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5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.122

I will not quite yet. The levers to control those powers are vested in this very institution; they sit in the hands of front-bench ministers. On tax, welfare and public services, the SNP has the power to make this country more modern, more diverse and more dynamic, but John Swinney and his party have actively chosen to do the opposite. The years after the referendum could have been used to heal our nation, bury the hatchet and end the division that it created. Instead, the SNP has neglected to do the day job. It has failed to use devolution to bring our country together, and, by not doing so, it will not be able to take it forward. In short, Scotland would have been a better place—a more modern, forward-looking and prosperous place—had the SNP accepted the result of the referendum. I will reflect on today’s contributions. Pam Gosal was entirely correct—as I have always found her to be. As the first Indian woman and the first Sikh elected to Holyrood, Ms Gosal has had much to offer about diversity issues in the chamber. However, as she noted, the SNP Government chose to hijack this important conversation to talk about one thing and one thing only: independence. That was clear from the contributions from SNP back benchers. As Alex Cole-Hamilton said, however much the SNP talks about it, out there in the country, in the real world—in the pubs, bars, restaurants and shops, and on the streets of Scotland—independence is no longer the priority even of those who favour it, but we know that that is what the SNP wanted to focus on in the debate. Kevin Stewart gave us a rhetorically excellent speech, but it was misty eyed and simplistic in its outlook of how an independent Scotland would possibly function. Ross Greer informed us that, as a much younger man, he was dispatched by the organisers of the yes movement to go out and talk to undecided voters. I thank the organiser who deployed him for that tactic. Ash Regan mentioned the weather, but she did not mention her independence barometer. Even she would agree that, under the SNP Government, independence is stone-cold dead. There are serious issues at the heart of today’s debate because the Government failed to recognise a once-in-a-generation referendum. That was a failure of national leadership, but the failures did not stop there. There was then a failure to grow the Scottish economy; the Scottish budget would be £624 million higher this year if Scottish economic performance had matched that of the rest of the UK. Only last year, there was a failure to ensure that the Scottish National Investment Bank—which was once the flagship of the SNP’s investment agenda—functioned properly. It lost £14.6 million last year. There was a failure to pass on business rates relief in the budget, which is doing untold damage to Scottish hospitality and retail. There has been a failure on tax, with most Scots now paying higher taxes compared with those in the rest of the UK. The SNP has also failed to tackle waste, with £2.7 billion of taxpayers’ money being squandered over the course of the Parliamentary session. It has singularly failed local government, with councils’ debt soaring to one and a half times their annual budget. Annie Wells noted the SNP’s failure on health. It has failed to meet its cancer treatment target each and every year since 2014. It has failed to tackle drug addiction, which is now Scotland's national shame, with nearly 22,000 drug and alcohol deaths since 2014. It has failed to tackle long waits in Scotland’s NHS, where waiting lists have more than doubled since the 2014 independence referendum. The SNP has also failed on education, which was meant to be its number 1 priority. It oversaw the worst-ever international results in reading, maths and science. Levels of violence and disruptive behaviour in schools have skyrocketed. Despite Nicola Sturgeon’s promise, the SNP has failed to close the attainment gap. John Swinney’s recent programme for government rows back on that commitment. The charge sheet continues. The SNP has failed in its plans to launch a national energy company. It has repeatedly failed Scotland’s oil and gas industry, which supports 93,000 jobs. It has failed on its very own climate targets, after missing them for nine years out of 13. It has failed on ferries, with two vessels now seven years late—and counting—and £300 million over budget. It has failed rural drivers by failing to dual the A9 and the A96, which has resulted in far too many avoidable deaths. The list goes on and on. The SNP has failed to meet its tree-planting targets in five of the past six years. It has failed on its manifesto commitment to invest £25 million in rural housing. It has failed on its promise to install superfast broadband across rural Scotland by 2021. Let us look at the waste: £2 million of taxpayers’ money was spent on civil servants working with Angus Robertson on independence, and more than £200,000 was spent on 13 independence white papers that nobody is reading. Meanwhile, the percentage of children living in poverty has remained the same in Scotland since 2007, and the SNP has failed to hit the target of transferring all benefits to Scotland by 2020. Let us look at the police. Police numbers are at their lowest level since the SNP came to power.

Craig Hoy

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26000

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

I will not quite yet. The levers to control those powers are vested in this very institution; they sit in the hands of front-bench ministers. On tax, welfare and public services, the SNP has the power to make this country more modern, more diverse and more dynamic, but John Swinney and his party have actively chosen to do the opposite. The years after the referendum could have been used to heal our nation, bury the hatchet and end the division that it created. Instead, the SNP has neglected to do the day job. It has failed to use devolution to bring our country together, and, by not doing so, it will not be able to take it forward. In short, Scotland would have been a better place—a more modern, forward-looking and prosperous place—had the SNP accepted the result of the referendum. I will reflect on today’s contributions. Pam Gosal was entirely correct—as I have always found her to be. As the first Indian woman and the first Sikh elected to Holyrood, Ms Gosal has had much to offer about diversity issues in the chamber. However, as she noted, the SNP Government chose to hijack this important conversation to talk about one thing and one thing only: independence. That was clear from the contributions from SNP back benchers. As Alex Cole-Hamilton said, however much the SNP talks about it, out there in the country, in the real world—in the pubs, bars, restaurants and shops, and on the streets of Scotland—independence is no longer the priority even of those who favour it, but we know that that is what the SNP wanted to focus on in the debate. Kevin Stewart gave us a rhetorically excellent speech, but it was misty eyed and simplistic in its outlook of how an independent Scotland would possibly function. Ross Greer informed us that, as a much younger man, he was dispatched by the organisers of the yes movement to go out and talk to undecided voters. I thank the organiser who deployed him for that tactic. Ash Regan mentioned the weather, but she did not mention her independence barometer. Even she would agree that, under the SNP Government, independence is stone-cold dead. There are serious issues at the heart of today’s debate because the Government failed to recognise a once-in-a-generation referendum. That was a failure of national leadership, but the failures did not stop there. There was then a failure to grow the Scottish economy; the Scottish budget would be £624 million higher this year if Scottish economic performance had matched that of the rest of the UK. Only last year, there was a failure to ensure that the Scottish National Investment Bank—which was once the flagship of the SNP’s investment agenda—functioned properly. It lost £14.6 million last year. There was a failure to pass on business rates relief in the budget, which is doing untold damage to Scottish hospitality and retail. There has been a failure on tax, with most Scots now paying higher taxes compared with those in the rest of the UK. The SNP has also failed to tackle waste, with £2.7 billion of taxpayers’ money being squandered over the course of the Parliamentary session. It has singularly failed local government, with councils’ debt soaring to one and a half times their annual budget. Annie Wells noted the SNP’s failure on health. It has failed to meet its cancer treatment target each and every year since 2014. It has failed to tackle drug addiction, which is now Scotland's national shame, with nearly 22,000 drug and alcohol deaths since 2014. It has failed to tackle long waits in Scotland’s NHS, where waiting lists have more than doubled since the 2014 independence referendum. The SNP has also failed on education, which was meant to be its number 1 priority. It oversaw the worst-ever international results in reading, maths and science. Levels of violence and disruptive behaviour in schools have skyrocketed. Despite Nicola Sturgeon’s promise, the SNP has failed to close the attainment gap. John Swinney’s recent programme for government rows back on that commitment. The charge sheet continues. The SNP has failed in its plans to launch a national energy company. It has repeatedly failed Scotland’s oil and gas industry, which supports 93,000 jobs. It has failed on its very own climate targets, after missing them for nine years out of 13. It has failed on ferries, with two vessels now seven years late—and counting—and £300 million over budget. It has failed rural drivers by failing to dual the A9 and the A96, which has resulted in far too many avoidable deaths. The list goes on and on. The SNP has failed to meet its tree-planting targets in five of the past six years. It has failed on its manifesto commitment to invest £25 million in rural housing. It has failed on its promise to install superfast broadband across rural Scotland by 2021. Let us look at the waste: £2 million of taxpayers’ money was spent on civil servants working with Angus Robertson on independence, and more than £200,000 was spent on 13 independence white papers that nobody is reading. Meanwhile, the percentage of children living in poverty has remained the same in Scotland since 2007, and the SNP has failed to hit the target of transferring all benefits to Scotland by 2020. Let us look at the police. Police numbers are at their lowest level since the SNP came to power.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.123

Theresa May is on the record as warning, back in 2013, that Scotland would be denied access to the UK’s most sophisticated and secret intelligence and counterterrorism tools if we became independent—in other words, we would be less safe. Can the member explain how Brexit has changed that, given that our European neighbours are our closest allies in this space?

Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26009

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

Theresa May is on the record as warning, back in 2013, that Scotland would be denied access to the UK’s most sophisticated and secret intelligence and counterterrorism tools if we became independent—in other words, we would be less safe. Can the member explain how Brexit has changed that, given that our European neighbours are our closest allies in this space?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.124

In conclusion, Mr Hoy.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

In conclusion, Mr Hoy.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.125

What is not keeping Scots safe is having the lowest police numbers since 2014 and a rise in crime since 2014. Ultimately, this Government has failed that test. It has also failed the transparency test. The SNP’s headquarters have been raided by Police Scotland—

Craig Hoy

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26000

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

What is not keeping Scots safe is having the lowest police numbers since 2014 and a rise in crime since 2014. Ultimately, this Government has failed that test. It has also failed the transparency test. The SNP’s headquarters have been raided by Police Scotland—

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.126

Conclude, Mr Hoy.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

Conclude, Mr Hoy.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.127

Nicola Sturgeon misled Parliament during the Salmond scandal. Ultimately, the First Minister is following in the failed footsteps of his predecessors by failing to respect the result of the referendum and failing to use the powers of this Parliament to full and good effect. In short, on each and every single day of the past decade—

Craig Hoy

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26000

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

Nicola Sturgeon misled Parliament during the Salmond scandal. Ultimately, the First Minister is following in the failed footsteps of his predecessors by failing to respect the result of the referendum and failing to use the powers of this Parliament to full and good effect. In short, on each and every single day of the past decade—

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.128

Conclude, Mr Hoy.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

Conclude, Mr Hoy.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.129

—the SNP has put its own interests first and the Scottish national interest second.

Craig Hoy

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26000

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

—the SNP has put its own interests first and the Scottish national interest second.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.130

Thank you, Mr Hoy. I call Kate Forbes to wind up the debate.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

Thank you, Mr Hoy. I call Kate Forbes to wind up the debate.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.131

I certainly cannot believe that it has been 10 years since the independence referendum—a day that many, many people spent years hoping and campaigning for. Regardless of the side that people were on, it was a victory for democracy—discussing and deciding Scotland’s future in a peaceful, largely respectful and thoughtful way. That is surely a success for us all. Today’s debate has revealed some other successes—the freedom that we still enjoy to debate freely, to hold very different views and to represent every community in Scotland. I agree with Ash Regan about tempering our language to restore respect to the constitutional debate; I also agree with Willie Rennie that that extends to respecting that people can be patriotic and proud while taking different positions on the constitution. In the spirit of disagreeing well, I will highlight a few comments that have been made. Douglas Ross said that independence would not solve any of the issues that he highlighted as priorities. Foremost among those that he mentioned was the rise of poverty. I assume that that is the same poverty that has been exacerbated by his party dismantling the benefits system, baking indignity and inhumanity into it. Only when devolved has that system actually become fairer.

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25504

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

I certainly cannot believe that it has been 10 years since the independence referendum—a day that many, many people spent years hoping and campaigning for. Regardless of the side that people were on, it was a victory for democracy—discussing and deciding Scotland’s future in a peaceful, largely respectful and thoughtful way. That is surely a success for us all. Today’s debate has revealed some other successes—the freedom that we still enjoy to debate freely, to hold very different views and to represent every community in Scotland. I agree with Ash Regan about tempering our language to restore respect to the constitutional debate; I also agree with Willie Rennie that that extends to respecting that people can be patriotic and proud while taking different positions on the constitution. In the spirit of disagreeing well, I will highlight a few comments that have been made. Douglas Ross said that independence would not solve any of the issues that he highlighted as priorities. Foremost among those that he mentioned was the rise of poverty. I assume that that is the same poverty that has been exacerbated by his party dismantling the benefits system, baking indignity and inhumanity into it. Only when devolved has that system actually become fairer.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.132

I ask the member the same question that I asked the First Minister. If those powers are so important to this Parliament, why, then, has her Government returned them to the UK Parliament?

Douglas Ross

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25531

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

I ask the member the same question that I asked the First Minister. If those powers are so important to this Parliament, why, then, has her Government returned them to the UK Parliament?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.133

My question in response to Douglas Ross would be, what powers is he talking about? We have worked hard to devolve and transform powers, and the experience for so many people across the country has been dramatically different. The poverty that Douglas Ross spoke about is the same poverty that catastrophically worsened under a Conservative Prime Minister who crashed the economy, sent interest rates rocketing and earned the mockery of the international community. All that was delivered by a party that had not won an election in Scotland since the 1950s, so there can be no suggestion that Scots ever voted for that. I would have far more trust in the people of Scotland making intelligent, compassionate and wise choices than I ever would have had in successive UK Prime Ministers. That brings me to Anas Sarwar, who claimed that bills going up during the SNP’s tenure was a strong argument against independence. That makes me wonder what it means for the union as energy bills have spiralled after only two months of Labour rule. Two months is all we have had, but Scots will be poorer and colder for it. Labour promised to cut energy bills by £300, yet bills have gone up by £149. That would be a problem in and of itself, but this is an energy-rich country. We hear time and again that Scotland has the resources and the assets for the just transition—that we will lead when it comes to Labour’s energy future—and yet Scots are paying more. Labour’s new campaign for the union is that things can only get worse. Vote Labour to get colder and poorer; vote no for a depressing, unequal austerity-laced future. What a vision. As Kevin Stewart said, all the threats that those in favour of the union put to us in 2014 did actually come true—we had prophets amongst us—but they came true because we voted no. We are out of the EU because we voted no,and Scotland’s vote was irrelevant, and we have seen successive UK Governments mismanage the economy, leaving us wrestling with higher, more stubborn inflation and spiralling costs. However, we need to look to the future, and I want to end on a point of consensus. As the First Minister said, we are all in politics because we want to be agents of change. We believe that the world is not as fair, prosperous or just as it should be, and we want to fix that. We will do that by listening to the people. We are accountable to them; we owe it to them to represent their views and their experiences, as diverse as they are—and nowhere more so than on the constitution—and we will do that through collaboration. It is no small thing that those on both sides of the constitutional debate can still discuss their views freely and openly. Our vision is to break the cycle of poverty so that there is equality of opportunity for every child, irrespective of where they are born or who they are; to foster aspiration and entrepreneurship; to unlock creativity; to solve the biggest societal challenges of our day in healthcare, transport and the transition to net zero; and to share prosperity so that every family, household and person in Scotland can make ends meet and thrive. I hope that we all believe that Scotland is wealthy enough, talented enough, and more than enough. It is up to us to either stymie that or to foster it. I remain ever hopeful that the future will be much better than the present.

