells us; and the front-line workers I speak to tell me. Today’s motion echoes the calls that we have heard from the industry for the Scottish Government to “provide the police and courts the necessary direction and resources to prosecute offenders”. Well, the fact is that the police are not routinely arresting offenders at all. According to shop workers I have spoken to, Police Scotland will only charge people for shoplifting, for example, if they have a previous record or they are known to the police, which begs the question, “How do you get a previous record if you are never cautioned, never charged, never prosecuted and never sentenced?” But conversely, the other side of this approach is that, for some people, there is a revolving door in and out of prison for minor offences, often including shoplifting and the non-payment of fines. I spoke just recently to one bright, engaged and engaging young person who told me in his own words that he was an addict and he had spent most of the last few years in and out of prison for minor offences related to his addiction, including shoplifting. In my view, he clearly needed a helping hand, not an iron fist, so I do think we need to have balance in this debate. USDAW, in its 2023 annual “Freedom From Fear” survey, describes “a shoplifting epidemic driven by the cost of living crisis and organised crime.” USDAW reports that, among its retail membership, seven out of 10 respondents reported verbal abuse, 46 per cent received threats of violence and, as Daniel Johnson said, 18 per cent were physically assaulted. We know that the biggest single cause of retail crime occurs when somebody is being confronted for shoplifting, and shoplifting has risen by over 40 per cent in the last decade. The annual crime in Scotland report also records that almost a quarter of retail crimes occurred in one of Scotland’s top 15 per cent most deprived areas, and that 41 per cent of perpetrators resided in Scotland’s most deprived areas. So, there is clearly a link to poverty and inequality, to hopelessness and to powerlessness. Finally, this Parliament passes legislation on alcohol minimum unit pricing, on vapes and tobacco, on the shelving and display of alcohol and on fireworks, but the enforcement of those laws that we pass invariably falls to those low-paid shop workers out on the front line, which is why they need protection, which is why we passed a law in this Parliament to do just that. But, like any other piece of protective legislation, it needs to be enforced, and that places a requirement on retailers to take their duty of care to their staff seriously; that demands the police treat these incidents not as occupational hazards but as crimes; that means we as a society need to get to the root causes which lie behind this rise in retail crime; and it underlines the important role of trade unions in enforcing the rights of working people, which also means we need to challenge those employers, amongst them some of the biggest supermarket chains, which continue to resist trade union membership and organisation. So, this is about dignity at work, but it is also about democracy at work. This is about workers’ rights, but it is also about human rights.

Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25517

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I begin by reminding members of my voluntary entry in the register of members’ interests. I thank Sharon Dowey for lodging the motion for today’s debate. She is one of the members of this Parliament who bring real-world experience to bear on issues and so deserves to be listened to. There is no question but that violence, theft and the abuse of shop workers is on the rise: the Scottish Retail Consortium tells us; the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers tells us; and the front-line workers I speak to tell me. Today’s motion echoes the calls that we have heard from the industry for the Scottish Government to “provide the police and courts the necessary direction and resources to prosecute offenders”. Well, the fact is that the police are not routinely arresting offenders at all. According to shop workers I have spoken to, Police Scotland will only charge people for shoplifting, for example, if they have a previous record or they are known to the police, which begs the question, “How do you get a previous record if you are never cautioned, never charged, never prosecuted and never sentenced?” But conversely, the other side of this approach is that, for some people, there is a revolving door in and out of prison for minor offences, often including shoplifting and the non-payment of fines. I spoke just recently to one bright, engaged and engaging young person who told me in his own words that he was an addict and he had spent most of the last few years in and out of prison for minor offences related to his addiction, including shoplifting. In my view, he clearly needed a helping hand, not an iron fist, so I do think we need to have balance in this debate. USDAW, in its 2023 annual “Freedom From Fear” survey, describes “a shoplifting epidemic driven by the cost of living crisis and organised crime.” USDAW reports that, among its retail membership, seven out of 10 respondents reported verbal abuse, 46 per cent received threats of violence and, as Daniel Johnson said, 18 per cent were physically assaulted. We know that the biggest single cause of retail crime occurs when somebody is being confronted for shoplifting, and shoplifting has risen by over 40 per cent in the last decade. The annual crime in Scotland report also records that almost a quarter of retail crimes occurred in one of Scotland’s top 15 per cent most deprived areas, and that 41 per cent of perpetrators resided in Scotland’s most deprived areas. So, there is clearly a link to poverty and inequality, to hopelessness and to powerlessness. Finally, this Parliament passes legislation on alcohol minimum unit pricing, on vapes and tobacco, on the shelving and display of alcohol and on fireworks, but the enforcement of those laws that we pass invariably falls to those low-paid shop workers out on the front line, which is why they need protection, which is why we passed a law in this Parliament to do just that. But, like any other piece of protective legislation, it needs to be enforced, and that places a requirement on retailers to take their duty of care to their staff seriously; that demands the police treat these incidents not as occupational hazards but as crimes; that means we as a society need to get to the root causes which lie behind this rise in retail crime; and it underlines the important role of trade unions in enforcing the rights of working people, which also means we need to challenge those employers, amongst them some of the biggest supermarket chains, which continue to resist trade union membership and organisation. So, this is about dignity at work, but it is also about democracy at work. This is about workers’ rights, but it is also about human rights.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.14

