Transcipts_base/Behind the Scenes of Throughline .json

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        "text": " This message comes from Giving Tuesday, the world's biggest day for generosity."
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        "text": " This year it's on Tuesday, December 3."
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        "text": " While you're out there being generous, share it on social media using hashtag Giving Tuesday."
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        "text": " Research shows this will inspire others to be generous too."
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        "text": " This message comes from worldwide technology, leading the AI and digital revolution."
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    {
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        "text": " Learn more at www.wt.com."
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    {
        "start": 32.379999999999995,
        "end": 35.879999999999995,
        "text": " First, we have the music come in for the cold open."
    },
    {
        "start": 49.879999999999995,
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        "text": " Then sprinkle in some sound design to beat your interest, a little appetizer for your ears."
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        "start": 59.28,
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        "text": " And then some news tape to give you a little more context on what's happening."
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        "start": 63.78,
        "end": 70.68,
        "text": " America's Viking 1 spacecraft landed on Mars early this morning and sent back two sharp pictures of the red planet."
    },
    {
        "start": 70.68,
        "end": 72.88,
        "text": " Or maybe it's a voiceover."
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        "text": " The robot-rander touched down flawlessly this morning in a sandy desert area."
    },
    {
        "start": 77.98,
        "end": 80.08,
        "text": " Let's add a little reverb to this one."
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        "start": 80.08,
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        "text": " The Viking spaceship has landed safely on Mars seven years to the day after man first set foot on the moon."
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    {
        "start": 89.88,
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        "text": " I'm Ronda Fattah."
    },
    {
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        "end": 93.88,
        "text": " I'm Ramteen Arablui."
    },
    {
        "start": 93.88,
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        "text": " And you're listening to Thurline from NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 96.88,
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        "text": " Today on the show, behind the scenes of, well, this show."
    },
    {
        "start": 105.88,
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        "text": " Okay, so some of you listening have been with us since day one."
    },
    {
        "start": 109.88,
        "end": 111.88,
        "text": " And some of you might have just heard about this show."
    },
    {
        "start": 111.88,
        "end": 115.88,
        "text": " But whether you're a diehard fan sleeping in a Thurline t-shirt every night,"
    },
    {
        "start": 115.88,
        "end": 119.88,
        "text": " or maybe a new listener just trying to tune out the post-election news,"
    },
    {
        "start": 119.88,
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        "text": " here on this show, the team is always trying to tell stories that are informative, insightful, and entertaining."
    },
    {
        "start": 127.88,
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        "text": " So for the episode today, we're taking you behind the scenes of the show,"
    },
    {
        "start": 131.88,
        "end": 135.88,
        "text": " telling you how it was born, some of what goes into making our episodes,"
    },
    {
        "start": 135.88,
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        "text": " and a little bit about how we make our special Thurline sauce,"
    },
    {
        "start": 139.88,
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        "text": " the Thurline Riz, as the kids say."
    },
    {
        "start": 142.88,
        "end": 145.88,
        "text": " And we're cringy, which is what my non-year-old would say."
    },
    {
        "start": 145.88,
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        "text": " Anyways, we're going to give you a special behind the scenes look,"
    },
    {
        "start": 148.88,
        "end": 151.88,
        "text": " where you're here from us and from people in our team about the show"
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    {
        "start": 151.88,
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        "text": " and some of the episodes we've made."
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    {
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        "text": " By the way, these behind the scenes conversations and more already exist for our Thurline Plus subscribers."
    },
    {
        "start": 160.88,
        "end": 165.88,
        "text": " So if you're not supporting us yet, but you want more Thurline in your life, sign up now."
    },
    {
        "start": 165.88,
        "end": 170.88,
        "text": " You can find out more at plus.npr.org slash Thurline."
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    {
        "start": 170.88,
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        "text": " Coming up the origins of Thurline, or Thurline's Thurline, one of those."
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    {
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        "text": " Hi, my name is Susan Rizzoz."
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    {
        "start": 181.88,
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        "text": " You're listening to Thurline from NPR."
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    {
        "start": 184.88,
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        "text": " This message comes from Picture House, presenting porcelain war,"
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    {
        "start": 189.88,
        "end": 193.88,
        "text": " chronicling three Ukrainian artists who choose to stay in their native country,"
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        "end": 198.88,
        "text": " armed with their art, their cameras, and for the first time in their lives, their guns."
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    {
        "start": 198.88,
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        "text": " Now playing Select Cities, coming soon to a theater near you."
    },
    {
        "start": 203.88,
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        "text": " This message comes from Hulu."
    },
    {
        "start": 205.88,
        "end": 209.88,
        "text": " Dive into the new Hulu original series, Interior Chinatown."
    },
    {
        "start": 209.88,
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        "text": " From visionary filmmaker Tyco YTT, and based on the groundbreaking novel by Charles Yu,"
    },
    {
        "start": 215.88,
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        "text": " Interior Chinatown tells the comedic genre-bending story of an ordinary waiter swept up in a criminal investigation."
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        "text": " Thrust into the spotlight, he unravels long-buried family secrets and becomes an unlikely hero."
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        "text": " All episodes of the Hulu original series, Interior Chinatown, are now streaming on Hulu."
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        "text": " This message comes from Energia, where everyone can invest directly in solar energy projects"
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    {
        "start": 241.88,
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        "text": " across the world's most profitable renewable markets."
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        "text": " Since inception, Energia has helped investors realize a 12% return,"
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        "text": " It's a smart, impactful way to diversify outside the stock market with real assets."
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    {
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        "text": " Learn more at energiad.com slash NPR."
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    {
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        "text": " Pass performance is not indicative of future results."
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        "text": " All investments carry risk, including the potential loss of principle."
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    {
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        "text": " Part 1, Through Line."
    },
    {
        "start": 270.88,
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        "text": " So today, we thought it would be kind of fun to give you a behind-the-scenes look"
    },
    {
        "start": 275.88,
        "end": 277.88,
        "text": " at how the show got started."
    },
    {
        "start": 277.88,
        "end": 280.88,
        "text": " Yeah, it's our origin, the Through Line origin story."
    },
    {
        "start": 280.88,
        "end": 281.88,
        "text": " It all began."
    },
    {
        "start": 281.88,
        "end": 282.88,
        "text": " No, I'm just kidding."
    },
    {
        "start": 282.88,
        "end": 283.88,
        "text": " Okay, no."
    },
    {
        "start": 283.88,
        "end": 286.88,
        "text": " Yeah, it's like once upon a time, we got to shoot a music."
    },
    {
        "start": 286.88,
        "end": 288.88,
        "text": " Six years ago."
    },
    {
        "start": 288.88,
        "end": 289.88,
        "text": " So, no, okay."
    },
    {
        "start": 289.88,
        "end": 292.88,
        "text": " So it starts in, I think it was October of 2015."
    },
    {
        "start": 292.88,
        "end": 298.88,
        "text": " I was brought to NPR by Guy Ross, who was the host of Ted Radio Hour at the time."
    },
    {
        "start": 298.88,
        "end": 300.88,
        "text": " It's the Ted Radio Hour from NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 300.88,
        "end": 301.88,
        "text": " I'm Guy Ross."
    },
    {
        "start": 301.88,
        "end": 304.88,
        "text": " To work on a new show he was developing."
    },
    {
        "start": 304.88,
        "end": 308.88,
        "text": " And I had never worked in journalism or podcasting before."
    },
    {
        "start": 308.88,
        "end": 311.88,
        "text": " I had only worked on music for Ted Radio Hour."
    },
    {
        "start": 311.88,
        "end": 316.88,
        "text": " And Guy, I think wanted to take a chance on me and brought me in to work on a pilot for a new show."
    },
    {
        "start": 316.88,
        "end": 319.88,
        "text": " And it was really a top secret project."
    },
    {
        "start": 319.88,
        "end": 326.88,
        "text": " They sat me in the corner of the sixth floor, I think, or the fifth floor, where we were at the time at NPR headquarters."
    },
    {
        "start": 326.88,
        "end": 329.88,
        "text": " And I was just trying to figure out how to make a podcast."
    },
    {
        "start": 329.88,
        "end": 332.88,
        "text": " We had done interviews and we were just trying to figure it out."
    },
    {
        "start": 332.88,
        "end": 336.88,
        "text": " And I was kind of keeping to myself."
    },
    {
        "start": 336.88,
        "end": 338.88,
        "text": " I wasn't talking to anyone."
    },
    {
        "start": 338.88,
        "end": 343.88,
        "text": " I think for the first three or four days, I went and looked at the names of the different people that were sitting around me."
    },
    {
        "start": 343.88,
        "end": 345.88,
        "text": " And I saw one name."
    },
    {
        "start": 345.88,
        "end": 347.88,
        "text": " And the last name was Abdel Hatah."
    },
    {
        "start": 347.88,
        "end": 350.88,
        "text": " And I was like, that sounds like an Afhan name."
    },
    {
        "start": 350.88,
        "end": 354.88,
        "text": " Or I don't know maybe, your Iranian name, that's kind of, you know, I was like, oh, I wonder who this person is."
    },
    {
        "start": 354.88,
        "end": 358.88,
        "text": " And a few days later, someone started sitting at that desk."
    },
    {
        "start": 358.88,
        "end": 359.88,
        "text": " And it was run."
    },
    {
        "start": 359.88,
        "end": 362.88,
        "text": " And I was like super intimidated to talk to you."
    },
    {
        "start": 362.88,
        "end": 366.88,
        "text": " I was like, who is this, you like, you dress, I don't know, I thought you kind of dressed."
    },
    {
        "start": 366.88,
        "end": 367.88,
        "text": " You're a miopster."
    },
    {
        "start": 367.88,
        "end": 368.88,
        "text": " You're a Muslim hipster."
    },
    {
        "start": 368.88,
        "end": 375.88,
        "text": " This is so funny because like legit, like nobody in my life has ever, ever, ever told me that my fashion or..."
    },
    {
        "start": 375.88,
        "end": 378.88,
        "text": " I was like, I thought you were like too cool for school."
    },
    {
        "start": 378.88,
        "end": 379.88,
        "text": " Cool enough to be true."
    },
    {
        "start": 379.88,
        "end": 382.88,
        "text": " I was like, no, I was like, shut up and say hi to her."
    },
    {
        "start": 382.88,
        "end": 383.88,
        "text": " I'll take it."
    },
    {
        "start": 383.88,
        "end": 386.88,
        "text": " She's like, no, she's not gonna be like, who the hell are you?"
    },
    {
        "start": 386.88,
        "end": 395.88,
        "text": " And I don't know how or who approached you first, but eventually we started talking to each other and like became friends."
    },
    {
        "start": 395.88,
        "end": 398.88,
        "text": " And honestly, I don't even remember how we became friends."
    },
    {
        "start": 398.88,
        "end": 399.88,
        "text": " Yeah."
    },
    {
        "start": 399.88,
        "end": 400.88,
        "text": " We were just suddenly friends."
    },
    {
        "start": 400.88,
        "end": 401.88,
        "text": " It's like..."
    },
    {
        "start": 401.88,
        "end": 404.88,
        "text": " Yeah, I think we just started having lunch together and talking."