Kate Forbes

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25504

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

My question in response to Douglas Ross would be, what powers is he talking about? We have worked hard to devolve and transform powers, and the experience for so many people across the country has been dramatically different. The poverty that Douglas Ross spoke about is the same poverty that catastrophically worsened under a Conservative Prime Minister who crashed the economy, sent interest rates rocketing and earned the mockery of the international community. All that was delivered by a party that had not won an election in Scotland since the 1950s, so there can be no suggestion that Scots ever voted for that. I would have far more trust in the people of Scotland making intelligent, compassionate and wise choices than I ever would have had in successive UK Prime Ministers. That brings me to Anas Sarwar, who claimed that bills going up during the SNP’s tenure was a strong argument against independence. That makes me wonder what it means for the union as energy bills have spiralled after only two months of Labour rule. Two months is all we have had, but Scots will be poorer and colder for it. Labour promised to cut energy bills by £300, yet bills have gone up by £149. That would be a problem in and of itself, but this is an energy-rich country. We hear time and again that Scotland has the resources and the assets for the just transition—that we will lead when it comes to Labour’s energy future—and yet Scots are paying more. Labour’s new campaign for the union is that things can only get worse. Vote Labour to get colder and poorer; vote no for a depressing, unequal austerity-laced future. What a vision. As Kevin Stewart said, all the threats that those in favour of the union put to us in 2014 did actually come true—we had prophets amongst us—but they came true because we voted no. We are out of the EU because we voted no,and Scotland’s vote was irrelevant, and we have seen successive UK Governments mismanage the economy, leaving us wrestling with higher, more stubborn inflation and spiralling costs. However, we need to look to the future, and I want to end on a point of consensus. As the First Minister said, we are all in politics because we want to be agents of change. We believe that the world is not as fair, prosperous or just as it should be, and we want to fix that. We will do that by listening to the people. We are accountable to them; we owe it to them to represent their views and their experiences, as diverse as they are—and nowhere more so than on the constitution—and we will do that through collaboration. It is no small thing that those on both sides of the constitutional debate can still discuss their views freely and openly. Our vision is to break the cycle of poverty so that there is equality of opportunity for every child, irrespective of where they are born or who they are; to foster aspiration and entrepreneurship; to unlock creativity; to solve the biggest societal challenges of our day in healthcare, transport and the transition to net zero; and to share prosperity so that every family, household and person in Scotland can make ends meet and thrive. I hope that we all believe that Scotland is wealthy enough, talented enough, and more than enough. It is up to us to either stymie that or to foster it. I remain ever hopeful that the future will be much better than the present.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.134

That concludes the debate on creating a modern, diverse, dynamic Scotland. It is time to move on to the next item of business—

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

That concludes the debate on creating a modern, diverse, dynamic Scotland. It is time to move on to the next item of business—

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.135

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I rise to raise a concern about some information that has been put in theOfficial Reporttoday that might not be accurate—in particular, a statement from Pam Gosal. I do not have her exact words, but she said something to the effect that people in the UK pay less tax than people in Scotland. In addressing that, I am not just talking about tuition fees being free in Scotland, or prescription charges, or the council tax reduction that was mentioned by the First Minister, or the baby box, or the Scottish child payment, or even, in fact—

Keith Brown

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13961

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I rise to raise a concern about some information that has been put in theOfficial Reporttoday that might not be accurate—in particular, a statement from Pam Gosal. I do not have her exact words, but she said something to the effect that people in the UK pay less tax than people in Scotland. In addressing that, I am not just talking about tuition fees being free in Scotland, or prescription charges, or the council tax reduction that was mentioned by the First Minister, or the baby box, or the Scottish child payment, or even, in fact—

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.136

Mr Brown, if I may interrupt. I know that, as a long-serving member, you will be aware that a point of order is intended to question whether or not proper procedures have been followed or are being followed. I would be grateful for the point of order.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

Mr Brown, if I may interrupt. I know that, as a long-serving member, you will be aware that a point of order is intended to question whether or not proper procedures have been followed or are being followed. I would be grateful for the point of order.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.137

Am I able to conclude my point of order, Presiding Officer?

Keith Brown

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13961

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

Am I able to conclude my point of order, Presiding Officer?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.138

Yes.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

Yes.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.139

I was not referring to the fact that, in Scotland, we pay between £400 and £500 less in council tax. I was not even referring to the fact that the UK Government has created the largest tax burden since the second world war. I was referring to the fact that the official statistics show that the majority of people in Scotland pay less income tax than they do in the rest of the UK. If Pam Gosal genuinely spoke in error, surely it would be appropriate for her to stand up and correct the Official Report.

Keith Brown

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13961

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

I was not referring to the fact that, in Scotland, we pay between £400 and £500 less in council tax. I was not even referring to the fact that the UK Government has created the largest tax burden since the second world war. I was referring to the fact that the official statistics show that the majority of people in Scotland pay less income tax than they do in the rest of the UK. If Pam Gosal genuinely spoke in error, surely it would be appropriate for her to stand up and correct the Official Report.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.2.140

I say to all members that questions regarding the accuracy of members’ contributions are not points of order. The content of members’ contributions are matters for the member. All members will be aware that there is a mechanism available through which any corrections can be made.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Creating a Modern, Diverse and Dynamic Scotland

I say to all members that questions regarding the accuracy of members’ contributions are not points of order. The content of members’ contributions are matters for the member. All members will be aware that there is a mechanism available through which any corrections can be made.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.3.1

The next item of business is consideration of two Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S6M-14535, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument, and S6M-14536, on substitution on committees. Motions moved, That the Parliament agrees that the Companies Act 2006 (Scottish public sector companies to be audited by the Auditor General for Scotland) Order 2024 [draft] be approved. That the Parliament agrees that— Jackie Dunbar be appointed to replace Stuart McMillan as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Education, Children and Young People Committee; Stuart McMillan be appointed to replace Jackie Dunbar as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee; Christine Grahame be appointed to replace Karen Adam as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee, and Gordon MacDonald be appointed to replace James Dornan as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee.—[Jamie Hepburn]

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Parliamentary Bureau Motions

The next item of business is consideration of two Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S6M-14535, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument, and S6M-14536, on substitution on committees. Motions moved, That the Parliament agrees that the Companies Act 2006 (Scottish public sector companies to be audited by the Auditor General for Scotland) Order 2024 [draft] be approved. That the Parliament agrees that— Jackie Dunbar be appointed to replace Stuart McMillan as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Education, Children and Young People Committee; Stuart McMillan be appointed to replace Jackie Dunbar as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee; Christine Grahame be appointed to replace Karen Adam as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee, and Gordon MacDonald be appointed to replace James Dornan as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee.—[Jamie Hepburn]

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.3.2

The question on those motions will be put at decision time.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Parliamentary Bureau Motions

The question on those motions will be put at decision time.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.1

There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Douglas Ross is agreed to, the amendments in the names of Anas Sarwar, Ross Greer, Alex Cole-Hamilton and Ash Regan will fall. The first question is, that amendment S6M-14524.4, in the name of Douglas Ross, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Douglas Ross is agreed to, the amendments in the names of Anas Sarwar, Ross Greer, Alex Cole-Hamilton and Ash Regan will fall. The first question is, that amendment S6M-14524.4, in the name of Douglas Ross, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.2

No.

Members:

unknown

Decision Time

No.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.3

There will be a division. The vote is closed.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

There will be a division. The vote is closed.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.4

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted no.

Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25076

Decision Time

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted no.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.5

Thank you, Mr Bibby. We will ensure that that is recorded. I see that Ms Duncan-Glancy wants to speak. I can confirm that your vote has been recorded.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

Thank you, Mr Bibby. We will ensure that that is recorded. I see that Ms Duncan-Glancy wants to speak. I can confirm that your vote has been recorded.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.7

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.4, in the name of Douglas Ross, is: For 30, Against 96, Abstentions 0. Amendmentdisagreed to.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.4, in the name of Douglas Ross, is: For 30, Against 96, Abstentions 0. Amendmentdisagreed to.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.8

I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Anas Sarwar is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Ross Greer will fall. The next question is, that amendment S6M-14524.5, in the name of Anas Sarwar, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Anas Sarwar is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Ross Greer will fall. The next question is, that amendment S6M-14524.5, in the name of Anas Sarwar, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.9

No.

Members:

unknown

Decision Time

No.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.10

There will be a division. The vote is closed.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

There will be a division. The vote is closed.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.11

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.

Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25111

Decision Time

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.12

Thank you, Mr Rennie. We will ensure that that is recorded.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

Thank you, Mr Rennie. We will ensure that that is recorded.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.14

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.5, in the name of Anas Sarwar, is: For 56, Against 70, Abstentions 0. Amendmentdisagreedto.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.5, in the name of Anas Sarwar, is: For 56, Against 70, Abstentions 0. Amendmentdisagreedto.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.15

The next question is, that amendment S6M-14524.3, in the name of Ross Greer, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The next question is, that amendment S6M-14524.3, in the name of Ross Greer, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.16

No.