I am pleased to be able to speak in the debate, and I commend and congratulate my colleague Sharon Dowey on bringing this important issue to the chamber. Retailers play an increasingly important role in communities across the country and are the lifeblood of many sectors of our economy. We can all agree that it is unacceptable for those working in retail settings to find themselves subject to any kind of abuse. Unfortunately, as we have heard from many speakers in the debate, the reality is that abuse is continually happening the length and breadth of the country and the motion rightly highlights those alarming trends. Earlier this year, a report from the Scottish Grocers’ Federation found that 100 per cent of retailers reported an increase in shoplifting in the past year, and 99 per cent said that it happened daily in their stores. The report also found that the cost of the crime was up to £12,000 per store, totalling £62.9 million across Scotland during a year. Perhaps the most shocking statistic was that 92 per cent of stores reported that violence against staff occurred at least once a week. Clearly, it is a serious problem and serious action and solutions are required. In recent years, the implementation of the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021 has been a welcome step; but it is only a step. Under the act, more than 10,000 incidents have already been reported to the police since August 2021, which shows the scale of the problem that we are facing. However, more needs to be done to ensure that the perpetrators are prosecuted. As we have already heard, there need to be consequences. Despite Police Scotland identifying the person responsible in 60 per cent of cases, only 11 per cent of those result in a conviction. On top of that, the SGF has highlighted that the lack of response from the police and the lack of confidence that retailers have in them is affecting the situation. It found that 90 per cent of retailers believe that the response to shoplifting is unsatisfactory or insufficiently delayed. There should not be delays; there should be consequences for these actions. The low conviction rate shows that we are not addressing the problem in the right way, and 75 per cent of retailers say that they are unlikely to report incidents to the police because of it. That is having a massive effect on the sector and the individuals who work in it. The true extent of those crimes is not clear as the raw data is not being uncovered. Although the legislation is there to protect workers, which is a step forward, much more needs to be done. For example, the motion speaks about the Scottish Retail Consortium’s call for greater focus on retail crime from Police Scotland, and for the Scottish Government to take the issue much more seriously. We cannot tolerate a situation in which the police are unable to investigate supposedly minor incidents of shoplifting simply because of a lack of resources from the Government. Instead, we should be aiming for a system that does not hesitate to support individuals who report or have experienced shoplifting. For the individuals who are working in retail up and down the country, and those who suffer the reality of it each and every day and week, a no-tolerance approach to retail crime and abuse is the least that they deserve. We should support them in that.

Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25538

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I am pleased to be able to speak in the debate, and I commend and congratulate my colleague Sharon Dowey on bringing this important issue to the chamber. Retailers play an increasingly important role in communities across the country and are the lifeblood of many sectors of our economy. We can all agree that it is unacceptable for those working in retail settings to find themselves subject to any kind of abuse. Unfortunately, as we have heard from many speakers in the debate, the reality is that abuse is continually happening the length and breadth of the country and the motion rightly highlights those alarming trends. Earlier this year, a report from the Scottish Grocers’ Federation found that 100 per cent of retailers reported an increase in shoplifting in the past year, and 99 per cent said that it happened daily in their stores. The report also found that the cost of the crime was up to £12,000 per store, totalling £62.9 million across Scotland during a year. Perhaps the most shocking statistic was that 92 per cent of stores reported that violence against staff occurred at least once a week. Clearly, it is a serious problem and serious action and solutions are required. In recent years, the implementation of the Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021 has been a welcome step; but it is only a step. Under the act, more than 10,000 incidents have already been reported to the police since August 2021, which shows the scale of the problem that we are facing. However, more needs to be done to ensure that the perpetrators are prosecuted. As we have already heard, there need to be consequences. Despite Police Scotland identifying the person responsible in 60 per cent of cases, only 11 per cent of those result in a conviction. On top of that, the SGF has highlighted that the lack of response from the police and the lack of confidence that retailers have in them is affecting the situation. It found that 90 per cent of retailers believe that the response to shoplifting is unsatisfactory or insufficiently delayed. There should not be delays; there should be consequences for these actions. The low conviction rate shows that we are not addressing the problem in the right way, and 75 per cent of retailers say that they are unlikely to report incidents to the police because of it. That is having a massive effect on the sector and the individuals who work in it. The true extent of those crimes is not clear as the raw data is not being uncovered. Although the legislation is there to protect workers, which is a step forward, much more needs to be done. For example, the motion speaks about the Scottish Retail Consortium’s call for greater focus on retail crime from Police Scotland, and for the Scottish Government to take the issue much more seriously. We cannot tolerate a situation in which the police are unable to investigate supposedly minor incidents of shoplifting simply because of a lack of resources from the Government. Instead, we should be aiming for a system that does not hesitate to support individuals who report or have experienced shoplifting. For the individuals who are working in retail up and down the country, and those who suffer the reality of it each and every day and week, a no-tolerance approach to retail crime and abuse is the least that they deserve. We should support them in that.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.15

I thank Sharon Dowey for raising this important issue. I am aware that, earlier this week, the cross-party group on independent convenience stores met to discuss many of these issues, too. As the member notes, shoplifting and violence and abuse towards retail workers are part of a worrying trend across the UK—it is not unique to Scotland—that is, rightly, causing concern among our retailers. The latest police recorded crime statistics, for the year ending this June, suggest that shoplifting is up by more than a third on the previous year. That is not acceptable, and neither is the violence and threatening behaviour that often accompanies such incidents. I thank all members for their contributions to the debate. I know that the issue is very emotive, and I think that all of us in the chamber, regardless of our political colour, want to tackle it.

The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25986

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I thank Sharon Dowey for raising this important issue. I am aware that, earlier this week, the cross-party group on independent convenience stores met to discuss many of these issues, too. As the member notes, shoplifting and violence and abuse towards retail workers are part of a worrying trend across the UK—it is not unique to Scotland—that is, rightly, causing concern among our retailers. The latest police recorded crime statistics, for the year ending this June, suggest that shoplifting is up by more than a third on the previous year. That is not acceptable, and neither is the violence and threatening behaviour that often accompanies such incidents. I thank all members for their contributions to the debate. I know that the issue is very emotive, and I think that all of us in the chamber, regardless of our political colour, want to tackle it.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.16

Does the minister accept that this shocking rise that she accepts is happening is in any way due to the fact that there are no consequences for those who are committing the crimes?

Russell Findlay

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25996

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

Does the minister accept that this shocking rise that she accepts is happening is in any way due to the fact that there are no consequences for those who are committing the crimes?