    },
    {
        "start": 404.88,
        "end": 408.88,
        "text": " Like for a little context, I had been at NPR for a few years at that point."
    },
    {
        "start": 408.88,
        "end": 413.88,
        "text": " I'd been kind of jumping around working on different pilots for podcasts and things like that."
    },
    {
        "start": 414.88,
        "end": 423.88,
        "text": " And eventually by the time that I'm team got there, I was sort of like ANSI to also do something new."
    },
    {
        "start": 423.88,
        "end": 433.88,
        "text": " And you know, once we got to talking, it was crazy fast how quickly we started talking about the idea for what would become through line."
    },
    {
        "start": 433.88,
        "end": 442.88,
        "text": " We were just sort of naturally talking about history a lot, talking about religion and politics and all the things that are supposedly off limits."
    },
    {
        "start": 443.88,
        "end": 447.88,
        "text": " To talk about those were like our natural first topics of conversation."
    },
    {
        "start": 447.88,
        "end": 453.88,
        "text": " And I think partly it was because we both have these immigrant backgrounds and coming from the Middle East."
    },
    {
        "start": 453.88,
        "end": 459.88,
        "text": " There was just a lot of like shared history of like personal history for us."
    },
    {
        "start": 459.88,
        "end": 471.88,
        "text": " And we had the idea of doing something that was like creatively different experimental and sound that would also help explain the present through the history of the Middle East."
    },
    {
        "start": 471.88,
        "end": 478.88,
        "text": " And we had no idea how you actually take an idea and make it into like a reality."
    },
    {
        "start": 478.88,
        "end": 483.88,
        "text": " But we decided to bring the idea to my boss at the time."
    },
    {
        "start": 483.88,
        "end": 486.88,
        "text": " And we got our shot to make a pilot episode."
    },
    {
        "start": 486.88,
        "end": 489.88,
        "text": " Yeah, I mean, we kind of got a shot."
    },
    {
        "start": 489.88,
        "end": 493.88,
        "text": " Like, all we got was like, okay, yeah, I know."
    },
    {
        "start": 493.88,
        "end": 497.88,
        "text": " Basically, he was like, your boss is a nice guy."
    },
    {
        "start": 497.88,
        "end": 500.88,
        "text": " He was a nice guy. He still isn't a nice guy."
    },
    {
        "start": 500.88,
        "end": 503.88,
        "text": " And he was kind of like, yeah, you can use the studio if you want."
    },
    {
        "start": 503.88,
        "end": 507.88,
        "text": " And let me know if you need a little couple bucks to rent a studio time or whatever."
    },
    {
        "start": 507.88,
        "end": 509.88,
        "text": " And we kind of went off."
    },
    {
        "start": 509.88,
        "end": 512.88,
        "text": " And probably he didn't have any idea like what we were about to do."
    },
    {
        "start": 512.88,
        "end": 514.88,
        "text": " But we just started."
    },
    {
        "start": 514.88,
        "end": 515.88,
        "text": " Yeah, that's it."
    },
    {
        "start": 515.88,
        "end": 517.88,
        "text": " We started just making it honestly on our street."
    },
    {
        "start": 517.88,
        "end": 524.88,
        "text": " The other thing that had left out is that by this time, the pilot I was working on became how I built this."
    },
    {
        "start": 525.88,
        "end": 528.88,
        "text": " From NPR, it's how I built this."
    },
    {
        "start": 528.88,
        "end": 534.88,
        "text": " A show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built."
    },
    {
        "start": 534.88,
        "end": 540.88,
        "text": " And run is now kind of like under the table working on how I built this, like producing for the show."
    },
    {
        "start": 540.88,
        "end": 542.88,
        "text": " I realize to say this on the way."
    },
    {
        "start": 542.88,
        "end": 544.88,
        "text": " Yeah, we're going to say this because this is so long ago now."
    },
    {
        "start": 544.88,
        "end": 550.88,
        "text": " Because I was working on it and run was like, like she said, looking for something new or whatever."
    },
    {
        "start": 550.88,
        "end": 552.88,
        "text": " And I was like, yeah, let's work together on this thing."
    },
    {
        "start": 553.88,
        "end": 555.88,
        "text": " We were buddies and we both started producing."
    },
    {
        "start": 555.88,
        "end": 559.88,
        "text": " We're basically the first two producers and also Casey Herman who's still there now."
    },
    {
        "start": 559.88,
        "end": 562.88,
        "text": " We're basically producing that show like the first year and having a blast."
    },
    {
        "start": 562.88,
        "end": 563.88,
        "text": " I think working together."
    },
    {
        "start": 563.88,
        "end": 565.88,
        "text": " That was the other thing that brought us together."
    },
    {
        "start": 565.88,
        "end": 566.88,
        "text": " Like we're in the studio together."
    },
    {
        "start": 566.88,
        "end": 568.88,
        "text": " We're like doing all the things."
    },
    {
        "start": 568.88,
        "end": 573.88,
        "text": " And so we were also making what would become do light on the side."
    },
    {
        "start": 573.88,
        "end": 576.88,
        "text": " We were going and doing interviews at like places."
    },
    {
        "start": 576.88,
        "end": 579.88,
        "text": " We're acting like I think you know how to say fake it to you."
    },
    {
        "start": 579.88,
        "end": 581.88,
        "text": " We were definitely faking it."
    },
    {
        "start": 581.88,
        "end": 582.88,
        "text": " Like at that."
    },
    {
        "start": 582.88,
        "end": 584.88,
        "text": " Yeah, we were like, what is this even going to sound like?"
    },
    {
        "start": 584.88,
        "end": 586.88,
        "text": " I mean, just figuring out what are we going to sound like?"
    },
    {
        "start": 586.88,
        "end": 589.88,
        "text": " We were never hosts before."
    },
    {
        "start": 589.88,
        "end": 592.88,
        "text": " So it was like we were learning as we went everything."
    },
    {
        "start": 592.88,
        "end": 597.88,
        "text": " We definitely had some interviews that you know, I wouldn't want to revisit."
    },
    {
        "start": 597.88,
        "end": 598.88,
        "text": " You go so well."
    },
    {
        "start": 598.88,
        "end": 599.88,
        "text": " I didn't know so well."
    },
    {
        "start": 599.88,
        "end": 604.88,
        "text": " But honestly, it was just sort of a process of like, all right, you just got to like keep at it."
    },
    {
        "start": 604.88,
        "end": 606.88,
        "text": " Listen, figure out what sounds good."
    },
    {
        "start": 606.88,
        "end": 608.88,
        "text": " Like, what is this going to sound like?"
    },
    {
        "start": 608.88,
        "end": 609.88,
        "text": " What is this going to be?"
    },
    {
        "start": 609.88,
        "end": 613.88,
        "text": " And then we eventually ended up with like the first pilot episode,"
    },
    {
        "start": 613.88,
        "end": 618.88,
        "text": " which was actually not the first episode that is in the feed."
    },
    {
        "start": 618.88,
        "end": 626.88,
        "text": " And here is where begins a passion story that is equal in power in Islam"
    },
    {
        "start": 626.88,
        "end": 630.88,
        "text": " to the passion of the Christ in Christianity."
    },
    {
        "start": 630.88,
        "end": 632.88,
        "text": " Takes three weeks to travel."
    },
    {
        "start": 632.88,
        "end": 636.88,
        "text": " It was an episode that ended up being called the War of the Worlds."
    },
    {
        "start": 636.88,
        "end": 640.88,
        "text": " And it was about the history of the Sunnisia divide in Islam"
    },
    {
        "start": 640.88,
        "end": 643.88,
        "text": " and came from like a personal place for both of us."
    },
    {
        "start": 643.88,
        "end": 644.88,
        "text": " And we were like, you know what?"
    },
    {
        "start": 644.88,
        "end": 649.88,
        "text": " Let's really infuse ourselves into the show so that they don't think anybody else can host it."
    },
    {
        "start": 649.88,
        "end": 650.88,
        "text": " Yes, we're worried about it."
    },
    {
        "start": 650.88,
        "end": 652.88,
        "text": " Because you know, we're producers."
    },
    {
        "start": 652.88,
        "end": 655.88,
        "text": " And you know, in terms of the production side of things, we had that covered"
    },
    {
        "start": 655.88,
        "end": 660.88,
        "text": " but we wanted to make sure that nobody would kind of step in and host instead of us."
    },
    {
        "start": 660.88,
        "end": 662.88,
        "text": " And Tarantino's credit, you know, he was like, hell no."
    },
    {
        "start": 662.88,
        "end": 665.88,
        "text": " Nobody's going to come in and like, chair in this show into something else."
    },
    {
        "start": 665.88,
        "end": 667.88,
        "text": " Like we came up with the idea we're making it."
    },
    {
        "start": 667.88,
        "end": 672.88,
        "text": " And it was really just like the two of us doing everything for the first like year."
    },
    {
        "start": 672.88,
        "end": 676.88,
        "text": " And then we, at one point, we're working on another pilot"
    },
    {
        "start": 676.88,
        "end": 680.88,
        "text": " because they wanted us to do a couple more pilots to really like get some experience under a belt."
    },
    {
        "start": 680.88,
        "end": 683.88,
        "text": " And before we do, you say that, you should talk about what happened when we played the..."
    },
    {
        "start": 683.88,
        "end": 684.88,
        "text": " That's right, that's right."
    },
    {
        "start": 684.88,
        "end": 687.88,
        "text": " So before they told us to go off and make more pilots,"
    },
    {
        "start": 687.88,
        "end": 693.88,
        "text": " we had to actually like play this first pilot episode, War of the Worlds for my boss at the time."
    },
    {
        "start": 696.88,
        "end": 701.88,
        "text": " So we like booked a studio and PR headquarters."
    },
    {
        "start": 701.88,
        "end": 707.88,
        "text": " We like dimmed the lights and we sat in there with my boss and just played it."
    },
    {
        "start": 707.88,
        "end": 713.88,
        "text": " And around maybe 40 or 45 minutes, however long it was later,"
    },
    {
        "start": 713.88,
        "end": 718.88,
        "text": " he, you know, we turned on the lights and he's like, wow, like there's something here."
    },
    {
        "start": 718.88,
        "end": 720.88,
        "text": " Like this is really good."
    },
    {
        "start": 720.88,
        "end": 721.88,
        "text": " The quote is..."
    },
    {
        "start": 721.88,
        "end": 722.88,
        "text": " I don't remember the quote."
    },
    {
        "start": 722.88,
        "end": 723.88,
        "text": " He said, this is the future."
    },
    {
        "start": 723.88,
        "end": 725.88,
        "text": " I just heard the future of NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 725.88,
        "end": 726.88,
        "text": " Future of NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 726.88,
        "end": 727.88,
        "text": " Future of NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 727.88,
        "end": 728.88,
        "text": " Future of NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 728.88,
        "end": 731.88,
        "text": " Which was like..."
    },
    {
        "start": 731.88,
        "end": 732.88,
        "text": " Is that what he said?"
    },
    {
        "start": 732.88,
        "end": 734.88,
        "text": " Yeah, he's like, this is the future of NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 734.88,
        "end": 735.88,
        "text": " Yes, I heard him say that."