Members:

unknown

Decision Time

No.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.17

There will be a division.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

There will be a division.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.19

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.3, in the name of Ross Greer, is: For 70, Against 56, Abstentions 0. Amendment agreed to.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.3, in the name of Ross Greer, is: For 70, Against 56, Abstentions 0. Amendment agreed to.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.20

The next question is, that amendment S6M-14524.2, in the name of Alex Cole-Hamilton, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The next question is, that amendment S6M-14524.2, in the name of Alex Cole-Hamilton, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.21

No.

Members:

unknown

Decision Time

No.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.22

There will be a division.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

There will be a division.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.24

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.2, in the name of Alex Cole-Hamilton, is: For 56, Against 70, Abstentions 0. Amendment disagreed to.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.2, in the name of Alex Cole-Hamilton, is: For 56, Against 70, Abstentions 0. Amendment disagreed to.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.25

The next question is, that amendment S6M-14524.1, in the name of Ash Regan, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The next question is, that amendment S6M-14524.1, in the name of Ash Regan, which seeks to amend motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.26

No.

Members:

unknown

Decision Time

No.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.27

There will be a division. The vote is closed.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

There will be a division. The vote is closed.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.28

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Despite having a trio of helpers behind me, I was not able to get reconnected. I would have voted no.

Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/14000

Decision Time

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Despite having a trio of helpers behind me, I was not able to get reconnected. I would have voted no.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.29

Thank you, Ms Grahame. We will ensure that that is recorded.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

Thank you, Ms Grahame. We will ensure that that is recorded.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.31

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.1, in the name of Ash Regan, is: For 1, Against 125, Abstentions 0. Amendment disagreed to.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The result of the division on amendment S6M-14524.1, in the name of Ash Regan, is: For 1, Against 125, Abstentions 0. Amendment disagreed to.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.32

The next question is, that motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The next question is, that motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.33

No.

Members:

unknown

Decision Time

No.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.34

There will be a division. The vote is closed.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

There will be a division. The vote is closed.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.35

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. There seems to be an issue in this part of the chamber. I would have been delighted to have voted yes.

Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13987

Decision Time

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. There seems to be an issue in this part of the chamber. I would have been delighted to have voted yes.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.36

Thank you, Mr FitzPatrick. We will ensure that that is recorded.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

Thank you, Mr FitzPatrick. We will ensure that that is recorded.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.38

The result of the division on motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, as amended, is: For 68, Against 56, Abstentions 0. Motion, as amended, agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Scottish Government should use all its powers to build a modern, diverse, dynamic nation, and further agrees that it is only with all the powers of a normal independent nation that Scotland would truly be enabled to take its own decisions to fully meet the needs of the people of Scotland and create their best future, for example, by establishing a constitutional convention to allow the people of Scotland to decide matters such as whether they wish to retain the monarchy or adopt an elected head of state, by becoming a voice for peace and rejecting nuclear weapons, by re-joining the EU, by treating asylum seekers with humanity, and by committing to fairly tax wealth and rejecting ‘trickle-down’ economics to invest in a rapid and just transition to net zero.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

The result of the division on motion S6M-14524, in the name of John Swinney, on creating a modern, diverse and dynamic Scotland, as amended, is: For 68, Against 56, Abstentions 0. Motion, as amended, agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Scottish Government should use all its powers to build a modern, diverse, dynamic nation, and further agrees that it is only with all the powers of a normal independent nation that Scotland would truly be enabled to take its own decisions to fully meet the needs of the people of Scotland and create their best future, for example, by establishing a constitutional convention to allow the people of Scotland to decide matters such as whether they wish to retain the monarchy or adopt an elected head of state, by becoming a voice for peace and rejecting nuclear weapons, by re-joining the EU, by treating asylum seekers with humanity, and by committing to fairly tax wealth and rejecting ‘trickle-down’ economics to invest in a rapid and just transition to net zero.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.39

I propose to ask a single question on two Parliamentary Bureau motions. As no member has objected, the question is, that motion S6M-14535, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument, and motion S6M-14536, on substitution on committees, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, be agreed to. Motions agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Companies Act 2006 (Scottish public sector companies to be audited by the Auditor General for Scotland) Order 2024 [draft] be approved. That the Parliament agrees that— Jackie Dunbar be appointed to replace Stuart McMillan as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Education, Children and Young People Committee; Stuart McMillan be appointed to replace Jackie Dunbar as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee; Christine Grahame be appointed to replace Karen Adam as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee, and Gordon MacDonald be appointed to replace James Dornan as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

I propose to ask a single question on two Parliamentary Bureau motions. As no member has objected, the question is, that motion S6M-14535, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument, and motion S6M-14536, on substitution on committees, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, be agreed to. Motions agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Companies Act 2006 (Scottish public sector companies to be audited by the Auditor General for Scotland) Order 2024 [draft] be approved. That the Parliament agrees that— Jackie Dunbar be appointed to replace Stuart McMillan as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Education, Children and Young People Committee; Stuart McMillan be appointed to replace Jackie Dunbar as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee; Christine Grahame be appointed to replace Karen Adam as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee, and Gordon MacDonald be appointed to replace James Dornan as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee.

5ef48c8e-9289-440c-9f21-9bacd21ebb5d

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-18.4.40

That concludes decision time. Members’ business will be published tomorrow, 19 September 2024, as soon as the text is available.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

Decision Time

That concludes decision time. Members’ business will be published tomorrow, 19 September 2024, as soon as the text is available.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.1

Good morning. The first item of business is general question time. To get in as many members as possible, I would appreciate succinct questions and answers.

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

General Question Time

Good morning. The first item of business is general question time. To get in as many members as possible, I would appreciate succinct questions and answers.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.3

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the reported reduction to the investing in communities fund and any impact on its aim of addressing poverty and disadvantage. (S6O-03741)

1. Foysol Choudhury (Lothian) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25990

General Question Time

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the reported reduction to the investing in communities fund and any impact on its aim of addressing poverty and disadvantage. (S6O-03741)

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.4

In light of financial challenges, we have taken the difficult decision to reduce the budget for the investing in communities fund by 5 per cent. I acknowledge that that presents challenges for the delivery of important projects. Officials are working closely with community organisations to jointly agree where savings can be made and to minimise the impact on project delivery.

The Minister for Employment and Investment (Tom Arthur)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25491

General Question Time

In light of financial challenges, we have taken the difficult decision to reduce the budget for the investing in communities fund by 5 per cent. I acknowledge that that presents challenges for the delivery of important projects. Officials are working closely with community organisations to jointly agree where savings can be made and to minimise the impact on project delivery.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.5

In July, third sector organisations were told, with little warning, that funding from the investing in communities fund would be cut by 5 per cent. Those organisations include the Larder in Edinburgh, which uses those funds to provide access to meals and to family and adult cookery classes. Does cutting funds for third sector organisations align with the First Minister’s priority of tackling child poverty? Can the minister confirm whether there will be further cuts to the investing in communities fund?

Foysol Choudhury

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25990

General Question Time

In July, third sector organisations were told, with little warning, that funding from the investing in communities fund would be cut by 5 per cent. Those organisations include the Larder in Edinburgh, which uses those funds to provide access to meals and to family and adult cookery classes. Does cutting funds for third sector organisations align with the First Minister’s priority of tackling child poverty? Can the minister confirm whether there will be further cuts to the investing in communities fund?

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.6

I recognise that the matter is of interest to members across the chamber, because many organisations across Scotland have benefited directly from the fund, which has enabled them to deliver valuable projects. As I said in my original answer, the decision was not taken lightly, but it reflects the exceptionally challenging public finance landscape in which we find ourselves. As I also said, my officials are, and have been, working closely with organisations that have been impacted by the decision in order to minimise the impacts. Future funding decisions will be taken as part of the budget, which the Scottish Government is scheduled to set out in December.