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.17

Could the minister adjust her microphone slightly?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/14046

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

Could the minister adjust her microphone slightly?

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.18

I will come on to some of the issues that have been raised later in my speech. I heard concerns about these issues first hand when I attended meetings of the retail industry leadership group on 14 March and the Scottish Retail Consortium on 19 March. At those meetings, I heard about the work that retailers are doing to cope with these issues, including introducing extra security measures and support for staff, as well as their views on what is driving the upward trend. I appreciate Ms Dowey’s comments on her previous career and her experience of violence in the retail sector in a past life. I have also personally experienced it. Although the increase cannot be entirely attributed to the cost of living, Police Scotland has been clear with me that that is undoubtedly a major driver. These incidents are deeply concerning, which is why I urge all retailers to keep reporting crimes. I appreciate that some will not, but I will come later in my speech to a Police Scotland initiative that could encourage them to do so. Each crime report aids our collective understanding of who is doing this and why, and means that police officers may also have intelligence that they can use to catch the perpetrators. Policing in Scotland continues to be a priority for the Scottish Government. Our budget for 2024-25 includes record total police funding of £1.55 billion, which is an increase of £92.7 million on the previous year, despite exceptionally difficult financial circumstances due to the UK Government’s austerity.

Siobhian Brown

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25986

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I will come on to some of the issues that have been raised later in my speech. I heard concerns about these issues first hand when I attended meetings of the retail industry leadership group on 14 March and the Scottish Retail Consortium on 19 March. At those meetings, I heard about the work that retailers are doing to cope with these issues, including introducing extra security measures and support for staff, as well as their views on what is driving the upward trend. I appreciate Ms Dowey’s comments on her previous career and her experience of violence in the retail sector in a past life. I have also personally experienced it. Although the increase cannot be entirely attributed to the cost of living, Police Scotland has been clear with me that that is undoubtedly a major driver. These incidents are deeply concerning, which is why I urge all retailers to keep reporting crimes. I appreciate that some will not, but I will come later in my speech to a Police Scotland initiative that could encourage them to do so. Each crime report aids our collective understanding of who is doing this and why, and means that police officers may also have intelligence that they can use to catch the perpetrators. Policing in Scotland continues to be a priority for the Scottish Government. Our budget for 2024-25 includes record total police funding of £1.55 billion, which is an increase of £92.7 million on the previous year, despite exceptionally difficult financial circumstances due to the UK Government’s austerity.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.19

I wonder whether the minister might respond to the point that I made on that in my speech. It is not about the numbers or the funding but about the model of policing that we have adopted. We prioritise central specialist units over response units, which means that we have fewer response officers than we did prior to police reorganisation. That contributes to the issue.

Daniel Johnson

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25514

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I wonder whether the minister might respond to the point that I made on that in my speech. It is not about the numbers or the funding but about the model of policing that we have adopted. We prioritise central specialist units over response units, which means that we have fewer response officers than we did prior to police reorganisation. That contributes to the issue.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.20

Minister, I can give you the time back for the intervention.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/14046

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

Minister, I can give you the time back for the intervention.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.21