    },
    {
        "start": 735.88,
        "end": 736.88,
        "text": " I think I was so like..."
    },
    {
        "start": 736.88,
        "end": 738.88,
        "text": " It was so nice."
    },
    {
        "start": 738.88,
        "end": 739.88,
        "text": " Because like how..."
    },
    {
        "start": 739.88,
        "end": 741.88,
        "text": " We had no idea what he was going to say."
    },
    {
        "start": 741.88,
        "end": 743.88,
        "text": " And he's not like a b-ecer."
    },
    {
        "start": 743.88,
        "end": 746.88,
        "text": " Like if he didn't like it, he wouldn't have been mean about it,"
    },
    {
        "start": 746.88,
        "end": 748.88,
        "text": " but he would have not responded like that."
    },
    {
        "start": 748.88,
        "end": 751.88,
        "text": " If he had been like, oh, and this is like I worked, you know,"
    },
    {
        "start": 751.88,
        "end": 754.88,
        "text": " had worked on Radio Lab, like working with them in the past."
    },
    {
        "start": 754.88,
        "end": 755.88,
        "text": " I've been at WMIC."
    },
    {
        "start": 755.88,
        "end": 757.88,
        "text": " He had like a lot of experience."
    },
    {
        "start": 757.88,
        "end": 760.88,
        "text": " So if he didn't think there was anything to it, he wouldn't have said that."
    },
    {
        "start": 760.88,
        "end": 761.88,
        "text": " Yeah."
    },
    {
        "start": 761.88,
        "end": 762.88,
        "text": " So it was like really exciting."
    },
    {
        "start": 762.88,
        "end": 763.88,
        "text": " That was so validating."
    },
    {
        "start": 763.88,
        "end": 764.88,
        "text": " Yeah."
    },
    {
        "start": 764.88,
        "end": 766.88,
        "text": " Because otherwise we were just sort of like in our little like, you know,"
    },
    {
        "start": 766.88,
        "end": 769.88,
        "text": " keep in mind we're working on this like in the evenings and on the weekends,"
    },
    {
        "start": 769.88,
        "end": 772.88,
        "text": " like in between our day job of making out about this."
    },
    {
        "start": 772.88,
        "end": 773.88,
        "text": " Yeah."
    },
    {
        "start": 773.88,
        "end": 776.88,
        "text": " And so, you know, this was like super validating for us because we were like,"
    },
    {
        "start": 776.88,
        "end": 779.88,
        "text": " okay, it's not just us who thinks there's something here."
    },
    {
        "start": 779.88,
        "end": 782.88,
        "text": " And outside perspective is actually telling us like, no, there's something here."
    },
    {
        "start": 782.88,
        "end": 787.88,
        "text": " And then that's at the ball in motion for us to make a few more pilot episodes"
    },
    {
        "start": 787.88,
        "end": 791.88,
        "text": " over the next year and a year, year and a half or so."
    },
    {
        "start": 791.88,
        "end": 797.88,
        "text": " And while I remember we were working on one episode about the history of US North Korea"
    },
    {
        "start": 797.88,
        "end": 803.88,
        "text": " and Lauren Swoo who is still a producer on the show to this day overheard us."
    },
    {
        "start": 803.88,
        "end": 807.88,
        "text": " And he was at the time, I think an intern on how I built this."
    },
    {
        "start": 807.88,
        "end": 810.88,
        "text": " And he was like, no, what are you guys talking about?"
    },
    {
        "start": 810.88,
        "end": 812.88,
        "text": " Hey, what are you all talking about?"
    },
    {
        "start": 812.88,
        "end": 818.88,
        "text": " We were like, oh, we're working on this like show that we're hoping we'll get Greenlit."
    },
    {
        "start": 818.88,
        "end": 820.88,
        "text": " And he's like, really?"
    },
    {
        "start": 820.88,
        "end": 822.88,
        "text": " Can I work on this?"
    },
    {
        "start": 822.88,
        "end": 823.88,
        "text": " You know what?"
    },
    {
        "start": 823.88,
        "end": 824.88,
        "text": " I want in."
    },
    {
        "start": 824.88,
        "end": 829.88,
        "text": " And Lauren just jumped in to the trenches with us and started like booking and researching"
    },
    {
        "start": 829.88,
        "end": 830.88,
        "text": " and doing all this stuff."
    },
    {
        "start": 830.88,
        "end": 835.88,
        "text": " And so it was the three of us at that point just working on this what had begun"
    },
    {
        "start": 835.88,
        "end": 837.88,
        "text": " as kind of a pipe dream."
    },
    {
        "start": 837.88,
        "end": 844.88,
        "text": " And it was, it was a lot of long nights, a lot of work, a lot of work went into those early years"
    },
    {
        "start": 844.88,
        "end": 849.88,
        "text": " even before the show went out into the world kind of crazy to think about it."
    },
    {
        "start": 849.88,
        "end": 850.88,
        "text": " Yeah."
    },
    {
        "start": 850.88,
        "end": 852.88,
        "text": " You're listening to Threw Line."
    },
    {
        "start": 852.88,
        "end": 854.88,
        "text": " Where we go back in time."
    },
    {
        "start": 854.88,
        "end": 857.88,
        "text": " To understand the present."
    },
    {
        "start": 857.88,
        "end": 859.88,
        "text": " It was a lot of work."
    },
    {
        "start": 859.88,
        "end": 862.88,
        "text": " We had a lot of champions on the inside of people who really supported us."
    },
    {
        "start": 862.88,
        "end": 863.88,
        "text": " Totally."
    },
    {
        "start": 863.88,
        "end": 868.88,
        "text": " Nigel Eaton, of course, Agnya Grunman, folks here at MPR really supported us in the teams"
    },
    {
        "start": 868.88,
        "end": 869.88,
        "text": " that we were working on supported us."
    },
    {
        "start": 869.88,
        "end": 872.88,
        "text": " But it was a long journey that really was born out of our friendship."
    },
    {
        "start": 872.88,
        "end": 876.88,
        "text": " And I think the thing I hope folks that are listening to the show still hear that"
    },
    {
        "start": 876.88,
        "end": 881.88,
        "text": " because I think the show wouldn't have not existed if we weren't friends first,"
    },
    {
        "start": 881.88,
        "end": 885.88,
        "text": " I think, and really like enjoyed working with each other because it was really hard."
    },
    {
        "start": 885.88,
        "end": 887.88,
        "text": " But I really wanted to do it for you."
    },
    {
        "start": 887.88,
        "end": 889.88,
        "text": " And I think you really wanted to do it for me."
    },
    {
        "start": 889.88,
        "end": 894.88,
        "text": " And I think that's the thing that sustained the show through that difficult..."
    },
    {
        "start": 894.88,
        "end": 899.88,
        "text": " I mean, to sustain our effort through that difficult time and to sustain the show to this day."
    },
    {
        "start": 899.88,
        "end": 902.88,
        "text": " So hopefully listeners can really hear that."
    },
    {
        "start": 902.88,
        "end": 904.88,
        "text": " I'm sorry, I'm getting on Emo."
    },
    {
        "start": 904.88,
        "end": 905.88,
        "text": " That's so nice."
    },
    {
        "start": 905.88,
        "end": 906.88,
        "text": " I'm getting on Emo on Y'all."
    },
    {
        "start": 906.88,
        "end": 907.88,
        "text": " But it's true."
    },
    {
        "start": 907.88,
        "end": 909.88,
        "text": " No, it's true because when you're like..."
    },
    {
        "start": 909.88,
        "end": 910.88,
        "text": " And you hit obstacles."
    },
    {
        "start": 910.88,
        "end": 913.88,
        "text": " We hit a lot of obstacles along the way."
    },
    {
        "start": 913.88,
        "end": 917.88,
        "text": " And it's really hard to keep yourself motivated in the face of like setbacks"
    },
    {
        "start": 917.88,
        "end": 920.88,
        "text": " and also have like daunting amount of work on your plate."
    },
    {
        "start": 920.88,
        "end": 924.88,
        "text": " Like I was about to curse, but I'm keeping it in a PG over here."
    },
    {
        "start": 924.88,
        "end": 928.88,
        "text": " But you know, it's like it's really hard to kind of sustain that passion."
    },
    {
        "start": 928.88,
        "end": 930.88,
        "text": " And I think..."
    },
    {
        "start": 930.88,
        "end": 933.88,
        "text": " Yeah, I think our connection is foundational to everything."
    },
    {
        "start": 933.88,
        "end": 940.88,
        "text": " And I think we've been lucky, you know, now over the last like few years"
    },
    {
        "start": 940.88,
        "end": 945.88,
        "text": " to expand the team with other people who are able to like really believe in that same vision"
    },
    {
        "start": 945.88,
        "end": 947.88,
        "text": " that we had at the beginning."
    },
    {
        "start": 947.88,
        "end": 952.88,
        "text": " It's like kind of wild actually, I think, right, for both of us to think that like people now believe in the show enough"
    },
    {
        "start": 952.88,
        "end": 955.88,
        "text": " that they want to come and want to like take it to the next level."
    },
    {
        "start": 955.88,
        "end": 960.88,
        "text": " Like we're constantly trying to push ourselves in terms of the sound of the show,"
    },
    {
        "start": 960.88,
        "end": 965.88,
        "text": " in terms of the ideas of the show, in terms of all kind of everything about the show we wanted"
    },
    {
        "start": 965.88,
        "end": 969.88,
        "text": " to just be a reflection of the way that the team is evolving too."
    },
    {
        "start": 969.88,
        "end": 974.88,
        "text": " And so a lot of the great ideas and the way that the show evolved has been a reflection."
    },
    {
        "start": 974.88,
        "end": 977.88,
        "text": " And it has been a reflection of the people who've come onto the team."
    },
    {
        "start": 977.88,
        "end": 980.88,
        "text": " And that's thanks to all of you who listen, who are listening to this now."
    },
    {
        "start": 980.88,
        "end": 985.88,
        "text": " We had no idea that as many people would listen or be passionate about this show."
    },
    {
        "start": 985.88,
        "end": 987.88,
        "text": " And we're really grateful to all of you for listening."
    },
    {
        "start": 987.88,
        "end": 988.88,
        "text": " Yeah, thank you so much."
    },
    {
        "start": 988.88,
        "end": 991.88,
        "text": " Yeah, and hopefully hearing about the origins of this show, I don't know,"
    },
    {
        "start": 991.88,
        "end": 993.88,
        "text": " give you a little bit entertainment."
    },
    {
        "start": 993.88,
        "end": 995.88,
        "text": " Give you a little break from the day."
    },
    {
        "start": 999.88,
        "end": 1001.88,
        "text": " We hope you enjoyed our conversation."
    },
    {
        "start": 1001.88,
        "end": 1005.88,
        "text": " And in a way, it's kind of like how I built this episode,"
    },
    {
        "start": 1005.88,
        "end": 1008.88,
        "text": " turning our pipe dream into the show it is today."
    },
    {
        "start": 1010.88,
        "end": 1018.88,
        "text": " Coming up, what it takes to find and produce a story with people that have lived through a historical event."