Tom Arthur

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25491

General Question Time

I recognise that the matter is of interest to members across the chamber, because many organisations across Scotland have benefited directly from the fund, which has enabled them to deliver valuable projects. As I said in my original answer, the decision was not taken lightly, but it reflects the exceptionally challenging public finance landscape in which we find ourselves. As I also said, my officials are, and have been, working closely with organisations that have been impacted by the decision in order to minimise the impacts. Future funding decisions will be taken as part of the budget, which the Scottish Government is scheduled to set out in December.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.8

To ask the Scottish Government what impact it anticipates the Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024 will have on local government procurement. (S6O-03742)

2. Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25073

General Question Time

To ask the Scottish Government what impact it anticipates the Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024 will have on local government procurement. (S6O-03742)

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.9

Measures that flow from the Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024, such as the co-design with local authorities of a statutory code of practice for household waste recycling and the development of a circular economy strategy, may have implications for local authority procurement. We will engage with local authorities to understand the impact on them. Procurement obligations for local authorities are covered by the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014. Under that act, local authorities have a responsibility to consider how they can improve the economic, social and environmental wellbeing of their areas.

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25527

General Question Time

Measures that flow from the Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024, such as the co-design with local authorities of a statutory code of practice for household waste recycling and the development of a circular economy strategy, may have implications for local authority procurement. We will engage with local authorities to understand the impact on them. Procurement obligations for local authorities are covered by the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014. Under that act, local authorities have a responsibility to consider how they can improve the economic, social and environmental wellbeing of their areas.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.10

I recently met Danic Lighting, which is a Glasgow-based company that one of my constituents runs. The company specialises in repairable light fittings and works with some of the world’s biggest manufacturers, which are based in China. Suppliers are reportedly manufacturing repairable lighting for electrical wholesalers across continental Europe, but not for those in the United Kingdom, and the belief is that the UK is lagging behind the European Union in implementing the right to repair and in adhering to the standard that is set by the Chartered Institution of Building Services Engineers. How is the Scottish Government maintaining and promoting the CIBSE standard in public procurement so that we are building a circular economy with the right to repair at its heart?

Clare Adamson

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25073

General Question Time

I recently met Danic Lighting, which is a Glasgow-based company that one of my constituents runs. The company specialises in repairable light fittings and works with some of the world’s biggest manufacturers, which are based in China. Suppliers are reportedly manufacturing repairable lighting for electrical wholesalers across continental Europe, but not for those in the United Kingdom, and the belief is that the UK is lagging behind the European Union in implementing the right to repair and in adhering to the standard that is set by the Chartered Institution of Building Services Engineers. How is the Scottish Government maintaining and promoting the CIBSE standard in public procurement so that we are building a circular economy with the right to repair at its heart?

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.11

Clare Adamson highlights one of the many ways in which Brexit is harming Scotland’s economy and making the reality of trade and manufacturing far more difficult for businesses. However, that is not stopping us from doing all that we can to encourage and enable innovative firms, such as Danic Lighting, to invest here in Scotland, which will create new clean and green jobs, grow our economy and create prosperity for employees and communities. I reassure Ms Adamson that the Scottish Government is alert to those issues. We are developing policy to lead by example. We are compiling guidance that is aimed at public sector organisations on circular economy lighting that uses the CIBSE standard, which will integrate circular economy principles into public sector lighting projects. That will involve input from public agencies and businesses to ensure that we get the guidance right. I would be happy to involve Danic Lighting in that process.

Ivan McKee

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25527

General Question Time

Clare Adamson highlights one of the many ways in which Brexit is harming Scotland’s economy and making the reality of trade and manufacturing far more difficult for businesses. However, that is not stopping us from doing all that we can to encourage and enable innovative firms, such as Danic Lighting, to invest here in Scotland, which will create new clean and green jobs, grow our economy and create prosperity for employees and communities. I reassure Ms Adamson that the Scottish Government is alert to those issues. We are developing policy to lead by example. We are compiling guidance that is aimed at public sector organisations on circular economy lighting that uses the CIBSE standard, which will integrate circular economy principles into public sector lighting projects. That will involve input from public agencies and businesses to ensure that we get the guidance right. I would be happy to involve Danic Lighting in that process.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.12

The reality is that the Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024 should have delivered stronger action on public procurement, but the Scottish National Party voted down my attempt to do that. Why?

Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25507

General Question Time

The reality is that the Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024 should have delivered stronger action on public procurement, but the Scottish National Party voted down my attempt to do that. Why?

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.13

The Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024 establishes a legislative framework to support Scotland’s transition to a zero waste and circular economy. It will significantly increase reuse and recycling rates and modernise and improve waste and recycling services. Procurement is an important aspect of developing a circular economy, and powers are already available under the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014. They include a sustainable procurement duty that requires contracting authorities to consider and act on opportunities to improve economic, social and environmental wellbeing. For the latest annual report on procurement activity in Scotland, 71 per cent of reporting bodies provided evidence of how they are addressing environmental wellbeing and climate change through procurement.

Ivan McKee

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25527

General Question Time

The Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024 establishes a legislative framework to support Scotland’s transition to a zero waste and circular economy. It will significantly increase reuse and recycling rates and modernise and improve waste and recycling services. Procurement is an important aspect of developing a circular economy, and powers are already available under the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014. They include a sustainable procurement duty that requires contracting authorities to consider and act on opportunities to improve economic, social and environmental wellbeing. For the latest annual report on procurement activity in Scotland, 71 per cent of reporting bodies provided evidence of how they are addressing environmental wellbeing and climate change through procurement.

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.15

To ask the Scottish Government how it is improving access to national health service dentistry for patients in the Mid Scotland and Fife region. (S6O-03743)

3. Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13951

General Question Time

To ask the Scottish Government how it is improving access to national health service dentistry for patients in the Mid Scotland and Fife region. (S6O-03743)

6057ccc8-b06a-44d2-9522-1211f322dba2

uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.16

The eligible areas for Scottish Government grants in NHS Fife have recently been reviewed and, to support access in local areas, they will be changing to Glenrothes, Kirkcaldy and Dunfermline to reflect the areas of highest need. The Scottish dental access initiative for establishing, extending or relocating practices’ premises pays up to £100,000 for the first surgery and £25,000 for subsequent surgeries. The recruitment and retention allowance pays qualifying dentists up to £37,500 in the first three years of practice.

The Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health (Jenni Minto)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26007

General Question Time

The eligible areas for Scottish Government grants in NHS Fife have recently been reviewed and, to support access in local areas, they will be changing to Glenrothes, Kirkcaldy and Dunfermline to reflect the areas of highest need. The Scottish dental access initiative for establishing, extending or relocating practices’ premises pays up to £100,000 for the first surgery and £25,000 for subsequent surgeries. The recruitment and retention allowance pays qualifying dentists up to £37,500 in the first three years of practice.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.17

Across Mid Scotland and Fife, patient lists are closed and waiting lists are extensive. When asked about future prospects, one dentist told me: “There is no single event on the horizon which gives hope for the future of NHS dentistry. I am not sure it will survive five years.” As the minister recognises, there seem to be particular issues with recruiting and retaining practitioners in Fife. Will the Government take further action such as expanding the support for rural and deprived areas or introducing incentives for practitioners, and particularly new graduates, to work in particular parts of the country?

Claire Baker

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13951

General Question Time

Across Mid Scotland and Fife, patient lists are closed and waiting lists are extensive. When asked about future prospects, one dentist told me: “There is no single event on the horizon which gives hope for the future of NHS dentistry. I am not sure it will survive five years.” As the minister recognises, there seem to be particular issues with recruiting and retaining practitioners in Fife. Will the Government take further action such as expanding the support for rural and deprived areas or introducing incentives for practitioners, and particularly new graduates, to work in particular parts of the country?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.18

The Scottish Government is working on the matter with bodies across the United Kingdom, because the issues that Claire Baker has highlighted are not specific to Scotland. Last week, I wrote to the new Minister of State for Care, Stephen Kinnock, to ask whether we could reconvene cross-Government meetings to look at how we can improve recruitment. We are also working through the General Dental Council to improve the UK workforce through recruiting international dentists. I am pleased that Mr Kinnock has responded positively to my letter and I look forward to meeting him as soon as possible. I would be happy to speak to Claire Baker further about the specific issues that she has raised regarding Fife.