I believe—and we discussed this in a debate last week—that there is an issue in local authorities with collaborative working with the police. I had a meeting last week with my local police and they told me that they could identify all the shoplifters in Ayr town centre and knew how to get in touch with them. There has to be a collaborative approach between local authorities, because it is not just up to the police. There has to be collaborative working between the council, antisocial behaviour services and the police. I return to Police Scotland funding. That funding will allow the chief constable to deliver on her commitment to strengthen the force through her plans for a revised model of policing, including enabling the service to restart recruitment and increase officer numbers. I note that a few members have called for more police. I am glad to report that Police Scotland has welcomed more than 690 new officers since March and more than 1,280 new recruits since the beginning of 2023. Further intakes are planned throughout this year, with Police Scotland set to take on more recruits this year than at any time since 2013. Police Scotland described the number of candidates and applicants looking to join up as really positive. I hope that members welcome that. I am encouraged by the approach that Police Scotland is taking to tackling shoplifting and addressing these recent trends. Central to that work is the innovative Scottish partnership against acquisitive crime strategy, also known as SPAACE, which is led by Police Scotland. It works with retailers and other organisations, including Retailers Against Crime and Neighbourhood Watch Scotland. Its focus is on prevention, deterrence and, where appropriate, enforcement. I note that the motion raises a point about the protection of retail workers in the South Scotland region. Officers have engaged directly with retailers of various sizes across the whole country on how to minimise opportunities for this type of crime, protect individuals and businesses and deliver clear advice and guidance for prevention. I ask that retailers take advantage of Police Scotland’s advice in this area. Although the problem must also be tackled through enforcement, ensuring that premises are not an easy target for shoplifters is important. The Scottish Government underlines its support for the SPAACE approach in our programme for government, which was published earlier this month, and I would like to draw members’ attention to a specific pilot project that Police Scotland has initiated in Fife. Statistics on the number of retailers who are not willing to report crime were given, and work on that is being undertaken. Police Scotland, together with partners and information technology providers—

Siobhian Brown

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25986

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I believe—and we discussed this in a debate last week—that there is an issue in local authorities with collaborative working with the police. I had a meeting last week with my local police and they told me that they could identify all the shoplifters in Ayr town centre and knew how to get in touch with them. There has to be a collaborative approach between local authorities, because it is not just up to the police. There has to be collaborative working between the council, antisocial behaviour services and the police. I return to Police Scotland funding. That funding will allow the chief constable to deliver on her commitment to strengthen the force through her plans for a revised model of policing, including enabling the service to restart recruitment and increase officer numbers. I note that a few members have called for more police. I am glad to report that Police Scotland has welcomed more than 690 new officers since March and more than 1,280 new recruits since the beginning of 2023. Further intakes are planned throughout this year, with Police Scotland set to take on more recruits this year than at any time since 2013. Police Scotland described the number of candidates and applicants looking to join up as really positive. I hope that members welcome that. I am encouraged by the approach that Police Scotland is taking to tackling shoplifting and addressing these recent trends. Central to that work is the innovative Scottish partnership against acquisitive crime strategy, also known as SPAACE, which is led by Police Scotland. It works with retailers and other organisations, including Retailers Against Crime and Neighbourhood Watch Scotland. Its focus is on prevention, deterrence and, where appropriate, enforcement. I note that the motion raises a point about the protection of retail workers in the South Scotland region. Officers have engaged directly with retailers of various sizes across the whole country on how to minimise opportunities for this type of crime, protect individuals and businesses and deliver clear advice and guidance for prevention. I ask that retailers take advantage of Police Scotland’s advice in this area. Although the problem must also be tackled through enforcement, ensuring that premises are not an easy target for shoplifters is important. The Scottish Government underlines its support for the SPAACE approach in our programme for government, which was published earlier this month, and I would like to draw members’ attention to a specific pilot project that Police Scotland has initiated in Fife. Statistics on the number of retailers who are not willing to report crime were given, and work on that is being undertaken. Police Scotland, together with partners and information technology providers—

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.22

I mentioned the pilot project taking place in Fife in a previous question. It is not in my region, and I was not able to find out much information about it, but I got feedback from one group that is involved that crimes are being reported—there is a new way to report them—but no action is being taken by the police. The on-going issue seems to be that the retailers are not reporting any incidents to the police because the police do not have the capacity to respond.