    },
    {
        "start": 1019.88,
        "end": 1023.88,
        "text": " This is Michael's coming from Savannah Georgia and listening through us from NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 1023.88,
        "end": 1027.88,
        "text": " I appreciate the commissions that you both make from the past to help us understand the present."
    },
    {
        "start": 1027.88,
        "end": 1029.88,
        "text": " And hopefully look for a better future."
    },
    {
        "start": 1029.88,
        "end": 1030.88,
        "text": " Thank you."
    },
    {
        "start": 1030.88,
        "end": 1036.88,
        "text": " This message comes from Capital One, offering commercial solutions you can bank on."
    },
    {
        "start": 1036.88,
        "end": 1039.88,
        "text": " Now more than ever, your business faces you."
    },
    {
        "start": 1040.88,
        "end": 1045.88,
        "text": " This message comes from Capital One, offering commercial solutions you can bank on."
    },
    {
        "start": 1045.88,
        "end": 1050.88,
        "text": " Now more than ever, your business faces unique challenges and opportunities."
    },
    {
        "start": 1050.88,
        "end": 1054.88,
        "text": " That's why Capital One offers a comprehensive suite of financial services,"
    },
    {
        "start": 1054.88,
        "end": 1061.88,
        "text": " all tailored to your short and long-term goals, backed by the strength and stability of a top 10 commercial bank."
    },
    {
        "start": 1061.88,
        "end": 1065.88,
        "text": " Their dedicated experts work with you to build lasting success."
    },
    {
        "start": 1066.88,
        "end": 1072.88,
        "text": " Explore the possibilities at capitalone.com slash commercial, a member FDIC."
    },
    {
        "start": 1072.88,
        "end": 1075.88,
        "text": " This message comes from Bowling Branch."
    },
    {
        "start": 1075.88,
        "end": 1078.88,
        "text": " Bowling Branch's best sale of the year is right now."
    },
    {
        "start": 1078.88,
        "end": 1080.88,
        "text": " Try the organic cotton sheets loved by millions."
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    {
        "start": 1080.88,
        "end": 1086.88,
        "text": " Go to BowlingBranch.com and use code NPR for 25% off everything."
    },
    {
        "start": 1086.88,
        "end": 1089.88,
        "text": " Limited time only, exclusion supply, seaside for details."
    },
    {
        "start": 1089.88,
        "end": 1093.88,
        "text": " This message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta Stone,"
    },
    {
        "start": 1093.88,
        "end": 1096.88,
        "text": " an expert in language learning for 30 years."
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    {
        "start": 1096.88,
        "end": 1104.88,
        "text": " Right now, NPR listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership to 25 different languages for 50% off."
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        "start": 1104.88,
        "end": 1108.88,
        "text": " Learn more at RosettaStone.com slash NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 1108.88,
        "end": 1112.88,
        "text": " Part 2. Living History"
    },
    {
        "start": 1112.88,
        "end": 1118.88,
        "text": " So a lot of what we do it through line takes us to far away places in the distant past."
    },
    {
        "start": 1118.88,
        "end": 1125.88,
        "text": " But sometimes we get to tell stories about living history and get to talk to the people who were actually there."
    },
    {
        "start": 1125.88,
        "end": 1129.88,
        "text": " We were in our red truck and we were coming back from the ocean."
    },
    {
        "start": 1129.88,
        "end": 1139.88,
        "text": " And all of a sudden we came upon these big yellow caution signs that said caution, PCB chemicals spilled along roadways."
    },
    {
        "start": 1140.88,
        "end": 1149.88,
        "text": " PCBs, otherwise known as polychlorinated by phenols, are man-made industrial chemicals used in factories."
    },
    {
        "start": 1149.88,
        "end": 1156.88,
        "text": " Their highly toxic can cause skin lesions and are associated with several kinds of cancer."
    },
    {
        "start": 1156.88,
        "end": 1165.88,
        "text": " I saw it on the side of the highway. It looked greasy. It was substance there that I knew that shouldn't be there."
    },
    {
        "start": 1166.88,
        "end": 1173.88,
        "text": " What happened next turned a small world North Carolina community into the birthplace of the environmental justice movement."
    },
    {
        "start": 1173.88,
        "end": 1178.88,
        "text": " A movement that seeks to ensure an equitable and healthy environment for everyone."
    },
    {
        "start": 1178.88,
        "end": 1183.88,
        "text": " The helicopter's flying all over. I just couldn't leave it."
    },
    {
        "start": 1183.88,
        "end": 1191.88,
        "text": " As we approached the landfill, there were power patrolmen in full right gear, facials, baton and hane."
    },
    {
        "start": 1191.88,
        "end": 1194.88,
        "text": " We didn't know whether they were going to be just or what."
    },
    {
        "start": 1194.88,
        "end": 1205.88,
        "text": " In this next conversation, you'll be hearing from producers Lawrence Wu and Devon Kateyama about the making of our episode two miles down the road. Here's Lawrence."
    },
    {
        "start": 1205.88,
        "end": 1210.88,
        "text": " So I want to ask you though, how do you find this story and why'd you pitch this?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1210.88,
        "end": 1220.88,
        "text": " Yeah, so basically when I think about pitches, I kind of just take time to sit quietly and try to think about what in the world is going on."
    },
    {
        "start": 1221.88,
        "end": 1225.88,
        "text": " What are the big stories? How am I feeling about the world?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1225.88,
        "end": 1229.88,
        "text": " I kind of just follow my interest and I think a lot of us producers on the show do that."
    },
    {
        "start": 1229.88,
        "end": 1234.88,
        "text": " So one thing that came to mind was this term environmental justice."
    },
    {
        "start": 1234.88,
        "end": 1238.88,
        "text": " It's a term that I've been hearing for a really long time."
    },
    {
        "start": 1238.88,
        "end": 1243.88,
        "text": " To some degree, I reported on as a reporter in my previous job."
    },
    {
        "start": 1243.88,
        "end": 1249.88,
        "text": " But it's a term I also feel like carries a lot of weight and means a lot of different things to a lot of different people."
    },
    {
        "start": 1249.88,
        "end": 1254.88,
        "text": " And so like we do on this show, you kind of just start like what is the history of X?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1254.88,
        "end": 1257.88,
        "text": " What is the history of environmental justice?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1257.88,
        "end": 1273.88,
        "text": " And so I originally thought of doing this whole episode where we kind of look at the very beginning decades ago and bring it all the way up to how it's become such a messy, interesting, important topic today."
    },
    {
        "start": 1274.88,
        "end": 1281.88,
        "text": " You were talking about when we made the story, some compelling was the people that were involved in the movement."
    },
    {
        "start": 1281.88,
        "end": 1288.88,
        "text": " And I think that's one of the cool things about this episode working on this with you is that we talked to people who have this lived history."
    },
    {
        "start": 1288.88,
        "end": 1292.88,
        "text": " And so before we get more into that, how did you find these guests? How did you track them down?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1292.88,
        "end": 1298.88,
        "text": " Because they're not, that's not like they're our typical scholar historian with their university email out there."
    },
    {
        "start": 1299.88,
        "end": 1307.88,
        "text": " Right, right, right. Well, that's actually, so that's one of the cool things about this story, like you said, and we don't do too many stories, you know, more modern, more recent history."
    },
    {
        "start": 1307.88,
        "end": 1317.88,
        "text": " So a lot of our, the people who we talk about are long gone, but in this particular case, you know, they're still around, they're still like advocating for environmental justice issues."
    },
    {
        "start": 1317.88,
        "end": 1322.88,
        "text": " So they're easy to find in that they're still writing, they're still a spokespeople."
    },
    {
        "start": 1323.88,
        "end": 1333.88,
        "text": " And they're from a really small town. I mean, Warren County itself is a pretty big county, but the often and the place where this happened is really small."
    },
    {
        "start": 1333.88,
        "end": 1340.88,
        "text": " So I kind of just followed the trail, the 40th anniversary of this event happened in 2022."
    },
    {
        "start": 1340.88,
        "end": 1345.88,
        "text": " And so I knew names of people who had been on panels who had recently talked about this."
    },
    {
        "start": 1345.88,
        "end": 1352.88,
        "text": " And I found a local reverend there who was on one of these panels reached out to him. He was very quick to respond to me."
    },
    {
        "start": 1352.88,
        "end": 1373.88,
        "text": " And if this means that we have to bother less than in front of trucks, bulldozers, road scrapers, even give up our lives so that someone else can live many years in the future, I say it is our duty to sacrifice that."
    },
    {
        "start": 1374.88,
        "end": 1381.88,
        "text": " After I got reverend Willie T. Ramy's contact, it was really easy to find most of the people who are in this episode."
    },
    {
        "start": 1381.88,
        "end": 1386.88,
        "text": " Yeah, it just sounds like he's just super connected in terms of that local network."
    },
    {
        "start": 1386.88,
        "end": 1394.88,
        "text": " And like everybody in the area knows of each other, right? So it's one of those, you find one person, it's really easy to find the rest."
    },
    {
        "start": 1394.88,
        "end": 1405.88,
        "text": " Except I will tell you I had trouble finding the Frutios who are very much important and featured in this episode. So that was kind of an interesting story, finding them."
    },
    {
        "start": 1405.88,
        "end": 1419.88,
        "text": " In 1977, Debra and Ken Frutio made a big decision. They decided to leave Ohio and move to a small town in Warn County, North Carolina."
    },
    {
        "start": 1419.88,
        "end": 1426.88,
        "text": " I moved here because I was looking for a rural community and a beautiful environment."
    },
    {
        "start": 1426.88,
        "end": 1431.88,
        "text": " I kind of take along. Here I am."
    },
    {
        "start": 1431.88,
        "end": 1435.88,
        "text": " Well, yeah, so I actually don't know how you found them."
    },
    {
        "start": 1435.88,
        "end": 1446.88,
        "text": " So, yeah, so the Frutios, just a little bit of background. They are really part of the core group of folks who found out that a landfill was going to be built nearby."
    },
    {
        "start": 1446.88,
        "end": 1452.88,
        "text": " And they really started organizing just a few people, which blossomed into hundreds of people later on."
    },
    {
        "start": 1452.88,
        "end": 1456.88,
        "text": " So they were hard to find."
    },
    {
        "start": 1456.88,
        "end": 1462.88,
        "text": " They had recently done a podcast of their own about this event in Warn County, about this landfill being built."
    },
    {
        "start": 1462.88,
        "end": 1470.88,
        "text": " So I knew that they were out there doing stuff and I contacted them through their website for the podcast, for the work that they were doing."
    },
    {
        "start": 1470.88,
        "end": 1482.88,
        "text": " And I still didn't hear back. And it was getting to the point where I had researched it enough to know that I couldn't do this story without them, without hearing how it kind of formed at the very beginning."
    },
    {
        "start": 1482.88,
        "end": 1495.88,
        "text": " And I think I reached out to a spouse of their daughter, who was, I think I got the email from like some, I think he was a professor somewhere on the East Coast."
    },
    {
        "start": 1495.88,
        "end": 1503.88,
        "text": " I can't exactly remember where. And he wrote back really quickly and said, I think that they would be really happy to hear from you."