Jenni Minto

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26007

General Question Time

The Scottish Government is working on the matter with bodies across the United Kingdom, because the issues that Claire Baker has highlighted are not specific to Scotland. Last week, I wrote to the new Minister of State for Care, Stephen Kinnock, to ask whether we could reconvene cross-Government meetings to look at how we can improve recruitment. We are also working through the General Dental Council to improve the UK workforce through recruiting international dentists. I am pleased that Mr Kinnock has responded positively to my letter and I look forward to meeting him as soon as possible. I would be happy to speak to Claire Baker further about the specific issues that she has raised regarding Fife.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.19

The challenges that Claire Baker outlined in her Mid Scotland and Fife region are not unique and are also experienced by my constituents in Dundee, so I am pleased that the Scottish Government has maintained a strong track record in growing Scotland’s NHS dental workforce. Will the minister provide an update on how many dentists currently operate in Scotland and how that figure compares with the figures for England and Wales under Labour Governments?

Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13987

General Question Time

The challenges that Claire Baker outlined in her Mid Scotland and Fife region are not unique and are also experienced by my constituents in Dundee, so I am pleased that the Scottish Government has maintained a strong track record in growing Scotland’s NHS dental workforce. Will the minister provide an update on how many dentists currently operate in Scotland and how that figure compares with the figures for England and Wales under Labour Governments?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.20

The latest data that is available shows that, at 31 March 2024, 3,436 dentists were operating in Scotland’s NHS. We have maintained an excellent track record in growing the NHS dental workforce in Scotland, with the same statistics showing that there are 57 dentists in Scotland per 100,000 of the population, compared with 43 in England and 46 in Wales.

Jenni Minto

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26007

General Question Time

The latest data that is available shows that, at 31 March 2024, 3,436 dentists were operating in Scotland’s NHS. We have maintained an excellent track record in growing the NHS dental workforce in Scotland, with the same statistics showing that there are 57 dentists in Scotland per 100,000 of the population, compared with 43 in England and 46 in Wales.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.22

To ask the Scottish Government when it plans to publish its review of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland, following the Auditor General for Scotland’s decision to issue a section 22 report in relation to the audit of the organisation’s accounts. (S6O-03744)

4. Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25508

General Question Time

To ask the Scottish Government when it plans to publish its review of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland, following the Auditor General for Scotland’s decision to issue a section 22 report in relation to the audit of the organisation’s accounts. (S6O-03744)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.23

The independent review of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland is not yet finalised. Once ministers have sight of its findings, we will make a decision on the exact timescales for publication.

The Acting Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Energy (Gillian Martin)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25525

General Question Time

The independent review of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland is not yet finalised. Once ministers have sight of its findings, we will make a decision on the exact timescales for publication.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.24

We need that review pretty quickly, because the evidence that we took in the Public Audit Committee this morning was damning—actually, it was astonishing. That example of the mismanagement of a public body is one of the most egregious that I have come across since I joined the Parliament. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money were spent on corporate cards. There was a toxic environment. There was a section 22 report from Audit Scotland. A chief executive officer was paid off with six months’ salary, and no one seems to know who signed that off—there is still a dispute over that. I therefore ask for some reassurances that the Scottish Government is absolutely all over the issue. We need to restore faith in public bodies, and anyone in charge of one who is found to have misused public money must go.

Jamie Greene

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25508

General Question Time

We need that review pretty quickly, because the evidence that we took in the Public Audit Committee this morning was damning—actually, it was astonishing. That example of the mismanagement of a public body is one of the most egregious that I have come across since I joined the Parliament. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money were spent on corporate cards. There was a toxic environment. There was a section 22 report from Audit Scotland. A chief executive officer was paid off with six months’ salary, and no one seems to know who signed that off—there is still a dispute over that. I therefore ask for some reassurances that the Scottish Government is absolutely all over the issue. We need to restore faith in public bodies, and anyone in charge of one who is found to have misused public money must go.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.25

I thank Jamie Greene for his comments. I am indeed all over the issue, as was the previous cabinet secretary, Màiri McAllan. I have a letter from her to the chair, Donald MacRae, which outlines her extreme disappointment to learn, first, of the Auditor General for Scotland being required to issue a section 22 report and, also, of the failings that the Auditor General had identified. I also want to mention the signing off of the settlement agreement. The former CEO resigned on 19 December, and a settlement agreement was signed by the chair on 4 January and by the former CEO on 5 January. However, the Government was not informed until we saw emails from WICS on 12 January asking for our sign-off on payment. That is not in line with the conditions and requirements set out in the Scottish public finance manual. Ms McAllan made that very clear to the chair at the time. I agree with Jamie Greene that—

Gillian Martin

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25525

General Question Time

I thank Jamie Greene for his comments. I am indeed all over the issue, as was the previous cabinet secretary, Màiri McAllan. I have a letter from her to the chair, Donald MacRae, which outlines her extreme disappointment to learn, first, of the Auditor General for Scotland being required to issue a section 22 report and, also, of the failings that the Auditor General had identified. I also want to mention the signing off of the settlement agreement. The former CEO resigned on 19 December, and a settlement agreement was signed by the chair on 4 January and by the former CEO on 5 January. However, the Government was not informed until we saw emails from WICS on 12 January asking for our sign-off on payment. That is not in line with the conditions and requirements set out in the Scottish public finance manual. Ms McAllan made that very clear to the chair at the time. I agree with Jamie Greene that—

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.26

Briefly, cabinet secretary.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

General Question Time

Briefly, cabinet secretary.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.27

—if there is anything to answer, we must act swiftly.

Gillian Martin

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25525

General Question Time

—if there is anything to answer, we must act swiftly.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.29

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the reported comments by Glasgow Disability Alliance that the disability equality plan lacks the ambition, meaningful actions or commitments needed to improve disabled people’s lives. (S6O-03745)

5. Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25492

General Question Time

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the reported comments by Glasgow Disability Alliance that the disability equality plan lacks the ambition, meaningful actions or commitments needed to improve disabled people’s lives. (S6O-03745)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.30

I greatly value the expertise and advocacy provided by disabled people’s organisations including Glasgow Disability Alliance. We are absolutely committed to improving the lives of disabled people and furthering disability equality, and we will continue to work closely with them on the disability equality plan, which is aimed at tackling systemic barriers that affect the daily lives of disabled people. We have already delivered progress by reopening the independent living fund to new applicants for the first time since 2010, investing £5 million of our equality and human rights fund to improve outcomes for disabled people, and working with energy suppliers on the co-design of a social tariff for energy.

The Minister for Equalities (Kaukab Stewart)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26014

General Question Time

I greatly value the expertise and advocacy provided by disabled people’s organisations including Glasgow Disability Alliance. We are absolutely committed to improving the lives of disabled people and furthering disability equality, and we will continue to work closely with them on the disability equality plan, which is aimed at tackling systemic barriers that affect the daily lives of disabled people. We have already delivered progress by reopening the independent living fund to new applicants for the first time since 2010, investing £5 million of our equality and human rights fund to improve outcomes for disabled people, and working with energy suppliers on the co-design of a social tariff for energy.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.31

The minister will be aware that disabled people in Scotland feel terribly let down. A sum of £10 million was taken away from changing places toilets a couple of weeks ago, and two possible bills have been put into the long grass. More than ever, the disabled community feels left behind and marginalised in society. Will the minister commit to a cross-party meeting with some of the key stakeholders, so that we can put the issue back on track and move it forward quickly?

Jeremy Balfour

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25492

General Question Time

The minister will be aware that disabled people in Scotland feel terribly let down. A sum of £10 million was taken away from changing places toilets a couple of weeks ago, and two possible bills have been put into the long grass. More than ever, the disabled community feels left behind and marginalised in society. Will the minister commit to a cross-party meeting with some of the key stakeholders, so that we can put the issue back on track and move it forward quickly?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.32

I thank Jeremy Balfour for highlighting the concerns of disabled people’s organisations, which I acknowledge. I also thank him for sharing my commitment to pursuing equality for disabled people and his offer of further engagement on a cross-party basis, which I accept. I encourage members from across parties to contact my office so that we can make that happen.