Sharon Dowey

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25992

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I mentioned the pilot project taking place in Fife in a previous question. It is not in my region, and I was not able to find out much information about it, but I got feedback from one group that is involved that crimes are being reported—there is a new way to report them—but no action is being taken by the police. The on-going issue seems to be that the retailers are not reporting any incidents to the police because the police do not have the capacity to respond.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.23

I will have to look into that. I will give the member further information, but I have been told that reports have been submitted to the procurator fiscal as a result of the pilot. To go back to the pilot, Police Scotland, together with partners and information technology providers, have helped to develop a platform allowing staff in stores to send details of crime directly to Police Scotland, so that offences can be investigated. That happens in other parts of the United Kingdom and it is also happening in New Zealand. There has been engagement with businesses across the local authority area encouraging participation in the pilot. Following a soft launch earlier this year, the go live in September 2024 saw more retailers join the platform, which has already resulted in the positive identification of offenders and a number of reports submitted to the procurator fiscal. The ability for stores to compile their own crime reports and submit those directly to the police not only empowers businesses to take action against criminals but frees up police time to investigate incidents. Lead officers hope to see further arrests being made as part of the pilot, and I would join them in encouraging as many retailers as possible in Fife to get involved. I really hope that the scheme will be rolled out throughout Scotland. The debate has raised an important point about the use of criminal law in attacks against retail workers. Retail workers are already protected by a wide range of criminal laws, including the protection of workers legislation, which came into force in August 2021 and which was based on a member’s bill by Daniel Johnson. Today’s motion rightly highlights the impact that legislation has had on improving visibility and legal protection for retail workers. Although it is always shocking to hear that retail workers are being threatened and abused, they should feel confident in reporting such offences, as they are being taken seriously by the police. I am very conscious of time, but one issue that I want to raise is bus passes. [Interruption.] I am sorry, but I am not going to take any more interventions, as we are running too short of time. Work is on-going with stakeholders, including the bus industry, to develop specific actions to tackle antisocial behaviour on the bus network. Work to develop a process for temporary suspension or withdrawal of concessionary travel entitlement through the national concessionary travel scheme is being progressed for consideration in the medium term, including an assessment of the most appropriate route to enable that within the statutory scheme. Work is on-going on that. I welcome the opportunity to have this debate about these important issues and I again thank Sharon Dowey for lodging the motion.

Siobhian Brown

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25986

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

I will have to look into that. I will give the member further information, but I have been told that reports have been submitted to the procurator fiscal as a result of the pilot. To go back to the pilot, Police Scotland, together with partners and information technology providers, have helped to develop a platform allowing staff in stores to send details of crime directly to Police Scotland, so that offences can be investigated. That happens in other parts of the United Kingdom and it is also happening in New Zealand. There has been engagement with businesses across the local authority area encouraging participation in the pilot. Following a soft launch earlier this year, the go live in September 2024 saw more retailers join the platform, which has already resulted in the positive identification of offenders and a number of reports submitted to the procurator fiscal. The ability for stores to compile their own crime reports and submit those directly to the police not only empowers businesses to take action against criminals but frees up police time to investigate incidents. Lead officers hope to see further arrests being made as part of the pilot, and I would join them in encouraging as many retailers as possible in Fife to get involved. I really hope that the scheme will be rolled out throughout Scotland. The debate has raised an important point about the use of criminal law in attacks against retail workers. Retail workers are already protected by a wide range of criminal laws, including the protection of workers legislation, which came into force in August 2021 and which was based on a member’s bill by Daniel Johnson. Today’s motion rightly highlights the impact that legislation has had on improving visibility and legal protection for retail workers. Although it is always shocking to hear that retail workers are being threatened and abused, they should feel confident in reporting such offences, as they are being taken seriously by the police. I am very conscious of time, but one issue that I want to raise is bus passes. [Interruption.] I am sorry, but I am not going to take any more interventions, as we are running too short of time. Work is on-going with stakeholders, including the bus industry, to develop specific actions to tackle antisocial behaviour on the bus network. Work to develop a process for temporary suspension or withdrawal of concessionary travel entitlement through the national concessionary travel scheme is being progressed for consideration in the medium term, including an assessment of the most appropriate route to enable that within the statutory scheme. Work is on-going on that. I welcome the opportunity to have this debate about these important issues and I again thank Sharon Dowey for lodging the motion.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.2.24

That concludes the debate, and I suspend this meeting of Parliament until 2 o’clock.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/14046

Retail Crime and Antisocial Behaviour

That concludes the debate, and I suspend this meeting of Parliament until 2 o’clock.