    },
    {
        "start": 1503.88,
        "end": 1517.88,
        "text": " And from there, it just took off. And I guess they weren't checking their emails from the website. And there really wasn't any other contact information that I could find, except for one old email and some public notes from way back when some public record for Deborah."
    },
    {
        "start": 1517.88,
        "end": 1520.88,
        "text": " But yeah, after that, they were very responsive."
    },
    {
        "start": 1520.88,
        "end": 1529.88,
        "text": " It just goes to show like part of the work is also just being persistent. You have to find it. If one email works, you have to find phone number or friend of a friend of a friend."
    },
    {
        "start": 1529.88,
        "end": 1535.88,
        "text": " Totally. I feel like we've been running into that a lot lately, like just trying to track people down, book people, people, yeah."
    },
    {
        "start": 1535.88,
        "end": 1540.88,
        "text": " It gets messy when it gets international. We've been doing a lot of that lately. Yeah."
    },
    {
        "start": 1540.88,
        "end": 1551.88,
        "text": " So on this topic of the guests that were all featured on this episode, they obviously lived through this history. You know, they were part of this one event that kicked off an entire movement, spanning decades now."
    },
    {
        "start": 1551.88,
        "end": 1559.88,
        "text": " And so, you know, oftentimes we're speaking to a historian and they're telling us things that they've been researching for decades and decades."
    },
    {
        "start": 1559.88,
        "end": 1566.88,
        "text": " But it's a different experience talking to someone, you know, that has lived through that moment. They were actually there on the ground."
    },
    {
        "start": 1566.88,
        "end": 1570.88,
        "text": " So what makes it different from our typical kind of interviews that we do?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1570.88,
        "end": 1580.88,
        "text": " Yeah. It's kind of fun, but it's also kind of tricky. For one, you're telling somebody's story. So this is somebody's very personal perspective, things that they went through."
    },
    {
        "start": 1580.88,
        "end": 1589.88,
        "text": " You know, so some of the context, the greater context, the reflective context that we get from some of our more academic guests can be lost."
    },
    {
        "start": 1589.88,
        "end": 1597.88,
        "text": " But what you gain is something very personal. And in this case, like we just needed to know what organizing looked like."
    },
    {
        "start": 1597.88,
        "end": 1614.88,
        "text": " The old-fashioned way, word-mouth, door-to-door, church to church, freeing to friend, causing to cousin, brother to brother, sister to sister, family to family."
    },
    {
        "start": 1616.88,
        "end": 1624.88,
        "text": " But it's also tricky because you got a fact check, right? Like the things that they're saying for the most part. I mean, some things you don't have to fact check like how they're feeling."
    },
    {
        "start": 1624.88,
        "end": 1630.88,
        "text": " But there's a lot that you have to double check and make sure like, did this meeting happen on this day?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1630.88,
        "end": 1635.88,
        "text": " Were these people at this particular meeting who spoke, who they said they heard from?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1635.88,
        "end": 1642.88,
        "text": " And so that's what made this episode a little bit tricky. Like we had great story. We had great, like, facts that they provided."
    },
    {
        "start": 1642.88,
        "end": 1650.88,
        "text": " And one of the things that I really relied on here was the local archives of the local newspapers."
    },
    {
        "start": 1651.88,
        "end": 1662.88,
        "text": " And this is something that I hadn't really done in my career that I really loved for this particular episode because NPR has access to database of old newspaper archives."
    },
    {
        "start": 1662.88,
        "end": 1669.88,
        "text": " And the local Warren County publications were invaluable. They provided so much like play by play."
    },
    {
        "start": 1669.88,
        "end": 1676.88,
        "text": " Not only like dates and things that the governor was saying and things like that, but actually play by play of the residents."
    },
    {
        "start": 1676.88,
        "end": 1681.88,
        "text": " Like this is where local media really thrives and why it's really important."
    },
    {
        "start": 1681.88,
        "end": 1686.88,
        "text": " Like they were kind of the record that I followed for the most part or fact checked against."
    },
    {
        "start": 1686.88,
        "end": 1693.88,
        "text": " And then what else makes it special is the fact that you can hear a lot of different people's perspective about this event."
    },
    {
        "start": 1693.88,
        "end": 1700.88,
        "text": " Often when we're doing stories that are millennia old or centuries old, it's hard to get multiple perspectives."
    },
    {
        "start": 1700.88,
        "end": 1707.88,
        "text": " You know, we might get multiple things that happen to groups of people, but we don't always get that personal touch."
    },
    {
        "start": 1707.88,
        "end": 1717.88,
        "text": " And so with this particular episode, and actually you dealt with a lot of the people's stories because you dealt with the section related to the actual protest that kind of was a convergence of a lot of people."
    },
    {
        "start": 1717.88,
        "end": 1720.88,
        "text": " Yeah. It's just kind of fun. It's cool to have that."
    },
    {
        "start": 1720.88,
        "end": 1729.88,
        "text": " Yeah. I would say just like it was really fun working on the part where it's going through the protests from that morning to the months, years after that."
    },
    {
        "start": 1729.88,
        "end": 1741.88,
        "text": " And for me, I think one of the great joys you're talking about, you know, people's personal experiences, like one of my favorite stories in this episode was the protesters they were putting."
    },
    {
        "start": 1741.88,
        "end": 1745.88,
        "text": " It's not a jail, but they're basically detained and they're hungry."
    },
    {
        "start": 1745.88,
        "end": 1746.88,
        "text": " Yeah."
    },
    {
        "start": 1746.88,
        "end": 1753.88,
        "text": " And basically some women, really kind women across the street, you know, fried up some chicken and start throwing it over the fence."
    },
    {
        "start": 1753.88,
        "end": 1755.88,
        "text": " And it's just such a scene."
    },
    {
        "start": 1755.88,
        "end": 1761.88,
        "text": " So what the ladies did is they got some of these young guys to throw it over the fence."
    },
    {
        "start": 1761.88,
        "end": 1765.88,
        "text": " So we would be in the yard and say, jump me a biscuit."
    },
    {
        "start": 1765.88,
        "end": 1767.88,
        "text": " Kind of have a thigh."
    },
    {
        "start": 1767.88,
        "end": 1769.88,
        "text": " Let me have a breath."
    },
    {
        "start": 1769.88,
        "end": 1772.88,
        "text": " And over the road, no, the fence."
    },
    {
        "start": 1772.88,
        "end": 1776.88,
        "text": " The food would come and we ate it."
    },
    {
        "start": 1776.88,
        "end": 1784.88,
        "text": " And so I'm curious, no, you know, what are some of your favorite stories that some of the guests told that might not have made it onto the episode."
    },
    {
        "start": 1784.88,
        "end": 1804.88,
        "text": " I think that guy who told that story about the chicken being thrown over the fence, a Walter, he also told us that Dolly Burwell, who's one of the main activists who we feature in this episode, that his mom, baby sat for Dolly while she was at protests and organizing and things like that."
    },
    {
        "start": 1804.88,
        "end": 1810.88,
        "text": " And I think that like for me, first off, of course, like everybody knows each other in this area."
    },
    {
        "start": 1810.88,
        "end": 1814.88,
        "text": " But I also like this is such a space in town."
    },
    {
        "start": 1814.88,
        "end": 1820.88,
        "text": " Like people are also helping each other out, throw them chicken over fences or or babysitting and everybody's kind of connected in some way."
    },
    {
        "start": 1820.88,
        "end": 1824.88,
        "text": " So finding those little connections, I think was really fun."
    },
    {
        "start": 1824.88,
        "end": 1826.88,
        "text": " And then like, I mean, this made it in the episode."
    },
    {
        "start": 1826.88,
        "end": 1837.88,
        "text": " But one of my favorite anecdotes was Reverend William Raimi, who's one of the early organizers, who kind of gets called upon to help figure out like how they're going to organize at the beginning."
    },
    {
        "start": 1837.88,
        "end": 1850.88,
        "text": " He kind of goes into this barn at midnight with this small group of people and he's asked to come and he doesn't really know he's a black Reverend in a very white space, white town, meeting white people in the barn at midnight."
    },
    {
        "start": 1850.88,
        "end": 1854.88,
        "text": " And he kind of tells us a story about how he's getting to the barn."
    },
    {
        "start": 1856.88,
        "end": 1863.88,
        "text": " Now, Reverend Raimi, unsurprisingly, didn't like the idea of meeting people who he didn't know in a barn at midnight."
    },
    {
        "start": 1863.88,
        "end": 1866.88,
        "text": " But he was also curious."
    },
    {
        "start": 1866.88,
        "end": 1875.88,
        "text": " And I go into the barn and I look around and there is nobody there that looks like me."
    },
    {
        "start": 1875.88,
        "end": 1880.88,
        "text": " And how there's this old bulb just hanging from the barn ceiling."
    },
    {
        "start": 1880.88,
        "end": 1884.88,
        "text": " I mean, he's very much a storyteller in this sense and like he doesn't know what to expect."
    },
    {
        "start": 1884.88,
        "end": 1890.88,
        "text": " And then he kind of learns like, hey, we need to get our act together how are we going to do this thing."
    },
    {
        "start": 1890.88,
        "end": 1896.88,
        "text": " So those kinds of stories are the other kinds of stories that you get when you talk to the people who actually lived with these experiences."
    },
    {
        "start": 1896.88,
        "end": 1898.88,
        "text": " I kind of wanted to ask you one question."
    },
    {
        "start": 1898.88,
        "end": 1902.88,
        "text": " So you'd produce part three, which was the day of the main protest."
    },
    {
        "start": 1902.88,
        "end": 1906.88,
        "text": " And it's this iconic moment for this event."
    },
    {
        "start": 1906.88,
        "end": 1911.88,
        "text": " It's really what got all the headlines and national press and pictures when you look back on that."
    },
    {
        "start": 1911.88,
        "end": 1917.88,
        "text": " Like that's the time that the media was paying attention was when the protests happened."
    },
    {
        "start": 1917.88,
        "end": 1919.88,
        "text": " So how did you go about producing it?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1919.88,
        "end": 1921.88,
        "text": " Because I know we had some personal stories."
    },
    {
        "start": 1921.88,
        "end": 1923.88,
        "text": " I also know there was some raw video from that time."
    },
    {
        "start": 1923.88,
        "end": 1927.88,
        "text": " So what was that like for you and how did you go about doing it?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1927.88,
        "end": 1929.88,
        "text": " Yeah, I mean that whole section."
    },
    {
        "start": 1929.88,
        "end": 1931.88,
        "text": " I mean, it's just one scene after another, right?"
    },
    {
        "start": 1931.88,
        "end": 1933.88,
        "text": " So it starts very quiet."
    },
    {
        "start": 1933.88,
        "end": 1934.88,
        "text": " It's a morning."
    },
    {
        "start": 1934.88,
        "end": 1935.88,
        "text": " They're all gathered at the church."
    },
    {
        "start": 1935.88,
        "end": 1937.88,
        "text": " They're going to go out and set on this march."
    },
    {
        "start": 1937.88,
        "end": 1943.88,
        "text": " And then quickly escalates to them confronting police or kind of state troopers."