Kaukab Stewart

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26014

General Question Time

I thank Jeremy Balfour for highlighting the concerns of disabled people’s organisations, which I acknowledge. I also thank him for sharing my commitment to pursuing equality for disabled people and his offer of further engagement on a cross-party basis, which I accept. I encourage members from across parties to contact my office so that we can make that happen.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.34

To ask the Scottish Government whether it plans to develop local flood plans, including natural flood prevention measures. (S6O-03746)

6. Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25111

General Question Time

To ask the Scottish Government whether it plans to develop local flood plans, including natural flood prevention measures. (S6O-03746)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.35

Later this year, the Scottish Government will publish a flood resilience strategy, which will aim to set Scotland on a long-term course towards a sustainable level of flood resilience. The strategy will complement the statutory flood risk management planning process whereby the Scottish Environment Protection Agency produces flood risk management plans and local authorities produce local flood risk management plans every six years. The current plans are valid until 2028. The Scottish Government is supporting delivery of the actions in the plans by providing £42 million annually and an additional £150 million during this parliamentary session.

The Acting Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Energy (Gillian Martin)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25525

General Question Time

Later this year, the Scottish Government will publish a flood resilience strategy, which will aim to set Scotland on a long-term course towards a sustainable level of flood resilience. The strategy will complement the statutory flood risk management planning process whereby the Scottish Environment Protection Agency produces flood risk management plans and local authorities produce local flood risk management plans every six years. The current plans are valid until 2028. The Scottish Government is supporting delivery of the actions in the plans by providing £42 million annually and an additional £150 million during this parliamentary session.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.36

I hope that the strategy works. In recent months, my frustration and annoyance have grown, because I cannot get local authorities or SEPA to accept any responsibility for developing a flood plan for my constituency. I understand that, earlier this year, a meeting with stakeholders was held. I would like to know the outcome of that meeting. People in Cupar and beyond are watching with frustration, because absolutely nothing is happening to prevent future flooding in their area.

Willie Rennie

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25111

General Question Time

I hope that the strategy works. In recent months, my frustration and annoyance have grown, because I cannot get local authorities or SEPA to accept any responsibility for developing a flood plan for my constituency. I understand that, earlier this year, a meeting with stakeholders was held. I would like to know the outcome of that meeting. People in Cupar and beyond are watching with frustration, because absolutely nothing is happening to prevent future flooding in their area.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.37

I will be happy to provide Mr Rennie with the outcome of that meeting. Further, I ask him to get in touch with my office so that we can have a sit-down conversation about his concerns, which I can then address directly with the local authority.

Gillian Martin

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25525

General Question Time

I will be happy to provide Mr Rennie with the outcome of that meeting. Further, I ask him to get in touch with my office so that we can have a sit-down conversation about his concerns, which I can then address directly with the local authority.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.38

Can the cabinet secretary confirm that, this year, the Scottish Government will invest a record amount in flood prevention measures, despite the current financial challenges, including £39.6 million for the £48 million Millport flood prevention scheme in my constituency? That compares favourably with the figure of only £12 million that was invested across Scotland in the final year of the previous Labour-Liberal Democrat Administration.

Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/13994

General Question Time

Can the cabinet secretary confirm that, this year, the Scottish Government will invest a record amount in flood prevention measures, despite the current financial challenges, including £39.6 million for the £48 million Millport flood prevention scheme in my constituency? That compares favourably with the figure of only £12 million that was invested across Scotland in the final year of the previous Labour-Liberal Democrat Administration.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.39

The Scottish Government takes the issue of flood risk very seriously, as members will imagine. That is why we have ensured that local authorities have received all the requested funding to progress flood protection schemes. I can confirm that North Ayrshire Council received all the funding that it needs to complete construction of the Millport coastal flood protection scheme, which I understand is nearing completion. We have also invested significantly in nature-based solutions such as those for peatland restoration and woodland creation, which contribute to flood resilience alongside many other benefits across Scotland.

Gillian Martin

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25525

General Question Time

The Scottish Government takes the issue of flood risk very seriously, as members will imagine. That is why we have ensured that local authorities have received all the requested funding to progress flood protection schemes. I can confirm that North Ayrshire Council received all the funding that it needs to complete construction of the Millport coastal flood protection scheme, which I understand is nearing completion. We have also invested significantly in nature-based solutions such as those for peatland restoration and woodland creation, which contribute to flood resilience alongside many other benefits across Scotland.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.41

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to a recent report from the Scottish Health Equity Research Unit, which highlights that “Core outcomes related to inequalities and health are not improving significantly and some are getting worse”. (S6O-03747)

7. Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26010

General Question Time

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to a recent report from the Scottish Health Equity Research Unit, which highlights that “Core outcomes related to inequalities and health are not improving significantly and some are getting worse”. (S6O-03747)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.42

The Scottish Government notes the findings of the report. We are determined to tackle poverty and reduce health inequalities in Scotland, and we continue to take wide-ranging action to deliver improved outcomes for families and individuals across the country and to address the root causes of such inequality. Since 2022-23, we have allocated around £3 billion per year to tackle poverty. We are also progressing a range of actions, including those designed to reduce population health harming activities. We will continue to work with our partners to drive improvements in health, tackle poverty and embed health considerations in wider policy making. In response to significant economic challenges, such as Brexit, the pandemic, the on-going cost of living crisis and the continuing effects of the United Kingdom Government’s austerity policies, we will continue to use all the resources and powers available to us to tackle the socioeconomic drivers of ill health.

The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25293

General Question Time

The Scottish Government notes the findings of the report. We are determined to tackle poverty and reduce health inequalities in Scotland, and we continue to take wide-ranging action to deliver improved outcomes for families and individuals across the country and to address the root causes of such inequality. Since 2022-23, we have allocated around £3 billion per year to tackle poverty. We are also progressing a range of actions, including those designed to reduce population health harming activities. We will continue to work with our partners to drive improvements in health, tackle poverty and embed health considerations in wider policy making. In response to significant economic challenges, such as Brexit, the pandemic, the on-going cost of living crisis and the continuing effects of the United Kingdom Government’s austerity policies, we will continue to use all the resources and powers available to us to tackle the socioeconomic drivers of ill health.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.43

The report follows from a series of reports published by the Poverty and Inequality Commission earlier this year. Among the comments of the anti-poverty groups that responded to the programme for government were those of Save the Children, which said that there is “nothing in this programme for government that truly shifts the dial on child poverty.” It is also concerning that the SHERU report itself says: “A lack of publicly available data of sufficient quality makes it very difficult for us to assess whether policies are working or not.” Given that the Government has had to be reminded of the importance of accuracy in the model that it uses to measure progress on child poverty, and given that eradicating such poverty is the First Minister’s and the Government’s number 1 priority, is it not extremely concerning that an independent report seems to suggest that the Government does not know what is having an impact and what is not?

Paul O’Kane

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26010

General Question Time

The report follows from a series of reports published by the Poverty and Inequality Commission earlier this year. Among the comments of the anti-poverty groups that responded to the programme for government were those of Save the Children, which said that there is “nothing in this programme for government that truly shifts the dial on child poverty.” It is also concerning that the SHERU report itself says: “A lack of publicly available data of sufficient quality makes it very difficult for us to assess whether policies are working or not.” Given that the Government has had to be reminded of the importance of accuracy in the model that it uses to measure progress on child poverty, and given that eradicating such poverty is the First Minister’s and the Government’s number 1 priority, is it not extremely concerning that an independent report seems to suggest that the Government does not know what is having an impact and what is not?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.44

The suggestion that the Scottish child payment is not having an impact is demonstrably untrue. The authors of the report note: “A number of organisations, including the Scottish Government, have collected qualitative data that indicates that families who receive the payment have benefited from it.” Other experts have also underlined the impact of the Scottish child payment. For example, Tom Wernham of the Institute for Fiscal Studies has said: “The Scottish child payment will have significantly increased the incomes of people who are well below the poverty line, so even if it does not bring them past the poverty line, alleviating the depth of poverty will still be an achievement of the payment.”—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 23 May 2024; c 4.] Of course, we will continue to evaluate the impact of the policies that we introduce, but this Government is demonstrably investing in areas that will improve poverty. We need the UK Government to follow suit.