    },
    {
        "start": 1943.88,
        "end": 1945.88,
        "text": " And then another scene follows."
    },
    {
        "start": 1945.88,
        "end": 1949.88,
        "text": " So I just started it as scenes contain scenes."
    },
    {
        "start": 1949.88,
        "end": 1954.88,
        "text": " I mean, for me, just producing it's it's moving to see like this is how an event."
    },
    {
        "start": 1954.88,
        "end": 1959.88,
        "text": " This is how a community rallies together to really fight for a change."
    },
    {
        "start": 1959.88,
        "end": 1960.88,
        "text": " And this is how it's done."
    },
    {
        "start": 1960.88,
        "end": 1969.88,
        "text": " Your bodies have to be that your physical personhood has to be out there on the streets, lying near the ditch where the dump site is."
    },
    {
        "start": 1969.88,
        "end": 1975.88,
        "text": " All these things like it's really just empowering to hear and just it gives you hope."
    },
    {
        "start": 1975.88,
        "end": 1981.88,
        "text": " I'm not a super optimistic person, but just listening to the different, you know, the different guests,"
    },
    {
        "start": 1981.88,
        "end": 1985.88,
        "text": " retelling that day, especially on the day of the protest."
    },
    {
        "start": 1985.88,
        "end": 1993.88,
        "text": " And on the more kind of technical side of the production side, because I have all these different perspectives from the guests,"
    },
    {
        "start": 1993.88,
        "end": 1995.88,
        "text": " I was able to kind of mix them in and weave them together."
    },
    {
        "start": 1995.88,
        "end": 2000.88,
        "text": " So it really feels like they're just, they're all building on each other, telling just one story together."
    },
    {
        "start": 2000.88,
        "end": 2003.88,
        "text": " I'm sure it was there to intimidate us."
    },
    {
        "start": 2003.88,
        "end": 2007.88,
        "text": " And I felt my God, we're going to war here."
    },
    {
        "start": 2007.88,
        "end": 2012.88,
        "text": " The helicopter's flying all over. I just couldn't leave it."
    },
    {
        "start": 2012.88,
        "end": 2020.88,
        "text": " As we approached the landfill, there were power patrolmen in full right gear, facials, baton and hang."
    },
    {
        "start": 2020.88,
        "end": 2023.88,
        "text": " We didn't know whether they were going to beat us or what."
    },
    {
        "start": 2023.88,
        "end": 2031.88,
        "text": " What we were seeing was state highway patrol and and national guard police cars just parked."
    },
    {
        "start": 2031.88,
        "end": 2034.88,
        "text": " And they went way down the road."
    },
    {
        "start": 2034.88,
        "end": 2037.88,
        "text": " We were met by the commander of the highway patrol."
    },
    {
        "start": 2037.88,
        "end": 2042.88,
        "text": " If you do not see this on all the way, you will be arrested."
    },
    {
        "start": 2042.88,
        "end": 2049.88,
        "text": " If we did not turn around and go back, we would be arrested."
    },
    {
        "start": 2049.88,
        "end": 2055.88,
        "text": " I mean, it's definitely one of my favorites episodes to produce on just on that aspect alone, because, like you said,"
    },
    {
        "start": 2055.88,
        "end": 2063.88,
        "text": " we don't get a lot of opportunities to speak to guests who've lived through, you know, a really important moment."
    },
    {
        "start": 2063.88,
        "end": 2070.88,
        "text": " Did you see some of the things that they were describing or the people who they were describing in the news, like in some of the footage too?"
    },
    {
        "start": 2070.88,
        "end": 2073.88,
        "text": " Yeah, yeah. So that was also really cool too."
    },
    {
        "start": 2073.88,
        "end": 2082.88,
        "text": " It was definitely really helpful to watch these old local news for TV news footage, because it was exactly how everyone was describing it."
    },
    {
        "start": 2082.88,
        "end": 2094.88,
        "text": " It's like the one mile or two mile march to the site, confronted with policemen wearing, you know, helmets, batons, people sitting, you know, just civil disobedience."
    },
    {
        "start": 2094.88,
        "end": 2099.88,
        "text": " There was even images of the bus that they would put them and detain them and drive them away."
    },
    {
        "start": 2099.88,
        "end": 2102.88,
        "text": " And so, yeah, that was really great to have access to."
    },
    {
        "start": 2102.88,
        "end": 2111.88,
        "text": " Yeah, that's so interesting, because like so much of history, you know, historians and people, we kind of just fill in some of the gaps."
    },
    {
        "start": 2111.88,
        "end": 2118.88,
        "text": " And in some ways, and when you can actually see the history happening and then also get told it reflectively like,"
    },
    {
        "start": 2118.88,
        "end": 2122.88,
        "text": " years, decades later, it's kind of cool."
    },
    {
        "start": 2122.88,
        "end": 2126.88,
        "text": " Well, it was really great working on this episode with you too."
    },
    {
        "start": 2126.88,
        "end": 2129.88,
        "text": " Thanks so much for chatting. I, but we got to talk about this episode."
    },
    {
        "start": 2129.88,
        "end": 2132.88,
        "text": " Thank you, Lawrence."
    },
    {
        "start": 2133.88,
        "end": 2141.88,
        "text": " Now, you know, a little bit more about how the sauce is made and how rewarding it can be to make an episode like two miles down the road."
    },
    {
        "start": 2141.88,
        "end": 2150.88,
        "text": " And for an episode like this, and really every episode on through line, there are a bunch of drafts and different iterations before it reaches your ears."
    },
    {
        "start": 2150.88,
        "end": 2157.88,
        "text": " And for every good story in an episode, there are at least five more that could have made the cut."
    },
    {
        "start": 2158.88,
        "end": 2165.88,
        "text": " Coming up, how we decide which stories get greenlit and which stories end up on the cutting room floor."
    },
    {
        "start": 2171.88,
        "end": 2176.88,
        "text": " Hi, this is Kamya Marashi from the water, California, listening to through line."
    },
    {
        "start": 2176.88,
        "end": 2180.88,
        "text": " I love your show. I've been listening to it for years. It's informative."
    },
    {
        "start": 2180.88,
        "end": 2185.88,
        "text": " It provides all sorts of interesting facts and information that I would have never known about."
    },
    {
        "start": 2185.88,
        "end": 2191.88,
        "text": " And I really get an appointment listening to it while I'm driving to the ocean to go kayaking."
    },
    {
        "start": 2191.88,
        "end": 2193.88,
        "text": " Thank you so much."
    },
    {
        "start": 2193.88,
        "end": 2195.88,
        "text": " This message comes from IBM."
    },
    {
        "start": 2195.88,
        "end": 2198.88,
        "text": " Your business deploys AI pilots everywhere."
    },
    {
        "start": 2198.88,
        "end": 2204.88,
        "text": " But are they going anywhere or are they stuck in silos, exhausting resources, unable to scale."
    },
    {
        "start": 2204.88,
        "end": 2209.88,
        "text": " Maybe you don't need hundreds of AI pilots. You need a holistic strategy."
    },
    {
        "start": 2209.88,
        "end": 2218.88,
        "text": " IBM has 65,000 consultants with a gym AI experience who can help you design, integrate, and optimize AI solutions."
    },
    {
        "start": 2218.88,
        "end": 2222.88,
        "text": " So you're not just deploying AI. You're scaling it across your business."
    },
    {
        "start": 2222.88,
        "end": 2226.88,
        "text": " Learn more at IBM.com slash consulting."
    },
    {
        "start": 2226.88,
        "end": 2228.88,
        "text": " IBM, let's create."
    },
    {
        "start": 2228.88,
        "end": 2234.88,
        "text": " This message comes from movement. They have great deals this holiday season and the sleekest watches around."
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    },
    {
        "start": 2259.88,
        "end": 2263.88,
        "text": " Part 3. The Better Story"
    },
    {
        "start": 2263.88,
        "end": 2271.88,
        "text": " In this next conversation, we're taking you behind the scenes of our 2023 episode, Mithos and Melodrama in the Philippines."
    },
    {
        "start": 2271.88,
        "end": 2277.88,
        "text": " Looking at the rise, fall, and resurrection of a Filipino political dynasty."
    },
    {
        "start": 2277.88,
        "end": 2289.88,
        "text": " I've got the 21st of this month. I signed recommendation number 1081 placing the entire Philippines under martial law."
    },
    {
        "start": 2290.88,
        "end": 2296.88,
        "text": " Marcus is always to stay in power. The only way he could stay in power was to declare martial law and make himself dictator."
    },
    {
        "start": 2296.88,
        "end": 2299.88,
        "text": " Which is what he did in 1972."
    },
    {
        "start": 2299.88,
        "end": 2311.88,
        "text": " In the episode, we looked at how Ferdinand and Emelda Marcus rewrote and even invented histories to make their authoritarian rule appear preordained and even divine."
    },
    {
        "start": 2311.88,
        "end": 2318.88,
        "text": " It's a technique still being used today by their son, Philippine President, Bong Bong Marcus."
    },
    {
        "start": 2318.88,
        "end": 2323.88,
        "text": " We'll let producers on his sign berg and Christina Kim take it from here."
    },
    {
        "start": 2323.88,
        "end": 2329.88,
        "text": " So today, we're going to take you behind the scenes of an episode that got released back in May 2023."
    },
    {
        "start": 2329.88,
        "end": 2334.88,
        "text": " And I have my fellow producer, Onya Steinberg here to chat with me about it. Hey Onya."
    },
    {
        "start": 2334.88,
        "end": 2337.88,
        "text": " Hey, Christina. So where should we start with this?"
    },
    {
        "start": 2337.88,
        "end": 2343.88,
        "text": " Since this episode was your idea, how about you tell us about where that idea came from?"
    },
    {
        "start": 2343.88,
        "end": 2352.88,
        "text": " Yeah, so this was an episode I actually pitched because right before joining through line, I was the race and equity reporter at KPBS."
    },
    {
        "start": 2352.88,
        "end": 2360.88,
        "text": " And one of the last stories that I was able to work on was actually when Bong Bong Marcus won the presidential election."
    },
    {
        "start": 2360.88,
        "end": 2364.88,
        "text": " It seems like foreign news and I was a local beat reporter in San Diego."
    },
    {
        "start": 2364.88,
        "end": 2367.88,
        "text": " So you wouldn't think that that was a story I was going to cover."
    },
    {
        "start": 2367.88,
        "end": 2375.88,
        "text": " But there's such a huge Filipino diaspora all over the United States, especially in California and in San Diego."
    },
    {
        "start": 2375.88,
        "end": 2383.88,
        "text": " So I had the opportunity to like talk to Filipinos in San Diego about their reactions to this election."
    },
    {
        "start": 2383.88,
        "end": 2385.88,
        "text": " And it was divided."
    },
    {
        "start": 2385.88,
        "end": 2396.88,
        "text": " There was folks who were just like this is appalling so many of my family members were tortured under this regime or you know my family immigrated out of the Philippines in order to like escape the Marcos."
    },
    {
        "start": 2396.88,
        "end": 2405.88,
        "text": " Dynasty. But on the flip side, you know, there was also folks who had very fond memories of Marcos, even though you know he was a dictator for multiple years."
    },
    {
        "start": 2405.88,
        "end": 2416.88,
        "text": " They thought that the country was actually better run under Marcos and they also believe that Bong Bong Marcos should have the opportunity to prove himself that he wasn't just a replica of his father."
    },
    {
        "start": 2416.88,
        "end": 2424.88,
        "text": " So it was divided and the more I talk to people, the more I realize like this is an important story that is truly an American story."
    },
    {
        "start": 2424.88,
        "end": 2428.88,
        "text": " This isn't just foreign news. This impacts people who are living in the United States."
    },
    {
        "start": 2428.88,
        "end": 2441.88,
        "text": " And there's so many lessons we can draw upon about narratives about why people are drawn to certain political figures, what motivates them and kind of the divisions right because just the way the Philippines is divided."
    },
    {
        "start": 2441.88,
        "end": 2446.88,
        "text": " I see those same divisions playing out here in the United States know with our politics."
    },
    {
        "start": 2446.88,
        "end": 2450.88,
        "text": " Right. Right. There's so many parallels between these two stories."
    },
    {
        "start": 2450.88,
        "end": 2458.88,
        "text": " And I feel like one of the things that drew me to it was just this idea of history repeating itself."
    },
    {
        "start": 2458.88,
        "end": 2468.88,
        "text": " Like I remember when we were first talking about this before you pitched it, you said something along the lines of, you know, his father was a dictator and now he's the president."
    },
    {
        "start": 2468.88,
        "end": 2473.88,
        "text": " And this is within like a generation's worth of time. How can that happen?"
    },
    {
        "start": 2473.88,
        "end": 2477.88,
        "text": " And that question itself is just a fascinating story to work from."
    },
    {
        "start": 2477.88,
        "end": 2482.88,
        "text": " That's right. So I was lead producing this, but we were in the trenches together from like day one."
    },
    {
        "start": 2482.88,
        "end": 2493.88,
        "text": " And I know in the beginning, like we together pretty much learned the entire history of the Philippines at some point, like precolonial and we were trying to whittle down the story."
    },
    {
        "start": 2493.88,
        "end": 2506.88,
        "text": " And we did decide to focus exclusively on the Marcos. So you know, something that we talk about in the episode is that the Marcos is come to power in large part because they are excellent myth makers."
    },
    {
        "start": 2506.88,
        "end": 2518.88,
        "text": " They are so good at controlling the narrative and creating a compelling story, you know, about their rags to riches, ascension, about them not being elites and thus more relatable."
    },
    {
        "start": 2518.88,
        "end": 2523.88,
        "text": " And then as we hear onward, like to more grandiose myth making."
    },
    {
        "start": 2523.88,
        "end": 2531.88,
        "text": " Fernand and Amelda campaigned with pizzazz. Fernand gave rousing speeches."
    },
    {
        "start": 2531.88,
        "end": 2534.88,
        "text": " There are still a thousand rivers to be crossed."
    },
    {
        "start": 2534.88,
        "end": 2537.88,
        "text": " Amelda serenaded crowds with love songs."
    },
    {
        "start": 2537.88,
        "end": 2543.88,
        "text": " And they even had emotion picture made."
    },
    {
        "start": 2543.88,
        "end": 2555.88,
        "text": " So what we did with this episode and what I know we did together so well is tell it in a quote unquote melodramatic fashion and this kind of larger than life way."
    },
    {
        "start": 2555.88,
        "end": 2563.88,
        "text": " And we were really, really focused on finding those stories. And as a result, we found too many stories."
    },
    {
        "start": 2563.88,
        "end": 2569.88,
        "text": " And we like to start all of our episodes with what we call a cold open."
    },
    {
        "start": 2569.88,
        "end": 2572.88,
        "text": " And that was the part that was assigned to you on yet."
    },
    {
        "start": 2572.88,
        "end": 2581.88,
        "text": " And what we do with cold opens as we we want to intrigue you. We want to give you like a really good little story, a little entree in before we kind of tell you what the"
    },
    {
        "start": 2581.88,
        "end": 2586.88,
        "text": " episode is about. And then we continue in with our parts one, two, and three."
    },
    {
        "start": 2586.88,
        "end": 2593.88,
        "text": " But on you, you were given the cold open for this one. And what happened?"
    },
    {
        "start": 2593.88,
        "end": 2607.88,
        "text": " What happened? It was a daunting task. I actually wrote and produced a very different cold open than what finally aired as part of the episode."
    },
    {
        "start": 2607.88,
        "end": 2613.88,
        "text": " It happened around 1971."
    },
    {
        "start": 2613.88,
        "end": 2617.88,
        "text": " In South Dakota, but in the island of Mindanao."
    },
    {
        "start": 2617.88,
        "end": 2626.88,
        "text": " Mindanao is part of the Philippines. On Mindanao, the lush, emerald green jungle butts right up against white sand beaches."
    },
    {
        "start": 2626.88,
        "end": 2634.88,
        "text": " Back in 1971, deep in the rainforest and high in the mountains hit a secret."
    },
    {
        "start": 2634.88,
        "end": 2644.88,
        "text": " A group of about 24 individuals were found. And this was the discovery of a so-called Stone Age cave dwelling people."
    },
    {
        "start": 2648.88,
        "end": 2657.88,
        "text": " They are going to see Momo Daca de Wata Tassadi, the bringer of good fortune to the Tassadi."
    },
    {
        "start": 2657.88,
        "end": 2661.88,
        "text": " That is their name for Manda de la Zalde."
    },
    {
        "start": 2661.88,
        "end": 2668.88,
        "text": " According to most accounts, Manuel Elisalde stumbled upon these people."
    },
    {
        "start": 2668.88,
        "end": 2676.88,
        "text": " At the time, Manuel Elisalde was serving in the Philippine government under President Ferdinand Marcos as a member of his cabinet."
    },
    {
        "start": 2676.88,
        "end": 2686.88,
        "text": " He got tipped off by a local who had sort of mentioned some interaction with this community that had lived kind of further in the inland."
    },
    {
        "start": 2686.88,
        "end": 2690.88,
        "text": " You know, these folks had never had contact with modern civilization."
    },
    {
        "start": 2690.88,
        "end": 2696.88,
        "text": " They didn't have the same dietary practices or agricultural practices. They were in fact foragers."
    },
    {
        "start": 2696.88,
        "end": 2705.88,
        "text": " Other tools were incredibly rudimentary. So what they were found with was suggestive of them being so far back in time."
    },
    {
        "start": 2705.88,
        "end": 2716.88,
        "text": " It's such a profound and almost ambitious way to describe a people. And it was feeding this idea and frenzy that people wanted to believe."
    },
    {
        "start": 2720.88,
        "end": 2727.88,
        "text": " On the island of Manda now, a last frontier of the Philippines, a forgotten people engage in man's oldest struggle."
    },
    {
        "start": 2727.88,
        "end": 2732.88,
        "text": " They are fighting for the right to exist. They are fighting for their lives."
    },
    {
        "start": 2732.88,
        "end": 2734.88,
        "text": " People were drunk on the Tassadi."
    },
    {
        "start": 2736.88,
        "end": 2740.88,
        "text": " Huge international attention flooded in surrounding the Tassadi."
    },
    {
        "start": 2740.88,
        "end": 2744.88,
        "text": " My name is Kathleen Cruz Gutierrez."
    },
    {
        "start": 2744.88,
        "end": 2750.88,
        "text": " I'm an assistant professor of history at the University of California, Santa Cruz."
    },
    {
        "start": 2750.88,
        "end": 2754.88,
        "text": " International reporters were interested in the discovery."
    },
    {
        "start": 2754.88,
        "end": 2766.88,
        "text": " And so this kind of fantastic event was this anthropological phenomenon for intellectuals, for the political community, for random citizens who would just sort of see that this was quite the marvel to perceive."
    },
    {
        "start": 2766.88,
        "end": 2774.88,
        "text": " The Tassadi had lived apart from civilization for so long that this level of attention was dizzying, maybe even harmful."
    },
    {
        "start": 2774.88,
        "end": 2783.88,
        "text": " To a point where Ellie Saladay and the Philippine government started to wonder if this golden age of research had to come to a close, for the Tassadi's own good."
    },
    {
        "start": 2783.88,
        "end": 2790.88,
        "text": " So in a few years, the Marcos administration would actually call off all visits and say no one was allowed anymore into this place."
    },
    {
        "start": 2790.88,
        "end": 2800.88,
        "text": " And so Ellie Saladay created this reservation that reportedly kept the Tassadi safe from any further scrutiny, investigation or research visits."
    },
    {
        "start": 2800.88,
        "end": 2814.88,
        "text": " And there the Tassadi would stay, cordoned off from the rest of the world, free to live as they always had until 1986, a journalist accompanied by a Filipino researcher,"
    },
    {
        "start": 2814.88,
        "end": 2830.88,
        "text": " actually entered into the reservation only to discover that these 24 cave-dwelling people were in fact not as a stone age, but were like we paid by Ellie Saladay and his team to act as though they were from the stone age."
    },
    {
        "start": 2832.88,
        "end": 2840.88,
        "text": " And all of the pieces started coming together that what was in fact perhaps perceived at first as this anthropological phenomenon was really a hoax."
    },
    {
        "start": 2840.88,
        "end": 2850.88,
        "text": " Within the blurry story of the Tassadi, one thing is clear. The Tassadi had a purpose. They were fabricated for a reason."
    },
    {
        "start": 2850.88,
        "end": 2858.88,
        "text": " I mean, one has to really see it in this larger trajectory that the Marcos' were really creating for themselves."
    },
    {
        "start": 2858.88,
        "end": 2866.88,
        "text": " This narrative arc that would be essentially tied back to the stone age and brought up to 1971 with them."
    },
    {
        "start": 2866.88,
        "end": 2883.88,
        "text": " To have a people that are coming out of the shadows of hundreds of years of colonization, the ravages of World War II, into this new decolonized experiment only to discover perhaps the most untainted, peaceful people."
    },
    {
        "start": 2883.88,
        "end": 2892.88,
        "text": " I think that really creates this romantic notion of the Philippines at the time that Marcos and Imelda for sure are able to capitalize upon."
    },
    {
        "start": 2892.88,
        "end": 2900.88,
        "text": " For me, as a historian looking back would say actually this was a great ruse, but it was a wonderful distraction."
    },
    {
        "start": 2903.88,
        "end": 2914.88,
        "text": " Okay, so if you listen to the episode, we all know this is not how the episode started. We actually did decide to begin with the Filipino Folk Tale of Malacca Simaganda, which I mentioned."
    },
    {
        "start": 2914.88,
        "end": 2918.88,
        "text": " Did those are the kind of adamant eve of Filipino folklore?"
    },
    {
        "start": 2918.88,
        "end": 2932.88,
        "text": " The sky told the tired bird to build its nest on one of these islands. Once on land, the bird was struck by a bamboo stock that was blowing in the breeze, annoyed, it pecked at the bamboo."
    },
    {
        "start": 2933.88,
        "end": 2935.88,
        "text": " And then the bamboo split."