Neil Gray

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25293

General Question Time

The suggestion that the Scottish child payment is not having an impact is demonstrably untrue. The authors of the report note: “A number of organisations, including the Scottish Government, have collected qualitative data that indicates that families who receive the payment have benefited from it.” Other experts have also underlined the impact of the Scottish child payment. For example, Tom Wernham of the Institute for Fiscal Studies has said: “The Scottish child payment will have significantly increased the incomes of people who are well below the poverty line, so even if it does not bring them past the poverty line, alleviating the depth of poverty will still be an achievement of the payment.”—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 23 May 2024; c 4.] Of course, we will continue to evaluate the impact of the policies that we introduce, but this Government is demonstrably investing in areas that will improve poverty. We need the UK Government to follow suit.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.45

We have a concise question 8 from Audrey Nicoll.

The Presiding Officer

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25091

General Question Time

We have a concise question 8 from Audrey Nicoll.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.47

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to support the provision of psychotherapists. (S6O-03748)

8. Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26009

General Question Time

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to support the provision of psychotherapists. (S6O-03748)

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.48

The mental health and wellbeing strategy and its workforce action plan recognise that psychotherapists are part of the core mental health and wellbeing workforce in Scotland. They provide an important role in supporting mental health. Recruitment and training of registered mental health professionals, including psychotherapists, is a matter for employers such as national health service boards and local authorities. They make informed decisions about recruiting staff, such as psychotherapists, according to local needs, working with the relevant professional bodies and service providers. We expect employers to apply appropriate standards and frameworks when recruiting to specialisms such as psychotherapy.

The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25540

General Question Time

The mental health and wellbeing strategy and its workforce action plan recognise that psychotherapists are part of the core mental health and wellbeing workforce in Scotland. They provide an important role in supporting mental health. Recruitment and training of registered mental health professionals, including psychotherapists, is a matter for employers such as national health service boards and local authorities. They make informed decisions about recruiting staff, such as psychotherapists, according to local needs, working with the relevant professional bodies and service providers. We expect employers to apply appropriate standards and frameworks when recruiting to specialisms such as psychotherapy.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.49

Consultant medical psychotherapists play an important role in dealing with complex cases and in training and supporting other therapists. However, some of the advanced training for medical professionals who want to follow that career path is not available in Scotland. In view of the current emphasis on mental health and wellbeing—and although I recognise that the fiscal landscape is extremely challenging—can the minister outline what more can be done to support a review of training in psychotherapy and the funding provision that would enable health professionals to follow that important area of practice?

Audrey Nicoll

uk.org.publicwhip/person/26009

General Question Time

Consultant medical psychotherapists play an important role in dealing with complex cases and in training and supporting other therapists. However, some of the advanced training for medical professionals who want to follow that career path is not available in Scotland. In view of the current emphasis on mental health and wellbeing—and although I recognise that the fiscal landscape is extremely challenging—can the minister outline what more can be done to support a review of training in psychotherapy and the funding provision that would enable health professionals to follow that important area of practice?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.0.50

The Scottish Government has met the Faculty of Medical Psychotherapy to discuss the training needs. Training is an important element in the mental health and wellbeing workforce action plan, which is why we are providing NHS Education Scotland with around £30 million to continue education, training and workforce expansion for staff who support adult and children’s mental health and psychological wellbeing. That includes funding for trainees undertaking a four-year professional doctorate in child and adolescent psychoanalytic psychotherapy. Consideration of any new additional training reviews and funding requirements will be taken into account when the action plan is refreshed.

Maree Todd

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25540

General Question Time

The Scottish Government has met the Faculty of Medical Psychotherapy to discuss the training needs. Training is an important element in the mental health and wellbeing workforce action plan, which is why we are providing NHS Education Scotland with around £30 million to continue education, training and workforce expansion for staff who support adult and children’s mental health and psychological wellbeing. That includes funding for trainees undertaking a four-year professional doctorate in child and adolescent psychoanalytic psychotherapy. Consideration of any new additional training reviews and funding requirements will be taken into account when the action plan is refreshed.

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.2

In 2007, the Scottish National Party launched a skills strategy. The strategy document said: “A smarter Scotland is at the heart of everything we want to achieve for this country.” Now, 17 years on, we have the report card on the SNP’s skills strategy. This week, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development published a report that says that there are multiple barriers to developing skills in Scotland, that the SNP Government’s engagement with employers is limited in outreach and that careers agencies remain fragmented. In a damning conclusion, the OECD states that the link between the SNP’s skills policies and economic development is “weak”. Does the First Minister agree with the OECD that his Government’s record on skills, after 17 years of the SNP being in power, is weak?

1. Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25531

First Minister’s Question Time

In 2007, the Scottish National Party launched a skills strategy. The strategy document said: “A smarter Scotland is at the heart of everything we want to achieve for this country.” Now, 17 years on, we have the report card on the SNP’s skills strategy. This week, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development published a report that says that there are multiple barriers to developing skills in Scotland, that the SNP Government’s engagement with employers is limited in outreach and that careers agencies remain fragmented. In a damning conclusion, the OECD states that the link between the SNP’s skills policies and economic development is “weak”. Does the First Minister agree with the OECD that his Government’s record on skills, after 17 years of the SNP being in power, is weak?

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uk.org.publicwhip/spor/2024-09-19.1.3

Obviously, the Government will look carefully at the OECD report, but I do not agree with that conclusion. The Government has invested heavily in the skills sector over many years. Engagement with business is work that has been undertaken by a range of organisations, not least Skills Development Scotland, to ensure that we undertake skills audits in localities. That involves engaging with employers to ensure that we understand the future skills needs of individual localities and that those are provided for by the skills development system in Scotland. When we look at the outcomes that have been achieved as a consequence of our investment, we see a record number of young people going on to positive destinations as a consequence of their participation in skills development in Scotland.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

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First Minister’s Question Time

Obviously, the Government will look carefully at the OECD report, but I do not agree with that conclusion. The Government has invested heavily in the skills sector over many years. Engagement with business is work that has been undertaken by a range of organisations, not least Skills Development Scotland, to ensure that we undertake skills audits in localities. That involves engaging with employers to ensure that we understand the future skills needs of individual localities and that those are provided for by the skills development system in Scotland. When we look at the outcomes that have been achieved as a consequence of our investment, we see a record number of young people going on to positive destinations as a consequence of their participation in skills development in Scotland.

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I am sorry, but the First Minister cannot just say that he disagrees with the outcome of a report. The damning assessment of 17 years is that this Government has been weak on skills. Not surprisingly, the First Minister ended his answer by speaking about young people in positive destinations. Every year, the Government trumpets its success in the number of young people going to positive destinations, but the OECD report—which I do not believe that the First Minister has read, based on his first answer—says that “Being in a positive destination ... shortly after finishing secondary school does not guarantee positive outcomes in the long run”, and that we should be monitoring positive destinations not only after three months but after three years and even beyond. In its 2021 manifesto, the SNP pledged a young persons guarantee that would ensure that everyone between 16 and 24 years old would have the opportunity to access education, training or a job. How is that going? How many young Scottish people are currently economically inactive or not in education?

Douglas Ross

uk.org.publicwhip/person/25531

First Minister’s Question Time

I am sorry, but the First Minister cannot just say that he disagrees with the outcome of a report. The damning assessment of 17 years is that this Government has been weak on skills. Not surprisingly, the First Minister ended his answer by speaking about young people in positive destinations. Every year, the Government trumpets its success in the number of young people going to positive destinations, but the OECD report—which I do not believe that the First Minister has read, based on his first answer—says that “Being in a positive destination ... shortly after finishing secondary school does not guarantee positive outcomes in the long run”, and that we should be monitoring positive destinations not only after three months but after three years and even beyond. In its 2021 manifesto, the SNP pledged a young persons guarantee that would ensure that everyone between 16 and 24 years old would have the opportunity to access education, training or a job. How is that going? How many young Scottish people are currently economically inactive or not in education?