    },
    {
        "start": 2935.88,
        "end": 2939.88,
        "text": " The first fellow people emerged from these bamboo stocks."
    },
    {
        "start": 2939.88,
        "end": 2942.88,
        "text": " The first man, Malacca, which means strength."
    },
    {
        "start": 2942.88,
        "end": 2944.88,
        "text": " And the first woman."
    },
    {
        "start": 2944.88,
        "end": 2946.88,
        "text": " Magandar, who was beautiful."
    },
    {
        "start": 2946.88,
        "end": 2948.88,
        "text": " And that's how the world began."
    },
    {
        "start": 2948.88,
        "end": 2955.88,
        "text": " And in the end, we did decide to do that because that's who Marcos and Imelda Marcos, his first lady, modeled themselves after."
    },
    {
        "start": 2955.88,
        "end": 2959.88,
        "text": " So it was just kind of a more clear through line, if you will."
    },
    {
        "start": 2959.88,
        "end": 2963.88,
        "text": " But we really love the story of the Tassadi."
    },
    {
        "start": 2963.88,
        "end": 2969.88,
        "text": " So we did try to make it work. So thank you, Anya. But Anya, you know, you sound designed this and you made it."
    },
    {
        "start": 2969.88,
        "end": 2975.88,
        "text": " So can you tell us a little bit about what you were thinking and what this story was?"
    },
    {
        "start": 2975.88,
        "end": 2982.88,
        "text": " Among the team, I think cold opens are the most notoriously difficult to produce."
    },
    {
        "start": 2982.88,
        "end": 2985.88,
        "text": " I think we could all agree on that."
    },
    {
        "start": 2985.88,
        "end": 2988.88,
        "text": " I agree. They're the most changed every time."
    },
    {
        "start": 2988.88,
        "end": 2997.88,
        "text": " They have a lot of work to do. And especially for an episode like this, there was a lot of things that I was holding in my head going into the script."
    },
    {
        "start": 2997.88,
        "end": 3001.88,
        "text": " That I was like, oh my gosh, this is overwhelming."
    },
    {
        "start": 3001.88,
        "end": 3005.88,
        "text": " Like number one, we have to tell the listeners that we're going to the Philippines."
    },
    {
        "start": 3005.88,
        "end": 3008.88,
        "text": " And some listeners might have never heard of the Philippines."
    },
    {
        "start": 3008.88,
        "end": 3012.88,
        "text": " So we have to tell them a little bit about what that place is like."
    },
    {
        "start": 3012.88,
        "end": 3014.88,
        "text": " What are the people like that live there?"
    },
    {
        "start": 3014.88,
        "end": 3022.88,
        "text": " When did it become the Philippines? Just like any sort of background that seems like necessary for setting up where we're going."
    },
    {
        "start": 3022.88,
        "end": 3030.88,
        "text": " And then we're trying to introduce these larger themes that we're going to kind of unspool and unravel throughout the episode of like,"
    },
    {
        "start": 3030.88,
        "end": 3032.88,
        "text": " myth building and melodrama."
    },
    {
        "start": 3032.88,
        "end": 3043.88,
        "text": " We have to introduce the family, the Marcoses and talk a little bit about what was going on at the time, but not too much because we don't want to spoil what's going to come next."
    },
    {
        "start": 3044.88,
        "end": 3054.88,
        "text": " And so when I sat down to make it, I think a place where I start a lot with cold opens is like, how am I going to take people to this scene? How am I going to build a story?"
    },
    {
        "start": 3054.88,
        "end": 3059.88,
        "text": " Because you want to suck the listener right in. You want to have sound design. You want to have music."
    },
    {
        "start": 3059.88,
        "end": 3071.88,
        "text": " You want to have archival. And so I immediately went to YouTube and I was just watching all these documentaries of when in the 1970s, they found discovered, quote unquote, the Tassadai."
    },
    {
        "start": 3071.88,
        "end": 3084.88,
        "text": " And these were like fascinating movies. I probably watched hours and hours of them because it's just all these people flying over the jungle, discovering these mythical supposedly untouched by civilization,"
    },
    {
        "start": 3084.88,
        "end": 3094.88,
        "text": " group of people. And so is an interesting historical moment to look back on and realize that this documentary is essentially fake, but nobody knew it when they were making it."
    },
    {
        "start": 3094.88,
        "end": 3106.88,
        "text": " I remember like going and watching some of those videos with you and some of these documentaries. I mean, this wasn't just Filipino documentary makers. This was the entire world, like national geographic was there."
    },
    {
        "start": 3106.88,
        "end": 3121.88,
        "text": " US newsmakers were there. And the tone and the way in which they talk about these people was already very telling the fact that there's this like primitive people that had been untouched by western society or the modern world."
    },
    {
        "start": 3121.88,
        "end": 3130.88,
        "text": " There was a real colonial gaze to the way that these documentaries you were looking at were even talking about these people, which I know added an additional layer to you, right?"
    },
    {
        "start": 3130.88,
        "end": 3143.88,
        "text": " That's like an additional layer to a story is like from whose perspective do we hear about these people? And what does that tell us about power and how do we contextualize that in the story? So there was a lot going on in this whole thing."
    },
    {
        "start": 3143.88,
        "end": 3154.88,
        "text": " And I wanted to start the open in a way that you didn't know where was going to end up. I didn't want to say, you know, there was this made up group of people who lived in the jungle in the Philippines. It was a lie."
    },
    {
        "start": 3154.88,
        "end": 3166.88,
        "text": " Like when the cold open starts, I'm basically framing it so that you think you're also tricked. You think that this is a real life discovery that happened in the 70s of these."
    },
    {
        "start": 3166.88,
        "end": 3182.88,
        "text": " I think Kathleen Gutierrez says so called Stone Age cave dwelling people like you're there. And then as you discover that it's all a lie, like I built it in a way so that you're discovering it while I'm discovering it at the same time."
    },
    {
        "start": 3182.88,
        "end": 3195.88,
        "text": " You know, we had discussions about this early on. That's interesting because what we were trying to say and again, it was too complicated for a cold open was even a lie can have real life consequences."
    },
    {
        "start": 3195.88,
        "end": 3211.88,
        "text": " A lie has a life of its own and the life that it leads is real. And there was so much nuance there that I know we both loved, but even though it didn't work for the episode, it still really works for I think the story we were trying to tell and you did such an amazing job at it."
    },
    {
        "start": 3211.88,
        "end": 3220.88,
        "text": " It was such a pleasure to work on this episode with you and really fun to look back on it. Thanks so much for chatting. Thanks, Anya."
    },
    {
        "start": 3220.88,
        "end": 3227.88,
        "text": " Now every time you listen to a new through line episode, you can wonder how many other actual cold opens were there."
    },
    {
        "start": 3227.88,
        "end": 3236.88,
        "text": " And the answer is a lot, but I promise you the one you're getting in the episode is always the best possible one."
    },
    {
        "start": 3236.88,
        "end": 3248.88,
        "text": " That was our final behind the scenes conversation for this episode, but it doesn't have to end for you. If you want more behind the scenes conversation and how we think through episodes and topic ideas and just so much more,"
    },
    {
        "start": 3248.88,
        "end": 3258.88,
        "text": " you can sign up for through line plus, which also helps support our work here. You can find out more at plus.npr.org slash through line."
    },
    {
        "start": 3258.88,
        "end": 3268.88,
        "text": " And a quick note to listeners, Reverend Willie T. Raimi, who you heard from in our environmental justice episode actually passed away in June 2024."
    },
    {
        "start": 3268.88,
        "end": 3273.88,
        "text": " That's it for this week's show. I'm Ronda Belfetta."
    },
    {
        "start": 3273.88,
        "end": 3278.88,
        "text": " I'm Ronda Tina Arabli and you've been listening to through line from NPR."
    },
    {
        "start": 3278.88,
        "end": 3283.88,
        "text": " This episode was produced by me and me and Lauren Swoo. Julie Kay."
    },
    {
        "start": 3283.88,
        "end": 3291.88,
        "text": " Anya Steinberg, Casey Meiner, Cristina Kim, Devon Kadiama, Sarah Wyman, Irene Noguchi."
    },
    {
        "start": 3291.88,
        "end": 3300.88,
        "text": " Thank you to Johannes Dergi, Nina Puchalski, Punit Matiwala, Edith Chapin and Colin Campbell."
    },
    {
        "start": 3300.88,
        "end": 3303.88,
        "text": " Voice over work in this episode was done by Lauren Swoo."
    },
    {
        "start": 3303.88,
        "end": 3306.88,
        "text": " Fact-tracking for this episode was done by Kevin Vogel."
    },
    {
        "start": 3306.88,
        "end": 3310.88,
        "text": " The episode was mixed by Josephine Nunei."
    },
    {
        "start": 3310.88,
        "end": 3315.88,
        "text": " Music for this episode was composed by Ramteen and his band Drop Electric, which includes..."
    },
    {
        "start": 3315.88,
        "end": 3318.88,
        "text": " Navid Marvy. Show Fujiwara."
    },
    {
        "start": 3318.88,
        "end": 3320.88,
        "text": " Anya Mizani."
    },
    {
        "start": 3320.88,
        "end": 3328.88,
        "text": " And finally, if you have an idea or like something you heard on the show, write us at throughline.npr.org."
    },
    {
        "start": 3328.88,
        "end": 3331.88,
        "text": " Thanks for listening."
    },
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        "start": 3334.88,
        "end": 3337.88,
        "text": " Support for this podcast and the following message come from Ford."
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    {
        "start": 3337.88,
        "end": 3342.88,
        "text": " Senior Director Becca Anderson shares the meaning of the Ford Power Promise."
    },
    {
        "start": 3342.88,
        "end": 3348.88,
        "text": " Ford's been around for 120 years and we continue to evolve with our customers."
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        "start": 3348.88,
        "end": 3351.88,
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        "start": 3351.88,
        "end": 3356.88,
        "text": " And for electric vehicles, the Ford Power Promise is just the next step in that journey."
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    {
        "start": 3357.88,
        "end": 3365.88,
        "text": " And the Ford Power Promise is designed to inspire confidence for electric vehicle owners from day one."
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    {
        "start": 3365.88,
        "end": 3374.88,
        "text": " And that's confidence around charging at home, charging on the road, confidence in their battery with the eight year or 100,000 mile warranty,"
    },
    {
        "start": 3374.88,
        "end": 3381.88,
        "text": " and confidence that they have access to electric vehicle expertise when they have questions along the way."
    },
    {
        "start": 3381.88,
        "end": 3386.88,
        "text": " Learn how Ford is supporting EV drivers go to FordPowerPromise.com or your local Ford dealer."
    },
    {
        "start": 3386.88,
        "end": 3391.88,
        "text": " See dealer and the battery electric vehicle warranty guide for limited warranty details."
    },
    {
        "start": 3391.88,
        "end": 3393.88,
        "text": " This message comes from Wondery."
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        "start": 3393.88,
        "end": 3400.88,
        "text": " Kill List is a true story of how one journalist ended up in a race against time to warrant those on the list whose lives were in danger."
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        "start": 3400.88,
        "end": 3403.88,
        "text": " Follow Kill List wherever you get your podcasts."
    }
]